Commercial decks possibility from third party developers

[Wisam]

AnkiDroid decks are created either personally or can be downloaded as shared decks (community effort). I am thinking of a third option to allow commercial decks available. This gives users another option to get decks that are not available otherwise. There are companies out there that create flashcards for preparation of board exams of professional quality. Those companies - I am thinking - can use AnkiDroid as tool to let users purchase and use their flash cards on Anki. Anki is very powerful spaced repetition app.

But with no revenue for those companies, they will not be interested to sell their decks on Anki. Maybe it is a good idea to have a way to let them do that. AnkiDroid can show a list (besides personal and shared) of commercial decks and users can purchase them through Google checkout or something. Once the deck is authenticated then it can be used.
Part of the revenue from selling the commercial decks can go to fund future Anki development. Maybe this is not the right place to post this but I know Damien and other developers check this.

[Damien Elmes]

It's on the todo list.

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[Nicolas Raoul]

Hi Kit,

I have never tried it, but just found this website which might be
convenient to sell decks:
http://uploadnsell.com

Cheers!
Nicolas Raoul

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:55 PM, <k...@oldmankit.com> wrote:
> Thank you very much for that thoughtful comment.
>
> I would be happy to sell them without DRM. I'd be grateful for suggestions
> of what would be the best way to sell them. (I don't currently have any
> ecommerce solutions on my website.) Could you sell an Anki deck through
> Amazon?
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 2:32:30 PM UTC+7, dalama...@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:57:12 AM UTC+2, k...@oldmankit.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Did this get anywhere? I think it's a great idea.
>>>
>>> I am developing a set of decks with a niche audience, and know that there
>>> is nothing like it on the market now. This is why I am creating them.
>>> They will probably be two years in the making. I'd love to be able to sell
>>> them when they are polished and ready.
>>
>>
>> You can sell your decks right now as long as you don't need to add any
>> kind of DRM to them. Several businesses are doing that (e.g. Amazon with
>> MP3s, Smashwords with ebooks, etc.)
>>
>> If you want DRM then it is going to be more difficult. First keep in mind
>> that it is virtually impossible to make unbreakable DRM. Second Anki and the
>> deck file format are open source so it will be probably trivial to just
>> bypass and/or strip any DRM. This means that you will have to distribute
>> some closed source code with your decks that will take care of
>> authentication and decryption of the actual content. This could be your fork
>> of anki or possibly just a plugin, although I am not sure if it is possible
>> with the latter. Of course Damien may have a different idea so you might
>> want to wait for his reply.
>>
>> In any case I would advise anyone against using DRM for several reasons:
>> i) you will need to maintain your own code and make it compatible with
>> upgrades in both Anki and its mobile versions, ii) people can still find
>> ways around it, iii) you will be inconveniencing people that have paid for
>> it, iv) you will lose potential buyers since some people will not buy
>> anything DRM-ridden.

>
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[Flavio Lerda]

Just a thought...

One could also use the Google Play Store to host an app that installs the deck on the device's SD card, similarly to the way the font installer that recently came up does.

Not sure, but that might also allow to implement deck updates (e.g., correct mistakes).

 

-Flavio

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:12 AM, <k...@oldmankit.com> wrote:

Hi Nicolas,

Great tip!  Thanks!
Kit

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[Nicolas Raoul]

Flavio, that's a great idea!

The app's name should be like "Kit's Spanish flashcards for
AnkiDroid", to not cause confusion. Also, I guess the app icon should
not try to mimick the icons of Anki/AnkiDroid.

It would be easier for users, and updatable by the publisher, which
are two strong selling arguments.

Cheers!
Nicolas Raoul

[Flavio Lerda]

That's a very good point. Yes, I was very Android focused :)

I am not sure about the AnkiMobile.

However, I imagine with Anki on the desktop one could create a plug-in (for discoverability) that installs a menu item with a list of the decks that one can purchases and then redirect to a purchase site like the one Nicolas mentioned above.

Something like:

Menu -> Tools -> Kit's Language Decks -> Spanish Beginners, Spanish Intermediate, Spanish Advanced

The plug-in could also take care of updating decks when revisions are issued.

I do not think I would want to pay for something that does not come with some amount of support.

I found in the past that many of the decks (admittedly they are free) contain errors and imprecisions.

I would expect something better before I am willing to pay money for it.

I think one of the major barriers would be discoverability and trust if you are buying a deck from a random website, that's why I thought the Google Play Store would be a reasonable choice, but of course it is limited to Android.

-Flavio

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:46 AM, <dalama...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Although Google Play is a great idea and very convenient for us, you won't be able to reach the people that just use the desktop version and/or Ankimobile.

Just another thing to consider I guess.

cheers

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[Nicolas Raoul]

You mean Google Play is not available on iPhone? ;-)

Maybe you should begin simple and get sophisticated only if you get clients:
step1: "pay me by paypal and I send you the deck by email"
step2: uploadnsell-like
step3: uploadnsell-like + google play
step4: uploadnsell-like + google play + itunes?

"many of the decks contain errors and imprecisions" ← While this is
true now, I believe the quality of downloaded decks will soon improve
a lot, thanks to the new rating system Damien implemented :-)

Cheers!
Nicolas Raoul

[Flavio Lerda]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Nicolas Raoul <nicola...@gmail.com> wrote:

You mean Google Play is not available on iPhone? ;-)

:)

 

Maybe you should begin simple and get sophisticated only if you get clients:
step1: "pay me by paypal and I send you the deck by email"
step2: uploadnsell-like
step3: uploadnsell-like + google play
step4: uploadnsell-like + google play + itunes?

Yes, that sounds like a good plan. Starting easy is always better.

But, to be honest, I am not sure I would send money to someone

via PayPal today to get an Anki deck because I would not know how

good the content would be and I have no way to dispute the purchase.

So maybe some sort of reputation (like content rating as Google Play

Store or iTunes provide) is necessary if you want to see beyond people

who you know personally and who would trust you implicitly.

"many of the decks contain errors and imprecisions" ← While this is
true now, I believe the quality of downloaded decks will soon improve
a lot, thanks to the new rating system Damien implemented :-)

Yes and no. Even well curated content will have errors and imprecisions.

I have an iKnow subscription and I often report issues with their content,

either because there are typos, something is unclear, or just not good

for learning (either too many Japanese words with the same English

meaning or two many meanings for a single word, which is not good for

learning purposes).

Of course, things will improve when there is ratings in terms of being able

to find better content and incentivize content producers to improve their

content and fix issues, but even now, there is no way to "update" a shared

deck without re-downloading, right? And this would lose the whole review

history, right?

I am just stating that as a Anki user I would pay for content (I do with iKnow),

but only if it is high quality, and regularly updated and improved.

-Flavio

--
Flavio Lerda

[ziyahan...@gmail.com]

Hi All;

I think about of commercial deck too. I can suggest a system such as Amazon Whispernet. 

An special email address can be declared for each user, example : any...@deck.ankidroid.com 

When An email sent to this address, If mobile device is connect to internet, get this mail and add deck to AnkiDroid. 

Or...

We should write our commercial flashcard data to AnkiDroid database by our third party application that also will be sale on google play. I prepared a software like this. If you want, I can share you. 

Looking forward to hearing from you

Sincerly.

[Xiao Sun]

I hope this does not happen. You guys seriously want to turn Anki into a commercial ecosystem like Google Play or Apple Store? Since there is no DRM, if there are commercial decks to Play Store, someone (not me, maybe, just joking) will buy it, export it, refund it and upload it to thepiratebay, I swear it it will happen.

[Ziyahan ALBENiZ]

Xiao;

Anki is an open source and free program. Anyone can compile and deploy it anytime. We discuss  can some flashcard be commercial? 

I prepared some flashcard giving more efforts. for resuming this work, I should gain. So, I think to sale my flashcard with few price.

Ziyahan Albeniz 

Bilgisayar Programcısı

GSM : +90 533 637 1572
Skype : ziyahanalbeniz
Web    : http://ziyahanalbeniz.blogspot.com

2013/10/9 Xiao Sun <financia...@gmail.com>

[Nicolas Raoul]

Hello Xiao,

I don't think this would necessarily happen.

Android apps can be downloaded from Pirate Bay and installed quite easily, but still, most people just buy them.

Like Wisam, I believe having a marketplace for commercial decks would benefit many users, especially in niche topics.

Cheers!

Nicolas Raoul

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[Flavio Lerda]

One thing I wanted to mention, since some of the people on

this thread might be working on something like this.

If you writes a program that uses some of the code in AnkiDroid,

(e.g., the code to write to the collections' database) and decide to

distribute it (e.g., via Google Play), you are might legally required

to make the entire source code of your application available to

anyone who asks for it.

I just figured people might want to be aware of this before

embarking in a large project around making commercial decks

for AnkiDroid.

Flavio

[Ziyahan ALBENiZ]

Flavio you are right! It is licensed under to GPL.

There are  two reasons for commercial decks. 

1) One click operation. When User pay and install program, his flashcards will be shown on the Ankidroid.

2) Deny illegal sharing ...

Ziyahan Albeniz 

Bilgisayar Programcısı

GSM : +90 533 637 1572
Skype : ziyahanalbeniz
Web    : http://ziyahanalbeniz.blogspot.com

2013/10/9 Flavio Lerda <fle...@gmail.com>

[Xiao Sun]

But an Anki deck is not an app, a deck is a file not a program. Selling Anki decks on Google Store is like trying to sell an .xls file, does Google allow one to sell a file like that?

People buy apps because first it is cheap and they get the privilege of getting permanent updates. And people buy movies and books from app stores because they are unable nor do they want to change the content of the material.

However Anki deck contain none of the of the features mentioned above, people will want to customise the deck they buy, make new card templates, add new fields, add new notes, fix errors etc, the last they want is a "update" from the original author that wipes out all their work, on the same point, once I customise the deck, I am now the new copyright owner, therefore I should be able to pass the new and improved deck to anyone I want or sell it App store too as a competition against the original seller?

Because if anyone that want to sell a deck that restrict the end user from modifying or adding the to the deck, the appeal of the deck will be greatly reduced, if that's even possible. This again goes back to my original point, a deck is a file, not a program or a media content.

[Ziyahan ALBENiZ]

Xiao Sun;

We dont tell AnkiDroid is program or not. We disscuss third party program that can download flashcard and import into Ankidroid. 

Ziyahan Albeniz 

Bilgisayar Programcısı

GSM : +90 533 637 1572
Skype : ziyahanalbeniz
Web    : http://ziyahanalbeniz.blogspot.com

2013/10/9 Xiao Sun <financia...@gmail.com>

[Renato Goes]

I agree with Xiao. After you get a deck, paying or not, you'll customize it on your way. This edited deck will have the effort of this user too, would he be able to sell it as a modified deck?

Maybe an option for deck commercialization is charge the user for the development and customization of a deck, and then release it as a "opensource".

2013/10/9 Ziyahan ALBENiZ <ziyahan...@gmail.com>

[kitjo...@gmail.com]

I think Xiao Sun makes some good points, especially about the need for updating decks, however there are probably cases where people would never need to update the decks themselves.

Let's say for example that I create a deck for learning shortcut keys for a program like VIM. (This is a completely fictitious example.) Once they have been learned, they have been learned, and there is no need to go back and edit the deck. The only times the deck would need to be changed was if the shortcut keys themselves changed, for example when a program update came out. The author of the original deck would make the necessary adjustments and then re-issue the deck to paying customers.

If the customer wanted to customise the deck, they would need to save it in a separate deck name, but know that when updates come out they cannot be merged. This would therefore not be recommended, rather, they would be encouraged to make a brand new deck and use it in conjunction with the deck given. This is flexible, so the author would need to do a great job of selling the fact that their deck is already complete. 'Completeness' is impossible with a language, but it is not impossible with certain subjects that have a finite number of data. Even within language it would be possible. I could make the world's most awesome deck about how to learn the Thai alphabet, which although slightly tricky is definitely finite.

Regarding copyright, as part of selling the deck (just like selling an.xls file), you would need to make copyright issues very clear, which includes the fact that this deck, even if modified, contains intellectual property of the author and must not be reproduced without permission.

And of course people can always crack DRM and upload any file they like to pirate bay, so the author must never expect that their work will not be pirated. But that doesn't mean they should not try to charge for it.

[l...@shocklogic.com]