How can I become a independent, functional adult?

2,251 views
Skip to first unread message

Heinstar

unread,
Mar 20, 2015, 10:25:47 PM3/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I never realised how stupid I was until my younger brother started accomplishing things that I wasn't able to at my age as he got older. I’m almost 25 and yet I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m mentally ready to start learning driving and I couldn’t handle community college or university because I lacked the motivation, persistence and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my younger brother is four years younger than me and his almost about to graduate from university and already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you would've guessed, I constantly get compared to my younger brother by my parents and my co-workers and I get weird looks and seen as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I'm aware that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference. And not only is there a huge difference, but I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum since I'm unable to take care of myself, thus I get treated like crap because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid and dependent I am myself. I still remember what my dad told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid with so many physical and mental health problems, it’s probably just a unlucky genetic make up but it could be...
  • toxic chemicals I was exposed to growing up or in the womb
  • being deficient in iodine and omega-3 while in the womb which is said to dramatically reduce IQ in children when they're born
  • my mom had told me that she stayed in Japan at her parents house surrounded by her friends and relatives and didn't have to work and ate lots of fish and vegetables cooked by her parents every day while she was pregnant with my younger brother. With me, she said she stayed in Sydney in a crappy small apartment away from social support in Japan and she said she was constantly stressed out due to being tight with money because of my dad's crappy job. So her main staple in her diet was meat and carbs and barely any seafoods or veggies. She was also apparantly smoking until she realised that she was pregnant with me. But she had already quit smoking for good by the time she was preggo with my younger brother
  • bunch of medications I was given when I was hospitalized twice for my asthma attack when I was 10 years old
  • hitting my head on the ground and fracturing my collarbone during soccer when I was 15 years old
  • being prescribed 200mg minocycline for 6 months for my acne when I was 19 (before I've developed gut issues)
  • abusing caffeine when it stopped working when I was starting falling behind in community college (caffeine is said to inhibit hippocampal dependent learning)
  • gut issues I've developed when I turned 21 (ironically 2 years after minocycline)
  • having been under general anaesthesia twice when I was 21 for rectal surgery and colonoscopy
  • severe side effects from five days on roaccutane and some mental side effects still persisting even after 6 months
  • possible hypothyroid
  • mitochondrial dysfunction
  • neurological problems(dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance or ADD) 
  • other reasons that I'm not aware of
 
Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I need to figure out how to get out of it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his single mom(my parents got divorced after my dad came out of the closet when I was 15). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and she constantly threatens to kick me out of her house because I'm not contributing to anything. 
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21 in 2012. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon and Acid reflux/GERD are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve started researching common diseases that affects people's cognition. These are the tests I've had done so far:
 
Alhoutgh my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range, I’ve heard that you can still have thyroid issues even if it’s in the 'range' because the 'range' is mostly used by people who are already hypo/hyperthyroid, so my thyroid levels may not be in the optimal range for my own body. But how am I supposed to prove to my doctor that I have thyroid issues if my thyroids are in range? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid issue was because my right hand has become chronically dry since my 20’s, but this could just be from eczema though. 
 
I've also developed Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and can't wake up naturally until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
I hate to say it but I'm heavily dependent on caffeine to function daily. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, depression and lack of mental energy. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 4 weeks of withdraw phase. So I eventually had to go back to drinking coffee daily to be able to function.
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating whole veggies and drinking juiced vegetables, taking fish oil, Vitamin D3 and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to start becoming an independent, functional adult. 
 
I've lost hope on getting help from the doctor since whenever I desperately go seek help for my mental issues, they always say there's nothing wrong with me and just sends me home. So I feel like my only other option is to keep taking bunch of nootropics/supplements until I find what works for me. Can anyone tell me which supplements/nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

whoisbambam

unread,
Mar 20, 2015, 11:33:56 PM3/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
you can learn here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/new/

u can ask stack advice here:


i choose the 'new' but u dont have to.......it isn't easy to follow the threads



On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 9:25:47 PM UTC-5, Heinstar wrote:
So I didn’t realise how stupid I was until my younger brother started doing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m ready to learn driving and I couldn’t handle community college/university because I lacked the motivation, drive and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you could guess, I constantly get compared to him by everyone and I’m looked as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I know that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like a dirt because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the environmental toxins that I was exposed to growing up or in the womb. Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here: http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/14164-which-health-problem-could-be-aggravating-my-acne/. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit and Acid reflux are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve looked in to common diseases that affects people's cognition. I went and got tested for thyroid disorder and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. I’ve heard that you can still have a thyroid disorder even if it’s in the range because your thyroid may not be in the optimal range for your own physiology, but how am I supposed to prove that to my doctor? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has been chronically dry since my 20’s, but this could just be due to eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my complete blood test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0
 
What I’m certain that I have is DSPS which I've developed in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, lack of energy and depression. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency/abnormality in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. This is also the reason why I avoid alcohol since alcohol makes me feel depressed the next day even if I drink in moderate amounts.
 
I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like depression, anxiety, lack of energy, lack of motivation/drive and DSPS. But I’m too scared to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 
 
To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive his own car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating healthy, juicing vegetables, taking Krill oil and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to become a independent, functional adult. 
 
So I’m considering trying the nootropics below to see if they can help me become a functional adult. Here’s the list of nootropics that I’m considering trying:
- L-theanine + Caffeine - ordered Smart Caffeine, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- MCT oil/Brain Octane - tried it and it only helped a tiny bit.
- tDCS
- Unfair Advantage
- CILTEP - ordered, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- Alpha Brain
- DMAE
- GABA
- Huperzine A
- Sulbutamine
- Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam/Noopept/Pramiracetam/Phenylpiracetam/Coluracetam/Nefiracetam/Fasoracetam/Sunifiram
- Modafinil
- Cigarettes - Too much risk with very little gain
- Adderall/Ritalin - Too much risk with very little gain
 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become a independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

Heinstar

unread,
Mar 21, 2015, 12:26:07 AM3/21/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
My IQ score (before going on roaccutane):

On IQtest.dk, I usually scored 108. The highest I've ever scored was 110. When my younger brother was 16, he scored 106 and after taking the test again, he scored 110. He didn't drink any coffee since he's not a coffee drinker. So although I don’t know his IQ score now, it’s suffice to say that it’s probably higher than mine. My mother scored 110 which is interesting because she’s Japanese that's the exact average IQ of east Asians. What baffles me is that my dad only scored 84, and yet he could drive a car, travel overseas, live independently overseas, learn a second language, get a job overseas and get married before the age of 25.  And yet here I am almost 25 with an IQ of 107 - 110, I can’t even drive a car, can’t live on my own and can’t even find a job on my own. This tells me that there’s more to intelligence than what the IQ test measures.

Side effects I've experienced from Accutane:
 
Prefix: I actually had my cystic acne under control in our old House. But after our landlord went bankrupt, the bank took over our house and we were suddenly forced to move out in 3 weeks on October 2014. In the process of moving out, my acne started to get out of control and it became so severe that I decided to see a dermatologist because I was fed up with getting bullied at work because of my severe acne. And I had to keep working no matter what because I was getting income support by Centrelink. When the dermatologist saw my face, he said "I'll fix you up" and immediately decided to put me on Accutane for 12 months. 
 
I blindly trusted my dermatologist and began my Accutane course on November 2014, I was only on 20mg for five days but unfortunately, it was enough to mess up my brain. These are the side effects I've experienced:

Day 1
  • Extreme irritability and uncontrollable anger. I snapped and yelled at my mom for no reason and I couldn’t control my anger.
  • Migraine and nausea after drinking coffee few hours after taking Accutane.
Day 2
  • Significantly worsened memory, I couldn’t even remember the 4 digit number that I always use at work.
  • Severe depression. I started crying in middle of the day for no reason.
  • Extreme fatigue all day.
  • Feeling of unwellness like I was going to die.
Day 3, 4 and 5
same as day 2

I eventually quit on Day 5 due to not been able to deal with the above side effects.

It's been over 5 months since I've stopped taking Accutane and I've noticed a several side effects still persisting:
  • I used to get endorphin highs from exercising but I don’t experience that anymore.
  • I used to go to the gym 3 - 4 times a week. But after going on roaccutane, I only feel like going to the gym once a week now. 
  • Coffee doesn’t stimulate me as well it used to. Coffee doesn’t provide same motivation, concentration and energy boost that it used to give me.
  • I’ve become a lot more impersonal, apathetic and prone to depression and anxiety.
  • Loss of enjoyment to music. Music doesn't sound as vibrant and it doesn't bring my out my emotion like it used to. 
  • Both my toenail has permanently stained in yellow
  • Accutane has become my gateway drug. I don’t view drugs the same way anymore and I've become a lot more self-destructive, experimental and impulsive. Before being on Accutane, I was a lot more health conscious and wary of taking any drugs but ever since I’ve been on Accutane, it seems like my health conscious mind has been switched off. 
  • After taking Accutane, I lost all motivation to study this year and dropped out of Uni that I was studying part-time. Even though the workload was the same as last year, after going on roaccutane, I just couldn't get myself to study or concentrate.
  • If you saw my older post, I used to post ideas about N-back a lot. And I  used to have enough motivation to do DNB several times a week. But ever since I've been on roaccutane, I've lost all motivation to do DNB now and I can't even come up with new N-back ideas anymore. I think this is mainly because caffeine stopped providing me with the stimulatory effects after going on roaccutane. And I am not joking, caffeine literally does NOT work as well as it used to after I've been on roaccutane..
 
After stopping Accutane, I eventually realised that I could put my severe acne in permanent remission by drinking juiced vegetables and taking zinc supplements. After juicing and taking zinc supplements, I now no longer get any breakouts and I don't even have to use benzoyl peroxide anymore. I can even touch my face with my dirty hands as much as I like and I still don't get breakouts! I wish my dermatologist had mentioned these alternative options to me before jumping to Accutane. But I understand that their priory is to push Antibiotics or Accutane into hopeless/unknowledgable acne sufferer's throats so that they can get money in their pockets. He said to me so confidently that nothing is going to cure my acne other than long-term antibiotics or Accutane but he couldn't be more wrong.
 
Root cause of my anxiety, unhealthy coping mechanism and self-destructive behavior:
 
I apologise if I come across as if I’m ignoring everyone’s advise. I am reading everyone’s advise, but I’m only applying the ones that I think is going to help me. The general advice here is that I need to change my mindset but it’s not that easy and it's easier said than done. Especially since I’m living in a toxic household which reinforces my negativity and low self-esteem. But I trust your guys advise and I’ve decided to get a psychotherapy/CBT to help change my mindset. 
 
Having said that though, I’m still planning on trying the basic nootropics like Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam and Noopept at least once to see how it affects me so that I can learn more about what’s causing my cognitive deficit. Another reason why I’m planning on using nootropics at least in the short term is because I need something to help organise my thoughts so that I can start getting help because right now, my thoughts are all over the place and I don’t know how to get help. I have no relatives, cousins or friends to turn to and my mom doesn’t know how to help me so only I can figure out how to get help. 
 
The second general advise here is that I need to fix my gut health. It's possible that my sub-optimal gut is affecting my overall health and cognition. But unfornutately, the damage has already been done. It's been well over 3 years since I've developed gut problems so I think my gut has already done all the healing it could by now and the rest is permanent damage. I could try taking L-glutamine, colostrum and bone broth to see if my gut lining, flora and permeability heals but I highly doubt it. I’ve read that 90% of the serotonin is produced from the gut so it’s possible that’s the reason why my anxiety and depression skyrocketed. But even if I’m suffering from a low-serotonin levels due to my damaged enteric nervous system, I’d need some kind of medical breakthrough drug to cure it. To optimise my gut health, I’m currently taking VSL#3 daily which is about all I can do.
 
Ideally, I wish I could take my time to find out what neurological problem is causing me to have a lack of motivation and anxiety about learning to drive and finding a job. But the reality is, I’m getting payments from Centrelink to get support for my low income. And last year, I was working casually and studying part-time at university which was enough to meet the minimum requirement by Centrelink. However, in the past month, I stopped getting any shifts from my casual job.
 
So even though I’m studying part-time at university, since I’m not working enough hours, I began getting pressured from Centrelink to find a second job asap and work a minimum of 50 hours a fortnight and if I don’t, my payments would get cancelled.  And my mom won’t allow me to stay at her house if I stop getting payments. But as I’ve mentioned earlier, I have an lack of motivation and anxiety about finding my own job. So the pressure I’m getting from Centrelink to find a job is what has triggered my self-destructive behaviour. Basically, my mental illness(low motivation, depression, anxiety) + pressure from home and Centrelink to find a second job = self-destructive behaviour i.e. substance use.
 
Ironically, I think this same pressure to find a job from Centrelink is also the reason why I’ve developed my gut problems 3 years ago. So I’m not going to let the stress and anxiety overwhelm me this time and I’m planning on getting a doctor’s certificate to prove to Centrelink that I’m actually suffering from a mental illness so that I won’t need to look for a full-time job until I fix my mental health with therapy.
 
Since I keep getting pressured into finding a second job asap by Centrelink, I’m in a hurry to try almost any drug to see if it helps me. Two days ago, my self-destructive behaviour got the best of me. I thought it was a good idea to take 4mg Nicotine gum because I’ve read on Examine.com’s Stack Guides that 2 - 4mg of nicotine is an 'proven' nootropic. But I didn’t do enough further research to find out that the lethal dose of nicotine is extremely low at 30mg. Within half an hour, I started feeling extremely sick and I became very close to dialling 000 because I seriously thought I was going to die from nicotine overdose. I guess my lethal dose/nicotine toxicity must have been lower for me since I’m a non-smoker and I’ve never had nicotine before.  
 
I knew that I was eventually bound to hurt myself from doing stupid things from my unhealthy coping mechanism to stress and anxiety triggered by Centrelink. I'm fully aware of my unhealthy coping mechanism, but since it's caused by my mental illness and cognitive deficit I cannot control them. This is why I wanted my nootropics that I ordered from America to arrive as quickly as possible. But unfortunately, due to the strict Australian customs slowing down my order, it was too late.

Jean Rintoul

unread,
Mar 21, 2015, 2:21:13 AM3/21/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hey there, 
I think you should try regular exercise and skip everything else. If you lack the internal motivation to pick up an exercise routine(improved vasculature from exercise has both cognitive and motivational benefits), you could join the army who will force you into shape. 

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
So I didn’t realise how stupid I was until my younger brother started doing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m ready to learn driving and I couldn’t handle community college/university because I lacked the motivation, drive and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you could guess, I constantly get compared to him by everyone and I’m looked as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I know that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like a dirt because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the environmental toxins that I was exposed to growing up or in the womb. Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here: http://forum.bulletp...ne/#entry111384. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit and Acid reflux are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve looked in to common diseases that affects people's cognition. I went and got tested for thyroid disorder and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. I’ve heard that you can still have a thyroid disorder even if it’s in the range because your thyroid may not be in the optimal range for your own physiology, but how am I supposed to prove that to my doctor? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has been dry since my 20’s, but this could just be due to eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my complete blood test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0
 
What I’m certain that I have is DSPS which I've developed in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, lack of energy and depression. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency/abnormality in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. This is also the reason why I avoid alcohol since alcohol makes me feel depressed the next day even if I drink in moderate amounts.
 
I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like depression, anxiety, lack of energy, lack of motivation/drive and DSPS. But I’m too scared to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 
 
To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive his own car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating healthy, juicing vegetables, taking Krill oil and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to become a independent, functional adult. 
 
So I’m considering trying the nootropics below to see if they can help me become a functional adult. Here’s the list of nootropics that I’m considering trying:
- L-theanine + Caffeine - ordered Smart Caffeine, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- MCT oil/Brain Octane - tried it and it only helped a tiny bit.
- tDCS
- Unfair Advantage
- CILTEP - ordered, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- Alpha Brain
- DMAE
- GABA
- Huperzine A
- Sulbutamine
- Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam/Noopept/Pramiracetam/Phenylpiracetam/Coluracetam/Nefiracetam/Fasoracetam/Sunifiram
- Modafinil
- Cigarettes - Too much risk with very little gain
- Adderall/Ritalin - Too much risk with very little gain
 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become a independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

diff...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 21, 2015, 6:11:55 PM3/21/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
To be frank sir, your writing ability is good, and you seem to grasp difficult concepts with ease.  I don't know what makes you feel you have cognitive deficits but I don't detect any.  My first impression is that this post is a spoof of some kind.  However if you really want some advice I'd say get a job, any job.  Learn as much as you can, then if you can't move up get another job, any hob, and do the same.  Look for who is making good money at any job you're working at, and try to learn what that person does.  Over a period of years, you will develop job skills, and an idea of how you can make enough money to become independent of your parents.  Good luck.

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 7:25:47 PM UTC-7, Heinstar wrote:
So I didn’t realise how stupid I was until my younger brother started doing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m ready to learn driving and I couldn’t handle community college/university because I lacked the motivation, drive and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you could guess, I constantly get compared to him by everyone and I’m looked as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I know that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like a dirt because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the environmental toxins that I was exposed to growing up or in the womb. Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here: http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/14164-which-health-problem-could-be-aggravating-my-acne/. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit and Acid reflux are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve looked in to common diseases that affects people's cognition. I went and got tested for thyroid disorder and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. I’ve heard that you can still have a thyroid disorder even if it’s in the range because your thyroid may not be in the optimal range for your own physiology, but how am I supposed to prove that to my doctor? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has been chronically dry since my 20’s, but this could just be due to eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my complete blood test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0
 
What I’m certain that I have is DSPS which I've developed in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, lack of energy and depression. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency/abnormality in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. This is also the reason why I avoid alcohol since alcohol makes me feel depressed the next day even if I drink in moderate amounts.
 
I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like depression, anxiety, lack of energy, lack of motivation/drive and DSPS. But I’m too scared to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 
 
To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive his own car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating healthy, juicing vegetables, taking Krill oil and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to become a independent, functional adult. 
 
So I’m considering trying the nootropics below to see if they can help me become a functional adult. Here’s the list of nootropics that I’m considering trying:
- L-theanine + Caffeine - ordered Smart Caffeine, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- MCT oil/Brain Octane - tried it and it only helped a tiny bit.
- tDCS
- Unfair Advantage
- CILTEP - ordered, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- Alpha Brain
- DMAE
- GABA
- Huperzine A
- Sulbutamine
- Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam/Noopept/Pramiracetam/Phenylpiracetam/Coluracetam/Nefiracetam/Fasoracetam/Sunifiram
- Modafinil
- Cigarettes - Too much risk with very little gain
- Adderall/Ritalin - Too much risk with very little gain
 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become a independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

jotaro

unread,
Mar 21, 2015, 6:55:15 PM3/21/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
good advice from the guy above, independence is 90 percent financially
in our modern west.

--

Psionic

unread,
Mar 23, 2015, 7:02:39 AM3/23/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Exactly, from the writing and understanding you are perfectly OK and its matter cause of mindset. I can pick a quote which described my pretty closely similar problems like yours and I also believed its my poor cognition causing this (but after this I slowly realized it is not because there are a lot of people with poorer mind capabilities making more money/more independent): 

"Always take the harder route, if there are two possibilities on your way, always take the harder one. The other is probably only created by your laziness. Whether it is the decision to go out for run or sit all evening in front of your TV, go out for run!" - from the book Hackers and painters by Paul Graham.
He also very precisely describes that it is the thing that keep you up from your competitors, because they are not willing to put so much of hard work and you feel somewhere inside that it is the good thing to challenge 'barriers'. That can be exact cause of your self doubts probably caused by emotional disappointment from your father note. It is a matter of viewpoint, because there your brother take a lead and took the opportunity to work harder over you and you wait with the challenge. Never give up, life is full of examinations in various suprising forms, one of the nice things is that life puts you always in the tests that you are ready to master.

Dne sobota 21. března 2015 23:55:15 UTC+1 JokyBoy napsal(a):

Justin

unread,
Mar 24, 2015, 3:05:24 PM3/24/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Heinstar,

You're not stupid.  Something other than stupidity seems to be holding you back though.

I'd recommend finding a therapist that does IFS, and doing some meditation.  Some links to help you out:


Cheers,
Justin


On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:25:47 PM UTC-4, Heinstar wrote:
So I didn’t realise how stupid I was until my younger brother started doing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m ready to learn driving and I couldn’t handle community college/university because I lacked the motivation, drive and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you could guess, I constantly get compared to him by everyone and I’m looked as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I know that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like a dirt because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the environmental toxins that I was exposed to growing up or in the womb. Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here: http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/14164-which-health-problem-could-be-aggravating-my-acne/. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit and Acid reflux are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve looked into common diseases that affects people's cognition. I went and got tested for thyroid disorder and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. I’ve heard that you can still have a thyroid disorder even if it’s in the range because your thyroid may not be in the optimal range for your own physiology, but how am I supposed to prove that to my doctor? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has been dry since my 20’s, but this could just be due to eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my complete blood test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0
 
What I’m certain that I have is DSPS which I've developed in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, lack of physical/mental energy and depression. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency/abnormality in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. This is also the reason why I avoid alcohol since alcohol makes me feel depressed the next day even if I drink in moderate amounts.
 
I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like depression, anxiety, lack of energy, lack of motivation/drive and DSPS. But I’m too scared to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 
 
To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive a car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating healthy, juicing vegetables, taking krill oil and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to become an independent, functional adult. 
 
So I’m considering trying the nootropics below to see if they can help me become a functional adult. Here’s the list of nootropics that I’m considering trying:
- L-theanine + Caffeine - ordered Smart Caffeine, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- MCT oil/Brain Octane - tried it and it only helped a tiny bit.
- tDCS/DNB/Neurofeedback
- Unfair Advantage
- CILTEP - ordered, waiting for the parcel to arrive.
- Alpha Brain
- ALCAR
- DMAE
- GABA
- Huperzine A
- Sulbutamine
- Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam/Noopept/Pramiracetam/Phenylpiracetam/Coluracetam/Nefiracetam/Fasoracetam/Sunifiram + Alpha GPC/CDP choline
- Modafinil
- E-Cigarettes/Nicotine - Too much risk with very little gain
- Adderall/Ritalin - Too much risk with very little gain
 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

Heinstar

unread,
Mar 26, 2015, 7:29:06 AM3/26/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
(Updated 4th May) I'm going to leave my Supplement/Nootropic experience here: 
UPDATE #2 - After trying Aniracetam, Piracetam and Sublingual Noopept, I've realised that they don't help much. So I've started focusing on pseudovitamin, vitamin & minerals and adaptogens/herbs instead to fix my brain and gut.
✔ Ticked ones are what I'm currently taking frequently 

Nootropics:

Piracetam
- took 800mg Piracetam from Nootropics Depot. And within half an hour, I started feeling a pleasant buzz in my forehead. I wasn't expecting much after my negative Aniracetam experience but I'm surprised I felt something from Piracetam.
- took 1600mg the second day and I didn't get as much buzz in my forehead this time. I can tell that it's affecting me but it's very subtle.
- Piracetam stopped working so I took 1600mg in the morning and 1600mg again in the afternoon. I became in a slightly depressed/zombie like state for half an hour probably from Piracetam using up my choline. After taking Alpha GPC, the zombie state was alleviated. I've learn to never do this.

Aniracetam
- took 800mg Aniracetam from Bulk Nutrients and barely felt anything from it. Few hours later, I started feeling a little spaced out (lost my attention every few seconds) which was a little scary but it went away within a few hours.
- took 750mg Aniracetam from Nootropics Depot on 9th April and I didn't feel spaced out and lost attention every few seconds like from Bulk Nutrients Aniracetam. But I also didn't feel anything.
- took 750mg from New Star Nootropics an hour after a cup of Bulletproof Coffee (fat source) and it had an anxiolytic effect and improved my mood and my overall cognition. 

Noopept 
- took 15 - 25mg Noopept from Liftmode measured using a AWS gemini-20. I felt a slight increase in attentiveness but it was quite subtle and I was expecting more out of it.
- took 1 tablet of Russian Noopept and although I didn't give me any stimulary effects, I felt more in control throughout the day and I had more mental energy. 

Nicotine gum
- I originally wasn't planning on trying nicotine, but after reading on Examine.com's Stack Guides about 2 - 4mg of nicotine being an 'proven' nootropic, I've decided to give it a go. But I didn’t do enough further research to find out that the lethal dose of nicotine is extremely low at 30mg. Upon chewing the 4mg nicotine gum, within half an hour, I started feeling extremely sick and I became very close to dialling 000 because I seriously thought I was going to die from nicotine overdose. I guess my lethal dose must have been lower for me since I’m a non-smoker and I’ve never had nicotine before. However, today I only took 1mg of nicotine gum and although it boosted my motivation, it only lasted a few minutes. And as soon as up the dose to 2mg, I started feeling slightly sick again. So I’ve learnt that nicotine isn’t worth it for me since it doesn’t last very long, it always causes crash and it can easily make me sick.

Adaptogens/Herbs: 

- It doesn't do much on its own but it magnifies the effects of caffeine. When taken with caffeine, I get excessive adrenaline rush and a heart palpitation which I don't really like the feeling of and it doesn't make me think better than when I'm just on caffeine. It also gave me a painful acid reflux due to the rise in stomach pH and I had to run to the fridge to drink milk and eat yogurt because it burned my esophogus. I won't be taking this anymore because it doesn't help with my cognition.

- If I take 2 pills of Swanson BaCognize at night, it disrupts my sleep. Bacopa is also said to make stimulants work less effecivetly which is a huge downside for me since I'm so dependent on caffeine. So although it's been shown to have benefits to attention and memory over a long-term, I don't have a good time to take it.
- after taking NutriGold Bacopa, although it made me slightly sedated, I've also felt more cognitive benefits from it than Swanson BaCognize e.g. improved mood, memory and anxiolytic. I liked the cognitive effects so much that I'm willing to pay for the slight sedation for the benefit to attention, memory and learning over long-term. And it didn't disrupt my sleep.

- gave me an increase in werid feeling of energy that I didn't like. I prefer the energy feeling I get from ALCAR.

Blackmores Brain Active (Longvida Curcumin) ✔
- I wasn't expecting much out of curcumin but to my surprise, it started helping my thought process. I'm going to continue taking it to see how I go.

- not much effect

PseudoVitamins/Amino Acids:

- I used to take 150mg in the late afternoon to help reduce the brain fog caused by drinking too much coffee during the day(I don't take it with coffee since it reduces the effects of caffeine). But now, I take Alpha GPC/CDP choline in the late afternoon which helps relieve the brain fog caused by choline depletion in the brain much more effectively than L-theanine.  

- took a teaspoon full and it gave me some noticeable energy for 1 - 2 hours and then it returned to normal. I felt like it caused me to crash a little afterwards. I probably took too much.
- took 750mg and it gave me a mental energy for few hours without a crash afterwards. The mental energy was very pleasant and smooth. I'm going to continue taking 750mg ALCAR every morning.

- I take it after my cup of coffee which seems to offset the brain fog caused by choline depletion in the brain from drinking coffee during the day. 

- when I first took it, I felt my thought process improve slightly shortly after taking it. It also helps offset the brain fog caused by choline depletion from drinking coffee during the day. I'm going to continue taking 5g a day. 

- helps my cognition for some reason. Probably because it contains Essential Amino Acids and BCAA.

- 100mg gives me slightly noticeable energy boost for half an hour. I'm going to continue taking 100mg daily.

- I feel slightly fatigued everytime I take between 50 - 100mg and the same complaint has been reported on Amazon and iHerb reviews.

Vitamins & Minerals:





- stopped taking Selenium after my bad experience on 200mcg.


- I still suffer from Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome and I can't fall asleep until 4:00 am but magnesium has helped me get to sleep 1 hour earlier than usual. So now I can usually go to bed by 3:00 am.

- can't tell if it's improving my cognitive function but I'll alternate it between magnesium glycinate and see how I go.

- provides energy boost upon ingestion and I can feel a sensation in my brain. I'm only going to take it occasionally since I don't know if it's good for me or not.

For my gut:

- 1g made me feel dizzy headed possibly from my body converting it to glutamate so it wasn't worth for me to continue taking it.

Supplements I'm planning on trying next:
Supplements I've noticed the most benefits from so far:
  • BulletProof Coffee(Black Coffee + XCT oil + Butter) - the caffeine works significantly better with this combo than just black coffee and it has been helping me a lot with my mental energy.
  • Aniracetam - improved my mood, greatly reduced my anxiety and improved my overall cognition. I'm only going to take it when I'm overwhemled with anxiety since I don't know the long-term effects.
  • Noopept - definitely works by improving my mood and giving me more self-control. But I'm only going to take it as needed since I don't know the long-term effects. 
  • Sencha Green Tea from o-cha.com - best green tea I've ever drank and it helps me become productive at night without affecting my sleep.
  • Fish oil - I can notice my brain not working as efficiently if I don't take it for days.
  • Magnesium Glycinate/L-Threonate - helps me go to sleep earlier.
  • Iodine - I only felt the pleasant effects from it during the first 2 days. But I know that I need to take it daily since I felt so much better when I first took it.
  • Alpha GPC/CDP choline - helps reduce brain fog in the late afternoon which I get after drinking coffee in the morning for some reason.


I've found this site which covers pretty much all of the nootropics in existence: http://examine.com/supplements/Nootropic/
https://examine.com/supplements lists almost all the supplements in existence for every conditions. It's missing few drugs like NSI-189 but it's not a big deal since they're experimental and unavailable anyway.

Heinstar

unread,
Mar 28, 2015, 3:09:36 AM3/28/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I'm going to continue updating my nootropic experience in my previous post and let you know how I go with my life.
 
If nootropics starts working, my short-term plan is to learn to drive a car so that I won't have to depend on my mom to take me everywhere, such as work. And after that, I'm going to try and get a low level job on my own because right now, I'm still working at a place that I got hired thanks been hooked up by my mom since I couldn't get hired on my own(not even at Subway). Since she works at the same place, she takes care of all my work stuff because I'm too stupid to do them on my own, which is why I need to get a job on my own. And then after that, I'm going to find a small apartment to live in so that I won't have to live with my mom which she clearly hates.  
 
I'm not going to bother going to the doctor again for my cognitive defict issues since they aren't helpful since they think there's nothing wrong with me and always just sends me home. And I doubt going to the therapist would help either becasue my issue isn't emotional, it's a cognitive deficit/impairment issue. My emotion is already under control because I regularly drink coffee. Which is why I've come to the conclusion that my only option is to self-medicate with nootropics and hope that I get enough cogntive function to the point that I can become an independent, functional adult.
 
It's possible that my health issues are affecting my cognition to some extent but I still believe that my main problem is my cognitive deficit since I was already struggling and stupid to begin with before I've developed health problems. So I'll get around to fixing my health issues later after nootropics helps me become an independent, funcitonal adult since it's too complicated to fix all of my health problems. 

Brain Train

unread,
Mar 28, 2015, 12:51:03 PM3/28/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Heinstar,
Your situation has touched me deeply. I also faced some difficulties during school days but had great support from my father. i guess, in the absence of his tremendous support, i too might have felt a bit like stupid.

Some people have different type of brain. their learning style is different, for example, they may learn more easily by practically handling the object, seeing it in 3 dimensions as against verbal instructions or description.
some have great visual memory, others have great memory for verbal content.

My point is that you may not be necessarily stupid even though you may be facing difficulties. At most, you may be having a deficit in certain area/compartment of your brain. 

If that is the case, addressing that very specific deficit will make tremendous difference.

Before i talk more, i want to understand few things:
1. why do you think that you are stupid?
2. what is your observation about yourself that made you think so?
3. have you been professionally assessed for intelligence or some similar assessment for estimating your mental capabilities?

4. what is holding you back from getting a driving licence?

5. what are the key challenges that your feel, in terms of mental capabilities:
listening problem
ability to pay sustained attention beyond few minutes
poor impulse control
slow processing speed (slow speaking, slow writing, slow reading.. slow eating.. etc)

From your writings, it appears you have good analytic power, your thoughts are pretty organised.
you appear to be very objective in handling your situation.
your level of awareness about your situation is so intense! 

AND most importantly, your willingness/enthusiasm to overcome the difficulties appears exceptional!
(you studied so many things, figured out what might be the possible reasons, what might be the possible cure)



On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm going to continue updating my nootropic experience in my previous post and let you know how I go with my life.
 
If nootropics starts helping me, my short-term plan is to learn to drive a car so that I won't have to depend on my mom to take me everywhere, such as work. And after that, I'm going to try and get a low level job on my own because right now, I'm still working at a place that I got hired thanks been hooked up by my mom since I could find a job on my own. And then after that, I'm going to find a small apartment to live in so that I won't have to live with my mom which she clearly hates.  
 
As for relationships, forget them. I'm not interested in relationships right now mainly because I'm not comfortable with my own skin, I don't enjoy socialising and I don't think my DNA is worthy of been replicated since I have so much mental and physical health problems. Also, I have my younger brother who will reproduce for me anyway. I'm still trying to get rid of my sexual urge without having to masturbate but I haven't figured out how yet. But having said all of this, in reality, I'm pretty sure that I'm still going to end up making a family one day due to been human.
 
I'm not going to bother going to the doctor for my cognitive defict issues since they aren't helpful since they think there's nothing wrong with me and always just sends me home. And I doubt going to the therapist would help either becasue my issue isn't emotional, it's a cognitive deficit issue. My emotion is already under control because I regularly drink coffee. Which is why I've come to the conclusion that my only option is to self-medicate with nootropics and hope that I get enough cogntive function to the point that I can become an independent, functional adult.
 
It's possible that my health issues are affecting my cognition to some extent but I still believe that my main problem is my cognitive deficit since I was already struggling and stupid to begin with before I've developed health problems. So I'll get around to fixing my health issues later after nootropics helps be become an independent, funcitonal adult since it's too complicated to fix all of my health problems. 

Heinstar

unread,
Mar 28, 2015, 1:42:52 PM3/28/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
1. Why do you think that you are stupid?
2. What is your observation about yourself that made you think so?

When I was 20, I dropped out of community college because it became too difficult for me after moving up from Certificate III to IV. After dropping out, I was immediately required to look for a full-time job and work a minimum of 55 hours a fortnight by Centrelink because I'm getting support for my low income. However, no matter how many jobs I've applied, I couldn't get hired anywhere. After 6 months of been unemployed, I eventually had to get hooked up with a casual job as a waiter in a restaurant at where my mom was working. Because I'm not very good at doing the business side of things, I just do the job that's required by me as a waiter and my mom takes care of all my business stuff like getting paychecks, asking for more/less shifts and declining/accepting shifts to the manager since I'm terrible at communicating with other people and I'm afraid that I can't do them on my own. If I was to get a job right now, I probably still wouldn't be able to get hired due to being overwhelmed with stress and anxiety because of all the business side of things that I have to do on my own, such as asking for paychecks, asking for more/less shifts, accepting/declining shifts etc.

3. Have you been professionally assessed for intelligence or some similar assessment for estimating your mental capabilities?

The only test I've taken is IQtest.dk. The worst I've scored was 107, I usually get 108 most of the time and the best I've scored was 110. 

4. What is holding you back from getting a driving licence?

Anxiety about learning to drive on the real road and a self-doubt with my ability to learn to drive. I'm also working casually so I don't have enough mental energy left to learn driving in my spare time because I naturally have low mental energy. I've already tried learning to drive 4 years ago when I didn't even have a job but I didn't get very far because I was a very slow learner. Now, I have even less time so if I was to learn to drive now while working casually, it's going to take a very very long time.

5. What are the key challenges that your feel, in terms of mental capabilities:

  • Impaired Problem solving. I can tell that I'm terrible at problems solving every day things. 
  • Impaired Executive functions/Decision making because I'm very slow at responding to others and the environment, analyzing and making decisions on the spot, and arriving to conclusions. 
  • Low Motivation and persistence, I used to be more motivated when I was a teenager (I used to teach myself how to code; play guitar etc.) but now I barely have a passion to do anything. 
  • Terrible at learning new things. I'm very slow at adapting to new situations and picking things up and a lot of stuff I learn don't stick to my brain and I just forget them.
  • Terrible short/working and long-term memory. I often can't remember if I washed my body with soap few seconds ago while having a shower. And I tend to forget if I turned off the stove and I have to re-check the switch again.
  • Low mental energy and running out of mental energy very quickly. The only time I have enough mental energy to study or work is when the caffeine kicks in. But even caffeine can't save me anymore since it stopped working as effectively after going on roaccutane.
  • Not getting any enjoyment out of socializing. I have zero friends I have no desire to make any or socialize with others. I have a bit of social anxiety because I hate being around other people and I prefer to be alone. Trying to be social tires my brain out.
  • Not having priorities in order. Due to my anxiety and lack of motivation to do the things that must be done the most (e.g. learning how to drive). Instead, I spend hours online researching what's wrong with my mental and physical health and how I can fix it because I'm not satisfied with my current state of mental and physical health.

When I say that I'm lacking in motivation, I'm not saying that I'm purposely being lazy. I used to be motivated when I was a teenager and I know what been motivated used to feel like, but I don't get that feeling anymore for some reason. I believe that a lack of motivation is a neurological problem and not something you can easily find. I don't know if I have lack of motivation because of my limited cognitive capacity preventing me from accomplishing my goals, or because my neurological problem is affecting my ability to feel motivated.

ale...@hotmail.de

unread,
Mar 29, 2015, 12:13:34 AM3/29/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com

Hey,

at first i want to apologize for my bad english, because i am not a native english speaker, but i as i read your post, i thought at the same time, that i have could have written this. I myself have similiar problems, starting by having a low iq, anxiety to drive a car, even if i have a driver license!! also problems with my appearence, how i do affect on people as a not so good looking person at all. Your Problems are alike mines a lack of good resources to manage the outside, competive worlds problems. It is not only related to one factor, because even a stupid person can drive car, you dont need a superior iq, but the combination of bad resources makes ones problems.

1) Social Skills: They are needed to deal with social problems, for example, if someone knows where its capabilities are, for example strenghts and weeknes, so it becomes easier to make the best decision upons resources. High social skills are needed to give you a valid picture of your true abilities, and how to interact with the society in general. (EQ)

2) Cognitive Capacity: Actually you mentioned it, as the one of the individuals top resources. Every one knows that a high iq can make ones independent, because it allows to express yourself in a way, that you become a needed person, instead of being depedent from your chef. You are able to do things other ones coudnt do, so you can distinguish yourself, and do what ever you want to do: math, physics, mechanical engineering? you can choose with an iq of 125. (IQ)

3) Appearence/ Outlook: If you are a good looking men, so the society would treat you in every single moment better. You are able to become good jobs, without doing big efforts, even when you have bad grades on college. I myself have a lots of troubles, because i dont have even the average appearances. My girlfriend is good looking, but she cant live with me, because most people said: Hey that guy is ugly, let him, he isnot in your league. There you shoulld take care of jeaulos people, because we live in world, in which we were judged upon resources and they even judge upon what could have or not. Do you have for example muscles? are you a strong and cool man to protect your girlfriend?

4) Status: Very important! which class? workingclass hero or the good one from harvard university? even if you are intelligence person, as a working class hero, you have always to defend yourself, and to show 200 % of your capacity, to say: Im not only good, i am a lot better!

5)  Money (material resources): It is clear, more money makes you indepedent, this one affect even on your status, because with it, you can generate a better status in this competve world.

6) Character/Emotional stability: the biopsychologic resources, for example to manage anxiety, because every human has different emotional characters. There are people who can drive a car, because they have developed throughout education, somehow selfconfindence and have lesser anxiety in general. But it is a biopsychological phanomen,that is related due to evronmental (experience from childhood, like freud said, that in early childhod a charakter become determinised) and the bilogical aspects, the resources which are strict related to genetic,

So every resources impacts on each other, because if you have a high intelligence, you can change your status, which some people became it, when they were born and educated by a good and rich family. A good status can even affect on intelligence, because good parents will give you the best education. A high resource index is a guarant for high selfexpression.


Human Resources Index: Location (eg, democratic country or undemocratic), intelligence (IQ = 70 or IQ = 180) Social intelligence (which I can how can I convince others rather Anticipates or reluctant EQ?), Status (Native or Migrant, Stigmatized), capital (million on the account or poor sock) and of course appearance (Frog or Prince, stigma)

Resources are relevant in society to survive as an individual in society, to secure his own postion as a person alike companies are able to generate within its resources social recognition and self-realization in the long term.

People are in a narrow sense as evolutionary corporate citizens and operate in a competitive society according to its resources complex, but only restrict rational because people have to adapt to restrictions (information asymmetry), throughout resource allocation.

No one falls in love with your nature, but moreover in your resources.
The capitalism is like nature itself, destructive, and only the strongest and the adapted individuals survive the relentless struggle for existence by means of the natural resources. Unequal distribution of resources is part of the injustice of nature itself, the prey must escape from the predator, which use his better resources to secure its existence. In capitalism ones with fewer resources must fight for his existance, because:

... The One who has little, where the few is still taken and the one, who much has, the more  will be given


My Conclusion: It isnot a single resource problem, because a high resource index, would  have given me the highest selfexpressions and independence. A good combination of high social skills and high cognitive intelligence, would overcome others bad factors, as seen in a competive, to my opinion, monsterlike society, which regards the human more than ever as economic resource, instead alike humans as emotional and rational complex being. Everythings become portioned and rationalised, thats my observation of the hard reality, where people accept you only because of your resource or not.

I hope that you can lift up some resources, because this would give you back the motivation to see youself as capable.
I myself, i have to point out, that the bad experiences have reopened my eyes, and i observed why some people have problems like this and some not. I myself have tried dual n back training and the behavioral training on raise your iq.com, but i think that they are dying horses in intelligence questions.



Brain Train

unread,
Mar 29, 2015, 4:14:00 AM3/29/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Why do you think that you are stupid?
2. What is your observation about yourself that made you think so?
- Because I couldn't get hired anywhere when I tried to find a job on my own so I had to get hooked at my mom's job. If I was to get a job right now, I probably still wouldn't be able to get hired due to anxiety and because I won't be able to/understand how to do the business side of things like asking for paychecks, asking for more/less hours. I'm also terrible at problem solving so I tend to struggle and freeze when I come across a problem while working while when most people would probably figure out quickly. I also couldn't handle community college or university.

this doesn't guarantee that you are stupid.
Jobs (employers) look for specific aspects of intelligence. A person great for R&D organisation can be an utter failure for a marketing position! He can easily think after few attempts at marketing positions (in the absence of R&D job openings), that he is stupid. you are mapping your failure to stupidity, because you have to find a reason for your failure. In the absence of better explanation.. this seems very obvious explanation.
You may be having specific strengths which most of the openings in the job market are not looking for.
Employers ignore deeper strengths, and prefer to go with superficial criteria (because that is easy to apply, and there is less risk involved. They are mostly looking for 'high certainty of about average performance'.

The point is that you don't have to be stupid for not being hired, being different from masses is enough!

3. Have you been professionally assessed for intelligence or some similar assessment for estimating your mental capabilities?
- The only test I've taken is IQ test.dk. I've scored somewhere between 105 - 110.
i don't know about the validity of this IQ score. but if it is reliable, it is not a bad score!
particularly because it is indicating you are above average (average being 100).
a deficit in single area of your brain can take the score down. the importance of IQ score in my opinion is only that it indicates some deficit somewhere (in your brain's various compartments).

you need to figure out which part is likely under performing (there are books to guide), exercise that part specifically (as against general training) and you should see big improvement quickly- in a matter of months!

4. What is holding you back from getting a driving licence?
- Anxiety about practicing on the real road. I'm also working so I don't have enough mental energy left to learn driving in my spare time because I naturally have low mental energy.

try taking ALCAR for boosting your energy level, it is to be taken empty stomach, first thing in the morning. avoid eating anything for about an hour. (it has to compete with glucose to enter brain through blood-brain barrier. so, when the glucose level is down, it has more chance to reach brain)
i noticed it took around 15 days to show its full impact. however, it improves focus immediately (within 15-30 minutes) and effect stays for few hours. Memory is improved in general, for example if you are trying to learn new words, you have to make lesser effort at memorising. it would be more easy to recall. above all, you will have energy and motivation to pick up word book and try!
it's immediate effect feels similar to coffee (in terms of focus and energy level).
it interferes with sleep after it is taken for few weeks. I guess it uplifts level of alertness, so, if it is taken by someone with poor attention/alertness level, it increases it to normal level, and if taken beyond that and alertness level goes above normal, it starts interfering with sleep. (sleep requires alertness to go down, which may not be able to go down sufficiently being elevated to abnormally higher level).
i take that condition as a meter/gauge that indicates enough of ALCAR is taken. and it can be reduced or stopped for time being.
5. What are the key challenges that your feel, in terms of mental capabilities:

Probably my biggest issue is Problem solving. I can tell that I lack the foresignt to understand the reasoning behind things while communicating with my coworkers. And the next thing would be Executive functions/Decision making because I'm slow at responding to others and arriving to my own conclusions. And maybe even some Working memory which might be inhibiting my ability to problem solve.

foresight needs deliberate effort. you need to contemplate, you need to see 'what will happen if..', what will happen next, and next. then pick other possibility and again think what will likely happen next, next, and so on..
 emotions are automatic, they don't need deliberate effort, for example, if you see a snake emotion of fear comes automatically. But reasoning is an inherently slow process. some people appear fast because they have thought about certain situations in advance or have faced similar situations already, so they have their reasoning tree for decision making already in place. for someone who is facing a situation for the first time, it would be difficult to respond quickly in a logical manner (using reasoning as the basis for response).

Anxiety seems to be a central feature in problems you face in different areas (learning driving, getting a job).
Even a perfectly normal person, can develop a tendency to feel over-anxious if he sees failures repeatedly.
it doesn't matter what is responsible for the failures- his deficits or situation/circumstances or just chance...
and once he becomes over-anxious, even if the original cause (or deficit) is gone, this over-anxiousness itself is enough to cause failure. then it becomes a self-perpatuating phenomenon (anxiety leads to failure and failure leads to anxiety)!
why is it so? because anxiety is designed to prompt you to take physical actions in the older world of living in wild... it diverts the blood from thinking/reasoning part of the brain to the action part of the brain. it triggers fight or  flight response
however, in modern world, what is required is mental effort not physical action (fight or flight). so, this is counter productive. in an interview, after first tough question, if you start feeling you are not going to get this job, it will trigger anxiety circuit. once it is triggered, then blood gets diverted away from thinking part of the brain.. it feels like your thinking process is frozen now. even if you are given more time, it feels like you are not able to think now any more... you just want to give up and run away from the situation.
what is the solution? develop self control. tell yourself to remain open to possibility of success, to wait for the judgement, to not conclude on your own. see that you are not going to gain anything by concluding in advance, or by giving up in advance. Instead of making 'getting the job' your goal, make 'making best effort' as your goal. Accept that outcome is beyond your control, you can only make best effort. outcome depends on 10,000 different things that are not in your control. but these 10,000 things keep changing, so in your next interview, this part may become more favourable (without you knowing), and you may get a job even when there is not much difference from your side.
the point is your performance is only one part of the equation (in getting job), don't take all the blame even if you don't get selected. however, analyse the interview, find out deficit areas and try to improve upon that.


how to solve anxiety problem?
brain circuits which are repeatedly used become more efficient at their job!
if your anxiety circuit is used more frequently, with higher intensities, your anxiety circuits will become very strong. which means you will need very small stimulus, to make you feel anxious!
this principle, in general is a blessing.. we can develop any part of the brain by exercising it.
but here it becomes a curse. However, at the neuronal level, same principle is working in both the cases.
neutrons that work harder, over time becomes stronger, and they become more efficient in doing their job.
so, what can you do?
stop yourself from 'having worrying thoughts for hours'.
this is difficult and needs executive control. if you have strong executive control you can put a stop on these thoughts (or any other thought) at your will. if not, you will find it too hard, you may feel that it is impossible.
so, you need to develop executive function.. and that is a general goal for so many of us on this forum.
1. aerobic exercises (particularly brisk walking or light jogging: half an hour twice a day may be enough) help.. easy to do, guaranteed improvement but only to an extent.
2. take enough sleep.. sleep is the biggest source of dopamine in our brain which plays critical part in executive function (attention/focus, memory). stop coffee (as it interferes with sleep) or take only in the early part of the day, so that by the time you go to bed, it is out of your blood stream. i read somewhere it's half life is 4 hour, which means even after 8 hours you still have 25% of caffeine in your body.
3. ALCAR will be great help.. as i explained earlier. 
it will give immediate relief and biggest thing is, it is easiest to implement! (unlike point 1 and 2)
it is like jump starting a car (with drained battery). once the engine is on, it will charge the battery.
but without external help engine wouldn't start.
so, use it only for jump starting your attentional system, once you are energised with it, start working on developing your brain circuits, so that you can live without the help of medication. real and long lasting strength will come only by strengthening your brain circuits. long term use is not advisable for various reasons (efficacy, side effects, etc.). so be careful to use the opportunity to turn on your natural abilities as soon as your energy levels goes up after using ALCAR.
4. avoid sweets, particularly in break fast. it makes a person more impulsive, less thoughtful.
5. meditation: it is a long term solution, don't expect any help/significant relied due to it in near future. you may decide to start investing time in it as it will help you big way over the YEARS (NOT in days or weeks!).
it exercises the circuit responsible for paying attention to the attention...thus improves attention control which is every one of us requires more and more. 
it also cools down emotional circuits by intentionally rejecting all kind of thoughts during mediation session.
emotions get exaggerated only when the related thoughts are entertained repeatedly. thoughts act on emotions like oxygen acts on fire .. if you cut the supply of thoughts, emotions will slowly subside and vanish!
emotional circuits gets higher priority in blood supply over reasoning circuits. unless you do something to stop them, they will have upper hand in determining what you think (and hence what you do)... moment to moment!

in your case, there are two very strong positive things:
1. awareness: you are already aware that you have some problem.. this is battle half won. if one knows one has some deficit he can compensate for that by putting extra effort, by alotting extra time for certain tasks. and it allows him to take corrective action to address fundamental causes/limitations.
2. your willingness to improve: this often becomes a decisive factor. people who are very passionate about something are very likely to make tremendous progress over time.. it may take very long time but it happens.
reason may be that they are willing to put extra effort for whatever is required to achieve the goal. effect of efforts accumulate over time and which makes the difference.
(for example you must have put a lot of effort and time to study the material, do the analysis, find this forum... this is not easy, not everyone in your situation will do it)
in my opinion, it proves to be a biggest differentiating factor over long term, in determining success in achieving a chosen goal- your willingness to improve, your level of passion for the goal.

so, i am very hopeful that you will overcome hurdles and realise your dreams, provided you don't give up and keep your passions alive!
- BT

jttoto2

unread,
Mar 30, 2015, 2:43:04 PM3/30/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Several questions and comments:

1)  How often are you exercising?  There is typically a dose-response regarding cognition and exercise.  Typically 30 minutes a day, daily.
2)  Fix your DSPS ASAP!  Rodents entrained to a delayed sleep cycle, for whatever reason, get sickly, exhibit cognitive problems, and get depressed/anxious.  I'm sure this can be replicated in humans, given what we know about shift workers.  Wake up at 6am and get an hour of morning sunlight, then darken your room and cut electronics no later than 9pm. 
3)  I'm certain that your gut problems are exacerbating, or are the direct cause, of your cognitive and anxiety issues.  I'm not going to pull the several thousands to articles on the subject, as a simple Google Scholar search will do.  Talk to a specialist that knows something about optimizing gut health, given your circumstances. 
4)  Don't worry about getting a job from someone you know.  I don't think I ever had a job unless I knew a friend of family in the company.  It's called networking, and anyone who is smart about advancing their career does it.  If your parents are shaming you for this, then shame on them.
5)  Juicing takes out dietary fiber, which consequently is key to optimal gut health and mitigating allergic response.  Don't do it.  Eat your fruits and vegetables whole, and replace it with everything save fish, legumes, etc.



On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:25:47 PM UTC-4, Heinstar wrote:
So I didn’t realise how stupid I was until my younger brother started doing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m ready to learn driving and I couldn’t handle community college/university because I lacked the motivation, drive and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you could guess, I constantly get compared to him by everyone and I’m looked as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I know that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like a dirt because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the environmental toxins that I was exposed to growing up or in the womb. Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here:  http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/14164-which-health-problem-could-be-aggravating-my-acne/. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon and Acid reflux/GERD are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve looked into common diseases that affects people's cognition. I went and got tested for thyroid disorder and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. I’ve heard that you can still have a thyroid disorder even if it’s in the range because your thyroid may not be in the optimal range for your own physiology, but how am I supposed to prove that to my doctor? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has been dry since my 20’s, but this could just be due to eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my complete blood test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0
 
What I’m certain that I have is DSPS which I've developed in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, lack of physical/mental energy and depression. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency/abnormality in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. 
 
I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like depression, anxiety, lack of energy, lack of motivation/drive and DSPS. But I’m too scared to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 
 
To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive a car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating healthy, juicing vegetables, taking krill oil, vitamin d3 and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to become an independent, functional adult. 
 
So I’m considering trying the nootropics below to see if they can help me become a functional adult. Here’s the list of nootropics that I’m considering trying:
- L-theanine + Caffeine 
- MCT oil/Brain Octane w/ Coffee 
- tDCS/Neurofeedback/DNB
- Unfair Advantage
- CILTEP 
- Alpha Brain
- ALCAR
- DMAE
- GABA
- Huperzine A
- Sulbutamine
- Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam/Noopept/Pramiracetam/Phenylpiracetam/Coluracetam/Nefiracetam/Fasoracetam/Sunifiram + Alpha GPC/CDP choline
- Modafinil
- E-Cigarretes/Nicotine - Too much risk with very little gain
- Adderall/Ritalin - Too much risk with very little gain
 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

jotaro

unread,
Mar 30, 2015, 5:53:34 PM3/30/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
in short

fix sleep

excercise

gut health

stick to jobs though friends its a better option(i cant relay on this
option though.)

GUT HEALTH.


jjoto i go to sleep in 03:00 and wake up in 11:00
:) after midnight dont think i have problems but have consistency of the pattern.

--

jagunit

unread,
Mar 31, 2015, 2:38:24 PM3/31/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
FYI pretty sure that dk test is bulshit.  I've scored a 168 LSAT, 1500 GRE, and had something around your score on that test when I took it a while back (maybe even less lol, can't remember).  I've scored 135-143 on paymand's tests on here.  

In addition to the major things suggested by other people (exercise, meditation being the main ones), your problem is almost entirely psychological.  It can be remedied by:

Embracing the 'growth' mindset, and the inherent malleability of the brain: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-15369851

Reading: 

The Art of Learning (Waitzkin)
Mindset (Dweck)
Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life's Greatest Challenges

Taking Vitamin D, antidepressants if prescribed after seeing a psychiatrist, CBT w/a psychologist, Fish Oil, etc.

Best of luck.
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

Heinstar

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 1:34:53 AM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
1)  How often are you exercising?  There is typically a dose-response regarding cognition and exercise.  Typically 30 minutes a day, daily.

I exercise 1 - 3 times a week. When I exercise, I first jog at a normal speed for about 30 - 50 minutes on a treadmill at the gym and then finish the last 10 minutes running as fast as I can. I used to exercise almost daily 4 years ago but I'm not as energetic as back then.

2)  Fix your DSPS ASAP!  Rodents entrained to a delayed sleep cycle, for whatever reason, get sickly, exhibit cognitive problems, and get depressed/anxious.  I'm sure this can be replicated in humans, given what we know about shift workers.  Wake up at 6am and get an hour of morning sunlight, then darken your room and cut electronics no later than 9pm.  

I've tried fixing my sleep multiple times but it always goes back to the same time. 

3)  I'm certain that your gut problems are exacerbating, or are the direct cause, of your cognitive and anxiety issues.  I'm not going to pull the several thousands to articles on the subject, as a simple Google Scholar search will do.  Talk to a specialist that knows something about optimizing gut health, given your circumstances.  

It's possible that my sub-optimal gut is affecting my overall health and cognition. But unfornutately, the damage has already been done. It's been well over 3 years since I've developed gut problems so I think my gut has already done all the healing it could by now and the rest is permanent damage. I could try taking L-glutamine, N-A-C, Colostrum and bone broth to see if my gut lining, flora and permeability heals but I highly doubt it. It might have been useful when I was actually suffering from inflamed gut problems back then(e.g. severe constipation, gastritis) but I don’t have those issues now. I’ve read that 90% of the serotonin is produced from the gut so it’s possible that’s the reason why my anxiety and depression skyrocketed. But even if I’m suffering from a low-serotonin levels due to my damaged enteric nervous system, I’d need some kind of medical breakthrough drug to cure it. To optimise my gut health, I’m currently taking VSL#3 daily which is about all I can do. 

5)  Juicing takes out dietary fiber, which consequently is key to optimal gut health and mitigating allergic response.  Don't do it.  Eat your fruits and vegetables whole, and replace it with everything save fish, legumes, etc.

I need to keep juicing(especially carrots), because that’s the only thing that has cured my severe acne which I started getting after developing gut problems 3 years ago. I used to eat as much vegetables as I could throughout the day but I was still getting cystic acne breakouts. I even went to the dermatologist but all he did was put me on Accutane which gave me severe side effects(memory loss, uncontrollable anger, severe fatigue and depression, permanently yellow stained toenail) so I couldn’t take it for longer than 5 days. When all hope was lost, I tried juicing and to my surprise, it put my severe acne in permanent remission. I don’t exactly know why juicing keeps my acne at bay but seems to be working.  For fibre, I eat oatmeal every day so my regularity should be fine.

jotaro

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 2:00:14 AM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
lol most nootropics(99%) dont have any noticable effect.
and no nootropics are safer then the psychiatric meds.
u got some good advice before, why wouldnt u even bother apply it?

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
So I ordered Piracetam and Aniracetam from Nootropics Depot well over 3 weeks ago but probably due to the Australian customs, it hasn't arrived yet. So I got fed up with waiting and ordered Aniracetam from Bulk Nutrients few days ago and it arrived in the mail just yesterday. I orignially didn't want to use nootropics from Bulk Nutrients because it isn't listed in the reddit's reliable supplier's list, but a stressful event was coming up so I couldn't wait any longer.
 
Today, I took 800mg of Aniracetam(measured 0.80g on digital scale) and it barley had any noticeable effect on me. I regret not having self-control and I'm begnning to think that if I keep going like this, I may end up doing even more harmful things to myself. As much as I'm afraid of antidepressants messing up my neurotransmitters, I'm starting to think that it might be better than randomly experimenting with nootropics. The reason why I want to try nootropics is because I don't like being dependent/addicted to coffee to control my proneness to depression.
 
Would you agree that antidepressants + CBT is safer than randmonly taking nootropics to treat depression, mental illness and cognitive deficits?

--

jotaro

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 2:26:55 AM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
psychiatric meds been proven to work is dubious, just a way to justify this billion dollar industry.
they can "prove" whatever they want and it still be false, they have a hidden motive for cash.

people take those meds now more then ever, and those "diseases"
are now more then ever how is that for correlation btw meds and its
supposedly "working" results.

nootropic nor meds gonna save u
at best they give u small results at a possibility of a large cost of fucking yourself up.

LIKE i said  u got some good advice and u ignore it.
(NOT NOOTS AND NOT MEDS).

if u want noots try searching longecity for information, and then check it on reddit as well. longecity are risk takers, but u will find ideas of what to take.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you sure that nootropics are safer than antidepressants? It's either I take nootropics until I find the ones that fixes my cognitive deficits, mental illness, anxiety and depression. Or I take antidepressants which has been scientifically proven to work on all of those aspects(except of cognitive deficit). Which is why I figured, perhaps I should have taken antidepressants from the beginning instead of going the nootropics route.

jagunit

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 12:11:32 PM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Use Pantothenic Acid for the acne, trust me.  Especially if you're only juicing for that reason (Not that juicing is necessarily an unhealthy thing, just saw other poster mentioned you should stop for health reasons.  I have not looked at that aspect of your predicament).

And as another poster said, I'd suggest you try the methods proposed by others before feeling disheartened.  Read those books man.  Check Library Genesis to get them online.  Def consider CBT, either with a therapist or self conducted.

Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

jagunit

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 12:16:09 PM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Sure industry has a cash incentive, but doesn't necessarily discount the efficacy of antidepressants.  May not be night and day, but I'd suggest one at least met with a psychiatrist and discuss your issues.  From personal experience, they can make a difference.  Especially with 'resetting' negative thought patterns that so often precipitate depressive episode.  I would probably rank meditation, exercise, sleep, family/friends above medication, but all of those techniques have industries with monetary incentives behind their promotion.  Doesn't render them useless. 
Have I missed any nootropics? Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

jotaro

unread,
Apr 3, 2015, 2:36:53 PM4/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
my main issue with the meds is that those things are drugs with serious side effects with the possibility for leaving u with permanent damage.

saw people in longecity complain they cant recover to how they used to be after being exposed to PSYchiatric meds after some use and
even after some time has passed since they stopped using it.
And guess what? they still complain about the problems they started to take the meds for in the first place.
so temporarily relieve is the benefit(at best) but the cost is permanent damage(at worst).
sounds like a bad deal.

--

whoisbambam

unread,
Apr 4, 2015, 2:43:51 PM4/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
see my posts:

ksm-66, zembrin, and silexan all combined, daily, will reduce anxiety (ksm-66 needs to be taken at night too)........

truly amazing combination

nsi-189, 40-80mg daily, *might* induce hippocampal neurogenesis and reverse effects of long term stress/anxiety/depression.......permanently

it is protected by patent--but some of the previous sellers may still have some in stock

and, of course, there is ebay.ph





On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 1:12:10 AM UTC-5, Heinstar wrote:
Are you sure that nootropics are safer than antidepressants? It's either I take nootropics until I find the ones that treats my cognitive deficits, mental illness, anxiety and depression. Or I take antidepressants which has been scientifically proven to work on all of those aspects(except for cognitive deficit). Which is why I figured, perhaps I should have taken antidepressants from the beginning instead of going the nootropics route.


On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 4:00:14 PM UTC+10, JokyBoy wrote:

diff...@yahoo.com

unread,
Apr 5, 2015, 8:24:22 PM4/5/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
What you are describing sounds like emotional an regulation issue not cognitive deficits.  I hear overwhelming anxiety and lack of motivation. Overwhelming emotions interfere with cognition and prevent effective executive functioning. 

Mindfulness meditation such as deep breathing exercises will bring immediate relief.  Then you need to start simply as you have done and work toward gradual improvement.  Progress by inches is OK as long as you keep trying.  The lack of motivation is due to frustration.  Give yourself time. Working with your Mom is a good idea.  Gradually take on more of the responsibility yourself.  When you feel yourself overwhelmed, take a minute or two to just breath.  It does get better over time if you keep trying.  It might be until you're thirty before your emotions mellow out more.


On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 10:42:52 AM UTC-7, Heinstar wrote:
1. Why do you think that you are stupid?
2. What is your observation about yourself that made you think so?

1. Because I couldn't get hired anywhere when I tried to find a low level job on my own so I had to get hooked up at my mom's job. I just do the job that's required by me and my mom takes care of all my business stuff like getting paychecks, asking for more/less shifts, declining/accepting shifts since I'm afraid I can't do them on my own. If I was to get a job right now, I probably still wouldn't be able to get hired due to being overwhelmed with anxiety and because I won't be able to understand how to do the business side of things like asking for paychecks, asking for more/less shifts, accepting/declining shifts and there's probably more missing which I didn't list here. I'm also terrible at problem solving so I tend to struggle and freeze when I come across a problem while working when most people would probably figure out and move on quickly. 
2. I couldn't handle community college or university.
3. I'm terrible at communicating with other people.

3. Have you been professionally assessed for intelligence or some similar assessment for estimating your mental capabilities?

- The only test I've taken is IQ test.dk. I've scored somewhere between 105 - 110.

4. What is holding you back from getting a driving licence?

- Anxiety about learning to drive on the real road and a self-doubt with my ability to learn to drive. I'm also working casually so I don't have enough mental energy left to learn driving in my spare time because I naturally have low mental energy. I've already tried learning to drive 4 years ago when I didn't even have a job but I didn't get very far because I was a very slow learner. Now, I have even less time so if I was to learn to drive now while working casually, it's going to take a very very long time.

5. What are the key challenges that your feel, in terms of mental capabilities:

- Probably my biggest issue is Problem solving. I can tell that I lack the foresight to understand the reasoning behind things while communicating with my coworkers. And the next thing would be Executive functions/Decision making because I'm very slow at responding to others/environment, making decisions on the spot, and arriving to my own conclusions. And another one would probably be motivation/drive/grit, I used to be more motivated when I was younger but now I barely have a passion for anything anymore. Last one would be learning, I'm very slow at adapting to new situations and picking things up. There's probably more but those four are the ones that stands out the most.

Also, when I say that I'm lacking in motivation, I'm not saying that I'm purposely being lazy. I used to be motivated when I was younger and I know what it used to feel like, but I don't get that feeling anymore. I believe that a lack of motivation is a neurological problem and not something you can easily find. I don't know if I have lack of motivation because I understand that I have a limited cognitive capacity, or because my neurological problem is affecting my ability to feel motivated.

Lastly, what's holding me back which is related to motivation is that I don't have my priorities in order. I have an anxiety and lack of motivation for the things that really needs to be done(e.g. learning to drive) instead, I spend hours online researching what's wrong with my mental and physical health and how I can fix it because I'm not satisfied with my current state of mental and physical health.

Da Man

unread,
Apr 23, 2015, 4:12:13 PM4/23/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Heinstar.  You have all of the cognitive abilities you need to succeed in life!  Here are your immediate first steps:

1. Switch from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset.  Read "Mindset: The New Psychology of Success" (http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Success-Carol-Dweck/dp/0345472322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429819298&sr=8-1&keywords=fixed+mindset)

Mindset is "an established set of attitudes held by someone," says the Oxford American Dictionary. It turns out, however, that a set of attitudes needn't be so set, according to Dweck, professor of psychology at Stanford. Dweck proposes that everyone has either a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. A fixed mindset is one in which you view your talents and abilities as... well, fixed. In other words, you are who you are, your intelligence and talents are fixed, and your fate is to go through life avoiding challenge and failure. A growth mindset, on the other hand, is one in which you see yourself as fluid, a work in progress. Your fate is one of growth and opportunity. Which mindset do you possess? Dweck provides a checklist to assess yourself and shows how a particular mindset can affect all areas of your life, from business to sports and love. The good news, says Dweck, is that mindsets are not set: at any time, you can learn to use a growth mindset to achieve success and happiness. This is a serious, practical book. Dweck's overall assertion that rigid thinking benefits no one, least of all yourself, and that a change of mind is always possible, is welcome.

2. Read: "What to Say When You Talk to Your Self"


Each of us is programmed from birth on, and as much as 75% or more of our programming may be negative or working against us. In this newly updated and revised eBook edition, Shad Helmstetter shows the reader how to erase and replace past mental programs with healthy, new programs that can be positively life-changing. Considered by many to be one of the most important and helpful personal growth books ever written. 

Other things that you can also do:

- Find a good psychologist and tell him/her you have low self esteem.
- Study Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT).  There are LOTS of books on this subject.
- Fix your diet.  Cut out trans-fats and sugar.  Limit your intake of red meat.  Eat lots of raw fruits, nuts, and vegetables.  Research brain foods (hint: kale, blueberries, wheat grass, chia seeds, almonds, etc)
- Learn and practice Mindfullness
- Find a support group on Meetup.

Best of luck!!!    


On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:25:47 PM UTC-4, Heinstar wrote:
I never realised how stupid I was until my younger brother started accomplishing things that I couldn't do at my age as he became older. I’m almost 25 but I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m mentally ready to start learning driving and I couldn’t handle community college or university because I lacked the motivation, persistence and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 

On the other hand, my 4 years younger brother already lives on his own, he’s almost about to graduate from university and he already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you would've guessed, I constantly get compared to my younger brother by everyone and I’m seen as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I'm aware that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference and because there’s so much difference, I get treated like crap because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid I am myself. I still remember what my father told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.

I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid, it’s probably just genetic but it could be the toxic chemicals I was exposed to growing up or in the womb, being deficient in iodine or omega-3 in the womb, bunch of medications given when I was hospitalized twice for my asthma attack when I was 10 y/o, hitting my head on the ground and fracturing my collarbone during soccer in 2006, long-term use of Minocycline/Doxycycline, past caffeine abuse, gut issues I've developed in 2012, having been under general anaesthesia twice in 2013, experiencing severe side effect from five days on Accutane in 2014, possible hypothyroid, mitochondrial dysfunction, neurological problems(dopamine/serotonin deficiency/ADD) etc etc.

Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I have to figure out how to get out of it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his mother(my parents are divorced). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and wants me out of the house as soon as possible.

What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21 in 2012. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. I go into detail about how I've developed these gastric conditions here: 
http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/14164-which-health-problem-could-be-aggravating-my-acne/#entry111384. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon and Acid reflux/GERD are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 

Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve started researching common diseases that affects people's cognition. I've been tested for my thyroid levels and my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range. However, I’ve heard that you can still have thyroid issues even if it’s in the 'range' because the 'range' is mostly used by people who are already hypo/hyperthyroid, so my thyroid levels may not be in the optimal range for my own body. But how am I supposed to prove to my doctor that I have thyroid issues if my thyroids are in range? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid disease was because my right hand has become chronically dry since my 20’s, but this could just be from eczema though. This is what my right hand looks like: http://imgur.com/a/oGsVd#15 I’ve also been tested for Celiac disease and it came back negative. Here's my full blood and thyroid test results: http://imgur.com/a/1igWg#0

I've also developed DSPS in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and wake up until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.

As I got older, I became heavily dependent on caffeine to help me get through the day. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, depression, lack of physical and mental energy. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 3 weeks of withdraw period. So I could have some kind of dopamine/serotonin deficiency in the brain which is making me dependent on coffee. 

I’ve wondered if antidepressants could help fix my mental issues like proneness to anxiety and depression, low motivation, lack of physical and mental energy and DSPS. But I’m too afraid to try SSRIs because I’ve heard that SSRIs can mess up your neurotransmitters. 

To be honest, I’m uncertain if my cognition will dramatically improve even if I manage it fix my physical and mental health problems because I think that the main problem is my below average intelligence. So I think my only option is to supplement with nootropics. If nootropics can help me become an independent adult who can find his own job, drive a car and live on his own, I think that's worth trading for the side effects of promoting diseases or shortening my lifespan. To me, I see nootropic as a medication for my brain to help me live a normal life. 

I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating whole and drinking juiced vegetables, taking krill oil, vitamin d3 and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to start becoming an independent, functional adult. 

So I’m strongly considering trying nootropics to see if they can help me become an functional adult. Can anyone tell me which nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

Neitherlands

unread,
Apr 25, 2015, 3:06:47 PM4/25/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Don't go down the route of self-medication with nootropics. I'm very similar to you but started on that path around my 18th birthday. They exacerbated the gut and sleep issues (Piracetam, Adrafinil) and negatively affected my confidence.   I became dependent on Piracetam for social/verbal interaction. This helped me grow a lot socially for a few months until the gut problems started to get worse and I couldn't string two sentences together without a large amount of it in my system. I was also overusing caffeine (I still take it today, but modestly) there were a lot of other factors at play back then, but I believe these were the most negative. 

Skipping a lot of time, mystical experience, reading; I'm still not completely independent today, but I've started working away from home, and I now grow about 60-70% of my own calorie intake (tons of herbs, fruits, organic vegetables). I've been dumping a lot of my modest part-time income for the last year 1/2 into automating this process so that I still have time to work and study.
This activity has and continues to stimulate growth in all aspects of my life. I credit it to all the sun exposure, exercise, and the healthy food; I'm in the middle of a personal renaissance and I don't think I would be here if I didn't quit taking nootropics and searching for a magic bullet. It's everything combined and the gains are slow and you have to keep with it until you hit a tipping point. I don't know what else to say. 

Find the overly philosophical and possibly bearded old guy in your neighborhood. He might be a gatekeeper. You need some type of integrative experience that ties everything you know together into something you can be passionate about. 

jotaro

unread,
Apr 25, 2015, 6:47:37 PM4/25/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Piracetam, Adrafinil

are all harmful substances, wouldnt take those,

piractem full of BRAIN FOG complaints, and the other one definetly will ruin your sleep.

dont know nootropics sometimes can be usefull but those particular two i have never taken because they look dangerous.

actually "dump my income to automate this proccess"
this is quite the undertaking right here, very inspiring.


--

Heinstar

unread,
Apr 26, 2015, 4:35:25 AM4/26/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Could someone explain why I should be getting therapy over a cognitive profile test by a licensed Psychologist? Is it because there are no medications/supplements in existence that's going to help fix my brain and health/gut?
 
Because I was considering getting a IQ test or a other cognition test done by a Psychologist(or a brain scan by a Neurologist). If it turns out I have ADHD(which I doubt), my issues will be resolved through ADHD medications. But if it turns out I just have cognitive deficits without ADHD, I'm worried that I'm just going to be sent home without any help even if I'm mentally incapable as much as a person who suffers from ADHD. 
 
The reason why I'm so reluctant to get therapy is because I can't see how changing the way I think through therapy is going to help me survive in the real world, get a job and move out because my issues are NOT emotional. The reason why I have low self-esteem is because of my cognitive deficits affecting every areas of my life. What if after months of therapy, it doesn't help me? It's going to be a waste of time. The only benefit I can see from getting a therapy is that I won't have to work full-time(55 hours a fortnight minimum) for Centrelink while I'm having therapy.
 
What I strongly believe I have is a cognitive deficit issue like low motivation, low mental and physical energy, learning/memorising/attention/mental processing issues, avoiding social interaction(I have no friends since I don't enjoy talking to people and I can't communicate very well), proness to anxiety and depression etc. What I'm usure is where this cognitive deficit is coming from. I don't know if it's from my health issues(thyroid, gut, mitochondria, hormones, injury to enteric or central nervous system) or from my brain(D2 receptors, synapse, chemical imbalance, hippocampal damage). But considering the fact that I couldn't even remember 4 digit codes I use at work every day while I was on roaccutane, I believe that my cognitive issues are coming directly from the brain.
 
Because I'm terrible at communicating and have bad memory, I'm considering printing what I wrote below and showing to the therapist/doctor, do you think it would allow me get better help? I've trimmed everything down as much as I could.

Summary: 
  • My cognitive deficiency/weakness is affecting my life. I feel like I’m mentally incapable of working at a low-end a job, learning to drive and moving out.
 
My cognitive issues:
  • low motivation
  • I put things off to the last minute no matter how easy it is unless it's something I find enjoyable e.g. Video games, it's really hard for me to start a task, especially without the aid of Coffee. 
  • Impaired Executive functions/Decision making - I'm very slow at responding to others and the environment, analyzing and making decisions on the spot, and arriving to conclusions. 
  • terrible short and long-term memory e.g. I occasionally forget if I washed my body with soap few seconds ago during shower since I wasn't paying attention and I end up washing my body twice.
  • low mental energy
  • terrible problem solving
  • slow mental processing speed 
  • proneness to anxiety and depression
  • unhealthy coping mechanism/self-destructive behaviour/self-medication/substance use
  • I have no friends and have no desire to make any or socialise. I withdrawal from social interaction since I don’t enjoy socialising
  • I become slow minded and depressed as soon as I stop drinking coffee. I’ve tried quitting coffee for 4 weeks but I still noticed my brain working very slowly and I felt depressed and low in mental energy all day without the aid of coffee. So I had to go back to drinking coffee daily.
  • I have difficulty falling asleep sleep until 3:00 am and can’t wake up until 11:00 am due to my Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder.
 
What my cognitive issues are causing in real life:
  • I’m having trouble learning to drive, getting a low-end job and moving out due to my above mental problems. I know I’m incapable of accomplishing these goals as of right now due to my cognitive deficiency. 
 
Root Source of my Anxiety and Depression:
  • My current job stopped giving me shifts. So I now constantly get pressured to find a full-time second job by Centrelink.  But I feel like I’m mentally incapable of handling low-end job like McDoanlds or SubWay. I have high anxiety about looking for a second job because know I’m mentally incapable of working at most places due to my cognitive deficiency mentioned above and it’s worsening my anxiety and my unhealthy coping behaviour.
  • Being compared to my more successful younger brother by my parents and my co-workers.
 
Example of my unhealthy coping mechanism:
For the past month, I’ve been trying to fix my cognitive deficits and my overall health by self-medicating with supplements. I’ve been self-medicating in a limited time constraint while being pressured to get a second-job as soon as possible by Centrelink. And as I result, I’ve made a lot of mistakes and overdosed on several supplements:
  • After chewing 4mg nicotine gum, I became very close to dialing 000 from feeling extremely sick and having a pressure in my spinal cord but I didn’t call the number due to embarrassment. 
  • Overdosing on coffee (drank 700 – 1000mg worth of Coffee in under a minute) last year when caffeine stopped working and I was in a pressure to finish my assignment. I felt very nauseous and had prickling sensation in my nerves throughout my body.
  • Overdosing on 200mcg Selenium tablets trying to fix my possibly sluggish thyroid and felt very sick from it.
 
How I feel about myself:
  • I feel mentally incapable/stupid and ashamed myself because I’m almost 25 years old and I can’t drive, find a job or handle University. Also, because my younger brother is significantly more successful than I am, I constantly get compared to him by my parents and by my co-workers which further makes me feel ashamed of myself.
 
Possible Cause of my Cognitive deficiency/weakness:
  1. unlucky genetic make up causing me to have low IQ/unstable mental health
  2. Severe side effect from roaccutane changing my brain 
  3. Other past injuries or undiagnosed health issues that I’m not aware of. 
 
Root Cause of my self-destructive behaviour:
  1. Landlord filing for bankruptcy, bank taking over our house and having to move out to a worse, and more expensive house that's right next to the noisy road.
  2. My younger brother starting to accomplish more things immediately after moving to a new house such as getting a drivers license and regularly driving to work and starting a second year in college. I'm happy for his success but his success has caused me to constantly get compared and looked down upon by my mom and my co-workers which is making me feel ashamed of myself.
  3. Constantly being pressured to find a second full-time job by Centrelink when I know I’m mentally incapable to work anywhere with my current mental status. 
  4. Severe side effect from roaccutane and several mental side effects still persisting even after 5 months. For example, I’ve lost motivation to study this year and dropped out even though the workload is the same as last year.
 
Things I’m considering doing: 
  • Testosterone test? I’ve heard that low T could affect cognition.
  • Thyroid test (apparenlty, I've already been tested for full thyroid according to my doctor.)
  • Endocrine test?
  • Adrenal Insufficiency?
  • Sleep Disorder?
  • MRI scan of brain to see where my cognitive issues are?
  • Cognitive assessment test to find out where my cognitive issues are?
  • Uridine + Fish Oil + B-Complex + Vitamin E + Alpha GPC?
  • SSRI?
  • Amphetamines?
  • Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to fix my mental health? I’m personally skeptical of therapy because I believe that my cognitive issues are a biological problem.
Question to doctor:
  • What do you recommend that I do?

I've already booked an appointment with the therapist and I don't know how I'm going to explain my situation since there's so many factors involved but I'll do my best and seek for quality help.

Heinstar

unread,
May 2, 2015, 11:44:52 PM5/2/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I've tried asking in Reddit without much success in getting help. I've also asked in Bulletproof forum but all I'm getting is useless emotional support. Longecity was my last resort but the thread has gotten way too long because I can't edit my posts on that site. If you have any practical tips (not emotional support since that will lead to nowhere) that might help, please let me know. But from all of the Supplements I've taken so far, it seems like my only option is to get a therapy since they don't seem to be helping much.

ben

unread,
May 3, 2015, 3:51:38 AM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
You have a bunch of self-limiting beliefs.
1. QUIT TV, you probably watch a ton
2. STOP FAPPING
3. GO WORKOUT
4. WORK ON YOUR FUCKING NUTRITION GO VEGAN
5. START TO TRAIN 5x/WEEK DNB/TNB/QNB
6. USE TDCS
7. READ BOOKS
8. USE CES
9. YOUR PROBLEMS WON'T BE SOLVED THROUGH MEDICALS

10. LISTEN TO FUCKING ANTHONY ROBBINS
this guy will help you Change your mindset so badly fast, it's a joke lol

11. MEDITATOIN
12. USE EMWAVE2 45 min./DAY
BEFORE YOU'VE WORKED OUT EVERYTHING I'VE LISTED HERE, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN GO TO DOCTOR.
TILL NOW IT WAS OK, NOW YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR AWARENESS AND CAN'T DODGE IT ANYMORE. IF YOU STILL DODGE MY POST, IT'S YOUR FAULT FROM NOW ON.

NOW GET FUCKING MAD AT YOUR LIFE. YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING GODDAMIT.

Stop blaming your mother, other persons, your childhood whatever for cognitive declines or whatever.
Blame yourself it's noones fault and you've chosen your lifepath, who your parents are e.t.c.
Stop blaming anyone except yourself. Don't even blame yourself, it will just make you feel bad.
I've listed a ton of stuff now which will make you turn into superhuman 1337.
Work on it or it's your fault.
And grow the fuck up, your past does not equal the future. Stop blaming anyone.
The path to integrate evreything i've listed into your life is not easy, but it will be worth it, like anything in life.

Am Sonntag, 3. Mai 2015 05:44:52 UTC+2 schrieb Heinstar:
I won't be updating this post anymore since I'm no longer getting any advice. I've tried asking in Reddit too without much success in getting help either. But I'm still updating the post I've made in the Bulletproof forum in much more detail for those who are able help me. If you have any practical tips (not emotional support since that will lead to nowhere) that might help, please let me know. But from all of the Supplements I've taken so far, it seems like my only option is to get a therapy since they don't seem to be helping much.

On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 6:35:25 PM UTC+10, Heinstar wrote:
Could someone explain why I should be getting a psychotherapy over a cogntive profile test by a licensed Psychologist? Is it because there are no medications/supplements in existence that's going to help fix my brain and health/gut?

Because I was considering getting a IQ test or a other cognition test done by a Psychologist(or a brain scan by a Neurologist). If it turns out I have ADHD(which I doubt), my issues will be resolved through ADHD medications. But if it turns out I just have cognitive deficits without ADHD, I'm worried that I'm just going to be sent home without any help even if I'm mentally incapable as much as a person who suffers from ADHD. 

The reason why I'm so reluctant to get Psychotherapy is because I can't see how changing the way I think through therapy is going to help me survive in the real world, get a job and move out because my issues are NOT emotional. The reason why I have low self-esteem is because of my cognitive deficits affecting every areas of my life. What if after months of therapy, it doesn't help me? It's going to be a waste of time. The only benefit I can see from getting a therapy is that I won't have to work full-time(55 hours a fortnight minimum) for Centrelink while I'm having therapy.

What I strongly believe I have is a cognitive deficit issue like low motivation, low mental and physical energy, learning/memorising/attention/mental processing issues, avoiding social interaction(I have no friends since I don't like talking to people and I can't communicate very well), proness to anxiety and depression etc. What I'm usure is where this cognitive deficit is coming from. I don't know if it's from my health issues(thyroid, gut, mitochondria, hormones, damaged enteric or central nervous system) or from my brain(D2 receptors, synapse, chemical imbalance, hippocampal damage). But considering the fact that I couldn't even remember 4 digit codes I use at work every day while I was on roaccutane, I believe that my cognitive issues are coming directly from the brain. What's really scary is that I used to work at McDonalds when I was 15 years old. And now, I can't even imagine myself being able to work at McDonalds even though I'm 25 years old. I don't think I'd be able to turn up to work in time, learn how to cook, respond quickly to orders, have enough mental energy to last 8 hour shift, communitate with other employees etc. And back then, I didn't even have to rely on coffee for energy unlike now. That's how much my health and cognition has deteriorated since graduating from High School.

P.S. I've updated my Supplement experience in my earlier post.

Because I'm terrible at communicating and have bad memory, I'm considering printing what I wrote below and showing to the doctor, do you think it would allow me get better help? I've trimmed everything down as much as I could.
 
My cognitive deficits are affecting my life and it’s affecting my ability to look for a low-end job, socialise/make friends and become an independent adult.

My cognitive issues:
  • low motivation
  • bad short and long-term memory
  • low mental energy
  • proness to anxiety and depression
  • unhealthy coping mechanism and self-destructive behaviour/substant use e.g. drinking high amounts of coffee when I’m anxious
  • withdrawing from social interaction since I don’t enjoy socialising
  • dependence on caffeine to function

My main source of anxiety:
  • having to look for a second job by Centrelink because I know I’m mentally incapable of working due to my cognitive issues mentioned above and it’s worsening my axiety and my unhealthy coping behaviour.

Possible root cause of my cognitive deficit/weakness:
  1. gut issues(sub-optimal intestinal flora, permeability; elongated colon etc.) affecting my cognition
  2. unlucky genetic make up causing me to have abnormal brain
  3. other injuries/health issues that I’m not aware of

Note:
  • I had mental issues prior to going on roaccutane but roaccutane exacerbated my issues. I’ve noticed that caffeine doesn’t work as well as it used to and my brain just doesn’t work the same. I also lost motivation to study this year and dropped out even though the workload is the same.
  • For the past month, I’ve been trying to fix my cognitive deficits and gut issues by self-medicating with supplements.
  • I used to work at McDonalds when I was 15 but I can’t even imagine myself being able to work there now. 
  • I don’t know if my cognitive deficits are coming from my health issues or from my brain. But I think it’s from my brain since while I was on roaccutane, I couldn’t even remember 4 digit codes that I always use at work.

Question to doctor: 
I’m considering getting psychotherapy or cognitive test to see where my cognitive deficits are. Which one would you recommend?

Jacquie

unread,
May 3, 2015, 9:36:24 AM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Heinstar,

I too read you have a bunch of limiting believes. And you could change your situation by changing your mindset.

Your emails appear to me you are intelligent. You summerized your issues in a clear logical list and you proposed ways to fix it in a clear logical fashion.  "If you said it, you've got it! "  You said you're not intelligent, but the fact you could say it logically is intelligent! 

Instead of psychotherapy have you looked into NLP? Actually, don't look into it, because there are a lot of sceptics out there about nlp, just find a nlp practitioner/life coach or go to an NLP workshop. NLP can eliminate limiting believes in minutes and get you motivated in hours. I recently became a vegetarian after walking out of my first day of nlp training, something I wanted to do for years but failed to do it. On the 8th day of nlp training, I quit dessert and anything sweet, again something I wanted to do for 3 years after I was diagnosed with diabetes. 

You don't need medication, or sitting in an psychologist's chair talking about your past. You can be anything you want to be because your future hasn't been written yet. Set up a goal, and incremental steps to reach that goal. An nlp life coach could help you with that. 

Pick one thing today, just one thing, something you didn't or thought you couldn't do before, and do it everyday for 7 days, and don't mention it to anyone, keep it to yourself. Pick up an easy one to start with, maybe reduce the number of cups of coffee you drink per day by one, if you were having 5 cups a day, have 4 cups, and do this for 7 days in a row without telling anyone. If one day you couldn't do it, start counting day 1 again when you think you are ready to start again. Bit by bit, you'll see what you can achieve by yourself without external help. 

Jac 


On 3 May 2015, at 17:51, ben <check...@live.de> wrote:

You have a bunch of self-limiting beliefs.
1. QUIT TV, you probably watch a ton
2. STOP FAPPING
3. GO WORKOUT
4. WORK ON YOUR FUCKING NUTRITION GO VEGAN
5. START TO TRAIN 5x/WEEK DNB/TNB/QNB
6. USE TDCS
7. READ BOOKS
8. USE CES
9. YOUR PROBLEMS WON'T BE SOLVED THROUGH MEDICALS

BEFORE YOU'VE WORKED OUT EVERYTHING I'VE LISTED HERE, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN GO TO DOCTOR.
TILL NOW IT WAS OK, NOW YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR AWARENESS AND CAN'T DODGE IT ANYMORE. IF YOU STILL DODGE MY POST, IT'S YOUR FAULT FROM NOW ON.

NOW GET FUCKING MAD AT YOUR LIFE. YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING GODDAMIT.

--

Neitherlands

unread,
May 3, 2015, 7:08:47 PM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
What you think are your problems aren't your real problems and that's why you're getting what you consider unhelpful emotional support. Your perceptual models are shit. If you can't accept that the worldview you've formed isn't an accurate model don't ask for advice as you're wasting everyone's time.

Sergei

unread,
May 3, 2015, 8:19:09 PM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com

I assume you live in the USA. I’m not from there, but I (like many others, I suppose) view this country as a country of great opportunities. Where all people having just a little determination and who are not occupy-wall-street-type whiners can get a decent job. IQ=105 is not bad, come on! Taking brain stimulators in your case looks crazy to me.

Also my personal experience shows that hard workout can be bad for intelligence. I used to go to gym where I did treadmill running and weight-lifting, and noticed n-back performance drop during the next 24-36 hours after gym. Had to lower weights and train less often.

jotaro

unread,
May 3, 2015, 8:19:23 PM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
dude gets owned badly, heavily raided, seriously dude
the advice period should be over, now the time to think for yourself.

and "limiting beliefs" is such a nonsense.
i changed my world view some times, and my real world results didnt change
only my understanding of it did.

eh, also " you can be whatever you want" is a lie.
lol you formed alot of automatic impulses by now, would be impossible to get rid of them, its already wired, you need to find a way to work around crappy patterns, not try to eliminate them. cause truth the crappy patterns are in your brain all the NLP in the world aint gonna change your brain structure,
if nlp could do that, you would be able to forget the meaning of the world hello, make believe that hello means something else, this doesnt work that way.

only a young child is empty.

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 2:08 AM, Neitherlands <jeste...@gmail.com> wrote:
What you think are your problems aren't your real problems and that's why you're getting what you consider unhelpful emotional support. Your perceptual modules are shit. If you can't accept that the worldview you've formed isn't an accurate module don't ask for advice as you're wasting everyone's time.

--

jotaro

unread,
May 3, 2015, 8:23:50 PM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also even if you do know what to do but limited by curcumstances that dont allow you to do it, then u will be stuck.

HINT -> financial.

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 3:19 AM, Sergei <sap...@gmail.com> wrote:

I assume you live in the USA. I’m not from there, but I (like many others, I suppose) view this country as a country of great opportunities. Where all people having just a little determination and who a not occupy-wall-street-type whiners can get a decent job. IQ=105 is not bad, come on! Taking brain stimulators in your case looks crazy to me.

Also my personal experience shows that hard workout can be bad for intelligence. I used to go to gym where I did treadmill running and weight-lifting, and noticed n-back performance drop during the next 24-36 hours after gym. Had to lower weights and train less often.

--

Brandon Woodson

unread,
May 3, 2015, 9:14:09 PM5/3/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
"lol you formed alot of automatic impulses by now, would be impossible to get rid of them, its already wired, you need to find a way to work around crappy patterns, not try to eliminate them. cause truth the crappy patterns are in your brain all the NLP in the world aint gonna change your brain structure,
if nlp could do that, you would be able to forget the meaning of the world hello, make believe that hello means something else, this doesnt work that way.

only a young child is empty."

You know, I once heard it put, "If you think you have a bad memory, then just try really hard to forget something."

I relate that advice to say: yes, it's a challenge to forget by considering that you will forget. The mind works affirmatively. You can, however, re-train associations.

To demonstrate, suppose every time you heard the word "hello", you were subjected to extremely painful electrical shock. You would very quickly forget its significance as a customary greeting and begin to associate it with intolerable, excruciating pain. You would, as an unthinking consequence of reinforcing the hello-pain association, forget the hello-greeting one.

The key isn't to try to forget; it's to try to elicit a different response (if we absolutely insist there must be an ungoverned automatic response at all).


--Brandon
Message has been deleted

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 6:44:22 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
yes brandon but ,

this involves not changing an association u have but introducing a new one, that will be triggered, once the shock is removed eventually u will go back to the old patterns, but iwll leave a great truama , if we try your aproach here

after the electrical shock hello is over, try to do hello, with a something positive, the thing is the expectation of the electricity will never go away even after its long over. thus you will have 2 associations triggered at the same time once
the shock is over
hello->electrical shock
hello->greeting
first will be ore dominating and by introducing something positive
u will have a third memory,
u will get confused what to expect lol. aka clarify what is unique to each.
but you you introduced here isnt nlp, and the electrical shock even after long
stopped the expectation and worry will remain forever.

--

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 6:46:51 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
so the memery of the hello will remain but during the shock it wont be dominating and wouldnt be triggered.

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 6:51:39 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
hi ben why dont you try NLP and eliminate your believes and become
a super star, try to go on naked in the mall using NLP, could u do that
could you eliminate all the limiting believe in the way?
or if you afraid of bugs why dont u use nlp and start petting the really gross ones.
lets see how that goes.

imho maybe eliminate the limting belief that cars are dangerous.
so you will be gain freedom to do whatever you want on the road,its limiting to just cross over that road. lol.
if nlp could change brain structures your nlp practioners will be pimps and super heroes long ago. yet they stay in that domain to get money because outside of that they are shit. meaning they cant use nlp to get stuff done outside of their teaching.

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 7:24:54 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
thus i will get to the main point
 heinstar ,
if you want to be truly independent in our modern world,
its basically comes down to:

move out to live on your own , pay your bills on your own, do your dailly duty on your own.

when you seek advice on the interent you are being dependent that is contradictory to your stated aim,so you already shoot your self in the foot.
being independent meaning lacking help or ignoring help from others.

Jac

unread,
May 4, 2015, 9:41:59 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi Heinstar,

I feel deeply for you, not from a peer's standpoint but from a parent's. Being a parent, we always *try* to do the best we could for our children but so often we do or say things that damage our children for their whole life. 

Seeing you in your current state, your parents could be blooding inside but they probably don’t know what they could do to help you or they have said even more things to drive you away. What your parents have said to you has been said, they can't take it back. It has had a negative impact on you and you have been carrying it with you all these years. While they could start doing positive things to you from now on but you know what, it's within *your* power to keep on carrying it, accepting it, or shake it off for good.  

I have a 20 year-old daughter and recent years I have come to realized the negative impact I had made on her without me aware of what I was doing. She’s, like any other teenager, got her issues in a parent’s eye, and for myself, I have my issues and am full of a parent’s guilt. But I didn’t know how I could break it through. Long story short, I realized her issues must be solved by herself and mine by myself. I can’t solve her issues for her and she can’t solve mine for me.

I once Wikipedia'ed NLP, analysed it and dismissed it because I have a science background, I’m factual, logical, and I’m an atheist. But I decided to review it. I picked up a CD from the library by Joseph O'Connor and Ian McDermott and listened to it in the car. Their sincere voice got me and the content of the CD pointed me to a clear direction. I convinced my daughter to come with me and paid $$$ for both of us to sit in an 8-day course. And starting from the first day sitting in there until the 8th day, it changed me on quite a few fronts, and the best of all, it changed our relationship by having changed my mindset when speaking to her. 

I’m not here to tell you my story or how good NLP is, but I wanted to say, your issue might have a deep root in your upbringing and your family but the actual power of transforming your life despite of all that influence from your family is within *you* your very self. 

You must be in Australia as you mentioned Centrelink. Your first post mentioned you were born in Sydney. If you are still living in Sydney, there is a workshop coming on 26 May in Manly Vale, north part of Sydney, 2 hours every Tuesday night for 4 weeks. http://www.integralevents.com.au/events The event is called “No Limits” - I know, the name may irritate you as it used to me - hold that thought, just give it a go, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Convince your mum to sit in with you as she’ll already be there because she has to drive you there. You need to do your part of the work and she needs to do her part. The event will be conducted by a lady called Monica. I just went to her workshop yesterday from a random googleing and she's sincere and wise and in particular she's a mother of a 20+ yo son and a daughter. She would know the issues young people and parents are facing. She said there will be young adults in that workshop. I didn't know her before yesterday so there is not advertising for her here. I just thought she would be good fit for you and my daughter.

There is another 2-day event coming up in two weeks’ time on 16 May also in Sydney and it's along the line of self-help and eliminating limiting beliefs. http://www.lifeforceevents.com/pk/Workshop_Registration.html 

Tony Robbins is coming to Sydney this Sept. http://unleashthepowerwithin.net.au/?kw=Anthony%20Robbins&gclid=CKj84JCHp8UCFdgmvQodXywAQg    Although I heard people say going to his event doesn't do the real thing, I also met a person who told me how sitting in his event has changed this person's life for the better.

NLP or any self-help is not magic, it only works when you want it to work. And from reading what you have tried, you do have that leverage right now.

I agree to "What you think are your issues aren't your real issues" (Note, I changed the word “problem” to the word “issue” because problem is a negative word and I don’t want any negative word in my language). Your IQ is perfect, probably higher than mine. You seem to be in an un-resourceful state but clearly you are a resourceful person because you researched, posted in multiple forums and clearly laid down your options and tried them one by one and you have a plan. You said you have low motivation but you are *highly* motivated right now to make a change in your life. 

You have many negative thoughts. Each thought is a belief that's limiting you. You could read the Seven-Day Mental Diet to stop them affecting your life. http://bridgethegaptoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/The-Seven-day-Mental-Diet-ebook.pdf  or http://www.jacquelinegarwood.com/uploads/7daymentaldietgiftebook.0912.pdf . The first one is the original one and it's very short, just a few pages.

You may have a desired state you wanted to be and you are not getting there *yet*, maybe because you are letting your past and other people, particularly your parents, define who you are today and who you will be tomorrow and you're fulfilling their prophecy. Only you can define who you are at this second and the next. If you want your next second to be different from this second, it's completely up to you to choose to do something different. And you are doing it! Looked at all the things you’ve done! 

Maybe you can't be anyone you wanted to be but you certainly can be in any *state of mind* you choose to be, and that state of mind will change how you react to the environment around you and the environment will then follow *you*. Your state of mind may even change the wires inside your brain. Being an engineer with an objective mind I was shocked when I read that research shows mindfulness meditation can physically change the wire of the brain. 

How about playing this movie in your mind?

You are Tarzan swinging in the jungle. You grab a vine, swing forward, towards your destination, then you grab another and *let go* this one, then grab the next and let go that one...

The key here is: Define your destination. Let go your past. 

What happens if you don't let go, you get stuck between two vines and you go nowhere. 

This is what I’d suggest you to do to the best of my knowledge:

1. Do your 7-day mental diet to handle negative thoughts.
2. Every time a negative thought comes up, you immediately replace it by playing the Tarzan movie or play that movie when you are walking, eating, talking. (Or something similar positive you’ve come up with.)
3. Drop "stupid" etc negative words from your vocabulary. Never say those words ever again. They put you down every time you repeat it. Eliminate them.
3. Heavy Work will increase your arousal level and attention level. Maybe do it instead of drinking coffee. I was told by an Occupational Therapist that heavy work has the immediate effect of 4 hours. Maybe long term doing it have long lasting effect. (Heavy work refers to tasks that involve heavy resistance for the muscles and joints. I was told by an OT that the key is to give the joints a workout, most people go to the gym to work out the muscles and heart. Running with ankle weight is one heavy work. I think rock climbing is a good heavy work. )
4. Make incremental changes.  You’re already doing it when you tried those supplement. Keep it up. Write your goal down on a secret notebook. Check it on daily basis. Do you walk holding your head up looking up or do you walk looking down at the ground? That could be a goal for today - Hold your head up high. Your physiology is you, your thought is you. Change them to be a positive one.

You're a resourceful person only you are in an un-resourceful state. You can change that state with your mind and it will physically modify your brain (I’m sure you can find a research that backs this up, or just believe in it, because believing in it will benefit you). You are the placebo.  You are what you think. Setup a positive prophecy and fulfil it.
 




Jac

unread,
May 4, 2015, 10:01:54 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
A limiting belief is one that limits you in doing something, very often it's a judgement about yourself or someone else. It's belief doesn't server you in achieving anything. eg. "I'm not good enough." "I'm not worthy." "I'm stupid." "My partner's always lazy." 

"Driving a car is dangerous" is not a limiting belief when it serves you play caution when you drive. It is a limiting belief when you decide you will never ever drive a car.

If you have limiting believes, you want to bust them, don't you?

ben

unread,
May 4, 2015, 10:20:07 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
No, because it's obv. all BS.

ben

unread,
May 4, 2015, 10:32:00 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Jokyboy since it's pretty much all BS.
What makes People rape others?
What makes People take drugs?
What makes People be unsuccesful in life?
Why are alot of People fat?
Why's not everyone good looking and smart?
How come not everyone practices DNB e.t.c. since it's all proven to make you way smarter?

Please enlighten me, obv. you can answer People are lazy, unmotivated, totally satisfied with their life, not awake. Not knowing what to do.
Programmed by Society.
Ah programmed by society,tv, their peers, parents e.t.c.
Interesting so if they're all programmed they have a big set of beliefs, which do not serve them.
That basically means they have alot of unconscious beliefs, which make them do what they do in their life.
So you can stick with them or you can remove those destructive beliefs. You can call them limiting beliefs aswell.
So removing a limiting belief, which is basically just an emotional attachment to a certain thought/behaviour, you can change your whole life in lightening light speed.
So you change your emotional repsonse to anything and you change your life.
But it's good that People talk about a subject they have no clue. Before you write down your unconscious belief about NLP or any other practice please educate yourself about it, before trying to make people believe they have no clue what they're talking about.

There we go you're trying to change our belief, basically to you it's a limiting belief.

If it sounds harsh and bad to you it's not, it's just your association to it.
I wrote it change your limiting belief about that subject and hopefully make you do actual research about a topic, before writing out your unconscious belief about something for which you don't even have logical reasons for.

Have a nice day. All in all we're all just a big Family right? :P

Brandon Woodson

unread,
May 4, 2015, 10:51:45 AM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
jotaro,

It's not as confusing as it sounds. Sure, you could consciously dig up the old associated stimulus, helping to re-train the old encompassing association if you so chose. (In fact, worrying about the old association would have little functional difference from deliberately acting with the clear goal of re-training the old association)

The two sets of associated stimuli would not likely be competing; the dominant stimuli set would simply prevail. You and everyone else is constantly in the process of forgetting associations (through disuse, but not through thinking about disuse or thinking about forgetting) and forming new associations with previously associated stimuli. This happens all of the time; you often don't notice because you simply weren't thinking about it. :)

Look back at a time when you realized that something that previously seemed so horrible wasn't so bad. People often have such keen and memorable experiences with food; one day you suddenly like a food which for some time you had unequivocally disliked. The food didn't change, only considerations about the food shifted. Were you so ambivalent in those instances that it caused confusion? Was your mind such a maelstrom of conflicting "likes this food, but also strongly dislikes this food" perceptions that you were not able to go on? Probably not.

Worrying about something is merely mental instruction for its actualization; worrying about worrying about something is sometimes just inefficient mental instruction for its actualization. (Within capability, of course)


--Brandon

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 4:42:47 PM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Brandon we dont disagree at all , i am just saying those additional associations do not replace old ones, old ones can get weaker by inactivation.

but i was talking about changing it , not about disuse, in fact when i said
to "find ways to work around crappy patterns"i had disuse in mind.



just that old impulses dont get deleted and if they get repeated consistently, by your daily life you have no chance of getting ride of it, disuse is your only option, but then means changing your life somewhat.


by my main  assumptions about crappy impulses that you it use each and every day, for a serious chunk of time, it will require different approach.
no need to care about impulses you use once in a while.


referring back to the electric shock, and hello

well if the electrical shock is out of the way, what do you think will happen?

surely he will know the meaning of word hello, but he wont help and remember sometimes and may get anxious because the memory of the shock was remembered when he heard hello also at the same time realizing the greeting part of it. also i assume that the electrical shock was outside of his power, and he wasnt aware what cause it, because without those assumptions he wont do the hello->electrical shot association at all.
so how will he go about disuse of this memory,?

ahh i wont be answering the above posts, just too much to read lol.



jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 4:48:37 PM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
what i mean what if he says hello to people and half of the time he gets shocked by no visible means, it just happens.

then what ? each time he hears hello he runs for the hills to not hear it?
what if this period is over? he will then remember the shock when people say hello to him.
will he not? surely he will realize its a greeting.

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 5:08:27 PM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also as far as limiting beliefs go,

i was bullied at school, i didnt see those guys for ten years
, but when i see people who are associated with them
i saw one a few weeks ago, damn my legs started to shake badly, and i wasnt thinking of anything only stress and legs shaking apeared, you guys realize that
verbal understanding of some facts, and automatic non verbal patterns are not the same thing?
surely i know the guys who were associated with them back then arent dangerous they never bullied me, but once i saw this, i was shaking , he was walking a few meters away from me.
i didnt even think about danger when i saw him, just stress response got associated with him.
knowing and understanding he isnt dangerous doesnt remove my automatic response i have towards him. that is painful. luckily its the first time i see this guy in years.

ben

unread,
May 4, 2015, 6:04:42 PM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
That's a bad neuro association you can Change in 5-60 min.
Get into a relaxed state of mind.
Think about that guy.
Look at the Situation/laugh about it/ make him look funny/ rehearse that Situation over and over again until your pattern is broken and you can't get into it anymore.

Test it out by thinking about the Situation again.
Condition it over and over again until it's gone.

But the fastest way to remove any neg. associations/thoughts whatever is through meditatoin.

Verbal understanding and nonverbal understanding are 2 different shoes.
You Need to Change your emotions associated with the Person.
It's cool when you can rationalize it, you Need to cange your associated emotion to it.
Emotions are one of the most important things human beings have to work on.

jotaro

unread,
May 4, 2015, 7:01:40 PM5/4/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
imho isnt testable , cant meet him up, also when i think back i  dont experience any stress.
AT ALL. even without doing all the CLOWN tricks.

when i think back i dont feel stress of anything but in real time i still do.
lol.

as a matter of fact i can do stuff in my imagination that i wont be able to pull outside of it, either some impulse stop me or its just practically impossible.


On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:04 AM, ben <check...@live.de> wrote:
That's a bad neuro association you can Change in 5-60 min.
Get into a relaxed state of mind.
Think about that guy.
Look at the Situation/laugh about it/ make him look funny/ rehearse that Situation over and over again until your pattern is broken and you can't get into it anymore.

Test it out by thinking about the Situation again.
Condition it over and over again until it's gone.

But the fastest way to remove any neg. associations/thoughts whatever is through meditatoin.

Heinstar

unread,
May 11, 2015, 3:14:09 AM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Just an update with how I'm going so far.

I don't get why people keep telling me  "You sound intelligent". If I didn't have a problem with my cognition, I wouldn't be asking for help in the first place. I have zero real-life friends and no desire to make any or socialise. I'm having trouble learning to drive, getting a low-end job and moving out at the age of 25. How does that not sound like I have a serious cognitive issue?

Two days ago, I took 750mg of New Star Nootropics Aniracetam an hour after after Bulletproof Coffee(fat source) and it finally worked. I felt anxiolytic, hyperfocused and my overall cognition worked significantly better. For the first time in years, I finally felt like I had enough cognitive capacity to start learning to drive, get a job and move out on my own. Before using nootropics, I couldn't imagine myself working at a low-end job like at SubWay, 7-Eleven or McDoanlds. But after taking Aniracetam, I felt like there was enough cognitive capacity in me to achieve those goals. Aniracetam has also greatly reduced my self-destructive behavior and anxiety as well which was caused by a limited time constraint to find a second job by Centrelink. If I had taken Aniracetam from the begining, I probably wouldn't have overdosed on Nicotine or Selenium and damaged my health.

The only caveat with 'racetams is that they don't actually repair your cognitive deficit; they just put your brain into over-drive. I'm more interested in substances that actually restore cognitive function (i.e. from roaccutane damage) and upregulate/normalize my dopamine d2 receptors. So I'm going to try Jarrow 250mg Uridine + Dr. Tobias Omega-3 (800EPA/600DHA) +  Jarrow B-Right/Swanson Activated B-Complex + Jarrow Alpha GPC 300mg to see how it affects me. If Uridine can regain my cognition back again, then I won't need to rely on 'racetams to help me function as an adult. But if Uridine doesn't work, then I'm going to have to fall back on relying on 'racetams again.

I'm not very hopeful with doctors helping my cognitive deficit issues since I figured at best, they're probably just going to prescribe SSRI/SNRI or tell me to get a therapy. But since Aniracetam is helping me so much with my cognitive function. I might even be able to be more assertive to my doctor and convince him take me seriously in a quest to fix my cognitive function (e.g. get MRI scan of my brain, take cognitive assessment test, discuss what medications/nootropics I should try). I'm still going on get a therapy, but I think trying to fix my cognitive function is a higher priority.

As I'm writing this, I'm still constantly getting pressured to find a second full-time job by Centrelink. Basically, if I work 55+ hrs a fortnight, Centrelink won't bother me since I'm not getting any income support from them. But if I don't meet 55+ hr a fortnight, I get a small income support from them fortnightly and I must also attend an appointment with them every 2 weeks with a proof that I've applied to 30 jobs on paper and get told by them face-to-face that I really need to start working at a second job asap which is what's happening with me right now. And yes, if I get off income support from Centrelink, they'll stop bothering me. But my mom won't allow me to get off Centrelink since then, I won't be getting income to support my living under her roof. 

ben

unread,
May 11, 2015, 8:31:43 AM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Do you read at all what we write?

Did you change your nutrition at all?

Do you work out?

What is your mental diet? Do you read positive uplifting books/listen to tapes/have positive self-talk?

Do you even workout your brain? I read at bulletproof you have an emwave2 but don't see sense in training.
Do you do dualnback at all? Do you meditate? take a look at hemi-sync.com They have stuff for basically everything from meditating to peak Performance.

Don't see it too harsh, but you're whining how aweful it is and you try to get help through medics. Those stuff won't help you if you can't identify the cause. Nootropics e.t.c. are cool if you're already on top mentally to push you even further, but before that you shouldn't even take them, because it's fking cheating. You cheat yourself to high perfromance through drugs. You may not like the price you have to pay for using them.

Working a 55h/week is, so i don't have another word for it, stupidiest thing you can do. It will distract you even further from your problems and you will not work on any cause at all. Moving out working a 55h/week job, seriously you should ask yourself how much time you have at all doing that.
You need everyday time for self-development and getting into drugs is what society programmed humanity to do. But it's def. the wrong thing to do.

Take a look at your health/mental diet/workout mentally and physically.

Do that for 30-60 days the reevaluate and see if you changed.
Don't try to look for help taking drugs. It won't help you and fuck you even more up in the end.

You seem to look for the quick fix to success, mental health, being a life Superstar. There's no quickfix. If oyu see 25 year old "Superstars" they worked their ass off for years before they could attain that Level of success they have. When you see 22 year olds being a NFL Pro, they worked their ass off for 8 years+ to attain that Level they're at.
So work your ass off and start to reap the rewards, won't take too Long. Maybe 3-6 month and you start to see massive changes.


Am Montag, 11. Mai 2015 09:14:09 UTC+2 schrieb Heinstar:
Just an update with how I'm going so far.

I don't get why people keep telling me  "You sound intelligent". If I didn't have a problem with my cognition, I wouldn't be asking for help in the first place. I have zero real-life friends and no desire to make any or socialise. I'm having trouble learning to drive, finding a low-end job and moving out at the age of 25. How does that not sound like I have a serious cognitive issue?

Two days ago, I took 750mg of New Star Nootropics Aniracetam an hour after after Bulletproof Coffee(fat source) and it finally worked. I felt anxiolytic, hyperfocused and my overall cognition worked significantly better. For the first time in years, I finally felt like I had enough cognitive capacity to start learning to drive, find a job and move out on my own. Before using nootropics, I couldn't imagine myself working at a low-end job like at SubWay, 7-Eleven or McDoanlds. But after taking Aniracetam, I felt like there was enough cognitive capacity in me to achieve those goals.

The only caveat with 'racetams is that they don't actually repair your cognitive deficit; they just put your brain into over-drive. I'm more interested in substances that actually restore cognitive function (i.e. from roaccutane damage) and upregulate/normalize my dopamine d2 receptors. So I'm going to try Jarrow 250mg Uridine + Dr. Tobias Omega-3 (800EPA/600DHA) +  Jarrow B-Right/Swanson Activated B-Complex + Jarrow Alpha GPC 300mg to see how it affects me. If Uridine can regain my cognition back again, then I won't need to rely on 'racetams to help me function as an adult. But if Uridine doesn't work, then I'm going to have to fall back on relying on 'racetams again.

I didn't have much hope with doctors helping my cognitive deficit issues since I figured at best, they're probably just going to prescribe SSRI/SNRI or tell me to get a therapy. But since Aniracetam is helping me so much with my cognitive function. I might even be able to be more assertive to my doctor and convince him take me seriously in a quest to fix my cognitive function (e.g. get MRI scan of my brain, take cognitive assessment test, discuss what medications/nootropics I should try). I'm still going on get a therapy, but I think trying to fix my cognitive function is a higher priority.

Someone has also mentioned having my testosterone levels checked. I don't know how much a low testosterone can impact one's cognition, but I'll have it checked just in case.

As I'm writing this, I'm still constantly getting pressured to find a second full-time job by Centrelink. Basically, if I work 55+ hrs a fortnight, Centrelink won't bother me since I'm not getting any income support from them. But if I don't meet 55+ hr a fortnight, I get a small income support from them and I must also attend an appointment with them every 2 weeks with a proof that I've applied to 30 jobs on paper and get told by them face-to-face that I really need to start working at a second job asap which is what's happening with me right now.

On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 12:25:47 PM UTC+10, Heinstar wrote:
I never realised how stupid I was until my younger brother started accomplishing things that I wasn't able to at my age as he got older. I’m almost 25 and yet I still live with my mom, I haven’t got my license yet because I never feel like I’m mentally ready to start learning driving and I couldn’t handle community college or university because I lacked the motivation, persistence and mental energy to study. With the way I’m living right now, there’s a good chance that I’m going to stay dependent on my mother until I'm 40 or older. 
 
On the other hand, my younger brother is four years younger than me and his almost about to graduate from university and already has a license to drive anywhere he wants. So as you would've guessed, I constantly get compared to my younger brother by my parents and my co-workers and I get weird looks and seen as the “odd” sibling as if there's something is wrong with me. I'm aware that it’s quite common for siblings to differ in intelligence. But in our case, it’s not just a slight difference, but it’s a huge difference. And not only is there a huge difference, but I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum since I'm unable to take care of myself, thus I get treated like crap because of it. I don’t blame them though, because I can’t believe how stupid and dependent I am myself. I still remember what my dad told my younger brother several years ago when he thought I was sleeping, he said “don’t become like your brother, okay son?” which upset me inside as if I chose to turn out this way.
 
I don’t know why I’ve turned out this stupid with so many physical and mental health problems, it’s probably just a unlucky genetic make up but it could be...
- toxic chemicals I was exposed to growing up or in the womb
- being deficient in iodine and omega-3 while in the womb which is said to dramatically reduce IQ in children when they're born
- my mom had told me that she stayed in Japan at her parents house surrounded by her friends and relatives and didn't have to work and ate lots of fish and vegetables cooked by her parents every day while she was pregnant with my younger brother. With me, she said she stayed in Sydney in a crappy small apartment away from social support in Japan and she said she was constantly stressed out due to being tight with money because of my dad's crappy job. So her main staple in her diet was meat and carbs and barely any seafoods or veggies. She was also apparantly smoking until she realised that she was pregnant with me. But she had already quit smoking for good by the time she was preggo with my younger brother
- bunch of medications I was given when I was hospitalized twice for my asthma attack when I was 10 years old
- hitting my head on the ground and fracturing my collarbone during soccer when I was 15 years old
- being prescribed 200mg minocycline for 6 months for my acne when I was 19 (before I've developed gut issues)
- abusing caffeine when it stopped working when I was starting falling behind in community college (caffeine is said to inhibit hippocampal dependent learning)
- gut issues I've developed when I turned 21 (ironically 2 years after minocycline)
- having been under general anaesthesia twice when I was 21 for rectal surgery and colonoscopy
- severe side effects from five days on roaccutane and some mental side effects still persisting even after 6 months
- possible hypothyroid
- mitochondrial dysfunction
- neurological problems(dopamine/serotonin deficiency/ADD) 
- other reasons that I'm not aware of
 
Whatever the reason, since I’m in this situation, I need to figure out how to get out of it. Otherwise, I’m going to become a 40 year old man who still lives with his single mom(my parents got divorced after my dad came out of the closet when I was 15). At the very least, I need to be able to live on my own and find my own job because my mom is fed up with taking care of me and she constantly threatens to kick me out of her house because I'm not contributing to anything. 
 
What probably has worsened my cognition further is that I’ve developed Rectal prolapse, IBS-C, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon, Slow-colonic transit, Fecal impaction, Gastritis and Acid reflux/GERD when I turned 21 in 2012. I believe I’ve developed these conditions because I was unable to cope with the stress in my life which ironically was caused by my lack of intelligence to overcome the stressor. Long story short, my rectal prolapse have been repaired through surgery and my IBS-C had got better over the years. But unfortunately, most of my other gut issues like Slow-colonic transit, Elongated/Redundant, floppy, thin colon and Acid reflux/GERD are chronic conditions which cannot be fixed and my overall gut health has never been the same since and it will probably be never the same. 
 
Besides the health issues that I’ve mentioned, I’ve wondered if I have other undiagnosed health problems that could be affecting my cognition. So I’ve started researching common diseases that affects people's cognition. These are the tests I've had done so far:

 

Alhoutgh my Free T4 and TSH levels were within range, I’ve heard that you can still have thyroid issues even if it’s in the 'range' because the 'range' is mostly used by people who are already hypo/hyperthyroid, so my thyroid levels may not be in the optimal range for my own body. But how am I supposed to prove to my doctor that I have thyroid issues if my thyroids are in range? The reason why I suspected that I had thyroid issue was because my right hand has become chronically dry since my 20’s, but this could just be from eczema though. 
 
I've also developed Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome in my 20’s so now I can’t fall asleep until 3 - 5 am and can't wake up naturally until 11am - 1pm. I’ve managed to fix my sleep pattern a few times but it always goes back to the same, delayed sleep pattern over time so I’ve given up on trying to fix my sleep and I work my life around it.
 
I hate to say it but I'm heavily dependent on caffeine to function daily. Drinking coffee seems to help me deal with the stress, anxiety, depression and lack of mental energy. I’ve tried quitting coffee so many times, but I always find myself becoming depressed, fatigued and slow-minded even after I overcome the 4 weeks of withdraw phase. So I eventually had to go back to drinking coffee daily to be able to function.
 
I’ve already optimised my lifestyle and diet by eating whole veggies and drinking juiced vegetables, taking fish oil, Vitamin D3 and going to the gym as often as I can. But even that doesn’t seem to be enough for me to start becoming an independent, functional adult. 
 
I've lost hope on getting help from the doctors after my horrible experience on roaccutane (which they recommended) and since whenever I desperately go seek help for my mental issues, they always say there's nothing wrong with me and just sends me home. So I feel like my only other option is to keep taking bunch of nootropics/supplements until I find what works for me. Can anyone tell me which supplements/nootropics I should take in order to become an independent, functional adult who can learn to drive a car, find his own job and live on his own? 

jotaro

unread,
May 11, 2015, 11:05:26 AM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
actually society never programmed for drugs, its a biological instict to do to distract from suffering, i know some animals do this too by consuming plants to get high.

also why not cheat? why do you even call it cheating?

i guess heinstar just dont give a crap. lololol, we can just go fuck our selves
lolol.

heinstar since when working at macdonalds is a goal?
its like you were born and said to mommy when i grow up i want to work at macdonalds.



also i lol at reading "positive books,self talk" what a waste of time.
just another form of distraction to feel better about yourself instead of drugs,
and further brain wash in the american dream baby..


On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:31 PM, ben <check...@live.de> wrote:
Do you read at all what we write?

Did you change your nutrition at all?

Do you work out?

What is your mental diet? Do you read positive uplifting books/listen to tapes/have positive self-talk?

Do you even workout your brain? I read at bulletproof you have an emwave2 but don't see sense in training.
Do you do dualnback at all? Do you meditate? take a look at hemi-sync.com They have stuff for basically everything from meditating to peak Performance.

Don't see it too harsh, but you're whining how aweful it is and you try to get help through medics. Those stuff won't help you if you can't identify the cause. Nootropics e.t.c. are cool if you're already on top mentally to push you even further, but before that you shouldn't even take them, because it's fking cheating. You cheat yourself to high perfromance through drugs. You may not like the price you have to pay for using them.

Working a 55h/week is, so i don't have another word for it, stupidiest thing you can do. It will distract you even further from your problems and you will not work on any cause at all. Moving out working a 55h/week job, seriously you should ask yourself how much time you have at all doing that.
You need everyday time for self-development and getting into drugs is what society programmed humanity to do. But it's def. the wrong thing to do.

Take a look at your health/mental diet/workout mentally and physically.

Do that for 30-60 days the reevaluate and see if you changed.
Don't try to look for help taking drugs. It won't help you and fuck you even more up in the end.

--

ben

unread,
May 11, 2015, 11:39:22 AM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Yeah rather stay in a neg. mind and not get anything done due to being your own worst enemy.
Reading positive books is to program your mind to success, be happy, be joyful, taking Action.
Success is 80% mindset, 20% technical skills.
As i said before educate yourself, before trying to make other statements ridiclious.

jotaro

unread,
May 11, 2015, 2:15:33 PM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
i still lol at you, because you just repeat what you read at some crappy self help book, i wouldnt bother to ask where you get those numbers, or what definition you have in mind, when you think about mind set.



On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:39 PM, ben <check...@live.de> wrote:
Yeah rather stay in a neg. mind and not get anything done due to being your own worst enemy.
Reading positive books is to program your mind to success, be happy, be joyful, taking Action.
Success is 80% mindset, 20% technical skills.
As i said educate yourself, before trying to make other statements ridiclious.

ben

unread,
May 11, 2015, 2:32:25 PM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
You lol at me, I lol at you. All fine isn't it? lol
But when we're on it, what's your dnb/tnb/qnb scores?

cj1...@gmail.com

unread,
May 11, 2015, 10:25:54 PM5/11/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Ben,

I totally agree with you and other people in this group pointing to a mindset issue. I think what you've written is right to the point. 
(btw, Heinster said 55h every two weeks. That is 22.5h per week, = 4.5h per day, He should still have time to work on his own mind. )



Heinstar,

For people taking their time writing a lengthy reply, I suggest you take them seriously. They are genuinely trying to help you here. Put down what they've said on your list as an option. You don't have to believe in them just yet, just keep an open mind and write them down as an option for you. If you dismiss them quickly, then it proves you do have a mindset issue. 

Research shows placebo effect works and new research shows it even works when patients know they are given a sham drug (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug) . Your mind is far more powerful than you think. 

Taking drugs may only give you short term benefit, mask your symptom, cheat you, and may have long term side effect that science hasn't discovered yet.

If there is a thing that has zero side effect, I mean absolutely zero, and has the possibility to improve your situation (research above shows it definitely will improve one's situation, but let's take a step back and say it's only possible), and it's available at any time, anywhere, and at zero cost, it makes logical sense to take it, doesn't it? But hang on, for someone doesn't see the logic behind this, he must not have a logical mind, hence he must not have a high IQ score, hence he is not intelligent. So you are right, you are that someone, you are correct in saying you have cognitive issues. And that, I have to say, is stupid. 

For some other people,
I see this as a dead serious topic, someone's life is at stake, it would be really helpful to keep your negativity and jokes outside of this.

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 5:19:37 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
dismissing other peoples claimes isnt mind set issues, every person on the planet dismiss other people's saying, simply because there is just to many conflicting stuff, obviously alot of this would be wrong. so there is no point in addressing each single one. your life would be over.7

but what strikes me is that dude asks for help, without waning to use the help, its really pointless.

if i was heinstar i would probably do the same( follow my desires and experiment) since dude wants to be independent but what i would do differently is i wont be asking for help because
i wont have any intention of using it, thus you just wastes people time.


also i would say heistar situation isnt so bad, you take it seriously way too much. you dont see him, you dont know him, you just read some of his posts,
and make a lot of assumptions,there is no way to know how is his situation based on that.

also dont agree about intellegence=100% logic, this is nonsense. intellegence isnt a skill, and logic to a big extent is. if i had phases of better logic vs phases of worst logic, while intellegence stats roughly the same then its nonsense.
 

--

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 5:23:53 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also if intellegence and logic is the same, why bother use different terms? then there is no need for a new term(intellegence)


jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 5:26:47 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also why someone on the planet should bother with stuff that they believe is false, you dont operate this way, everything you do or try you believe in something secretly that it is true, if you dont you wont bother, just how you work.

did you ever do something that you believed is nonsense?

cj1...@gmail.com

unread,
May 12, 2015, 10:15:51 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hi JokyBoy,

Dismissing other peoples claimes may not be mind set issues, not keeping an open mind is. Keeping an open mind, willing to see things from a different angle and accepting other possibilities is a growth mindset instead of a fixed mindset. There are things you know you know, things you know you don't know, and things you don't even know you don't know. Heinstar is seeking for something specific in his mind, this whole mindset thing probably came completely out of the blue for him.   

His situation is actually bad or not I'm not sure, but I'm putting myself in his shoes from his writing and I have formed a perception that it is bad and he's reaching out for help badly. If he's reading all we have posted, something must have got into his head, his unconscious mind most likely, he's just not noticing it yet at the concious level. Or maybe you have, Heinstar? 

"also why someone on the planet should bother with stuff that they believe is false" -  Because there is no right or wrong, true or false on this planet, there is only your perception of the reality and my perception of the reality. The world once was believed to be flat, and once was believed to be the centre of the universe, and for some people there is a god and for some there isn't. For Buddhists, there is not one Buddha/God, everyone can be a Buddha/God. For most people, they believe in what they are brought up with, what the society has imposed on them. Get yourself outside the box the family/culture/society has put you in, challenge your beliefs that do not server you. Believe in - that is, treat as if true, what will likely benefit you, what will likely work for you.

"everything you do or try you believe in something secretly that it is true"  - agree, but not to judge it true or not true beforehand, but to treat it as if true and see how it works for you.

It's not my intention to debate with you. This thread IS Heinstar's thread, not yours or mine. I just hope he's listening and hope some of this gets into his mind, which is to see new possibilities, and in particular, the possibility that he himself, his mind, is the best resource he can use.



On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 7:19:37 PM UTC+10, JokyBoy wrote:
dismissing other peoples claimes isnt mind set issues, ...
but what strikes me is that dude asks for help, without waning to use the help, its really pointless.
also i would say heistar situation isnt so bad,  ..
also dont agree about intellegence=100% logic,  ..
also why someone on the planet should bother with stuff that they believe is false .. 

Brain Train

unread,
May 12, 2015, 11:34:06 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
agree with CJ... appears very mature view.

--

Brain Train

unread,
May 12, 2015, 11:36:46 AM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Heinstar,
can you tell how long it takes for you to verbally (talking loud) count from 1 to 120 when you try to count as fast as possible?
brain train

Heinstar

unread,
May 12, 2015, 12:17:29 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
@JokyBoy My desire isn't to self-experiment with nootropics out of pure enjoyment. It's to fix my dysfunctioning brain mainly from roaccutane damage and pre-existing cognitive weakness and to reduce my anxiety from Centrelink who are pushing me to get a second full-time job asap. If I didn't have to rely on nootropics, I wouldn't have even touched it. About McDonalds...what was trying to say was that I feel like I'm mentally incapable of even working at McDoanlds, not that it is my dream to work there. And I know what skills are required to work at McDonalds since I used to work there when I was 15. But since my memory and general cognition is so terrible now, I don't think I'll be able to get hired there anymore. 

@ADDer - Sorry but I don't feel comfortable counting out loud to 120 in front of my family as it's embarrasing so I don't want to do it unless if it's really important.

Brain Train

unread,
May 12, 2015, 12:52:45 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
okay.
just a clarification: what i mean by loudly is that other person, as an observer, should be able to hear and make out that you have pronounced the words correctly/completely. The intent is just to make sure that you are not skipping the words in order to go faster. 
It need not be so loud that it reaches outside the room.
BT

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
@jokyboy My desire isn't to self-experiment with nootropics out of pure enjoyment. It's to fix my dysfunctioning brain mainly from roaccutane damage and pre-existing cognitive weakness and to reduce my anxiety from Centrelink who are pushing me to get a second full-time job asap. If I didn't have to rely on nootropics, I wouldn't have even touched it.  But since there's so little help with mental health from society and the medical industry in general, I have no choice but to self-medicate and try and fix my brain without any doctor's supervision. Also I’m being dead serious with my issues and I’m not exaggerxating anything. It's quite scary how little society cares for those who are going through mental health issues and I now feel even more sorry for people who are less fortunate than me and are struggling in life because of their cognitive issues.

@ADDer It’s night time right now so I can’t talk very loudly. I’ll redit this post and tell you the results tomrrow after I have my appointment with the doctor.

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 1:23:16 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
ehh but not only society doesnt care for people with mental trouble, society doesnt care for anyone as a matter of fact.

it is just a lie to make you work hard for profit that is not yours.

even if society cared, it still can do nothing.

try cereblysin,
there is a thread in longecity, it iwll involve needles to the muscles but i am sure you can handle it.
that is for damage.

as far as anxiety, then get them out of your own bone.
get distanced from those peoplle, and if it doesnt work then
find ways to avoid the conversation alltogher. simply dont be exposed to what triggers your anxiety.
imho instead of talking spend some time away from them. or just lie and make yourself busy. or negotiate whatever.

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 1:27:52 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also about centrelink? i loled at this isnt it something to do with the austeralian government? i just googled it.

lol, the fuck since when government can decide for you if you search for a second job or even a first one. in my country nobody gives a shit.

i was out of the job for a long time, didnt contact government office or anything and it stayed that way . lol.
i just could afford to live without the job.

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 1:54:12 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
about open mindedness, there is no reason to be open minded about everything
nor to dismiss everything, depending on the situation one is better then the other
furthermore, openmindedness is just mindlessly taking information in
and dismissing is just that throwing stuff without any justified reason.
the balance is when you start to test stuff, but you cant test everything because of limits and then you naturally become selective. you are a finite mind creature.

Mercel

unread,
May 12, 2015, 2:53:03 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
This isn't about cognitive deficit; but a radical deficit in character. 

ben

unread,
May 12, 2015, 3:15:52 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
For who exactly heinstar or jokyboy? Need some clarification here. Because I certainly sense some kind of cognitive deficit vibes on Jokyboy :)

ben

unread,
May 12, 2015, 4:33:20 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Anyways Heinstar really got a ton of Information in this thread. It's now his turn to take action. If he doesn't follow through, fine don't post here anymore, because it will most likely get bashed and People go at eachother.
In case you take action and follow through, we're happy to read your progress reports.
But if you don't follow through, don't post here anymore.
We don't really care about your background. We care about where you're going from now on. So take your fucking ass up and like the great american philosophist Michael Jordan said: Just do it!

Heinstar decide now if you want to actually apply dnb training e.t.c.
because if not the thread is destructive and should just be closed.

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 4:47:22 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
who do you think, of course its me who has defecit in character.

haha, should put me on the assasination list of conspiracy theorists who posses a direct threat to tony Robbins religious lunatics.


his previous comment about heinstar model of the world, is probably spot on.
he probably translates the world with a certain twist, that is somewhat dysfunctional. but arent we all suffer from those twists?

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:33 PM, ben <check...@live.de> wrote:
Anyways Heinstar really got a ton of Information in this thread. It's now his turn to take action. If he doesn't follow through, fine don't post here anymore, because it will most likely get bashed and People go at eachother.
In case you take action and follow through, we're happy to read your progress reports.
But if you don't follow through, don't post here anymore.
We don't really care about your background. We care about where you're going from now on. So take your fucking ass up and like the great american philosophist Michael Jordan said: Just do it!

Heinstar decide now if you want to actually apply dnb training e.t.c.
Because if not the thread should just be closed and is destructive.

Am Dienstag, 12. Mai 2015 21:15:52 UTC+2 schrieb ben:
For who exactly heinstar or jokyboy? Need some clarification here. Because I certainly sense some kind of cognitive deficit vibes on Jokyboy :)

Am Dienstag, 12. Mai 2015 20:53:03 UTC+2 schrieb Mercel:
This isn't about cognitive deficit; but a radical deficit in character. 

--

jotaro

unread,
May 12, 2015, 4:50:01 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
u dudes just mad because i bash self help.


and since u are firm believers of this school thought, then you hit upon a threat to your religion. this is of course unacceptable, how can this lunatic dare to not understand the american dream?

ben

unread,
May 12, 2015, 5:06:43 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Wait a sec. I have other Gurus aswell, like Brian Tracy, Les Brown, ton of books e.t.c.
But then again this stuff gives you a firm life manual about how to operate as a human being in this world.

It's def. not all of life and there's still a ton of areas you have to do research on aswell.

But anyways don't bash Anthony. We have to worship him when we wake up, during breakfast,lunch, during your snacktime, dinnertime and before you go to bed. You have to become a true worshipper of him, apply his teachings all day long 24/7!

cj1...@gmail.com

unread,
May 12, 2015, 10:56:47 PM5/12/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Heinstar,

You mentioned you have anxiety and you're prone to depression. This got me thinking about executive functions. What you are experiencing could it be an EF issue instead of an IQ issue? I searched the whole thread and two people have already suggested managing your anxiety so you can maintain your executive functions.

One aspect of EF is working memory, your stress and loneness could be impairing your prefrontal cortex and make you have the symptoms like you have an IQ issue?

The following is from http://www.devcogneuro.com/Publications/ExecutiveFunctions2013.pdf by Neuroscientist Adele Diamond. 

"EFs and prefrontal cortex are the first to suffer, and suffer disproportionately, if something is not right in your life. They suffer first, and most, if you are stressed (Arnsten 1998, Liston et al. 2009, Oaten & Cheng 2005), sad (Hirt et al. 2008, von Hecker & Meiser 2005), lonely (Baumeister et al. 2002, Cacioppo & Patrick
2008, Campbell et al. 2006, Tun et al. 2012), sleep deprived (Barnes et al. 2012, Huang et al. 2007), or not physically fit (Best 2010, Chaddock et al. 2011, Hillman et al. 2008). Any of these can cause you to appear to have a disorder of EFs, such as ADHD, when you do not. You can see the deleterious effects of stress, sadness,
loneliness, and lack of physical health or fitness at the physiological and neuroanatomical level in prefrontal cortex and at the behavioral level in worse EFs (poorer reasoning and problem solving, forgetting things, and impaired ability to exercise discipline and self-control)."

This paper and Diamond's other papers and her youtube videos are suggesting a few ways to improve EF. EF uses the prefrontal cortex part of the brain, and activities with Complex Motor Sequences use the same part of the brain. So one way I see may be easier to implement for you is to join a traditional martial arts class, like Taekwondo. By "traditional" she meant the martial art focus on self-control, discipline and character building instead of competition, by character build she meant 3 questions are asked before each Taekwondo session "Where am I?" (focus on present moment) "What am I doing?" and "What should I be doing?" (these two focus on selective behaviour and planning). 

She said researches are suggesting physical exercise alone is not enough to improve EF, but phys-ed PLUS character building (eg traditional martial arts) and phys-ed PLUS mindfulness (eg Yoga) will.

You can watch one of her videos at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wdFKPTEL2M 

You may want to fast forward to these sections to save you some time from watching the whole video:
11:17 - 12:30 (Taekwondo research and EF)
13:10 - 14:13 (Stress research and EF)
14:57 - 15:53 (Social research and EF)

Another thing I got from Diamond's video but I can't find it right now. There was a research done on testing a group of children's IQ. Then the researcher lied to the teacher about the kids tested IQ scores not as good as the other kids, instead of telling the teacher these kids IQ were lower than the others they told the teacher these kids IQ were higher than the others. After some time, the researcher went back and tested the same group of kids again and amazingly, the kids tested with lower scores the first time but were told to the teachers they were tested with higher scores performed better the second time than the kids had higher scores the first time. What I get from this is, we all live up to what we are being told. Positive judgement can lead us to perform better than our abilities and negative judgement can lead us to perform worse.

In short, taking into other people's points:

1. You must get yourself out of feeling down and low. Reduce your anxiety. Let your EF to function what it's supposed to.
   You can read self-books, do your mental diet, go to self-help workshops, or pay a life coach to guide you.
   You can meditate or join a yoga class.

2. Do physical exercises and add mental building stuff in.
   Join a Taekwondo class, it involves complex motor sequence, it exercises your prefrontal cortext hence help your EF. Maybe stop for a minute before the class and ask yourself those three questions:"Where am I?" "What am I doing?" and "What should I be doing?" Format an answer to each of them and rehearse them each time.

3. Do physical exercises like heavy work, which is known to raise arousal level and attention level.

4. Do your supplement if that's working for you.

5. Be social.
   Joining a Taekwondo class helps you meeting people in the real world. Helping younger students in the same school help your self-esteem, practice compassion, and will make you feel happy. 
   Join a meet-up group for something you loved doing when you were a little kid, or just go out there and chat.

6. Do dualNback 

The key is: repetitive practice.

I'm interested to know how you go.

Heinstar

unread,
May 13, 2015, 5:59:14 AM5/13/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Thank you cj1, Jac, ADDer and jttot2 for giving me so much useful advise. Also I just want to clarify, I'm not looking for sympathy or for people to feel sorry for me. I just want to regain enough cognitive capacity to be able to learn to drive, get a low-end job and move out. That is all.

After seeing a doctor, I was basically told that:
  1. Even if I I'm not feeling depressed right now since I'm masking my proness to depressive mood with caffeine, I could still be depressed and that could be the cause of my cognitive issues that I describe. He believes my issues like not being able to learn to drive, get a low-end job and move out are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain and the recommendation is to treat it with SSRI and therapy.
  2. Conclusion from a medical perspective -- take SSRI(Escitalopram 10mg), therapy and do mindfulness -- I asked if SNRI is better but he said that it's usually prescribed if you have negative reaction to SSRI.
I've heard that SSRI is actually pretty safe even though it gets a bad rap so I'm going to give SSRI a go within a next few days and see how if affects my cognition before I experiment with Uridine + DHA/EPA + B-Complex + Vitamin E + Alpha GPC. Obviously, I'm not going to take any nootropics while I'm on the SSRI. The only problem I see with SSRI is that it's just bandaging the symptom and not solving the root cause. I've read on Mr Happy's thread that the next-generation of SSRI is focusing on fixing the underlining cause rather than bandaging the symptom. 

The clinical trials and studies all point to the next generation of antidepressants revolving around increasing phospholipid / membrane health / density, rather than artificially trying to balance the existing 5HT receptors with SSRIs and MAOIs.

I'm going to start therapy as well soon. It's possible that mindfulness and therapy could work. But I feel like even if they do, it would take at least 6 - 12 months to see the full effect and I need something with immediate effect since I'm getting pressured to find a second full-time job asap by Centrelink. I've got the doctor's certificate and I'm going to apply to Centrelink for my mental health issues so hopefully I won't have to look for a second job until my mind is in the right place.

@Alex - I agree that a smart person would be able to overcome their personal issues a lot easier than a less smart person.

I was curious about my IQ score after experiencing the severe side effect from roaccutane. But I could never get myself to take the IQ test because I lost motivation to do anything, even DNB after going on roaccutane. It's been 6 months so I believe I've given enough time for my brain to heal. I had a good sleep last night and I felt like my brain was at its sharpest today so I took the IQ test again after a strong cup of coffee kicked in. And to my surprise, my IQ score has gotten lower. I used to score at least 108 even on bad days and 110 on good days. But today, I only scored 105 which is the lowest I've ever scored. Before roaccutane, I feel like my thinking speed was faster. But now, it took me a much longer time to solve each questions on IQtest.dk. I'm glad I didn't take roaccutane for more than 5 days, otherwise my IQ score could have gotten even lower.

If SSRI indeed works on me, then that means that I've been wasting all this time experimenting with nootropics and that I should have went to the doctor from the first place. But the only reason why I was reluctant to see a doctor for my mental issues are:
  1. Stigma attached to mental health and not being able to overcome one's emotional issues
  2. I thought that the doctor was just going to send me off to a therapist and I'm skeptical of therapy working 
  3. Adverse side effect from roaccutane losing my trust in pharmaceutical drugs
But I've learnt that Supplements/Nootropics aren't necessary safer than pharmaceutical drugs either since it's not regulated and I've damaged my body several times as a result from my self-medication. Such as with 4mg nicotine and 200mcg Selenium. 
IQtest.dk_14-05-15.png

Alex

unread,
May 13, 2015, 6:22:06 AM5/13/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Hello Heinstar,

the big problem for most human is, that on its most the restrictive key resources (...) for having a good lifesquality are not improveable to a significant degree, because when all is said and done there is nothing one can do. But to point out some aspects,  i think you are an intelligent person with an iq up to 110, so you dont need to think that it is a cognitive deficit. Maybe if you want start to go on college an iq of 115 is scientifically needed to be successfully graduated, but you are only a few point away from this benchmark, and further more disciplin and motivation are the keyfactor which impact on your outcome and jobperformance and performance on college for example. As to my observation it is only psychological problem, because you have multiply anxietys, which causes your self esteem and how you observe yourself as not capable of doing your job and managing depression and low energy level. The problem is, that anxietys are somehow fixed by genetically and psychological factors, so it takes a lots of time and supports for example to help you driving a car without anxiety or getting panic, because i know how it feels like to have a sensitive mindset or character like yours and to feel powerless and feel like everything is wrong. I somehow believe in Freuds theory, who refers to the point that all anxiety and even character is fixed throughout the first 6 years. By the way, to have a high emotional stability. it would mean that one can manage anxiety, or he or she has simply to say lesser anxiety and manage lifesproblems at all. But i give you the advice to look upon a therapy, because in the firstplace it is an emotional level problem, which might be solved by training your selfconfindence and by psychotherapist, who helps you to  reduce anxietys at all by some degree if possible. The low energy might be an outcome of your emotional level, because you are feeling not capable. If you would feel like, you were good and all is okay, so would feel an energy boost, i guess you should clarify if there is a depression which causes low energy levels and generalised anxiety, To clearify my conclusion, i know that for example a highly gifted person might have much more easier in solving his or her lifesproblems at all. I do know that issue, that it is unfair, that some people have the highest amounts of resources and some not, and that some have to fight to achieve what one gifted person achieve with a blink of an eye.I am aware of this truth, and i am not a fan of the nlp perspectives, which says that everyone can become a genius by using image streaming or observe themselve as god like.I am only saying that these illusionary tricks are a waste of time, because i have tried a lots of techniques to overcome limits even with nlp tricks and affirmation, but nothing works, because it is, what it is, a waste of time, and a marketing strategy for them who wants to make money out of it, as i could slightly observe on my own.










jotaro

unread,
May 13, 2015, 7:20:16 PM5/13/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
excellent comment above.  through i am not sure about therapy or dicipline or dedication for that matter, because if something sucks, dedication not gonna save you.

my take is academia is dysfunctional at teaching, because i already saw something that i couldnt understand from a university book, but got it when i hit upon it on a video game.
its required me to use it, and eventually it connected.

if formal education were competent, you wouldnt need iq of 115 to succed
even guys with 80 could do it, because the design and correctness is good, and its in line how humans learn.



On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Alex <ale...@hotmail.de> wrote:
Hello Heinstar,

the big problem for most human is, that on its most the restrictive key resources (...) for having a good lifesquality are not improveable to a significant degree, because when all is said and done there is nothing one can do. But to point out some aspects,  i think you are an intelligent person with an iq up to 110, so you dont need to think that it is a cognitive deficit. Maybe if you want start to go on college an iq of 115 is scientifically needed to be successfully graduated, but you are only a few point away from this benchmark, and further more disciplin and motivation are the keyfactor which impact on your outcome and jobperformance and performance on college for example. As to my observation it is only psychological problem, because you have multiply anxietys, which causes your self esteem and how you observe yourself as not capable of doing your job and managing depression and low energy level. The problem is, that anxietys are somehow fixed by genetically and psychological factors, so it takes a lots of time and supports for example to help you driving a car without anxiety or getting panic, because i know how it feels like to have a sensitive mindset or character like yours and to feel powerless and feel like everything is wrong. I somehow believe in Freuds theory, who refers to the point that all anxiety and even character is fixed throughout the first 6 years. By the way, to have a high emotional stability. it would mean that one can manage anxiety, or he or she has simply to say lesser anxiety and manage lifesproblems at all. But i give you the advice to look upon a therapy, because in the firstplace it is an emotional level problem, which might be solved by training your selfconfindence and by psychotherapist, who helps you to  reduce anxietys at all by some degree if possible. The low energy might be an outcome of your emotional level, because you are feeling not capable. If you would feel like, you were good and all is okay, so would feel an energy boost, i guess you should clarify if there is a depression which causes low energy levels and generalised anxiety, To clearify my conclusion, i know that for example a highly gifted person might have much more easier in solving his or her lifesproblems at all. I do know that issue, that it is unfair, that some people have the highest amounts of resources and some not, and that some have to fight to achieve what one gifted person achieve with a blink of an eye.I am aware of this truth, and i am not a fan of the nlp perspectives, which says that everyone can become a genius by using image streaming or observe themselve as god like.I am only saying that these illusionary tricks are a waste of time, because i have tried a lots of techniques to overcome limits even with nlp tricks and affirmation, but nothing works, because it is, what it is, a waste of time, and a marketing strategy for them who wants to make money out of it, as i could slightly observe on my own.










Gloomy Moonie

unread,
May 15, 2015, 5:41:20 PM5/15/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 5:56:47 AM UTC+3, cj1...@gmail.com wrote:
You can watch one of her videos at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wdFKPTEL2M  

Unlurking just to say thanks, as this is probably the best reference in the entire thread.
To corroborate Adele Diamond's point, and thus mine, a personal anecdote - IQ is not a deciding factor of neither independence nor adulthood, far from it.
I'm surprised she doesn't mention the marshmallow experiment, as it is very reflective of the studies she is basing her argument on. I'd even say it's one of the pioneering studies of the psych. branch that is EF, considering that it was executed in the 60's.
When I first came across it my mind was blown, so if you haven't already familiarized yourself with it, I highly recommend you do so. Once you do it will become clear as to why and how EF and it's derivatives are fundamental to success, and perhaps also shed some light on what you should be focusing on.

Back to Diamond. Following her line of thought, i.e. that the prefrontal cortex is highly sensitive to the environmental stressors, I would conjecture that some people are more sensitive to those stressors than others, in a physiological rather than coping strategy kind of manner. It certainly doesn't mean that they are exclusive to each other, probably the opposite, which would make it that much harder to test for. In other words, one could have been growing in an environment conducive to learning and development, thus not acquiring any maladaptive coping strategies, and despite not being as bright per se, still having more success over someone with the opposite circumstances. Loneliness and social isolation, as she's also mentioned, can too be detrimental to EF.
To summarize, I'll end with this: how good is a car, be it whatever's the worst model where you live or a Ferrari, if it's always in the garage?


Some relevant links:
Adele Diamond's TED talk: https://youtu.be/6wdFKPTEL2M
On the significance of loneliness: https://youtu.be/_0hxl03JoA0
Related to stress: https://youtu.be/6wdFKPTEL2M

cj1...@gmail.com

unread,
May 17, 2015, 10:35:55 PM5/17/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com

To summarize, I'll end with this: how good is a car, be it whatever's the worst model where you live or a Ferrari, if it's always in the garage?

Another analogy for EF vs IQ: Think of IQ as a computer's CPU, think of EF as the peripheral system, which has the output system (ie printer, screen, speaker etc) and the input system (ie mouse, keyboard). No matter how fast the CPU is, if the input or output system doesn't work, nothing goes in properly or doesn't go in at all or nothing comes out properly or doesn't come out at all, the CPU will be useless, the computer will not function.  

You don't need a Ferrari to take you to your destination, any model will take you there, as long as it's functioning.
You don't need a Pentium CPU in your computer, a 80486 will get your job done just fine, as long as the peripheral system is functioning.


cj1...@gmail.com

unread,
May 17, 2015, 10:48:17 PM5/17/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Came across this Gandhi quote over the weekend:  

“Your beliefs become your thoughts, 
Your thoughts become your words, 
Your words become your actions, 
Your actions become your habits, 
Your habits become your values, 
Your values become your destiny.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

If you want to change your destiny, where is the best place to start? Beliefs.

Anthony Robbins's analogy of hitting a golf ball, where hitting the ball two milimeters on either side of dead center can cause the ball to go two hundred yards into the rough. 

A slight shift in your beliefs will make huge change in your destiny down the track.

jotaro

unread,
May 18, 2015, 6:54:09 AM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
lol. i am speechless your words dont become your actions, how many people lie? how many empty promises do you see in the world? you want to say that flaws in words, and deceptions dont exsist?


furthermore you cant change your belief because they reflect your exprience, changing believe without your experience is delusional to oneself and doesnt work its a lie. you will just tell your self crap but deep down all remains the same.
you cant convince a wheel chair guy that he will be a fucking gold medal atleat
, because really fucking cant.
like wise if you have depression , you cant talk yourself out of it.
stop thinking that talking works. itdoesnt. anthony robinns is a politician
sells empty promises for his gullible customers who are eager to pay for this.


jotaro

unread,
May 18, 2015, 6:56:29 AM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also this will lead you to the mental house, if you remain too stubborn about this practice.

jotaro

unread,
May 18, 2015, 7:29:02 AM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
also what i said about words dont become your actions, other things that are said in the passage you presented arent correct either not just the one i brought.

ben

unread,
May 18, 2015, 11:41:11 AM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Jokyboy didn't we say you have to stop posting your thoughts based on false assumptions?

jotaro

unread,
May 18, 2015, 1:56:03 PM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
ben, i have lost interest to even interact with you, from now on, i am ignoring your messages completely. :)  this is last time you hear me referring to you. so let you know.

ben

unread,
May 18, 2015, 3:43:16 PM5/18/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Why do you post several Messages in a row trying to get people to agree with you.
It's like someone crying out the loudest to get attention.
As i said before, educate yourself on diff. subjects before coming out wiht beliefs you got from whereever.

Brain Train

unread,
May 19, 2015, 11:59:23 AM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
@CJ. 
Buddha also said something very similar.
Golf ball analogy is nice showing a small error may have large effect in subsequent stages (of events, projects, etc.)

@jotaro. 
This process may be taking effect over a very long period, say, of the order of life span. it may change one's direction very gradually... but very significantly, creating huge difference at the end.

regarding your opinion on beliefs about their dependence on experience- there is one more variable and that is your analysis. you can revisit the same experience (in your memory) and more carefully analyse to draw different conclusions. we often make error while making conclusions (from experiences).
With more careful analysis you can change, modify, improve the conclusions in terms of correctness and accuracy.
i think we need to be alert during analysis about our assumptions  and ask ourselves more often if this assumption is really correct? how do i know this? or at least be aware about what is fact and what is an assumption.

jotaro

unread,
May 19, 2015, 1:45:30 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
you can make the correct assumption and still be wrong, in essence you can only use what you exprience in your analysis, thus if there are other experiences that are neccesary to draw the "right " conclusion but you werent exposed to them. you are fucked.
it isnt enough to make just conclusions, you need to exprience them in reality as well, and there is a limit to this even if u are correct.
if i make conclusions on paper, and they are correct but i dont exprience their correctness fully because of logistics or something like that, then you wont believe them even if they are true.
or atleast in practice you will not enjoy their correctness.
there is also the problem that those conclusions are not enough on their own at all. there are alot of other things at play.

and also you will be wrong alot of times this is a given no matter how good you are at this. there will be of course conclusions that are not testable becasue of limits.

ben

unread,
May 19, 2015, 2:37:13 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Allright Joky Jesus.
If you have to experience it, how come there are billions of people believing in a god, in Religion, in anything written down.
They never experienced most likely god, yet they believe in him/her, no matter what. People even kill in the name of god.

Actually whatever i won't argue anymore.

jotaro

unread,
May 19, 2015, 2:46:21 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
they exprienced all those people around them brain washing them dogmatically.
actually its not a given they believe in a god at all, they just want to be part of group, and they chose the group they felt most comfortable with, the decisions came from emotions. not from what they considered truth, or from the only group avaliable to them. consider the fact that in iran most people are muslims.
maybe its they became like this simply because most are like this and it was hammered down to them from an early age. like starting from infancy

jotaro

unread,
May 19, 2015, 2:49:07 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
some people get punished for not commiting to the patterns of the group and they surely began to do it.
some of course are hardcore, but they didnt start to believe in god in thei own they were exposed to those ideas by different people, and might been punished for not being like anyone else.
notice how young kids cry alot and parents usually force their will.
they are forced to be like their parents, and when they have a grown brain its already too late, its deep by then.

jotaro

unread,
May 19, 2015, 2:51:10 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
some people actually like it because they already have ideas that are competent with a certain system so usually its quite feel good to them.

jotaro

unread,
May 19, 2015, 2:51:26 PM5/19/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
"competible"

Brain Train

unread,
May 20, 2015, 1:32:53 AM5/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
@jotaro
it is not that i am denying the value of experience. you are emphasizing the need for experience. Hardly anyone will disagree on that!
but the difference in opinion comes when you say we are completely bound by the experience.. which means we can't go beyond our direct experiences in real life (and there is a serious limit to what we can experience first hand).

this is where we disagree.
we have small life spans.. we can't experience everything on our own. if we rely only on our direct experience alone we will severely limit ourselves!
it is smarter to learn from others, others experiences.
as a science student we rely on so many facts which we haven't checked ourselves...

when it comes to something which appears suspicious, we need to critically analyze, relate to what we have already experienced in life.
for example, this chain of thoughts, action, habit, destiny... even if you don't see truthful.. you can see for yourself whether a relation exists in consecutive steps/outcomes.
someone doesn't need to reach 90 years of age to conclude whether it is true or not, if he/she can analytically see it.

regarding sufficiency of conclusions.. if you can apply them in your decision making, particularly for important decisions.. that is good enough to reap significant benefit (from conclusions), for you wouldn't be making wrong choices!



Heinstar

unread,
May 20, 2015, 2:36:33 AM5/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I'm going to leave my SSRI experience here:

Day 1 
I had my first 10mg Escitalpram today (5mg twice a day) and I was kind of dissapointed. All I felt was a slight buzz in my forehead similar to Piracetam and not much else. I was expecting an increase in my mood, motivation, feeling of wellbeing, alertness, and mental energy. But I got none of that. With the way SSRI is making me feel right now, I highly doubt it's going to help me start learning to drive, get a low-end job and move out. But it's too early to tell.

The SSRI seems to have helped me reduce my dependence on Coffee though. After taking the SSRI this morning, I still had the cravings for Coffee today but it was easier for me to abstain from it then before so I decided to just cut it out cold-turkey. But I did start suffering from caffeine withdrawl so I had low mental energy and felt sleepy all day. I've tried going off caffeine for over 4 weeks last year and my mental energy and alertness never got better and it was affecting my ability to work so I'm a little worried that the same thing is going to happen but lets just hope it won't.

I worked out form 7:00pm - 8:00pm. After working out, I started gettig migraines which supposedly is caused by too much serotonin produced from Escitalpram and physical exercise. After I got back home, I ate dinner and I took Pure Encapsulations Pottasium iodide 225mcg + Jarrow zinc balance + Jarrow B-Right which worsened my migraines further. Half an hour later, I took Whey Protein Isolate and Creatine and I immediately started feeling nauseous and my migraine got severe.

I ended up vomitting twice but my migraine didn't improve and I was walking back and forth because it was uncomfortable for me to sit still. After a third vomit and 2 hours later I finally started feeling better and managed to fall asleep. I'm not going to take any vitamins or whey protein/creatine anymore while on the SSRI since I'm afraid that it's going to induce nausea and vomiting again. Not to endorse nootropics since it's not a medicine, but I never experienced anything like this from nootropics. This is why I was afraid of going to the doctor and postponing the appointment, since I had a bad experience on roaccutane, and I lost trust in pharmaceutical medicine after that.

Day 2
Reduced to 5mg today and I still managed to not drink any Coffee today. But now my brain is very low on mental energy and attention/alertness. There's no way I could work like this if I had a job right now as my alertness is just not there.

Day 3 (End)
Since Escitalpram wasn't helping with my motivation/drive, attentiveness/alertness, mood and mental energy, I've decided to cease from taking it until I see a good private Psychiatrist and get a proper diagnosis. I've also decided to abstain from Coffee as well so that my brain can be in its true form while I'm getting the diagnosis. I don't really believe that I'm suffering from depression and my anxiety is caused by my lack of alertness/attentiveness, motivation/drive and mental energy preventing me from starting/finishing tasks. So by masking my anxiety with antidepressants, it's only going to make me even lazier.

jotaro

unread,
May 20, 2015, 10:27:58 AM5/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
how will you learn from others experience when its non exsistent? you dont experience anything other then your own, if you read some other dude experience you definitely analyze it in your own terms ,relate ro previous thoughts, but its still your experience.  you dont experience other people experience? and you cant, because your senses are connected only to your brain.
so in the end to reach a change in view, you need to hit theoratical contradiction , or practical one, but in the end you cant really assume wrongly until you hit the contradiction, it it comes from experience, if you dont meet it you are right, but still can be wrong.
theortical one is an experience too, in ones mind. a bit differently though.

thoughts are experiences, the logical conclusions u make are experiences, and
analyzing other experiences is an experience too.
so really, man. when some one experience something, you dont exprience it , you dont even have access to it.

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Heinstar <yuki.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm going to leave my SSRI experience here:

Day 1 
I just had my first 10mg Escitalpram today (5mg twice a day) and I was kind of dissapointed. All I felt was a slight buzz in my forehead similar to Piracetam and not much else. I was expecting an increase in my mood, motivation, feeling of wellbeing, alertness, and mental energy. But I got none of that. In fact, I felt more boost in feeling of wellbeing when I took 240mcg of iodine tablets when I was deficient in Iodine. With the way SSRI is making me feel right now, I highly doubt it's going to help me start learning to drive, get a low-end job and move out.

I know that it takes at least 2 months for the SSRI to start working, but if I really did have a chemical imbalance in my brain, I should have benefited from the acute effects of the SSRI immedietaly. 

I was hoping that the SSRIs would help me cut my dependence on Coffee as a source for motivation, alertness, mental energy and mood elevation and it has done that to an extent. I've managed to get through the day without drinking any coffee today, but at the same time, I'm no longer at University which is why I was able to get through the day. Since I didn't drink any coffee, I did experience a very low mental energy and sleepiness all day. I know that this is partly due to a caffeine withdrawal, but I've tried going off caffeine for 4 weeks before and my mental energy and alertness didn't improve so I'm a little worried that the same thing is going to happen.

Perhaps I truly do have ADD but I'm still going to give SSRI a trial for at least 2 months to see if it helps or not. If not, I'm going to ask if I can get tested for ADD.

jotaro

unread,
May 20, 2015, 10:39:36 AM5/20/15
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
there is of course another problem of individual difference, what works in other cases wont work in yours.

different genes, environment,health,memories and impulses

will require a plan based on your own specific case, other experiences usually have alot of variables that are not in common with you.
there is of course things in common too, but that is limited and this is where you can learn from others, otherwise you should adapt to your specifics.
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages