Utility costs with 24/7 access

[Cody Sullivan]

Forgive me if this has already been asked. I searched the forum, but couldn't find anything. For those who offer 24/7 access, does it affect your utility bills much? I just imagine having one person stay really late and running the AC for another 6 hours or so. I know most people don't take advantage of 24/7 access even if they want it... nonetheless, I'm curious if it makes a noticeable difference to bills.

[Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!]

We run 24/7 and I can't say I notice much.  AC doesn't run much at all once the sun goes down regardless if there is someone in the space.  If you are too worried about it, install a programmable thermostat to regulate the temp after hours.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

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[Jerome Chang]

Please keep in mind that no matter how hot or cold it might be, you need to keep the fans on or the air will be stale [and inhumane]...unless you happen to have windows and/or great natural circulation.

Jerome

______________

BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)

On Jul 20, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet! wrote:

We run 24/7 and I can't say I notice much.  AC doesn't run much at all once the sun goes down regardless if there is someone in the space.  If you are too worried about it, install a programmable thermostat to regulate the temp after hours.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

Join Us on Facebook!

 

<image001.png>

 

From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cody Sullivan
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:04 PM
To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Coworking] Utility costs with 24/7 access

 

Forgive me if this has already been asked. I searched the forum, but couldn't find anything. For those who offer 24/7 access, does it affect your utility bills much? I just imagine having one person stay really late and running the AC for another 6 hours or so. I know most people don't take advantage of 24/7 access even if they want it... nonetheless, I'm curious if it makes a noticeable difference to bills.

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[Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!]

Jerome- Good point.  I guess what I was trying to say is that other than it running to keep a stable temp, I have never had someone crank up the air at 10p because they were hot, regardless of the temp outside.  72-74 degrees feels pretty good in the summer when you are working late at night, just as it does when you are working at 2p.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

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[Jerome Chang]

Yes and if you're in a class A building, they often charge more for running HVAC after hours and weekends....sometimes $50-$150/hr!!!

Jerome

______________

BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)

On Jul 20, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet! wrote:

Jerome- Good point.  I guess what I was trying to say is that other than it running to keep a stable temp, I have never had someone crank up the air at 10p because they were hot, regardless of the temp outside.  72-74 degrees feels pretty good in the summer when you are working late at night, just as it does when you are working at 2p.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

Join Us on Facebook!

 

<image001.png>

[Cody Sullivan]

We have the whole building, which isn't too big (2,500 sq ft), and it has good ventilation. We have decided to scale-up to 24 hour access if there's a big enough demand. I do notice a lot of coworking spaces offer 24/7 access though. So, I'm wondering if this amenity really helps pull in new members. I'm also curious how often members take advantage of it and whether it significantly increases utility bills. Thanks for the feedback so far!

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[Tom Brandt]

Our members like 24/7 access. Not that many use it, we have only 3 or 4 night owls, but others will come in at odd hours or on weekends if they have a big project they are working on or some crisis blew up at one of their clients and they need a place away from home to deal with it.

This may seem funny, but because we are right downtown, members who are taking advantage of Ann Arbor nightlife will drop by to use our clean bathroom.

Our utility bills are part of the rent - we don't pay them directly. Our landlord has not complained, so I guess he is not seeing a significant increase in utility costs.

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[Alex Hillman]

I guess it's worth asking what your non 24/7 costs are before being able to provide a useful answer to this question :)

As an aside, 24/7 is something that a lot of people think they want, but actual utilization varies dramatically so any answer here will be a "your milage may vary" kind of answer. 

The key thing for a lot of people turns to be the "ability" to choose work whenever they want, even if they don't take advantage of it often. A lot of startup-focused spaces seem to offer 24/7 access (my guess is because that's one of the points of pride of startup culture), but almost every non-startup-focused coworking space I've visited started clearing out at more natural business hours. 

So it really comes down to your people. Are people asking for 24/7, or are you creating an option for a theoretical member who you haven't found yet?

We've opted to make 24/7 access an option ONLY for full time members, and only once they're able to let themselves into the space (which is after a 30 day waiting period and with 3 sign-offs from existing key holding members to verify trust). This lets us avoid paying staff to be here when nobody is here (or when just a few people are here, which is the majority of nights and weekends).

For the members who are interested in evening hours because they have full time jobs, we offer one night a week "night owls" that's staffed by a team of volunteer members. 

One more point on the "cost" of 24/7 access - before implementing some of the steps we have to get keys, we had some people who got full time memberships *just* to work from the space nights and weekends. This opened the door for the kind of "renters" that Trek talks about in this post:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/coworking/Minn_6q6K9M/PJ9YJ-D92H4J

"Coming in and not saying hello or always keeping your headphones on is just as much underpayment as a bounced check or declined credit card."

If you're offering 24/7 access in a way that members can avoid other members and simply get a cheap desk, consider the ripple effects of this kind of non-participation on your community and what you can do to discourage it while still offering 24/7 access.

-Alex

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indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

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[Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!]

Chiming in one more time here to give some info on how our members view 24-7 access.

 

I would agree with Alex.  We are a 24/7 operation in that we have keycode access for members after our normal hours of 8a-5p, M-F.  Many members perceive this as a HUGE win for them, but not many use it all that often.  To date I have 1 member in at least once a week after 8p for conference calls overseas and another that uses our conference rooms 1-2 month for 6p or 7p meetings.  A few others will work past 5p a couple times a month for an hour or two, but I only have one that consistently works 3-5 hrs later than the usual 8-5.  I have a few early risers who get in prior to 7a.  If we were 8a-5p a few would just adjust, 2 would complain... the rest likely wouldn't notice.  Weekends would be a different story.

 

The key here is we have not, and have no intention of staffing the space while they are here, nor opening it up to the general public/drop-ins.  The only ones with keycodes are members in good standing, and for the ones I am iffy on when they pay their first month I conveniently delay setting up a code with them until they spend some time in the space.  We have never had an issue with theft, after hours messes, or AC/Heat blasting when I come in the morning.  But again, we only allow this for members.

 

If you have members who absolutely need it, I think it is possible to do without much trouble.  If not, go without for a while and you can always grow into it.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

Join Us on Facebook!

 

 

From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hillman
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:48 AM
To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Coworking] Utility costs with 24/7 access

 

I guess it's worth asking what your non 24/7 costs are before being able to provide a useful answer to this question :)

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[Craig Baute - Creative Density Coworking]

After 11 months of having set hours, Creative Density went 24/7 about 3 months ago. The utilities bills have not changed significantly ($10 to $20 more in 3500 sq. ft. building) because members are pretty considerate and don't turn on the AC if it just them in the building. Remember: People are awesome and will respect your expenses.

I would take Alex and others mention of 24/7 access as a security percussion seriously. We only let the top tier of members have a 24/7 code and a level of trust is established. Don't worry about utilities so much, worry about security and your own piece of mind first.

Craig

Creative Density

[Jerome Chang]

I think that those spaces that are so community-oriented as to operate like a co-op, passing out keys or even the more modern card swipe method works well.

However, if those of you who have some pretty valuable furniture and equipment, and/or operate your space less like a co-op, I would NOT recommend providing after-hours access for that small % of people who say they need that access, but rarely actually do use that after-hours access.  The % is too small to warrant the potential theft that could occur.  No amount of video surveillance and security is going to help you BEFORE an incident - only afterwards...especially if your space is relatively accessible to the public, like if it's on the ground floor or similar.

Besides, this is one tough scenario to underwrite into your insurance, or your assurance to other members: if an incident happens after hours, who will be fully responsible if that member is not an employee?  Who will be in charge to call 911, accost an intruder, etc.?  Do you really want anyone but a trained staff person to deal with this?

Jerome

______________

BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)

On Jul 23, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet! wrote:

Chiming in one more time here to give some info on how our members view 24-7 access.

 

I would agree with Alex.  We are a 24/7 operation in that we have keycode access for members after our normal hours of 8a-5p, M-F.  Many members perceive this as a HUGE win for them, but not many use it all that often.  To date I have 1 member in at least once a week after 8p for conference calls overseas and another that uses our conference rooms 1-2 month for 6p or 7p meetings.  A few others will work past 5p a couple times a month for an hour or two, but I only have one that consistently works 3-5 hrs later than the usual 8-5.  I have a few early risers who get in prior to 7a.  If we were 8a-5p a few would just adjust, 2 would complain... the rest likely wouldn't notice.  Weekends would be a different story.

 

The key here is we have not, and have no intention of staffing the space while they are here, nor opening it up to the general public/drop-ins.  The only ones with keycodes are members in good standing, and for the ones I am iffy on when they pay their first month I conveniently delay setting up a code with them until they spend some time in the space.  We have never had an issue with theft, after hours messes, or AC/Heat blasting when I come in the morning.  But again, we only allow this for members.

 

If you have members who absolutely need it, I think it is possible to do without much trouble.  If not, go without for a while and you can always grow into it.

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

Join Us on Facebook!

 

<image001.png>

[Veel Hoeden- Where Many Hats Meet!]

Circle of Trust...

 

 

http://www.koreaittimes.com/images/13752_large_Circle_Of_Trust.jpg

 

Thanks & God Bless,

 

Joel Bennett

Chief Dreamchaser

Veel Hoeden

641-780-7858

veelhoeden.posterous.com

Join Us on Facebook!

 

 

From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Baute - Creative Density Coworking

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:30 PM
To: cowo...@googlegroups.com

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[Alex Hillman]

No amount of video surveillance and security is going to help you BEFORE an incident - only afterwards...especially if your space is relatively accessible to the public, like if it's on the ground floor or similar.

Amen to this. After hours access is a multiplier for potential trouble, regardless of your community orientation. We've had to think through this carefully recently as we added a ground floor. We wouldn't allow anyone after-hours access if it weren't for the community watch approach that we take to even providing keys (the 3 signature rule). If members don't know that they are supposed to watch out for each other, they won't. 

-Alex

indyhall.org

[Jerome Chang]

However, at 3am, if there's only 1 person in the space, there's no one else to watch out...

Jerome

______________

BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)

[Alex Hillman]

IMPORTANT PREFACE: It's not the solution below that I preach, it's the willingness to think beyond "complete lockdown" for creative alternatives to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Ever seen a heist movie? With enough desire and resources, a person can get into anywhere they're not supposed to be and do anything!!

Except that most criminals are lazy and go for long hanging fruit. They wouldn't be willing to take on a persona for 30 days, get to know 3 members without tipping one off. Because before we had a checkpoint for a few members to verify, that's exactly how trouble got in. As soon as we notified the community that something had gone down, multiple people spoke up with suspicions - after the fact and too late. We acknowledged that weakness in front of our community and instead of locking things down completely, signaling that we trusted nobody, we came up with a system that would allow anybody to earn the trust - as we removed trust as the default.

Which is why a person alone in the space at 3am would be vetted with trust from other members (who've also earned trust themselves in order for their vetting to be worth anything) to be there alone in the first place. 

This doesn't work everywhere, and it's much harder to retrofit after the fact than from the beginning. But it works in a lot of places besides coworking spaces. "Circles of Trust" are a joke from "Meet the Parents", but a very real mechanism, fairly well researched in the field of social economics. In fact, (and this shouldn't be a surprise), a well developed trust network can be much, much stronger than a single point of failure for trust. That is to say - if you're delivering keys to individuals based on your own discretion alone, you're at far higher risk for failure than a well developed trust network.

The bottom line is that no matter what you choose do, there are a relatively finite number of bad things that can happen. My job is to think about them, and figure out ways to mitigate those bad things in ways that reinforce the positive interactions (i.e. the formation of trust) between our community members (with trust as a first line of defense), ideally with minimal disruptions to the infinite number of good things that can happen with those interactions in place. 

-Alex

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indyhall.org

coworking in philadelphia

[Cody Sullivan]

Thanks for all of the responses. I was under that exact impression--that most people want it, but few will actually use it. We only have one full-time member. She has shown considerable interest, but she is new and the space is new, so we're not too excited about giving her a key right away. I suspect she would just stay an hour or so beyond our official closing hour, 9PM. Our community is in its infancy and our business is not yet sustainable, so 24/7 access would be more of a means to draw people in. But, I think we'll hold off until we form a solid group with members we know well. Our members, so far, are terrific. It's more a concern of carelessness with, say, forgetting to set the alarm, locking the back door, or casually mentioning our accessibility to someone they shouldn't trust rather than the members, themselves, being malicious. The other concern, which was addressed well here, was utility costs. Thanks again!

-Cody

batha.us