RUN!!! CMANO at half-price on Steam for 48 hrs

[Dimitris Dranidis]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/321410

[Herman Hum]

Pretty good. Now, increase it to a 75% discount and it will be just about
right, for a game known to be this bad.

"Dimitris Dranidis" <sunb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0932b544-6d50-49cb...@googlegroups.com...
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/321410

[Thewood]

Wow, I couldn't even start the timer.

Why don't you just post that the matrix...oh wait, you're banned...

So do it on grogheads...oh, wait they don't like you either...

Dad had an old saying...If you think everyone is an asshole, you are probably the asshole.

[Herman Hum]

You can pull the rodeo clown act all you like. There is nothing you can do
to draw attention away from the fact that MNO is a turd and now the price is
beginning to reflect it.

Your dad was right about you.

"Thewood" <kpro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2d84ab71-0a10-4639...@googlegroups.com...

[Andy]

It can't be that bad, surely?

On Steam, it gets 62 out of 72 positive reviews. On Amazon, it gets 14 out of 19 but that's still almost 3 to 1.

Andy

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 7:10:08 AM UTC+2, Andy wrote:
> It can't be that bad, surely?
>
> On Steam, it gets 62 out of 72 positive reviews. On Amazon, it gets 14 out of 19 but that's still almost 3 to 1.

There's only so many fake accounts Bum and Co can make

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Holdit]

In article <4f2cc0dc-86e2-47f9...@googlegroups.com>,
pionee...@gmail.com says...

>
> It can't be that bad, surely?

You obviously need re-educating. It's bad because HH & VB say it's bad.

>
> On Steam, it gets 62 out of 72 positive reviews. On Amazon, it gets 14
> out of 19 but that's still almost 3 to 1.
>

You see, that's the way lesser mortals like us judge the quality of a
game. we read reviews, we look for how the positive:negative numbers
stack up, check forums for what kind of issues player are reporting,
etc.

HH & VB are operating on a higher plane than that. They just *know* it's
bad.

Holdit

[Giftzwerg]

In article <2d84ab71-0a10-4639...@googlegroups.com>,
kpro...@gmail.com says...

> > Pretty good. Now, increase it to a 75% discount and it will be just about
> > right, for a game known to be this bad.
> >
> > "Dimitris Dranidis" <sunb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:0932b544-6d50-49cb...@googlegroups.com...
> > > http://store.steampowered.com/app/321410
>
> Wow, I couldn't even start the timer.
>
> Why don't you just post that the matrix...oh wait, you're banned...
>
> So do it on grogheads...oh, wait they don't like you either...

Who are you talking to? Wait, what? Yeah, I banned him from here, too,
for the unanswerable crime of being a grim, humorless, one-trick pony.

At least the other insufferable (and banned!) goofazoid is a three-trick
pony; "Bush!!!," "HARPOON!!," and "The Terrible Scourge Of Blazing
Planetary Temperatures That Will Soon Roast Us All To A Crisp!!!!"

Fuck. Absent the killfile, it would be like being trapped in an airline
seat next to a wild-eyed fanatic who can't talk about anything except
ethanol subsidies and how they directly result from the JFK
assassination.


--
Giftzwerg
***
"As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his
election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since
January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
- Washington Times

[rochrist]

Of course. Clearly the fact that game has gone on sale during Steam's
biggest sale of the year when vitually
EVERYTHING THEY SELL is on sale is a definite sign that it's an abject
failure.

You're a clown.

"Herman Hum" wrote in message news:mlfnon$b8p$1...@dont-email.me...

[Giftzwerg]

In article <mlhp35$cnm$1...@dont-email.me>, roch...@charter.net says...

> Of course. Clearly the fact that game has gone on sale during Steam's
> biggest sale of the year when vitually
> EVERYTHING THEY SELL is on sale is a definite sign that it's an abject
> failure.

Yeah. Whew. I picked up a shit-ton of "failed" games in the big Steam
sale.

Well, not like I *wait* for Steam to hold a sale, you understand. <g>

[Holdit]

In article <MPG.2fe66ab9f...@news.giganews.com>, giftzwerg999
@hotmail.com says...

>
> In article <mlhp35$cnm$1...@dont-email.me>, roch...@charter.net says...
>
> > Of course. Clearly the fact that game has gone on sale during Steam's
> > biggest sale of the year when vitually
> > EVERYTHING THEY SELL is on sale is a definite sign that it's an abject
> > failure.
>
> Yeah. Whew. I picked up a shit-ton of "failed" games in the big Steam
> sale.
>
> Well, not like I *wait* for Steam to hold a sale, you understand. <g>

I'm looking at Telltale's Game of Thrones. Their Walking Dead game was
pretty good. Down to 18 yoyos. Mind you, according to HIV logic it must
be shit so...

Holdit

[Giftzwerg]

In article <MPG.2fe6d9056...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i says...

> > > Of course. Clearly the fact that game has gone on sale during Steam's
> > > biggest sale of the year when vitually
> > > EVERYTHING THEY SELL is on sale is a definite sign that it's an abject
> > > failure.
> >
> > Yeah. Whew. I picked up a shit-ton of "failed" games in the big Steam
> > sale.
> >
> > Well, not like I *wait* for Steam to hold a sale, you understand. <g>
>
> I'm looking at Telltale's Game of Thrones. Their Walking Dead game was
> pretty good. Down to 18 yoyos. Mind you, according to HIV logic it must
> be shit so...

The Steam sales are the modern-day "bargain bin." I generally allot
myself $100 or so and pick up a bunch of titles that I've played before
and want to revisit, or that I avoided when they came out at full price.

For example, I got the entire THEATER OF WAR collection for less than
the price of a movie ticket. Sure, it's a shit game, but if I get two
hours of ~fun futzing around with this, I'll be ahead of the game.
Similarly, I got the CASTLE WOLFENSTEIN collection for the same movie
ticket price, and already got my money out of it.

Cripes, if I hadn't already bought WASTELAND 2, I'd certainly pick it up
for $20.

[Herman Hum]

Surely, it is that bad.

It is the same phenomenon when seniors are bilked. The victims are simply
too ashamed to reveal that they were taken in by these Nigerian princes.

The ones who avoided this fraud would have no reason to (or ability) to post
a review, since they did not throw their money away.

"Andy" <pionee...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f2cc0dc-86e2-47f9...@googlegroups.com...

[Herman Hum]

The ones who check for a will see that there is virtually no discussion of
this turd anywhere except for the spammers on the publisher's own site.

"Holdit" <holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i> wrote in message
news:MPG.2fe602655...@news-europe.giganews.com...

>
> You see, that's the way lesser mortals like us judge the quality of a
> game. we read reviews, we look for how the positive:negative numbers
> stack up, check forums for what kind of issues player are reporting,
> etc.
>
> HH & VB are operating on a higher plane than that. They just *know* it's
> bad.

And explicitly show the game to be as bad as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQ2nitU5ow

[Herman Hum]

Even the developers could not prevent the bad news from getting out on their
site nor could pompous administrators like Brant Guillory on GrogHeads
(waves!).

The word got out about how bad this game is, nonetheless.

I predicted that this garbage game was worth no more than $40 and people
listened. That is the real reason why MNO fears my opinion, because I
always speak the truth and only rely upon irrefutable fact.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2174842#post2174842


"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2fe5cfefc...@news.giganews.com...

[Herman Hum]

It just goes to show that no matter how bad a game is, copies can be sold if
you discount it enough.

When they increase it to the more realistic 75% discount, I suspect that
they will find a few more victims.

Even the ugliest and most pox-ridden whore will have a line of customers if
her price is sufficiently low.

"rochrist" <roch...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:mlhp35$cnm$1...@dont-email.me...

[Andy]

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 5:47:18 PM UTC+12, Herman Hum wrote:
> Surely, it is that bad.
>
> It is the same phenomenon when seniors are bilked. The victims are simply
> too ashamed to reveal that they were taken in by these Nigerian princes.
>
> The ones who avoided this fraud would have no reason to (or ability) to post
> a review, since they did not throw their money away.

Hmmm. Usually, people who've lost out on an embarrassing transaction try and avoid drawing attention to it. Publicly posting any kind of "review" doesn't seem like something they'd do easily.

Still the numbers (now 67 out of 78 positive reviews on Steam) are just facts which, as you demonstrate, can be interpreted in many ways and used equally to support several contradictory points-of-view.

Andy

[smr]

On 6/15/2015 12:57 AM, Herman Hum wrote:
> It just goes to show that no matter how bad a game is, copies can be
> sold if you discount it enough.
>
> When they increase it to the more realistic 75% discount, I suspect that
> they will find a few more victims.
>
> Even the ugliest and most pox-ridden whore will have a line of customers
> if her price is sufficiently low.

It is a fact that a large majority of the reviews on Steam and Amazon
for this game are positive.

How does that fact fit your fucked-up little fevered narrative?

--
smr

[Vincenzo Beretta]

For those who cannot run (old people, people suffering from special
needs...) special refuges are being organized.

"Dimitris Dranidis" <sunb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0932b544-6d50-49cb...@googlegroups.com...
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/321410

---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> "rochrist" wrote in message news:mlhp35$cnm$1...@dont-email.me...

> Of course. Clearly the fact that game has gone on sale during
> Steam's biggest sale of the year when vitually
> EVERYTHING THEY SELL is on sale is a definite sign that it's an abject
> failure.

> You're a clown.

Wow, I couldn't even start the timer :D

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> You see, that's the way lesser mortals like us judge the quality of a
> game. we read reviews

What reviews? Failed masturbations devoid of meaningful results are not reviews.

> HH & VB are operating on a higher plane than that. They just *know* it's
> bad.

Actually it is the game which let us know how bad it is. If you don't like this then you one more reason not to like "command".

[Herman Hum]

Some will avoid drawing attention to their victimization, while others will
try to justify by surrounding themselves with other victims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wLlrfU89E&feature=youtu.be&t=9m35s

There will always be some who actually enjoy this kludge game and their
opinions are no less valid. However, only actual game purchases are allowed
to post reviews as non-purchasers are disallowed and prevented by the Steam
software.

The number of reviews are, indeed, factual numbers. Other factual numbers
are the numbers of owners actually playing the game.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

Notice how MNO could not even scratch together an average of 12 players from
a world-wide community before the sale? I suspect that the player numbers
will soon drop back to the 20s once everyone has a chance to actually try
the game and reject it.

The number of Steam reviews is misleading as I _personally_ was able to
watch as negative reviews disappeared before my very eyes, when the game was
released on Steam. I watched four evaporate even as I was reading them. I
have no idea how many more the developers made disappear.

The most interesting review to come out of this sale is from Diire,
http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/recommended/321410/

"Technically is amazing, the asset list and detailing is a work of art - but
the gameplay is so sterile, basically a wall of text and idiot AI. Perhaps
for £15 it might amuse, for £30 no chance and for £60 you'd need to be a
hardcore sim nut."

Notice how he logs only 1.9hrs playing the game? Steam allows customers to
play and return a game as long as no more than 2 hours are recorded. I find
it more than circumstantial or coincidental that this user played just under
the maximum number to qualify for a refund. I am only curious what he did
with the other 90 minutes of his allotment after he realized this game was a
turd. :-)

I suspect that there are a *lot* of other purchasers who did or will do the
same. Unfortunately, there is no public log of the number who will return
this game. The only public indicator for the number of players who remain
with the game will be next month's report on the SteamCharts. Regardless, I
bet that everyone will be asking themselves the same question at some point,
"They wanted $80 for *THIS*?!"

"Andy" <pionee...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:e30f9469-8632-47f0...@googlegroups.com...

[Herman Hum]

Given the amount of effort one of the developers, Ragnar Emsoy, expended
trying to remove a negative review from Amazon (a.k.a. the Amazon Debacle),
it comes as no surprise. I just wonder how many others were removed from
the Amazon site.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/fA588iAcoE4/i_nnIpqy2A8J

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message
news:mlmqr5$rdp$2...@ftupet.ftupet.com...

[Andy]

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:56:03 PM UTC+12, Herman Hum wrote:

> Notice how MNO could not even scratch together an average of 12 players
> from
> a world-wide community before the sale? I suspect that the player numbers
> will soon drop back to the 20s once everyone has a chance to actually try
> the game and reject it.

On the other hand, those numbers don't count those solo gamers like myself who use Steam in offline mode whenever possible.

> The number of Steam reviews is misleading as I _personally_ was able to
> watch as negative reviews disappeared before my very eyes, when the game
> was
> released on Steam. I watched four evaporate even as I was reading them.
> I
> have no idea how many more the developers made disappear.

That's quite a serious allegation. Can developers actually do that? I thought Steam/Valve/whatever was a third party organisation with no direct link to any particular developer.

> The most interesting review to come out of this sale is from Diire,
> http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/recommended/321410/
>
> "Technically is amazing, the asset list and detailing is a work of art -
> but
> the gameplay is so sterile, basically a wall of text and idiot AI. Perhaps
> for £15 it might amuse, for £30 no chance and for £60 you'd need to be a
> hardcore sim nut."
>
> Notice how he logs only 1.9hrs playing the game?

To be honest, I believe that 1.9 hours is far too short a time period for anyone to attempt a serious review a game as complex as CMANO (although maybe Diire logged up some offline time as well). I found this one much more useful.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/bluewolf117/recommended/321410/

It's a little more detailed and based on a much longer period of gameplay. Despite the non-recommendation, the reviewer does give the developers credit for things they got right and praises them for positive update practices. In discussion attached to the review, the reviewer also makes the point that developers posts have also been deleted so maybe the disappearing review phenomenon isn't as sinister as you think.

Andy

[Herman Hum]

"Andy" <pionee...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a08679db-95ad-4cd9...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:56:03 PM UTC+12, Herman Hum wrote:
>
>> Notice how MNO could not even scratch together an average of 12 players
>> from
>> a world-wide community before the sale? I suspect that the player
>> numbers
>> will soon drop back to the 20s once everyone has a chance to actually try
>> the game and reject it.
>
> On the other hand, those numbers don't count those solo gamers like myself
> who use Steam in offline mode whenever possible.

You assume that MNO users are somehow more special than all other Steam
users. Their gullibility might be higher, but nearly all Steam games can be
played in off-line mode. All games are judged by the same criteria and
statistics. If MNO statistics are lowered by off-line mode play, then other
games would suffer the same negative effect. It may not be a perfect
correlation, but it is close enough in the broad scheme of things.

>
>> The number of Steam reviews is misleading as I _personally_ was able to
>> watch as negative reviews disappeared before my very eyes, when the game
>> was
>> released on Steam. I watched four evaporate even as I was reading them.
>> I
>> have no idea how many more the developers made disappear.
>
> That's quite a serious allegation. Can developers actually do that? I
> thought Steam/Valve/whatever was a third party organisation with no direct
> link to any particular developer.

I thought the same. If I had not seen it happen before my very own eyes, I
might not have believed it. I went to the list of negative MNO reviews and
was going through them sequentially. I read a couple, but never got to
finish them because, by the time I got to the end, _all_ the reviews had
been removed.

I even posted a question to support regarding this very question regarding
game management:

>> Message by you on Fri, 26th Sep 2014 16:27
>> I received this message on my attached videos:

>> "This item has been banned because it violates the Steam Terms of
>> Service. It is only visible to you. If you believe your item has been
>> banned mistakenly, please contact"

It took a month for a reply, but Steam support sent me:

>> Message by Support Tech Roland on Wed, 29th Oct 2014 6:44
>> Hello Herman,

>> We have told you that we do not moderate the content, and provided you
>> the contact information for the support team that oversees the game and
>> the developers forums on our site.

>> You will need to contact them for assistance regarding the content they
>> banned.

Game developers on Steam are allowed to rule their fiefdoms as they like.
Since I cannot grant anyone access to my Steam support account, you are free
to pose this query to Steam support and confirm it on your own. Be warned,
you will need to be persistent as it took several rounds to get this
definitive response from them.

>
>> The most interesting review to come out of this sale is from Diire,
>> http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/recommended/321410/
>>
>> "Technically is amazing, the asset list and detailing is a work of art -
>> but
>> the gameplay is so sterile, basically a wall of text and idiot AI.
>> Perhaps
>> for £15 it might amuse, for £30 no chance and for £60 you'd need to be a
>> hardcore sim nut."
>>
>> Notice how he logs only 1.9hrs playing the game?
>
> To be honest, I believe that 1.9 hours is far too short a time period for
> anyone to attempt a serious review a game as complex as CMANO (although
> maybe Diire logged up some offline time as well).

1.9 hours may appear to be a relatively short time but some folks are able
to identify poorly designed games faster than others. Personally, I am able
to try out a number of games relatively quickly and know that they were not
fun or suitable for my tastes. I am certain that others are able to do the
same.

MNO tries to pretend that it is complex, but that is a mirage. Simply
throwing numbers and spreadsheets at players via a crude UI in hopes of
confusing them does not equate to complexity or accuracy. MNO scenarios are
'hard' to play only because getting the game to accept the orders you want
to give is just so cumbersome and awkward. I suspect that they also hope
that there will be an unfortunate few who accidentally go over the 2hr limit
and thus end up stuck with a game they do not want.

I think that most Steam users are savvy enough to know that they can try
games in off-line mode and exceed the 2hr limit for refunds, if necessary. I
think that this excellent refund policy is going to pay huge dividends for
Steam in terms of customer satisfaction. Conversely, it will probably prove
a death knell for low quality games like MNO, as potential customers no
longer need to risk their hard-earned cash. That has been the real reason
behind the steadfast MNO refusal to provide a demo; catching a few victims
is better than none whatsoever if a demo is available. It is the same basic
premise for any scam.

I think that this past weekend sale is already beginning to show this trend.
The spike in MNO players is likely attributed to the sale and those wanting
to test the game. The sharp drop-off once the sale ended is likely
indicative of those who returned the game as unfit for human consumption.
The real test will be two weeks after the sale, since this is the maximum
time limit for a refund request.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

[Holdit]

In article <a08679db-95ad-4cd9...@googlegroups.com>,
pionee...@gmail.com says...

>
> It's a little more detailed and based on a much longer period of
> gameplay. Despite the non-recommendation, the reviewer does give the
> developers credit for things they got right and praises them for
> positive update practices. In discussion attached to the review, the
> reviewer also makes the point that developers posts have also been
> deleted so maybe the disappearing review phenomenon isn't as sinister
> as you think.
>

Don't waste your time. Herman's self-professed love of facts wanes
rapidly when the facts don't suit his agenda.

Holdit

[Herman Hum]

I see that this is the pro-forma denial of facts when unable to actually
refute any of them. No matter how much you try to dance around the matter,
the spotlight of truth will always reveal your inability to ever bring make
a factual argument.

Don't ever get into a fact fight with me, unless you have some.

"Holdit" <holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i> wrote in message

news:MPG.2febf9865...@news-europe.giganews.com...

[Herman Hum]

"Andy" <pionee...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a08679db-95ad-4cd9...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:56:03 PM UTC+12, Herman Hum wrote:
>
>> The most interesting review to come out of this sale is from Diire,
>> http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/recommended/321410/
>>
>> "Technically is amazing, the asset list and detailing is a work of art -
>> but
>> the gameplay is so sterile, basically a wall of text and idiot AI.
>> Perhaps
>> for £15 it might amuse, for £30 no chance and for £60 you'd need to be a
>> hardcore sim nut."
>>
>> Notice how he logs only 1.9hrs playing the game?
>
> To be honest, I believe that 1.9 hours is far too short a time period for
> anyone to attempt a serious review a game as complex as CMANO (although
> maybe Diire logged up some offline time as well). I found this one much
> more useful.
>
> http://steamcommunity.com/id/bluewolf117/recommended/321410/

Another perfect example of how Steam's return policy is the nightmare of
garbage games like MNO:

"The confirm was immediate. I returned CMANO, the UI was too clunky for my
taste, couldn't get into the tutorial.", Tuna

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13788.msg362432#msg362432

Just another player who came to the correct conclusion within 2 hours. I've
been saying since the very beginning that the MNO interface makes the game
un-fun a chore to play.

The *fact* that 70-80% of the new MNO users seem to have disappeared into
thin air just _days_ after the weekend sale ended goes to show how many just
wanted to prove to themselves what a turd this game really is, before they
got their refunds.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> Don't waste your time. Herman's self-professed love of facts
> wanes rapidly when the facts don't suit his agenda.
>
> Holdit

Well, give us an example.

[Herman Hum]

That should read as, "Herman's absolute and unyielding fixation on facts",
which is probably a good thing for a NewsGroup that purportedly only deals
with facts (at least it historically did.)

This begs the question, for those who do not care about facts, why they even
bother to participate in a NewsGroup where facts are supposedly sacrosanct.

"Vincenzo Beretta" <rec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:643ebfd6-824f-4a75...@googlegroups.com...

[Vincenzo Beretta]

They were, until they became a liaison. Never forget the parable of the man who is absolutely faithful to his wife until he finds himself stranded on a desert island with Claudia Schiffer.

[Vincenzo Beretta]

I always had the feeling that "Command" ***appears*** to be a great game, but that actually few people acclaiming it played it beyond the simplest scenarios. The rest is taken for granted.

Imagine: you 'supposedly' have an interactive version of "Jane's" books on your shelf. But you don't actually read it, check it, or use the info provided except in a superficial way. In a way, the amount of work contained in the books gives you the feeling that the compilers did their jobs - and now their efforts are on your shelf, reassuring you that you can count on them every time you want. Thus: the high vote, done on faith.

And here is the fault in that line of reasoning: a lot of work doesn't guarantee, at all, that the mentioned work is done properly. Far from it.

Every then and now I hear mentions about "how well the game was received by professional reviewers, even Admirals". Well, I'm not an Admiral, but, as a professional reviewer for IGN, I can tell you that these people are crocks. They themselves managed to prove how they never delved into the game beyond quoting the official propaganda and playing some simple scenario.

One review claimed:

"Want to play out a battle from Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising? You can."
Armchair General, Nov 15, 2013
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/command-modern-air-naval-operations-pc-game-review.htm

Er, no you can't. The most famous battle from Red Storm Rising is, ostensibly, the Dance of the Vampires, where a force of Backfires attacks a carrier battle group.

"The eight French Crusaders were just making contact with the Backfires. The Russian bombers were on afterburner and were nearly as fast as the French fighters.
... Only ten Backfires were within their reach. They got six of them with their missiles and damaged two more before they had to break off.", Tom Clancy

This RSR battle is impossible to replicate in MNO because both the Backfires and the Crusaders are artificially limited to the same 950 knot maximum speed in the game, thereby making the situation physically unattainable according to the laws of physics, aerodynamics, and mathematics.

Stellar reviews were done (and are now part of the "Wargame of the Year) and orgasmic opinions were given about "Command", when you still could make an F-14 Tomcat hover at 0 knots. Or, when I was personally able to attack a Kirov battle group with a light of F-18s flying at 500 knots ***underwater***. Or when the game, when launched, simply crashed - maybe two or three times in a row.

Sure, now many of these problems are fixed due to the occasional patch (In my opinion, there is still a deeply rooted memory management problem in the code - so deeply rooted that it took the combined efforts of both me and Herman three days to nail it. But, by now, it is no more my problem: good luck to the team).

But my main point is that both the stellar reviews and the orgasmic reactions from the gamers almost all came during the early versions of the game, when Tomcats hovered at 0 knots. How it is possible? Because no one - neither the developers, nor the beta testers, and not even the buyers checked. After all, the work done ***seemed*** enormous, didn't it?

Just think about this: if 10 reviews are good and only one is allegedly bad (on SimHQ), why try to sink it? What do you have to fear? Truth is: no one was ever able to disprove the contents of that unique 'bad' review. The music that had to accompany "Command" was already set even before the game was out the gate.


And I'll only mention in passing the shameful attempt by one or more people from WarfareSim to make my two-star review disappear from Amazon. This is the pinnacle of unprofessionalism. (Amazon is full of positive reviews, why the heck you should want to have one of the negative ones to disappear?? And not a random one, but a very specific one?) All of which was proven, here, on the newsgroup and all either derided or ignored.

Why? I remember those days early and the fetid smell of Dianetics which surrounded discussions about "Command" on this newsgroup. Now we live in times where "facts don't matter anymore", games (and, by inference, people) are judged without even owning them, and a "cite?" demand (once one of the pillars of this NG), gets you kill-filed by some.

Why? In my opinion, because by choosing on a knee-jerk reaction the wrong friends, this NG lost what once was its main banner: ***integrity***. And every time someone speaks or, even worse, shows the truth, it becomes a slap-in-the-face reminder of this loss. Thus, necks turn and a smoke barrier of derision tries to show that "See? It is only those two stupids and their proofs - items earmarked for no further consideration".

Realizing that you lost your integrity, especially if you feel it is one of your gold-plated qualities, is one of the hardest life experiences for a man. And, when you have a couple of people on this NG whose mere presence reminds you of this fact daily, you only have two choices: think hard about what happened, or choose the "Dark Side" (putting your hands on your hears, chanting "la-la-la"and try to discredit them.

Every member of this newsgroup is welcome to their opinion about the game (the one which became an opinion about people). However, for the guys running towards Steam with $40 in hand (cue: "Eric's Theme" by Vangelis from the "Chariots of Fire OST), or that feel elation in deriding those for which facts still count, I only have a suggestion:

Before making your next decision, read "Lord Jim".

[Herman Hum]

Here's an interesting MNO bug report from Gneckes that is probably neither
coincidental nor accidental:

"Steam gets stuck on closing the game
Basically, when I close the game, Steam tells me the game is still running
(and thus refuses to launch it again), but there is no thread for it showing
up in my task manager.
I can work-around it by restarting my Steam client, but that's not optimal
of course.
Any recommendations? "

http://steamcommunity.com/app/321410/discussions/1/594821545174469565/

Looks like anyone trying to test the game within the two hour window of
grace granted by Steam had better do so _very_ carefully. The MNO
developers are so repugnantly dishonest that their game will not even shut
down properly thereby possibly forcing unsuspecting users to log more than
the allowable 2 hours with the game. Once they pass the limit, the game
cannot be refunded. I suspect that there are a LOT of new and unhappy
owners of this game because of their 'glitch'. Nicely done.

"Andy" <pionee...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a08679db-95ad-4cd9...@googlegroups.com...

[bost...@gmail.com]

This is the first bug report we've seen like this and we'll definitely try and follow up and help this guy.

Just so everybody has the facts. Doing this would not be a good attempt to run up the steam clock. Those that understand how steam evaluates a running copy of Command understand why. If this was a "conspiracy" obviously there would be many more reports of problem and I wouldn't be responding.

Thanks

Mike

[bost...@gmail.com]

Vince I think the group just disagrees with your opinion and has a good sense of real and not.

We're just trying to build the game we always wanted and hope that players like it. We accept that some will not for lots of reasons including some that may not make sense at all. We did win GOTY in a few places and our sales have been wonderful so I think we're on the right track.

Thanks!

Mike

[smr]

Your willingness to automatically assume that this is purposely-coded
behavior nefariously designed by the programmers to break the refund
option is fucking disgusting.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

I see that this is another pro-forma denial without the ability to actually
refute the facts presented, even if punctuated with the usual insult.

Bringing an insult to a fact fight is just the typical act of stupidity
expected from you.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:mm9aie$oih$1...@ftupet.ftupet.com...

[Herman Hum]

The usual, "We are the World" mentality and narcissism, all the while trying
to pass of a personal opinion as 'speaking for the Group'. And, as usual,
actually bereft of any facts.

Sales are so 'wonderful' that no one can actually be seen playing the game
(not that they would want to be seen doing so).

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

It all reminds me of the World Cup games that were supposedly 'sold out' and
'huge successes', but no can actually been seen in the arena.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81982000/jpg/_81982421_brasilia_seats2.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32073525


<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd6fd087-4cbb-4174...@googlegroups.com...

[Herman Hum]

Since you have presented no facts beyond the usual blanket denial, allow me
to preset a few *facts* that can be independently verified.

This non-stop bug has been present since the very beginning of MNO.
"takes a minute and a half to load. - 9/25/2013"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3416953

I'm not the only one who knows about it. Of course, since the developer
just ignored it, it did not go away.

I guess not learning from their past or bug reports is just typical for MNO
developers. At least in this instance, MNO incompetence actually pays
dividends. I suspect that there will be more bug reports once Steam users
discover they have become involuntary owners of this turd.

Here's a free lesson: Don't ever get into a fact fight with me, unless you
actually have some.

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ce0ba50-3ae9-4a04...@googlegroups.com...

[bost...@gmail.com]

Yeah its a pretty crazy accusation.

At the end of the day you look to normal dudes who just have fun with the game and try and help. Herman is not one of them for a couple of reasons.

Mike

[bost...@gmail.com]

I think us saying that we know that some people won't like our game is the exact opposite of narcissism. I do agree though that we do have a "we are the world" attitude in the sense that we do try and appeal to the middle rather than the fringe. As I mentioned we're just here to build games and have fun.

Mike

[bost...@gmail.com]

You just claimed we made this bug to raise our steam times and now you're saying it existed before Steam. Get your story straight slim:)

There have been a number of crash bugs in our dev history and I'm pretty confident we've dealt with each one. If any more appear we'll deal with those too. Although we try and avoid them because we're constantly adding new stuff they can appear and the active community seems to be okay with it. If we get the sense that they are not we'll change how we're doing things.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

I see that when unable to refute the facts, smokescreens are thrown up to
try and hide the fact that no one plays (or wants to be seen playing) your
game.


<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c23a6f0-d4f1-4e95...@googlegroups.com...

I guess the accompanying fraud is just a side benefit of the fun.

[Herman Hum]

By all means, I am happy to provide clarification. After all, *I'm* the
only one who had a handle on the facts.

The bug pre-existed Steam, but this incompetence from MNO did not pay any
dividends. The fact that it remains after release on Steam is just a nice
benefit to defraud involuntary MNO users. At no time did I state that the
bug was created deliberately for Steam. Nice try to deflect attention from
your Fraudulent behaviour.

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:33cb4655-53a4-47da...@googlegroups.com...

[bost...@gmail.com]

Everybody is well aware who the frauds are. You are banned on at least three very popular web forums and have had people screaming to killfile you here which is the free'est wargame chat on the net.

Truth is we don't have to respond to you at all anymore. We can pick and choose. You've made this possible. Do you understand that?

Mike

[Herman Hum]

The presence or absence of any individual from any particular forum is
irrelevant as the truth behind this turd game continues to be revealed.
That some fora or self-important administrators try to hide the problems
with MNO is not my problem.

Any response from MNO is irrelevant. That is just more of the narcisstic
behaviour behind MNO; the bugs exist regardless of any acknowledgment or
denial from the developers. The problems with the game are now well known
and widely spread and I've made that possible. Is that clear enough for you
to understand?

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edb3033b-9f8b-4949...@googlegroups.com...

[smr]

On 6/22/2015 11:44 AM, Herman Hum wrote:
> I see that this is another pro-forma denial without the ability to
> actually refute the facts presented, even if punctuated with the usual
> insult.
>
> Bringing an insult to a fact fight is just the typical act of stupidity
> expected from you.

You didn't present any facts. A "fact" supporting your argument here
would be, say, an email or company memo directing CMANO employees to
break the Close App function in order to prevent Steam refunds.

You presented a bug that could exist for any number of reasons, and that
doesn't exist for a large number of users. You then made up out of thin
air your belief as to the reason why the bug exists, doing so without a
single FACT to support your reasoning.

Lotta folks call that "lying".

--
smr

[bost...@gmail.com]

I think you're right on thinking there is a consensus out there about you but I don't think you understand what that is. Its not rooted in conspiracy but a common sense of who's a kook and who isn't based on the posts and emails they've read. People are smart and you should learn to treat them that way.

I think discussing how we've dealt with bugs is anything but narcissistic. Its real and most seem to appreciate it.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

Of course, the facts do not support your claim, as usual.

I reported a factual bug report that showed the problem had existed for
years and stated that it fortuitously advantageous. No claim of causality
was ever attributed. Your inability to refute these two facts is evident.

"Herman Hum" <herm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mm9gs1$3e6$1...@dont-email.me...

> By all means, I am happy to provide clarification. After all, *I'm* the
> only one who had a handle on the facts.
>
> The bug pre-existed Steam, but this incompetence from MNO did not pay any
> dividends. The fact that it remains after release on Steam is just a nice
> benefit to defraud involuntary MNO users. At no time did I state that the
> bug was created deliberately for Steam. Nice try to deflect attention
> from your Fraudulent behaviour.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/ARzOigLhFYo/xMffw4tVikQJ

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:mm9ibs$qlq$1...@ftupet.ftupet.com...

[Herman Hum]

A consensus would suggest that folks actually agree that this game is a
turd, although that is strongly indicated by the lack of MNO players.

The constant attempt to deflect attention from the game's problems is more
than sufficient for those with common sense to avoid your game.

Oh, and the attempt to hide when you've been caught in an outright lie is
also noted:

"Herman Hum" <herm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:mm9et5$r01$1...@dont-email.me...

> Since you have presented no facts beyond the usual blanket denial, allow
> me
> to preset a few *facts* that can be independently verified.
>
> This non-stop bug has been present since the very beginning of MNO.
> "takes a minute and a half to load. - 9/25/2013"
> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3416953
>
> I'm not the only one who knows about it. Of course, since the developer
> just ignored it, it did not go away.
>
> I guess not learning from their past or bug reports is just typical for
> MNO
> developers. At least in this instance, MNO incompetence actually pays
> dividends. I suspect that there will be more bug reports once Steam users
> discover they have become involuntary owners of this turd.
>
> Here's a free lesson: Don't ever get into a fact fight with me, unless you
> actually have some.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/ARzOigLhFYo/xMffw4tVikQJ


<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1aa48026-c385-4a70...@googlegroups.com...

[Giftzwerg]

In article <c1361447-adca-4a94...@googlegroups.com>,
bost...@gmail.com says...

> Yeah its a pretty crazy accusation.

... particularly since the "Application Already Running" bug has been
with Steam for years. I've been bitten by this a dozen or more games.
It's generally fixed by clearing the Steam cache or turning off the
facility for messaging withing Steam apps.

ACE PATROL had this. So did WASTELAND 2.

Crooked developers? Not.


--
Giftzwerg
***
"As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his
election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since
January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
- Washington Times

[Giftzwerg]

In article <3c23a6f0-d4f1-4e95...@googlegroups.com>,
bost...@gmail.com says...

> I think us saying that we know that some people won't like our game is
the exact opposite of narcissism. I do agree though that we do have a
"we are the world" attitude in the sense that we do try and appeal to
the middle rather than the fringe. As I mentioned we're just here to
build games and have fun.

***

I'm just here to buy games and have fun. Sounds like a symbiotic
relationship.

[Giftzwerg]

In article <1aa48026-c385-4a70...@googlegroups.com>,
bost...@gmail.com says...

> I think you're right on thinking there is a consensus out there about
you but I don't think you understand what that is. Its not rooted in
conspiracy but a common sense of who's a kook and who isn't based on the
posts and emails they've read. People are smart and you should learn to
treat them that way.

***

What's the old saying?

"If you sit down at a poker table and can't figure out who the sucker is
... it's you."

[Herman Hum]

What's the new saying?

When you start up a game of MNO and can't figure out who the sucker is
... it's you.

"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff231624...@news.giganews.com...

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> As I mentioned we're just here to build games and have fun.

Yes, but with other's people money.... (rollseyes)

---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Herman Hum]

An honest company would warn its potential customers about a bug that could
cost an unsuspecting customer *$80*. Even if the bug is not a deliberate
attempt at dishonesty, MNO developers quietly enjoy the benefits of
defrauding innocent customers who only wanted to see if the game really is
as bad as some describe it.

The developers' past does not speak in their favour. One only has to read
about their willingly porked and sabotaged database to know their history
and penchant for dishonesty.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/gge8qopu1iy/70zgz7r8zwkj

"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:MPG.2ff2302c3...@news.giganews.com...

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> Everybody is well aware who the frauds are. You are banned on at least
> three very popular web forums

Like they say, "It is when you start to take flak that you know you are over
the target".

> you here which is the free'est wargame chat on the net and have had people
> screaming to killfile

*This* is the really scary thing. For this Newsgroup, of course. I had a guy
screaming at me "Killfile!!!!" because I asked him "Cite?" on a dubious
statement of him. Now read the "unwritten rules" of the "free'est wargame
chat on the net" posted in happier times:

* * *

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/sCzfXz0AuWc[26-50]

The Unwritten Rules of War-Historical :

- We don't need no stinkin moderators (copyright Ray O'Hara)

- As far as topics goes "wargaming" is the general theme, but nobody
cares if you post off-topic stuff, however an OT: marker in the
subject title is appreciated.

*** - You can pretty much say anything you want, but make sure you can
back up every claim you make with facts. Also known as the "Cite"
rule.***

- Posters attacking the messenger because they can't refute the
message are treated with utter contempt.

- Even if you've done nothing "wrong" be prepared for the occasional
unwarranted flak - if you can't take this, stay out of the ng.

- Flamewars are a source of entertainment and not to be taken
seriously - just to confuse the newbees make sure you totally agree
with someone in one thread and call him a clueless moron in another.

- Developers and publishers get no special protection or preferential
treatment. If they are treated with respect, it means they earned it.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

* * *

Do you know who screamed "Killfile!!!!" at my "Cite?" The same guy who
posted this message.

Reading this list and comparing it with the current situation... Integrity,
remember?

> Truth is we don't have to respond to you at all anymore. ***We...***

Hear hear: "There is no narcissism here!!" :D

[bost...@gmail.com]

Yeah I know a great injustice has been committed because you've been kill filed for being an annoying douchebag. We get it.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

The fact that MNO has been kill-filed by the general wargame playing
community is sufficient justice for all.


<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec6bc93c-4564-4464...@googlegroups.com...

[bost...@gmail.com]

Yes I do understand that getting us kill filed is your objective and the only think you can do to us at this point. So I probably should stop replying again.

We'll talk again in a few months. Maybe:)

Mike

[Herman Hum]

Unfortunately, you managed to get yourself and your game kill-filed all on
your own. Be proud.

Of course, you will be unable to ever produce any evidence showing someone
requesting that MNO or anyone be kill-filed, because it doesn't exist. I
don't need to shut anyone up or have them or their game kill-filed. I only
need to show **EXACTLY** how badly your game runs. The kill-filing of MNO
by the general game-playing community at large is done all on their own.
All they have to do is see how (horridly) your game runs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQ2nitU5ow


<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8fccf357-13f2-4555...@googlegroups.com...

[Vincenzo Beretta]

No. I couldn't care less about the killfile. But it is interesting to notice how fast the "unwritten rules" who once made this NewsGroup one of the fre'er in the whole internet (your words) are broken by the very one who wrote them, once he realized he supported the wrong friends.

[smr]

On 6/22/2015 6:44 PM, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> No. I couldn't care less about the killfile. But it is interesting to notice how fast the "unwritten rules" who once made this NewsGroup one of the fre'er in the whole internet (your words) are broken by the very one who wrote them, once he realized he supported the wrong friends.
>

Nobody is telling you two butt-fucking dipshits that you CAN'T post
here. We're certainly saying we'd prefer it if you SHUT THE FUCK UP
about your bullshit, faked-up crusade that is apparently the only thing
that imbues the slightest hint of meaning into your empty goddamned lives.

You don't like C:MANO. Got it. Great. Don't fucking play it.

Now piss off otherwise? Seriously, Herman's fucking posts might as well
just be a retard slapping at the Photoshop clone stamp tool on the first
post he made on the issue years ago because he's got fuck-all new to say
except when he occasionally tweaks one detail of his lies. You're just
bringing up the rear, covered in his jizz, like a circus sideshow familiar.

You're both beyond tiresome.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

Of course, no one can tell anyone not to post. However, there are certainly
a few self-important fools who think that it is actually necessary to
kill-file someone who holds a difference of opinion or prefer that someone
else "STFU" because they are unable to argue over facts.

Instead, they think that an insult or expletive is sufficient as an
argument. When they are held to ridicule as buffoons, they re-double their
efforts by shouting louder, as if volume wins arguments.

The only faked-up crusade is the claim that MNO is a good game in any way
shape or form, when every speck of public information shows otherwise.
Videos show how horridly awkward and cumbersome the interface is and the
public player statistics show everyone running away from this turd as fast
as their legs can carry them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQ2nitU5ow

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

By all means, I've re-presented the facts and, once again, held you up to
ridicule for your inability to refute a single one.

You should have brought a fact to this gunfight.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:mma9rj$2vn$1...@ftupet.ftupet.com...

[DirkG]

This HH guy posts reminds me of the Argument Sketch from Monty Python.
Except that that sketch was funny...

[Herman Hum]

Looks like my argument was delivered perfectly! Given that this is
supposedly an argument over facts, there should be no comedic value,
whatsoever.

The only only funny thing to note is that one side has facts while the other
can only resort to insults.

"DirkG" <a...@a.com> wrote in message news:mmak26$n3u$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Vincenzo Beretta]

> Nobody is telling you two butt-fucking dipshits...

I'm sorry, but when you start a debate whit insults you have already lost. It only underlines your lack of facts.

> We're

Another good example of narcissism.

> certainly saying we'd prefer it if you SHUT THE FUCK UP
> about your bullshit, faked-up crusade

...which was never proved to be faked-up, BTW

> that is apparently the only thing
> that imbues the slightest hint of meaning into your
> empty goddamned lives.

Being part of the Writers Guild of America (West) helps. If you want a scan of my card and my nomination for best writer for "Assassin's Creed: Revelation" just whistle.

> You don't like C:MANO. Got it. Great. Don't fucking play it.

As a matter of fact, I don't play it. but I do contribute with Herman in underlying the horror hidden under the "Even Admirals like it!" If I manage to have even a potential customer to avoid the waste of $80, then I feel that I made my day.

> Now piss off otherwise? Seriously, Herman's fucking posts might as well
> just be a retard slapping at the Photoshop clone stamp tool on the first
> post he made on the issue years ago because he's got fuck-all new to say
> except when he occasionally tweaks one detail of his lies. You're just
> bringing up the rear, covered in his jizz, like a circus sideshow familiar.

I seriously think you need a Logopedist. Minimum.

>
> You're both beyond tiresome.

Then don't read our message. Wasn't you who said that if you don't like something you always can avoid it?

And, BTW, don't think that I forgot about the smoke wall used to hid inconvenient truths. My message was about how the one who delineated the accepted behaviour on this NG was THE VERY FIRST to break it. And I still have to hear from him about it. But for what? I was killfiled by him for a "Cite?"...

[smr]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:27:23 -0700 (PDT), Vincenzo Beretta wrote:

> Being part of the Writers Guild of America (West) helps. If you want a scan of my card and my nomination for best writer for "Assassin's Creed: Revelation" just whistle.

This is the saddest goddamned sentence ever posted to this newsgroup.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

And you just surpassed it. Congratulations.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:11aazb9fdjhbm$.1bjp6vvcaqjvq$.dlg@40tude.net...

[Carl Alex Friis Nielsen]

On 22-06-2015 22:46, Herman Hum wrote:
> An honest company would warn its potential customers about a bug that
> could cost an unsuspecting customer *$80*.

How can a bug do that?

[The Plodder]

Now you're just egging him on, let the cuckoo get back in his clock...

[smr]

Fuck your mom, Herm.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

I see that you are still unable to refute any of the facts presented and
have, once again, resorted to profanity and insult.

You lose, again.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:1l3t4nc9iex7.1j...@40tude.net...

[smr]

The FACT is that there are many people, some right in this very group, who
state that they enjoy the game very much. This has been pointed out to you
numerous times. But, because it's a fact that doesn't fit your narrative,
you insist on ignoring it.

In summary: fuck your mom.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

Here is how this particular bug can cost an unsuspecting customer his
hard-earned 80 dollars.

Starting in June 2015, Steam allowed customers to return games for a full
refund within 2 weeks if they did not more than 2 hours of recorded play on
it. A customer could buy MNO and try the game for up to 1.9 hours to see if
it suited their tastes or warranted the expense. He could then legitimately
request a refund if he decided not to keep the game. A perfect example of
this behaviour is from a user named Diire, who did exactly that:

"Technically is amazing, the asset list and detailing is a work of art - but
the gameplay is so sterile, basically a wall of text and idiot AI. Perhaps
for £15 it might amuse, for £30 no chance and for £60 you'd need to be a
hardcore sim nut. "

http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/recommended/321410/

He played 1.9 hours, found the game ridiculous and returned it for a full
refund. You can see that the game no longer appears in his game library.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/diire/games/?tab=all


Now, there is a bug that has been reported with MNO by Gneckes regarding the
inability to totally shut down the game properly.

"Steam gets stuck on closing the game"

> Basically, when I close the game, Steam tells me the game is still running
> (and thus refuses to launch it again), but there is no thread for it
> showing up in my task manager.
> I can work-around it by restarting my Steam client, but that's not optimal
> of course.
> Any recommendations?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/321410/discussions/1/594821545174469565/

This same bug has been known since the day after MNO was released.
9/25/2013 8:06:33 AM

"takes a minute and a half to load"

> Is that expected, normal? I surpass all the required specs.

> Also, I can play it once ok, then I exit and if I try to play it again,
> without a computer restart, it hangs. When I shut down the machine I THEN
> get the dialogue asking if I'm sure I want
> to exit command, like it had still been somehow going in the background
> and couldn't shut down.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3416953&mpage=1&key=&#3416953

In short, the game does not close or shut down when requested and the user
may not even know that the game continues to run, as there are no visible
indicators.

Therefore, a customer could purchase the game (like Diire did) in order to
examine its suitability. He might run it an hour, order it to close, grab
some lunch, and then come back later only to find that he has already gone
over the allowable 2 hour limit for returning the game for refund because
the game was running continuously in his absence, even if he had explicitly
ordered it to shut down. At this point, if the number of hours recorded as
played with the game exceeds the maximum allowable limit (2hrs), he is
ineligible for a refund and is stuck with a garbage game like MNO that he
probably will not want.

Now, this bug has not been positively confirmed to accumulate the number of
recorded hours for any title. However, since Steam client updates seem to
change on a daily or hourly basis, it is quite conceivable that a game
running latently could be counted against a player's allowable 2 hour limit
now or in the future.


"Carl Alex Friis Nielsen" <ca...@mail.dk> wrote in message
news:558985a9$0$23636$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

[Herman Hum]

The fact that there are few people who can even be seen playing this game,
regardless of any within this newsgroup, is publicly shown.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

This is a fact. Your claim is nothing but an opinion.

You should have brought a fact to this fact fight.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:1gik0pmt8qaoh.1iivghafb4j82$.dlg@40tude.net...

[bost...@gmail.com]

This is amazing bs even by Herman standards.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

I see the usual denial, without the ability to refute a single fact. It is
little wonder why you are held in such utter contempt.

"The Plodder" <llo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:22f1514d-9f05-4df5...@googlegroups.com...

[Herman Hum]

The usual desperate denial, without the ability to refute the facts.

> - Posters attacking the messenger because they can't refute the
> message are treated with utter contempt.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/sCzfXz0AuWc[26-50]

It is little wonder why you are held in such utter contempt.

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b951ad86-33cd-4ea3...@googlegroups.com...

[smr]

How is it not a fact that I, and others in this newsgroup, enjoy the game?
I'm not expressing an opinion that I _think_ other people enjoy, I know
this for a fact because they have said so.

Square that circle, or fuck off (into your mom).

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

Very true, there are a few members of this newsgroup that actually play the
game and they are the miniscule number of players who appear on the
SteamChart statistics.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

The FACT that their numbers are so low compared to the 'thousands' of games
claimed as sold by the developers just goes to show that virtually no one
wants to be seen playing a turd like MNO. Therefore, your opinion is
unsubstantiated while my presentation of facts remains undiluted.

You should have stuck to insults, since you obviously have no ability to
argue based on FACTS.

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:4bpe62p1cxci$.1s7ux6qtf017g$.dlg@40tude.net...

[bost...@gmail.com]

Steam is one store in our market. We sell at Matrix, Amazon and several affiliate sites.

You should consider really learning about the market and discovering how large the audience of a nav sim actually is and more importantly when and how they play. I think you'll find that Steam doesn't give you the answer.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

Well, that certainly is a contrary opinion to the keynote address from your
own chairman, JDMcNeil at your conference. He seems to see Steam as the
most significant distribution platform.

However, I can agree that you also sell a few copies a month at Amazon.
Everyone can see when a copy of MNO is sold by the change in rating. And
the sales are dismal.

Thus, poor showing it the world's largest physical distributor and the
world's largest e-distributor at the same time.

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f2be551-b284-4ed7...@googlegroups.com...

[smr]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:45:27 -0600, Herman Hum wrote:

> Very true, there are a few members of this newsgroup that actually play the
> game and they are the miniscule number of players who appear on the
> SteamChart statistics.
>
> http://steamcharts.com/app/321410
>
> The FACT that their numbers are so low compared to the 'thousands' of games
> claimed as sold by the developers just goes to show that virtually no one
> wants to be seen playing a turd like MNO. Therefore, your opinion is
> unsubstantiated while my presentation of facts remains undiluted.
>
> You should have stuck to insults, since you obviously have no ability to
> argue based on FACTS.

I'm also a member of the Something Awful forums, which has a robust
wargmaing forum/thread (much more so than this newsgroup), and the game is
held in highest regard there, actively being played by many members.

But, let me guess, that FACT doesn't matter either, because it doesn't fit
your narrative.

Countdown to the Dickhead Duo registering an account there so they can
migrate their jihad...

--
smr

[bost...@gmail.com]

JD isn't our chairman:) He's the chairman of our publisher.

You really don't seem to understand the market you talk so much about.

Mike

[Herman Hum]

Since you are unable to refute the facts presented, it is probably best for
you to run away to a forum where you can ban and delete anyone who holds you
up to ridicule. I totally agree.

However, the FACTS shown on this newsgroup continue to show that very few
players can be bothered with a garbage game like MNO.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:l5juxd8hhroh.n5m20wddub1f$.dlg@40tude.net...

[Herman Hum]

Very true. He's just the chairman of the your publishing house. Of course,
he knows nothing of the market. Well done.

I will also point out how you have failed to refute the facts placed before
you, that MNO has a poor performance on both Steam and Amazon.

Nice try at a smokescreen.

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7098058b-09f0-495b...@googlegroups.com...

[bost...@gmail.com]

I know the sales, feel comfortable that most readers know they're pretty good and understand that you don't know what you're talking about most of the time. This is because they've posted this exactly (plus or minus a few expletives).

Mike

[Herman Hum]

I know your denials and feel comfortable that readers can see how you have,
once again, failed to refute the facts placed before you.

Repeating the same baseless denial without facts is not a rebuttal.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

<bost...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c9593f5a-70e7-4682...@googlegroups.com...

[smr]

No one has been banned from that forum for having bad things to say about
C:MANO (Protip: you can see the reason for every single ban in that forum.
There haven't been any due to a post in the wargaming thread in years).

I'm also not running away anywhere, just mentioning that another group of
pretty experienced grognards seem to love the fuck out of that game. It's
not a publishers' forum or anything where the banhammer is used to enforce
product love; it's agnostic in that regard, and nobody has any issues
posting about feeling a given game is a piece of shit.

So, there's two more FACTS for you to wrap in a picture of your mom and
shove up your own lying ass.

--
smr

[Herman Hum]

So, it is a forum based totally upon lies and deceit. Good to know.

I'll stay here where I can humiliate self-important and pompous fools with
the facts and watch as they squirm every which way under the harsh light of
truth.

I notice that you are still unable to refute the horrible player numbers
associated with MNO. There simply is no way to defend a game this bad.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410


"smr" <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote in message

news:ssnlc8zr7gdr.172dqxfbt9hyt$.dlg@40tude.net...

[Holdit]

In article <5f2be551-b284-4ed7...@googlegroups.com>,
bost...@gmail.com says...

>
> You should consider really learning about the market and discovering
> how large the audience of a nav sim actually is and more importantly
> when and how they play. I think you'll find that Steam doesn't give
> you the answer.
>

Yeah, but it gives him the answer he *wants*. Herman should be a 9/11
"Truther". He's a natural. Opinion formed in advance based on personal
prejudices? Check. Cherry-picking of factoids to support claims? Check.
Ever-expanding conspiracy theory? Check. Attitude of superiority based
on being more "in the know" than anyone else? Check...

Holdit

[Herman Hum]

No, I'm a "SteamCharts Truther" because they are irrefutable. No secret
conspiracy theories required.

I notice that you are unable to refute a single fact whether they be common,
cherry-, hand-, or cotton-picked.

http://steamcharts.com/app/321410

Since all the facts provided by me are publicly available and independently
verifiable, I guess we are 'all in the know'. The difference, I guess, is
that I happen to know which items are facts and which are nothing more than
unfounded opinion.

"Holdit" <holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i> wrote in message
news:MPG.2ff3d4e1e...@news-europe.giganews.com...

[iggy]

Have you checked the review of the Steam customers? There are 82 rerviews: 70 are positive, 12 are negatives. It seems to me that Steam customers like that game. BTW have you checked your own review on Steam? I have noticed that only 12 over 36 of people found it useful.

Talking about Steam Charts, you should compare CMANO with other Slitherine/Matrix/Wargame oriented titles on Steam like: Battle Academy, Battle Academy 2, Warhammer 40k Armageddon, Vietnam 65, Pike and Shot, To End all Wars, Decisive Campaigns, Decisive Campaigns case blue, Close Combat, Alea Jacta Est. You'll notice that most of them exhibits a similar player base as CMANO. Most of them have a significantly smaller player base in Steam. BTW please take a look since Ihave wasted 10 minutes in order to check by myself.

Do you play FlashPoint Campaigns, don't you? I think it is a good game and I liked it but it is almost dead on Steam: http://steamcharts.com/app/330720

My 2 cents.

[Herman Hum]

I did read the Steam reviews, at least the ones that survived the purge.
:-)

"Herman Hum" <herm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mlrdt0$pag$1...@dont-email.me...

>>> The number of Steam reviews is misleading as I _personally_ was able to
>>> watch as negative reviews disappeared before my very eyes, when the game
>>> was
>>> released on Steam. I watched four evaporate even as I was reading them.
>>> I
>>> have no idea how many more the developers made disappear.
>>
>
> I thought the same. If I had not seen it happen before my very own eyes,
> I
> might not have believed it. I went to the list of negative MNO reviews
> and
> was going through them sequentially. I read a couple, but never got to
> finish them because, by the time I got to the end, _all_ the reviews had
> been removed.
>
> I even posted a question to support regarding this very question regarding
> game management:
>
>>> Message by you on Fri, 26th Sep 2014 16:27
>>> I received this message on my attached videos:
>
>>> "This item has been banned because it violates the Steam Terms of
>>> Service. It is only visible to you. If you believe your item has been
>>> banned mistakenly, please contact"
>
> It took a month for a reply, but Steam support sent me:
>
>>> Message by Support Tech Roland on Wed, 29th Oct 2014 6:44
>>> Hello Herman,
>
>>> We have told you that we do not moderate the content, and provided you
>>> the contact information for the support team that oversees the game and
>>> the developers forums on our site.
>
>>> You will need to contact them for assistance regarding the content they
>>> banned.
>
> Game developers on Steam are allowed to rule their fiefdoms as they like.
> Since I cannot grant anyone access to my Steam support account, you are
> free
> to pose this query to Steam support and confirm it on your own. Be
> warned,
> you will need to be persistent as it took several rounds to get this
> definitive response from them.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/ARzOigLhFYo/sH0VaXJtGgUJ

I am not worried what others think about my review. As you can see in this
very thread, not one critic has been able to point out a single problem or
inaccuracy with my review. Lots of insults, innuendo, and outright lies,
but not a single criticism based upon a factual statement.

Comparing one Steam failure with another Steam failure only shows that both
games are in the same predicament. Comparing a failure like MNO with a
successful venture like PanzerCorps is far more meaningful, as it shows how
a well designed game that is actually _fun to play_ can succeed.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/321410,268400

I play FPC quite a bit, but just because I enjoy it, does not mean that it
has not also failed on Steam. Virtually no one is playing it, either PBEM
or solitaire. At least it is a fun game to play and easy to learn. We can
discuss all the reasons why it is not doing well, but one game's failure to
succeed has no bearing on the failure of MNO on Steam. There is even a
separate thread for it that is sometimes visited by the FPC developers.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/Rq29WbX5uDk

"iggy" <riba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:71b48b3c-c9cc-4777...@googlegroups.com...

[Thewood]

Saw on Wargamer.com that Command's developers are partnering with BAE Systems for "games" for military use. Obviously, those silly defense contractors and all their money didn't read the douche review.

[Herman Hum]

Not yet, at least.

However, military services are probably paid to put up with cumbersome
un-fun garbage software like MNO. I suspect any potential military users of
MNO are going to demand combat pay to put up with atrocious User Interface
and the sickbays will soon be filled with patients suffering from Carpal
Tunnel Syndrome.

"Thewood" <kpro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:171ab508-5741-4ea2...@googlegroups.com...

[Thewood]

Doesn't matter...means more money for developers...more development.

[Thewood]

I am curious...who was banned from the Command forums?

[Herman Hum]

All those who spoke the truth about MNO and revealed how horridly it ran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQ2nitU5ow

"Thewood" <kpro...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:fe932631-bcee-461f...@googlegroups.com...