Fwd: Organisation of Public Forum in WSC "the story of our Sanskrit"

[Shrinivasa Varakhedi]

Dear colleagues, 

Greetings from Nagpur. 

The Indian scholars who attended WSC in Canada have a great quantity of wonderful and rich academic experiences to share with all of you. Thanks to organisers for creating this event. 

Despite that, a small but powerful public event of greater concern sought the attention of the world. It was a Public Forum on the Gender and Casteism in Sanskrit. The title of the Public Forum was अस्मत्संस्कृतम् Our Sanskrit (a sarcastic title). The panelists were : Prof. Mandakranta Bose, Dr. Koushal and Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi. The invitation describes the event as a sharing of personal experiences of three deprived ladies. It was nothing to do with the academic nature of WSC. My comments written to IASS authorities and organisers are publicly shared in BVP.  More light on the program can be shed by other participants of the program. 

We feel that it was an attempt to defame Bharat and Sanskrit community in international forum. We have right to react. 

It was neither an academic program or a public political debate. Sri Cha Mu Krishna Shastry, Prof. Kutumba Shatry ji, Prof. Aravind Sharma and many others expressed there concerns in the public forum itself. 

Please find my mails to the organisers 1. After the event and 2 Before the event. Please comment. No political debates taking ether sides of ideologies please. BVP should express its stand and commitment for academics in Sanskrit culture. 

Warm regards,

Shrinivasa varakhedi

Nagpur 

1. My response to organisers after ….

Begin forwarded message:

From: Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shri...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Organisation of Public Forum in WSC "the story of our Sanskrit"

Date: 18 July 2018 at 6:29:57 AM IST

To: 2018 Secretariat Wsc <wsc...@ubcsanskrit.ca>, ubcsa...@gmail.com

Cc: kutumba sastry vempaty <kutu...@gmail.com>, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.a...@gmail.com>, so...@staff.uni-marburg.de

Dear colleagues,

Good morning. Returned from Vancouver with a rich experience. Thanks to the organisers. 

However, I am sad that so far I did not get any official response from WSC organisers except the oral response from Prof. Adheesh with a few comments that we should be open for unheard and suppressed voices and thats why this forum is cerated as a space for them. I appreciate the intention of the organisers and for showing such generosity. This was expected for other side also with an open mind. 

No doubt Public forum evening was all set with an agenda of non-inlclusiveness of the other side of view while advocating for inclusivity. It was very clearly evident in the entire program. Program as it was described should have been a sharing of their own experiences of deprivation. But, the trio of ladies who come from different academic and social background spoke seldom about their personal experiences on the issue as it was promised and  badly projected the ancient Indian textual tradition records with lot interpretations with statements degrading women and shudras.. The same old stories were reproduced. No innovation, no new ideas or no research. 

The main moderator of the dialogue, though listed the questions well-articulated ones,  couldn’t handle the debate on the same lines. She herself was sharing her own concepts and ideas taking examples from Ramayana which itself is a vast subject debate. It was Prof. Mandakranta Bose who was one of the member of organising committee. 

The second lady who was invited for discourse was Dr. Kaushal from Delhi University, whose presentation was very poor in many aspects. She just read some passages from her PhD thesis with quotation from Purushasuktam (one could make out her understanding level of sanskrit) and nothing was from her original thinking. It was a waste of time and burden to listen to her.

The only nice experience of hearing Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi on these issues was the best part of the forum. She was sensible in argumentation and appealing to people. She was trying to build the theories on the basis of her own experiences and look out to Shahstras. She tried her best to secure the team from damage of whole program. 

But as a whole program was a mess up as it did not go in a proper line. There was a confusion among the panelists on amalgamation of Academic engagement and personal experiences. Niether was accomplished. 

The audience was very patient in listening to the speakers for more than one and half an hour. But, when time was up and there was no sign of creating opportunities for others from audience side, a few people got annoyed. Then with no other option the organisers had to  open the floor for comments and questions from the audience. The academic points raised by few scholars like Prof. Aravind Sharma, Dr. Madhu, Dr. Mishra, were eye-opening response to the panelists. At one point sharing of Dr. Shivani's (a lady from BC) personal experiences was felt as a game-changing point. Lastly the debate ended with a nice comment by Dr. Anuradha who advocated for a heathy debate by inclusion of scholars from both sides also in the panel. It was one sided glorification on part of the organisers. 

But, the attempt of the trio who wanted to depict a bad picture about Indian community on an international outside the Nation utterly failed. Yet, WSC organising team is responsible for being careless in inviting people in the panel. This is an international event…that too a public forum of a prestigious conference. The IASS authorities should be cognisant of this event and are requested to be very cautious about future programs. The ideas and ideologies are to be respected but not in an unfair manner. Only academic debates shall be allowed in the conference. This was echoed in the IASS general body meet. 

My take : This is neither a fully academic program nor a personal experience sharing program. We should be sympathetic if somebody personal experiences are bad. We would appreciate their boldness in facing them. And we should also be ready to correct our practices. But, Such type of political programs should be avoided in future.

With due respects to Dr. Adheesh for a genuine efforts in organising a wonderful academic even, I express my displeasure about this program. 

Warm regards,

Shrinivasa Varakhedi

Vicechancellor 

Kvikulaguru Kalidas Sanskrit University

Nagpur 

2. My mail to organisers before…

On 10-Jul-2018, at 7:00 PM, Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear WSC Organisers,

A big Sanskrit community from India and other parts has been pondering upon an issue that is going on here in WSC organisation. Due to uncertainty of Visa and other technical issues we could not pay any attention to the programs. After arriving here we all are surprised to read the description of the Public Forum on the theme “Gender and Castism” under the title of Asmat-samskritam ….this forum is setting an agenda for the entire conference by discussing subjective experiences of some sanskritists in public place. Is there any approval for this program ? We do not see any connection to the World Sanskrit Conference with this experience sharing program.

We as scholars do not have any problem with any sort of academic deliberation. We would be happy to discuss the issues such as gender and casteism if an academic paper is presented. But, this is a public forum. It would be good if the Platform is equally shared by two different groups who take divergent positions. In contrast, only one sided party is given an opportunity to share their views. We are afraid that a wrong message will be communicated to the world about Sanskrit. Is this the objective of the WSC ?

We do not have any problem with holding an academic debate. But, this seems to be an arrangement for one sided advocacy. Moreover sharing personal experiences is not an academic exercise.

The scholars are upset about this and we oppose this kind of non-academic engagement in the WSC. We express our serious  concerns about this program. The reiteration of old discarded stories are projected as the true face of Sanskrit. The ideological differences are respected, but the projection of one ideology as the fact is unreasonable and unjustifiable.

We seek a public explanation for this arrangement from the IASS and local organisers on this matter.

I am writing this mai on behalf of Sanskrit scholars community.

With warm regards,
Shrinivasa Varakhedi
Vice-chancellor
Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University
Nagpur

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Prof Varakhedi,

Thank you for sharing this note.  In the west, there are people who do political interpretation of Indian literature.    

While people are free to pursue such interpretation in their own campuses, to infect the international body

with a political agenda is a new phenomenon!

I am glad that you are speaking up!  I missed the meeting because of a family situation.  I expect to get 

a first hand report tomorrow.  WSC unfortunately does get political color possibly to support itself!

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

  

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[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

I concur with the views expressed in the paragraphs below by Shrinivasa Varkhedi, Vice Chancellore, KKSU , Nagpur.  It is time that a global stock of ‘Samskruth Studies’ be taken up for audit by the traditional schools who are the  most hurt ( by design, targeting and  organized efforts)  in these cases – especially by  ‘ international teams’ taking shelter under   the umbrella of ‘ academic freedom’.

 

Every nation, Religion, Community has its unique way of respecting the language of their scriptures, sacred texts, rituals and practices and culture. Samskrutham happens to be this language for ancient India, the pride of ‘ Bharateeyas’.  In this sense, ‘अस्मत्संस्कृतम् Our Sanskrit’  is an appropriate title for exploration, from the traditionalists and defend it !  If   ‘अस्मत्’ as a sarvanama is taken out, or interpreted badly, what would the samkalpa - vakya ‘ aham  karishye’ mean ? So, ‘asmat’  here is ‘asmaakam sarveshaam samskrutham’.  And this can not be anything deviating from the Panini- Patanjali- Yaska tradition ( = Vyakarana – Yoga- Nirukti) tradition.

 

Who then needs to be alert and active in this effort ?   It is the  traditional schools. And they should take it up ‘ proactive’ and  issue by horns’ on a ‘ global scale’.  As on date, it is already a three century old issue messy issue in the Herculean stables of academia !

 

Would this Battle: Sanskrit be motivated for ‘ gains of pecuniary nature, and profession’ ?   It is a Yes and No.  Those who have already benefitted by ‘ earlier training in tradition’ should do this as ‘ repayment of  Tradition debt( vidyaa rina) for Panini ( Universal) and  not for limitations of profession (    jeevikaa vrutti at select institutions) !  For the new stock, the path should be paved to make their studies worthy enough to deserve a decent livelihood.

 

The  way in which the deliberations of  ‘अस्मत्संस्कृतम्’ at WSC seems to have gone on, as described in the mail below  is  offensive of tradition. So, it needs express of strong displeasure  followed up with corrective actions. Poor interpretation of ‘ language’ spoils the philosophy and created ‘ linguistic politics’.  India has been a victim of the ‘Sanskrit Language politic’ for several decades now.

 

I hope this will trigger action for achieving the right goals of Samskruth studies, as it was intended to and designed for.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

--

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste

 

You have raised the right questions.

 

The crux of the issue is the emerging  new phenomenon in India / Languages / Sanskrit studies -   ‘ noted as ‘ infect the  political body with a political agenda ( for Languages) ’.

 

This  is a  result of multiple level failures:

          (i)  Institutional failures to stay by the dictum of tradition for Samskruth language studies

 And

           (ii) Scholars making conscious choice to use –substitute alternatives  in studies using the  umbrella term ‘academic freedom’ !  

 

          The traditional schools have a term for this outcome :  ‘    vaanee - dur-vyaakhyaa – visha - moorchanaa’ ( borrowing Mallinathas terms). Language studies in stupor by poisoning standards of Scholar ship which affects text-interpretation.

 

What could be the plausible diagnosis for this scenario ?

 

a) Traditional schools not addressing properly and taking action to set right  the  ‘ political  interpretation of Indian literature’

       -  The records of oriental conferences bear enough evidence for this ‘ ahimsaa -   tolerance’ of ‘ political interpretation of Samskruth based Literature at India’.

           The monumental example of such  tolerance  of  ‘political interpretation with an overcoat of Religion and Theology’ is seen in Ramayana and Mahabharata studies.

           This ‘ political interpretation of Indian Literature’ is at the root of Society divide in India, politically labelled as  ‘Dalit groups’ !

 

b) Why people feel free to pursue such interpretation in their own campus ?  

 

    -  Because the docile nature of the ‘ Traditional teams’  did not get in to from action in defending the ‘ sacredness and purity of languages of texts’ !  It is not ordinary people who do such ‘ free interpretation’ .

        It is the agenda driven, academic scholar  desiring a benefit who makes such ‘ interpretation sandwiches in the name of research’.  

 

        To address such social aberration,  the  traditional scholars went on ‘ Paanditya lane’  to  find a ‘ linguistic explanation to justify the same text interpretation by use of language modeling as   ‘polysemy  – multivalent meaning terms –Abudiga language’ et al, in linguistics parlor.  With the sole goal to defend , justify, consolidate a plurality of view   points  and hold together the ‘ Tradition’  ! Language ( Vak/ Bhashaa)  which was designed  to lead to ‘  (Shabda) Brahma –Darshana’ was used differently !  The oriental scholar using the western linguistic methods  found this difficult to justify intellectually , logically and with manuscript evidence !

 

        The question to contemplate here, would be :   Why  did traditional schools forget to defend  the Samskruth Language position using the anchor of six binging disciplines ( Saanga- Shadanga) and several application –usage disciplines ( Upa-Veda- Shaastra – Vdyaa)    and  clarity on ‘Shaastra – Kaavya- Vyavahara’ usage ; and arrest the Samskruth language decay to allow ‘ free interpretations’ ?  even on their own campuses ?  A-Shaastreeyataa became the foundation for ‘language corruption’ and consequent downfall of culture, Identity and inviting the suffering.

 

    The answer rests in the Socio-political dynamic  history and leadership transforming  Colonial Bharath  to Independent resurgent India  where   ‘Political interpretation of  Indian literature -Sanatana Dharma Documents in Samskrutham’, has been free to be interpreted by all and sundry  , especially Media for entertainment and social outreach/ TRP ratings/ Political aspirations at Nations level.

 

The million dollar question is : What would India studies be for beyond India in such a scenario, where ‘ political interpretation of Indian literature’ is the roadmap to explore India as land of emerging economy in this side of the continent?

 

What is traditional schools answer beyond the ‘ Sanskrit and Yoga at Mandir’  ?

 

Regards

BVK Sastry   

[Saroja Bhate]

Dr.BVK Shastri has voiced the view of many of us in appropriate words.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

 Respected Prof. Varakhedi,

Glad to see your post on BVP after a long gap. 

----------------------------

Let me just share the facts with regard to the issue of  "political" ; the difference between our perception and perception in the west with regard to the same. 

We in India here have this strong attitude of avoiding "political" in academic discussions. 

But is it not a fact that the books and articles of Prof. Sheldon Pollock such as his "Death of Sanskrit", his articles on Ramayana, all begin with the direct mention of the name of a political party called BJP? Is this looked at as a bad feature of his academic output in that country? No. Moreover, this is looked at as a very good feature of his academic output there. This is looked at as his ability to bring/prove contemporary use/relevance to Humanities in general and Indology/Sanskrit Studies/South Asian Studies in particular. 

There was a recent discussion on this forum about the lowest place to Humanities in the value/status hierarchy of contemporary social order. It is not India-specific. We have it world over. In US too funding for Humanities in general and Indology/Sanskrit Studies/South Asian Studies in particular is drastically decreasing. Every time  a new alarm is raised about the crisis of funding to Indology/Sanskrit Studies/South Asian Studies, academicians in the field advocate for not reducing funds on the basis of the argument that 1. India is politically important for US  2. understanding India's past can help understand contemporary Indian society and politics. This is the reason , they mention names of Indian political parties in their 'academic ' articles without any iota of hesitation. Moreover such a blatant discussion of politics is what is considered to be bringing great value and relevance to their academic writing. 

There is another use of the word "political" in the current academic particularly university academic discourse. It is the influence of post-modern studies, Cultural Studies etc. which are the 'latest' and fashionable in the university Social Sciences and Humanities academic circles. Here "political" is not limited to electoral party politics. It is the 'power' relationships at family level , say, for example, between husband and wife, or gender-based power relationships at various societal levels etc. Prof. Sheldon Pollock's literature borrows words and concepts profusely from this literature. 

As such discussing "politics" in academics is not as bad an idea for the western universities, Humanities departments of JNUs and HCUs as it is for Sanskrit scholars without such a background of the western academics or the background of the Humanities departments of JNUs and HCUs. 

This post by me probably helps many members of the forum get an answer to their frequent question " what is the benefit to the western academicians from doing "politics" about Sanskrit, India, Indian culture etc. 

As such our suggestion not to discuss "politics" in academic forums not only seems out of date but even laughable to them. 

Just wanted to explain the 'intriguing' 'obstinacy' on their part in not stopping to discuss "politics" in academic forums.      

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear friends,

I wanted to share this observation.

In the west Sanskrit is viewed as a dead language and as an archaeological tool

to calibrate the past..  There no understanding or respect to the Sanskrit sounds.  

Sanskrit is converted to another language for interpretation.  This translation is 

inherently flawed because of faulty mapping and the built-in cultural bias..

Back in India, Sanskrit is used as a tool for religious practice.  Because of the latter

there is verbatim adherence leading to dogmatic conservatism.  The complexity of

appreciating a world of sounds reduces to a world of mechanical words.  That Sanskrit

is the natural scientific expression of the human voice is lost in the slogans.  

To investigate and appreciate the construction of sound in human voice should be

the new goal in Sanskrit studies.  It is not the examination of the past, but it is the

investigation that human voice is a biological evolution and has the capacity to 

render information in translating thoughts. Though it is hard, it is as interesting as 

any field of advanced research.  Its beauty lies in its cosmology.    

I would invite new researchers to get into these areas of research.  Funding will

show up once we show promise of work.

Best regards,

BM

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ravi Kumar]

Hari Om

I just want to make a couple of points here that might seem somewhat removed from the main discussion but are actually not.

It seems to me that what the West is doing is amoral but right, if seen from a strategic perspective, a utilitarian perspective. That has been their entire pattern of action if we look at history - they organize, they take the initiative, they attack, they occupy, they take. If they lose, they have what they have always had; if they win, they get to gain what's someone else's. That is a sound utilitarian principle, an effective operating principle. 

They don't have too much reverence for the past, and they look at Nature as something to be milked, not something to be revered and kept unsullied. And who is to say their worldview is wrong? Their worldview is what has shaped this modern world, and is what is going to shape the future too. They dominate everywhere. They have the military strength, they have the mighty corporations, they have the scientific and business know-how. While we have what? Monuments and Temples? Palm-leaf manuscripts? 

(Of course this take-everything outlook leads to ruin in the long run, but that's a long way away; and we won't be around to witness that - the victorious outlast the defeated. And whats more, in the long run, everyone is dead, as a famous Westerner has said. Pertinent words.)

We just wring our hands and try to defend, and bemoan, and basically do nothing much of substance while we sit on our moral high horse and slap ourselves on our backs and tell ourselves what a fine culture we have, what an excellent history we have. We are sitting on a horse - in this jet age.

A paradigm shift is what is needed, a radical change in our operating principles and in our worldview is what is needed. We need hunger, we need ambition, we need desire, we need to set aside morality for a while and just organize ourselves on utilitarian lines, we need to out-organize everybody else in every department (including academics, yes) if we wish to be relevant. 

We maybe on the right path since Independence, but we are damn slow, that's for sure. We are on the highway to progress but with our snail-speed we are practically stationary when compared to the rest of the world, a world that is moving faster than us. Need proof? Forget US, forget EU. Just look at China and South Korea, in our own backyard, for starters.

We are in danger of becoming a footnote in history if we don't change our ways. Given out lethargy, it is a miracle we have survived so far.

regards

RK

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Ravi Kumar-ji,

While I admire your pro-Indic spirit in your post, may I suggest to you to update yourself with so much that is happening all around yourself which makes your 

" We just wring our hands and try to defend, and bemoan, and basically do nothing much of substance while we sit on our moral high horse and slap ourselves on our backs and tell ourselves what a fine culture we have, what an excellent history we have. We are sitting on a horse - in this jet age"

obsolete?

There is an enormous systematic rigorous countering of the anti-Indic by the anti-Indic section of the western scholarship and the anti-Indic Indian scholarship. 

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[Ganesh R]

Dear Prof. Varakhediji,

Thanks a lot for your update. I congratulate your sincere and serious effort here. I wish to express my solidarity with you in this regard. 

With utmost warm regards

Ganesh

[Ravi Kumar]

Yes sir, I agree. And I think you also understood that what I said in my post was in the nature of praudhivaada, a bold assertion.

While we are on the topic, could you guide us as to which scholars, works, etc one could update oneself on regarding the issue of countering anti-Indic bias in western and indian scholarship. I am aware of Swadeshi Indology, and not much more.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

>  could you guide us as to which scholars, works, etc one could update oneself on regarding the issue of countering anti-Indic bias in western and indian scholarship. I am aware of Swadeshi Indology, and not much more.

You already mentioned Swadeshi Indology conferences. That itself is a huge work.

That as you know has the background of Sri Rajiv Malhotra's works and his Infinity Foundation. You know how game-changing it has been. 

You have a huge network of  organisations under www.indicacademy.org. 

Dr Sunthar Visuvalingam runs several active lists including 

Abhinavagupta abhinavagupta@yahoogroups.com

He himself is contributing an inormous amount of countering while hosting and encouraging many others. 

Prof.s Viswa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee are doing powerful work in their chosen specific areas : https://hunter-cuny.academia.edu/VishwaAdluri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._N._Balagangadhara is working in his own way. 

Why? BVP itself is hosting a lot of countering work on its platform. 

There is a lot more happening on several different platforms in several different ways. 

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

There were many women and Sanskrit related threads on BVP:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/Q7s9nXm2Oc8/gbFIikCJ4voJ;context-place=msg/bvparishat/0n41vcuW9E0/uW-rT6saCgAJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p5QcHyGSrc&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/_p5QcHyGSrc

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/JwdFVBx7jKw/p1V4Vl8uBAAJ

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#search/women+veda/1604e84ed4db9a88

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/0n41vcuW9E0/uW-rT6saCgAJ;context-place=pendingmsg/bvparishat

Threads on Sanskrit being denied:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/ADPlxrvWyF8/ckHwED2VAwAJ;context-place=msg/bvparishat/0n41vcuW9E0/uW-rT6saCgAJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/oSQalXcvA7I/N7AurHi0NgAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/oSQalXcvA7I/Egv6gV2tNgAJ;context-place=msg/bvparishat/0n41vcuW9E0/uW-rT6saCgAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/JwdFVBx7jKw/fPC3qywtBAAJ;context-place=msg/bvparishat/0n41vcuW9E0/uW-rT6saCgAJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/JwdFVBx7jKw/Rdu3-B0PBAAJ

[Jayaraman]

Namaste

I was searching the web and looking for the video upload of the eventअस्मत्संस्कृतम्  at WSC so that the discussion that happened can be heard and directly critiqued upon.

But it was not found. But what I found was very interesting. Neither the title or the discourse is new. There is a 2014 Article by Ananya Vajpayee in the Same topic in the Hindu.

The Story of My Sanskrit - https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-story-of-my-sanskrit/article6321759.ece

Also I found a  recent youtube interview by one of theWSC  panelist Dr.Kaushal Panwar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO2lVLv5ong

As I was present in the WSC conference this time and listened to the अस्मत्संस्कृतम्  panel discussion in person, I can state that the script remains unchanged.

regards

Jayaraman

[Ravi Kumar]

Dear Sri Jayaraman,

Thank you for the post. I am just wondering if these people only talk about the perceived wrongs perpetrated upon them and the shortcomings they see in India, Indian religion and Indian society or if they also advance a solution, a balanced, equitable solution to the problems they seem to have identified.

Criticizing is easy, giving a proper solution is hard. if somebody is only criticizing and not solving, then their motives are suspect. 

So far, I have yet to see any proper solution coming from these types.

regarsd

RK

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Jayaraman-ji,

Script is the apt word. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

 > There is a 2014 Article by Ananya Vajpayee in the Same topic in the Hindu. The Story of My Sanskrit - https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-story-of-my-sanskrit/article6321759.ece

---- This article was discussed on BVP immediately after its publication during 2014 itself. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The title of the article, "The Story of My Sanskrit" is a copy of an older article which as an extract from the autobiography of Kumud Pawde called Antasphot. This article of Smt Kumud Pawde-ji has drawn significant attention in  " Dalit Feminist studies". 

Smt Kumud Pawde-ji's difficulties as mentioned by her are rooted in her social conditions of being born into a community that was treated as untouchable, associated poverty etc. 

For Ananya Vajpeyi , there are no such problems. 

"  Seeing the name of Prof. Kapil Kapoor took me back to my days as an M.A. student in English and Linguistics at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU). Prof. Kapoor first introduced me and my classmates to traditions of literature, language philosophy, literary analysis, poetics, semiotics, grammar and aesthetics in Sanskrit." 

" But encounters with other scholars like the philosopher Arindam Chakrabarti, the Panini expert George Cardona, and the Sanskritist, and eventually my doctoral supervisor, Sheldon Pollock made me decide to pursue more seriously the path that I had glimpsed in Prof. Kapoor’s classroom: I took up the study of Sanskrit for real. "

She had the opportunity to all these encounters. 

"  At Oxford, I wrote an M.Phil thesis about how the study of Sanskrit had shaped the ideas of Ferdinand de Saussure, the father of modern linguistics in Europe. "

(She had the opportunity to do MPhil at Oxford). This topic shows that she was during that stage still in the path inspired by Prof. Kapil Kapoor. )

She all of a sudden realises "  the sheer wall of prejudice that blocked the access of someone like me to the particular aspects of the history, ideology and politics of Sanskrit that I was interested in. " 

What is the wall of prejudice? 

"female, a north Indian in south India, a student enrolled at a foreign university, a Hindi-speaker, and only tenuously and dubiously of a caste that pandits considered acceptable."

a north Indian in south India ! Did anyone face any such north Indian -south Indian problem in Sanskrit studies? 

a student enrolled at a foreign university! I have seen how people offer red carpet to scholars for this reason.

 

a Hindi-speaker ! Did you ever notice any such prejudice? 

Caste, she mentions her being from Brahmin caste here and there is no scope for prejudice here as she herself admits. 

None of the reasons for the wall of prejudice except 'female' have any semblance of being true. 

Regarding 'female', she selectively mentions one scholar who said  "that only “perverted women” became scholars". This statement , if true, shows that the scholar himself was a big pervert. But interesting thing is that she had several months of readings with him. There is no wall of prejudice here too. If there was , several months of reading would not have happened.
This perverted comment is not a typical or representative behaviour of Sanskrit scholars towards their women students.

" They were bitter and resentful, and the occasional interloper like me — that too someone with an obviously critical agenda — had to face the brunt of their frustration. " She masks the negativity in her agenda with the word  " critical".  So, here lies the secret of what she wants to blame on a non-existing wall of prejudice. It is this negativity in her agenda, that probably created problems for her. No wall of prejudice, no discrimination on gender-basis. While identifying that traditional scholarship is facing problems during modern times, in stead of identifying the true causes of it sympathetically she deliberately misdiagnoses it and consciously misdirects her readers by tracing it to " demeaned by democratic politics and secular public life that stigmatised their orthodox beliefs, threatened by gender equality that resisted the patriarchy inherent in their practices". 

People are giving the name Paushpee Paddhati to a certain method of teaching Sanskrit/AshTaadhyaayee just after the name of a woman's scholar. 

There have been a considerably big number of women Sanskrit scholars at all levels and activities. 

OK. Where are the difficulties comparable to those described by Smt Kumud Pawde here? 

Then why that title?

Agenda! 

She already made it clear.

The agenda of maligning Sanskrit, traditional Sanskrit scholarship, her akshraabhyaasaka upanetaa and foundational guru Prof. Kapil Kapoor, S'aastras, India and Indian nationalist politics and of acquiring sympathy by imitating the title of a woman author  who could have faced real difficulties.  

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Error correction:

People are giving the name Paushpee Paddhati to a certain method of teaching Sanskrit/AshTaadhyaayee just after the name of a woman scholar. 

not

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste Bijoy Misra ji

 

   Can Paninian Sanskrit studies help to fix the 4.5 billion USD project – ‘ The Brain Initiative’ ? if yes, How?   

   This is  what I  would like to push further  on your analysis of ‘Story of  our Sanskrit’ !

   This ‘Utility –Application Building’ ( Viniyoga , as Dr. Yadu keeps repeating on this forum) for Samskruth studies needs to be answered now.  And of course that was ‘Prof. Minkowski’s question also !

 

1.        Thanks for making  three pointers   to    

 

 (a)   the ‘new goal in Sanskrit Studies’  : To investigate and appreciate the construction of sound in human voice should be the new goal in Sanskrit studies. 

 

(b)    recognizing the   challenges involved  as :   Though it is hard, it is as interesting as any field of advanced research.  Its beauty lies in its cosmology.

 

(c )  Funding issue as <  I would invite new researchers to get into these areas of research.  Funding will  show up once we show promise of work.> .  

 

2.    Certainly  this is needed  to overcome the deficiencies  in the current model of study – research –application and social outreach’  in Sanskrit studies, in the  time segment of post colonial studies  to < asmat Samskrutham>  .   You have also identified five specific deficiencies that need to be addressed in your proposed model of Sanskrit research studies.

 

 (1)  Sanskrit is viewed as a dead language and as an archaeological tool to calibrate the past.. 

 (2) There no understanding or respect to the Sanskrit sounds. Sanskrit is converted to another language for interpretation. 

 (3) This translation is  inherently flawed because of faulty mapping and the built-in cultural bias. 

 (4) Back in India, Sanskrit is used as a tool for religious practice.  Because of the latter  there is verbatim adherence leading to dogmatic conservatism.   

      The complexity of   appreciating a world of sounds reduces to a world of mechanical words. 

(5)  That Sanskrit is the natural scientific expression of the human voice is lost in the slogans.

       It is not the examination of the past, but it is the  investigation that human voice is a biological evolution and has the capacity to  render information in translating thoughts.    

 

3.   What you are asking is precisely the model of ‘Samskruth studies’ as ‘ Yoga’  in ‘ Panini Sampradaya’ demanding ‘ Samskruth Language studies, where ‘ Vyakarana ( = grammar)  is sandwiched  and built  between the disciplines   (i)   the foundation of  Shikshaa (= Human Voice Articulation ; and not script symbol of a specific historical period   OR  transliterated Romanized equivalent)  ( ii)  Connected to  Nirukta ( = to  render information in translating thoughts) (iii) Flowing Words with rhythm ( Chandas). 

 

     This  system –pedagogy is given a traditional name ‘ Vedanga Vyakarana Shikshana Sampradaya’. And this is historically pre-Paninian !   and continued till ‘Bhattoji Deekshita’ ! at India, and as a part of ‘ Vedic Gurukul learning system’. The ‘ Masters- Instructors’ of this system –pedagogy still live in India, albeit numerically on finger count and past half- life age mark ( of at least 60 years) .  They are neither interested in the < asmat Samskrutham> or the < university titles and  honors> !  They just prefer to use ‘ Vyakarana’ for ‘Shabda- Brahma – Darshana / Sarasvati upaasanaa’  as ‘ Vak-Yoga’ for self-benefit.

 

     If  modern researchers really think that ‘Sanskrit’ holds a real potential worth a ‘funding’ , they need to proactively seek the Masters and learn the tradition.  The ‘ invited lectures, semester long courses for scholarship’,  YouTube- social media viral videos just create noise. These fail push right buttons to start the required research.  The Battle: (Swadesi) Sanskrit would help to keep the subject in public awareness. But it can not give traction to research studies, which needs a different breed of scholars and investigators.  The greater challenge is to clean up the mess that is floating  globally around due to the five specific deficiencies  identified by you. 

 

   In view of this, the first key issue to be addressed here is to answer : Why  upgrade  ‘Sanskrit- Research ’  of  current period  to  ‘ Yoga-Samskrutham - Research’ of Paninian antiquity ?  

   How did Yoga-Samskrutham benefit the people of Bharath ; and how this pedagogic model  received a  set back  from the ‘Colonial period’ when ‘Vedas became the records of  Tribal Aryan History’  with a ‘ PIE model language called ‘Vedic Accented Sanskrit’ , about which ‘ even Panini was confused  due to his own distancing from the  historical users  and had to use ‘chandasi bahulam’  several times as an exception rule  to accommodate Vedic terms ! 

 

    Due to  nurturing this ‘ inappropriate model of Sanskrit studies’, / and tolerating the damage,  India that was Bharath has suffered for three centuries due to the five deficiencies listed above; and has spent millions of public tax amount and human years going the wrong way and blindly .  The outcome now is Battle: (Swadesi) Sanskrit ! on ‘ Sanskrit as a Foreign language model ‘.

 

  One may load motives  in  seeking  funding  investment for this  research analysis and engagement !  That is emotional, cultural identity –pride issue. 

  That would not invite ‘ Science funding’. 

  Probably scholars-scientists  like you should suggest whether this ‘Sanskrit studies’ would get funding under the  4.5 billion USD – DARPA -US program of ‘ Brain Initiative’ . Links to explore:

 

https://www.darpa.mil/program/our-research/darpa-and-the-brain-initiative

 

https://www.braininitiative.nih.gov/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/06/45-billion-price-tag-brain-initiative

            https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-the-human-brain-project-went-wrong-and-how-to-fix-it/

 

And also invite the danger of ‘Handing over on silver platter, the Language of Vedas  and Yoga to Corporate control and  interests outside of Bharath’.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra

Sent: Wednesday, 18 July, 2018 3:48 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Fwd: Organisation of Public Forum in WSC "the story of our Sanskrit"

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Dr BVK,

You spoke my mind.  I have to tell an anecdote.

In 1990 my daughter started her undergraduate studies at Harvard

and i imagined a graduation when Sanskrit would be recited.  Harvard

has a tradition of Greek and Latin oratory, so I thought I could engineer

the students to create a Sanskrit oratory.  This is the time I discovered

that the sounds were not taught and the job was in textual interpretation.

Disappointed I started the Harvard Sanskrit Conversation Table which

stayed popular.  Actually Krishna Shastri did visit me in 1994 when he 

was organizing Sanskrita Bharati.  The Conversation Table did not

produce oration and in had to experiment through the temples. The job

of Sanskrit oration at Harvard remained incomplete.  Prof Aklujkar revived

the interest during his visit in 2002 but things did not move and the Infinity

program collapsed.

Now, the Brain Initiative.  I was involved in the Human Brain project in

the '90s purely for anatomical mapping.  http://www.hms.harvard.edu/research/brain/

The new research would be to check how does speech carry and convey

neurological information.  it could be intuitive and speculative,

but we have to create the scientific basis.  We did some preliminary work

for the last WSC to show that the syllables are independent neurologically,

but then what gives them the quality of sound?  

When we go to shabda-brahma we go to a neuter description of perception. 

My thinking is the sound is alive and they are capable of recreating a scene.  

I am experimenting with Valmiki, but I don't have a model yet!

We need some text that might have analyzed the depth of the sky in terms

of speech sounds such that a blind can visualize the depth.  In principle, it

should be possible through our speech faculty, so is the thought.  I am a

novice on old Sanskrit texts, I fetch as I go.  We need more seasoned

people who have a better inventory of information to engage people in

research.  We should not pay much attention on the source of funding 

as long as we may be able to freely expand human knowledge. I have

not tried new funding yet.  We are toying the word "rasa".

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

[Dr.BVK Sastry(G-MAIL)]

Namaste Misra ji

1. Thanks for recognizing the common thought and focus in this thread.   The post is little long due to the quotes used to make specific pointers and error-roots.

      The end question  for contemplation would be  all W- and Wh questions  for Samskruth Researchers ; the questions being   : 

     (a) Who was at fault in derailing Language- pedagogy model of Samskruth studies   at India,  Beyond India   in the past  and  Current Post Independence India ?  - A Post mortem analysis of History and Tradition !

     (b) Why ?   - The Utility – Application benefit, Pride , Prejudice ? Current period jobs and livelihood, religion professions ? 

      (c ) How to set right this error ?  - Opportunity for Leader ship  and ‘ensure Safe –transmission of Safe-guarded recovered tradition ??!  For Next Generation benefit

     (d) Who should lead the effort through proactive investment funding ?  - The challenge of Return on investment, Social benefit, Truth seeking, and Heritage Preservation as  Community / Corporate / Scholars/ Social / National Responsibility.  

        In other words, who is the Guardian, Successor,  inheriting Beneficiary of Paninian Language/s ?  aka Samskrutham ?   Is it appropriate to treat  Sanskrit as a  ‘ classical language’ ?   Or is Samskruth  an Universal  Eternal Orphan,  floating out in Space as ‘Shabda-Brahma’ ?

      How may we all work to  address to complete  the incomplete work at Harvard, for Samskrutham ?  Can a life breath be made to the infinity program ?

2. It is nothing unusual to expect Harvard to promote and stand by ‘ Greek and Latin Oratory’  even though these LANGUAGES are ‘ technically  classified as ‘ CLASSICAL ’ , meaning ‘ they are out of touch with society, no more  in use as spoken language in current period.   ( Yet ,  academics  refrain  from using the expression ‘ Dead’  with ‘ Greek and Latin,  so freely used for ‘Sanskrit: the Classical Language  of Hinduism  and texts of Vedic tradition’ !    In fact, the entire Sanskrit community  should be ever grateful for their scholarly publications with meticulous proofing and sustained   interest in a land of different faith traditions and practices.

3. Coming to ‘ Sanskrit: language Oratory and reading tradition of Sanskrit at Harvard, I refrain from making any specific observation.  It is institutional prerogative and ‘ Professors Academic Freedom’ to frame the education program and instruction systems / standards; especially in Religion disciplines . 

 A look at the history of Sanskrit studies at Harvard  reads as below (  http://static.fas.harvard.edu/registrar/ugrad_handbook/current/chapter3/sanskrit.html ): 

Sanskrit has been taught regularly at Harvard College since 1872. In 1951, what had been known as the Department of Indic Philology was renamed the Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies in order to reflect more accurately the wider range of instruction that had developed over the years. Of the present courses offered by the department, those in Sanskrit and Vedic give students access to a language that for over three thousand years has served to record, transmit, and shape major movements of Indian thought. The courses in Pali make available the primary sources for the Theravada branch of the Buddhist tradition and those in Tibetan and in Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit do so for the Mahayana branch. The courses in Urdu-Hindi give instruction in the language of greatest political and practical importance in modern India and Pakistan. Further courses in Indian Studies teach aspects of Indian culture and thought without requiring the knowledge of an Indian language. With the establishment of a Chair for Tibetan and Himalayan Studies in 1995, a range of courses in Tibetan and Himalayan studies is now offered.

This wide range of interest is also reflected in the programs available to undergraduate concentrators in Sanskrit and Indian Studies. Three options for concentration are offered.

Option A, Sanskrit Language and Literature, is for those students who wish to focus intensively on the task of learning the Sanskrit language and developing the ability to read, in Sanskrit, such texts as the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Epics, and, at an advanced level, works of court poetry and philosophy, grammatical studies of the Panian system, and the various Vedic texts in archaic Sanskrit. This is a challenging but rewarding program of study. In order to undertake Option A, a student must take Sanskrit 101a and 101b no later than the sophomore year. In the second year of Sanskrit study he or she will take intermediate Sanskrit and in the third year advanced Sanskrit. Beyond study of the Sanskrit language, students will work out a program of study with the Director of Undergraduate Studies or a designated adviser, drawing upon Sanskrit and Indian Studies courses and those listed as related courses.

 Suffice it to say : Harvard model and ‘Gurukul training model of  scholarship in Sanskrit studies (  and allied disciplines of Vedas and Shaastra’s) is at total variance since 1872  till date,  for almost 146 years !  and this has gone either unnoticed  OR ( tolerated with closed eyes) globally.  This is a pretty long time , being an equivalent of at least seven or more generations ( taking 20 years approximate as active life of senior professors and researchers) to  damagingly override Paninian language training system which survived unmodified for over three millennia at the minimum !

  This is one of the reasons  why native scholars do not gel well with Harvard research output in Sanskrit related disciplines ! Harvard set an anchor and a different  trend for Sanskrit studies at rest of the universities and define – steer the course of  ‘ SANSKRIT RESEARCH ? WHAT FOR ? HOW ? WHOSE BENEFIT ?’. Harvard received this model from Oxford , UK (https://swarajyamag.com/culture/missionaries-sanskrit-and-oxford-university-a-history ). Historical investigation takes the issue for a post-mortem analysis mode.

        Gurukul based  ‘Sanskrit : Language Modeling and Pedagogy’,  is  anchored to Panini –Patanjali- Yaska and starts with  ‘ LISTEN – REPEAT – READING WRITING  – VOICED TEXT FIRST’.  This is called the  pedagogy of  human succession-transmission memory training   through ‘ uccharana –anooccharana krama’ ( listen-repeat- retention)  of learning, carrying the text in memory before getting to the analytics ( Dhaaranaa before vyaakhyaana)’.   This ‘ Voice-  Audition tradition  ( Shruti- paramparaa)  used in Gurukul  was systematically destroyed by paving way for  preferential adoption of  Biblical  ( Liturgical) Greek and    ( Koene) Latin pedagogy model of ‘Scripted Text Studies and Translations  as authority’  for Sanskrit studies.

       In short, SANSKRIT STUDIES HAVE GONE WRONG BY USE OF INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE MODELLING FOR OVER TWO CENTURIES ;  THIS HAS BEEN TOLERATED GLOBALLY AND ESPECIALLY IN INDIA. CONTRA, THE INAPPROPRIATE MODEL OF SANSKRIT STUDIES IS PROMOTED RIGHT FROM EARLY SCHOOL LEVEL THROUGHOUT  ALL LEVELS OF EDUCATION PROGRAMS ( INCLUDING UNIVERSITY RESEARCH) PROGRAMS.  WSC  ‘ASMAT SAMSKRUTHAM’ IS JUST ONE FRUIT OF TOLERATING DECAY IN SAMSKRUTH STUDY PEDAGOGY.

  What is proposed by you  to be the line of investigation for Sanskrit Research  as ‘construction of sound in human voice’   with a connection to < cosmology> was postulated long ago in the model of ‘ Vedangas’  by positioning   Shikshaa ( Human Voice construction)  and Jyotisha ( Cosmology – Astronomy- Astrology- Astro Sciences) as teamed disciplines with Vyakarana of Samskrutham.  By calling ‘ Samskrutham’ as ‘Classical Language, on par with Greek and Latin’, the complete derailing in Sanskrit language education and pedagogy took place !  And that struggle is still continuing in India,  to  seek  government benefits  to   ‘  Sanskrit  by tagging  classical language  status’ ! 

  4. What then is a ‘Classical Language’ ?  -( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_language )   with a question for contemplation : Would Paninian language satisfy the definition of a ‘ classical language’ ? How ? How appropriate is it to put Samskrutham ( Paninian Language) on the  same pedestal of Hebrew ? 

        QUOTE (Begin)  -   A classical language is a language with a literature that is classical. According to UC Berkeley linguist George L. Hart, "it should be ancient, it should be an independent tradition that arose mostly on its own, not as an offshoot of another tradition, and it must have a large and extremely rich body of ancient literature." Classical languages are typically dead languages, or show a high degree of diglossia, as the spoken varieties of the language diverge further away from the classical written language over time. 

    In the context of traditional European classical studies, the "classical languages" refer to Greek and Latin, which were the literary languages of the Mediterranean world in classical antiquity.

     In terms of worldwide cultural importance, Edward Sapir in his book Language, would extend the list to include Chinese, Arabic, and Sanskrit:

    When we realize that an educated Japanese can hardly frame a single literary sentence without the use of Chinese resources, that to this day Siamese and Burmese and Cambodgian bear the unmistakable imprint of the Sanskrit and Pali that came in with Hindu Buddhism centuries ago, or that whether we argue for or against the teaching of Latin and Greek [in schools,] our argument is sure to be studded with words that have come to us from Rome and Athens, we get some indication of what early Chinese culture and Buddhism, and classical Mediterranean civilization have meant in the world's history. There are just five languages that have had an overwhelming significance as carriers of culture. They are classical Chinese, Sanskrit, Arabic, Greek, and Latin. In comparison with these, even such culturally important languages as Hebrew and French sink into a secondary position.

    In this sense, a classical language is a language that has a broad influence over an extended period of time, even after it is no longer a colloquial mother tongue in its original form. If one language uses roots from another language to coin words (in the way that many European languages use Greek and Latin roots to devise new words such as "telephone", etc.), this is an indication that the second language is a classical language.   In comparison, living languages with a large sphere of influence are known as world languages.   -          QUOTE ( End).  

5. Cha. Mu. Krishna Sastry’s Spoken Sanskrit was a ‘ language awareness creation movement’ which was the need of the time. It has done wonderfully well and achieved its goal.  Now is the time to go to the next level.

6.  On < We need some text that might have analyzed the depth of the sky in terms of speech sounds such that a blind can visualize the depth.  In principle, it should be possible through our speech faculty, so is the thought.   >  we can deliberate on the specifics of this.  The key is recourse to the Paninian model of ‘ Positioning VOICE learning before the SCRIPT’ :: Shikhsaa as the foundation of VYAKARANA, as listed in the Vedanga disciplines.

     Freewheeling  in development of a teaching course here as a ‘quick fix’ solution by getting to one of the 72 shikshaa texts would not resolve the problem .  Neither a straight jump to Panini Shikshaa. 

    The course outline needs to integrate traditional listing of sounds, Indian system of teaching  akshara-maalaa, recitation of poetry,  and connect the entire program to ‘ Science basis  drawn from collaborating disciplines  like : Anatomy, Brain functioning, Biology, neuroscience and  cognitive processes involved in Speech and Hearing,  the human memory systems,  the language- learning and usage, Linguistic memory .  The science part has to come from West. The Language and philosophy part will come from east.  Then only  the exploration of ‘rasa’ would be meaningful. The key to explore is the statement : ‘ The essence of Being (Purusha) is ‘Rasa’ ; raso vai saH;  Purushasya Vak- rasah’. And all this to Vedic Chanting, Gita Reading, Ramayana Recitation, Mahabharata listening and Spoken Samskruth Conversation ending with ‘ Yoga-Samskrutham for Meditation’.

An interesting read at this point could be a  Forthcoming book in 2020: "Strong AI : Understanding the roots of consciousness".

Please do let me know how we may all work together.

[Bijoy Misra]

Dr. BVK,

You have analyzed the points very well.  I cannot comment on the gurukula style of training

since I didn't undergo one.  I think the appreciation of sounds are important and necessary.

The discovery or the education that the sounds are constituted of varṇa compounding is

another matter.  i do not know if this is done as discovery or as instruction.  In the original

model of gurukula it possibly did not matter since the varṇa dissection need not be a part

of the instruction.  The māheśvarasūtra could be used as a tool of pratyāhāra, as I see.

There are more learned people in this forum who might educate us in the subject.

My scientific proposition is to discover the origin of Paninian sounds.  As we wrote in

our recent paper they should be considered as  units of speech and are not as units of 

manifested sounds.  As units of speech they would be universal and biological.  But 

then how we quantify them in their individual signature?  How are the signatures different 

and what causes the difference?  What mechanism translates a thought to speech?    

Ours is a modest preliminary effort.  As you say, the problem has many aspects.

The fundamental proposition would be to inquire the origin of a thought and the

possible segmentation of thought in the brain for analysis and storage.  We have to

design new experiments to explore this.  There has been some lingering statement

through psychology that a thought is rooted in a word.  That the word is a construct

while a thought is analog has been missing in the psychologists' argument.  This is

where the analysis of yoga would come in.  I do not know if there is research on the

analysis of thought, not Freudian, but cittavṛtti.  

It is interesting, but can get immediately complex and people give up!.  Please keep

thinking and generate courses.  Decades of work by many schools might lead to 

some scientific conclusions. It would be science at its best, not outer space, but

the inner space!  it is not the realization of the Brahman but the analysis of śakti,

the potential

Best regards,

BM

[Ravi Kumar]

Harih Om

Dr Misra:

The fundamental proposition would be to inquire the origin of a thought and the possible segmentation of thought in the brain for analysis and storage.  We have to design new experiments to explore this.  There has been some lingering statement through psychology that a thought is rooted in a word. That the word is a construct while a thought is analog has been missing in the psychologists' argument.  This is where the analysis of yoga would come in.  I do not know if there is research on the analysis of thought, not Freudian, but cittavṛtti.  

This (underlined bold sentence) is an area of interest, for it goes into the fundamentals of the issue from a biological perspective. Could you indicate any books or papers on this matter?

regards

Ravi

[Bijoy Misra]

I can send you our paper.  You can take references from there.

What's your background? Physics, engineering, biology?

Research papers?

[Ravi Kumar]

BSc (Hons) Physics, MA, LLB, ACS

I am not an academician. Nor am I a researcher. I am a corporate legal consultant by profession.

I have a basic understanding of cognitive sciences, and strong understanding of yoga and sankhya. Very little understanding of vyakarana and linguistics.

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Sri Raviji,

I do communicate to many who have similar cursory interest.

My suggestion to all capable people would be to spend at least an hour

a day in analytic thinking and studying on a topic of interest. 

We should make a principle not to "assume" or take things on face value.

Massive questions should appear and one has to calmly handle them.

it is easy to go superficial on these subtle areas where we have been

flooded with gross theories of convenience and bias.

i will send you our paper privately.  I recommend not to skip but

understand the concept internally.  You can ask further questions

when ready to dedicate time.  Some analytic grammar training would be 

extremely useful in your legal work also.

Best wishes,.

BM     

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-history-of-hinduism-9780198767022?cc=in&lang=en&#

Table of Contents

Abbreviations
Notes on the Contributors
Series Introduction, Gavin Flood
1: Introduction, Mandakranta Bose
2: Cosmological, Devotional, and Social Perspectives on the Hindu Goddess, Tracy Pintchman
3: From Magic to Deity, Matter to Persona: The Exaltation of Māyā, Bihani Sarkar
4: Lalitā, the Graceful and Enchanting Goddess of Kāncipuram, Sanjukta Gupta
5: Sri/Laksmi: Goddess of Plenitude and Ideal of Womanhood, Mandakranta Bose
6: The Elusive Sarasvati: A Goddess, a River, and the Search for the Universal in the Particular, Elizabeth Rohlman
7: Radha: Lover and Beloved of Krsna, Tracy Coleman
8: Sītā: Enduring Example for Women, Heidi Pauwels
9: Here are the Daughters: Reclaiming the Girl Child 'Kanyā, Bālā, Kumārī' in the Empowered Tales and Rituals of Śākta Tantra, Madhu Khanna
10: Becoming a Living Goddess, Brenda Beck
11: Bathukamma: The Folk Song Tradition of the Flower Goddess of Telangana in South India, Prabhavati Reddy
12: A Goddess from Bengal: Devī Manasā, Goddess of Serpents, Krishna Datta
13: Domestication of the Disorderly Devī: the Caṇ ḍī Maṅgalakāvya of Bengal, Saswati Sengupta
14: A 'Muslim' Poet in the Lap of the 'Hindu' Mother: The Freedoms and Burdens of Kazi Nazrul Islam and the Hindu Goddess Kālī in Modern Bengal, Rachel Fell McDermott
15: The Divine Mother Comes to Michigan, Tracy Pintchman
Afterword, Mandakranta Bose

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

There seems to be no anti-Hindu tone except in the highlighted aspect.

The Oxford History of Hinduism

The Goddess

Edited by Mandakranta Bose

The Oxford History of Hinduism

Description

The Oxford History of Hinduism: The Goddess provides a critical exposition of the Hindu idea of the divine feminine, or Devī, conceived as a singularity expressed in many forms. With the theological principles examined in the opening chapters, the book proceeds to describe and expound historically how individual manifestations of Devī have been imagined in Hindu religious culture and their impact upon Hindu social life. In this quest the contributors draw upon the history and philosophy of major Hindu ideologies, such as the Purāṇic, Tāntric, and Vaiṣṇava belief systems. A particular distinction of the book is its attention not only to the major goddesses from the earliest period of Hindu religious history but also to goddesses of later origin, in many cases of regional provenance and influence. Viewed through the lens of worship practices, legend, and literature, belief in goddesses is discovered as the formative impulse of much of public and private life. The influence of the goddess culture is especially powerful on women's life, often paradoxically situating women between veneration and subjection. This apparent contradiction arises from the humanization of goddesses while acknowledging their divinity, which is central to Hindu beliefs. In addition to studying the social and theological aspect of the goddess ideology, the contributors take anthropological, sociological, and literary approaches to delineate the emotional force of the goddess figure that claims intense human attachments and shapes personal and communal lives.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

This polyglot Muslim woman now heads Sanskrit dept

4/9/2014 post on BVP

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bvparishat/LjQ2aeorSVw/2CcqZDlRYTUJ;context-place=forum/bvparishat

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The story of their (women's) Sanskrit:

http://gurukulchotipura.org/

http://gurukulchotipura.org/education/

Presently there are more than 700 students studying in the Gurukul who come from 12 different states of India. All of them stay in the Gurukul. We have a team of 30+ experienced and dedicated teachers to impart education and supervise the students at all times. They help them to realize their intellectual potentialities and make them cultured and disciplined as per the teachings of Vedas and Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati.

There is an imposing Yagyasala in the Gurukul Campus, which signifies the spirit of sacrifice and self-effacement. This edifice infinitely adds to the charm of the Gurukul. All the brahmacharinies assemble here along with the principal and the teaching-staff to perform Agnihotra. Amidst musical Vedic chants they perform Brahmayajña for self-purgation and Devayajña for environmental purification. This is done during early morning hours and at sunset regularly.

Students are trained in all the subjects till the 10^th standard such as English, Science, History, Geography, Mathematics, Computers, Home-Science, and Drawing etc. After 10^th standard, students mainly focus on Sanskrit-grammar, Philosophy, Upnishad, Literature, Moral-scriptures (Dharmasastra) etc.

• Education up to 8^th standard: This is affiliated to Uttar Pradesh Education Board and is similar to other schools in region.
• Education in 9^th and 10^th classes: This is affiliated to of Gurukul Kangri University, Haridwar. The course is called Vidyadhikari and is recognized by all state boards as 10^th class.
• Education from 11^th up-to Acharya (equivalent to MA) is affiliated to Maharishi Dayanand University, Rohtak Haryana.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The story of their (women's) Sanskrit:

http://kgmdoon.com/index.php

विद्याविनोद ( इण्टरमीडिएट ) में पाठ्य विषयों की स्वीकृत रूपरेखा

श्रेणी-11-12

अनिवार्य विषय

संस्कृत -वाडमय (वैदिक तथा लौकिक संस्कृत-साहित्य)

अंग्रेजी

वैकिल्पक विषयः-निम्नलिखित में से इच्छानुसार कोई तीन विषय लेने होंगेः-

विशेष संस्कृत वाडमय (वैदिक वैदिक तथा लौकिक संस्कृत-साहित्य)	विज्ञान	हिन्दी साहित्य	इतिहास
राजनीति शास्त्र	मनोविज्ञान	अर्थशास्त्र	समाजशास्त्र
गणित	ड्रांग और पेन्ंिटंग	गृह विज्ञान या संगीत (केवल कन्याओं के लिये)

विद्यालंकार (बी0ए0)

श्रेणी-13-14 तथा 15

अनिवार्य विषयः

संस्कृत -वाडमय (वैदिक तथा लौकिक संस्कृत-साहित्य)

अंग्रेजी

भारतीय संस्कृति केवल एक पत्र

वैकिल्पक विषयः-निम्नलिखित में से कोई दो विषय लेने होंगेः-

विशेष संस्कृत वाडमय (वैदिक वैदिक तथा लौकिक संस्कृत-साहित्य)	दर्शन	हिन्दी साहित्य	इतिहास
मनोविज्ञान	राजनीति शास्त्र	अर्थशास्त्र	समाजशास्त्र
गृहविज्ञान या संगीत	गणित	ड्राइंग पेन्टिंग

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.prokerala.com/education/andhra-womens-sanskrit-college-rajahmundry-45243.html

Andhra Women's Sanskrit College, Rajahmundry

Established	1931

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Paturiji,

I would not give much credence to derived literature.

These books are not written for people in India of Indian descent.  

People use them because of language.  New researchers should

look for books in local languages if the original source is

not accessible.  

This is my personal opinion.

Best regards,

BM

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Misra-ji,

This seems to be in reference to Mandakranta Bose-ji's book /article.

I did not recommend the book to the list. 

The thread is discussing the three women Sanskrit scholars who were on the WSC public forum on   अस्मत्संस्कृतम् Our Sanskrit (a sarcastic title).  The panelists were Prof. Mandakranta Bose, Dr. Koushal and Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi. 

The invitation describes the event as a sharing of personal experiences of three deprived ladies

After showing how Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi's self-projection as a woman who was deprived Sanskrit is fake, I was trying to see the background of Prof. Mandakranta Bose. Unable to trace her article similar to the one by Ananya-ji, I was citing the book's contents to show that she doesn't seem to be as Hinduphobic. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

By citing the web pages of Arya Samaji Gurukula Vidyalaya's I was showing how the allegation of women being deprived of opportunities to learn Sanskrit is fake news /false information. 

Here in Hyderabad itself there are around 50 fine women scholars of Sanskrit produced by  Gurukula Kangri Vishwavidyalaya.   Gurukula Kangri Vishwavidyalaya was founded on March 4, 1902 by Swami Shraddhanandaji

Arya Samaj has been advocating women’s education since the day it was founded. As part of its policies for the up-liftment of women in the country, Kanya Gurukula Campus, Dehradun was established in 1922 by Acharya Ramdevji as a second campus of women’s education. To give real shape to the dreams of Swami Shraddhanandaji, Kanya Gurukula Campus, Hardwar was established in 1993. 

 

http://www.gkv.ac.in/?page_id=75

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Senior women scholars of Sanskrit on the list may speak about their own observation about whether women being deprived of Sanskrit-learning opportunities is fake or true. 

Prof. Ujwala Jha

 http://www.unipune.ac.in/dept/fine_arts/centre_for_advanced_study_in_sanskrit/san_webfiles/pdf/Prof%20%20U%20Jha.pdf

specialises in Meemaamsaa which even men do not easily dare to specialise in. 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Gangadevi, also known as Gangambika, was a 14th century princess and Sanskrit-language poet of the Vijayanagara Empire of present-day India. She was wife of Kumara Kampana, the son of the Vijayanagara king Bukka Raya I (c. 1360s-1370s).^[1]

Gangadevi chronicled the story of the victory of her husband, over the Muslims in Madurai in the form of a poem. The title of the eight chapter poem was Madhura Vijayam, also known as Veerakamparaya Charitram.^[2][3]

At the beginning of Madhura Vijayam, Gangadevi eulogizes several Sanskrit poets of the Telugu-speaking region, and particularly admires Tikkaya (identified with Tikkana, the author of Andhra Mahabharatam). This suggests that she was from a Telugu-speaking region.^[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangadevi

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Why are women not allowed to chant or study the Vedas?

I am being taught to recite and chant by a pandit who is only interested in my commitment.

https://www.dailyo.in/lifestyle/hinduism-sanskrit-vedas-chanting-om-women-swami-vivekananda-dayanand-saraswati/story/1/14325.html

[Ravi Kumar]

Nagaraj garu, I am not finding any info on this Sandhaanam initiative on the internet (that the article speaks of).

Do you have any further information on it?

thanks

2. It is nothing unusual to expect Harvard to promote and stand by ‘ Greek and Latin Oratory’  even though these LANGUAGES are ‘ technically  classified as ‘ CLASSICAL ’ ,<span lang

[Nagaraj Paturi]

It seems to be a twitter handle created by her. Seems no longer active. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://twitter.com/sudarshanhs/status/753577102234951680

[Ravi Kumar]

I got that impression too, sir.  But the idea is rather impressive. 

Are there traditionally trained scholars who are available to teach over the internet?

Do members here at BVP know of any such teachers, including any scholars who teach face-to-face?

thanks

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Samskrita Bharati Bangalore numbers:

Ulsoor / Indira Nagar - 
Jyothi: 9341260903 -

Jeevan Bhima Nagar - 
Jyothi: 9341321308 - 

DRDO Phase II Sriram: 9449123417 

Kaggadaspura - 
Jyothi: 9341260903 - 

Sadanandnagar 
Harnath 9242789504 

L.B.Shastri Nagar 
Raman 9916989151 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes$20at$20home%7Csort:date/samskrita/v1cPLaLkPI8/JT_MscRuTaEJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ6CLekQJO0&list=PLWjpkY4mU2RD8URCGJFG5nZQcb_PKTW8-

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes$20at$20home%7Csort:date/samskrita/WZKr3_MaPYU/oaW0M_-hBwAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes%7Csort:date/samskrita/fcFtqD5uEi4/rDfYDUn3BgAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes%7Csort:date/samskrita/qTHI40GpZLM/8XwLkRygAAAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/y$20n$20rao%7Csort:date/samskrita/8WQqnprRL6I/Sqaoxd7wBAAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes$20at$20home%7Csort:date/samskrita/zs90WAnUYxM/ahGb5izFsZMJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/samskrita/sanskrit$20classes$20at$20home%7Csort:date/samskrita/Q67dksmrRmU/1Lav_PkDl7QJ

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/samskrita/cSmXgs2OMJ8/S4jom80nAwAJ

[Nagaraj Paturi]

I understand from one of your posts that you live in Bangalore. 

Members of the list based in Bangalore may be able to guide you to traditional scholars that may be approached by you. 

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Ravi Kumar <pranayam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir, thank you fro the contacts. Samskrita Bharati is doing a fine job of teaching conversational samskrita to all, I am aware of that. There is also the Sanskrit google group that is involved in teaching sanskrit.

I was referring to traditional teaching and traditional teachers in my query, the sort that the lady in the article was talking about.

thanks

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[Bijoy Misra]

From a video posted in this stream, I saw the political use of the word "Dalita"  (popularly written without the end vowel)

Can anyone write about the origin of this word and its use in social context?.

 

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 2:36 AM Ravi Kumar <pranayam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you sir. I actually live in Hyderabad. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

The word " Dalit"  comes from the Sanskrit root " Dal" meaning to split, to break. But the word has been being used in the sense of oppressed community or depressed classes in the Indian political discourse, in reference to the communities that are in terms of the Indian constitution are called Scheduled Castes and in Gandhian terms were/are called 'Harijan'. The first use is variously attributed to Mahatma Jyotirao Phule and Dr B R Ambedkar. Since both these were Marathi speakers, it is interesting to check if the semantic change from 'split'/'break' to 'deppressed/oppressed' is due to semantic change during borrowing from Sanskrit to Marathi. 

While SC (Scheduled Castes) is official /constitution-based term, the word 'Dalit' gained currency later to 1970 and by now it has become THE word for the context in general discourse. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2018/apr/05/dalit-harijan-not-to-be-used-in-official-papers-centre-1797184.html

'Dalit', 'Harijan’ not to be used in official papers: Centre

 The Centre has asked all ministries, departments and state governments to avoid using the words ‘Dalit’ and ‘Harijan’ when referring to people belonging to Scheduled Caste communities.

Published: 05th April 2018 04:32 AM  |   Last Updated: 05th April 2018 04:32 AM

NEW DELHI: The Centre has asked all ministries, departments and state governments to avoid using the words ‘Dalit’ and ‘Harijan’ when referring to people belonging to Scheduled Caste communities. The directive was issued by the Union ministry of social justice and empowerment on March 15, five days before the Supreme Court gave its verdict on the SC/ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act.

In a letter to the chief secretaries of state governments and Union Territories, the ministry stated that they should use ‘Scheduled Caste’ and its translation in other languages for official communication. The letter refers to a January 15 order of the Madhya Pradesh High court which had asked the Centre and states to refrain from using the word ‘Dalit’.

The letter also mentions that the home ministry, on February 10, 1982, had sent a missive to states asking them to instruct the authorities issuing Scheduled Castes certificates to not to use the word ‘Harijan’.

[K S Kannan]

Am extremely sorry for my very delayed response.

Certain preoccupations, and more particularly  a spasm that I suffered,

disabled my normal functioning for quite some time.

I fully endorse the views of Prof. Varakhedi, as I was fully present for the torturous and degrading session showcased at WSC.

The session seemed all belabouring to cry hoarse that ours ("asmat"-samskrtam) has always been a horrendous civilisation.

One rarely witnesses such taking pride in self-flagellation, in one's earnestness in washing one's dirty linen in public.

It is evidently a pastime with some to engage in mud-slinging about India,

and that academics, pathetically Indians themselves, too indulge in this does not bespeak highly of them.

While one need not turn a blind eye to the faultlines in one's own heritage,

to disparage the same with great gusto, coupled with ensuring that there will be absolutely no provision 

for presenting other sides of the issue thus espoused, is, to say the least, very cheap and demeaning.

It smacked, without doubt, of political overtones - inflicted via subterfuge rather than through plainspeaking.

Prof. Varakhedi's essential point should be, I feel, given serious consideration in the future conferences.

There is also the issue, to be noted alongside, of the utter unconcern of the organisers

in regard to helping scholars out with assistance/guidance in procuring the visa for attending the conference.

Yet another serious lapse on the part of the organisers was that 

pretty long before there were any tidings of the visa provided/denied,

the last date for the cancellation of the registration was announced loudly - and implemented ruthlessly.

Undoubtedly many have been inconvenienced and suffered a loss - for no fault of theirs whatsoever.

Some may have even resolved never to attend a conference abroad in future.

As if all this was not sufficient, the indifference and inaction of the Canadian Embassy was, to say the least, deplorable.

To suspect scholars - endeavouring to attend a conference - of seeking to overstay or never to return

is adding insult to injury. 

(And it attains ludicrous dimensions - to see a nation going all out to suspect and prevent Indian scholars 

seeking to present their papers in a Sanskrit conference, 

as against refugees from other countries, who have even established their nuisance value all over, time and again,

being welcomed with open arms.)

KSKannan

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 6:55 AM, Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues, 

Greetings from Nagpur. 

The Indian scholars who attended WSC in Canada have a great quantity of wonderful and rich academic experiences to share with all of you. Thanks to organisers for creating this event. 

Despite that, a small but powerful public event of greater concern sought the attention of the world. It was a Public Forum on the Gender and Casteism in Sanskrit. The title of the Public Forum was अस्मत्संस्कृतम् Our Sanskrit (a sarcastic title). The panelists were : Prof. Mandakranta Bose, Dr. Koushal and Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi. The invitation describes the event as a sharing of personal experiences of three deprived ladies. It was nothing to do with the academic nature of WSC. My comments written to IASS authorities and organisers are publicly shared in BVP.  More light on the program can be shed by other participants of the program. 

We feel that it was an attempt to defame Bharat and Sanskrit community in international forum. We have right to react. 

It was neither an academic program or a public political debate. Sri Cha Mu Krishna Shastry, Prof. Kutumba Shatry ji, Prof. Aravind Sharma and many others expressed there concerns in the public forum itself. 

Please find my mails to the organisers 1. After the event and 2 Before the event. Please comment. No political debates taking ether sides of ideologies please. BVP should express its stand and commitment for academics in Sanskrit culture. 

Warm regards,

Shrinivasa varakhedi

Nagpur 

1. My response to organisers after ….

Begin forwarded message:

From: Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shri...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Organisation of Public Forum in WSC "the story of our Sanskrit"

Date: 18 July 2018 at 6:29:57 AM IST

To: 2018 Secretariat Wsc <wsc...@ubcsanskrit.ca>, ubcsa...@gmail.com

Cc: kutumba sastry vempaty <kutu...@gmail.com>, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.a...@gmail.com>, so...@staff.uni-marburg.de

Dear colleagues,

Good morning. Returned from Vancouver with a rich experience. Thanks to the organisers. 

However, I am sad that so far I did not get any official response from WSC organisers except the oral response from Prof. Adheesh with a few comments that we should be open for unheard and suppressed voices and thats why this forum is cerated as a space for them. I appreciate the intention of the organisers and for showing such generosity. This was expected for other side also with an open mind. 

No doubt Public forum evening was all set with an agenda of non-inlclusiveness of the other side of view while advocating for inclusivity. It was very clearly evident in the entire program. Program as it was described should have been a sharing of their own experiences of deprivation. But, the trio of ladies who come from different academic and social background spoke seldom about their personal experiences on the issue as it was promised and  badly projected the ancient Indian textual tradition records with lot interpretations with statements degrading women and shudras.. The same old stories were reproduced. No innovation, no new ideas or no research. 

The main moderator of the dialogue, though listed the questions well-articulated ones,  couldn’t handle the debate on the same lines. She herself was sharing her own concepts and ideas taking examples from Ramayana which itself is a vast subject debate. It was Prof. Mandakranta Bose who was one of the member of organising committee. 

The second lady who was invited for discourse was Dr. Kaushal from Delhi University, whose presentation was very poor in many aspects. She just read some passages from her PhD thesis with quotation from Purushasuktam (one could make out her understanding level of sanskrit) and nothing was from her original thinking. It was a waste of time and burden to listen to her.

The only nice experience of hearing Dr. Ananya Vajpeyi on these issues was the best part of the forum. She was sensible in argumentation and appealing to people. She was trying to build the theories on the basis of her own experiences and look out to Shahstras. She tried her best to secure the team from damage of whole program. 

But as a whole program was a mess up as it did not go in a proper line. There was a confusion among the panelists on amalgamation of Academic engagement and personal experiences. Niether was accomplished. 

The audience was very patient in listening to the speakers for more than one and half an hour. But, when time was up and there was no sign of creating opportunities for others from audience side, a few people got annoyed. Then with no other option the organisers had to  open the floor for comments and questions from the audience. The academic points raised by few scholars like Prof. Aravind Sharma, Dr. Madhu, Dr. Mishra, were eye-opening response to the panelists. At one point sharing of Dr. Shivani's (a lady from BC) personal experiences was felt as a game-changing point. Lastly the debate ended with a nice comment by Dr. Anuradha who advocated for a heathy debate by inclusion of scholars from both sides also in the panel. It was one sided glorification on part of the organisers. 

But, the attempt of the trio who wanted to depict a bad picture about Indian community on an international outside the Nation utterly failed. Yet, WSC organising team is responsible for being careless in inviting people in the panel. This is an international event…that too a public forum of a prestigious conference. The IASS authorities should be cognisant of this event and are requested to be very cautious about future programs. The ideas and ideologies are to be respected but not in an unfair manner. Only academic debates shall be allowed in the conference. This was echoed in the IASS general body meet. 

My take : This is neither a fully academic program nor a personal experience sharing program. We should be sympathetic if somebody personal experiences are bad. We would appreciate their boldness in facing them. And we should also be ready to correct our practices. But, Such type of political programs should be avoided in future.

With due respects to Dr. Adheesh for a genuine efforts in organising a wonderful academic even, I express my displeasure about this program. 

Warm regards,

Shrinivasa Varakhedi

Vicechancellor 

Kvikulaguru Kalidas Sanskrit University

Nagpur 

2. My mail to organisers before…

On 10-Jul-2018, at 7:00 PM, Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear WSC Organisers,

A big Sanskrit community from India and other parts has been pondering upon an issue that is going on here in WSC organisation. Due to uncertainty of Visa and other technical issues we could not pay any attention to the programs. After arriving here we all are surprised to read the description of the Public Forum on the theme “Gender and Castism” under the title of Asmat-samskritam ….this forum is setting an agenda for the entire conference by discussing subjective experiences of some sanskritists in public place. Is there any approval for this program ? We do not see any connection to the World Sanskrit Conference with this experience sharing program.

We as scholars do not have any problem with any sort of academic deliberation. We would be happy to discuss the issues such as gender and casteism if an academic paper is presented. But, this is a public forum. It would be good if the Platform is equally shared by two different groups who take divergent positions. In contrast, only one sided party is given an opportunity to share their views. We are afraid that a wrong message will be communicated to the world about Sanskrit. Is this the objective of the WSC ?

We do not have any problem with holding an academic debate. But, this seems to be an arrangement for one sided advocacy. Moreover sharing personal experiences is not an academic exercise.

The scholars are upset about this and we oppose this kind of non-academic engagement in the WSC. We express our serious  concerns about this program. The reiteration of old discarded stories are projected as the true face of Sanskrit. The ideological differences are respected, but the projection of one ideology as the fact is unreasonable and unjustifiable.

We seek a public explanation for this arrangement from the IASS and local organisers on this matter.

I am writing this mai on behalf of Sanskrit scholars community.

With warm regards,
Shrinivasa Varakhedi
Vice-chancellor
Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University
Nagpur

[Ramaratnam S.]

I concur with Dr. Varakhedi and Dr. Kannan. There was no real good stuff in that meeting in WSC which I attended. Another point to be condemned is the use of the term Brahminical (texts). I raised my voice at least on three occasions in the deliberations. We have astika darsanas and nastika darsanas. We have vaidika darsanas as well as avaidika darsanas. We may refer to sesvara concept or nirisvara concept. Nowhere in our tradition is mentioned brahminical or otherwise. What is  its definition ? When I raised this point the western scholars kept quiet but an Indian scholar rose up and said that it is defined in some encyclopaedia compiled by some western scholar. Is he a rsi? Is his encyclopedia veda to merit authority? The term is deliberately coined to cause division and ill feelings among Hindus. All  Indian scholars should  join together to fight against such divisive forces. We must send memorandum to WSC to ban the term in its deliberations.

Dr.S.Ramaratnam

Vice Chancellor

Jagadguru Kripalu University

Odisha

[Nagaraj Paturi]

> Another point to be condemned is the use of the term Brahminical (texts)

---------------------------------------------------------------

> We must send memorandum to WSC to ban the term in its deliberations. 

---- Dr.S.Ramaratnam

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can not ask for the ban of the term. We can only ask for the ban of its use in the contemporary divisive political sense. 

----------------------

Because 

We had 

Brahmanism

ˈbrɑːməˌnɪz(ə)m/

noun

1. the complex sacrificial religion that emerged in post-Vedic India ( c. 900 BC) under the influence of the dominant priesthood (Brahmans), an early stage in the development of Hinduism.

---------------------------

We also have been having 

The historical Vedic religion (also known as Vedism, Brahmanism, Vedic Brahmanism, and ancient Hinduism^{[note 1]}) was the religion of the Indo-Aryans of northern India during the Vedic period.^[5] It is one of the historical elements from which modern Hinduism emerged, although significantly different from it.^{[note 2]}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Vedic_religion

------------------------------------

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Brahmanism

has

Brahmanism, ancient Indian religious tradition that emerged from the earlier Vedic religion. In the early 1st millennium BCE, Brahmanism emphasized the rites performed by, and the status of, the Brahman, or priestly, class as well as speculation about brahman (the Absolute reality) as theorized in the Upanishads (speculative philosophical texts that are considered to be part of the Vedas, or scriptures). In contrast, the form of Hinduism that emerged after the mid-1st millennium BCE stressed devotion (bhakti) to particular deities such as Shiva and Vishnu.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Brahmanical too we have been having its use

Brahmanical

(also Brahminical)

ADJECTIVE

• Of or belonging to the highest Hindu caste, originally that of the priesthood.

  ‘Buddhist stupas and Brahminical temples’

--------------------------------------------------

http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/globalreligion/n99.xml

Brahmanical Hinduism

David Fowler

Brahmanical Hinduism represents the elite, lettered, and Pan-Indian religious culture of the Sanskrit language that bases its religious authority on the Vedas (“knowledge”)—a body of revealed Sanskrit scripture—as well as the authority of those who preserve such scripture—the Brahman priesthood. Nevertheless, the term Brahmanical Hinduism is a scholarly construct and is/was not the label of a self-described group of religious practitioners either now or in India's ancient past. Rather, the term is a convenient scholarly label for a collection of religious ideas, extrapolated by scholars, from a body of Indian religious and socio-normative texts (Highlighting mine)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Indian scholars should have been protesting the terms right from the time of their coinage and use during the colonial, orientalist days. Now these absurd terms have come to stay through prolonged use. 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Brahmanism

During the 19th century, the first Western scholars of religion to study Brahmanism employed the term in reference to both the predominant position of the Brahmans and the importance given to brahman (the Sanskrit terms corresponding to Brahman and brahman are etymologically linked). Those and subsequent scholars depicted Brahmanism either as a historical stage in Hinduism’s evolution or as a distinct religious tradition. However, among practicing Hindus, especially within India, Brahmanism is generally viewed as a part of their tradition rather than as a separate religion.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEi1HUvKR4s

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=473568900329590&ref=watch_permalink

@~27:47-29:04 “…Hindu dynasties, you know, decimate Muslim ones and vice versa. And, one sort of thing I do throughout the book is I grapple with this, this violence, and the literary use of it. Because Ganga Devi, like any good Sanskrit poet, she celebrates and praises gore on the battlefield, right, and if you are not familiar with, with Sanskrit poetry concerning battles, right, you need a real strong stomach to read this stuff. There is, you know, there is corpses all over the place, there is rivers of blood, there, you know, headless corpses wandering around, sort of tripping over dead bodies, right, it is pretty intense stuff. And this was poetry {pause) seemingly for emphasis)}, in Sanskrit. So in other words, Ganga Devi, she treated the annihilation of a dynasty, and a mass amount of death, to be fodder for beautiful literature. I argue in the book that this praise of violence—both against Muslim-led dynasties and enacted by them—is actually a strategy of inclusion. And so it is not about making them out to be particularly violent, it is about including them, as, more or less like other Indian kings. And this is because in Sanskrit literature you praise a King, in part, by saying that he is quite violent, right, this was a praise, it was a good thing.” {Transcribed as heard; almost verbatim if not fully so; Emphasis added}

In a talk about a book concerned with texts (many Sanskrit ones) from the period c. 1190-1720, one also got to see a reference to 17th World Sanskrit Conference (image 1 below) and Twitter Jack's "Smash Brahminical Patriarchy" (image 2 below). 

Dr. Truschke can be heard saying: 

(@~17:15) : "The conference in July of 2018 featured sexist treatment of female speakers and straight-up heckling of a Dalit Sanskrit scholar by upper-caste scholars. The conference also hosted a BJP politician. This is indicative of the World Sanskrit Conference's intellectually compromising and totally inappropriate links with the Hindu right-wing." {Transcribed as heard; almost verbatim if not fully so; Emphasis added}

(@~42:36): "...Smash Brahminical Patriarchy is essentially a human-rights slogan..." {Transcribed as heard; almost verbatim if not fully so; Emphasis added}

Megh

PS: This post should be seen for what it is: it contains, as should be obvious, a link to a video and what I heard Dr. Truschke say in that video, with some emphasis (bold) added. The reason for posting it in this thread should be obvious to at least some. 

 

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

~9:50 “Now, I wrote this book with funding from the National Endowment for the Humanities, which, which is the US government organisation and I am always supposed to mention that, so I guess there is still something good coming out of the US government but let’s not dwell on that too much.” {Transcribed as heard; almost verbatim if not fully so; Emphasis added}

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Jan 29 2021: 'Audrey Truschke on the Language of History | The Hindu On Books Podcast'

https://www.thehindu.com/books/audrey-truschke-on-the-language-of-history-the-hindu-on-books-podcast/article33698411.ece

~11:08-31: “...yeah and so what I want to push back there is something: it started in the past and it persists in the present, which is the idea that we, that we, want to allow Brahmins to define Sanskrit intellectual discourse. Right there so, Brahmins tried to do that in the past and many modern day Sanskrit scholars, whether knowingly or not, continue to reflect a Brahmanical bias and I think that that is inappropriate.” (Almost verbatim, if not wholly so)

[Nagaraj Paturi]

She says in 

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/interview/scholar-audrey-truschke-aurangzeb-is-a-severely-misunderstood-figure/article7648723.ece

As a side note, let me clarify that while Akbar inaugurated Mughal engagements with Sanskrit, he did so for slightly different reasons than many people think. Akbar’s reputation is that he was open-minded and tolerant, almost a protosecular figure. This can be a misleading characterisation. Akbar was interested in Sanskrit for its political valence in his empire, not as some personal religious quest. Akbar also had no qualms about harshly judging perspectives that he viewed as beyond the pale. A good example is that he questioned Jain thinkers about whether they were monotheists because to be otherwise would mean being evicted from the Mughal court (Jains assured him that they believed in God).

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--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

So, it is she who should decide whether Akbar was good or bad. If others called as Akbar was not as good as he was thought to be, then that was communal, Hindutva, Islamophobic etc., on their part. But if she says the same now, she is not all those things. 

So, that is the point. 

Those of India who were mostly quoted for the understanding about the status of Sanskrit etc., should no longer be quoted. 

'I, I should be the authority on all such questions. Even if the same point is made about Akbar, it should be I, who makes it. I should be the new authority on all such matters.' 

That seems to be the point behind, 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://twitter.com/ImManishSoni/status/1355916472313409545

Indian express publishes a full page article on Audrey Trushke's new Hinduphobic book, but no such affection for Rajiv Sir! #Shame

https://twitter.com/ImManishSoni/status/1355916472313409545/photo/1

https://twitter.com/indikakumar4/status/1356092542631112705

Replying to

@ImManishSoni

and

@RajivMessage

Sir, please study the digital marketing scene now in India. It costs lot of money to publish/promote articles in mainstream media. For regional papers also, some articles cost 50,000 Rs. The article published is probably not due to love or preference. But with money.

[Shankar Rajaraman]

According to Truschke, the only way Gangadevi characterizes the Sultanate or the Muslim people as different is through their use of the Persian language. 

However, at least twice in the same canto, there is a description of the द्विजs being chained and imprisoned. (द्विजशृङ्खलिकाखलात्क्रियाभिः कुरुते राजपथः स्वकर्णशूलम्; द्विजबन्दीनयनाम्बुदूषितानि). I don't think such a description figures in the context of Hindu kings. Champaraja is not described as tormenting the द्विजs. 

Regards

Shankar Rajaraman

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks, Dr Shankar Rajaraman. 

If you can do a more detailed such review, let us publish it. Dr Ramesh Rao is ready to publish it on Indiafacts. 

Other members may contribute their observations too. 

My line of argument is :

 

just as the Sanskrit literature in praise of the British and Sanskrit scholars working in collaboration with Europeans does not disprove the wealth drain or many other harms that rule caused to India, its people and culture, the  Sanskrit literature in praise of the Mughal rulers and Sanskrit scholars working in collaboration with Mughal courts  can not disprove the theory of the harm caused by some or all of the Mughal rulers to  India, its people and culture. 

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

On the (limited) point about "harm caused" mentioned in one of the notes in the thread:

 

https://twitter.com/meghkalyan/status/1356497776977137665?s=20

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[Shankar Rajaraman]

Thanks Paturi Sir. Let me go through the talk more closely before getting back to you so I can be better prepared to write.

Regards

Shankar Rajaraman

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[K S Kannan]

The two quotes given by Megh are excellent.

The first of these figures in the article by Dr. Meera and myself

in Vol. 1 of Swadeshi Indology series.

In addition, it has also been discussed in this List earlier, I guess.

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--

Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.

Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.

Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.

Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://scroll.in/article/985867/in-her-new-book-audrey-truschke-examines-sanskrit-works-on-indias-muslim-history 

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 12:41 PM Shankar Rajaraman <trya...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Shankar Rajaraman]

Truschke in the Scroll article says people and communities were not often defined by the god(s) they worshipped. चन्द्रशेखर in his सुर्जनचरितमहाकाव्य (which is one of the works she consults) calls the यवनs सुरद्विषः क्रव्यभुजः (hating the devatas and eating raw flesh, 5.1). Isn't this identification as सुरद्विट् based on the gods they don't respect?

Regards

Shankar Rajaraman

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[Veeranarayanacharya Pandurangi]

My own family in the year 1590, led by Narasimhacharya fled from punatambe  on the banks of godavari in the present day Ahmed Nagar district to save itself from the Muslim invasion.

I quote my own work "history of Pandurangi family"

"There was a Muslim invasion of Punyastambhapura. This is recorded in Rashtraudhavamshamahakavya. Narasimhacharya (later became Vidyadheeshatirtha Svamiji of uttaradiMatha) (along with Anandabhattaraka?) had to flee that town with his family and disciples. He went to Nasika Tryambaka and lived there for two years. Later Dattapandita the son of Naganatha invited him to Sangamner and Paithan. This Naganatha Dattapandita was a subedar at Paithan under Shahaji the father of Shivaji. He later became the subedar of Bangalore."

This Muslim seems to be Shahzada Murad Mirza (8 June 1570 – 12 May 1599) son of Akbar. He seems to have attacked Punatambe around 1590 or 1595 when on the orders of Akbar he attacked Ahmednagar. He was the governor of Deccan for some time. प्रतापशाहक्षितिपेन सार्धं ततः परं शाहमुरादवीरः। खेटानि मार्गे परिलुण्ठ्य पुण्यस्तम्भाभिधानं नगरं समेतः।। प्रतापशाहक्षितिपालसिंहस्तत्रापि गोदासलिले निमज्य। भूदेवतेभ्यो बहुदत्तवित्तो विश्वेश्वरं प्रीणयति स्म भक्त्या।। अथ प्रवृत्तेषु पुरस्य पुण्यस्तम्भस्य दाहाय महारथेषु। प्रतापशाहः करुणार्द्रचित्तो न्यवारयत्तान् विविधैरुपायैः।। अनेकभूदेवनिकेतनानां संरक्षणं यत्कृतमादरेण। गङ्गावतीसूनुरगादुदारं तेन ध्रुवं मन्दिरदानधर्मम्।। पलायिताशेषजनं पुरं तद्भटास्तदा हन्त हठादलुण्ठन्। प्रतापशाहः प्रचुरप्रतापो न चाहरत्तैर्थिकमर्थलेशम्।। 20. 44-48. राष्ट्रौढवंशमहाकाव्यम्.

राष्ट्रौढवंशमहाकाव्यम् is published by baroda. 

“Rastraudha vamsa kavya” was published by Janardan Sakharam Kudalkar, M. A., LL. B., Curator of State Libraries, Baroda, for the Baroda Government, and Printed by Bamchandra Yeau Shedge, at the ‘Nirnaya-Sagara’ Press, 23, Kolbhat Lane, Bombay in 1917. It was English version of Original work in Sanskrit 1518 (1596 A. D. )"

Thus we are now in Karnataka. Who can deny the destruction of punatambe a city of learne? Even Bhattoji dikshita is said to belong to punatambe before migration to Varanasi.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Excellent, Prof. Pandurangi. 

irrefutable evidence for Sanskrit literature documenting the other side of the picture than the one Dr Truschke would manipulatively project through selective use of Sanskrit sources. 

I am confident that more such evidence will come out with more effort. 

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

“Scholarship is sometimes controversial, perhaps especially when it is at the interface of history and religion, but the freedom to pursue such scholarship, as Professor Truschke does rigorously, is at the heart of the academic enterprise,”

https://www.opindia.com/2021/03/hindu-genocide-denial-and-racist-rhetoric-against-hindus-is-academic-freedom-says-rutgers-university-backs-historian-audrey-truschke/

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 12:54 AM Shankar Rajaraman <trya...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

1. Image found in this tweet in Rutgers-Newark Twitter (verified handle): 

2. Thread put out by @hinduoncampus: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1370513358076706818.html. 

The document attached with this note was accessed from the link in the last tweet of the that thread. 

3. A couple of reactions: 

Sources: https://twitter.com/SuhagAShukla/status/1370528421734932482?s=20; https://twitter.com/indumathi37/status/1370517711508410368?s=20;

4. Vikram Zutshi, March 12 2021, The Hindu: The curious case of controversial historian Audrey Truschke. Some excerpts below:

"In one tweet, Truschke referred to Rama as a “misogynist” and used a slur after the word. When asked to justify this claim, she cited a translation of the Ramayana by Robert Goldman. When Prof. Goldman was contacted, he said: “I find it extremely disturbing but perhaps not unexpected to learn that AT (Audrey Trushcke) has used such inappropriate language and passed it off as coming from Valmiki. Neither the great poet nor we used such a vulgar diction and certainly Sita would never have used such language to her husband even in the midst of emotional distress. Nowhere in our translation of the passage do we use words you mention AT as using… she is in no way quoting our translation but giving her own reading of the passage in her own highly inappropriate language.”

"True to form, she targets the Kashmiri Pandit community, ..."

"Instead of responding with reasoned argument, Truschke trotted out a litany of the “mean tweets” and hate mail she has received. While these can be harsh, they are in no way a licence to tar all critics with the same brush."

5. One of Dr. Truschke's recent tweets: 

https://twitter.com/AudreyTruschke/status/1370512081758339075?s=20

Note the (imho, appropriation of the) word "Progressive". 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

There is a chastising article in the Hindu, surprisingly in The Hindu about her book :

https://www.thehindu.com/society/history-and-culture/the-curious-case-of-controversial-historian-audrey-truschke/article34050315.ece

This was shared by Prof. Ramesh Rao in another forum. 

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[Gauri Mahulikar]

Hari Om!

Good article.

"Little learning is a dangerous thing"- is very true. Self-proclaimed scholars like Audrey need to learn विद्या विनयेन शोभते

warm regards

Prof. Gauri Mahulikar

Dean of Faculty, Chinmaya University

Veliyanad, Ernakulam, 682313

Former Prof & Head, Sanskrit Dept

Mumbai University

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

In point 4 of the 08:47 hrs post (https://groups.google.com/g/bvparishat/c/cbthNAM0jNc/m/8ccRwynDAQAJ; also in trail below), I had included 3 excerpts from Vikram Zutshi's Mar 12 2021 article in the The Hindu titled The curious case of controversial historian Audrey Truschke and I am glad to see Dr. Mahulikar has chosen to express a view in response to that article. I thank Dr. Patruri for bringing singular attention to the above article. 

Smt. Neha Srivastava's (@neha_aks; https://shaktitva.org/) view on some of the "not-enough" commentary: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1370582698280947718.html

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/parantapah/status/1370590654011568130?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/SuhagAShukla/status/1371130549889331200?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/rajiv_pandit/status/1371171174386896897?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/indumathi37/status/1371491472244146178?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Mar 16 2021 | 'The Truschke Purana: A saga in Hinduphobia' 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/indic-positive/the-truschke-purana-a-saga-in-hinduphobia/

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1372027533286379522.html

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

The Audrey Truschke Affair: A conversation with Hindu students at Rutgers 

https://brownpundits.libsyn.com/the-audrey-truschke-affair-a-conversation-with-hindu-students-at-rutgers

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

The Rutgers Circus, The Truschke Crimes (Dr. Ramesh Rao, March 23, 2021)

https://www.indiafacts.org.in/commentary/the-rutgers-circus-the-truschke-crimes/ 

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://www.hinduamerican.org/press/haf-legal-action-libel-al-jazeera

https://twitter.com/rajiv_pandit/status/1384312608929456140?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://www.hinduamerican.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2021.04.19-RJS-to-Professor-Truschke-Demand-Letter-Re-Hindu-American-Foundation.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0AA1AelPffacQLV6a0V5DGvNElsEmXLmvtXl7KadSY-OaUbZxpMiCpn4A

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/rajiv_pandit/status/1385354961723092992?s=20

---

https://twitter.com/HinduStudentsC/status/1385288950265401348?s=20

Details and registration: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/understanding-hinduphobia-conference-rutgers-university-tickets-149644973143

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Details and registration: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/understanding-hinduphobia-conference-rutgers-university-tickets-149644973143

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/SnehaRao994/status/1385587156111052803?s=20

https://twitter.com/SnehaRao994/status/1385587296729194498?s=20

https://twitter.com/SnehaRao994/status/1385587464946036740?s=20

https://twitter.com/SnehaRao994/status/1385587676074676226?s=20

https://twitter.com/SnehaRao994/status/1385587829007429636?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Working Definition of Hinduphobia

https://understandinghinduphobia.org/working-definition/

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://twitter.com/rajiv_pandit/status/1385724553268056066?s=20

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Dr. Jeffery Long - Understanding Hinduphobia: A Primer - Understanding Hinduphobia Conference 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51HTJg8x2KY&list=PLBeANoI-yc25dtdF1G0h2Vt4IKrQt7VRZ&index=1

Conference playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBeANoI-yc25dtdF1G0h2Vt4IKrQt7VRZ

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Academic Bullies 

by Koenraad Elst

https://www.academia.edu/34223444/Academic_bullies

Conclusion

 

The bourgeoisie sets great store by status. Scholars go by a different criterion: knowledge. They know, through learning or personal experience, that for some of the great insights and discoveries we are indebted to outsiders and amateurs; and that quite a few of their colleagues have big titles and positions not corresponding to their actual knowledge. They also know that holding (or at least uttering) the required opinions can make or break an academic career: either formally, as when a non-Anglican could not get admission to Oxford University, or informally, as under the reign of progressivist conformism today.

 

To think highly of the academic world presupposes a link between scientific achievement and academic rank, and this largely makes sense in the exact sciences. In the humanities, especially in the social “science” and literature departments, this link is also deduced, but only as a parasitical extension of the conventions in the exact sciences. Much of what passes for scholarship these days is only ideology wrapped into jargon. Some sophomores take it seriously: having just gained entry into the academic world, they idealize it and are proud of their belonging to a higher world distinct from lay society. And most laymen believe it: over-awed by status, they assume that academic status presupposes both knowledge and objectivity, the basis of academic authority.

 

There exists a test for objective knowledge: a good theory predicts. Physicists who know the relevant parameters of an object in motion, can predict its location at future times. Well, how about the predictions by the academic India-watchers? In the mid-1990s, when the BJP’s imminent coming to power was a much-discussed probability, top academics predicted that a BJP government would turn India into a Vedic dictatorship, whatever that may be. They were put in the wrong even swifter than expected: in 1996, BJP leader AB Vajpayee was Prime Minister for 13 days, then lost the vote of confidence, and instead of seizing power for good, he meekly stepped down. Academics predicted the victimization of Dalits and women, gas chambers, “all the Indian Muslims thrown into the Indian Ocean”, and what not. Well, the BJP has been in power from 1998 till 2004, and since 2014: where are those gas chambers? 

 

Scholars of modern India, as well as historians of fields relevant for contemporary political debates, have a lot to be modest about. They may have academic positions, but their record is not such that they are in a position to talk down to outsiders, the way Audrey Truschke now does.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJypMHe8SiGHfeXFDX3_v7pcbzFdecH4wJxhPWg5Od4TC-MS5w%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

[K S Kannan]

I guess a new word needs to be coined for

hatred/contempt/dislike/distrust towards Hinduism and (by corollary) Hindus

- modelled after this perhaps:

"Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of

the human species, human behavior or human nature."

(A misanthrope or misanthropist is someone

who holds such views or feelings.)

The word's origin is from the Greek words :

μῖσος mīsos 'hatred' and 

ἄνθρωπος ānthropos 'man, human'.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJGj9eZ14MWsObUThQ5Uu8paAP8u4Xj1%3Dc-J9h7Bwj_5bTAYag%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Member, Jury for World Sanskrit Award, ICCR, New Delhi.
Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[Sivanar]

SAdara praNAm,

The very name Hindu is that which was thrust upon us by foreign invaders just to distinguish us from them.

It seems to be time we start using our own name SANATANI.This will be enough to create quite a misunderstanding among them and against what they are actually doing to us.

Knowledgeable Vidwaans may please think about.

Namaste.

Prof. Sivakumar 

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 10:13 PM Veeranarayanacharya Pandurangi <dharmayu...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAM%2BoyOdDtHo%3DzgBxwf7uW9%2BVL99xE22J%2Bh1v7P5qXF%2BJyAbzyQ%40mail.gmail.com.