Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?

[Arlen Holder]

Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?

This thread is an offshoot of this recent discussion:
o What Data Do They Find On Android If One Doesn't Do Texting?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/2Z5aW22MpZo/BL5UiJh3AQAJ>

I love facts; so I would love someone to prove me wrong ... with facts.

I posit that there's _nothing_ (that I can think of) that you _need_ to do
on Android that you can't already do WITHOUT setting up a Google Account in
the Android OS itself.

Note that I'm not saying that a "Google Account" isn't useful (e.g., it
provides for a spam-free email for example); but that you can still get
that functionality WITHOUT explicitly putting your Google Account into the
OS itself (which then adds undesirable things such as the Advertiser ID).

In summary, without pointing the Android OS to a "Google Account"...
a. You can still get Google Mail (e.g., using any MUA other than GMail)
b. You can still use Google Maps (you just can no longer save offline maps)
c. You can still scrape Google Play (e.g., Aurora downloads APKs just fine)
etc.

I love facts - where I don't know of ANY reason you _need_ to set the
Android phone up with a Google Account in the Android OS.

Do you?

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> I don't know of ANY reason you_need_ to set the

> Android phone up with a Google Account in the Android OS.

If you have a google account for your android, then you can have
googlevoice for that phone and use that phone via wifi instead of cellular.

One of my own phones doesn't even have a cellular plan.

I'm currently 'breaking in' an android smart phone I'm planning on
giving to a relative which has both a cell plan AND a google account and
can call either way, by cellular or by wifi. It will probably end up
with a cheap plan and all of its calls will be by wifi and it will not
be used as a mobile phone nor for data.

The situation is rather complicated, so this is an unusual or 'niche' use.




--
Mike Easter

[Ned Latham]

KenW wrote:
>
> Google can backup your phone.

So can your home computer. And the verb is "back up", not "backup".

> I have used that twice with new phones.

And Google have all the data you backed up. They're happy.

[Libor Striz]

Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> Wrote in message:
> KenW wrote:

>> Google can backup your phone.So can your home computer. And the verb is "back up", not "backup".

I have used that twice with new phones.And Google have all the

data you backed up. They're happy.

Google can even use your Android.

There is not addressed schizofrenia of not touching anything
Google put hands on by 2 m rod, yet using OS from
Google.

--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )

[Piet]

Ned Latham wrote:
> KenW wrote:
>> Google can backup your phone.
>
> So can your home computer.

With proper software, maker's or third party.

> And the verb is "back up", not "backup".

In this part of the universe it's "backup".

-p

[nospam]

In article <qt5bdv$1d1k$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Piet

<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:

> > And the verb is "back up", not "backup".
>
> In this part of the universe it's "backup".

back up is a verb; backup is a noun, the result of backing up.

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/backup>

[Ned Latham]

Piet wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > KenW wrote:
> > >
> > > Google can backup your phone.
> >
> > So can your home computer.
>
> With proper software, maker's or third party.

Der.

> > And the verb is "back up", not "backup".
>
> In this part of the universe it's "backup".

Let's know when you get to Earth. There are still people here who
speak English.

[tim...]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:qt3m8e$22i$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?

because they decide that you have to

it won't update if you don't

Of course, you could live without updates

tim

[123456789]

Ned Latham wrote:
> Piet wrote:
>> Ned Latham wrote:

>>>> Google can backup your phone.

>>> And the verb is "back up", not "backup".

>> In this part of the universe it's "backup".

> Let's know when you get to Earth. There are still people here who
> speak English.

Usenet English cops are assholes.

Did I get that sentence right?

[Ned Latham]

KenW wrote in <qqdcve535dfi10fac...@4ax.com>:

> At my age I don't want a teacher.

I'm not offering.

> If you have nothing better to say GO
> AWAY.

And I wasn't speaking to you. Mind your own bloody business.

> Yes I have used my computers to backup everything,

Back everything up.

> but for Android,
> Google is easier.

You're a fool. Backing up with google or any other claoud provider
is like letting them into your house to do all the snooping they
like.

> I just retired an Apple ipad and I used Apple
> iTunes and a purchased program iMazing.
>
> If I was to not trust (Who I don't trust) Google, I would worry when
> they hire 100k plus to read all the data.

They don't neede to do that, you idiot.

[Ned Latham]

123456789 wrote in <qt5h7l$ipd$1...@dont-email.me>:

No.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:57:14 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> If you have a google account for your android, then you can have
> googlevoice for that phone and use that phone via wifi instead of cellular.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for hazarding a guess where I know how dangerous that is on Usenet.

It's two different things altogether we have to keep in mind:
1. Setting the OS to a Google Account & then using, oh, say, Gmail.
2. NOT setting the OS & then using, oh, say, K-9 pointing to Gmail.

In the first case above, all sorts of bad (privacy) things happen.
In the latter case, _fewer_ bad things happen (e.g., no advertiser ID).

Notice the latter case is how all iOS devices work with Google Accounts.
And, the latter case is how all PCs work with Google Accounts (AFAIK).

My question is why not do the latter setup on Android?
The advantage is that a _lot_ of privacy leaks are instantly avoided.
(Not all - but a lot - such as automatic syncing of contacts.)

With respect to the Google Voice app...

I "think" perhaps maybe we can _still_ log into Google Voice (on Android)
without setting up the phone OS to have a "google account"... mainly
because I do it all the time on the iPad (but I'd have to test this out on
Android).

My query to you is, while I haven't recently tried Google Voice or Hangouts
on Android, why can't the Google Voice app on Android just "log in" to your
Google Account just like any other Android app does (e.g., just like any
non-google MUA would do such as K-9 Mail)?

I also haven't tried it on the PC, but why can't a PC log into your Google
Account without having to set the PC to have a Google Account (i.e., it's
the same problem set as on Android & on the iPad, as far as I can tell)?

I'll need to test this, but my query to you is why can't Android Google
Voice simply log into your Google Account just like on the iPad & PC?

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> If you have a google account for your android, then you can have
>> googlevoice for that phone and use that phone via wifi instead of cellular.

Recall that your original qx was 'why would anyone need to setup the
android to a google account' which I interpreted as also meaning what
would be the advantage to setting up a google account on the android.

I did NOT interpret the qx as meaning, "Let's talk about the
disadvantages of setting up a google account." ... which is a different
issue altogether.

>
> It's two different things altogether we have to keep in mind:
> 1. Setting the OS to a Google Account & then using, oh, say, Gmail.
> 2. NOT setting the OS & then using, oh, say, K-9 pointing to Gmail.

That is another subject altogether. A person could have a google
account but NOT integrate it w/ the android.

>
> I "think" perhaps maybe we can _still_ log into Google Voice (on Android)
> without setting up the phone OS to have a "google account"... mainly
> because I do it all the time on the iPad (but I'd have to test this out on
> Android).
>
> My query to you is, while I haven't recently tried Google Voice or Hangouts
> on Android, why can't the Google Voice app on Android just "log in" to your
> Google Account just like any other Android app does (e.g., just like any
> non-google MUA would do such as K-9 Mail)?

Google voice's design is described somewhere in GV help that explains
how the GV becomes integrated w/ the phone and becomes a GV *device*.

The mechanism for doing that involves installing the android GV app and
also integrating the android w/ GV.

I attempted to do that using the android as a browser but I was unable
to make calls in that manner. GV said it was unable to connect the call.

> I also haven't tried it on the PC, but why can't a PC log into your Google
> Account without having to set the PC to have a Google Account (i.e., it's
> the same problem set as on Android & on the iPad, as far as I can tell)?
>
> I'll need to test this, but my query to you is why can't Android Google
> Voice simply log into your Google Account just like on the iPad & PC?
>

Android browser can log into your google account; but android google
voice needs to be properly integrated to make calls that way. When
integrated, you can make calls either way; by carrier or by GV. If not
integrated, you can't - only by carrier.

--
Mike Easter

[s|b]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:25:25 -0600, Ned Latham wrote:

> So can your home computer. And the verb is "back up", not "backup".

Check out the Spelling Nazi! :-o

































Godwin!

--
s|b

[Alek]

Last entry:

"also *: *the act or an instance of making a backup"

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:12:43 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> Recall that your original qx was 'why would anyone need to setup the
> android to a google account' which I interpreted as also meaning what
> would be the advantage to setting up a google account on the android.

Hi Mike,
I see. You're answering a completely different question than I asked.

I don't think there is _anyone_ who doesn't know what they get by setting
up the Android phone the way Google _wants_ you to set it up.

But this question not about setting up Android how Google wants you to.
It's about setting it up WITHOUT pointing the OS to the Google Account.

That's my fault for not being clear, since there are clearly _tons_ of
advantages of setting the Android OS to a "Google Account" for people who
are _not_ trying to keep their data out of the hands of Google.

Offhand, some of those advantages of Google Accounts in the OS might be:
1. Contacts are backed up to Google Servers
2. Gmail is automatically set up for Google Servers
3. Your photos & videos are pushed to Google Servers
4. Your personal calendar is pushed to Google Servers
5. Your YouTube subscriptions are tied to the Google Account
6. Even your Google Play apps are kept track of by Google Servers

etc.

> I did NOT interpret the qx as meaning, "Let's talk about the
> disadvantages of setting up a google account." ... which is a different
> issue altogether.

It's not that either. :)

The question was intended to flesh out what you can't do if you don't have
a Google Account set up in the Android OS, that you want to do.

For example, even without associating the Google Account with the OS...
1. You have full access to email
2. You have full access to contacts
3. You have full access to backing up your photos & videos
4. You have full access to your calendar
5. You have full access to the YouTube functionality
6. You even have full access APKs & to all your backed up app APKs
etc.

My question is a fact-based question of what functionality would you LOSE
if you did NOT set up the Android OS to point to a Google Account.

Note you can still have a Google Account, just like you do on Windows,
Linux, MacOS, or iOS; you just don't set it as the Android OS account.

>> It's two different things altogether we have to keep in mind:
>> 1. Setting the OS to a Google Account & then using, oh, say, Gmail.
>> 2. NOT setting the OS & then using, oh, say, K-9 pointing to Gmail.
>
> That is another subject altogether. A person could have a google
> account but NOT integrate it w/ the android.

Exactly.

I've been running Android without a Google Account for a while now, where
Google Voice is a reasonably good suggestion to test.

> Google voice's design is described somewhere in GV help that explains
> how the GV becomes integrated w/ the phone and becomes a GV *device*.
>
> The mechanism for doing that involves installing the android GV app and
> also integrating the android w/ GV.
>
> I attempted to do that using the android as a browser but I was unable
> to make calls in that manner. GV said it was unable to connect the call.
>

> Android browser can log into your google account; but android google
> voice needs to be properly integrated to make calls that way. When
> integrated, you can make calls either way; by carrier or by GV. If not
> integrated, you can't - only by carrier.

Ah, Google Voice does strange things indeed.
o You're right.

I just tested Google Voice with no Google Account set up in the OS itself.
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.googlevoice>

Since I don't have a Google Account set up in the OS on the phone, I had to
use the Aurora Store or an APK mirror to obtain the APK which I list here:
o <https://www.apkmirror.com/?&s=com.google.android.apps.googlevoice>

After installing that Google Voice APK, it asked me to "sign in", where it
first spent a few seconds "checking the account" (which was almost
certainly its attempt to find the non-existent "google account" in the OS.

Then it gave me a perfectly normal google sign-in screen where I signed in
with a bogus Google Account made expressly for this purpose, and again, it
spun around with a "Checking Info" dialog screen.

At that point I had to turn off all the Google Account privacy options
(e.g., back up to Google Drive), and then it automatically ASSOCIATED that
Google Voice account to the phone OS! (Against my wishes!)

Then it asked to "Link this device to Google Voice", and so on.

In summary, it looks like you can't just "log in" into Google Voice like
you can, oh, say, K-9 Mail, using the Google Account simply because the
very act of "logging into" Google Voice on Android _creates_ a Google
Account association in the Android 9 Setting for Accounts.

It's easy enough to remove that account association with the OS, but then,
apparently, you can't use Google Voice. You can use _other_ VOIP solutions,
but Google Voice is a pretty good one for sure.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:24:21 -0000, tim... wrote:

>> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
>> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?
>
> because they decide that you have to
>
> it won't update if you don't
>
> Of course, you could live without updates

All I care about are the facts.

I asked the question because I feel there isn't (yet) any functionality I
need to do that I can't do WITHOUT pointing the OS to a Google Account.

(A) For "updates", the Android OS seems to update just fine without
pointing the OS to a Google Account.

(B) Also, for "APK updates", both Google Play (via Aurora) and F-Droid apps
seem to update just fine without pointing the OS to a Google Account.

Given those two facts, what "updates" are you implying might not happen if
we don't point the Android OS to a Google Account?

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 05:14:28 -0700, KenW wrote:

> Google can backup your phone.I have used that twice with new phones.
> Put everything back on the new one.

Hi KenW,

Thanks for that suggestion, where if you _want_ Google to back up your data
to their cloud, certainly setting the Android OS to a Google Account will
start that process.

But the whole point of this question is to NOT have Google backup working.

The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).

So I would think backing up data does not require a Google Account set up
within the OS of the phone itself.

If facts prove me wrong, then that's what I seek though.

[nospam]

In article <qt6nq1$53a$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> I don't think there is _anyone_ who doesn't know what they get by setting
> up the Android phone the way Google _wants_ you to set it up.

you don't.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:33:57 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> I don't think there is _anyone_ who doesn't know what they get by setting
>> up the Android phone the way Google _wants_ you to set it up.
>
> you don't.

Someday you'll post as if you're an actual adult, nospam.
o But apparently not today.

You survive on the iOS newsgroups because they too act like children
o But you get your head handed to you on the adult newsgroups.

[Piet]

Earth speaking here. Maybe you should visit this planet.

-p

[Frank Slootweg]

But to confuse things, they put it under the header "backup noun", so
apparently they don't know the difference between a noun and a verb
either! :-)

To stay somewhat on topic, also Google is confused, because it calls
its Windows client software for Google Drive "Backup and Sync from
Google". In that context, 'Sync' is a verb ((to) synchronize), so
'Backup' must be a verb as well! QED. :-)

[Mayayana]

"Frank Slootweg" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| >
| > "also *: *the act or an instance of making a backup"
|
| But to confuse things, they put it under the header "backup noun", so
| apparently they don't know the difference between a noun and a verb
| either! :-)
|
| To stay somewhat on topic, also Google is confused, because it calls
| its Windows client software for Google Drive "Backup and Sync from
| Google". In that context, 'Sync' is a verb ((to) synchronize), so
| 'Backup' must be a verb as well! QED. :-)

Why am I not surprised that a non-native speaker
has to step in to clear this up.... or artfully confuse it.? :)

[tim...]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote in message

news:qt6nq2$53a$2...@news.mixmin.net...

> On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:24:21 -0000, tim... wrote:
>
>>> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
>>> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without
>>> it?
>>
>> because they decide that you have to
>>
>> it won't update if you don't
>>
>> Of course, you could live without updates
>
> All I care about are the facts.
>
> I asked the question because I feel there isn't (yet) any functionality I
> need to do that I can't do WITHOUT pointing the OS to a Google Account.
>
> (A) For "updates", the Android OS seems to update just fine without
> pointing the OS to a Google Account.

lucky you,

mine didn't

or rather it didn't tell me that there were any updates

I don't know if I could have manually looked for them

tim

[Frank Slootweg]

<blush!>

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:05:11 -0000, tim... wrote:

> lucky you,
>
> mine didn't
>
> or rather it didn't tell me that there were any updates
>
> I don't know if I could have manually looked for them

Hi tim,

I'm all about facts.
o I asked the question to garner the facts.

Hence I appreciate that you explained what happens on your system.

I'm no expert at this "update" stuff simply 'cuz I generally don't update
all that much because I've seen too many programs start out well (like ES
File Explorer, for example), and then go rogue on us.

Same thing happens on the PC (e.g., CCleaner, Super, etc.) where, if
there's no reason to update, I don't update.

Nonetheless, I can update Android anytime I want, even though I don't have
the Android OS set to a Google Account.

Given that the vast majority of my apps are from F-Droid, you'll note that
the F-Droid app has a button has these buttons on the bottom of the GUI:
(latest, categories, Nearby, Updates, & Settings).

When I press "Updates", that F-Droid app says:
"Congratulations, your apps are up to date"
And F-Droid doesn't use 'no stinkin' Google Account set up in the OS. :)

Likewise with "Aurora Store", which has three buttons on the bottom, namely
"Home", "Apps", & "Search", where pressing "Apps" shows two columns, namely
"Updates" and "Installed", where mine says "34 updates available", and has
a button saying "update all", and again, I don't have no stinkin' Google
Account set up in the OS.

One thing I don't seem to get, nor do I ever want, are "badges" telling me
on the homescreen that updates are available (I hate that iOS nags me that
way), as if I wanted to update, I would update - but I generally don't want
to update.

Likewise with the Android OS update, where I just pressed
Settings > System > Advanced > System Updates > Checking for update...
"Your device is up-to-date, Android version: 9, Security patch level..."

I realize a lot of people are scared to not do what Google tells them to
do, where I believe there is an upside to NOT pointing the OS to the Google
Account (whether or not you have a Google Account).

The _only_ apps that won't work are some of the Google Apps, where every
one of them (AFAIK) has a perfectly good workaround, save, perhaps, for
Google Voice (but certainly there must be a VOIP that is as good as GV).

For Google Play, the Aurora Store is the same thing, only better.
For YouTube, F-Pipe is worlds better (there's no comparison).
For GMail, there are plenty of available MUAs.
Google Maps doesn't need you to log in but you could if you wanted to.
There are plenty of non-Google calendars, contact managers, SMS apps, etc.

Given that evidence, I'd say that updates of apps & the OS do NOT need you
to set the OS to a Google Account.

In short, the only thing we can find that _needs_ the OS set to a Google
Account seems to be Google Voice (thanks to Mike Easter's suggestion),
which, incidentally, actually _sets_ the OS to the Google Account that you
log into Google Voice with.

So the two apps to avoid are "Google Voice" and "Gmail" (which
automatically syncs contacts, apparently, whether you want it to or not).

I love facts, so I hope others keep pitching in as the whole goal is to
divorce from Google without losing any major functionality.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 16/12/2019 02.48, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 05:14:28 -0700, KenW wrote:
>
>> Google can backup your phone.I have used that twice with new phones.
>> Put everything back on the new one.
>
> Hi KenW,
>
> Thanks for that suggestion, where if you _want_ Google to back up your data
> to their cloud, certainly setting the Android OS to a Google Account will
> start that process.
>
> But the whole point of this question is to NOT have Google backup working.
>
> The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
> photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
> phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).

NOT easily.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 14/12/2019 23.03, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?

Nice google tools.

Easier life.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:40:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
>> photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
>> phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).
>
> NOT easily.

Hi Carlos,

Local backup is trivial, on all platforms (other than on iOS, IMHO).
o You just need to be intelligent about the backup process & app selection.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so all data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).

We go way back so I'll tread carefully with the facts.
1. I back up Windows all the time
2. I back up Linux all the time.
3. I back up my iPads all the time.
4. I back up my Androids all the time.

As you may recall from the Windows newsgroup, there are fundamentally three
kinds of backup, as I see them.
1. Backing up the "Royal mess" (data scattered everywhere)
2. The "Scared Shitless" dd bit-for-bit copy essentially of apps & data
3. Backing up a well-organized data hierarchy (a single data directory)

Obviously most people use #1, where they can't even _find_ their data most
of the time; while a lot of the scared-shitless people use #2 where they're
so afraid of their apps that they insist on everything being copied,
including the apps.

Me?

I maintain a well-organized hierarchy on all platforms (it's hardest on
iOS, next hardest on Android, almost simplest on Linux, and simplest on
Windows) - which is _trivial_ to back up, since all the work is done by
organizing things.

For example, see:
o What's the best way to MOVE an app to where it belongs, after it has already been installed?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/hqKijRgHOC0/vB3pH-sZAgAJ>

Notice it takes intelligence & understanding & most of all, forethought!
o Is there a way to get Google Play to cough up the .apk file?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/-XsfPuMqopY/I6MH_lRaAgAJ>

Essentially, any data I care about, goes into the "data" hierarchy; while
any apps I care about have their initial installers saved into the
"software" hierarchy; and, in addition, on the PC, every program is
installed in the "apps" hierarchy, where all menus are maintained in the
"data" hierarchy such that the exact same menu (literally, the exact
folders and shortcuts that worked on Windows XP worked just fine in Windows
7 and on Windows 10 (plenty of tutorials I've written on that topic)).

See, for example:
o Tutorial for setting up a well-organized consistent efficient Windows menu system
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/eWU-jOkFRtU/lkVU8yolBQAJ>

So, on Windows & Linux and Android, you simply back up the "data"
hierarchy, and you're done for the data. Then you back up the "software"
hierarchy, and you're done for the apps. The menus come over EXACTLY and
work exactly after the re-install of the operating system (yes, even on
Android, since nova free handles that homescreen menu perfectly).

I accept that there may be nobody else on the planet who knows how to do
what I know how to do; but without hubris, I state that I've written
_plenty_ of tutorials to show people how to back up this easily, so if they
think it can't be done, they simply haven't read (or understood) what those
tutorials showed them how to do.

In short, on Android, I only need to back up two hiearchies:
a. /sdcard0/data0/*
b. /sdcard1/data1/*

Of course, apps have to be chosen intelligently (e.g., they need to be able
to change the DCIM location, or the APK backup location, or the map and
waypoint file locations, or the downloaded files location, or the SMS
communications & particularly the MMS attachments, etc.) which is the
second part of this three part system.

Part I: Organize the hierarchy so data you care about is in "data".
Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).

--
Note you need to be intelligent about your backup process & app selection.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:44:07 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
>> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have without it?
>
> Nice google tools.
>
> Easier life.

Hi Carlos,

I agree with you in that I don't doubt for a moment that for people to
exactly follow the highly marketed cloud providers' suggestion to forever
rent their private data back from the cloud providers themselves, is
"easier" than actually thinking about keeping their personal data local.
o Google adds the ability to automatically store & manage device backups through Google One (via subscription)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/v6S1AFFLr0c/nfKWRfYIBAAJ>

Most people, IMHO, simply give up on intelligent backup (on most platforms):
o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.

See this thread for more details on why people do what they often do...
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ>

[David Wade]

How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.

Even if I had time there are 100 apps on my phone. Many, e.g. Uber,
Careem, WeightWatchers, Ikea, Central Heating controller App (Draytek
Wiser) don't have any equivalents on F-Droid.

So yes, I could avoid a google account, but in doing so its like tying
one hand behind my back. I really just want to use it.

Of course part of the price I pay is that I get adds targetted to what
google thinks I need.

Even worse still I see folks who haven't set up a cloud account and who
then loose their phones and are aghast that their memories are all gone.

Simply setting up a cloud account, google, onedrive or dropbox would
mean all this was saved....

Dave
G4UGM

[Carlos E.R.]

On 17/12/2019 18.25, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:40:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>> The "functionality" of backing up apps, data, contacts, calendar, files,
>>> photos, videos, etc., is easily done WITHOUT a Google Account set up on the
>>> phone (I back everything up to the sdcard for example).
>>
>> NOT easily.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Local backup is trivial, on all platforms (other than on iOS, IMHO).
> o You just need to be intelligent about the backup process & app selection.
>
> Part I: Organize the hierarchy so all data you care about is in "data".
> Part II: Save all your app installers (the exact versions) automatically.
> Part III: Re-use your menu system across all similar devices (literally).

Let's see...

You took more than 50 words to explain it. That is *too complex*

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 18/12/2019 00.28, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/12/2019 17:25, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:44:07 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>>> Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
>>>> o What FUNCTIONALITY does that garner you that you don't have
>>>> without it?
>>>
>>> Nice google tools.
>>>
>>> Easier life.
>>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> I agree with you in that I don't doubt for a moment that for people to
>> exactly follow the highly marketed cloud providers' suggestion to forever
>> rent their private data back from the cloud providers themselves, is
>> "easier" than actually thinking about keeping their personal data local.
>> o Google adds the ability to automatically store & manage device
>> backups through Google One (via subscription)
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/v6S1AFFLr0c/nfKWRfYIBAAJ>
>>
>>
>> Most people, IMHO, simply give up on intelligent backup (on most
>> platforms):
>> o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.

I very much doubt that. Not easy nor trivial. Trivial is seeking a
button on a phone just purchased and push it.

>> See this thread for more details on why people do what they often do...
>> o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data
>> on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ>
>>
>>
>
> How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
> professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
> to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.
>
> Even if I had time there are 100 apps on my phone. Many, e.g. Uber,
> Careem, WeightWatchers, Ikea, Central Heating controller App (Draytek
> Wiser) don't have any equivalents on F-Droid.
>
> So yes, I could avoid a google account, but in doing so its like tying
> one hand behind my back. I really just want to use it.

Right.

> Of course part of the price I pay is that I get adds targetted to what
> google thinks I need.

I may keep a few things out of google noses, but very few.

>
> Even worse still I see folks who haven't set up a cloud account and who
> then loose their phones and are aghast that their memories are all gone.

Indeed...

>
> Simply setting up a cloud account, google, onedrive or dropbox would
> mean all this was saved....

If I were that worried about privacy I would not use a smartphone, or
I'd try to find a Linux one. I would use a plain phone and a tablet or
palm-top computer.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Mayayana]

"Chronos" <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote

| It's only a matter of time before everything is online and variable
| pricing according to likelihood of ongoing revenue becomes a thing.

It's my understanding that personalized pricing has already been
happening. Here's an article from 2013, referencing cases as far
back as 2000:

https://lifehacker.com/how-web-sites-vary-prices-based-on-your-information-an-5973689

These days, of course, it's far more sophisticated. Anyone who's
not making a substantial effort to protect their privacy is being
tracked by the likes of Google and Facebook in nearly everything
they do. And that's *without* having Google or Facebook accounts.
With those people are turning over most details of their lives to
these companies. So a site can price a vacation package based
on how much you want to take that trip, because they can guess.

I don't shop online but I can see the difference in search.
Remember when Google started out, and you could use them
to find all pages that included specific words? Now it's not
only person-specific but the "long tail" of the Internet that
doesn't sell stuff and advertise with Google is nearly invisible.

Not that I use Google for search. But even duckduckgo has
become more commercial.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:10:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> How many Android users have the ability to o that. I am a competent IT
>> professional. I think that in order to do what you say would require me
>> to spend considerable time week planing and executing it.

The dumber your neighbors on Android/iOS, the more YOUR privacy is leaked.

I'm not sure who is the "competent IT professional" since I didn't "see"
this post anywhere except in Carlos' response, but it's certainly not
Carlos who is competent as an IT professional, that's for sure.
[Carlos claimed he can't handle any spec containing greater than 50 words.]

Anyway, to further flesh out the answer the question, assuming it was about
something I said would enhance privacy, I think _all_ Android users (every
single one) can enhance their privacy by removing Google as much as they
can on a non-rooted Android device.

However, once we get to rooting, _then_ I do agree that most people can not
do what might be needed for privacy enhancement.

> I may keep a few things out of google noses, but very few.

I think it's quite _rude_ for my neighbors to upload to Google Servers
multiple times a day my identification quad of SSID, BSSID, Signal
Strength, and Universal Coordinates (even as I have _nomap) appended to my
SSID which is set to broadcast, especially as you can't easily spoof that
BSSID that the neighbors constantly upload to Google servers by virtue of
my neighbors not checking the button to NOT send Google my location
information.

In a way, the iOS users are at least not sending Google my privacy quad.

I also think it's quite _rude_ for my friends and family to upload to
Google serves my personal contact information, whether they're on iOS or
Android.

Both those are trivial to prevent; if the mobile phone owner is
intelligent, IMHO.

Which is my main point that it's trivial to improve privacy for intelligent
people, but the problem is that there are 1000 times us, people who are
dumb who simply do what the big marketing organizations TELL them to do.

--
The dumber your neighbors on Android/iOS, the more YOUR privacy is leaked.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:03:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You took more than 50 words to explain it. That is *too complex*

Jesus Christ Carlos,
It takes you only seconds to return to posting like a child does.

I patiently explained something only one out of 10,000 people can do
o And you complain about the meaningless 'word count' for Christs' sake.

Only an utter idiot would say what you just said.
o The iOS crybabies like Jolly Roger do it all the time.

If I explain how to use an iPad as a usb stick, even though they can't even
do it themselves, they "count the words" of the description, and base how
"hard" or "easy" it is on a meaningless word count.

You just proved, yet again, you're the exact same type of idiot Carlos.
o Only a person with a child's comprehensive skills would say what you did.

Here's a short 2-word response to you that you _can_ understand, Carlos:
o Grow up.

--
People who count words equating them with complexity - prove to be morons.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 03:10:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> o Yet, with forethought and understanding, local backups are trivial.
>
> I very much doubt that. Not easy nor trivial. Trivial is seeking a
> button on a phone just purchased and push it.

Hi Carlos,

I actually think this type of privacy is trivial...
o ... but only for intelligent people.

What I mean by that is that the dumber someone is, in my humble opinion,
the more likely they are to simply "just do" what the advertisers tell them
to do.

As a simple example, how many people buy iOS devices and, just one month
later, their 5GB of "teaser storage" is filled, and then they complain?
(HINT: Almost every new iOS user does this, in my experience.)

Same with Android only in different ways, in that how many new Android
users simply _default_ to the Google Contacts being backed up to Google
Servers?

Personally, I consider it extremely _rude_ to my contacts to put my
contacts on the net; but the dumbest of people do that, don't they?

Another thing the dumbest of people do is upload constantly to Google
Servers their neighbors' quad persopnal information of SSID/BSSID/GPS/Db.

Yet, my point is that it's _trivial_ not to feed Google all this private
information about yourself and your neighbors; you just have to be
intelligent enough to press the button.

I realize I'm likely one out of 1,000 but I would hope most of you are also
1 out of 1,000 in terms of intelligence and basic understanding of privacy.

--
I'll respond to the rest separately as it seems posters were intermingled.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:27:55 +0000, Chronos wrote:

> Add _nomap to your SSID. Apparently, this is a global opt-out, although
> quite how rigid they are in following this is anyone's guess and the
> fact one has to ask that question is a case in point about how
> trustworthy they are.
>
> At least _nomap signals y

It's not that simple to prevent others from being rude with Android.

First off, you didn't note that I _do_ add "nomap" (and "optout"):
<https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3g3xyu/for_wifi_ms_optout_and_google_nomap_does_anyone/>
o nomap
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/Google-Maps-Wi-Fi-Location-SSID,14000.html>
o optout
<https://www.redmondpie.com/disable-wi-fi-sense-password-sharing-in-windows-10-heres-how/>

Secondly, the "nomap" suffix _still_ doesn't prevent Google from
_obtaining_ your private SSID quad from your rude neighbors; the nomap is
just is a signal for Google to strip out your private information from
their public database (which is available to everyone online to track
anyone).

Secondly, people have to _know_ what they're doing is very rude.
o It doesn't take intelligence; it's takes caring about people's privacy.

And they have to _not_ ever use Google Contacts or the GMail app.
o Both of those apps put _your_ contact information on the net!

The fact is that, because other people are rude, you lose your privacy:
o How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/D_S7hLbW4j0/Mg2gcqYrDwAJ>

> At least _nomap signals your intent and you have clearly told them to,
for want of a better phrase, sod off.

The problem is that rude uncaring people like Carlos exist everywhere:
o What else do we need to do in order to turn OFF reporting to Google my neighbor's wifi access points?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/GHyPnNU60gg/0RTA5x4rAgAJ>

There are very few intelligent people, and even less non-rude people.

[Carlos E.R.]

Plonk.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE: (uk.telecom.mobile removed from the cross post)

The Wall Street Journal today reported yet another reason one might want to
instantly eliminate the Advertiser ID from any Android phone in the USA.
o *More reason NOT to have an Advertising ID or Ads on your mobile device*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/vI0HNkLs0pc>
--
Usenet is a public place for purposefully helpful adults to share ideas.

[Arlen Holder]

Update as per this recent thread today:
o Note pad, by Dieter Britz
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/D4P9ZN83UGY>

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 20:36:33 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Oh, I can certainly setup my phone, no problem. All my phones I setup
> myself, and then those of my friends or family if they ask :-)
>
> Maybe my first phone I got some initial help from the clerk. Quite
> probably he inserted the SIM card, I don't remember. And a friend helped
> me with advice. Actually, it was him who told me to setup the google
> account. I remember because I used my private mail account, and later I
> thought I should have used a new one. Too late.

Hi Carlos,

I can't really imagine what "set up" is required on an Android phone
o It pretty much "sets itself up" the moment you boot it (IMHO)

Of course, there are a trillion settings you can _change_ if you like
o But for the average person, I doubt they change them like we do

There _must_ be advantages to the highly MARKETED method of setup
o Which we both agree is to let the OS have or create a Google Account

If we assume we both agree on the disadvantages of setting up the OS to a
Google Account, then the question becomes what's the advantage?

It has been years since I've set my Android to a Google Account
o But years prior to knowing that it works, I did as most do

Advantages: (I think)
1. Your contacts are automatically backed up
(whether you like it or not)
2. You are automatically logged into Google Maps
(otherwise you'll need Aurora Store for the same thing)
3. You are automatically logged into the GMail App
(if you manually log into the GMail App, it actually
_creates_ a Google Account on the OS!)
4. You automatically get an advertising ID (on older versions)
(On newer Android, they circumvented that, the bastards)
5. I guess you're automatically logged into the Google Map app
(but you can use it on later Android w/o logging in)
6. I guess you're automatically logged into the YouTube App
(but as with the GMail App, NewPipe is just better in every way)
7. I guess you automatically get a Google Backup facility
(although I'm not sure what that does or how it does it)
8. I guess you get your Google Account hooked to Google Calendar
(although you can easily load any calendar app you like)
9. I guess you get ancillary apps like Google Keep to sync
(which is a nice feature since it's already set up for you)
10. Anything else?

What else do you get that's useful by setting the OS to Google?

See also:
o Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/0O0GLU0bFmw>

o List of one-to-one replacement freeware for each of the current score of Android Google apps
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/IPorNMcyP3g>
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to learn more of Android.