Fwd: [tt] Geneticists Discover a Way to Extend Lifespans to 800 Years
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Michael Turner
Jan 29, 2013, 11:06:58 AM1/29/13
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I've been following Valter Longo's work on fasting as a way to reduce
chemotherapy side effects while improving its effectiveness. His work
in that area was an outgrowth of his longevity research, including the
effects to calorie restriction.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugen Leitl <eu...@leitl.org>
Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:48 PM
Subject: [tt] Geneticists Discover a Way to Extend Lifespans to 800 Years
To: t...@postbiota.org, bio...@postbiota.org
http://io9.com/345728/geneticists-discover-a-way-to-extend-lifespans-to-800-%20years
Geneticists Discover a Way to Extend Lifespans to 800 Years
There is now a way to extend the lifespan of organisms so that humans could
conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
the lifespan of yeast bacteria tenfold — and the recipe they used to do it
might easily translate into humans. It involves tinkering with two genes, and
cutting down your calorie intake. Tests have already started on people in
Ecuador.
According to an announcement from PLoS Genetics:
Researchers have created baker's yeast capable of living to 800 in yeast
years without apparent side effects. The basic but important discovery,
achieved through a combination of dietary and genetic changes, brings
scientists closer to controlling the survival and health of the unit of all
living systems: the cell. "We're setting the foundation for reprogramming
healthy life," says study leader Valter Longo of the University of Southern
California.
Longo's group put baker's yeast on a calorie-restricted diet and knocked out
two genes - RAS2 and SCH9 - that promote aging in yeast and cancer in humans.
"We got a 10-fold life span extension that is, I think, the longest one that
has ever been achieved in any organism," Longo says. Normal yeast organisms
live about a week.
"I would say 10-fold is pretty significant," says Anna McCormick, chief of
the genetics and cell biology branch at the National Institute on Aging (NIA)
and Longo's program officer. The NIA funds such research in the hope of
extending healthy life span in humans through the development of drugs that
mimic the life-prolonging techniques used by Longo and others, McCormick
adds.
Baker's yeast is one of the most studied and best understood organisms at the
molecular and genetic level. Remarkably, in light of its simplicity, yeast
has led to the discovery of some of the most important genes and pathways
regulating aging and disease in mice and other mammals.
Longo's group next plans to further investigate life span extension in mice.
The group is already studying a human population in Ecuador with mutations
analogous to those described in yeast.
"People with two copies of the mutations have very small stature and other
defects," Longo says. "We are now identifying the relatives with only one
copy of the mutation, who are apparently normal. We hope that they will show
a reduced incidence of diseases and an extended life span."
Longo cautions that, as in the Ecuador case, longevity mutations tend to come
with severe growth deficits and other health problems. Finding drugs to
extend the human life span without side effects will not be easy.
I've always been a skeptic when it comes to life-extending research, but this
has me rethinking my position.
Lifespan Extension [PLoS Genetics]
Free full text at:
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0040013
Life Span Extension by Calorie Restriction Depends on Rim15 and Transcription
Factors Downstream of Ras/PKA, Tor, and Sch9 Min Wei equal contributor,
Paola Fabrizio equal contributor,
Jia Hu,
Huanying Ge,
Chao Cheng,
Lei Li,
Valter D Longo mail
Abstract
Calorie restriction (CR), the only non-genetic intervention known to slow
aging and extend life span in organisms ranging from yeast to mice, has been
linked to the down-regulation of Tor, Akt, and Ras signaling. In this study,
we demonstrate that the serine/threonine kinase Rim15 is required for yeast
chronological life span extension caused by deficiencies in Ras2, Tor1, and
Sch9, and by calorie restriction. Deletion of stress resistance transcription
factors Gis1 and Msn2/4, which are positively regulated by Rim15, also caused
a major although not complete reversion of the effect of calorie restriction
on life span. The deletion of both RAS2 and the Akt and S6 kinase homolog
SCH9 in combination with calorie restriction caused a remarkable 10-fold life
span extension, which, surprisingly, was only partially reversed by the lack
of Rim15. These results indicate that the Ras/cAMP/PKA/Rim15/Msn2/4 and the
Tor/Sch9/Rim15/Gis1 pathways are major mediators of the calorie
restriction-dependent stress resistance and life span extension, although
additional mediators are involved. Notably, the anti-aging effect caused by
the inactivation of both pathways is much more potent than that caused by CR.
_______________________________________________
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--
Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
tur...@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/
"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
chemotherapy side effects while improving its effectiveness. His work
in that area was an outgrowth of his longevity research, including the
effects to calorie restriction.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugen Leitl <eu...@leitl.org>
Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:48 PM
Subject: [tt] Geneticists Discover a Way to Extend Lifespans to 800 Years
To: t...@postbiota.org, bio...@postbiota.org
http://io9.com/345728/geneticists-discover-a-way-to-extend-lifespans-to-800-%20years
Geneticists Discover a Way to Extend Lifespans to 800 Years
There is now a way to extend the lifespan of organisms so that humans could
conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
the lifespan of yeast bacteria tenfold — and the recipe they used to do it
might easily translate into humans. It involves tinkering with two genes, and
cutting down your calorie intake. Tests have already started on people in
Ecuador.
According to an announcement from PLoS Genetics:
Researchers have created baker's yeast capable of living to 800 in yeast
years without apparent side effects. The basic but important discovery,
achieved through a combination of dietary and genetic changes, brings
scientists closer to controlling the survival and health of the unit of all
living systems: the cell. "We're setting the foundation for reprogramming
healthy life," says study leader Valter Longo of the University of Southern
California.
Longo's group put baker's yeast on a calorie-restricted diet and knocked out
two genes - RAS2 and SCH9 - that promote aging in yeast and cancer in humans.
"We got a 10-fold life span extension that is, I think, the longest one that
has ever been achieved in any organism," Longo says. Normal yeast organisms
live about a week.
"I would say 10-fold is pretty significant," says Anna McCormick, chief of
the genetics and cell biology branch at the National Institute on Aging (NIA)
and Longo's program officer. The NIA funds such research in the hope of
extending healthy life span in humans through the development of drugs that
mimic the life-prolonging techniques used by Longo and others, McCormick
adds.
Baker's yeast is one of the most studied and best understood organisms at the
molecular and genetic level. Remarkably, in light of its simplicity, yeast
has led to the discovery of some of the most important genes and pathways
regulating aging and disease in mice and other mammals.
Longo's group next plans to further investigate life span extension in mice.
The group is already studying a human population in Ecuador with mutations
analogous to those described in yeast.
"People with two copies of the mutations have very small stature and other
defects," Longo says. "We are now identifying the relatives with only one
copy of the mutation, who are apparently normal. We hope that they will show
a reduced incidence of diseases and an extended life span."
Longo cautions that, as in the Ecuador case, longevity mutations tend to come
with severe growth deficits and other health problems. Finding drugs to
extend the human life span without side effects will not be easy.
I've always been a skeptic when it comes to life-extending research, but this
has me rethinking my position.
Lifespan Extension [PLoS Genetics]
Free full text at:
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0040013
Life Span Extension by Calorie Restriction Depends on Rim15 and Transcription
Factors Downstream of Ras/PKA, Tor, and Sch9 Min Wei equal contributor,
Paola Fabrizio equal contributor,
Jia Hu,
Huanying Ge,
Chao Cheng,
Lei Li,
Valter D Longo mail
Abstract
Calorie restriction (CR), the only non-genetic intervention known to slow
aging and extend life span in organisms ranging from yeast to mice, has been
linked to the down-regulation of Tor, Akt, and Ras signaling. In this study,
we demonstrate that the serine/threonine kinase Rim15 is required for yeast
chronological life span extension caused by deficiencies in Ras2, Tor1, and
Sch9, and by calorie restriction. Deletion of stress resistance transcription
factors Gis1 and Msn2/4, which are positively regulated by Rim15, also caused
a major although not complete reversion of the effect of calorie restriction
on life span. The deletion of both RAS2 and the Akt and S6 kinase homolog
SCH9 in combination with calorie restriction caused a remarkable 10-fold life
span extension, which, surprisingly, was only partially reversed by the lack
of Rim15. These results indicate that the Ras/cAMP/PKA/Rim15/Msn2/4 and the
Tor/Sch9/Rim15/Gis1 pathways are major mediators of the calorie
restriction-dependent stress resistance and life span extension, although
additional mediators are involved. Notably, the anti-aging effect caused by
the inactivation of both pathways is much more potent than that caused by CR.
_______________________________________________
tt mailing list
t...@postbiota.org
http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/tt
--
Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
tur...@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/
"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Jeswin
Jan 29, 2013, 11:29:40 AM1/29/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Michael Turner
<michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been following Valter Longo's work on fasting as a way to reduce
>
<michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been following Valter Longo's work on fasting as a way to reduce
>
> There is now a way to extend the lifespan of organisms so that humans could
> conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
> at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
> the lifespan of yeast bacteria tenfold — and the recipe they used to do it
> might easily translate into humans. It involves tinkering with two genes, and
> cutting down your calorie intake. Tests have already started on people in
> Ecuador.
>
How did they come up with the number 800? And how would you simulate
> conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
> at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
> the lifespan of yeast bacteria tenfold — and the recipe they used to do it
> might easily translate into humans. It involves tinkering with two genes, and
> cutting down your calorie intake. Tests have already started on people in
> Ecuador.
>
that? A computer simulation or was it by extrapolation?
How difficult is it to adapt the idea from yeast to complex mammalian
machinery?
Nothing lasts 800 years, unless its a rock or maybe a tree. Things
wear out. But I guess this is for trillionaires.
Cathal Garvey
Jan 29, 2013, 11:35:20 AM1/29/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
The thing that always bothers me about these headlines is that, while
you could probably create a human being that could hypothetically live
to 800 by replacing senescent cells as they age, and forestalling cancer
while initiating radical bodily repair.. what about the neurons that
carry the person's identity? They are exceptional in that they do not
get replaced, or "turned over", to the same extent as the rest of the body.
There is probably no natural way to, ah, 'automate' the process of
reinforcing a memory against the replacement of its constituent neurons.
One could probably learn memory-redundancy techniques to reinforce the
memories that one wishes to last 800 years, but that's not really how
memory works. Over time, the associative links that make memory
remarkable would wear out as connecting neurons die, leaving isolated
memory-islands retained by practice and meditation, without any triggers
or contexts to make them relevant or even 'authentic'.
So, without exogenous technology to account for this (brain:computer
interfaces to provide a long-term memory bulwark), I'm not convinced
genetics or drugs can provide a genuine immortal, merely a regenerative
shell whose identity and sense of self resets every century or so.
On 29/01/13 16:29, Jeswin wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Michael Turner
> <michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been following Valter Longo's work on fasting as a way to reduce
>>
>> There is now a way to extend the lifespan of organisms so that humans could
>> conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
>> at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
>> the lifespan of yeast bacteria tenfold � and the recipe they used to do it
you could probably create a human being that could hypothetically live
to 800 by replacing senescent cells as they age, and forestalling cancer
while initiating radical bodily repair.. what about the neurons that
carry the person's identity? They are exceptional in that they do not
get replaced, or "turned over", to the same extent as the rest of the body.
There is probably no natural way to, ah, 'automate' the process of
reinforcing a memory against the replacement of its constituent neurons.
One could probably learn memory-redundancy techniques to reinforce the
memories that one wishes to last 800 years, but that's not really how
memory works. Over time, the associative links that make memory
remarkable would wear out as connecting neurons die, leaving isolated
memory-islands retained by practice and meditation, without any triggers
or contexts to make them relevant or even 'authentic'.
So, without exogenous technology to account for this (brain:computer
interfaces to provide a long-term memory bulwark), I'm not convinced
genetics or drugs can provide a genuine immortal, merely a regenerative
shell whose identity and sense of self resets every century or so.
On 29/01/13 16:29, Jeswin wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Michael Turner
> <michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been following Valter Longo's work on fasting as a way to reduce
>>
>> There is now a way to extend the lifespan of organisms so that humans could
>> conceivably live to be 800 years old. In an amazing development, scientists
>> at the University of Southern California have announced that they've extended
Nathan McCorkle
Jan 29, 2013, 1:18:42 PM1/29/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Cathal Garvey
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> One could probably learn memory-redundancy techniques to reinforce the
> memories that one wishes to last 800 years, but that's not really how
> memory works. Over time, the associative links that make memory
> remarkable would wear out as connecting neurons die, leaving isolated
> memory-islands retained by practice and meditation, without any triggers
> or contexts to make them relevant or even 'authentic'.
>
> So, without exogenous technology to account for this (brain:computer
> interfaces to provide a long-term memory bulwark), I'm not convinced
> genetics or drugs can provide a genuine immortal, merely a regenerative
> shell whose identity and sense of self resets every century or so.
That doesn't really sound bad, as long as it wasn't like amnesia.
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> One could probably learn memory-redundancy techniques to reinforce the
> memories that one wishes to last 800 years, but that's not really how
> memory works. Over time, the associative links that make memory
> remarkable would wear out as connecting neurons die, leaving isolated
> memory-islands retained by practice and meditation, without any triggers
> or contexts to make them relevant or even 'authentic'.
>
> So, without exogenous technology to account for this (brain:computer
> interfaces to provide a long-term memory bulwark), I'm not convinced
> genetics or drugs can provide a genuine immortal, merely a regenerative
> shell whose identity and sense of self resets every century or so.
Maybe the neuron could regenerate when the associated memory was
'forgotten'... how to shift memories from one location to another
without is a good question though.
Cathal Garvey
Jan 29, 2013, 1:43:45 PM1/29/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
I disagree. Memory without context is pretty empty. When was the last
time a stock photograph moved you? Because without context or connection
to the broader context of your human experience, a force-memorised old
memory would feel like a stock photograph, if you ask me.
Memories are remarkable because they can be triggered by tangential
things, and because when they are remembered they activate feelings,
associations and thoughts that bear some neural link to them.
Outside the realm of fuzzy feelings, the disconnection of memories from
their context would have serious ramifications for continued ability to
create. Inspiration is hard to pin down, but at least a little bit of
inspiration and creativity comes from the recall of loosely related
memories in response to a present challenge or stimulus.
Without context, older memories would probably be inaccessible to this
process of "wildcard recall"; what would this mean for Methuselahs of
the future? Would they succumb to the stereotypical stasis of ancient
fictional characters like the vampires in Anne Rice's novels?
time a stock photograph moved you? Because without context or connection
to the broader context of your human experience, a force-memorised old
memory would feel like a stock photograph, if you ask me.
Memories are remarkable because they can be triggered by tangential
things, and because when they are remembered they activate feelings,
associations and thoughts that bear some neural link to them.
Outside the realm of fuzzy feelings, the disconnection of memories from
their context would have serious ramifications for continued ability to
create. Inspiration is hard to pin down, but at least a little bit of
inspiration and creativity comes from the recall of loosely related
memories in response to a present challenge or stimulus.
Without context, older memories would probably be inaccessible to this
process of "wildcard recall"; what would this mean for Methuselahs of
the future? Would they succumb to the stereotypical stasis of ancient
fictional characters like the vampires in Anne Rice's novels?
Patrik D'haeseleer
Jan 29, 2013, 2:21:05 PM1/29/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
What a completely BOGUS headline!
They found (yet another) way to increase the lifespan of a simple unicellular organism in stationary phase, therefore humans will start living to 800 tomorrow? Utter hogwash!!
We've known for years about various ways to extend yeast life span in stationary phase by 2-3 fold. Yet I don't see humans living to 240 any time soon.
Oh, and if you keep yeast cells growing exponentially, they have an essentially unlimited lifespan, because they keep rejuvenating themselves by fission. Therefore the secret to immortality is cancer, right?
Gah - how do people keep falling for this crap. It's like doing science by a game of Telephone.
Patrik
They found (yet another) way to increase the lifespan of a simple unicellular organism in stationary phase, therefore humans will start living to 800 tomorrow? Utter hogwash!!
We've known for years about various ways to extend yeast life span in stationary phase by 2-3 fold. Yet I don't see humans living to 240 any time soon.
Oh, and if you keep yeast cells growing exponentially, they have an essentially unlimited lifespan, because they keep rejuvenating themselves by fission. Therefore the secret to immortality is cancer, right?
Gah - how do people keep falling for this crap. It's like doing science by a game of Telephone.
Patrik
Michael Turner
Jan 30, 2013, 4:31:00 AM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:21 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer <pat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What a completely BOGUS headline!
I love those too. I should have added the disclaimer -- "I take no
> What a completely BOGUS headline!
responsibility for the headline used for this story. For that matter,
the journalist who wrote the story is probably cringing under his
desk, afraid to look at his e-mail inbox or at the comment threads,
because of what the editor did to his original headline."
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Eugen Leitl
Jan 30, 2013, 9:47:07 AM1/30/13
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On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 06:43:45PM +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> Without context, older memories would probably be inaccessible to this
> process of "wildcard recall"; what would this mean for Methuselahs of
> the future? Would they succumb to the stereotypical stasis of ancient
> fictional characters like the vampires in Anne Rice's novels?
If you have enough control at molecular scale to halt and reverse
> Without context, older memories would probably be inaccessible to this
> process of "wildcard recall"; what would this mean for Methuselahs of
> the future? Would they succumb to the stereotypical stasis of ancient
> fictional characters like the vampires in Anne Rice's novels?
senescence or use vitrified patients in the dewar as blueprints
who would want to keep wearing that stupid man suit longer than
necessary?
Humanity as is is far from being optimal. It's just a passing phase.
Cathal Garvey
Jan 30, 2013, 10:43:46 AM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
I'm neither for or against post-humanism as a goal for some, but I
personally value the integration of my mind and body. I can forsee
technologies that extend my lifespan, and I can forsee others that
augment the limitations of biology that will not yet have been
surmounted: I'd like to leverage these to live, as a human, for as long
as I'm comfortable and productive. Perhaps afterwards, in our sing-song
imaginary post-scarcity future, I'd consider uploading.
For now though, we were griping about limitations on achieving a
human-body lifespan in excess of ~120 years or so. My basic point was
that I think it's certainly possible to create a body that regenerates
indefinitely, but that certain parts of humanity require an unchanging
element, such as a dependably constant neural network.
You could probably engineer neurons that carefully supplant themselves
over time, perhaps by asymmetric cell division to create an embryonic
neuron within an existing one, which grows and branches to fill out the
existing space before the mother cell undergoes apoptosis completely.
This would be wholly unnatural, and would therefore require a bucketload
of incredibly complex work, but it's the only avenue for
persistence-of-brain that I can currently think of that doesn't involve
simulation/uploading of dying matter.
personally value the integration of my mind and body. I can forsee
technologies that extend my lifespan, and I can forsee others that
augment the limitations of biology that will not yet have been
surmounted: I'd like to leverage these to live, as a human, for as long
as I'm comfortable and productive. Perhaps afterwards, in our sing-song
imaginary post-scarcity future, I'd consider uploading.
For now though, we were griping about limitations on achieving a
human-body lifespan in excess of ~120 years or so. My basic point was
that I think it's certainly possible to create a body that regenerates
indefinitely, but that certain parts of humanity require an unchanging
element, such as a dependably constant neural network.
You could probably engineer neurons that carefully supplant themselves
over time, perhaps by asymmetric cell division to create an embryonic
neuron within an existing one, which grows and branches to fill out the
existing space before the mother cell undergoes apoptosis completely.
This would be wholly unnatural, and would therefore require a bucketload
of incredibly complex work, but it's the only avenue for
persistence-of-brain that I can currently think of that doesn't involve
simulation/uploading of dying matter.
Michael Turner
Jan 30, 2013, 10:48:01 AM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
deserves; I wouldn't know.)
So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
tur...@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/
"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
deserves; I wouldn't know.)
So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
tur...@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/
"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
> --
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Cathal Garvey
Jan 30, 2013, 11:06:50 AM1/30/13
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In one sense, I would say 'yes': Senescence is complicated, and
sometimes a deliberate trait, but much of senescence in multicellular
organisms comes down to processes that are common to all cells,
single-or-multicellular, such as mitochondrial maintenance and telomere
extension.
Sometimes, there's a clear disconnect, where a thing is easy to achieve
safely in single cells to extend "lifespan" but not in multicellular
organisms. For example, single-celled organisms don't have a Hayflick
Limit, because that would be stupid; they keep their Telomeres nice and
long, thank you. However, multicellular organisms do have a Hayflick
Limit because it is one of many strategies to prevent cancer; borrowing
this "trait" from single-celled organisms would be a bad move, unless
strict controls could be implemented to prevent cancer or deactivate the
telomere elongation system if needed.
The article discusses genes that play a role in cell cycles etc.: while
this isn't directly likely to be relevant, it will nevertheless feed
into our understanding of how cells grow, replicate and age, and will
therefore have some relevance to human ageing. But it's definitely not
as simple as "if we knock these out, we'll live forever!", so the
headline is definitely a case of rogue-editorialism.
On 30/01/13 15:48, Michael Turner wrote:
> Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
> thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
> tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
> spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
> experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
> line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
> deserves; I wouldn't know.)
>
> So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
>
> Regards,
> Michael Turner
> Project Persephone
> 1-25-33 Takadanobaba
> Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
> (+81) 90-5203-8682
> tur...@projectpersephone.org
> http://www.projectpersephone.org/
>
> "Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
> together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exup�ry
sometimes a deliberate trait, but much of senescence in multicellular
organisms comes down to processes that are common to all cells,
single-or-multicellular, such as mitochondrial maintenance and telomere
extension.
Sometimes, there's a clear disconnect, where a thing is easy to achieve
safely in single cells to extend "lifespan" but not in multicellular
organisms. For example, single-celled organisms don't have a Hayflick
Limit, because that would be stupid; they keep their Telomeres nice and
long, thank you. However, multicellular organisms do have a Hayflick
Limit because it is one of many strategies to prevent cancer; borrowing
this "trait" from single-celled organisms would be a bad move, unless
strict controls could be implemented to prevent cancer or deactivate the
telomere elongation system if needed.
The article discusses genes that play a role in cell cycles etc.: while
this isn't directly likely to be relevant, it will nevertheless feed
into our understanding of how cells grow, replicate and age, and will
therefore have some relevance to human ageing. But it's definitely not
as simple as "if we knock these out, we'll live forever!", so the
headline is definitely a case of rogue-editorialism.
On 30/01/13 15:48, Michael Turner wrote:
> Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
> thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
> tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
> spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
> experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
> line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
> deserves; I wouldn't know.)
>
> So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
>
> Regards,
> Michael Turner
> Project Persephone
> 1-25-33 Takadanobaba
> Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
> (+81) 90-5203-8682
> tur...@projectpersephone.org
> http://www.projectpersephone.org/
>
> "Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
Eugen Leitl
Jan 30, 2013, 11:34:48 AM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 03:43:46PM +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> I'm neither for or against post-humanism as a goal for some, but I
> personally value the integration of my mind and body. I can forsee
> technologies that extend my lifespan, and I can forsee others that
> augment the limitations of biology that will not yet have been
> surmounted: I'd like to leverage these to live, as a human, for as long
> as I'm comfortable and productive. Perhaps afterwards, in our sing-song
> imaginary post-scarcity future, I'd consider uploading.
I agree. So far, approaches like SENS and cryopreservation are our
> I'm neither for or against post-humanism as a goal for some, but I
> personally value the integration of my mind and body. I can forsee
> technologies that extend my lifespan, and I can forsee others that
> augment the limitations of biology that will not yet have been
> surmounted: I'd like to leverage these to live, as a human, for as long
> as I'm comfortable and productive. Perhaps afterwards, in our sing-song
> imaginary post-scarcity future, I'd consider uploading.
only options.
> For now though, we were griping about limitations on achieving a
> human-body lifespan in excess of ~120 years or so. My basic point was
(but all in reasonably good health, so you're not emulating
Smeagol there).
> that I think it's certainly possible to create a body that regenerates
> indefinitely, but that certain parts of humanity require an unchanging
> element, such as a dependably constant neural network.
with biology alone the actual limits of humanity wouldn't show up
for several hundred of years if not kiloyears. At such time scales
the human condition will have moved on, obviously so you will
be unlikely to run into resource exhaustion limits of biology.
> You could probably engineer neurons that carefully supplant themselves
> over time, perhaps by asymmetric cell division to create an embryonic
> neuron within an existing one, which grows and branches to fill out the
> existing space before the mother cell undergoes apoptosis completely.
will lose fidelity over time, so your oldest memories will degrade.
This is something we constantly deal with today, so I don't think
it's much of a limitation.
> This would be wholly unnatural, and would therefore require a bucketload
> of incredibly complex work, but it's the only avenue for
people with ambitions in that direction contact them, and figure out how
they can help.
But, realistically, most of us who read this won't be able to profit
from any of these advances, if any.
Eugen Leitl
Jan 30, 2013, 11:50:34 AM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:48:01AM +0900, Michael Turner wrote:
> Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
> thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
> tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
> spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
> experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
> line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
> deserves; I wouldn't know.)
>
> So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
I very much hope so. In fact, DYIbio could make a palpable
> Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
> thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
> tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
> spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
> experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
> line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
> deserves; I wouldn't know.)
>
> So, in that (belated) spirit: IS something like that possible?
difference with projects like (see particularly the last
paragraph):
http://sens.org/outreach/take-action
Take Action
SENS Research Foundation is the world's leading charity dedicated
to advancing the development of rejuvenation biotechnologies for
the diseases and disabilities of aging. We encourage you to join
us in our work. There are many ways you can get involved with our mission.
We need to raise money to support the work of our own Research
Center, as well as the extra-mural projects we sponsor in
laboratories around the world - and to help train the student
researchers who will go on to lead similar teams in the years to come.
We're tightly focused on getting the greatest possible value from
all the donations we receive, but pioneering biomedical research
is unavoidably expensive. Any contribution makes a difference to
our work, which is funded entirely by the public. Please give
generously to help us lead the fight against aging-related disease.
Although a donation is the most direct way to help, many of our
supporters are able to contribute in other ways - whether it's
by conducting research, lobbying policy makers, or simply by
raising awareness that illness and disability need not be an
inevitable part of growing old. You can also contribute your
time and talents as a volunteer.
jlund256
Jan 30, 2013, 1:14:20 PM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
The research studies in the paper likely cost a few thousand dollars or less in supplies, and took a year or two of work in the lab. So it could be replicated in a DIYbio lab. Or someone could try a variation on the experiments described in the paper.
In terms of equipment, it requires being set up for basic molecular biology--PCR, gel electrophoresis, autoclave, balance, a few water baths and dry incubators. The only special equipement would be a microscope set up for yeast tetrad dissection. The lab strains of yeast are available, and gene knockout in yeast is easier than in any other organism.
Jim Lund
Patrik D'haeseleer
Jan 30, 2013, 11:46:03 PM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:48:01 AM UTC-8, Michael Turner wrote:
Um ... I don't mean to intrude on what might be a most excellent
thread that goes off on any number of fascinating speculative
tangents, but my original intention in forwarding this article was to
spur some technical discussion about whether synthetic biology
experimentation on microbes at DIYbio scale could contribute to this
line of research (or nip it in the bud, if that's what it actually
deserves; I wouldn't know.)
Sure! Synthetic biology experimentation on microbes can definitely be used to study lifespan in microbes in stationary phase.
I wouldn't expect much if any of that to be relevant to lifespan of multicellular organisms though, let alone for something as many orders of complexity higher as a human.
Nathan McCorkle
Jan 30, 2013, 11:56:37 PM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Does this mean beer/EtOH will get cheaper?
Patrik D'haeseleer
Jan 30, 2013, 11:57:15 PM1/30/13
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Not that those couldn't be great experiments in themselves, of course. Studying senescence of microbes in stationary phase is really cool fundamental science that may wind up having interesting unforeseen applications.
But expecting this kind of research to be on a direct path towards increasing human lifespan is similar to expecting that research in doubling the growth rate of neuronal progenitor cells will directly lead to humans with an IQ of 200. Actually, at least in the latter case you don't even have to extrapolate from yeast to humans...
Patrik
But expecting this kind of research to be on a direct path towards increasing human lifespan is similar to expecting that research in doubling the growth rate of neuronal progenitor cells will directly lead to humans with an IQ of 200. Actually, at least in the latter case you don't even have to extrapolate from yeast to humans...
Patrik
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