M4 Parramatta - Bottleneck James Ruse Drive

[Shaw]

Do you know if there is any project to solve the bottleneck in M4 in
James Ruse Drive / reduction to 2 lines?

I can see that there are 3 lines are already built, but one is closed
to allow in the traffic from James Ruse Drive.

Would it be possible to move the entrance from JR Drive towards
Silverwater Road?

Has it been considered to build a parallel road to M4 to support the
people coming from JR Drive instead of closing one line in M4? Would
it be too expensive to do so? I guess that the existing 3rd line in M4
would be a massive difference to the blockage we suffer every morning.

Rgds,

[Musa Hodzic]

Don't know about the problem to be solved but I've been thinking about the same thing for a long time now, even before the toll plaza was removed. We have 4=>3 lanes at the start of flyover and then again 3=>2 lanes at J.R.Dr as you've stated... and it is a real pain.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.
To post to this group, send email to aussie-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to aussie-highwa...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/aussie-highways?hl=en.

[Leo Giusti]

I understand nothing will be fixed untill the M4 East is built.

[davis]

Good on you Leo for having faith:

(1) The M4 East will be built

(2) It will include substantial upgrade/reconstruction of the M4 west of Homebush Bay Drive

(3) It will improve this specific issue

(4) It will improve this specific issue for more than a couple of years

 

:)

[hubertla...@gmail.com]

Even Homebush Bay Drive junction with the M4 needs significant reconfiguration. No more at grade intersections pleaseeeee! It’s congested enough at the Australia Ave/Underwood Road roundabout and Metroad 3/A3 doesn’t need another choke point.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aussie-highways/-/SxIi9fTW9hAJ.

[Musa Hodzic]

Clover leaf setup there would get rod of the choke point and there's enough room for it.

[hubertla...@gmail.com]

Absolutely. Government of the day just needs some balls to tell the Greens to stick it up their #@$@!$#@ and have the damn thing properly built. In fact it might REDUCE pollution due to the hugely decreased number of cars queueing up…..

 

However, I wonder how will cars merge in the clover leaf set up?  Wouldn’t South-then-westbound cars conflict with West-then-northbound cars on Lane 1 of the M4? Or is there a better way to set it up?

[Lachlan Sims]

Cloverleafs don't work in constrained areas for that reason. For full grade separation the only feasible option to prevent that kind of conflict is a stacked interchange like the M4/M7 Lighthorse setup.

[Musa Hodzic]

Stacked interchange could fit but would be more expensive to build. Yes, it's a bit right for a clover leaf but it doesn't have to be a full one then. Keep the lights from the M4 offramps just add additional onramps to the M4 from Homebush Bay Dr, one for eastbound and one for westbound traffic without lights, like an spui. At least, that would make a much better flow in that area. I went through there a number of times and took an average of half an hour to enter the M4 (peak time)

[davis]

The best case interchange reconstruction there is probably a volleyball type arrangement where both MR3 and M4 traffic flows freely, but interchanging involves traffic lights.

 

But nearly every M4 interchange needs work. The proximity of Parramatta Road to the M4 makes every one difficult. let's say:

 

* MR3: long bridge bypass M4 interchange intersections. Proximity of Australia Ave interchange a problem.

* Hill Road: exit ramp needs extending

* MR6: convert to SPUI, ramps need extending, particularly onload ramps

* James Ruse Drive - I'm open to suggestions!

* Church Street: we had this discussion a long, long time ago

* Cumberland Highway: bridge over M4 interchange, Great Western Highway intersection

* Prospect Highway: realign the ramps and replace roundabouts with lights (also close Ponds Road and create a diamond interchange between the Prospect Highway and GWH)

* Reservoir Road: WB entrance ramp needs extending

* Mulgoa Road: entrance ramps need extending (they're so steep, too much traffic does not make sufficient speed)

[Henry]

With James Ruse Drive - push the JRD - M4 citybound onramp further north turning into a 4th lane, which feeds into the Silverwater Rd off ramp. This will therefore extend the Silverwater Rd off ramp too. So then the existing JRD - M4 onramp can be converted into a 3rd lane from the viaduct. As for the westbound direction, make it merge rather than adding an extra lane so there would be 3 through lanes and JRD merges into westbound traffic.
. 

[Musa Hodzic]

I'd avoid diamond interchanges at all cost. You might be flying down the freeway during off peak and then lose 5-10 minutes on them due to slow phasing when waiting and fast when green (3 come to mind: Cumberland Hwy, Pennant Hills Rd & Lane Cove Rd - takes ages). Who else in the modern world builds them?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aussie-highways/-/3wmzhkD36gQJ.

[Jason Kumar]

Exactly what I was thinking and seems like a practical solution to solve the bottleneck which can be implemented right now. 

Also to add to the interchange list:

* Extending the eastbound on-ramps at Roper Rd and Mamre Rd as well (they aren't long enough as people don't pick up enough speed around the loops).

The only M4 interchange that is built properly is the M7 one!

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aussie-highways/-/VUxxM8Q8csAJ.

[Shaw]

For what you are saying, it seems there's not a firm plan for the
James Ruse Drive issue, and I have the impression that it is not even
in the agenda considered as a problem by the authorities.

I think the entrance to M4 (eastbound) at James Ruse Drive is a
problem big as an elephant. The existing 3rd line in M4 is closed
(painted lines) to allow in the coming flow from JRD. The blockage
makes M4 a parking lot from Cumberland Highway. I would say is the
main problem in M4. After Silverwater Road, the traffic flows
reasonably well, and even from Concord towards the city is a
reasonable drive (40/50 kms/hour). Coming from Penrith to the city,
we achieve an average of around 30kms hour, for 50 kms, the bulk of
the issue is this bottleneck, where we can spend 20/30 minutes to do a
few kms.

I'm surprised this "elephant" problem is not even in the agenda, when
it is a standalone issue that has nothing to do with building M4 east.

I guess that the solution should be to move the entrance of JRD a bit
towards Silverwater Rd, and/or build a different road in parallel to
M4, for the people coming from the north west. M4 is already
overloaded at that point, and it has no sense to make it completely
collapse to allow more people in. JRD entrance should be closed, and
a different solution should be worked out to solve the needs of the
people coming from the north west.

Anyway, as a nation it's great to have $ 77 billions in the Future
Fund, but it would be better to solve the infrastructure issues that
have been neglected for years.

Sorry for expressing my frustration in this forum.

Rgds,

[Conrad Zalewski]

Has anyone considered a tidal flow system? I believe it would satisfy everyone's issues.

- Cheap for the government - no need to rebuild everything which cost $$

- Three lanes of flowing traffic from HBD to Emu Plains during peak

- Enough 'room' for a safe merger for entering James Ruse Dr traffic

This issue would work (I believe) 4 days a week. On Friday, when there's just as much traffic heading into the city. At least it would be 3 WB and 2 EB, and not 2 WB and 2 EB.

I've had a 'grander' idea in my head for a while (very wishful thinking), but why not convert the viaduct into 4 lanes of traffic WB (plus 1 or 2 bus/taxi lanes EB and/or James Ruse Dr exiting/entering traffic) and make a tunnel EB between Church and the old tolls. WIth minor configuration, you could have 4 lanes in both directions from Cumberland Hwy almost to Concord Rd (or M4 East?):

- Cumberland Hwy to Coleman St - existing WB, add lane EB on southern side

- Coleman St to Church St - existing both ways

- Church St to 'old tolls' - Viaduct WB and tunnel EB

- 'Old tolls' to Silverwater Rd - add lane (there's room for it to be done easily) WB, existing EB

- Silverwater Rd bridge - would need to be looked at

- Silverwater Rd to HBD - remove grassy median, enough to add two lanes (may need to review Haslams Creek, Hill Rd and Birnie Ave bridges)

- HBD to Concord Rd - seems to be enough room on the northern side of the road, but struggle between Underwood Rd and Concord Rd - but by then, you could tunnel the traffic here to the city.

I know that doesn't solve all the problems (ie, interchanges), but thought I'd put in my two cents.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To post to this group, send email to aussie-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to aussie-highwa...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/aussie-highways?hl=en.

--


Conrad...

[Paul Rands]

Tidal flow works well on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, so I think it would be an excellent option.

--

Paul Rands

paul...@gmail.com

[davis]

70km/h speed limit, coming right up.

[Musa Hodzic]

This shows the problem when roads are built without foresight.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aussie-highways/-/7X5wnfwmYc4J.

[davis]

Umm but it was. The viaduct as built had four lanes plus shoulders. It was designed so it could be re-striped into six lanes. Its construction commenced 30 years ago. How much foresight do you want?

[Musa Hodzic]

I understand what you're saying but losing shoulders for an extra lane is not really foresight on a 90 kph freeway plus changing JR Dr viaducts into merges doesn't really solve the problem much as there's a lot of traffic entering the freeway during peaks. What I meant was foresight in a complete setup as 3x3 with breakdown lanes and keeping the JR Dr viaducts. Dunno, maybe it's just me.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aussie-highways/-/VHKt91LLnfIJ.

[Sam Laybutt]

Having just used the M4/James Ruse Drive bottleneck several times, I still think the current setup is superior to having 3 through lanes. The safety ramifications of trucks merging westbound at 40km/h would be disastrous.


The bottleneck wasn't as bad as this before the toll was removed - thanks NSW Govt! I wonder what the change in traffic volumes are since the toll was removed on (a) the section through to the tolls and (b) the JRD ramps.

[Sam Laybutt]

A new citybound ramp at both Roper Road and Mamre Road would do wonders - all it would have to be is a slip for southbound traffic turning left. Took me 4 sets of lights to turn right (citybound) onto the M4 at Mamre Road and it wasn't even peak. 

---

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:49:14 +1000

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M4 Parramatta - Bottleneck James Ruse Drive

From: jas...@gmail.com
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[Sam Laybutt]

> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 02:19:39 -0700
> Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: M4 Parramatta - Bottleneck James Ruse Drive
> From: shaw...@gmail.com
> To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

> 
> I think the entrance to M4 (eastbound) at James Ruse Drive is a
> problem big as an elephant. The existing 3rd line in M4 is closed
> (painted lines) to allow in the coming flow from JRD. The blockage
> makes M4 a parking lot from Cumberland Highway. I would say is the
> main problem in M4. After Silverwater Road, the traffic flows
> reasonably well, and even from Concord towards the city is a
> reasonable drive (40/50 kms/hour). Coming from Penrith to the city,
> we achieve an average of around 30kms hour, for 50 kms, the bulk of
> the issue is this bottleneck, where we can spend 20/30 minutes to do a
> few kms.

Beyond Silverwater Road flows better because the bottleneck at JRD restricts the volume of traffic which can pass through that point. It certainly won't flow that well if you remove the bottleneck (imagine a water going into a funnel for the general principle).

Mind you, there's always the train! With 20tph and a faster service from Penrith on the way, there'll be even less reason to drive :)

[Jason Kumar]

From experience I find people who enter JRD (including the trucks) tend to want to merge straight into the middle lane anyways, so for me they don't deserve their own dedicated lane. It's no different to a truck trying to merge onto the M4 citybound at Silverwater Rd.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Sam Laybutt <crazykn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Having just used the M4/James Ruse Drive bottleneck several times, I still think the current setup is superior to having 3 through lanes. The safety ramifications of trucks merging westbound at 40km/h would be disastrous.


The bottleneck wasn't as bad as this before the toll was removed - thanks NSW Govt! I wonder what the change in traffic volumes are since the toll was removed on (a) the section through to the tolls and (b) the JRD ramps.

--

[Musa Hodzic]

That's why they extended the merge lane there some time ago.

[Albert Alcoceba]

Growth in Rope's Crossing and other estates nearby have generated a
lot of traffic recently entering and leaving the M4 at Mamre Road.
Lots more truck traffic too than before. Twelve months ago it was no
where near this bad.

On 24 Jul 2012 at 20:33, Sam Laybutt wrote:

A new citybound ramp at both Roper Road and Mamre Road would do
wonders - all it would have to be is a slip for southbound traffic
turning left. Took me 4 sets of lights to turn right (citybound) onto
the M4 at Mamre Road and it wasn't even peak.

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:49:14 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M4 Parramatta - Bottleneck James Ruse
Drive
From: jas...@gmail.com
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com


Also to add to the interchange list:
* Extending the eastbound on-ramps at Roper Rd and Mamre Rd as well
(they aren't long enough as people don't pick up enough speed around
the loops).

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Aussie Highways" group.

To post to this group, send email to aussie-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to aussie-

highways+u...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/aussie-highways?hl=en.

--
Kind Regards,

Albert Alcoceba
<><