The "Ritaliney feeling"

[Jotto]

I wanted to see what other people's experiences were concerning what I have only seen referred to as a Ritalin-like feeling after doing a solid nback training session.

It seems to correlate with how well the training session itself went.  If after 10 sessions I'm already starting to not feel like continuing, I know the Ritaliney feeling will be very mild, even if I was to carry on for quite a while.  Once in a while it will come on quite strong.  The strongest I ever had it was the second time I tried Dual Combination nback (20 sessions).  I found it very easy to concentrate and my mood was boosted quite a lot, but in a calm and non-impulsive manner, similar to meditation but with it's own unique "texture" of thought.  It is fascinating as well as useful, my ability to have interesting debate and pleasant discussion was greatly enhanced.  I found thinking on my feet easier and my delivery for novel arguments was more refined and appreciable to others.  I'm generally aggressive and adversarial in discussion, so this may help me get more out of people by letting them enjoy the dialogue more.

The Ritaliney feeling has become one of the main reasons I still do nback training.  I've found it to be perhaps the only immediate reward to this training, and that information might be useful for self-motivating.  I'm currently experimenting with ways to enhance the Ritaliney feeling, though they pretty much just boil down to getting a better training session in.  More difficult, faster, and longer if possible.

I'd like to see other people's experience of this effect.

[Green]

I have definitely noticed this phenomena. Especially when I was doing
DNB speed-training.

I think it's just a symptom of being in "the zone."

[Mike]

Jotto do you use combo n-back with variable levels?

I only experience this ritaliney feeling when I do combo n-back. it's harder and more fun to play so I think it's a better workout. combo n-back also forces you to not just store but actively compare items held in your working memory--so more executive function is required than simple DNB.

actually I think I also got that feeling (not as intense though) when I did DNB QNB and TNB at 1sec per trial for the first time. also maybe playing pasat on cogfun.net

probably the first times I did DNB too I had that feeling but I can't remember well. recently combo n-back was very impressive though. I have to highlight that. we talked about it on this forum a while ago.

basically I think any brain training can do that as long as it's stressful enough and you really want to get to the next level. if you find the task boring it might not generate gains and the ritaliney feeling because you're not exercising concentration. concentration really goes hand in hand with stimulation, excitement and a little bit of adrenaline.

definitely that ritaliney feeling is great. instantly I am more awake and my mood is amazing. I have more willpower, too. more verbal too. I'm not the most verbal person and I usually have trouble explaining what I think, and after such trainings words come more easily to me, less awkwardly, and I enjoy listening to myself conversing about anything. I am calmer too.

I had the ritalin-feeling tonight again, playing combo n-back (I was lethargic for most of the day and just after this combo n-back session I have more energy and willpower--I should do this every morning instead which I sometimes do and it's great to jumpstart the day) 

I presume it boosts blood flow to the frontal lobes (broca area, executive function...). temporarily. maybe changes your brain waves too.

I feel it also has a long term effect. but the short term effect is very obvious and feels great.

when I played those more intense training sessions I remember I would hear loud noises before falling asleep. someone else on the forum had that too. I read on wikipedia that these noises are not dangerous and happen often when people are under stress or learning a new environment. so this could mean those sounds are the consequence of the rewiring of neurons and/or increased blood flow to the brain. I wonder what really causes those sounds.

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[CalorieRebel]

I'm very interested in this "Ritaliney" feeling you talk about.
I don't feel it, instead I get the opposite feeling when the Dual
NBack sessions become very difficult: I get fatigued, almost sleepy,
and I can't perform well at all on the task. I can't keep even 2 n-
backs in my head if I'm playing 5-back and go on too long.

Have any of you experienced this brain fatigue as well?

I also meditate and sometimes get sleepy when I meditate, but that's
extremely common and has to do more with becoming overly relaxed. It's
strange when it happens when I play N-back.

I'm curious, Mike and the other guys commenting on this topic, when
the n-back session becomes very hard, what are your "symptoms" of
this? When you see your performance drop off, what other physical or
mental (or emotional) sensations do you experience?

-Julie

On Dec 1, 5:27 pm, Mike <mikebk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jotto do you use combo n-back with variable levels?
>
> I only experience this ritaliney feeling when I do combo n-back. it's
> harder and more fun to play so I think it's a better workout. combo n-back

> also forces you to not just store *but actively compare items held in your
> working memory*--so more executive function is required than simple DNB.

>
> actually I think I also got that feeling (not as intense though) when I did
> DNB QNB and TNB at 1sec per trial for the first time. also maybe playing
> pasat on cogfun.net
> probably the first times I did DNB too I had that feeling but I can't
> remember well. recently combo n-back was very impressive though. I have to
> highlight that. we talked about it on this forum a while ago.
>
> basically I think any brain training can do that as long as it's stressful
> enough and you really want to get to the next level. if you find the task
> boring it might not generate gains and the ritaliney feeling because you're
> not exercising concentration. concentration really goes hand in hand with
> stimulation, excitement and a little bit of adrenaline.
>
> definitely that ritaliney feeling is great. instantly I am more awake and
> my mood is amazing. I have more willpower, too. more verbal too. I'm not
> the most verbal person and I usually have trouble explaining what I think,
> and after such trainings words come more easily to me, less awkwardly, and
> I enjoy listening to myself conversing about anything. I am calmer too.
>
> I had the ritalin-feeling tonight again, playing combo n-back (I was
> lethargic for most of the day and just after this combo n-back session I

> have more energy and willpower--*I should do this every morning instead
> which I sometimes do and it's great to jumpstart the day*)

[polar]

I'm familiar with the effect you describe - altough I have no
experience of medication, and in my experience, it's just long term
positive effect on mood stability, motivation, and calmness. I'm
curious whether it can have its slight downside too, as I asked a
while ago - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/brain-training/gV1E49mIlO0/TbG2k7-6ENMJ

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

Hello Mike

I experienced the loud noises before falling asleep as well. As for
the "Ritalin" effect, I've noticed this from DNB, but also from
lumosity's attention exercises. Essentially, staring at a screen and
looking for differences improves ability to control attention. DNB
requires this, as do certain applications on Lumosity (games under the
attention/focus tab). Hope this helps to clear up any questions.

On Dec 1, 7:27 pm, Mike <mikebk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jotto do you use combo n-back with variable levels?
>
> I only experience this ritaliney feeling when I do combo n-back. it's
> harder and more fun to play so I think it's a better workout. combo n-back

> also forces you to not just store *but actively compare items held in your
> working memory*--so more executive function is required than simple DNB.

>
> actually I think I also got that feeling (not as intense though) when I did
> DNB QNB and TNB at 1sec per trial for the first time. also maybe playing
> pasat on cogfun.net
> probably the first times I did DNB too I had that feeling but I can't
> remember well. recently combo n-back was very impressive though. I have to
> highlight that. we talked about it on this forum a while ago.
>
> basically I think any brain training can do that as long as it's stressful
> enough and you really want to get to the next level. if you find the task
> boring it might not generate gains and the ritaliney feeling because you're
> not exercising concentration. concentration really goes hand in hand with
> stimulation, excitement and a little bit of adrenaline.
>
> definitely that ritaliney feeling is great. instantly I am more awake and
> my mood is amazing. I have more willpower, too. more verbal too. I'm not
> the most verbal person and I usually have trouble explaining what I think,
> and after such trainings words come more easily to me, less awkwardly, and
> I enjoy listening to myself conversing about anything. I am calmer too.
>
> I had the ritalin-feeling tonight again, playing combo n-back (I was
> lethargic for most of the day and just after this combo n-back session I

> have more energy and willpower--*I should do this every morning instead
> which I sometimes do and it's great to jumpstart the day*)

[γενβιρΟ]

Yeah, I agree with a lot here. However, it is slightly annoying that
similar topics, among others, seem to endlessly pop up.

I'm wondering if maybe we could add some of this stuff to the FAQ.

Gwern?

On Dec 3, 1:11 am, "The.Fourth.Deviation." <davidsky...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Gwern Branwen]

2011/12/2 γενβιρΟ <carsth...@hotmail.com>:

>
>  I'm wondering if maybe we could add some of this stuff to the FAQ.
>
> Gwern?

There's nothing really to add. This Ritalin-ey thing sounds like what
you get if you read a really awesome novel or play an intensive video
game like a FPS for too many hours or whatever.

--
gwern
http://www.gwern.net

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

It's actually quite different. I would say there is zero similarity.
DNB heavily impacts executive function relating to attention control.

On Dec 2, 5:40 pm, Gwern Branwen <gwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/12/2 γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com>:

[Jotto]

Mike, sorry for the delayed response. I use dual combination n-back
but without variable levels. This is not a decision but rather I
simply haven't experimented with variable n levels yet.

The Tetris effect seems a plausible explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

However, I haven't had it come on as strong as the first or second
time I did Dual Combination. I believe my brain has become more
efficient at it, and now the effect won't be as noticeable unless I do
it even more intensely or for a longer period of time. I observed a
similar progression of skill when I started playing first person
shooters, and I noticed I had become hyper aware of my peripheral
vision for a few days, after which it seemed to settle down again,
despite my skill at the game still improving.

I also experience the loud noises before falling asleep. They sure
are peculiar, but fortunately harmless. Usually a thud, or a sudden
and brief burst of the fuzz that you hear between radio stations, or
sometimes the screech of a chair dragged along the floor. Bizarre! :D

On Dec 1, 8:27 pm, Mike <mikebk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jotto do you use combo n-back with variable levels?
>
> I only experience this ritaliney feeling when I do combo n-back. it's
> harder and more fun to play so I think it's a better workout. combo n-back

> also forces you to not just store *but actively compare items held in your
> working memory*--so more executive function is required than simple DNB.

>
> actually I think I also got that feeling (not as intense though) when I did
> DNB QNB and TNB at 1sec per trial for the first time. also maybe playing
> pasat on cogfun.net
> probably the first times I did DNB too I had that feeling but I can't
> remember well. recently combo n-back was very impressive though. I have to
> highlight that. we talked about it on this forum a while ago.
>
> basically I think any brain training can do that as long as it's stressful
> enough and you really want to get to the next level. if you find the task
> boring it might not generate gains and the ritaliney feeling because you're
> not exercising concentration. concentration really goes hand in hand with
> stimulation, excitement and a little bit of adrenaline.
>
> definitely that ritaliney feeling is great. instantly I am more awake and
> my mood is amazing. I have more willpower, too. more verbal too. I'm not
> the most verbal person and I usually have trouble explaining what I think,
> and after such trainings words come more easily to me, less awkwardly, and
> I enjoy listening to myself conversing about anything. I am calmer too.
>
> I had the ritalin-feeling tonight again, playing combo n-back (I was
> lethargic for most of the day and just after this combo n-back session I

> have more energy and willpower--*I should do this every morning instead
> which I sometimes do and it's great to jumpstart the day*)

[Jotto]

Julie, I have experienced some degree of fatigue after exhaustive
training sessions, but the decline in energy and performance is not as
sharp as you describe. I would simply notice myself becoming confused
more easily and I would lose place more frequently. However I don't
feel sleepy and I often go on after the nback training to playing an
action video game or reading without feeling compromised.

If it might be relevant, I'm 20 years old and always do the nback
training after a couple cups of tea. I also exercise and usually get
8 hours of sleep a night, so I would expect my brain to keep up. I
just wonder if you might have factors that cause you to tire more,
such as age. I hope I'm not being presumptuous or offensive.

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

In other threads on this forum its been discussed that working memory
training can oftentimes cause drowsiness