Need advice on video phone calling apps?

[T]

Hi All,

I have been googling around for a customer.

She is looking for the easiest video phone calling app
that a low skilled user can use that runs on both
android and iphone

https://time.com/4939252/best-video-calling-apps-android-iphone-pc-mac/

https://www.wikihow.tech/Make-a-Video-Call-on-Android

I think it is a toss up between:
WhatsApp Messenger, and
Google Duo

I really don't like Skype as it gives nothing but troubles
over on the Windows side of things.

My big issue is the contacts. When someone downloads
and installed one of these, does it automatically
populate in some global contacts that everyone can
see, or does the other partty need to manually
enter it themselves.

WhatsApp, talks about sending a text. Would that
populate the contracts on the other end?

Your wisdom is appreciated,

Many thanks,
-T

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

> She is looking for the easiest video phone calling app
> that a low skilled user can use that runs on both
> android and iphone

Some ideas are here...

o What is a privacy-aware cross platform free personal
video-tele-conference app to host & join meetings of about a dozen
participants discussing Great Books?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/R-sYi3b7Q2U/_i0Du3W2IAAJ>

[T]

Looks like you only tested zoom.

[s|b]

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:28:05 -0700, T wrote:

> I think it is a toss up between:
> WhatsApp Messenger, and
> Google Duo

WhatsApp (owned by Facebook) supports up to 4 people videoconferencing,
but it needs your phone number. Google Duo requires your phone number
too. There's also Google Hangouts, but I don't know if this is replaced
with Google Duo. And then there's Signal.

> My big issue is the contacts. When someone downloads
> and installed one of these, does it automatically
> populate in some global contacts that everyone can
> see, or does the other partty need to manually
> enter it themselves.

When you have WhatsApp installed all users that have your phone number
and have installed WhatsApp as well will see that you have WhatsApp.
Does that answer your question?

> WhatsApp, talks about sending a text. Would that
> populate the contracts on the other end?

If I understand you correctly: no.

--
s|b

[T]

Yes it does. Thank you!

Its encrypted too. Some really private stuff will
be going over the wire.

[kelown]

> She is looking for the easiest video phone calling app
> that a low skilled user can use that runs on both
> android and iphone

> My big issue is the contacts.  When someone downloads
> and installed one of these, does it automatically
> populate in some global contacts that everyone can
> see, or does the other partty need to manually
> enter it themselves.

Jitsi Meet (meet.jit.si

* invite via anonymous URL, no contacts or registration/login needed
* can lock video call with password
* works on any WebRTC browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari, and Edge)
* text chat option
* Android (app), Windows, Mac/iOS (app), Linux support
* screen sharing
* supports recording

[T]

Is it encrypted?

[kelown]

Yes.
https://jitsi.org/jitsi-meet

[T]

Cool. Thank you!

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

>>>> Jitsi Meet (meet.jit.si
>>>>
>>>> * invite via anonymous URL, no contacts or registration/login needed
>>>> * can lock video call with password
>>>> * works on any WebRTC browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari, and Edge)
>>>> * text chat option
>>>> * Android (app), Windows, Mac/iOS (app), Linux support
>>>> * screen sharing
>>>> * supports recording
>>>
>>> Is it encrypted?
>>
>> Yes.
>> https://jitsi.org/jitsi-meet
>>
>
> Cool. Thank you!

See also:
o Have you used Jitsi privacy aware video teleconferencing freeware?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/2kYzsqNurOc/zkjpZXERAgAJ>
--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults publicly help each other.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

> Looks like you only tested zoom.

I've tested Hangouts for years... (although I don't like Google stuff)...
o Google will support only five messaging apps (killing hangouts jepordizes free phone calls & SMS on tablets)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lvW8OoVoDhk/eoeIUbZABwAJ>

I'm also testing jitsi, which truly is open source freeware...
o But it's not what most people have heard about

Most people seem to be talking about Hangouts...
o Although Skype is advertising like hell that they're the next best thing.

See also:
o *Have you used Jitsi privacy aware video teleconferencing freeware?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/2kYzsqNurOc/zkjpZXERAgAJ>

o Please recommend a free group chatting application for windows and
android (requirements listed inside)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/7aNseTusEUY/543rXQMEsSMJ>
--
Usenet allows purposefully helpful adults to share technical solutions.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

> Its encrypted too. Some really private stuff will
> be going over the wire.

If it's _really_ private stuff, bear in mind Apple looks at everything
o Even stuff most people 'think' they don't (e.g., all uploads)

We may need to check for the details so take it with a grain of salt, that
Apple can even see your encrypted Whatsapp sessions if they want to.

There's an entire huge thread on that if you want more details:
o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, by JF Mezei
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

You should probably combine your doubleposting into one for our convenience
--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults publicly share solutions.

[nospam]

In article <r6nll2$a83$5...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote:

>
> If it's _really_ private stuff, bear in mind Apple looks at everything

false.

> o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, by JF Mezei

false.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303>
iCloud secures your information by encrypting it when it's in
transit, storing it in iCloud in an encrypted format, and using
secure tokens for authentication. For certain sensitive information,
Apple uses end-to-end encryption. This means that only you can
access your information, and only on devices where youąre signed
into iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end
encrypted information.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :

>> Note that in that long thread, somewhere, as I recall, Apple can decrypt
>> your WhatsApp content if they feel like it
>
> false, and whatsapp is not an apple product.

FACT:
"*All backed-up contact information and texts from*
*iMessage, WhatsApp and other encrypted services*
*remain available to Apple employees and authorities*"

Hi nospam,

Besides your posts _never_ being purposefully helpful...
o You're probably the best bullshitter on Usenet (that's not a compliment)

You're different from most worthless pieces of shit who post here though.
o Most of them actually _believe_ what they write.

It's clear you don't believe a single word you say on Usenet...
o Which is why guessing results of a coin toss is more accurate than you.

The problem with anything and everything you claim on Usenet, nospam...
o Is your credibility is utterly worthless.

Which means I have to do the work to check your claims, which, as the
permanent Usenet record clearly shows, shows you're almost always trying to
bullshit us.

Why do you incessantly bullshit, nospam?
o I don't know why.

I think perhaps you simply _hate_ when facts show that Apple isn't what
MARKETING told you it was, so you bullshit that it is what MARKETING fed
you to believe.

Anyway, since my credibility matters, I looked up that thread for the OP:
o
<>

Notice this post:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/vmW-cF9KDQAJ>

Which I reproduce below, verbatim, for the OP to benefit from the FACTS.
=== === === <verbatim from that post on Apple ngs> === === ===
On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 19:04:38 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

>> Exclusive: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI
>> complained - sources
>
>>> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT
>
>> (This on top of the fact that Apple does does AI analysis of your photos
>> to detect photos of people under age of 18).
>
> WTF are you talking about?

JF Mezei is not an apologists ... but Lewis is, where... as always
o Apologists like Lewis prove to be _ignorant_ of even the basic facts.

SIMPLE FACT:

I already reported on the fact Apple scans (even encrypted) iCloud photos:
o Apple has confirmed it's automatically scanning images backed up to
iCloud

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/VkODI4K1SC8>
Where it's clear Lewis' belief system is based (yet again) on ignorance.

Intelligent people (i.e., not Lewis) noted that this change came at least
as of the 9 May 2019 update to Apple's privacy policy:
"We may... use your personal information for account
and network security purposes, *including in order to*
*protect our services for the benefit of all our users*,
*and pre-screening or scanning uploaded content*"

The supposedly "new" news in JF Mezei's thread is apparently this article:
o *Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained*
<https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT>

Where the salient data points appear to be:
1. "More than two years ago, Apple told the FBI that it planned to
offer users end-to-end encryption when storing their phone data
on iCloud"

2. "Under that plan... Apple would no longer have a key to unlock
the encrypted data, meaning it would not be able to turn material
over to authorities in a readable form even under court order."

3. "The FBI's cyber crime agents and its operational technology division
objected to the plan, arguing it would deny them the most effective
means for gaining evidence"

4. "The following year, [Apple's] end-to-end encryption plan had been
dropped...Legal killed it... the company did not want to risk being
attacked by public officials for protecting criminals...
*They decided they weren't going to poke the bear anymore...*"

"Once the decision was made, the 10 or so experts on the Apple encryption
project - variously code-named Plesio and KeyDrop - were told to stop
working on the effort"

"Instead of protecting all of iCloud with end-to-end encryption, Apple has
shifted to focus on protecting some of the most sensitive user
information,
such as saved passwords and health data."

"*But backed-up contact information and texts from*
*iMessage, WhatsApp and other encrypted services*
*remain available to Apple employees and authorities*"

See also tutorials for using "encrypted file containers" on iOS:
o Best freeware for portable encrypted file containers
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8GGgFKaW-70/WCXEXfVYBAAJ>

o Do people of technical ability store their private data on the Internet
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/E0TkTd-zLuk/fF1RRv51AwAJ>
--
Apologists like Lewis always prove by what they write to be immune to
fact.

[T]

Oh Crap. I just got a new requirement thrown at me. It
needs to be HIPPA compliant

[T]

Found this. It is HIPAA compliant and is
only teleconferencing, not a whole business
suite:https://www.simplepractice.com/telehealth-simplepractice

https://doxy.me/
https://tokbox.com/developer/tools/precall/

For a whole doc in the box, these guys seem good:
https://www.simplepractice.com/

Your thoughts?

[T]

Doesn't say it is HIPAA compliant. Rats!

[T]

On 2020-04-10 00:31, T wrote:

> Found this.  It is HIPAA compliant and is
> only teleconferencing, not a whole business
> suite:https://www.simplepractice.com/telehealth-simplepractice

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ typo

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

What is HIPPA?

I tried looking it up, and posted what I think it "might" be, over in your
alt.comp.os.windows-10 thread on the same subject.

What's HIPPA?
--
Every Usenet article should strive to add technically useful value.

[Carlos E.R.]

Google has just prohibited their employees of using zoom. It is highly
insecure.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

Then I would consider Telegram instead. Oops, sorry, no videocalls, just
calls. Or messages.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 09/04/2020 13.32, kelown wrote:
>
>> She is looking for the easiest video phone calling app
>> that a low skilled user can use that runs on both
>> android and iphone
>
>> My big issue is the contacts.  When someone downloads
>> and installed one of these, does it automatically
>> populate in some global contacts that everyone can
>> see, or does the other partty need to manually
>> enter it themselves.
>
> Jitsi Meet (meet.jit.si

Just now I see a warning from regional police here against both Zoom and
Jitsi.

They say Jitsy has weak password access. CVE-2017-5603

And in the case of Europeans, both may break our data protection laws.



--
Cheers, Carlos.

[T]

On 2020-04-08 20:28, T wrote:

Followup:

The customer only wanted video conferencing and not a
whole office suite.

I downloaded and installed
https://doxy.me/
which is HIPAA compliant.

It was EXTREMELY easy to use. The wanted $35/mo
to enable the text invitation feature.

The customer is low computer skill but took to
it almost instantly.

It supports anything that can run Chrome and
has a microphone, camera, and speakers.

Thank you all for he wisdom and tips!

-T

[T]

Zoom gets a lot of smack out there

[T]

On 2020-04-10 12:28, Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :
>
>> On 2020-04-10 00:31, T wrote:
>>
>>> Found this.  It is HIPAA compliant and is
>>> only teleconferencing, not a whole business
>>> suite:https://www.simplepractice.com/telehealth-simplepractice
>>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ typo
>
> What is HIPPA?
>
> I tried looking it up, and posted what I think it "might" be, over in your
> alt.comp.os.windows-10 thread on the same subject.
>
> What's HIPPA?

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act

It is to protect patient privacy. You can get your ass
fined really badly if you do not comply

[The Real Bev]

On 04/10/2020 02:27 PM, T wrote:
> On 2020-04-10 12:28, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :
>>
>>> On 2020-04-10 00:31, T wrote:
>>>
>>>> Found this. It is HIPAA compliant and is
>>>> only teleconferencing, not a whole business
>>>> suite:https://www.simplepractice.com/telehealth-simplepractice
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ typo
>>
>> What is HIPPA?
>>
>> I tried looking it up, and posted what I think it "might" be, over in your
>> alt.comp.os.windows-10 thread on the same subject.
>>
>> What's HIPPA?

HIPAA.

> Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act
>
> It is to protect patient privacy. You can get your ass
> fined really badly if you do not comply

One more form to fill out. I'd be happy if it were easier for ME to get
my own records, but NOOOOO! Some of the "patient portals" are so awful
it's hard to believe that an actual professional designed them. "Hey,
let's save some money, my grandson just took a class..."

--
Cheers, Bev
Todd Flanders' hobbies include being quiet on long rides,
clapping to songs and diabetes.

[The Real Bev]

What does that mean? People can eavesdrop? Steal your passwords? Make
your phone blow up in your hand?

[nospam]

In article <r6qp1s$gdq$2...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > Google has just prohibited their employees of using zoom. It is highly
> > insecure.
>
> What does that mean? People can eavesdrop? Steal your passwords? Make
> your phone blow up in your hand?

yes to the first two.

<https://www.windowscentral.com/zoom-vulnerability-can-leak-your-windows-
login-name-and-password>

and it's not just google. many others, including nasa, spacex, apple,
new york schools, taiwan, singapore, germany and the united states
senate, have banned or greatly restricted its use.

[sms]

On 4/10/2020 2:39 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 04/10/2020 02:05 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 09/04/2020 06.06, T wrote:
>>> On 2020-04-08 20:45, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> In response to what T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>> She is looking for the easiest video phone calling app
>>>>> that a low skilled user can use that runs on both
>>>>> android and iphone
>>>>
>>>> Some ideas are here...
>>>> o  What is a privacy-aware cross platform free personal
>>>> video-tele-conference app to host & join meetings of about a dozen
>>>> participants discussing Great Books?
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/R-sYi3b7Q2U/_i0Du3W2IAAJ>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like you only tested zoom.
>>
>> Google has just prohibited their employees of using zoom. It is highly
>> insecure.
>
> What does that mean?  People can eavesdrop?  Steal your passwords?  Make
> your phone blow up in your hand?

The critical security flaw in Zoom was only in the MacOS version. The
problem with the other versions was that Zoom was data mining and
selling data.

I am using Zoom extensively. The issue we are careful about is "Zoom
Bombing" where someone gets the credentials to log into a call or
webinar and then shares porn on their screen. But there are multiple
ways to prevent this sort of thing. First and foremost are password
protected meetings. You can also have a meeting where "employees" and
"visitors" have different permissions.

One reason that Google is dumping Zoom for its employees is that Zoom is
a direct competitor to its "Meet" app.

It's odd that Zoom, a relative newcomer, has become so popular so fast,
compared to GoToMeeting, and WebEx.

[nospam]

In article <r6r18l$q1$1...@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> >>
> >> Google has just prohibited their employees of using zoom. It is highly
> >> insecure.
> >
> > What does that mean?  People can eavesdrop?  Steal your passwords?  Make
> > your phone blow up in your hand?
>
> The critical security flaw in Zoom was only in the MacOS version. The
> problem with the other versions was that Zoom was data mining and
> selling data.

zoom on all platforms have numerous security flaws.

there was a major security flaw on the mac nearly a year ago which left
a web server running allowing anyone to activate the camera, which zoom
claimed was a feature. security researchers and apple thought
otherwise, so apple pushed an os update to neuter it, as they do with
other malware. at that point, zoom had little choice but to fix it.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote :

> Just now I see a warning from regional police here against both Zoom and
> Jitsi.
>
> They say Jitsy has weak password access. CVE-2017-5603
>
> And in the case of Europeans, both may break our data protection laws.

Hi Carlos,

How about Jami?

o Jami
<https://jami.net/>

"Jami is a free and universal communication platform
which preserves the user's privacy and freedoms."
--
Usenet is a place for adults to gather to politely discuss solutions.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote :

> One more form to fill out. I'd be happy if it were easier for ME to get
> my own records, but NOOOOO! Some of the "patient portals" are so awful
> it's hard to believe that an actual professional designed them. "Hey,
> let's save some money, my grandson just took a class..."

Thanks to T for explaining, where I had never heard the acronym before and
hence, when I looked it up, I wasn't sure what it was.

I _still_ don't know what makes a teleconference app compliant so I'll step
out of that part of the conversation, as I suspect it has to do with
encryption and privacy policies.
--

[Carlos E.R.]

Yes, possibly, but other companies have warned against zoom. Even police
forces.

I have not studied the concerns, but I have to conclude that they are real.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[T]

On 2020-04-11 06:31, Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote :
>
>> One more form to fill out.  I'd be happy if it were easier for ME to
>> get my own records, but NOOOOO!  Some of the "patient portals" are so
>> awful it's hard to believe that an actual professional designed them.
>> "Hey, let's save some money, my grandson just took a class..."
>
> Thanks to T for explaining, where I had never heard the acronym before and
> hence, when I looked it up, I wasn't sure what it was.
>
> I _still_ don't know what makes a teleconference app compliant so I'll step
> out of that part of the conversation, as I suspect it has to do with
> encryption and privacy policies.

Under HIPAA, the videoconference provider is not allow to
keep or mine any of the data that went back and forth.