actual epistemology

[archytas]

Those who know me know I can't be arsed crossing 'ts' on the bums of
angels counted on pin heads. There is a subject 'epistemology' though
Richard Rorty once said it arose because of a mistake in Locke. The
most sense I've made of it is that we generally favour evidence ahead
of theory, and history shows us the evidence was there before our
theory. Relativity is a good example and my view of this is empirical
- Einstein valued both Maxwell's theorizing and the work of good
experimenters. He made sense of both instead of taking sides. His
kinematics could underpin what seemed contradictions.,

Does anyone remember Pyrroh? Given that argument leads in many
directions we need a 'state of mind' to appreciate what is likely to
be the best? Or was it Phyrro - fuck the spelling.

We probably have to write the term "evidence" like this - we know it
turns in theoretical assumptions. But isn't time involved in this?
And that point when we can manipulate what we'd been imagining?
John Reed and Socratus can write almost impeccable argument at times -
Carlos can really make me think both that I don't get it AND there is
nothing to get - Sam brings back sanity with a video of scientists
being crude (should have been at some of our old UMIST parties Sam).
The subject is about how the fuck we know, what the fuck we know which
leads to the problem of the criterion of whether the fuck we knew what
or how first (Sextus Empiricus). We could give up there if we didn't
know about evolution. We know from that that hen and egg problems are
surmountable.

Most of us know religion is bullshit control - but so did Plato. The
world has no lack of lackwits to believe its credulous tales. Time is
on clocks for most of them. My epistemological question is this -
what do we know about knowing they don't? What is our procedural
epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so
lackwits?

[Lonnie Clay]

Hmmm...

I don't know if what I know is no news to those in the know, but I'll allow you to lead me by the nose and take a stab at your question.

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

Like a fish in water or a flying insect beating its wings in air, most people are unaware of the mental processes which churn within their minds. They have been programmed by parents and society to respond in certain ways to cues and go through life asleep at the wheel. In "Citizen of the Galaxy" by Robert A. Heinlein, a fictional character named Samuel Renshaw developed a technique for awakening people to a consciousness attained by the few and scorned by the many. When I read that book as a child, I was intrigued by the notions presented therein and resolved to awaken in the same manner as Baslim's "son" Thorby was awakened.

As time passed by, I found a state of heightened mental awareness to be a burden rather than a benefit, due to the harsh responses of others whenever I revealed insights which they had overlooked. Eventually I learned the value of the old adage "Silence is golden." Just to amuse myself, I have opened up from that sullen withdrawal in recent months, resulting in my being kill-filed on the internet by most people. Nevertheless I persevere, convinced that future data miners will be able to glean useful tidbits and morsels from my posts.

In order to properly KNOW something, you need to be aware of your own self-censoring processes which prune the chains of association engendered by the context in which the datum is observed. Way back in school days, I was a meticulous noter of details in my laboratory notes, to the annoyance of grading persons. I was often criticized for giving what they regarded as extraneous details, and for doing lab preparations in electronics classes which were filled with voluminous and excruciatingly detailed derivations of circuit equations, so that I could at the time of the lab simply plug in the measured actual values (versus nominal) of components to verify that my circuits performed according to theory to two plus decimal places rather than one or two. Such derivations of performance based upon deviation of components from nominal values were NOT appreciated. In other words, my lack of discretion and self censuring resulted in censure by observers of my behavior.

The lesson to be learned is that if you DO attain a heightened awareness, then outside of intimates and trusted acquaintances, let no hint of your capabilities escape to the public. I disregard my own advice due to a profound dissatisfaction with the way that I am currently treated by society. I am scorned and powerless, living on a disability pension provided by the government due to my being (in their esteemed judgement) "insane". This label was attached to me within days of my posts in 1997 accusing the government of performing a manipulation of the stock market in late Oct 1997 by providing funds to market manipulators so that the market crashed down 500 points in a single day. As records show if you delve into the matter, the FED does PRECISELY such manipulations of the market on a regular basis. Such manipulation is currently called "Quantitative Easing" for ratcheting the market UPWARDS. They will of course decline to comment upon their actions which caused the market to crash from Oct 2007 until my birthday in 2009...

more to come in next post.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

Now that most of the lurkers have gone away due to their disgust at being lectured by an insane person, I'll get back to the question :

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

1) Before you do ANYTHING else, exercise your sense of caution and your ability to detect warning signs from others. If you fail to complete this step properly, then you WILL find yourself either in jail or an insane asylum, or worse yet in a hospital or dead. Due to a peculiarity of American law, I chose the label of insane so that I would always in a court of law be found "not guilty due to insanity."

2) Now exercise your senses of humor, deception, and egotism. Strongly RESIST your impulse to "tell it like it is" and "set the record straight". Both of those just lead to trouble. "Keep it to yourself" because "loose lips sink ships". While you are at it, completely sever the ingrained conditioning which you received as a child which reveals your thoughts through body language. You will be needing a dead-pan or false expression a great deal in the future, otherwise your PAN will be dead and piping no more. Keep your ego under control. Adopt a supercilious inner self who says "Who cares WHAT you think! I know better!" Boost your ego by keeping silent regarding the myriad flaws of those around you, scoring points for observations, and giving yourself extra credit for not trying to run roughshod over dimwits. Learn to laugh at yourself as well as others, for being so afraid that you keep thoughts pinioned like a rat in a steel trap.

Congratulations! You are now (if instructions were followed) certified Paranoid! Possibly with a bonus of Megalomaniac...

time to post again...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

3) Develop the facility of multitrack thinking. You KNOW that it definitely exists because of expressions such as "I got sidetracked" and "You interrupted my train of thought." Without a priority interrupt facility, your mind would always run steady on course until it petered out for lack of inspiration. Make "intuitive leaps", "jump to conclusions", have "second thoughts", and don't let things get you to the point of saying "It boggled my mind." Whet your appetite for thinking about WHY you thought something. "Examine your assumptions", "Get the facts straight", "Get organized", "Be Clear", and "Get all your ducks in a row." When you have done those, then "pinpoint your objectives", "work on your priorities", "be goal oriented", and do things on each track "one step at a time." Reinforce your mental discipline with "stay focused", "pay attention to details", "don't overlook the simple things", and of course "Don't be a nit-picker", because then you could "get lost in the details" and "fail to see the forest for the trees." The top track of your mind should be busy pursuing the task at hand. Next down should be prioritization. Then comes keeping track of the situation. Then comes filing away things for later so that you do not "forget all that stuff." I decline to reveal how many layers I have, but it is a hell of a lot more than four. Work on elaboration of your mental processes regarding resource allocation to your tracks to avoid becoming "easily distracted and confused."

Congratulations! If you followed step 3 successfully, you now suffer from "multiple personality disorder"!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

4) Hone your memory and deceive yourself. If you remember everything without discrimination, then you will become overwhelmed quickly. Learn to prioritize your memory data structures, pulling first the essence, then the extract, then the summary, then the notes, then the details, then the whole frigging compendium if necessary to glean the utmost meaning for a referenced topic. If you are intellectually superior, then you will find that you have many "unwanted thoughts", "doubts", "misgivings", and "strange notions." Learn how to hide these from yourself using a context oriented keying system. To give a simple example, you don't "allow yourself to think" the same thoughts in church or a court of law that you would think while in bed with a prostitute or someone else's spouse EH? RIIGGGHHHHTTTTT! Focus upon those mental tricks until you attain satisfaction.

Before proceeding to step 5, repeat steps 1-4 until no further progress is forthcoming.

Congratulations! Your are now self-decieved, possibly an incorrigible pathological liar, a scheming, deceptive person, maybe even a *MISANTHROPE*. If you qualify, then you may permit yourself to visualize the broad yellow stripe which stains your back, you *COWARD*! LOLOL LOLOL LOLOL

"A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero dies but one." Right, and who gets to laugh and pi$$ on the other's grave EH? EH? EH? EHHHHH?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

p.s. Bonhomie aside, I have nothing of any particular value to lose, since I am "mostly harmless" and negligible, hence my frankness.

[Lonnie Clay]

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

At the age of 11, I began to work on step 5), but I never completely stopped cycling through steps 1-4)...

5) Work on clarity of thought and expression. Your thoughts are based upon your vocabulary and understanding of dictionary meanings which allow you to understand (mostly) what others intended you to think through their choice of words. Study sentence structure and parsing. Practice discourse, attempt rhetoric, and avoid arguments since they are a sure sign that you are letting your ego misguide you away from caution. Be a wimp! I failed to follow the path of the hopeless coward, and paid heavily for my error. So "clarity" includes convincingly pretending that you think something entirely different from your actual thoughts. Tailor your expressiveness to conform to the requirements of a situation. Avoid the impulse to be popular, be DULL and uninteresting, beneath notice! Notice the behavior of others around you, the braggarts, the shy ones, the popular and the despised. Don't stand out! The one exception is for the standardized tests required for entrance to institutions of higher learning, and major tests. Be a curve breaker! Make them all wonder how in HELL you are cheating so much that your score is the top of the class!

6) Learn logical reasoning, especially the difference between necessary and sufficient. Engrave the precept of "Occam's Razor" upon your chest (metaphorically, not as a tattoo) and follow it faithfully but not obsessively. Keep an eye out for others who reason logically for they are your natural enemies or allies. The run of the mill who can't tell the difference between inclusion and exclusion in a set are of no concern. Recall steps 1-5 and gain experience at incoherence and confusion when appropriate...

Congratulations! You are now qualified to be labeled as "That queer duck who acts like Spock."

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

"My epistemological question is this - what do we know about knowing they don't?  What is our procedural epistemology - if we don't have one, are we just smug not-quite so lackwits?"

7) I never read a discourse on the topic of life roles such as given below until 2007. However, I learned quite a bit from the examples of adults around me regarding who was content and who was happy. I concluded that those who struggle to the top find emptiness around themselves and are doomed to be toppled from their perches, causing a loss of self esteem if nothing else. They are bound to wonder "What was the point of all that effort, doesn't seem worth it now." Choose your life role carefully, and don't be afraid to mix roles or change the mix at any time. Learn everything relevant for fulfilling your life goal, and have fun along the way through life.

http://home.earthlink.net/~grharmon/master_game.html

moloch/ cock in dunghill/ hog in trough/ no game/ householder game/ art game/ science game/ religion game/ master game

At the age of twelve I wanted to be a chemist or physicist. By the time I got to college, I was a bit more savvy regarding the dangers of chemistry. During college years I shrugged off the notion of being another Einstein and settled upon Software Engineering. I worked eleven years after college before getting entirely out of the rat race. It took seven years after I lost all ambition to completely swallow my pride and get declared insane. Now after thirteen years of insanity, with ten years to go before age 65, I want back into the labor force, because for Social Security purposes the last seven years determine how much money you get. I am motivated! I am ambitious! I MIGHT even be sane, despite the evidence of the past thirteen years...

That's all I am going to write except for replying to questions from somebody else. I have hogged this thread enough at three hours elapsed!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[archytas]

With not much time Lonnie, I'll have to say I agree a lot. I'm not
sure we can get at knowledge without 'autobiography' and awareness of
interests. I had trouble explaining shops shut on Sunday to my 13
year old grandson the other day. His mate claimed he could get some
toy he'd saved up for cheaper in a shop near a town centre
supermarket. In fact there was no such shop, but I ended-up taking
them to prove this and that shops don't open on Sundays. The supposed
shop was a closed shoe shop. Quite how far this empirical
demonstration got into their networked world view remains unsure.
I like Bacon's Idols as a start to much you've put above - but I defy
anyone to find them amidst the vast tracts he produced. I think it's
a mistake to take the I am thinking therefore I am route, but agree
bulldung needs clearing.

[nominal9]

Hi Archytas... allow me to change the subject just to ask a "social"
question....Where, Georges Metanomski?.... is he okay?.... I had some
disagreements with the codger.... but I'm still a bit fond of the
"coot"....

[archytas]

hi nom - much the same feelings here - I've been travelling a lot and
returned to his absence.

[archytas]

The context of assessment is the context in which we assess the speech
act. According to the theory, a statement S is true as used in the
context C and assessed in the context C′, if and only if S is true at
m for every chronicle c passing through m and m′, where m and m′ are
moments within the contexts C and C′ with m ≤ m′. This means that a
statement like “it will be sunny tomorrow” is true as uttered
yesterday and assessed from today, given that it is in fact sunny
today. But it will not be true assessed from yesterday, given that it
was not settled yesterday that today would be sunny.
Sort of reminded me of Georges.

[nominal9]

I asked because I thought you may have personal contact with him....
hope all's well... still... he must be getting on in years.
Talk to you on some topic... but I think you and I have plumbed each
others' views fairly well... not much disagreement from my side, but I
still rankle when you call yourself a "realist"......I can't argue
with your very evidently superior knowledge in most or all practical
and theoretic scientific matters though.....sometimes I think you
insist on calling yourself a "realist" just to spite me....HAR....

[Serenity Smiles]

Ok Einstein did a deal with Sir Martin Robespeare author of Jobs Joys and
Jaunts, Age Aprtitude and Ability, (the n was not listed) I was born in the
attic of Sir Martin Robespeare. In the ministry of food WWII and was an
experiment never christened to see if I could achieve realisation of
Einstein in my life. Although he was an illuminatim he favoured Buddhism as
the theology and science of the future and I have taken up the challenge
despite every fascist beating ever that could have been put upon me. My
parents were and one still is sadistic. Which caused me to runaway and
because of this my father was malicious. Whether my daughters father was a
political set up I do not kmow. But she got damaged with me at birth and I
have been trying to prove myself ever since. That is the truth and yes, all
my practices and phenomenons are genuine. No cheating just rats chasing me.
I stick by my ethics and will carry on until I get at least a fair hearing.

Love and prayers to you all.

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[Serenity Smiles]

Also Walker was influential in the fact that he was honest in providng me
the correct information and the knowledge of the path to follow -
Mahayanin - the opposite is my daughter's father who never supported and
evaded and was the biggest player I have ever known.

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 4:38 PM
To: Epistemology
Subject: [epistemology 12123] Re: actual epistemology

--

[nominal9]

You appear to be an ethically "good" and intellectually "sound"
person, to me... Serenity ....I see the problem being that you and I
have different frames of reference in terms of knowledge and
experience.... maybe if "we" tried to talk "simply"... or in a way to
actually speak of the ideas and things under discussion... not "by
substitution".... to other people, as in writers.... or if reference
to writers makes the point.... then explain what the writer said and
what you think it means.... some around here know a lot of "heavy"
writers, for example.....and others around here know a lot of very
specified technical or "professional" knowledge....
Walker?..... who is he or she?
Mahayanin?..... specifically what did these others say that you find
useful to you and you want to corroborate and pass on to the rest of
us?

On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gentle.esse...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

[archytas]

I remain a tropical fish realist Nom - for real. The real world fucks
me over, so I give precedence to it, even if unsure what it is (4d -
2t etc.). I don't know Georges personally at all - but an invented
version of him appears in one of the novels I'm completing.

[nominal9]

[nominal9]

6) Learn logical reasoning, especially the difference between
necessary and
sufficient. Engrave the precept of "Occam's Razor" upon your chest
(metaphorically, not as a tattoo) and follow it faithfully but not
obsessively. Keep an eye out for others who reason logically for they
are
your natural enemies or allies. The run of the mill who can't tell the
difference between inclusion and exclusion in a set are of no concern.
Recall steps 1-5 and gain experience at incoherence and confusion when

appropriate... ? Lonnie


You know, Lonnie.... Ockham's Razor is just an "addage"... that wasn't
even necessarily stated or "thought up" by Ockham... As I've heard...
it was made up by others who wanted to be close to as good as
Ockham..... anyway.... I think maybe it would be more "fruitful" and
educational to actually learn something about what Ockham actually
thought, himself.....Fuck the addage....HAR

On Jun 6, 10:30 pm, Lonnie Clay <claylon...@comcast.net> wrote:

[Lonnie Clay]

Well sure, I referred to the notions that you should minimize the number of factors upon which a conclusion is based. It is necessary to have factors which are not inconsistent with each other as well. You can often combine factors which are mutually supporting into a single precept which is used to support a conclusion. If you have many factors present, then consider the possibility that you might be at a local minimum or inflection point in your trajectory of reasoning rather than at an absolute minimum. Don't be afraid to go back to "square one" and assemble factors all over again, laying them out in your mind in an entirely different order of precedence...

Finally, never assume that the least number of factors is the answer in a chain of reasoning, because there may be a tricky bastard like me who setup the situation which you are attempting to understand. In other words *error* is always a factor.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Friday, June 10, 2011 12:47:28 PM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote:

6) Learn logical reasoning, especially the difference between
necessary and
sufficient. Engrave the precept of "Occam's Razor" upon your chest
(metaphorically, not as a tattoo) and follow it faithfully but not
obsessively. Keep an eye out for others who reason logically for they
are
your natural enemies or allies. The run of the mill who can't tell the
difference between inclusion and exclusion in a set are of no concern.
Recall steps 1-5 and gain experience at incoherence and confusion when
appropriate...  ? Lonnie


You know, Lonnie.... Ockham's Razor is just an "addage"... that wasn't
even necessarily stated or "thought up" by Ockham... As I've heard...
it was made up by others who wanted to be close to as good as
Ockham..... anyway.... I think maybe it would be more "fruitful" and
educational to actually learn something about what Ockham actually
thought, himself.....Fuck the addage....HAR

[nominal9]

Lonnie... just to carry the conversation along.... a lot of people
I've heard use the word..."logic"... and there appear to be a lot of
different methods or ways to do it ... different sorts of "logic"....
Can you give me some notion of what you mean by "logic".... I'm always
sort of interested as to whether someone's notion of "logic" is more
"deductive"... or "inductive".... lawyers and such like "reasonable
inferences" a lot.... but that's a sort of "social" take on
"logic".... stick with telling me about your take on inductive or
deductive or some combination, first... would you please?

Scientists usually tend to induction or experiment.... unless you get
to theoretical sorts of scientists... they tend toward
deduction....computer programmers?... I don't know... my guess is Math-
based.... mostly deductive.... but you tell me... I'm just guessing...

[Lonnie Clay]

Hmm... Lemme do some introspection.

Okay mostly I use logic in the set theory sense. I categorize things which I sense, and determine relevancy to decide whether I will be able to consciously remember them later. If priority is sufficiently high, then I assimilate an experience and evaluate its impact upon my situation immediately. In order to do that, I must correlate the experience with my knowledge base, determine required responses based upon successful interactions in the past, and proceed with immediate stepwise responses appropriate to meet the goals which I just conceived on the fly. Perhaps examples will be easier, my introspection is somewhat incoherent since just got up from a long nap. The first situation is easy, the second tricky.

Easy : While going to the kitchen at night for a snack, I notice that one of the cats is lying on the rug in my path. Based upon prior behavior, the cat will probably take evasive action which could lead to the cat being kicked rather than avoided. Solution : Slow down so as not to startle the cat, approaching cautiously to see whether it will get up, or alternatively pretend that it does not notice my approach. Simultaneously with slowing down, begin veering off to one side so that the cat is reassured. Keep watching the cat, since I know the path to the kitchen in semidarkness quite well. Once past the cat, resume normal speed.

Tricky : As I enter the shrink's office, I notice that a frowning, squinting man is seated in the chair which will be opposite me if I take the usual "patient" chair. Immediately activate contingency plan for seizing the initiative in review sessions. As I seat myself, squirm about to appear uncomfortable and say "I notice that we have a visitor today..." FOCUS upon the regular shrink's response to attain maximum information from choice of words, sentence structure, intonation, inflection, and body language. He responds with "Yes, Dr x is a world renowned expert..." switch attention to Dr x and notice that he is simultaneously uncomfortable and preening.

Probability assessment, Dr x is not a specialist in abnormal psychology alone, and is here to evaluate my intellectual capabilities among other things. If he were a real expert, he would never be in this room, except in the sense that he is an ex-spurt, having petered out in his career and finds that time weighs so little that he can waste it on looking me over, rather than viewing a video from the comfort of his office. Fire salvo number one at doctor x, with "You always squint like that?" as I slump back in my chair and spread my legs wide, indicating vulnerability, and surrender to the authority of the incredible doctor x. Manage the session unobtrusively to minimize the validity of the observations of doctor x, making damn sure that he won't know what to believe. At session end, advance upon doctor x for a parting handshake. Squeeze hard and keep squeezing until doctor x begins pulling back his hand, communicating in unmistakable fashion that *I* had a grip on the situation, knew that I did, and that he is a slouch by comparison, or alternatively that I am just a hand bruiser.

So how's it going doctor x? Had your fill and going to send in a heavier gun for interviewing on the 28th? (Presuming my shrink has a Google alert and passes this discussion along.)

Alternatively, perhaps doctor x totally outclassed me, and adapted his responses to the situation as soon as I said "squint" so that he appeared far inferior to his actual capabilities...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:16:54 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote:

Lonnie... just to carry the conversation along.... a lot of people
I've heard use the word..."logic"... and there appear to be a lot of
different methods or ways to do it ... different sorts of "logic"....
Can you give me some notion of what you mean by "logic".... I'm always
sort of interested as to whether someone's notion of "logic" is more
"deductive"... or "inductive".... lawyers and such like "reasonable
inferences" a lot.... but that's a sort of "social" take on
"logic".... stick with telling me about your take on inductive or
deductive or some combination, first... would you please?

Scientists usually tend to induction or experiment.... unless you get
to theoretical sorts of scientists... they tend toward
deduction....computer programmers?... I don't know... my guess is Math-
based.... mostly deductive.... but you tell me... I'm just guessing...

[nominal9]

I'm not a psychiatrist... don't know that much about it.... however, I
was always fascinated by the notion of transference or
displacement....I find that it seems to work in very many
instances.... Often I find that what people accuse me of doing is
really what they are trying to do to me.....

[Lonnie Clay]

I'm pretty sure that the applicable term is "projection."

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Monday, June 13, 2011 10:34:54 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote:

I'm not a psychiatrist... don't know that much about it.... however, I
was always fascinated by the notion of transference or
displacement....I find that it seems to work in very many
instances.... Often I find that what people accuse me of doing is
really what they are trying to do to me.....

[nominal9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanism

Looks like you are right....kind of similar, though....Anyway, I was
given a smattering of mostly Jung in school... I read some Freud on my
own....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jung
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freud

These days, (I hear tell), they are both considered pretty much passe
and discredited....more of a clinical / medical approach to
it....pills and drugs and operations and such....
I had a college roommate once who had undergone a medical psychiatric
intervention... even back then....I liked him a lot... good guy...

> ...
>
> read more »

[Serenity Smiles]

Mahayanin is the Tibetan side of Buddhism, gelug being the school I took
refuge with, in or around 1995. This was through the guy Walker who steered
me into this path by telling me my mind thought processes were best suited
to Mahayanin and he also felt that this was the best philosophy he had ever
come across in his travels of the silk road, he too died in unknown
circumstances I never saw the body so I leave that to emptiness. Being
Buddhist we "dance with the dead" to recover their "lives". My life has
been shadowed by musicians ever since David Bowie became famous, (one of the
few people my father used to drive as a private taxi driver, the infamous
Max Moseley another), or that was when I first started to realise. Just who
or how "I" was set up is still a mystery to me. I made Liberace as a
possibilty about twenty years ago now, but this is when it got "heavy" for
me whether as I said because my "suitability" as a radical, green liberal
did not suit the conservative fascist elitist elements or even the Masters
because I was not strong enough mentally to withstand the secret practises
is still debatable. But have never been able to "escape" the "box" or
realising "my life" in advertising and now in programmes (my contribution
from when I signed into this group).

Because my centre is not exactly a "safe" journey for me. I decided to use
the epistemological group as a "substitute". I had been working in the
library at my centre but too many people were coming in, not to practise but
to hassle me and I was suspecting hacks. By now my mind had elevated
through study, practise and meditation that my visualisations had started,
seeing Buddhas and other visuals, and creating my own. Like synesthesia not
conceptualised "just arriving from a distance at first until now they just
appear randomly. That was when I was "brain mapped" I guess. I now
experience myself as a vehicle for those to "see" through my eyes and also
receive increased phenomena, bubbles of deities like the madonna and others
who have passed over and the scientists transmit responses or "things" via
media hardware, tv's, supermarket sound systems. I still conform strictly
with Buddha's ethics and the path. Now the musicians in America are able to
decode and I can advise or translate via here who or what, when and where.
Its really mundane now, I just wish for a "better" life than mooching in
depression of having a brain that is not put to better use.

What I see is life in duality and everything in emptiness.

I did not want my daughter to "suffer" like I have. myself being the third
generation I guess of being shadowed and did not want her going into the
"box" too so, when this happened, I just had to expose myself to you guys
although, knowing this to be a great age of hacking etc I do not know what
source takes the info as I deliberately left my laptop at my centre
overnight. But like I said I am still in the "dark" really, not really sure
what to do exactly but doing nothing seems to be the safest option and
helping out if I can those who need if I am capable as and when it arises. I
have been to my centre but Geshe la is not there its still all a big secret
for me. I get upset or frustrated because I cannot answer fundamental
questions like who my family is, both sides kept hidden and a family who
refuse to communicate with me. But the only common link being the military.
Canadian (lovers of mother and grandmother) so I am lead to believe and an
English one on my part, all "love rats" leaving illegitimate children, which
has always made me feel that this has been the British and American response
to Hitler's ambition "does Buddhism work". The list of names of people in
my life who taught me or were professionally involved are deliberately
uncanny for writing things in a karmically ethical way, like Miss Read,
Ring, Kill, Savage etc. hardly rocket science. So in a nutshell lol, there
you go.

[Lonnie Clay]

Dear SS! Do not fret over the dead past, but set your mind upon the road ahead, proceeding apace toward your destiny with alert senses and an enquiring mind. From your current surroundings follow a pathway toward enlightenment not by just reading the words of others or breaking new ground yourself, but through a combination of those strategies. Avoid the Scylla and Charybdis traps of blind logic and unthinking superstition. Retain a sense of optimism and refresh yourself frequently with pure entertainment such as visiting a zoo or going to an amusement park. The denizens of those two locales will give you fresh perspectives. Don't ignore "facts", but don't assume that the dogmatic worldview of those who lead a humdrum existence is valid. Keep in mind that at one time the world was gripped by ignorance so profound that Galileo Galilei was tried for the equivalent of crimes against humanity today simply for believing that the Earth was not the center about which the Universe revolved. The dogmas of science today will be as laughably contemptible as the Copernican worldview within a few hundred years. Think about how your mind works, as I have discussed elsewhere and above all, "Do as you please."

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gentle....@hotmail.co.uk>

wrote:
> Also Walker was influential in the fact that he was honest in providng me
> the correct information and the knowledge of the path to follow -
> Mahayanin - the opposite is my daughter's father who never supported and
> evaded and was the biggest player I have ever known.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archytas
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 4:38 PM
> To: Epistemology
> Subject: [epistemology 12123] Re: actual epistemology
>
> hi nom - much the same feelings here - I've been travelling a lot and
> returned to his absence.
>

> On Jun 8, 12:25 am, nominal9 <nomi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi Archytas... allow me to change the subject just to ask a "social"
> > question....Where, Georges Metanomski?.... is he okay?.... I had some
> > disagreements with the codger.... but I'm still a bit fond of the
> > "coot"....
>

[awori achoka]

That's how life is meant to be! The Kiswahili word for it is 'Utu'. Utu is the totality of human experience equivalent to love.

AA

On Jun 16, 2011 6:59 AM, "Lonnie Clay" <clayl...@comcast.net> wrote:
Dear SS! Do not fret over the dead past, but set your mind upon the road ahead, proceeding apace toward your destiny with alert senses and an enquiring mind. From your current surroundings follow a pathway toward enlightenment not by just reading the words of others or breaking new ground yourself, but through a combination of those strategies. Avoid the Scylla and Charybdis traps of blind logic and unthinking superstition. Retain a sense of optimism and refresh yourself frequently with pure entertainment such as visiting a zoo or going to an amusement park. The denizens of those two locales will give you fresh perspectives. Don't ignore "facts", but don't assume that the dogmatic worldview of those who lead a humdrum existence is valid. Keep in mind that at one time the world was gripped by ignorance so profound that Galileo Galilei was tried for the equivalent of crimes against humanity today simply for believing that the Earth was not the center about which the Universe revolved. The dogmas of science today will be as laughably contemptible as the Copernican worldview within a few hundred years. Think about how your mind works, as I have discussed elsewhere and above all, "Do as you please."

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:26:07 AM UTC-7, Serenity Smiles wrote:

>
> Mahayanin is the Tibetan side of Buddhism, gelug being the school I took

> refuge with, in or ...

On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gentle....@hotmail.co.uk>

> wrote:
> > Also Walker was influential in the fact that he was honest in providng me

> > the corr...

> > On Jun 8, 12:25 am, nominal9 <nomi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > Hi Archytas... allow me to change ...

> > > On Jun 6, 7:09 pm, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >

> > > > Those who know me know I can...

> To post to this group, send email to episte...@googlegroups.com.

> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> epistemology...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.

>
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[Serenity Smiles]

Dear Lonnie, that is so sweet and yes I wish I could enjoy such things as visiting Howletts Zoo etc but, I am not going to get hurt again without reliable support, my hands hurt because of inherited eczema and although the doctor said they would get better they do not.  I need “human contact” that I can have faith in.  This does not exist for me so achieving such ambitions are pointless at the moment.  I need SUPPORT AND PROTECTION.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/DlU5eSW7xvAJ.

[Lonnie Clay]

You live and breathe right? Take ten deep breaths. Muster your patience and ask your conscience what is wrong with your approach to life. For example, the shouted call below for "support and protection" is revealing. Are you famished and dying of hunger? Are you dying of thirst? Are your lungs clogged up with so much phlegm that you cannot breath? Are you dying of heat prostration or is your skin frozen with cold? Count your blessings before you count your losses. Life support operational? Is there a knife at your throat, or a gun in your belly? You complain of eczema, is that so painful as to be life threatening? For example my sister has Fibromyalgia and suffers constant intense pain throughout her body...

Looking back over the preceding paragraph, it may appear that I am unsympathetic and callous. That is not true. I am taking the time to seriously think of how I can be of help when I am "mentally insane" and live on $985 per month of disability pension, being one year's income in debt. You are welcome to send me an email at lonniecou...@gmail.com or to visit at 3395 Harrell Road Arlington TN U.S.A at any time for in person advice. It seems to me that what you need most is reassurance that life has meaning, though it may be an impossibly tangled snarl of thread. Life DOES have meaning, primarily as a training ground for your soul in dealing with limited senses, mental resources, and physical resources in a "hard" environment. If it was going to be easy, then there would not be ANY point to playing the game, now would there? Check your score right now. How many assets physically accumulated, apparently little, who cares. How far have you come mentally since that first outraged scream of infancy at birth when you discovered that you had to breathe for a living? I estimate quite far according to your posts which I have read. How much influence has there been on the others living about you and what environmental impact have you made, both positive and negative?

Apparently you are not blind, or retarded, or crippled without hands since you are using a computer. How well have you utilized your bonuses and overcome your handicaps from birth. For example, my parents were from farming families, my dad never earned more than minimum wage until I was in high school, my mother had to care for six children, of which I am the youngest, the family was always neck deep in debt to such an extent that doctor visits were made only for life threatening conditions blah blah blah. But I struggled out of the pit to graduate Summa Cum Laude in Electrical Engineering in 1979, supported the rest of the family for 11 years then mooched off of my brother for the past 20. Mentioning my brother, who is one year older than me, he flunked out of the same engineering school I attended (with my money paying his bills), got a job through a draftsman's training program (which I helped arrange), worked his way into CAD designing, from there into electrical designing, and is now a senior electrical designer at a Fortune 500 chemical company and considered essential personnel to the extent that last year he was the LAST designer they had left after laying off the rest. Things are better now and he leads the pack.

"Let your light shine forth" and stop cursing the darkness SS, because it only makes the ghosts laugh. Laugh at THEM and defy this darkness which seems to have you in a slump. Stop listening to the damn vampire doctors! Has a doctor solved your problems yet? NO, the occasional SYMPTOM of a problem may have disappeared, but your fundamental problem, as with so many of the vast majority of people is that you never learned proper control of your body. Get a GRIP on it and activate your immune system. Eat nutritious foods and stop poisoning your body with drugs, including those prescribed by the witch doctor. Physical symptoms are a warning sign that you are losing your grip. Once again, get a grip on your body! Look UP out of the pit, find handholds, and claw your way to higher ground. If you see somebody else in trouble worse than yours, render assistance and improve your karma, as I just did with you. You'll feel better about yourself, self esteem bolsters confidence, self confidence yields inspiration, and inspiration yields solutions.

There there now, feel better?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gentl...@hotmail.co.uk>

> To post to this group, send email to epis...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> For more options, visit this group
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[awori achoka]

Lonnie your advice is excellent!

>> *From:* Lonnie Clay
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2011 4:55 AM
>> *To:* episte...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [epistemology 12150] Re: actual epistemology

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/nejZGBI0zJQJ.

[Lonnie Clay]

ops! I posted the resonse to this thread above, check it out. Also, have a bit of redemption, courtesy of Wagner...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoSLD1sCyfc

Richard Wagner - Tannhauser - Pilgrim's Chorus

In the opera, Tannhauser is about to submit once again to the temptations of Venus despite needing to conform to Christianity in order to satisy his lover Elizabeth, who has died while he was on pilgrimage to Rome. On the verge, a band of Pilgrim's arrives carrying the staff of the Pope, which miraculously bloomed because of the curse upon poor Tannhauser that he could not be redeemed any more than the staff could blossom. God played a joke on the Pope at the request of Elizabeth, who died of longing for her precious true love's return. Or so the story goes as I recall. Anyhow Tannhauser drops dead when he sees the staff and the Christians are happy at having another bloody miracle...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

[Lonnie Clay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5zLvBengQ

20 Divas Queen of the Night Aria.

As you listen to the above, consider that no matter how unfortunate your circumstances, all but one person in the world (the most pathetic unfortunate) lacks the ability to claim that there is nobody worse off than them. Furthermore consider that no matter how high you might rise, there is always someone higher, except for the one who is at the pinnacle. Guess what happens when you reach the pinnacle? Consider Bill Gates, richest man in the world in 2001 who saw the error of being such a self centered greedy person and who now devotes his life to *wisely* disposing of his wealth to those throughout the world who are in need, rather than grasping for yet more wealth.

In summary, life has its ups and downs. Just because you are down at the moment does not mean that there is no hope. If you are up, then there is no assurance that you will not be down tomorrow. Strive to optimize your situation with the resources at hand. Keep alert for opportunity when it knocks, because it might not knock again for a while if you fail to see your chance to go for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1UEMU1gBk

Lucille Ball - Hey! Look Me Over! from "Wildcat"

Lonnie Courtney Clay

>> *To:* epis...@googlegroups.com

>>> On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gent...@hotmail.co.uk>

>>> > To post to this group, send email to epi...@googlegroups.com.

>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>>> > epistem...@googlegroups.com.

>>> > For more options, visit this group
>>> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
>>>
>>> --
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>> To post to this group, send email to epis...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> epistem...@googlegroups.com.

[Serenity Smiles]

Lol, I am not asking for assistance nor am I attached to the three poisons of attachment, hatred or desire, but, yes, I do have to live in a shithole when even opening plastic packaging bottles, etc etc cause my fingers to bleed, all the nerve endings are in your fingertips, and women actually have twice as many pain receptors than you guys so have some humility please.  Luckily, I am a touch typist so this does not effect me like domestic duties do and yes, I have “given” a lot to improving society over the years, helping with the downfall of the Berlin wall, so ya or so ha so ha so ha a “helping hand and holiday” would be as you yanks say “awesome”.  But, I do not like to blow my own trumpet for the sake of an ego just a little understanding.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/nejZGBI0zJQJ.

[Serenity Smiles]

So ha so ha so ha, watch your own karma Awori, I know for a fact I am probably a lot cleaner than yours is.  You bought into a negative system, I did not, humility is utmost in Buddhism and your lack of respect is noted.

 

From: awori achoka

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:45 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:epistemology%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
>

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[Serenity Smiles]

Plus where I “live” is surrounded by organised crime, it is not a “safe” environment.  Fun loving criminals who think perpetuating the street crime by supplying dick heads with drugs instead of supporting sensible plans of at least taking the criminal element away from the weapon bearing lunatics by legitimising to those who can control supply rather than leaving it to barbarianism because prohibition never “works”.  Like i said I was shot in the head the other week not a serious incident but because I WAS waiting patiently at a bus stop (public transport), it was enough because of other assualts I have received having to “live” here to avoid such.  Plus my hands are bad enough that I cannot carry shopping bags at the moment.  Thanks for the support.  I AM YOUR MOTHER.

 

Love and prayers to you all

From: awori achoka

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:45 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:epistemology%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
>

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[Serenity Smiles]

Desire??  Yahoo spit, (YUK), I despise intensely spitting) Net in yahoo so ha so ha so ha.  This is exactly my point and why I remain steadfastly in retreat, living in humility and not caring if the place gets worse or better, everything changes nothing is permanent and eventually something will have to change, just pray its not the fascists at the door.

 

Try looking up Enoch Powell’s “river’s of blood” speech from the early 1970’s .

 

Pots of king Oms, is always an infallible illusion “No Smoking” to ensure safety at the bottom. or should that read (in emptiness) smoking??  The Buddhists don’t like it and is totally socially unacceptable.  I would quit if “life” changed but sitting here in the dark leads to dark conditions, they sent me to hell so in hell there is fire.

 

Love and prayers

 

 

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:20 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/rgpEQFurKv4J.

[Serenity Smiles]

Now you raise an interesting point as well for me.  When you say nothing but the most unfortunate, ok status can be much more severly effected than myself but in Buddhism one does not deem this as a worthy condition but a condition that deserves our love and compassion not out of pity but because every human has the right to overcome suffering.  We say one carries one’s pervasive karma through from our previous lives and mine was meant to be “set up” but, conscious awareness of a situation like all other prisoners of consciousness, has forced me to go “down” until “up”, and,  “out” instead of “in” until form arrives in a form I can tolerate.  Buddha always chooses a low place of circumstance and practices according to the Dharma. I have no qualms.    

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:20 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [epistemology 12159] Re: actual epistemology

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/rgpEQFurKv4J.

[Serenity Smiles]

Do you think Mr. Gates could design an artists tool for messenger??   It would be “awesome” to have the extra facility to be able to draw whilst being able to call or message with someone.  Now that would be a far more helpful tool than extra emoticons.

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:20 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [epistemology 12159] Re: actual epistemology

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/epistemology/-/rgpEQFurKv4J.

[Lonnie Clay]

Check out Google gmail video chat SS. You could doodle a picture on paper and hold it up to the camera...

I'm glad to see that you are feeling better and thinking of things other than your problems. Bill is very busy with philanthropy nowadays, and no longer involved much with Microsoft...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

On Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:59:31 AM UTC-7, Serenity Smiles wrote:

Do you think Mr. Gates could design an artists tool for messenger??   It would be “awesome” to have the extra facility to be able to draw whilst being able to call or message with someone.  Now that would be a far more helpful tool than extra emoticons.

 

From: Lonnie Clay

Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:20 PM

To: episte...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [epistemology 12159] Re: actual epistemology

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5zLvBengQ

 

20 Divas Queen of the Night Aria.

 

As you listen to the above, consider that no matter how unfortunate your circumstances, all but one person in the world (the most pathetic unfortunate) lacks the ability to claim that there is nobody worse off than them. Furthermore consider that no matter how high you might rise, there is always someone higher, except for the one who is at the pinnacle. Guess what happens when you reach the pinnacle? Consider Bill Gates, richest man in the world in 2001 who saw the error of being such a self centered greedy person and who now devotes his life to *wisely* disposing of his wealth to those throughout the world who are in need, rather than grasping for yet more wealth.

 

In summary, life has its ups and downs. Just because you are down at the moment does not mean that there is no hope. If you are up, then there is no assurance that you will not be down tomorrow. Strive to optimize your situation with the resources at hand. Keep alert for opportunity when it knocks, because it might not knock again for a while if you fail to see your chance to go for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1UEMU1gBk

 

Lucille Ball - Hey! Look Me Over! from "Wildcat"

 

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

 

On Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:45:44 AM UTC-7, Awori wrote:

Lonnie your advice is excellent!

On Jun 16, 2011 3:40 PM, "Lonnie Clay" <clay...@comcast.net> wrote:
> You live and breathe right? Take ten deep breaths. Muster your patience and
> ask your conscience what is wrong with your approach to life. For example,
> the shouted call below for "support and protection" is revealing. Are you
> famished and dying of hunger? Are you dying of thirst? Are your lungs
> clogged up with so much phlegm that you cannot breath? Are you dying of heat
> prostration or is your skin frozen with cold? Count your blessings before
> you count your losses. Life support operational? Is there a knife at your
> throat, or a gun in your belly? You complain of eczema, is that so painful
> as to be life threatening? For example my sister has Fibromyalgia and
> suffers constant intense pain throughout her body...
>
> Looking back over the preceding paragraph, it may appear that I am
> unsympathetic and callous. That is not true. I am taking the time to
> seriously think of how I can be of help when I am "mentally insane" and live
> on $985 per month of disability pension, being one year's income in debt.

> You are welcome to send me an email at lonnie...@gmail.com or to

>> *To:* epi...@googlegroups.com

>>> On Jun 9, 1:09 pm, "Serenity Smiles" <gen...@hotmail.co.uk>

>>> > epist...@googlegroups.com.

>>> > For more options, visit this group
>>> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>>> epist...@googlegroups.com.

>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
>>>
>> --
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>
> --
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[jim]

On Jun 18, 5:59 am, "Serenity Smiles" <gentle.esse...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

> Do you think Mr. Gates could design an artists tool for messenger??   It would be “awesome” to have the extra facility to be able to draw whilst being able to call or message with someone.  Now that would be a far more helpful tool than extra emoticons.
>
> From: Lonnie Clay
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:20 PM
> To: episte...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [epistemology 12159] Re: actual epistemology
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5zLvBengQ
>
> 20 Divas Queen of the Night Aria.
>
> As you listen to the above, consider that no matter how unfortunate your circumstances, all but one person in the world (the most pathetic unfortunate) lacks the ability to claim that there is nobody worse off than them. Furthermore consider that no matter how high you might rise, there is always someone higher, except for the one who is at the pinnacle. Guess what happens when you reach the pinnacle? Consider Bill Gates, richest man in the world in 2001 who saw the error of being such a self centered greedy person and who now devotes his life to *wisely* disposing of his wealth to those throughout the world who are in need, rather than grasping for yet more wealth.

Well, with Gates it was a special case though.
A lot of decided that if a person can make
multibillion dollars a year selling netware to
AT&T, then the only people that should work
for the company is Disneyworld anyway.

> ...
>
> read more »