Building a particle bombardement device DIY
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Mega
Aug 26, 2012, 6:15:53 AM8/26/12
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Hi,
I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle bombardement.
They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide (widely available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum pump.
Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the cells without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some pressure' ?
(I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle bombardement.
They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide (widely available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum pump.
Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the cells without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some pressure' ?
(I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
Cathal Garvey
Aug 26, 2012, 6:55:34 AM8/26/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
The reason they use helium is, AFAIK, because the speed-of-sound in
helium (which loosely relates to the maximum speed it can accelerate
something to) is really, really high.
You could probably do it with pressurised carbon/nitrogen, though.
Original models were literally just modified airguns, so I think it's
just a tradeoff of efficiency against cost of use.
Vacuum will really improve efficiency, but I don't imagine it has to be
anything close to hard vacuum; just enough to stop the particles getting
slowed down significantly on their way to the cells.
"Too much" pressure.. I don't know. I do know that when you do
bombardment on a plate of cells, you see a central area of
blasted-to-death cells, an outer layer of nothing-happens, and a corona
of transformed cells. So "too much" pressure probably means a more
extreme version of this.
Speaking of this pattern, in a vacuum the particles won't scatter much
due to air resistance, so you could try taking measures to make them
spread slightly more if the gun just shoots straight through the middle
of the plate with no "corona" zone. Like flaring the end of the barrel
slightly, so the escaping gasses diffuse a little as they leave,
carrying the particles with them.
--
www.indiebiotech.com
twitter.com/onetruecathal
joindiaspora.com/u/cathalgarvey
PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey
helium (which loosely relates to the maximum speed it can accelerate
something to) is really, really high.
You could probably do it with pressurised carbon/nitrogen, though.
Original models were literally just modified airguns, so I think it's
just a tradeoff of efficiency against cost of use.
Vacuum will really improve efficiency, but I don't imagine it has to be
anything close to hard vacuum; just enough to stop the particles getting
slowed down significantly on their way to the cells.
"Too much" pressure.. I don't know. I do know that when you do
bombardment on a plate of cells, you see a central area of
blasted-to-death cells, an outer layer of nothing-happens, and a corona
of transformed cells. So "too much" pressure probably means a more
extreme version of this.
Speaking of this pattern, in a vacuum the particles won't scatter much
due to air resistance, so you could try taking measures to make them
spread slightly more if the gun just shoots straight through the middle
of the plate with no "corona" zone. Like flaring the end of the barrel
slightly, so the escaping gasses diffuse a little as they leave,
carrying the particles with them.
www.indiebiotech.com
twitter.com/onetruecathal
joindiaspora.com/u/cathalgarvey
PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey
Mega
Aug 26, 2012, 7:44:26 AM8/26/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Do you think it's better to buy one from ebay? xD Unfortunatley, there are none.
Or when a lab is closed down, they sell all their equipment... Are there such websites selling throw-away lab eqipment?
Or when a lab is closed down, they sell all their equipment... Are there such websites selling throw-away lab eqipment?
Mega
Aug 26, 2012, 9:07:21 AM8/26/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Ok,
How much will the operation costs be like when I bought / built one? How much do the gold / tungsten particles cost?
Will they be affordable or cost ~ 60$ per 0,001g of gold particles for 1 transfection??
Nathan McCorkle
Aug 26, 2012, 5:12:02 PM8/26/12
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Gold $97 USD starting price here (50nm-1000nm)
http://www.microspheres-nanospheres.com/Microspheres/Inorganic/Metals/Gold.htm
But since DNA's backbone is negatively charged, I think it should
adsorb on a positively charged surface, maybe silica coated in NH2
would work?
$300 USD for 1 g of 500nm avg particles coated in NH2
http://www.bangslabs.com/products/o/list/Uniform%20Silica%20Microspheres/SA03N/72
Another system I read about used silica crystallized with detergents
creating a mesoporous (not micro, not macro) structure which they
packed with DNA and inducer and capped with gold, then removed the
gold by soaking the tissues in a detergent, causing particles inside
cells to be unpacked:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18654287
A paper that cited the above mentioned said the gold also added mass
to help ballistics (i.e. to add inertia for getting into the cell)
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--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics
http://www.microspheres-nanospheres.com/Microspheres/Inorganic/Metals/Gold.htm
But since DNA's backbone is negatively charged, I think it should
adsorb on a positively charged surface, maybe silica coated in NH2
would work?
$300 USD for 1 g of 500nm avg particles coated in NH2
http://www.bangslabs.com/products/o/list/Uniform%20Silica%20Microspheres/SA03N/72
Another system I read about used silica crystallized with detergents
creating a mesoporous (not micro, not macro) structure which they
packed with DNA and inducer and capped with gold, then removed the
gold by soaking the tissues in a detergent, causing particles inside
cells to be unpacked:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18654287
A paper that cited the above mentioned said the gold also added mass
to help ballistics (i.e. to add inertia for getting into the cell)
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "DIYbio" group.
> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics
Patrik D'haeseleer
Aug 27, 2012, 6:03:45 AM8/27/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
We were tossing around the idea of a DIY gene gun at BioCurious as well. Sure, helium and gold particles may be more efficient, but I bet a hacked bb gun and, say, magnetite particles may give at least some transformation as well.
Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use the gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal samples:
http://www.jove.com/index/details.stp?id=675
Patrik
Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use the gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal samples:
http://www.jove.com/index/details.stp?id=675
Patrik
Patrik D'haeseleer
Aug 27, 2012, 6:22:29 AM8/27/12
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Andreas Sturm
Aug 27, 2012, 11:38:46 AM8/27/12
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I was thinking in investing into http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/226547546/Portable_Gene_Gun.html this one. 300$ for one device.
But if the particles are this expensive...
But if the particles are this expensive...
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Patrik D'haeseleer
Aug 27, 2012, 2:35:46 PM8/27/12
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That's a great find!
I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert, preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice. That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it. Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
Patrik
I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert, preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice. That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it. Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
Patrik
Cathal Garvey
Aug 28, 2012, 1:15:21 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Would magnetite not aggregate into lumps?
On 27/08/12 19:35, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
> That's a great find!
>
> I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle
> composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert,
> preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a
> professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice.
> That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
>
> I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how
> to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to
> make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder
> I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as
> gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it.
> Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow
> us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
>
> Patrik
>
> On Monday, August 27, 2012 8:38:46 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking in investing into
>> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/226547546/Portable_Gene_Gun.html this
>> one. 300$ for one device.
>>
>>
>> But if the particles are this expensive...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <pat...@gmail.com<javascript:>
>>> .
On 27/08/12 19:35, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
> That's a great find!
>
> I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle
> composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert,
> preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a
> professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice.
> That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
>
> I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how
> to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to
> make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder
> I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as
> gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it.
> Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow
> us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
>
> Patrik
>
> On Monday, August 27, 2012 8:38:46 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking in investing into
>> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/226547546/Portable_Gene_Gun.html this
>> one. 300$ for one device.
>>
>>
>> But if the particles are this expensive...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's some more useful DIY info:
>>>
>>> http://thalamus.wustl.edu/nonetlab/ResourcesF/genegun/Genegun.htm
>>> http://dictybase.org/techniques/particle%20gun/particle_gun.htm
>>>
>>> http://diagnosisp.com/dp/journals/view_pdf.php?journal_id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&article_id=148
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 3:03:45 AM UTC-7, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We were tossing around the idea of a DIY gene gun at BioCurious as well.
>>>> Sure, helium and gold particles may be more efficient, but I bet a hacked
>>>> bb gun and, say, magnetite particles may give at least some transformation
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use the
>>>> gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal samples:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jove.com/index/**details.stp?id=675<http://www.jove.com/index/details.stp?id=675>
>>
>>> Here's some more useful DIY info:
>>>
>>> http://thalamus.wustl.edu/nonetlab/ResourcesF/genegun/Genegun.htm
>>> http://dictybase.org/techniques/particle%20gun/particle_gun.htm
>>>
>>> http://diagnosisp.com/dp/journals/view_pdf.php?journal_id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&article_id=148
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 3:03:45 AM UTC-7, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We were tossing around the idea of a DIY gene gun at BioCurious as well.
>>>> Sure, helium and gold particles may be more efficient, but I bet a hacked
>>>> bb gun and, say, magnetite particles may give at least some transformation
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use the
>>>> gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal samples:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patrik
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:15:53 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle
>>>>> bombardement.
>>>>>
>>>>> They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide (widely
>>>>> available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
>>>>> Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be
>>>>> expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum
>>>>> pump.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the cells
>>>>> without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some pressure' ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm
>>>>> anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "DIYbio" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>>>> Patrik
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:15:53 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle
>>>>> bombardement.
>>>>>
>>>>> They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide (widely
>>>>> available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
>>>>> Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be
>>>>> expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum
>>>>> pump.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the cells
>>>>> without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some pressure' ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm
>>>>> anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "DIYbio" group.
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> diybio+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/uzJTC0fj9DMJ.
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/uzJTC0fj9DMJ.
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Andreas Sturm
Aug 28, 2012, 1:39:06 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Tungsten is "nearly" (very closely) as heavy as gold.
( I heard that criminals produce barren with >90% tungsten (in the core) and some gold around, and it gets confused with pure gold sometimes even by professionals )
Tungsten is way cheaper than gold. So it may be the way to go... Or is magnetite (iron is, definitely, but does it have the effects?) even more "much cheaper" than tungsten??
( I heard that criminals produce barren with >90% tungsten (in the core) and some gold around, and it gets confused with pure gold sometimes even by professionals )
Tungsten is way cheaper than gold. So it may be the way to go... Or is magnetite (iron is, definitely, but does it have the effects?) even more "much cheaper" than tungsten??
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/nhN46z8-BcMJ.
Nathan McCorkle
Aug 28, 2012, 1:52:00 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
you could also try magnetofection or magnetoporation... some term like that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetofection
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/nhN46z8-BcMJ.
Cathal Garvey
Aug 28, 2012, 2:33:33 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Magnetofection's article reads like an advert.
Also, if the article is to be believed, it sounds like it's more or less
100% based on chemical transformation, with the "magneto" part only
describing the means of concentrating the transforming material close to
the cells. The particles are otherwise just DNA coated in "proprietary
formulations", probably some blend of PEG and molecules with some
affinity for cell surface antigens.
On 28/08/12 18:52, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
> you could also try magnetofection or magnetoporation... some term like
> that...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetofection
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2012 2:35 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <pat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's a great find!
>>
>> I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle
>> composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert,
>> preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a
>> professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice.
>> That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
>>
>> I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how
>> to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to
>> make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder
>> I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as
>> gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it.
>> Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow
>> us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
>>
>> Patrik
>>
>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 8:38:46 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>
>>> I was thinking in investing into http://www.alibaba.com/**
>>> product-gs/226547546/Portable_**Gene_Gun.html<http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/226547546/Portable_Gene_Gun.html>this one. 300$ for one device.
>>>> http://dictybase.org/**techniques/particle%20gun/**particle_gun.htm<http://dictybase.org/techniques/particle%20gun/particle_gun.htm>
>>>> http://diagnosisp.com/dp/**journals/view_pdf.php?journal_**
>>>> id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&**article_id=148<http://diagnosisp.com/dp/journals/view_pdf.php?journal_id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&article_id=148>
>>>> googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/**
>>>> msg/diybio/-/uzJTC0fj9DMJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/uzJTC0fj9DMJ>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>>>> .
Also, if the article is to be believed, it sounds like it's more or less
100% based on chemical transformation, with the "magneto" part only
describing the means of concentrating the transforming material close to
the cells. The particles are otherwise just DNA coated in "proprietary
formulations", probably some blend of PEG and molecules with some
affinity for cell surface antigens.
On 28/08/12 18:52, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
> you could also try magnetofection or magnetoporation... some term like
> that...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetofection
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2012 2:35 PM, "Patrik D'haeseleer" <pat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's a great find!
>>
>> I think we'll just have to experiment a bit to find the right particle
>> composition. Obviously, you want something that is relatively inert,
>> preferably high density, and very small particle size. So for a
>> professional lab, gold or tungsten nanoparticles are an obvious choice.
>> That does *not* mean this is the only way to get it to work though!
>>
>> I brought up magnetite particles before, because I'd been looking into how
>> to make ferrofluid lately. It turns out there's a simple chemical route to
>> make magnetite nanoparticles that are way smaller than the magnetite powder
>> I had bought online in initially. And magnetite may not be as heavy as
>> gold, but I can tell you that jar of magnetite has some serious heft to it.
>> Probably worth a try. Plus, the magnetic nature of the particles may allow
>> us to manipulate them in ways you can't do with gold.
>>
>> Patrik
>>
>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 8:38:46 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>
>>> product-gs/226547546/Portable_**Gene_Gun.html<http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/226547546/Portable_Gene_Gun.html>this one. 300$ for one device.
>>>
>>>
>>> But if the particles are this expensive...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <pat...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's some more useful DIY info:
>>>>
>>>> http://thalamus.wustl.edu/**nonetlab/ResourcesF/genegun/**Genegun.htm<http://thalamus.wustl.edu/nonetlab/ResourcesF/genegun/Genegun.htm>
>>>
>>> But if the particles are this expensive...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <pat...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's some more useful DIY info:
>>>>
>>>> http://dictybase.org/**techniques/particle%20gun/**particle_gun.htm<http://dictybase.org/techniques/particle%20gun/particle_gun.htm>
>>>> http://diagnosisp.com/dp/**journals/view_pdf.php?journal_**
>>>> id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&**article_id=148<http://diagnosisp.com/dp/journals/view_pdf.php?journal_id=1&archive=0&issue_id=5&article_id=148>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 3:03:45 AM UTC-7, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We were tossing around the idea of a DIY gene gun at BioCurious as
>>>>> well. Sure, helium and gold particles may be more efficient, but I bet a
>>>>> hacked bb gun and, say, magnetite particles may give at least some
>>>>> transformation as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use
>>>>> the gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal
>>>>> samples:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jove.com/index/**deta**ils.stp?id=675<http://www.jove.com/index/details.stp?id=675>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, August 27, 2012 3:03:45 AM UTC-7, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We were tossing around the idea of a DIY gene gun at BioCurious as
>>>>> well. Sure, helium and gold particles may be more efficient, but I bet a
>>>>> hacked bb gun and, say, magnetite particles may give at least some
>>>>> transformation as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a great video on how to prepare DNA "bullets", and how to use
>>>>> the gene gun to transform a small selection of cells in live neuronal
>>>>> samples:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:15:53 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle
>>>>>> bombardement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide
>>>>>> (widely available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
>>>>>> Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be
>>>>>> expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum
>>>>>> pump.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the
>>>>>> cells without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some
>>>>>> pressure' ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm
>>>>>> anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "DIYbio" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@**
>>>>> Patrik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:15:53 AM UTC-7, Mega wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I 'm wondering how one could build such a device for particle
>>>>>> bombardement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They usually use Helium, but why not Nitrogen or Carbon dioxide
>>>>>> (widely available). I read they use low pressure, but what is low?
>>>>>> Does it have to be in a vakuum??? I can do this, but it will be
>>>>>> expensive and difficult to build the vakuum-tight casing and buy the vakuum
>>>>>> pump.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can there be too much pressure (so the particles fly through the
>>>>>> cells without leaving DNA)? Or can I configure it just using 'some
>>>>>> pressure' ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I have to look up the laws of my country, but as you cannot harm
>>>>>> anyone with this device, it shouldn't be an issue)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>>
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Nathan McCorkle
Aug 28, 2012, 2:39:55 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Magnetofection's article reads like an advert.
hmm, i don't see it that way
> Magnetofection's article reads like an advert.
>
> Also, if the article is to be believed, it sounds like it's more or less
> 100% based on chemical transformation, with the "magneto" part only
vectors (DNA, siRNA, ODN, virus, etc.) is achieved by salt-induced
colloidal aggregation and electrostatic interaction" then you apply an
electromagnetic field and the magnet:DNA complex rips into the cell.
More like electroporation or gene gun to me than chemical methods
Cathal Garvey
Aug 28, 2012, 5:23:17 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
I suppose if one were to apply a rapid AC field to the cells, it could
"shake" the nanoparticles through the membrane, but that field would
probably have to be strong enough that it's hard to distinguish it from
regular chemically assisted electroporation.
Still, I've never tried it. Maybe the efficiencies are indeed crazy high
and toxicities low, as it reads in the article.
"shake" the nanoparticles through the membrane, but that field would
probably have to be strong enough that it's hard to distinguish it from
regular chemically assisted electroporation.
Still, I've never tried it. Maybe the efficiencies are indeed crazy high
and toxicities low, as it reads in the article.
Nathan McCorkle
Aug 28, 2012, 5:57:26 PM8/28/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Its a magnetic field, not electric. The magnetic particles with DNA
bound are suspended evenly in the cell, and you apply a magnetic pulse
in one direction (I guess a changing field could work too). Think
magetic bead DNA separation kits, where you just place a magnet on the
side of a microfuge tube, now add some unexpecting cells to get in the
way, and quickly bring the strong magnet to the side of the tube...
some magnetic beads will rip through a cell all the way to make it to
the tube edge, some magnetic particles will get stuck mid-way through
the cell.
I heard a guy give a talk on microfluidics who used to work at Kodak,
and now is at SUNY Buffalo, he has done some of this magnetofection
stuff
http://www.cbe.buffalo.edu/people/full_time/e_furlani.php
bound are suspended evenly in the cell, and you apply a magnetic pulse
in one direction (I guess a changing field could work too). Think
magetic bead DNA separation kits, where you just place a magnet on the
side of a microfuge tube, now add some unexpecting cells to get in the
way, and quickly bring the strong magnet to the side of the tube...
some magnetic beads will rip through a cell all the way to make it to
the tube edge, some magnetic particles will get stuck mid-way through
the cell.
I heard a guy give a talk on microfluidics who used to work at Kodak,
and now is at SUNY Buffalo, he has done some of this magnetofection
stuff
http://www.cbe.buffalo.edu/people/full_time/e_furlani.php
Patrik D'haeseleer
Aug 29, 2012, 2:10:36 AM8/29/12
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:15:36 AM UTC-7, Cathal wrote:
Would magnetite not aggregate into lumps?
Yup - that's why the ferrofluid recipe uses oleic acid as a surfactant to keep the magnetite nanoparticles separated and suspended in the carrier oil. There's actually some water soluble ferrofluids as well, for use in some biomedical applications:
http://ferrofluid.ferrotec.com/products/ferrofluid/emg/water/
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