Raspberry pi Supercomputer

[Kirt]

If one of these can run VistA, what could 64 do ?

Meet the Raspberry Pi Supercomputer--with Lego!

http://ostatic.com/blog/meet-the-raspberry-pi-supercomputer-with-lego

Kirt

[JohnLeo Zimmer]

...I have a source in Pittsburgh with plenty of Legos  :-)

GrapaZ

But will GT.M run on the Raspberry?

--
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[Joseph Dal Molin]

VistA used to run on 486's and at one of the past community meetings the
server ran on the One Laptop Per Child notebook... so running VistA on
one of these should be as easy as pie. :-)

Joseph

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[rtweed]

The key step that is needed is porting GT.M to ARM. We've been
discussing this at the VistA Expo. A non-trivial exercise,
unfortunately, but if we can find the right people who understand
what's needed and how to do it, it should be do-able. I, for one,
would love to see it happen

Rob

On Sep 14, 3:44 pm, Joseph Dal Molin <dalmo...@e-cology.ca> wrote:
> VistA used to run on 486's and at one of the past community meetings the
> server ran on the One Laptop Per Child notebook... so running VistA on
> one of these should be as easy as pie. :-)
>
> Joseph
>
> On 12-09-14 10:01 AM, Kirt wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > If one of these can run VistA, what could 64 do ?
>
> >     Meet the Raspberry Pi Supercomputer--with Lego!
>
> >http://ostatic.com/blog/meet-the-raspberry-pi-supercomputer-with-lego
>
> > Kirt
> > --
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[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 8:10 AM, JohnLeo Zimmer <johnl...@gmail.com> wrote:

...I have a source in Pittsburgh with plenty of Legos  :-)

GrapaZ

But will GT.M run on the Raspberry?

Not without a port. It is an ARM chip, not x86.

 

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Kirt <kirtw...@gmail.com> wrote:

If one of these can run VistA, what could 64 do ?

Meet the Raspberry Pi Supercomputer--with Lego!

http://ostatic.com/blog/meet-the-raspberry-pi-supercomputer-with-lego

Kirt

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[Joseph Dal Molin]

.... alas, now I remember that "gotcha" :-(

Joseph

[Mike Dupont]

How about rewriting all that crappy assembler in c for a start?
mike

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[rtweed]

On Sep 14, 5:33 pm, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> How about rewriting all that crappy assembler in c for a start?
> mike
>

Are you volunteering?

[Mike Dupont]

When I have time it is on my list, but really working on gtm is so
painful I can find 100 other floss projects that are more fun to work
on. I have 20 years of c experience, if someone wants to pay then I am
in.
mike

[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Mike Dupont <jamesmi...@googlemail.com> wrote:

How about rewriting all that crappy assembler in c for a start?
mike

 

Hmm... that is an odd idea.  Why use crappy when you can use the

best, just by booting?  Raspberry Pi runs full Linux.. You can use the

full GNU GCC suite of things.  Also, if you are suggesting writing the

small amount of C code that is in GT.M.. you are off track.  There is

good reason for that code to be written in assembler.. which is too

obvious to discuss here.

The problem is that GT.M is really a compiler, generating machine

code.  Since the ARM chip instructions are not x86 instructions, you

have to change the code generation in GT.M.

Since the full source code exists and shows x86, amd64, alpha, VAX,

P-Series, Itanium and other CPUs, those could be a guide for what

changes to make.  This is not that hard, but requires deep knowledge

of the hardware instructions, not at a level that any MUMPSters that I

know are familiar with.

FWIW, I understand that Ray Newman already ported MUMPS-V1

to the rpi.. MUMPSV1 has a VM approach.  Also, NodeJS is on the

rpi, so perhaps those would be areas where MUMPSters can put

some effort. (Feel free to tackle GT.M too... but that is a bigger

project, IMO).

Since I have 4x RPi's and have done that sort of low-level hacking,

I am looking forward to when I have the time...  I have all the "toys".

[Rob Tweed]

The problem with MumpsV1 is its 8 character labels, variable names, routine names etc.  EWD will not run on it, so unless someone wants to fix this, I'm afraid MumpsV1 isn't any real use to me

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[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Mike Dupont <jamesmi...@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:34 PM, rtweed <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 5:33 pm, Mike  Dupont <jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>> How about rewriting all that crappy assembler in c for a start?
>> mike
>>
>
> Are you volunteering?
>

When I have time it is on my list, but really working on gtm is so
painful I can find 100 other floss projects that are more fun to work
on.

I don't see it as "painful"... but rather, not a toy.  It is a real solution,

and non-trivial (as is any real project). BUT I am with you! It is work.

If folks feel they have time and wheels, I'd recommend that you take

a look at MUMPS-V1 over on http://sourceforge.net/projects/mumps/files/

we welcome the help!!

 

I have 20 years of c experience, if someone wants to pay then I am
in.

Yeah, me too.. heavy UNIX kernel hacking from 1982-1990 then I

discovered MUMPS in 1991, which has been paying the bills since

(I still do and like C and kernel, but that is a retirement phase 3 thing).

 

mike

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[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:15 PM, LD 'Gus' Landis <ldla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, if you are suggesting writing the
> small amount of C code that is in GT.M.. you are off track. There is
> good reason for that code to be written in assembler.. which is too
> obvious to discuss here.

I mean the bunch of assember routines in gtm, they could be generated
by a compiler, no? that would make porting easier, or are there c
equivalents for them?
mike

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:23 PM, LD 'Gus' Landis <ldla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If folks feel they have time and wheels, I'd recommend that you take
> a look at MUMPS-V1 over on http://sourceforge.net/projects/mumps/files/
> we welcome the help!!

what is the different between that and gtm?
mike

[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Rob Tweed <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem with MumpsV1 is its 8 character labels, variable names, routine names etc.  EWD will not run on it, so unless someone wants to fix this, I'm afraid MumpsV1 isn't any real use to me

Dear Rob,

IMO, this is realatively low hanging fruit for MUMPS V1.

The larger issue is going to be routine size... BUT it too is

not that big of a deal.  We just need competent C helpers.

Cheers,

  --ldl 

[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Mike Dupont <jamesmi...@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:23 PM, LD 'Gus' Landis <ldla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If folks feel they have time and wheels, I'd recommend that you take
> a look at MUMPS-V1 over on http://sourceforge.net/projects/mumps/files/
> we welcome the help!!

what is the different between that and gtm?

Oh my!  Hmm... Where do I start?

Probably like the difference between SQLite and full up Oracle??  (Not

saying this in a bad way at all. I like both).  Different targets. 

 

mike

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[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Mike Dupont <jamesmi...@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:15 PM, LD 'Gus' Landis <ldla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Also, if you are suggesting writing the
> small amount of C code that is in GT.M.. you are off track.  There is
> good reason for that code to be written in assembler.. which is too
> obvious to discuss here.

I mean the bunch of assember routines in gtm, they could be generated
by a compiler, no? that would make porting easier, or are there c
equivalents for them?
mike

Dear Mike,

I think on closer examination of the routines and consideration of

the problem GT.M is solving (and its architectural flexibility), you

would develop a different conclusion.

GT.M's philosophy, contrasted to the "other MUMPS"s (all of them

that I've experienced, MUMPSV1, DTM, ISM, MSM, DSM, Cache,

and I supposed you could now include Ensemble)... the idea was

to generate actual machine code, not running in a virtual MUMPS

machine.

Cheers,

  --ldl 

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[K.S. Bhaskar]

While there may well be some assembler routines that can be recoded in C, the majority of them are there for a purpose and cannot easily be replaced.  GT.M is a compiler and generates native object code (threaded code that calls entry points in the GT.M run-time).  The GT.M run-time needs to manipulate the C stack, provide interludes between the generated object code and entry points in the GT.M run-time (which are actually written in C, but the interludes are small assembly language software shims).

So, while the GT.M database engine would run as-is on ARM (since it is all in POSIX C), the language side of GT.M requires a compiler to be ported to ARM.  In addition to the assembly language routines, the GT.M compiler would also need code generation templates.

Regards
-- Bhaskar

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[Mike Dupont]

yes i understand,
there are libs for that, for example libjit
http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/libjit/?root=dotgnu-pnet

http://codingrelic.geekhold.com/2010/07/exploring-libjit.html arm is supported.

http://code.google.com/p/libjit-linear-scan-register-allocator/

mike

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[Mike Dupont]

http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/JITRewrite see this for a nice
review, gtm is not the only lang that needs a jit.
mike

[K.S. Bhaskar]

Thanks for the pointer, yes, I am aware of some of these - I did look at parrot last year.  One of our challenges with GT.M is that the compilation itself needs to be very fast, since the M language includes a command to dynamically compile and execute strings, and an indirection operator.  Also, scalability of GT.M is a major requirement - the largest production sites serve 10,000+ concurrent users with aggregate databases in the multi-TB range (and individual database files in the hundreds of GB).

Regards
-- Bhaskar

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[Mike Dupont]

well it sounds like an interesting problem. I think that any porting
to arm or mobile will be smaller
we can make a branch for experimentation of course this will mean
maintaining a second branch.
but if you want to move forward , i feel we should get rid of code
that is best maintained in common with others.
also languages like perl and python which target parrot also support eval.
as i said, I dont have much time for gtm right now I am open to paid
work, but my time i am
working on smaller projects that i can manage. If anyone wants to
hire me i am willing to work on this stuff full time

mike

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[Rob Tweed]

Remember that if the purpose of this is to port to the Raspberry Pi, we're not talking about an implementation that necessarily needs to be rip-roaringly fast.  Personally I'd rather have something that's sub-optimal but works initially - performance can come later

[JohnLeo Zimmer]

Need more speed? Add more Legos...
and Raspberries. :-)

On Sep 14, 2012 5:41 PM, "Rob Tweed" <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

[K.S. Bhaskar]

Thanks, Mike.  At this time, we do not have funding for an ARM port to hire you.

Rob, while an ARM port need to not run fast (at least for you; there are increasingly ARM servers on the market and someday performance will be important), running with Parrot would itself involve a GT.M port (likely a more complex port than a native ARM port).

Regards
-- Bhaskar

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[Toucan]

Hello Rob - it will be interesting to see what effect the following announcement will make with respect to application servers running on an ARM architecture.  /Tony

AMD in chip tie-up with UK's ARM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20137041

[Toucan]

It would also be interesting to see GT.M running on a NAS, see links below.  /Tony

What kind of CPU does my NAS have

http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have

Synology DS112+ DiskStation 1 Bay All-in-1 NAS Enclosure

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00896Q0WY

AMD promises ARM-powered servers by 2014

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2220745/amd-promises-armpowered-servers-by-2014

[rtweed]

I think this article sums up the importance of the Raspberry Pi and
why someone somewhere needs to be doing something about it. What
better way of bringing GT.M to the attention of tomorrow's
developers :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/04/raspberry-pi-programming-jam-cern