Weight loss?

[Gordon]

I was diagnosed T2 pre-diabetic about 8 years ago. I have been very
careful with my diet and exercise and generally keep my BG readings
within an acceptable range. My blood tests consistently show my A1c <
7.0% and my doctor says this is pretty good.

Over the years I've lost weight to the point that I am now rail thin.
I am a tall white male in my later years and I have dropped from 240
pounds a few years ago around 170 pounds, presently. My doctors don't
seem to think this is a problem and offer no suggestions as to how I
could re-gain some of this lost weight.

My thinking is that my insulin resistance inhibits the body cells from
taking glucose in and storing it as fat. I suppose this un-stored
glucose is flushed out by my kidneys and the result is that I slowly
loose weight.

Does anyone here have any suggestions as to how I could re-gain some
of this lost weight without compromising my diabetes situation?

Thanks, Gordon

[Francher]

At diabetes classes I have seen a few like you Gordon. A minority like
yourself react with weight loss. Sadly, not for me. What I heard once
was that the fat cells do not become insulin resistant and that is why
most people react by getting fat.

My wife's weight became a problem. At least her doctor felt that way.
She had lost weight like yourself and had dropped to 110 pounds. Her
doctor told her to begin eating more meat. He knew not to tell her to
eat sweets. He suggested marbled meat for her. He said it was very dense
calorie wise. It turned out he was right and she managed to get back up
to 120 pounds. She is only 5 foot 8 inches so this weight is no longer
dangerous for her.

I cannot say that this remedy will work for you. We all have different
body chemistry. However, it may be worth a try. Eating marbled meat
would not be dangerous. You can also eat chicken with the skin on. My
wife got sick of eating marbled beef. She went on to chicken with skin
and that has kept her on a safe weight.

Francher

[Gordon]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:38:13 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

Thanks, Francher, I'll check into this some more. I eat lots of
marbled meet and white chicken, but I don't eat much chicken with the
skin.

I'm wondering if gut bacteria balance might be the root of my problem.
If my digestive system won't process carbohydrate food very well it
seems this could result in most of my carbohydrate intake being
flushed down the stool.

Gordon

[Gordon]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:38:13 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

I failed to mention that I am taking Ropinirole, DCL 1.5 mg tablets
twice each day. I suppose this medication could be linked with my
weight loss problem. Gordon

[Henry Mydlarz]

"Gordon" <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:0ft2ob9j18992p9ps...@4ax.com...

As an aside, Gordon, I suggest you get your HbA1c way lower than 7%

I doubt too many can get is as low as Francher's, but I suggest something
in-between.

My last endo suggested I bring my HbA1c <<<up>>> to 7% - I won't be calling
on her again...

Don't listen to doctors who have the attitude "near enough is good enough"

Henry

[Gys de Jongh]

Your theory is totally wrong and not fitted to accomplish anything, Imo

If you loose weight unexpectedly go back to your doctor dont come up
with a theory that works in Asd

Gys

[Francher]

I was thinking the same thing about his A1C Henry. It should be lower
than 7. He can get it as low as mine. Gordon, if you want to, I can
share the foods we have discovered that do not raise BG numbers. There
are a lot of foods available to bring your numbers at least down to 5
point something and if you get aggressive with it as I have, even a
touch below 5.

Francher

[ra...@val.com]

>I'm wondering if gut bacteria balance might be the root of my problem.
>If my digestive system won't process carbohydrate food very well it
>seems this could result in most of my carbohydrate intake being
>flushed down the stool.

Healthy gut bacteria needs plenty of complex carb/fiber/resistant
starch.
High protein/High fat diets are non consistent with healthy gut
bacteria.

Randy

[ra...@val.com]

>>> My thinking is that my insulin resistance inhibits the body cells from
>>> taking glucose in and storing it as fat. I suppose this un-stored
>>> glucose is flushed out by my kidneys and the result is that I slowly
>>> loose weight.

With an A1c <7 it's doubtful you are losing glucose through your
urine. This usually doesn't happen until glucose is over 200.

Randy

[ra...@val.com]

> As an aside, Gordon, I suggest you get your HbA1c way lower than 7%

I'd go slowly here.
Surprisingly - studies of folks over 65 have shown increased negative
issues when going below 7%. Some even recommend not going below 8% or
so in older folks

This was not recognized earlier because most studies were weighted
towards younger folks.

Not saying this is a hard and fast rule (current standard of care
states it as hard rule) but become familiar with the literature.

Here's a list references::
http://tinyurl.com/zojxw7f

My feeling is that if you can do this with decreased meds + more
exercise + fasting (5:2 Diet) + better diet (am not sure if super low
carb diets are healthy) then I would do it.

Randy

[Gordon]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:23:06 -0500, ra...@val.com wrote:

>
>> As an aside, Gordon, I suggest you get your HbA1c way lower than 7%
>I'd go slowly here.
>Surprisingly - studies of folks over 65 have shown increased negative
>issues when going below 7%. Some even recommend not going below 8% or
>so in older folks
>

This is in agreement with what my doctors have told me. They think my
HbA1c is about right where it should be.

>
>This was not recognized earlier because most studies were weighted
>towards younger folks.
>
>Not saying this is a hard and fast rule (current standard of care
>states it as hard rule) but become familiar with the literature.
>
>Here's a list references::
>http://tinyurl.com/zojxw7f
>
>My feeling is that if you can do this with decreased meds + more
>exercise + fasting (5:2 Diet) + better diet (am not sure if super low
>carb diets are healthy) then I would do it.
>
>Randy
>

Exercise and strict diet control works best for me. I may still have
the genotype that my ancient ancestors had that was adapted to their
lifestyle of getting out and around, regardless of the weather...find
food or starve to death!

[Gordon]

This may be right but I still don't know why I've lost so much weight
recently. I weigh less now than I did when I was in my late teen
years. Gordon

[Gordon]

I try to eat lots of things like salads, All Bran cereal, whole wheat
bread, etc., but this hasn't curtailed my weight loss problem. Gordon

[Gordon]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:03:35 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

Francher, I'd be interested in knowing what foods you think would help
me. In general I feel pretty good most of the time but my energy level
is usually low and my weight loss problem has me concerned. As my wife
mentioned, "If you get any thinner you'll have to stand twice to make
a shadow!" Gordon

[Gordon]

I am just guessing about all this. I really don't know "come here from
sickum", as the old timers used to say. Gordon

[ra...@val.com]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:02:54 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

I understand your concern.
But if you feeling well, that should mitigate your worries somewhat.


You might want to check this out:
http://tinyurl.com/gnfvlw9

Randy

[Gordon]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:03:35 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

Francher, I received your e-mail with the food information. I printed
this out and gave it to my wife. She is the one in charge of food
purchases and preparation, here. I'll see how these items work out
with me. Thanks, Gordon

[W. Baker]

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

: On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:23:06 -0500, ra...@val.com wrote:

: >
: >> As an aside, Gordon, I suggest you get your HbA1c way lower than 7%
: >I'd go slowly here.
: >Surprisingly - studies of folks over 65 have shown increased negative
: >issues when going below 7%. Some even recommend not going below 8% or
: >so in older folks
: >
: This is in agreement with what my doctors have told me. They think my
: HbA1c is about right where it should be.

I had a lng talk with my endo about this issue of increased mortality for
older diabetics with A1c's lower than 6-6.5. I had maintained a level
between 5.6-5.8 for many years and suddenly the endo wanted me higher,
about 6.5. He lowered my metformin to 500 mg ONCE a day rataher than
twice as it had been for 6 years and halved my
glimpperide to 1/2 mg from 1. I now run around 6.3-6.4.

He said that at first there was some thought that the cause of the
mortality was that the foks with low A1c's were on tons of meds and had
underlying conditions, etc, as many discussed here when the ACCORD study
was cancelled because of folks with low A1c's havaign greater mortality
than those with higher A1c's. But, he said, there have beenseveral other
studies that have made the same finding without the heavy intake of meds.
they have no idea why, but now worry about those with low A1s's as they
age. IIRC, you are about my age(80 last February) so may well be getting
the same advice.

As to our weight, has your appetite lessened? do you have any problems
just eating full meals? I do not have your weight problem, but wish we
could shdivide our weight issues in two so I could lose soe and you could
gain some:-) Coul dyou add some between meal snacks jus to get more
calories into yourself?

I hoe you finda solution.

Wendy

[FOO]

OK Gordon,

For the low carb spaghetti I suggest very low carb sauce. You can buy it
at most big food markets. However, the lower the carb count, the higher
the price. If you are willing and able to pay for it, you can put meat
together with a very low carb sauce and it is a guilt free spaghetti
meal. The low carb bread mix is prepared here by throwing it in a bread
machine. You can make toasted cheese sandwiches to go with the
spaghetti. My wife also has a recipe for almost carb free pancakes for
breakfast. I will look for that recipe in Word and send it to you.

Francher

[Don Roberto]

+1

Don Roberto

[Gordon]

Thanks, Wendy, for your info. I don't have any significant appetite
problems but I have noticed that I don't eat quite as much as I did
when I was younger and my diabetes condition had not yet popped up. I
turned 82 last April and in general I feel pretty good. I just don't
have much energy and my cancer oncology has messed up my sinus and
lung system, making it difficult for me to swallow food without the
risk of choking and my lungs feel like I have something like pneumonia
developing but it doesn't get very bad.

My main concern is that I cannot go on losing weight at the rate I
have been losing it the past two or three years. If I don't get this
stabilized I will surely be in some kind of medical trouble.

My doctors all say about the same thing you mentioned. They think my
A1c readings are about where they should be, all factors considered.

Gordon

[Gordon]

I'll have to try these things a bit at a time. I have never been very
fond of spaghetti, but maybe I need to adjust my preferences in the
hopes of gaining back some of my lost weight. Gordon

[Gordon]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:01:23 +0200, Gys de Jongh
<jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote:

Actually, this wasn't/isn't my theory. It is just the information I
have assembled from various sources, on-line and magazines. I really
am not qualified to make a firm assessment, here, but would like to
have the insights of others who have been through the same thing.

Gordon

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Gordon heeft uiteengezet op 10-7-2016 :

Have you considered the use of insulin?
M.

[Gordon]

Maya, I am T2 or maybe still pre-diabetic T2. My doctors have told me
that my insulin level is very good and stable but it is insulin
resistance that is causing my problems. Gordon

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Gordon wrote:
>
> I was diagnosed T2 pre-diabetic about 8 years ago. I have been very
> careful with my diet and exercise and generally keep my BG readings
> within an acceptable range. My blood tests consistently show my A1c <
> 7.0% and my doctor says this is pretty good.
>
> Over the years I've lost weight to the point that I am now rail thin.
> I am a tall white male in my later years and I have dropped from 240
> pounds a few years ago around 170 pounds, presently. My doctors don't
> seem to think this is a problem and offer no suggestions as to how I
> could re-gain some of this lost weight.

Unintentional weight loss does actually indicate a problematic loss of appetite.

I would suggest you consult with your doctors about what could be causing your loss of appetite.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://JiL4ever.net/VAT from around the heart

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://JiL4ever.net/Luke2442
which is the absolutely only **healthy** cure for acquired disease

[Henry Mydlarz]

"Gordon" <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:2gr5ob52vabb0u1jn...@4ax.com...

A couple of my doctors expressed a concern when my A1c was creeping up to
three and a quarter.

I hate to think, Gordon, that you are choosing the option of a higher A1c
simply because it more suits your lifestyle.

Henry

[F00]

(On 7/10/2016 5:58 PM, FOO wrote:)

That should be Fake-FOO

Now Francher/Michael-and all those psuedo identities, are trying to be
me again!

WTF is wrong with you, jackass?

[W. Baker]

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:
: On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 22:53:39 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"

That swallowing problem might actually be affecting the amounts you
actually eat. You might try soup, either withor as a meal, of small
protions as snacks. I am not talking about starchy soups, but meat and
begetable cominations,perhaps pureed to make them easier to swallow. I
used tomake something called chicken velvet soup, but making a chicen
soup, removeing the chicken bones and then pureeing the meat and
vegetables. My kids used to like it and no added carby starches
likenoodles, etc. Just a thought. If eggs arenot an issue foryou,
custards also are easyon the swallowing. I remember my mother making me
egg custard when I was 7 and had had my tonsils out andhad a comlication
so I could not even eat theromised ice cream:-( You can sweetenthese with
non-nutritive sweeteners so the bgs will be less afffectied. Keeping some
dishes of no sugar added puddings around for snacks, etc, might help. I
think you get the picture here, soft texture/low carb. Also, try cutting
your food into very small pieces. My husband had swallowing issues as the
result of a TIA in that portion of his brain. I would just sut the food
into very tiny pieces and he could enjoy all his favorites like pickled
herrign and lamb chops. You may well be eatign less that you realize
because of this swallowing problem, making the whole process of eating
less leasurable.

Wendy

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Gordon heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :

So you take no meds for diabetes at all? Only diet?
Some 100 years ago they invented insulin, a medicin that is injected
when one is out of ones options, i.e. loosing too much weight because
of the "meagre diet".
Some 100 years ago you would have died from starvation, as so many
diabetics then did.

Pre-diabetic with an Hba1c of 7%, is a contradictio in terminis.
M.

[Gordon]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:56:28 +0200, Maya Zuiderweg

I take Metformin but this is the only thing I take specifically for my
T2 diabetes condition.

>
>Some 100 years ago they invented insulin, a medicin that is injected
>when one is out of ones options, i.e. loosing too much weight because
>of the "meagre diet".
>Some 100 years ago you would have died from starvation, as so many
>diabetics then did.
>
>Pre-diabetic with an Hba1c of 7%, is a contradictio in terminis.
>M.
>

I am not T1 diabetic. Those are the ones who need to take insulin. I
am T2 pre-diabetic and my pancreas still makes plenty of insulin. My
body's cells won't respond to this insulin and this restricts the
transfer of glucose into the body's cells. This results in too much
glucose staying in my blood and if this gets too high it can cause
severe problems. Fortunately this isn't yet a problem with me but it
could develop. Gordon

[randyf]

maya wrote:
>>Pre-diabetic with an Hba1c of 7%, is a contradictio in terminis.
>>M.

>I am not T1 diabetic. Those are the ones who need to take insulin. I
>am T2 pre-diabetic and my pancreas still makes plenty of insulin.

maya's point is that an A1C of 7, by definition, means you're a
diabetic.

Here's the current diagnostic criteria:

***********
To be diagnosed with diabetes, you must meet one of the following
criteria. Any or all is classified as diabetes:

1. Have symptoms of diabetes (increased thirst, increased urination,
and unexplained weight loss) and a blood sugar level equal to or
greater than 200 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dL). The blood sugar
test is done at any time, without regard for when you last ate (random
plasma glucose test or random blood sugar test).


2. Have a fasting blood sugar level that is equal to or greater than
126 mg/dL. A fasting blood sugar test (fasting plasma glucose) is done
after not eating or drinking anything but water for 8 hours.

3. Have a 2-hour oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) result that is
equal to or greater than 200 mg/dL. An OGTT is most commonly done to
check for diabetes that occurs with pregnancy (gestational diabetes).


4. Have a hemoglobin A1c that is 6.5% or higher.
http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/tc/criteria-for-diagnosing-diabetes-topic-overview

***************

Randy

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Gordon bracht volgend idée uit :

You are mistaken. Not only T1 diabetics need to take insulin.
Here is an article:
http://www.joslin.org/info/the_truth_about_insulin_and_type_2_diabetes.html

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/10/2016 9:13 PM, Gordon wrote:
> Maya, I am T2 or maybe still pre-diabetic T2. My doctors have told me
> that my insulin level is very good and stable but it is insulin
> resistance that is causing my problems. Gordon

Gordon, you are a very advanced diabetic with that A1c. How advanced
should be easy to discern using this flyer:
www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/flyer.pdf

Mortality from CVD begins to rise at HbA1c above 4.6% and at every
increment from there on, precipitously once A1c is above 5%. A large
percentage of people labeled "pre" diabetic have diabetic complications
like retinopathy, nephropathy and neuropathies and CVD. My own advanced
kidney damage and severe neuropathies (reversed with low carb diet in
1998 and still absent) occurred without my HbA1c ever having risen above
6.9% and without a diagnostic fasting glucose ever, just high post meal
exursions above 200.

What's happening in your body is more important than what's on a lab
report. There is no evidence that abnormally high blood glucose and A1c
is safer for diabetics of any age, and no study comparing such outcomes
to those of patients on medications and the high carb diets prescribed
with them has exonerated both the standard diabetes diet and drug
mortality elevations found in the ACCORD trials.

Susan

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/10/2016 4:04 PM, Gordon wrote:
> I try to eat lots of things like salads, All Bran cereal, whole wheat
> bread, etc., but this hasn't curtailed my weight loss problem. Gordon

If you want to gain fat, those are the things to eat. If you want to
build lean body mass/muscle, eat animal proteins and unpolluted fats,
like dairy and marbled grass fed meat.

You may also ask for a c peptide test to see if how much fat storage
hormone you're producing.


Susan

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/10/2016 6:53 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> But, he said, there have beenseveral other
> studies that have made the same finding without the heavy intake of meds.
> they have no idea why, but now worry about those with low A1s's as they
> age.

Which I have never seen, first of all. Second of all, no one ever said
it was due the the meds alone; it's also due to the lousy rx'ed diet.

Susan

[Gordon]

Susan, I remain a bit confused here. My doctors and numerous
books/magazines I've read show a different barrier than the level you
give.

http://www.diabeteswellbeing.com/a1c-test/

This site seems to indicate that I am not in any danger. Gordon

[Gordon]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:27:21 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

To try to clear things up a bit, my last Hemoglobin A1c test, done on
March 4, 2016, was 6.6%. My doctor reviewed this and pointed out that
as long as my A1c reading is less than 7.0 I and I keep my
diet/exercise under control I am not in trouble. Gordon

[randyf]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:33:54 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 7/10/2016 4:04 PM, Gordon wrote:
>> I try to eat lots of things like salads, All Bran cereal, whole wheat
>> bread, etc., but this hasn't curtailed my weight loss problem. Gordon
>
>If you want to gain fat, those are the things to eat. If you want to
>build lean body mass/muscle, eat animal proteins and unpolluted fats,
>like dairy and marbled grass fed meat.

Susan wrote:
>You may also ask for a c peptide test to see if how much fat storage
>hormone you're producing.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news but the latest research, fresh of
the presses has determined that Insulin/Fat thing just aint' so.

Gys posted:

<http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/59012>

Quote :
The results were, in other words, less than spectacular.
In fact, they were so underwhelming that Kevin Hall, MD, the lead
author
of the study and a researcher at NIH, proclaimed that the evidence,
when
added to an earlier study on carbohydrate restriction, showed that the
insulin carbohydrate model -- which holds that carbs are behind the
obesity epidemic because they increase circulating insulin -- was
essentially dead.

Randy

[randyf]

>Susan, I remain a bit confused here. My doctors and numerous
>books/magazines I've read show a different barrier than the level you
>give.
>
>http://www.diabeteswellbeing.com/a1c-test/

But you are still diabetic.
From your reference:

**********
The guidelines state that people without diabetes will normally have a
reading around 5 percent. People with pre-diabetes will have a reading
between 5.7 and 6.4 percent. Lastly, a reading of 6.5 percent or
higher will be diagnosed as having diabetes.
**********

What's confusing is that recently (last 5/6 years) older diabetics
have been found to have better outcomes at slightly higher A1c than a
similar population of diabetics making taking strict efforts to lower
theirA1c below 7 (or even higher).

But no one is saying that older non-diabetics are better off with a
higher A1c.

Randy

[Randy's Waterloo]

That study by Kevin Hall, MD had fundamental limitations.

It had too few particiants (17) and was too short in duration (8
weeks).

From the above-cited link:

/quote
David Ludwig, MD, a Harvard University researcher who is a prominent
advocate of the carbohydrate-insulin model -- said that the study was
far from definitive, and in fact that the evidence from the study
supports their model.
/end quote

Ms. Ranting Randy <-- the Queen of Misrepresentation

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Op 12-7-2016, heeft Gordon verondersteld :

Except your weight loss.

M.

[Gordon]

Right! And my doctors can't or won't tell me why I've lost weight so
suddenly. It is almost as if I had HIV Aids but I know that isn't
possible. I'm too old for any form of sexual encounter that would get
me exposed to this.

I've tried eating three regular meals and several snacks between meals
but this hasn't produced any changes. Gordon

[Susan]

That site is wrong, and many studies have documented that cardiac
mortality rises at every single point above 4.6%, and precipitously
above 5%:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157837?dopt=Abstract

"HbA(1c) level was not related to CHD risk below a level of 4.6% but was
significantly related to risk above that level"

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=717819


Association of Hemoglobin A1c with Cardiovascular Disease and Mortality
in Adults: The European Prospective Investigation into Cancer in
Norfolk. <http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/141/6/413>Kay-Tee
Khaw, MBBChir FRCP; Nicholas Wareham, MBBS, FRCP; Sheila Bingham, PhD;
Robert Luben, BSc; Ailsa Welch, BSc; and Nicholas Day, PhD./Annals of
Internal Medicine/, 9/21/2004, Vol 141, no 6, 413-420

Here's the summary from that paper's conclusions:

In men and women, the relationship between hemoglobin A1c and
cardiovascular disease (806 events) and between hemoglobin A1c and
all-cause mortality (521 deaths) was continuous and significant
throughout the whole distribution. The relationship was apparent in
persons without known diabetes. Persons with hemoglobin A1c
concentrations less than 5% had the lowest rates of cardiovascular
disease and mortality. An increase in hemoglobin A1c of 1 percentage
point was associated with a relative risk for death from any cause
of 1.24 (95% CI, 1.14 to 1.34; P < 0.001) in men and with a relative
risk of 1.28 (CI, 1.06 to 1.32; P < 0.001) in women. These relative
risks were independent of age, body mass index, waist-to-hip ratio,
systolic blood pressure, serum cholesterol concentration, cigarette
smoking, and history of cardiovascular disease.

[Gordon]

Thanks, Susan. I still have a long way to go before I have this all
figured out. My main questions center around the cause/effect of those
things relating to the problems you list. Does the cause of CVD also
cause the higher A1c readings that seem to be associated with CVD?
Does some other, yet unidentified problem cause both CVD and higher
A1c readings? How much does age cause higher A1c levels? Questions go
on and on but I have not yet garnered enough understanding to write
the bottom line! Gordon

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/13/2016 6:33 PM, Gordon wrote:
> Thanks, Susan. I still have a long way to go before I have this all
> figured out. My main questions center around the cause/effect of those
> things relating to the problems you list. Does the cause of CVD also
> cause the higher A1c readings that seem to be associated with CVD?
> Does some other, yet unidentified problem cause both CVD and higher
> A1c readings? How much does age cause higher A1c levels? Questions go
> on and on but I have not yet garnered enough understanding to write
> the bottom line! Gordon

It's no mystery; the same factors that cause diabetes and diabetes
itself promote CVD and higher mortality. Even in those wrongly called
"pre" or "non" diabetic, even brief excursions above lowest normal
glucose levels predicts CVD and mortality risk elevation.

4.6% is how low you have to go to avoid rising risk, that much has been
published in numerous publications. 5% is the number you really don't
want to go above if you can avoid it. But every small increment along
the way carries higher risk, along the fasting, post meal and HbA1c
spectrum. Your doctor and your web site are both wrong.


Susan

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Susan wrote:
> Gordon wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Susan. I still have a long way to go before I have this all
> > figured out. My main questions center around the cause/effect of those
> > things relating to the problems you list. Does the cause of CVD also
> > cause the higher A1c readings that seem to be associated with CVD?
> > Does some other, yet unidentified problem cause both CVD and higher
> > A1c readings? How much does age cause higher A1c levels? Questions go
> > on and on but I have not yet garnered enough understanding to write
> > the bottom line! Gordon
>
> It's no mystery; the same factors that cause diabetes and diabetes
> itself promote CVD and higher mortality.

Actually, it's simply one factor and that's visceral adipose tissue (VAT).

Moreover, there's only one **healthy** way to lose the disease-causing VAT.

RandyF wrote in part:

> "After the eight-week diet the volunteers returned to normal eating
> but had advice on healthy foods and portion size. Ten of the group
> were retested and seven had stayed free of diabetes."
> ************
> They didn't need drugs and were eating a typical higher carb diet.
>
> Here's the abstract
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27002059
> <snip>
> © 2016 by the American Diabetes Association. Readers may use this
> article as long as the work is properly cited, the use is educational
> and not for profit, and the work is not altered.

Suggested discussion reading:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/B-dJ_iWGRk8/y7Wt5hwlAQAJ


GysdeJongh wrote:
>
> Diabet Med. 2012 Oct 17. doi: 10.1111/dme.12039.
> The 2012 Banting Lecture Reversing the twin cycles of Type 2 diabetes.
>
> It has become widely accepted that type 2 diabetes is inevitably life-long,
> with irreversible and progressive beta cell damage. However, the restoration
> of normal glucose metabolism within days after bariatric surgery in the
> majority of people with type 2 diabetes disproves this concept. There is now
> no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound
> decrease in food intake, and does not relate to any direct surgical effect.
> The Counterpoint study demonstrated that normal glucose levels and normal
> beta cell function could be restored by a very low calorie diet alone. Novel
> magnetic resonance methods were applied to measure intra-organ fat. The
> results showed two different time courses: a) resolution of hepatic insulin
> sensitivity within days along with a rapid fall in liver fat and
> normalisation of fasting glucose levels; and b) return of normal beta cell
> insulin secretion over weeks in step with a fall in pancreas fat. Now that
> it has been possible to observe the pathophysiological events during
> reversal of type 2 diabetes, the reverse time course of events which
> determine the onset of the condition can be identified. The twin cycle
> hypothesis postulates that chronic calorie excess leads to accumulation of
> liver fat with eventual spill over into the pancreas. These self-reinforcing
> cycles between liver and pancreas eventually cause metabolic inhibition of
> insulin secretion after meals and onset of hyperglycaemia. It is now clear
> that Type 2 diabetes is a reversible condition of intra-organ fat excess to
> which some people are more susceptible than others.
> PMID: 23075228

Yes, stopping the causative overeating without harmful undernourishment by holding to the right amount, which is 32 oz of daily food, is the absolutely only **healthy** way to remove the "intra-organ fat excess" ( http://WDJW.net/VAT ) that happens with overeating:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/48e684b2a336961e?

Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman (along with countless others globally --> http://bit.ly/2015GHHS ) are doing is much more sophisticated and smarter:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.support.diet.low-carb/ehvWZrH5Q9U/z0oHiET3Lo0J

and

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/1r72AsO3NuQ/VkYiWMDlLFIJ

**and**

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/OwIa247V2QA/taPvYBATA9oJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/2KcDOWlEcZM/7pDF83wuXwUJ

Don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a http://bit.ly/TerriblyStupid (Mark 9:42) death:

http://bit.ly/BiblicalEsau

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:

http://WDJW.net/Luke2442
which is the absolutely only **healthy** cure for type-2 diabetes

[Gordon]

So, what can I do about my situation? I cannot cut my diet any more.
I'm losing weight at a serious rate. I eat three ordinary size meals
each day then grab some snacks between meals to try to keep my weight
from dropping any more. I am taking one Metformin ER 1,000 mg OSM-TAB
tablet each day, with my evening meal. What should I try to get my
doctor to prescribe, or what can I do without a doctor's prescription
that might help? Gordon

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Gordon wrote:

> Susan wrote:
> > Gordon wrote:
>
> >> Thanks, Susan. I still have a long way to go before I have this all
> >> figured out. My main questions center around the cause/effect of those
> >> things relating to the problems you list. Does the cause of CVD also
> >> cause the higher A1c readings that seem to be associated with CVD?
> >> Does some other, yet unidentified problem cause both CVD and higher
> >> A1c readings? How much does age cause higher A1c levels? Questions go
> >> on and on but I have not yet garnered enough understanding to write
> >> the bottom line! Gordon
> >
> >It's no mystery; the same factors that cause diabetes and diabetes
> >itself promote CVD and higher mortality. Even in those wrongly called
> >"pre" or "non" diabetic, even brief excursions above lowest normal
> >glucose levels predicts CVD and mortality risk elevation.
> >
> >4.6% is how low you have to go to avoid rising risk, that much has been
> >published in numerous publications. 5% is the number you really don't
> >want to go above if you can avoid it. But every small increment along
> >the way carries higher risk, along the fasting, post meal and HbA1c
> >spectrum. Your doctor and your web site are both wrong.
> >
> >
> >Susan
> >
> So, what can I do about my situation? I cannot cut my diet any more.

http://WDJW.net/StopFoodOverdoseNow is actually http://WDJW.net/NotDiet

> I'm losing weight at a serious rate. I eat three ordinary size meals
> each day then grab some snacks between meals to try to keep my weight
> from dropping any more.

Guessing at amount is not knowing amount.

Weighing the meals **and** snack is knowing amount.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://JiL4ever.net/VAT from around the heart

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:

http://JiL4ever.net/Luke2442
which is the absolutely only **healthy** cure for acquired disease

[Francher]

Hello Gordon,
It seems you are in a tough place. Your physician is not recognizing
your extra risk or does not care. You have unexplained weight loss. If
it were me, I would be trying to find a second opinion. I realize with
insurance and all, this may not be possible.

If my wife presented me with your symptoms like yours and a physician
who did not care about her high A1Cs I would be quite alarmed.

My wife's weight did drop to 110 and this was considered too low. Her
physician said it was too low. I went to work making sure she was eating
at least three times a day and eating calorie dense food. That turned
out to be marbled meat and then boiled chicken with the skin still on.

Someone else here I think, recommended you get a doctor's opinion. I
strongly agree. I don't think it should be with a doctor who thinks that
your A1C in the 6's is OK.

Good luck Gordon, try to take care of yourself. Please report back your
progress. Some of us are concerned.

Francher

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Op 14-7-2016, heeft Gordon verondersteld :

Without a doctor's opinion, you can't do much. Maybe you are a
candidate for going on insulin, then you (can) gain weight, but also
then you'd have to see a doctor.
M.

[randyf]

Gordon wrote:
>So, what can I do about my situation?

It's a well know phenomena. Study up.
https://www.google.com/search?q=uknown+weight+loss+in+the+eldery&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS506US506&oq=uknown+weight+loss+in+the+eldery&aqs=chrome..69i57.15671j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Also look into scarponia:
https://www.google.com/search?q=scarponia&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS506US506&oq=scarponia&aqs=chrome..69i57.5671j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=scarponia&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS506US506&oq=scarponia&aqs=chrome..69i57.5671j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=sarcopenia+treatment
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1562S.full

Good luck.

Randy

[F00]

There are at least two types of insulin that can be purchased in the USA
without prescription. Perhaps even more in Canada.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/13/2016 8:27 PM, Gordon wrote:
> So, what can I do about my situation? I cannot cut my diet any more.
> I'm losing weight at a serious rate. I eat three ordinary size meals
> each day then grab some snacks between meals to try to keep my weight
> from dropping any more. I am taking one Metformin ER 1,000 mg OSM-TAB
> tablet each day, with my evening meal. What should I try to get my
> doctor to prescribe, or what can I do without a doctor's prescription
> that might help?

Why are you focused on prescriptions before knowing the cause of the
weight loss?


One possible explanation is lack of adequate insulin production, which,
when it is severe enough, leads to weight loss.

Another is that you may be losing lean body mass and may need to try
eating plenty of animal protein, healthy unpolluted fats and cut carbs.

C peptide testing and fasting insulin level might be helpful here.

Susan

[Gordon]

My doctors confirm, and my blood tests indicate that my insulin level
is very well within the range of normal. My body's cells are insulin
resistant. Is there any "natural" or medically based way to cure this?
Gordon

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/14/2016 12:31 PM, Gordon wrote:
> My doctors confirm, and my blood tests indicate that my insulin level
> is very well within the range of normal. My body's cells are insulin
> resistant. Is there any "natural" or medically based way to cure this?
> Gordon

Yes. Low carbing will usually reverse insulin resistance, as receptors
adapt to the absence of glucose excess. Getting to an A1c in the 5s
would be a goal toward that end.

Your doctor said 7% was a find upper limit for A1c, so we know your
doctor's assurances are baseless and harmful.

Alpha lipoic acid is a great insulin sensitizer without the drawbacks of
metformin. Silymarin reliably lowers post meal glucose taken with meals.

You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.

Susan

[Gordon]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 14:33:41 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 7/14/2016 12:31 PM, Gordon wrote:
>> My doctors confirm, and my blood tests indicate that my insulin level
>> is very well within the range of normal. My body's cells are insulin
>> resistant. Is there any "natural" or medically based way to cure this?
>> Gordon
>
>Yes. Low carbing will usually reverse insulin resistance, as receptors
>adapt to the absence of glucose excess. Getting to an A1c in the 5s
>would be a goal toward that end.
>

One of my main questions is, what causes insulin resistance in the
first place? Is this a genetic flaw or is it some domino effect from
several dietary/exercise/medical drug usage/etc.?

>
>Your doctor said 7% was a find upper limit for A1c, so we know your
>doctor's assurances are baseless and harmful.
>
>Alpha lipoic acid is a great insulin sensitizer without the drawbacks of
>metformin. Silymarin reliably lowers post meal glucose taken with meals.
>

I bought some Alpha Lipoic Acid at the local health food store and
took it for a few months but didn't experience any benefits so I quit
taking it.

>
>You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
>see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.
>
>Susan
>

I do indeed have a thyroid problem. My nodular melanoma oncology
consisted of X Ray therapy to the left side of my neck and this
damaged the left side thyroid. I have been taking one Levothyroxin 125
mcg tablet upon getting out of bed each morning. My blood tests show
my thyroid problem is being controlled very well.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/14/2016 4:29 PM, Gordon wrote:
> I bought some Alpha Lipoic Acid at the local health food store and
> took it for a few months but didn't experience any benefits so I quit
> taking it.

It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably
time released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys,
cause B12 deficiency the way metformin does.
It's also possible that your diabetes isn't related to insulin resistance.

>> You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
>> see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.
>>
>> Susan
>>
> I do indeed have a thyroid problem. My nodular melanoma oncology
> consisted of X Ray therapy to the left side of my neck and this
> damaged the left side thyroid. I have been taking one Levothyroxin 125
> mcg tablet upon getting out of bed each morning. My blood tests show
> my thyroid problem is being controlled very well.

If your doctor is monitoring your TSH but not your free and total T4 and
T3, you may not be benefiting as much as you think from replacement.

Susan

[Gordon]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:38:48 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 7/14/2016 4:29 PM, Gordon wrote:
>> I bought some Alpha Lipoic Acid at the local health food store and
>> took it for a few months but didn't experience any benefits so I quit
>> taking it.
>
>It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably
>time released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys,
>cause B12 deficiency the way metformin does.
>It's also possible that your diabetes isn't related to insulin resistance.
>

My doctors have stated repeatedly that my diabetes is associated with
insulin resistance but I wonder what caused the insulin resistance.
Could this be the side effect of some gut microbiome imbalance? Maybe
my gut is messed up and this is what is also causing my weight loss?
Who knows? Is there any simple and workable process that would restore
my gut microbiome to a healthy, normal state?

>
>>> You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
>>> see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.
>>>
>>> Susan
>>>
>> I do indeed have a thyroid problem. My nodular melanoma oncology
>> consisted of X Ray therapy to the left side of my neck and this
>> damaged the left side thyroid. I have been taking one Levothyroxin 125
>> mcg tablet upon getting out of bed each morning. My blood tests show
>> my thyroid problem is being controlled very well.
>
>If your doctor is monitoring your TSH but not your free and total T4 and
>T3, you may not be benefiting as much as you think from replacement.
>
>Susan
>

My TSH value on 3/4/2016 was 1.08 and the normal range is given as
0.40 to 4.50, so I guess I'm in the norm, here. I didn't find anything
on my chart that showed my T3 or T4. Is there any other names that
this could be listed as? I think my doctor does my thyroid tests using
urine samples. If so this wouldn't show on my blood test results
chart. Gordon

[Maya Zuiderweg]

F00 drukte met precisie uit :

How peculiar!
Is there also self medication known with insulin?

M.

[Does]

Susan made claims about Alpha Lipoic Acid relative to metformin:

It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably time
released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys, cause B12
deficiency the way metformin does.

Web sources to confirm this if you please.

When requested in past there were none forthcoming.

The only item with any credability is the b12, and it occurs in only some
people and is easily resolved.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Gordon wrote:

> Susan wrote:
> > Gordon wrote:
>
> >> I bought some Alpha Lipoic Acid at the local health food store and
> >> took it for a few months but didn't experience any benefits so I quit
> >> taking it.
> >
> >It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably
> >time released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys,
> >cause B12 deficiency the way metformin does.
> >It's also possible that your diabetes isn't related to insulin resistance.
>
> My doctors have stated repeatedly that my diabetes is associated with
> insulin resistance but I wonder what caused the insulin resistance.

What causes insulin resistance is visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

http://WDJW.net/VAT

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://JiL4ever.net/VAT from around the heart

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://JiL4ever.net/Luke2442

which is the absolutely only **healthy** cure for insulin resistance

[F00]

I was given the general rules about how to use insulin. Since then I,
like all other insulin dependent diabetics, have been self-medicating
by making the periodic decisions on how often and how much to administer
to myself.

Your question sounds clear, although it might not be. "Self medication"
is a term usually applied to those who abuse various substances, leaving
your intentions in this discussion unclear.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/14/2016 7:41 PM, Gordon wrote:
> My doctors have stated repeatedly that my diabetes is associated with
> insulin resistance but I wonder what caused the insulin resistance.

HIgh carb diets promote insulin resistance, and genetics can play a
role, too.

Your doctors have told you that your insulin levels are fine, but you
are IR? That's conflicting information.

> Could this be the side effect of some gut microbiome imbalance? Maybe
> my gut is messed up and this is what is also causing my weight loss?
> Who knows? Is there any simple and workable process that would restore
> my gut microbiome to a healthy, normal state?

If you have gut dysfunction, try some probiotics and fermented foods and
cut out sugars and starches to you don't overfeed sugars to bad microbes.

>> >
>>>> >>>You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
>>>> >>>see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Susan
>>>> >>>
>>> >>I do indeed have a thyroid problem. My nodular melanoma oncology
>>> >>consisted of X Ray therapy to the left side of my neck and this
>>> >>damaged the left side thyroid. I have been taking one Levothyroxin 125
>>> >>mcg tablet upon getting out of bed each morning. My blood tests show
>>> >>my thyroid problem is being controlled very well.
>> >
>> >If your doctor is monitoring your TSH but not your free and total T4 and
>> >T3, you may not be benefiting as much as you think from replacement.
>> >
>> >Susan
>> >
> My TSH value on 3/4/2016 was 1.08 and the normal range is given as
> 0.40 to 4.50, so I guess I'm in the norm, here. I didn't find anything
> on my chart that showed my T3 or T4. Is there any other names that
> this could be listed as? I think my doctor does my thyroid tests using
> urine samples. If so this wouldn't show on my blood test results
> chart. Gordon

TSH is a worthless test for monitoring thyroid function for a variety of
reasons. It can be low due to pituitary disorder (it's a pituitary
hormone) or to high T4 and you can still have deficiency in active T3
thyroid.

Urine testing for thyroid would be a very odd choice.


Susan

[Gordon]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 09:31:30 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 7/14/2016 7:41 PM, Gordon wrote:
>> My doctors have stated repeatedly that my diabetes is associated with
>> insulin resistance but I wonder what caused the insulin resistance.
> HIgh carb diets promote insulin resistance, and genetics can play a
>role, too.
>

I agree, but I have been on a low carb diet for the past few years.

>
>Your doctors have told you that your insulin levels are fine, but you
>are IR? That's conflicting information.
>

I don't follow you, here. My pancreas seems to produce plenty of
insulin but my body's cells won't respond to insulin, and won't let it
bring glucose into the cells.

>
>> Could this be the side effect of some gut microbiome imbalance? Maybe
>> my gut is messed up and this is what is also causing my weight loss?
>> Who knows? Is there any simple and workable process that would restore
>> my gut microbiome to a healthy, normal state?
>
>If you have gut dysfunction, try some probiotics and fermented foods and
>cut out sugars and starches to you don't overfeed sugars to bad microbes.
>

I'm not at all sure what is the problem but I did go to the local
health food store this morning and bought some organic yogurt. I will
eat some of this with my meals for a few days and see if there is any
indication of improvement.

>
>>> >
>>>>> >>>You could be hyperthyroid, too. Worth testing, and asking for an exam to
>>>>> >>>see if a thyroid nodule is palpable.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Susan
>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>I do indeed have a thyroid problem. My nodular melanoma oncology
>>>> >>consisted of X Ray therapy to the left side of my neck and this
>>>> >>damaged the left side thyroid. I have been taking one Levothyroxin 125
>>>> >>mcg tablet upon getting out of bed each morning. My blood tests show
>>>> >>my thyroid problem is being controlled very well.
>>> >
>>> >If your doctor is monitoring your TSH but not your free and total T4 and
>>> >T3, you may not be benefiting as much as you think from replacement.
>>> >
>>> >Susan
>>> >
>> My TSH value on 3/4/2016 was 1.08 and the normal range is given as
>> 0.40 to 4.50, so I guess I'm in the norm, here. I didn't find anything
>> on my chart that showed my T3 or T4. Is there any other names that
>> this could be listed as? I think my doctor does my thyroid tests using
>> urine samples. If so this wouldn't show on my blood test results
>> chart. Gordon
>
>TSH is a worthless test for monitoring thyroid function for a variety of
>reasons. It can be low due to pituitary disorder (it's a pituitary
>hormone) or to high T4 and you can still have deficiency in active T3
>thyroid.
>
>Urine testing for thyroid would be a very odd choice.
>
>
>Susan
>

What should I ask my doctors to use to test my thyroid function?

[Randy's Waterloo]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:34:07 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 09:31:30 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
>>On 7/14/2016 7:41 PM, Gordon wrote:
>>> My doctors have stated repeatedly that my diabetes is associated with
>>> insulin resistance but I wonder what caused the insulin resistance.
>> HIgh carb diets promote insulin resistance, and genetics can play a
>>role, too.
>>
>I agree, but I have been on a low carb diet for the past few years.
>>
>>Your doctors have told you that your insulin levels are fine, but you
>>are IR? That's conflicting information.
>>
>I don't follow you, here. My pancreas seems to produce plenty of
>insulin but my body's cells won't respond to insulin, and won't let it
>bring glucose into the cells.
>>
>>> Could this be the side effect of some gut microbiome imbalance? Maybe
>>> my gut is messed up and this is what is also causing my weight loss?
>>> Who knows? Is there any simple and workable process that would restore
>>> my gut microbiome to a healthy, normal state?
>>
>>If you have gut dysfunction, try some probiotics and fermented foods and
>>cut out sugars and starches to you don't overfeed sugars to bad microbes.
>>
>I'm not at all sure what is the problem but I did go to the local
>health food store this morning and bought some organic yogurt. I will
>eat some of this with my meals for a few days and see if there is any
>indication of improvement.

What brand was the yogurt, if you don't mind my asking?

[Gordon]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 13:31:36 -0400, Randy's Waterloo <du...@welly.uk>

The label reads:

White Mountain
Austin, Texas
Bulgarian Yogurt
Probiotic

Organic Grade A Pasteurized Whole Milk

Live Cultures
Acidophilus
Bulgaricus
Thermophilus
Bifidum

And it states that the components are organically grown.

Gordon

[Doc]

>What causes insulin resistance is visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

But only with those having a genetic disposition for diabetes. Some 70
percent of obese people don't become diabetic.

Here is a general purpose article discussing it, a type 1 diabetic can
become resistant also byw :

Understanding Insulin Resistance:

http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2011/jun/understanding-insulin-resistance.html

[Randy's Waterloo]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:52:44 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

Thanks for your reply and that info.

[Gordon]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:58:21 -0400, Randy's Waterloo <du...@welly.uk>

Randy, I have no idea as to whether or not this yogurt will help me
with my diabetes related problems. It may, and I think it is worth
exploring. I would like to know the results others may have achieved
when using this kind of organic, all natural yogurt.

I am hoping this will cause my insulin resistance to return to a
normal or near normal state. It is the acidophilus that produces
acetate in the gut then this acetate moves into the blood and lymph
systems where it may cause a beneficial change in my insulin
resistance. It seems to work with lab mice, but I don't think I am a
mouse, although my wife sometimes thinks I am a rat! Gordon

[Randy's Waterloo]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:08:13 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

It's worth a try.

Apart from the insulin resistance, there are claims that those who
regularly ingested organic yogurt lived healthier and longer lives.

[randyf]

>>>White Mountain
>>>Austin, Texas
>>>Bulgarian Yogurt
>>>Probiotic
>>>
>>>Organic Grade A Pasteurized Whole Milk
>>>
>>>Live Cultures
>>>Acidophilus
>>>Bulgaricus
>>>Thermophilus
>>>Bifidum
>>>
>>>And it states that the components are organically grown.
>>
>>Thanks for your reply and that info.

>Randy, I have no idea as to whether or not this yogurt will help me
>with my diabetes related problems. It may, and I think it is worth
>exploring. I would like to know the results others may have achieved
>when using this kind of organic, all natural yogurt.

Gordon -
This is not * Randy's Waterloo=clay=bayt=Clay= Sentient Fungus*

And:
One thing I do know is that Kefir another mik based product, is far
superior to yogurt
1.Good bacteria count is much much higher
2. More diverse beneficial types of bacteria.


And - If decreasing insulin sensitivity was as simple as eating this
or that food there would be far fewer members here.

Randy

[Gordon]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:11:56 -0400, Randy's Waterloo <du...@welly.uk>

I've read this too and became interested in the probability that
organic yogurt could help me with my insulin resistance. I still don't
know what causes insulin resistance. Is it some chemical flaw on the
insulin molecules or is it something associated with the body's cells
where insulin normally transports glucose into the cells for use as
energy. Gordon

[Susan]

On 7/15/2016 12:34 PM, Gordon wrote:
> I agree, but I have been on a low carb diet for the past few years.

Can you describe your meals? What % of your calories come from carbs,
not net carbs, total carbs.

>> >
>> >Your doctors have told you that your insulin levels are fine, but you
>> >are IR? That's conflicting information.
>> >
> I don't follow you, here. My pancreas seems to produce plenty of
> insulin but my body's cells won't respond to insulin, and won't let it
> bring glucose into the cells.

You said they told you your insulin levels were fine. People who are IR
have hyperinsulinemia. Maybe you meant production, not levels?

>> >
>>> >>Could this be the side effect of some gut microbiome imbalance? Maybe
>>> >>my gut is messed up and this is what is also causing my weight loss?
>>> >>Who knows? Is there any simple and workable process that would restore
>>> >>my gut microbiome to a healthy, normal state?
>> >
>> >If you have gut dysfunction, try some probiotics and fermented foods and
>> >cut out sugars and starches to you don't overfeed sugars to bad microbes.
>> >
> I'm not at all sure what is the problem but I did go to the local
> health food store this morning and bought some organic yogurt. I will
> eat some of this with my meals for a few days and see if there is any
> indication of improvement.

Not very useful for any kind of serious gut dysfunction. In terms of
the strains, and the potency.

>>> >> >
>>> >>My TSH value on 3/4/2016 was 1.08 and the normal range is given as
>>> >>0.40 to 4.50, so I guess I'm in the norm, here. I didn't find anything
>>> >>on my chart that showed my T3 or T4. Is there any other names that
>>> >>this could be listed as? I think my doctor does my thyroid tests using
>>> >>urine samples. If so this wouldn't show on my blood test results
>>> >>chart. Gordon
>> >
>> >TSH is a worthless test for monitoring thyroid function for a variety of
>> >reasons. It can be low due to pituitary disorder (it's a pituitary
>> >hormone) or to high T4 and you can still have deficiency in active T3
>> >thyroid.
>> >
>> >Urine testing for thyroid would be a very odd choice.
>> >
>> >
>> >Susan
>> >
> What should I ask my doctors to use to test my thyroid function?

Free and total T4 and T3, reverse T3, thyroid binding globulin (if it's
high, it inactivates active hormone)

You might want to ask for selenoenzyme testing; it's the enzyme from
selenium used to convert inactive T4 like your meds into active T3.


Susan

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/15/2016 1:52 PM, Gordon wrote:
> Live Cultures
> Acidophilus
> Bulgaricus
> Thermophilus
> Bifidum

Of these, the only one I would take/consume is the bifidum.


Susan

[W. Baker]

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

: On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:56:28 +0200, Maya Zuiderweg
: >>>> My thinking is that my insulin resistance inhibits the body cells from
: >>>> taking glucose in and storing it as fat. I suppose this un-stored
: >>>> glucose is flushed out by my kidneys and the result is that I slowly
: >>>> loose weight.
: >>>>
: >>>> Does anyone here have any suggestions as to how I could re-gain some
: >>>> of this lost weight without compromising my diabetes situation?
: >>>>
: >>>> Thanks, Gordon
: >>>
: >>> Have you considered the use of insulin?
: >>> M.
: >>>
: >> Maya, I am T2 or maybe still pre-diabetic T2. My doctors have told me
: >> that my insulin level is very good and stable but it is insulin
: >> resistance that is causing my problems. Gordon
: >
I don't understand your beingconsidered pre-diabetic. It sounds like you
are a type 1 with insulin resistance. Some peole are so resistant tatthey
do take insulin too. That 7% Aic just is nt a pre-diabetic level. I am
not saying to try it, but many tye 2s do use it. I was put on it over 30
years ago when first diagnosed by a Gp. when I later saw an endo he said
he never would have startedme on insulin, but since it ws sworking andI
was losing weight(I finally lost 70lbs) he kept meonit util I lost enough
weight to stop all medication, at which time he tapered me off it.

Wendy

[Maya Zuiderweg]

F00 beweerde :

Clarification: indeed, I meant DIY users of insulin - without rules
given.
It seems that e.g. in the world of body building insulin is used.
M.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Gordon wrote:

> I've read this too and became interested in the probability that
> organic yogurt could help me with my insulin resistance. I still don't
> know what causes insulin resistance.

Again, what causes insulin resistance is visceral adipose tissue (VAT):

http://WDJW.net/VAT

All, including those who are non-obese, who have VAT also have insulin resistance (i.e. needing more insulin to avoid fasting hyperglycemia) which in the worst case scenario is frank type-2 diabetes (i.e. fasting hyperglycemia in the setting of worsening beta-cell insufficiency).

Only those of us with no VAT, as evident by undetectable hsCRP (a sensitive marker of the inflammation caused by VAT), have normal levels of insulin in the setting of normal fasting glucose to show that we don't have insulin resistance:

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Bottom line:

What causes insulin resistance is visceral adipose tissue (VAT)

Those who say/write otherwise unwittingly prove they have VAT because VAT also causes the dementia that would explain their inability to comprehend the above.

[Don Roberto]

On 7/11/2016 6:56 AM, F00 wrote:
> (On 7/10/2016 5:58 PM, FOO wrote:)
>
> That should be Fake-FOO
>
> Now Francher/Michael-and all those psuedo identities, are trying to be
> me again!
>

Naah, he just accidentally posted from the "wrong" address. Inevitable
when you use more than one nym.
But the problem here isn't the scumbag posting via all those pseudo
identities, but the other posters here who either keep mum about his
pathetic disruptive drivel or even seriously debate him and accept his
"medical advice", although it should be obvious to anyone with half a
brain that the clown is as phony as it gets. I reckon there are a lot of
lonely folks here who'll put up with anything just to have someone to
talk to.

Don Roberto


> WTF is wrong with you, jackass?
>
>
>> On 7/10/2016 5:43 PM, Gordon wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:03:35 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/9/2016 11:02 PM, Henry Mydlarz wrote:
>>>>> "Gordon" <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:0ft2ob9j18992p9ps...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> I was diagnosed T2 pre-diabetic about 8 years ago. I have been very
>>>>>> careful with my diet and exercise and generally keep my BG readings
>>>>>> within an acceptable range. My blood tests consistently show my A1c <
>>>>>> 7.0% and my doctor says this is pretty good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the years I've lost weight to the point that I am now rail thin.
>>>>>> I am a tall white male in my later years and I have dropped from 240
>>>>>> pounds a few years ago around 170 pounds, presently. My doctors don't
>>>>>> seem to think this is a problem and offer no suggestions as to how I
>>>>>> could re-gain some of this lost weight.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> My thinking is that my insulin resistance inhibits the body cells
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> taking glucose in and storing it as fat. I suppose this un-stored
>>>>>> glucose is flushed out by my kidneys and the result is that I slowly
>>>>>> loose weight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone here have any suggestions as to how I could re-gain some
>>>>>> of this lost weight without compromising my diabetes situation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Gordon
>>>>>

>>>>> As an aside, Gordon, I suggest you get your HbA1c way lower than 7%
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt too many can get is as low as Francher's, but I suggest
>>>>> something
>>>>> in-between.
>>>>>
>>>>> My last endo suggested I bring my HbA1c <<<up>>> to 7% - I won't be
>>>>> calling
>>>>> on her again...
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't listen to doctors who have the attitude "near enough is good
>>>>> enough"
>>>>>
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking the same thing about his A1C Henry. It should be lower
>>>> than 7. He can get it as low as mine. Gordon, if you want to, I can
>>>> share the foods we have discovered that do not raise BG numbers. There
>>>> are a lot of foods available to bring your numbers at least down to 5
>>>> point something and if you get aggressive with it as I have, even a
>>>> touch below 5.
>>>>
>>>> Francher
>>>>
>>> Francher, I received your e-mail with the food information. I printed
>>> this out and gave it to my wife. She is the one in charge of food
>>> purchases and preparation, here. I'll see how these items work out
>>> with me. Thanks, Gordon
>>>
>>
>> OK Gordon,
>>
>> For the low carb spaghetti I suggest very low carb sauce. You can buy it
>> at most big food markets. However, the lower the carb count, the higher
>> the price. If you are willing and able to pay for it, you can put meat
>> together with a very low carb sauce and it is a guilt free spaghetti
>> meal. The low carb bread mix is prepared here by throwing it in a bread
>> machine. You can make toasted cheese sandwiches to go with the
>> spaghetti. My wife also has a recipe for almost carb free pancakes for
>> breakfast. I will look for that recipe in Word and send it to you.
>>
>> Francher
>

[Don Roberto]

On 7/14/2016 5:36 PM, Does wrote:
> Susan made claims about Alpha Lipoic Acid relative to metformin:
>
> It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably time
> released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys, cause B12
> deficiency the way metformin does.
>
> Web sources to confirm this if you please.
>
> When requested in past there were none forthcoming.
>

Well, "Dr. Susan" being the ultimate authority on anything she blesses
all lesser beings with her posts - what do you expect?


Don Roberto
-------------------------------
Kann ein Troll schwimmen?
Im Prinzip ja, er ist ja hohl.
Trotzdem wird er untergehen,
weil er nicht ganz dicht ist.
--Radio Eriwan

[Randy's Waterloo]

How would you isolate bifidum from a serving of yogurt?

[Ozlover]

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:
[...]
> To try to clear things up a bit, my last Hemoglobin A1c test, done on
> March 4, 2016, was 6.6%. My doctor reviewed this and pointed out that
> as long as my A1c reading is less than 7.0 I and I keep my
> diet/exercise under control I am not in trouble. Gordon

If you don't mind, how old are you? Some docs use higher-than-normal
HbA1c limits/targets for old(er) people.

As to you being pre-diabetic, that's BS and your doctor knows and
should tell you. You're diabetic, period. Which exact type and which
course of action is another matter.

So you have at least four problems, your weight loss, being diabetic,
your doctor and - last but not least - paying any attention to our
resident quack 'Dr.' Susan.

--
Frank Slootweg

[Ozlover]

Does wrote:
>
> Susan made claims about Alpha Lipoic Acid relative to metformin:
>
> It works as well as metformin does, but at very high doses, preferably time
> released due to short half life. Doesn't damage liver, kidneys, cause B12
> deficiency the way metformin does.
>
> Web sources to confirm this if you please.

The only possible web source would be a Google Groups (et al) copy of
her post(s) and she tries to prevent such copies.

> When requested in past there were none forthcoming.

You don't say!

> The only item with any credability is the b12, and it occurs in only some
> people and is easily resolved.

Ding, ding, we *have* a winner!

--
Frank Slootweg

[F00]

Not the only one.

[Don Roberto]

There may be another one: Gorden is heavily vested in threads like "A
personal relationship with Jesus"

Don Roberto