Chimera advancement revision?

[esmale]

Hi all,

Just posted an optional mechanic for Chimera character advancement: http://www.welshpiper.com/chimera-advancement/

As the current commentors note, there are some loopholes to be closed. Suggestions and criticisms welcome - feel free to comment here or on the post!

Cheers,

-Erin

[October]

Hi, Erin,

I've been giving this a lot of thought.  There are things I like with both versions, and things I'm not crazy about with both versions.  For instance, the original version is more flexible because you can choose what you want to improve, whereas in the new version you don't get to pick from the lower levels if you'd rather do that when you get a crit success.  I'd like to see a happy medium between the two.  Here's what I came up with:

You do your roll for Advancement per the new version, adding your level to the TN (I like this better than subtracting and doing all that other math as in the original).  Then, based on your success or failure, you get to choose from one or more groups:

CF: 1 IP to spend on group 1 only.

NF: 2 IP to spend on group 1 or group 2.

NS: 2 IP to spend on group 1, 2, and/or 3, AND GAIN A LEVEL.

CS: 2 IP to spend on group 1, 2, 3, and/or 4, AND Gain a Level OR a New Class. (Increase AdCost accordingly).

Group 1 (all cost 1 IP): 1d6 mana, +1 to class ability, improve a Perk.

Group 2 (all cost 2 IP): gain +1 to a non-class ability (bringing your score up to -3 from the default for starters), remove a flaw

Group 3 (all cost 2 IP): +1 to any of the following: MR, WL, DF, IM

Group 4 (all cost 2 IP): acquire a new perk, sperk, or power.

I was never comfortable with going from -4 to +0 for non-class abilities with the expenditure of only 1 point.  Non-class abilities should be harder to improve by definition.  With this, you have to spend 2 IP to improve that original -4 by +1.  So, to reach +0, you'd spend 8 IPs (if you think this is too harsh, you could move it to Group 1 and it would then only cost 4 points).

Maybe this increases level too quickly for your liking.  In that case, you could remove the level gain from NS and only have it at CS, and then swap Group 3 and 4 around so the level-related stuff is with the level advancement.

What do you think?

~October

[October]

Actually, I like having Level up only with Crit Success better (and it fits more with your original vision), so assume I said that first and Group 3 and 4 are reversed. :) 

~October

[Erin Smale]

I should have been more explicit: you can spend your IP points however you like. So if you get 3 IP, that might mean one 3 IP option or one 2 IP option + one 1 IP option.

With that in mind, the idea was, the better the roll, the more class-oriented the improvement. This has the (possibly unintentional) effect of making low-level characters concentrate more on class (because they'll roll more successes), while high-level characters get more non-class improvements (because they'll roll more failures). 

Hence the progression from CF to CS. But your tweak provides a good way to throttle level advancement rate - simply adjust the IP required. 

Similarly, this is also a good way to introduce other mechanical rewards. Let's say you wanted "1d4 non-classed henchmen" - figure out how many IP it costs and pop it in. Or, let's say you wanted strongholds to be an improvement option - you could do something like: CF: manor house; NF: tower; NS: keep; CS: castle. 

Side note: Untrained Abilities are handled differently in the Chimerapedia Core. Instead of a -4 penalty, you make your Action Roll with 1d12. This makes it impossible to accomplish Hard (or harder) actions without the aid of modifiers. 

This is one of the reasons I'm now advocating non-class Abilities starting at +0, which reflects basic training. However, it's enough to let you graduate from 1d12 to 1d20. 

There are two other non-class Ability tweaks I'm considering: (1) capping them somewhere between +1 and +3; and (2) restricting non-class Ability improvement to +1 per level. Without the latter, you risk a character eventually acquiring every Ability because of repeated failures on the Advancement Roll.

Back to you...

Cheers,

-- Erin
The Chimera RPG
Simple Rules. Unlimited Options.
http://www.welshpiper.com/

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[Erin Smale]

Ah - I missed that you separated out " +1 to any of the following: MR, WL, DF, IM" from "Gain a level." That's a good suggestion, decoupling those two. Though I think I'd still put them both at the CS level...

Maybe not. Dunno. Lemme think.

-- Erin
The Chimera RPG
Simple Rules. Unlimited Options.
http://www.welshpiper.com/

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:08 PM, October <october...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, I like having Level up only with Crit Success better (and it fits more with your original vision), so assume I said that first and Group 3 and 4 are reversed. :) 

~October

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[October]

Might be it should've read "Gain a level OR a new class (with all the costs added) AND in additon get +2 IP to spend on any of the groups.  I hadn't separated them, but with a level you get access to the level-related improvements.

On Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:30:33 PM UTC-4, esmale wrote:

Ah - I missed that you separated out " +1 to any of the following: MR, WL, DF, IM" from "Gain a level." That's a good suggestion, decoupling those two. Though I think I'd still put them both at the CS level...

Maybe not. Dunno. Lemme think.

-- Erin
The Chimera RPG
Simple Rules. Unlimited Options.
http://www.welshpiper.com/

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:08 PM, October <october...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, I like having Level up only with Crit Success better (and it fits more with your original vision), so assume I said that first and Group 3 and 4 are reversed. :) 

~October

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[October]

Ah hah. Thanks for the clarification on the untrained Abilities.  I will revisit this with that in mind (and look in the Keep for that bit instead of my Basic printout - can't wait for those RTF files!)

Yeah, other rewards!  You could have whole IP shopping lists to buy from if the players save up their IPs.  Very, very interesting...

I'm in favor of capping Non-Class Abilities.  While I don't see a problem with players eventually acquiring all the abilities if they want to spend their points on that, if you're using a class-based system, there is the issue of being able to improve a non-class ability equal to and above a Class Ability.  And if you're going to be able to do that, why bother having classes at all?  For the classless system it's not that much of an issue, since you could've picked all those abilities to begin with.  For advancement then, you might want to change the reward from improving an untrained ability to making it a trained ability (with a bump up in IP cost).

Exciting things to think about!

~October

Cheers,

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[Erin Smale]

That was helpful - maybe the cap for non-class Abilities is your level?

Also, I was thinking of an option where you could convert your unspent IP to bonuses on your next Advancement Roll (e.g., I roll a CF, don't want to buy any of the crap 1 IP options, so I convert and get a +1 to my next attempt).

Personally, I don't like the idea of hoarding IP unless (1) there is a way to spend them during play (e.g., spend 1 IP to get a +1 bonus or roll an extra die or some-such), or (2) you can't save more than 4 (which is enough to gain a level). 

Cheers,

-- Erin
The Chimera RPG
Simple Rules. Unlimited Options.
http://www.welshpiper.com/

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[October]

"maybe the cap for non-class Abilities is your level? "

Yes, I like this.  It's simple and easy to keep track of.

I don't see a reason to hoard IP either, unless you keep rolling 1s and want that level, then you could save them to buy the level (so, yes, 4 is a good cap).  I think any rewards other than character improvement type stuff should be in-game treasure handled through roleplaying: lands, titles, followers, etc.  So, while the idea of IP shopping lists was an interesting one, it's probably the wrong way to go.

However... I'm thinking of a cyberpunk campaign where character improvement could not only be the natural advancement options, but cybernetic enhancements that give your character +athletics or +observation or speed of movement, etc..  Maybe a compromise to allow this kind of thing (and land, titles, followers, magic items, etc.) could be in-game money for IPs?  Convert one of your IPs for 100 gold or 10,000 credits or whatever exchange you think is appropriate for the setting.  Then by spending 3 IPs your players can buy that $30,000 cybernetic eye implant that grants them a +2 to Observation and also takes really great home movies.

~October