"He who says, 'I cast no shadow,' is the shadow."

[Henosis Sage]

DARAEL HIGHBORN...: "He who says, 'I cast no shadow,' is the shadow."
1 week 35 min ago


TEXT EXTRACTS
Thurs., Aug. 10, 1972

An Occult Leader Named Twitchell
(1970 Interview) By JOHN GODWIN

If the sanctification of Edgar Cayce is under way, that of Paul Twitchell may be said to
be nearing completion. The significant difference lies in the fact that Cayce is dead and
Twitchell very much alive.

The legendry and lore span around him goes considerably beyond the mere walking-on-water
stage. According to a typewritten article sent to me by the secretary of his organization
there is a "raging controversy going on as to whether or not Twitchell has replaced the
eminent figures of religion, Buddha, Christ, Moses, St. Paul of Christian fame and
Mohammed."

The article, written by one James Walker, also has it:

- That casts no shadow when he walks in the sun and many times no footprints.


[...]

At the conclusion of our talk Paul Twitchell escorted me out into the white California
sunshine. He cast a clearly discernible shadow. I can't vouch for footprints..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdnJkUFNQNEJ6aTg/view?usp=sharing


John Godwin, an Australian journalist, travelled to the US during
1970 to interview several new movement leaders of the day. This
is a chapter from his 1972 book "Occult America",

"James Walker" was one of several pen-names / nyms used by Paul Twitchell who wrote the content.

As were the other authors quoted in this article: Charles Daniel and a third author Charles Walters. May have a list of all somewhere. can't recall now.

oh well.

"He who says, 'I cast no shadow,' is the shadow."

Not a bad line, I hadn't heard that until today. from the LFN site. Brilliant. :-)

I will go much easier on them from now on for this and realizing there's not
much people can do when they're being misled. It's only human to imagine the best.

[Kinpa]

You are hilarious, as always! Be sure to have a wonderful day too!

[Henosis Sage]

---

A little bit of Eckankar History including post-Paul Twitchell.

Paul Twitchell as Self-described New Age Messiah - with References
August 2002 on a.r.e Doug M said:
"Doug Marman" <d.ma...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<TRF69.35098
I also find it curious that you would use the word, Messiah, when referring
to Paul, even calling him a "self-described Messiah", when in fact Paul
never, to my knowledge, referred to himself as a Messiah, and I can't
imagine himself referring to himself that way. Of course, I could be wrong,
and if you show me a quote, I'll be glad to admit my error. However, I don't
know of any ECKists who would think of Paul that way.

Joe replies:
See Paulji's early book ALL ABOUT ECK. The reference is there.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/W2p3rgx6Sv8/Sj2bcqnExCoJ

[ Doug never acknowledges this reply by Joe. ]
=== === ===

REFERENCES INCLUDE:
ALL ABOUT ECK - 1968

Is the New Age Messiah in Our Midst?

"Certain factors and events which are coming about somewhat prove that
we are blessed with his presence."
"The ancient one, the agent of God, whom we call the Messias (sic),
or the Godman, appears in the world with every new age. Now he has
appeared with the age-old teachings, ECK, which will give the
human race a spiritual boost, taking many over the crises into the
realm of God."
"He is an Occidental who shall not sit in the lotus position, but
will occupy a straight chair and put his feet on the floor. Many
have claimed they were the Messias (sic), but the proof is not in
evidence. The deliverance of the universal world message must be
an age-old teaching."

online ref:
http://selfdefinition.org/radha-soami/Paul%20Twitchell%20-%20All%20About%20ECK.pdf last chapter.

Paul's Predictions for 1969
1969-05 Search Magazine - Twitchell Predicts the Future by James Walker.pdf

"It will be found that the assassination of MLK was part of a Red Plot
to put race against race and create a wider division between the two
races."
"Castro will gradually lose power and eventually be removed from
office during the year ..."

9. One of the greatest spiritual
books to be published will be the
"Tiger's Fang". The Sale of this
book will outsell any other book
in this Same field during the next
decade.

14. The world will Wake up to
find that ECK is the leading spiritual
body today. That it is making
in roads in church memberships
and other religious bodies throughout
the world.

AND ..
" 23. A new world spiritual
leader will be acclaimed in the
summer months. This time he will
be an Occidental. Many will believe
that he is the new messiah of the
age. His age although unknown he
will appear to be a man in his latter
thirties."

Extracts from original Magazine Scan: see pages 45-48
---

Well, who could this man in his late 30's about to be thought of as
the Messiah actually be?

from 1967-11 Search Magazine - I Found God through a Living Adept by
[PT pseudo Jessica Walker].pdf

" He is said to be able to be in all
places simultaneously; and is
immune to disease."
" He has amazing blue eyes and
appears to be in his late thirties.
He isn't at all concerned with what
others say about him. "

This is so much like a PT article it IS, and not by a Jessica Walker.
Who ever she is, if she does exist, certainly she never wrote this
article. Paul did. :)

And all of these things are arranged, written by, and approved of by
Paul Twitchell.

To the day he died he was lying about his life, and Sudar Singh,
and all that formed the teaching of Eckankar at that time.

And Paul was willing to do and say anything it appears, no matter how
untrue or false or misleading to the "winning converts and changing
the consciousness of his congregation" to believe he was the New Age
Messiah, amongst other things.

Yet in 2002, *the modern authority* on Paul Twitchell and Eckankar
teachings, Doug Marman, had NO IDEA that Paul had ever used the
term * New Age Messiah * in talking about himself; and a 30 something
messiah at that; in his non-stop self-promotions and his writings as
the evidence clearly shows.

So what else does Doug also not remember or got wrong in the process
of his 1986 to 2007 argument with David Lane? A Lot! :)

---

and so "Jessica Walker", another pen name for Twitchell

We'll skip the Pulp Fiction author pen names for now to only look at the
Eckankar period 1966 to 1971.

Now the following Pseudonyms were used by Mr Twitchell:
Miss Ann Atkinson, Eckankar Secretary (a ref to Gail's maiden name)
Jessica L Walker
Jessica Walker
James Walker
Daniel Curry
Jack Jarvis (real SP-I Journalist but Twitchell "penned the '63 article" imho)
Mrs Doris Atkins (busy "lady" in letters to The Editor)

The following are not typical pen names or author pseudonyms, but it amounts to
the very same thing in practice.

We should all know by now this very long list of
Names for the LITERARY DEVICES used to PAPER OVER SYSTEMIC PLAGIARISM includes:
Sri Fubbi Quantz (Both SKS books)
Rebazar Tarzs (aka Rebezar Tarzu and Tarazu)
Rumi (TTF)
Shams-i-Tabrizi (TTF)
Yaubl Sacabi (aka Socabi & Sucabi)
Gopal Das
Sudar Singh (of course)
and on and on that goes.

Here is a great example of three of Twitchell split personalities saying the
exact same thing on the same subject on three separate occasions.

Using the RS Mat Prakash (1897) Vibratory Motion - Plagiarism by Twitchell
speaks the very same words by Rebazar Tarzs, Gopal Das and Paul Twitchell
see quotes: http://goo.gl/PyUZ4r

or DWTM vs Radha Soami Mat Prakash (1897) Haanel Plagiarisms in by Mr Twitchell
http://goo.gl/wuJZwZ out comes Eck masters speaking ....

[Kinpa]

Nothing new to offer? Why am I not surprised??

[Kinpa]

Perhaps because it is from the person who originally said that he cast no shadow!

[Henosis Sage]

That's a play on Effie Dorothy Twitchell making "Doris", and Gail Atkinson
shortened to "Atkins". There are many articles by "Doris Atkins" and it's
obviously Twitchell's writing.

There's nothing wrong in using "literary devices" when used in novels and fictional
works, and people know that's what they are. Fictional characters may or may not reflect
who the real life person being referred to actually is.

It's common to bring together 3 different characteristics from 3 different people,
and then blend that all into one person in a screen play or novel. that's a "literary
device" too.

Making up out of thin air several superior beings to speak the copied plagiarized words
of other people, groups, paths and philosophies and then to claim those fictional characters
dictated and taught "yourself" all these wondrous teachings in your apartment
is quite
an amazing thing to claim as being real and true.

I think it is pretty funny when Twitchell uses the RS Mat Prakash (from 1897)
"Vibratory Motion" verbatim to speak the very same words by Rebazar Tarzs and
Gopal Das in THE SAME BOOK ... and by "Paul Twitchell" again in another book;
see quotes: http://goo.gl/PyUZ4r

But so said the New Age Messiah, the 'new messia' of the age in 1968-69-70 Twitchell !!!

ALL ABOUT ECK - 1968
Is the New Age Messiah in Our Midst?
"Certain factors and events which are coming about somewhat prove that
we are blessed with his presence."

"The ancient one, the agent of God, whom we call the Messias (sic),
or the Godman, appears in the world with every new age. Now he has
appeared with the age-old teachings, ECK, which will give the
human race a spiritual boost, taking many over the crises into the
realm of God."

"He is an Occidental who shall not sit in the lotus position, but
will occupy a straight chair and put his feet on the floor. Many
have claimed they were the Messias (sic), but the proof is not in
evidence."

Yes where's the PROOF? There is no evidence for these others being the
Messiah~!!! Haha! See, NO Proof! So it must be Twitchell. :-)

Of course, I could be wrong,
and if you show me a quote, I'll be glad to admit my error. However, I don't
know of any ECKists who would think of Paul that way.

Joe replies:
See Paulji's early book ALL ABOUT ECK. The reference is there.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/W2p3rgx6Sv8/Sj2bcqnExCoJ

Doug never acknowledges this reply by Joe. He does that a lot - Marman just
runs away when confronted with FACTS that counter his BELIEFS and ASS-UMPTIONS.

Such as the 1936 who's who in kentucky, and that twitchell submitted that info
himself on the Form used for such self-submissions that were invited by the Publishers. The wrong info in that entry were by Twitchell himself such as the ATHS
graduation date, and vague years for College, but born in 1908 which is when he
believed he was born. and the 22nd because that was the date his b'day was
celebrated. and that neither Paul or his siblings have Birth Registry Records
from the year they were born.

Such as his egregious errors about Kirpal Singh and Ruhani article, even after
being told several times, that kirpal was NOT speaking about twitchell there.

That he'd not seen any plagiarism in DWTM and saw that as the best example of RT teaching Paul and he typing it up those 'dialogues' as best he could ....

and then there's things like this, for those who see marman as an authority:

About Graham F's journal ... via Ford J. (but think Twitchell as reading )

" he just told us that his earlier experiences weren't real after all,
but they were just given to him this way because he could accept them that way.
In other words, they were given in the form his imagination was expecting."

"He is admitting his experiences aren't real, himself. But this undermines his
whole journal. Why should we now at the end imagine that his experiences are
now real, when he admits they weren't in the beginning, even though he thought
that they were?

"Also, if it was so terrible for THEM to tell him the truth in the beginning,
since he needed to be prepared for it, then why is he telling the truth to the
world? Shouldn't the world be prepared for it?

"As I read it, Graham has changed what he believes in as the journal goes along,
and his experiences change along with what he believes. He realizes that he no
longer believes his earlier experiences were true. He no longer believes any of
it. So now he is having an experience where it is explained to him that yes,
they were not true, but he was given these false experiences to help prepare
him for the truth.

"This seems dishonest to me. I don't know of any inner masters I have met who
would do anything like this. How could you ever trust them if they did? How can
you trust Graham's "voice of God" since it has admitted giving him false
truths?

"I can see inner teachers pointing out to us that it was our own imagination at
work that caused us to see things in ways that were not true. But I don't see
why any true inner teachers would intentionally give us false experiences to
prepare us for something later on."


from 2004 post Dialogues, pre-TWT
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/BrMdjOdqv8o/Hm579QzgUCgJ

So much of what Graham wrote sounded like inner beings coming to him and
telling him what was true or false. This is a very low level experience and not
even close to Self-Realization and God-Realization.

Graham even at one point is listening to Sugmad talking to him. We all know
that Sugmad does not speak to us in words or even in thoughts, so what do you
make of that?

and
"By the way, I believe the fact that Graham was given the spiritual name, Phoo
Lin, which sounds like Foolin' in his own english language, is a sign of what
he is really experiencing. Comparing what Wah Z means in swahili is not the
same thing, since english is Graham's language and thus the word Foolin' means
exactly that to him. What it means in his own language is what matters."

Doug was always a generous guy with advice of how to interpret one's own
experiences, and how much one might share about them in a 'published journal'

"Yet, Graham stressed that what
came through from Chungchok was new and for the most part outside of his
knowledge of Eckankar."

I think Ford asked a good question here, but Graham's answer shows that his
experiences were falling right in line with his changed feelings and thoughts.

I think that people will believe these things if they want to, and there is
nothing wrong with that. But this doesn't mean he was having experiences from
the Silent Ones telling him great truths that would be of value to all ECKists.

In other words, no one should take those experiences to mean anything.

And yes, I agree, we should treat the experiences of the Masters the same way"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/BrMdjOdqv8o/RMSBrguHvF8J

..... we should treat the experiences of the Masters the same way!!!!

----

1971-09-16 DOBTLEM Part Two - Pages 133-139
"The Last Words of Sri Paul Twitchell in Cincinnati"

When the Living ECK Master of the time, Sri Paul Twitchell (Peddar Zaskq) met in Cincinnati, Ohio, September 16, 1971, with a few Initiates in ECKANKAR, the private, informal meeting was recorded on tape. Little did these Initiates know that within hours after their meeting, Paul would leave the physical realm. BB

September 16, 1971
PT: On the other hand, we've had one problem ever since we've been in this work and that is getting people on the right track to talk about the right things and do the right things. You follow?
It's easier to start them from the beginning and say "Here, do it this way," than it is for them to get it out and then have to come back and repeat, and do everything, and try to straighten it out.
It doesn't work, see? Because the impression is already out there.
Now, a lot of the impressions that I first set out in my first work, I'm having to go back and redo these things and try to correct them.
And I'm like the fellow who felt his way along in a college course and they told him he had to write a book in order to keep in the work, and he didn't know what to say and he had to go, and he had to do something, and when he did, he got it all wrong.
And by getting it all wrong, ten years from there, he had to go back and correct his book and rewrite it, and nobody believed him because they were believing the first impression of what he made.
[...]
It's coming through-the whole history of ECK is coming through now in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, and this is where all you people are going to be at an advantage because you've been at a disadvantage before.
When somebody asks you about the background of ECKANKAR, you never knew what to say, so now you're going to have the advantage of it.
'Cause with all of that, see, I write books in series. I have four books that are finished now; well, the Shariyat is a continued writing, but I've got three books actually.
In my next series, I'm taking up the MAHANTA and all the history of the MAHANTA back to the beginning, so you people will have something you can go by.
You won't flounder around like this fellow floundered around. He didn't know what to say; nobody told him, and he just took what he thought was being said, see?
I don't like for people to have to go out and do their own research.
end quote


-----

Note from 1970-1971 DOBTLEM Part Four - Pages 238-257

"This first ECK Master was Ramaj, the founder of the Ancient Order of the Vairagi which is the secret brotherhood of the ECK Masters. It is said that out of his teachings have come the many religions of the world, e.g., Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Shintoism, Moslem, to name a few.
His teachings were taken from the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the sacred scriptures of the heavenly worlds. To the elective few came the religious books of the various orthodox faiths." Mystic World article by Paul Twitchell April-May-June 1971

Meaning that the Rama of ECKANKAR, is not the same one as the Hindu Rama.

It's the Edourd Schure "Rama" that Twitchell is referring to.

and every HI would know that by the time they're a HI after 20-25 years ..
eckankar 101 yeah?

[Etznab]

"[...] Graham even at one point is listening to Sugmad talking to him. We all know that Sugmad does not speak to us in words or even in thoughts, so what do you make of that? [... .]"

Question. Didn't Paul Twitchell have Sugmad and other beings talking to him in The Tiger's Fang, Dialogues With The Master, etc.? Not to mention Eck Masters (that some have argued were inner experiences and not outer dictations), but now there are so many copied and plagiarized passages coming up?

Sounds like a double standard Doug was using. As if fiction were O.K. so long as it was fiction "riding for the Eck brand".

References: see The Tiger's Fang chapter called The Spiritual Malignancy. Ask yourself who, or what was speaking to Paul Twitchell there. In a supposedly earlier writing, refer to Dialogues With The Master chapter called THE SUGMAD SPEAKS. (Yes, you read that correctly. THE SUGMAD SPEAKS). Ask yourself Who? or What? was speaking to Paul there?

Sounds like a double standard Doug was using. As if fiction were O.K. so long as it was fiction "riding for the Eck brand".

[Henosis Sage]

eg "The Voice said: .... I give thee grace to take up thy work. Take up
thy pen and write and I will tell thee what to write. Ye must give to
the world My love, through thy talent."

and "I will speak through thee to the Earth world, through thy pen, and
through thy voice, thy very countenance and actions. Ye are myself, the
Divine Power and I am ye."

pg 199 DWTM , stuff like that?

That's SUGMAD telling Twitchell to put what it says into his "writings".

If one was to take it literally, it means what was written was really
important, yeah? That Twitchell spoke and wrote with the highest
authority possible.

How could he have possibly said "no" to that .. same as Graham felt he had
"no choice but to write it all down" ... and Marman complains about that?

Then goes on to talk about returning sacred stones ... why couldn't he have
just said so instead of waiting for Marman to come along and unravel the great
mystery of Twitchell's writings.

Twitchell said that SUGMAD spoke to him and said hey, you have to write and
use your talents. Doug Marman says "we all know" SUGMAD doesn't speak, so Graham's journal must be wrong. Twitchell is the one who said it, not Doug.

Or more likely, is the DWTM stuff merely "copied writings", imaginary
rhetoric and not real experiences? A fictional work using several
"literary devices" seems very likely and the most logical given all the
evidence.

[Kinpa]

This voice is saying that your entire "PTHA" is guilty of copyright infringement! Also, your claims to have notified the FBI, Eckankar or Hostgator, are ALL false! Plain lies! LOL You simply are not able to meet their basic guidelines for submitting a complaint based on copyright, never mind the fact that you don't actually own an such copyright! Already proven btw, because I know who the owners of those copyrights are...you just got mad because you were told that your archive has nothing of any great importance, and that all of your so called research is pretty much the same! It is now time for you to curse and call names....have at it!

[Etznab]

Rebazar Tarzs also supposedly told Paul what to write, which (if true) would suggest to me that Rebazar Tarzs had a role in the Eckankar writings.

It's the very first paragraph in Paul Twitchell's 1970 book Dialogues With The Master (2nd paragraph of Chapter One) that Rebazar Tarzs has something to say. I quote: "I want you to take down the following words as part of a discourse to give the world. You will act as a channel for this message. Are you ready?"

Paul Twitchell responds by saying "Yes. But please go slow."

[Etznab]

"Literary devices". I agree. Seems very likely to me too.

[Etznab]

O.K. I think the first paragraph for that D.W.T.M. chapter is needed (and for educational purposes) so people can inspect the context. I'll give the first 3 paragraphs. Quoting:

A DIALOGUE ON GOD-REALIZATION

Rebazar Tarzs aroused me out of a sound sleep about 1:30 a.m., and motioned for me to go to the writing desk and take a pencil to write. I resisted a little, but he ignored it completely and settled down on the edge of the bed to stare silently at the ceiling. In a few minutes he started talking.

R.T.: "I want you to take down the following words as part of a discourse to give the world. You will act as a channel for this message. Are you ready?"

P.: "Yes. But please go slow." [... .]

Based on: Dialogues With The Master, by Paul Twitchell, 1970, 1st chapter, 1st three paragraphs.

***

In the process of discussion I asked to learn what Kinpa thought was the role of Rebazar Tarzs with respect to the writings attributed to him ( to R.T., and that were put in quotation marks). Of course, it was a natural question to ask in order to learn another person's belief. Or what another person thinks is the truth.

Kinpa. If you can stop being nasty long enough to sincerely answer what was the role of Rebazar Tarzs with respect to quotation-marked sections illustrated as if to come from him, please do. Thanks.

[Etznab]

Some of the past discussion between Kinpa and myself when I sought to learn what he believed, or what he thought was the truth.

07/03/15

Kinpa: "... the ONLY person responsible for plagiarisms being attributed to ECK Masters is Paul Twitchell....end of story! ... ."

Etznab: "This is conformation then that, according to you, Rebazar Tarzs had no role in the plagiarisms?"

07/03/15

Kinpa: "Can you prove that he ever did? Are you unable to see that your saying this makes you look not very smart at all? And you still claim to be an ECKist? I think that is a bold faced lie on your part, you haven't been for quite some time, but you seem to enjoy pretending that you are....where are yours and sean's letters to the Org? Both of you can feel free to say whatever you'd like....it's not very nice to make empty threats to people is it? It certainly doesn't make you appear to be NOT a liar either! Still having a nice night? LOL"

07/04/15 [Etznab]

I was asking you a question and you answered with a question.

Here is your quote again:

"... the ONLY person responsible for plagiarisms being attributed to ECK Masters is Paul Twitchell....end of story. ... ."

And I asked you. This is conformation then that, according to you, Rebazar Tarzs had no role in the plagiarisms?

Here is the reason I ask. Paul Twitchell and Eckankar illustrated the words of Rebazar Tarzs in quotes. I and Sean have shown this too you over and over, and what was said about Rebazar Tarzs on front and back covers of the books.

[...] What was the role of Rebazar Tarzs with regard to the words said to come from and illustrated as if to come from him? What was his part in those words?

...

Kinpa: "You NEED me to name Rebazar's role? Why would that be?"

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/6p99RBU1UFg

That would be to hear from you exactly what you think was his role. It seems there was suggestion that, according to you, Rebazar had no role.

Let me put it another way. Do you agree that Paul Twitchell created fictions that he attributed to the name Rebazar Tarzs (Rebazar Tarzs who had no role in the creations)?

[Etznab]

"... Not to mention Eck Masters (that some have argued were inner experiences and not outer dictations) ... ."

Case in point: "... so he did it by portraying his books as dialogues with his Master. But these are inner experiences he is describing here that are much subtler than they might seem."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/_uJpRgNVD2gJ

I don't necessarily agree with Doug. For one thing, Paul Twitchell's Intro. for Diologues With The Master read in part "... Rebazar Tarzs ... appeared to me nightly in his light body for practically one year and dictated them. ... ."

So there was Paul, at the writing desk? and Rebazar Tarzs settling down on the edge of the bed dictating to Paul what to write?

So Paul was woken up in the middle of the night (repeatedly?) by a light body apparition of Rebazar Tarzs telling him what to write? And at the same time I hear other opinions about how the words belonged to Paul. That Paul was the author.

What does the word dictate mean? Here is an example:

1590s, "to practice dictation, say aloud for another to write down," from Latin dictatus, past participle of dictare "say often, prescribe," frequentative of dicere "tell, say" (see diction). Sense of "to command" is 1620s. Related: Dictated; dictates; dictating.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dictate&allowed_in_frame=0

Say aloud for another to write down? This is why I ask What was the role of Rebazar Tarzs. And what was the role of Rebazar Tarzs with regard to plagiarisms. Examples exist showing that Paul Twitchell evidently copied, paraphrased and plagiarized from various authors and writings and wrote that Rebazar Tarzs dictated so many discourses to him.

Is it possible then that Rebazar Tarzs in numerous cases knowingly dictated to Paul Twitchell what already existed in the writings of so many New Age authors and gurus? Was this one of the roles of Rebazar Tarzs with regard to quoted passages attributed to him?

[Etznab]

Some other examples of what others believed.

"... My point is that the problem goes away once we realize that everything
Paul wrote were his words. He was writing it. These were not the words of Rebazar or Kirpal. They were his words.

"So, I'm not sure I follow how this has anything to do with Paul witnessing the physical body of Rebazar and speaking with him."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/_uJpRgNVD2gJ

That sounds similar to something Kinpa wrote. Doug and Kinpa appear to, in some ways, think similarly.

Doug wrote that he was not trying to discuss whether Rebazar was real, or not.

"... I can see that you've missed my point. I am not trying to discuss whether Rebazar is real or not. I am discussing the concern you raised about how Paul could change the name from Kirpal to Rebazar.

"My point was that Paul was the author, not Kirpal or Rebazar. Once we realize that Paul was the actual author, then it doesn't seem strange at all that he would think he could rewrite his own words however he thought best. ... ."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/_uJpRgNVD2gJ

[Henosis Sage]

---

RE: "... My point is that the problem goes away once we realize that everything

Paul wrote were his words. He was writing it. These were not the words of
Rebazar or Kirpal. They were his words."

And it is clearly shown in every book, that "his words" were Plagiarized words,
mainly verbatim copying of other's books words ... and not the words of an Eck
Masters, Lords of the Planes, Silent Ones, Rumi, Rebazar or SUGMAD.

So given Paul Twitchell was clearly the only one responsible for compiling the
spiritual pilosophical psyhcological writings of others and then mis-representing them AS IF these were the inspired works of a great master taught by the greatest of all masters of all time, the vairagi ECK Masters, then this confirms he was alos a major Plagiarist.

And what do people say about others they deem as being "plagiarists"???

Well they say things like this::
"PAUL TWITCHELL you little plagiarist-thief! You made a HUGE mistake by
stealing a privately written and copyrighted RADHASOAMI & NEW THOUGHT
BOOKS! Here is what it said without that last paragraph you wrote to
make it appear to be written by you! Say goodbye to your imagined
credibility TWITCHELL!!! This was NOT done for TEACHING educational
purposes and fair use does NOT apply!"

"IT'S COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!!"

"PAUL TWITCHELL is proven a thief, a plagiarist, AND a liar by this very
thread and thousands of other threads!"

"Fabricated "evidence" by the lying, thieving plagiarist PAUL TWITCHELL
himself....boring...no credibility OR evidence, filled with double
standards that HE WAS blind to...can't spell very well when HE'S
been drinking either..."

REF:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/1kO6aqNHvUg/jrEWb9GkecMJ

[Kinpa]

Once again sean has no choice but to steal and manipulate another's words into a different context....typical for him, but we all knew that long ago LOL....unfortunately for him, he also breaks copyright laws on an almost daily basis....I can hardly wait to see where he is one ear from today! And just how many of his threats were never followed through! Talk is cheap seanie-boy!

[Henosis Sage]

-------------

RE: "(Twitchell) had other choices than to steal and manipulate another's
words into a different context....typical for him, but we all knew that long ago... (didn't we?)"

"IT'S COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!!"

"PAUL TWITCHELL is proven a thief, a plagiarist, AND a liar by this very
thread and thousands of other threads!"

"Fabricated "evidence" by the lying, thieving plagiarist PAUL TWITCHELL
himself....boring...no credibility OR evidence, filled with double

standards that HE WAS blind to... and even can't spell very well when HE'S
been drinking either..."

REF:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/1kO6aqNHvUg/jrEWb9GkecMJ

"..unfortunately for MATT SHARPE, he also breaks copyright laws on an
almost daily basis...."

PROVE IT PROVE IT PROVE IT PROVE IT you demand????

OK SURE .......... with a VERBATIM COPY/PASTE.

From: Loni Haas (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) This sender is in your safe list.
Sent: Saturday, 11 July 2015 12:34:55 AM

Regarding your list of concerns highlighted in orange from your former email, investigation of your claims has yielded the following results:

Rebazar Tarzs Drawing Patti Simpson 12-1972
Properties of this document show the author to be "microsoft." As it looks to be a scan of page 42 from an old book and fits the description of items you said you purchased or obtained and scanned and made into a PDF under your archive copyright, it has been removed.

The Key to Eckankar - Paul Twitchell (1992 version)
Properties of this document show no author but there is a well constructed frontispiece that again fits the description of items you said you purchased or obtained and scanned and made into a PDF under your archive copyright, it has been removed

Eckankar: The Bilocation Philosophy/Orion Magazine 1/1964 - Paul Twitchell
I could not view document properties of where this was housed but it appeared to be a scanned item and fits the description of items you said you purchased or obtained and scanned and made into a PDF under your archive copyright, it has been removed.

Extracts From Difficulties Of Becoming The Living Eck Master - Paul Twitchell (1980)
Properties of this document show the author to be "ArtemisP" who I might assume is a pseudonym for you or someone you know. It fits the description of items you said you purchased or obtained and scanned and made into a PDF under your archive copyright, it has been removed.

[end quote]

[Kinpa]

So you CLAIM, however,this is not evidence! Try again sean!! LMAO! I laugh harder every time! We do actually have proof that YOU blatantly infringed copyright! Beats the hell out of a bunch of self-typed CLAIMS! You are too afraid to show the complete mail aren't you? Once again taking everything out of context, and ASSUMING it constitutes evidence, when it does not, which is why you ARE far too afraid to actually contact ANYONE to lay charges upon me for ANYTHING! HA~! We have a full file of every email you ave ever sent, and every claim you have made here....when are we going to court tough guy??? BRING IT! TALK IS CHEAP!!!!!!

[Kinpa]

You purposely deleted all of the PUBLIC DOMAIN books off of your complaint, that was 100% ASSUMPTION! FRAMING things once again, like a proven liar and plagiarizer would! AND YOU ARE! LMAO!

[Kinpa]

1 year from today, there will STILL be NO calls made, or letters or emails written, to ANYONE but especially Eckankar or the FBI! Wait and see, mister bullshitter will drown in his own creations!

[Etznab]

Notice my posts and examples on this thread and how Kinpa responded.

He didn't!

I think the responses - where he attacked you - were distractions he hoped would steer attention away from my queries.

This, IMO, has been one of the apologists chief tactics (besides reporting posts) to censor the idea of "its more than just plagiarism" if they have not fully suffered the "death of an ideal". Iow, still in stages of denial and in stages of bargaining. This is my opinion that I am certain Kinpa would agree I have a right to.

"[...] The first feeling that comes at the death of an ideal is denial: Tell me it ain't so. The second stage is anger. In the third stage, a person wants to bargain: Maybe we can mediate this--isn't there a way it can be worked out? Next comes depression, and finally, acceptance. [... .]"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

Paul Twitchell was not a God. O.K.

What happens if we learn that Rebazar Tarzs and others were fictions created to work like literary devices? Would not such revelations cause people to suffer death of another ideal? (The one that makes R.T. 500+-years-old?, etc.?)

[Etznab]

"[...] I think the responses - where he attacked you - were distractions he hoped would steer attention away from my queries. [... .]"

IMO it's a long-established and documented pattern by Kinpa. Look at what he wrote here in this next post. Look at what he was responding to. Look at how I effectively silenced him with the truth; nothing more to say on that thread.

"Any/all plagiarisms are wholly irrelevant until sean admits that he plagiarized an individual's copyrighted work! Until he does this, he himself causes the entire notion to be useless to look at or think about. Anyone who has a different opinion advocates deception. "

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UKTYqCQg2fY/hYvESXiNLPwJ

This is what I mean about distractions.

I have known it for a long, long, long, long, long time that apologists and detractors like Rich S. Doug. M. J.R., Rob, Kinpa and others are afraid for "death of an ideal" and become very, very angry as a result.

[Kinpa]

Such a simpleton! LOL LOVE the way you two love to assume that silence means that you are proven right! LAZY! You had better grab a hold of ANY direct evidence before you start partying thinking that you have caused anyone to go through any death of any ideals...but I AM glad you stated this here, as it proves that you are lying when you claim to be an ECKist!!

[Etznab]

"... regardless of what I said about your membership, there is nothing you can do, I also get to have my own opinions, but you know full well that if you look at your card it says the date I gave you, you simply refuse to admit that...."

Kinpa telling me what is the date on my Eckankar membership card? We can solve this easily enough, because the office knows the date and if you don't believe me then maybe you will believe them.

I am calling you on your lies. You wrote.

"... Anything I have ever said about you messing your pants, is just something you'll have to learn to put up with. Do I need to ave met your friends and/or family? Not necessarily. If what I said was so untrue and ridiculous, then why are you STILL screaming at the top of your lungs about it?"

No I don't have to put up with your lying, esp. about my membership status and views about the religion.

You profess the granting of liberty for people to have their own opinions. That is good. That is mature. Not everybody in Eckankar, and in other religions all share the same opinions. Esp. about questionable history, about man-made history and copied, paraphrased, plagiarized information.

Your opinion I saw about Rebazar Tarzs included:

"... You can't prove ANYTHING about him, however, everyone knows that not being able to prove that he IS real, does NOT prove that he is NOT real. Simple fact. Plagiarism and paraphrasing belong solely to Paul Twitchell, and that ship has sailed, it's over. ... ."

Everyone knows? I only see what you write about what everyone knows. I can't prove that Easter Bunny is real. Does that mean Easter Bunny is real? How about Dumbo the flying elephant? Real because someone portrayed him by cartoon images as real? Being part of a discussion also means listening to other opinions other than your own. Did you see me try to correct you about my membership info? Did you listen?

"... a simple thing, you've been called out for being a liar and claiming to be a member when you aren't. Scan a copy of your valid card and post a link, and as I said, I'll retract every word of it, but until that happens, I will not. If I am a liar, then prove that to me, if you will not or cannot, then you'll have no choice but to amend our own words. ALL of this works BOTH ways, for you and sean, never forget that... [... .]"

Already so much detail you claimed to know about my membership ... so why are you asking me if you already (according to you) know? What type of conscience, or inner guidance are you listening to? Seriously. Because to be honest it looks to me like you can't, or won't accept physical evidence. Evidently it is not enough for you to see me spell out the truth repeatedly, because you just insist on denying it.

How will you apologize for being wrong about my Eckankar membership and lying about it repeatedly in spite of my spelling out the truth to you? Have you thought about it already how you will apologize? Because you do owe me an apology for that, Kinpa. For those lies. Like it or not, you have (so to speak) dug your own hole and will now have to fill it in before risking that your ego falls into it and gets lost.

Please go ahead and recommend that everyone pay close attention to how you answer the lie about defaming my Eckankar status. Because already you wrote as if so certain I was not a current member. That you were so certain that my card had a date on it that you knew.

You are Eckankar clergy, Kinpa? Calling me a liar? I am not Eckankar clergy, but I am calling you a liar. So see, it doesn't matter what is your name. That does not determine the truth. Not any more than assigning pseudo names to the writings of other people makes the pseudo names into real people. The truth is what matters and that is why I and others look at the quoted words of Masters and compare them with writings by other people. It's to get at the truth and of who wrote what, and when. If you don't like it then choose a new topic for discussion. Maybe something other than what is (according to you) in people's pants.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UKTYqCQg2fY/qZRe_g3caXAJ

[Henosis Sage]

--- --- ---


---

For visitors, KINPA's real name is Matthew Sharpe, of Michigan USA.

He's an Eckist, or so he claims. He cannot walk the talk.

He claims he is the #2 person who owns the Light Force Network website.

He claims he is responsible as the Webmaster there.

He also runs two other websites, or so he claims.

He plays a "senior" role for "Initiates" on the LFN website.

He calls himself there "SHABDA - Preceptor" and is a site "Guardian".


NOTE: That website has NOTHING to do with Eckankar, the religion, nor
Sri Harold Klemp the leader of ECKANKAR. There is only one leader.

That LFN website and the people on it have NO AUTHORITY to speak on
behalf of either Harold or Eckankar in anyway whatsoever.

Buyer beware.

ALL conflict issues between this fool Matthew Sharpe and myself have
absolutley NOTHING to do with Eckankar.

They have NOTHING to do with what I may or may not say, or think about
it, nor any other spiritual path/s and practices or Beliefs.

IF someone wants to know what I actually do think, know and believe, then
do yourself a big favour and NEVER LISTEN to Matthew Sharpe because he has
NO IDEA about me or anything else for the matters.

Feel free to simply ask me any GENUINE question you would like to put to me.

He certainly DOES NOT TEACH ECKANKAR .. NOR ADHERE TO THEIR HIGH PRINCIPLES
or ECK Ideals that are set for Leaders or Initiates. Check the ECKANKAR
Guidelines for yourself. If you have no access to those, I can provide
the URLs so that you can see them in Print and compare Sharpe's behaviour
and HIS WORDS and ACTIONS with those Eckankar Guidelines.

ONE CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS .... that IS a spiritual truism that fits here.

Douglas Marman is similarly caught in the very same Bind himself.

So Matthew Sharpe is a liar. A fraud and a conman.

He is also an incompetent and a right fool.

Matthew Sharpe is an obsessed internet stalker and serial abuser.

Matthew Sharpe is a Perpetrator who uses and abuses other people for
"sport" and self-aggrandizement.

The evidence here on a.r.e. and in other places should prove this beyond
any doubt to reasonably intelligent, decent and good hearted people.

Seek out good resources online and educate yourself.

http://www.purimbooks.com/pmbooks/13235737-stop-signs.html

http://www.haltabuse.org/resources/online.shtml

http://bullyonline.org/old/related/abuse.htm



.

[Kinpa]

You AREN'T an ECKIst! NO Apology!

[Kinpa]

Poor poor sean, with all of those nonsense claims....what a joke! LMAO~!

[Henosis Sage]

---

A Prophecy from July 2015 went like this:

Kinpa

13/07/2015

- show quoted text -

1 year from today, there will STILL be NO calls made, or letters or emails
written, to ANYONE but especially Eckankar or the FBI! Wait and see, mister
bullshitter will drown in his own creations!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/zZdePy6tbJI/phlXtogvOe0J


I agree that: "mister bullshitter will drown in his own creations!"

The rest is provably false. A failed Prophet iow.

So much for wild claims of having "remote viewing" talents.

(shrug)

[Henosis Sage]

---

Of course that comment like all the others I may make here is NOT a discussion
with, nor directed at a poster here named "kinpa".

It is a commentary directed only to all other readers of this group.

Responding to a partricualr "post" does not mean, and should NOT be taken
as a "reply to Kinpa" under any circumstances.

I do NOT and will NOT communicate to him in any form.

As far as I am concerned he does not exist, except "legally".

Thank You.

[Kinpa]

You said a few days ago that you had had some legal issues and family illnesses to deal with....that was the Universe, or Karma getting your attention and warning you. Yet you continue as you always have.....wait and see what you have wrought for yourself, and do not say that you never got any warning....you stated your own terms for this..."NO QUARTER" as I recall...enjoy! And be blessed with Divine Light and Love, and Perfect Health, in the Name of the SUGMAD, the ECK, and the Mahanta.

[Henosis Sage]

--- ---

RE: "....that was the Universe, or Karma getting your attention and warning you."

RE: "and do not say that you never got any warning..."


What an idiot.


Added to the records.

[Kinpa]

You were warned....enjoy the results you have created for yourself....