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1983-10-22 Harold Klemp Speech High Initiates - GROSS v ECKANKAR
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Peetee Aitchei
Oct 13, 2014, 5:33:29 AM10/13/14
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1983-10-22 Harold Klemp Speech and Q & A with High Initiates - GROSS v ECKANKAR
High Initiates Meeting - ECKANKAR World Wide Seminar
GROSS vs ECKANKAR
US District Court - District of Oregon - Civil No. 84-228
EXHIBIT B - PLAINTIFF'S SUR REPLY
--- ---
Quoting extracts from pages 1 - 10:
[ Clarification comments are bracketed thus ]
This recording is from the higher initiates meeting, Saturday morning,
October 22, 1983 at the World Wide Seminar held in Los Angeles, CA.
HK: Um, I'd like to, we're going to address a few things this morning.
You've had questions about some of the rumors and rumors mixed with fact
about the situation with Darwin and myself and we'd like to go ahead and
address them this morning as well as we can, so that you have answers for
the ECKists that come to you.
I'd like to address myself to a couple of these rumors that I have in my
pocket, and after this I would like to introduce the 8th initiates and the
Board of Trustees and I'll act more or less as a moderator and you can ask
your questions.
And don't pull punches, you know, ask 'em straight forward, because now
you can get it straight or maybe I won't just say straight, but you can get
at least this side, because eventually you're going to have to go to the
Inner Master, but you ought to at least get both sides.
I've hesitated in bringing alot of these things out, because they're still
developing. Things are still happening. It's not like a fixed situation
that has come with like a good story with a front, a middle, and an end.
The end is just going on an on. And as the end goes on and on it changes
things that happen from front to middle.
So, I would like to um mention the first thing that has been upsetting
many of you is that Darwin feels and says repeatedly that he is not
getting his mail.
He's getting his mail, he's getting it twice a week, we're putting it in
an envelope, [...] We send it in an envelope and it's sent certified mail
return receipt requested. [...]
BB [Bernadine Burlin - Darwin's secretary now up in Oregon since August]
left instructions with the executive secretary, Toni, and told her how
she wanted the mail sent.
Toni was to open it, BB's anyway, look through it and see what was
business first and then send it further. Within, I don't know the last
two weeks or so BB said she there was one personal letter that had come
through and it was opened and therefore she would like all mail closed so
this is now being done.
[...] and uh the other question was about Darwin being cut off and being
penniless and this is no true. The man has more money than you and I put
together. He earns four times more than I do and I don't care.
I've come up the hard way. At this time the ECKANKAR organization pays me
a salary, Darwin's is four times more than mine. These were salaries he set
himself. Until this last July [1983] I didn't even know what he made.
He and the business manager and Alan Nichols, who was our corporate
attorney [Board Chairman and Trustee] knew what I made but I didn't know
what anybody else made and I didn't ask -- because this business of
separating the business from the spiritual effectively kept me from many
of the numbers.
And it's taken me a year and a half to dig and dig and look and examine
and finally get to some of the numbers, which upset me very much when I
saw how we were using money and this is why we became very upset when the
membership, by management proposal and management at that time meant
Darwin, had wanted to jack them up to $300 a year and the impact would
have been mostly on the new person coming in, because many of you were
already on life memberships or sustaining membership and it wouldn't have
effected you at all.
And this was why there was so little protest at the higher initiates
meetings when this $300 figure came up, or maybe some of you were afraid
to speak up and say hey, a three hundred percent jump, wasn't that a
little too much and this was my feeling and this was my sentiment to the
board.
At the time when this vote was taken, everything was still being done
very nicey nicey, just you trust business and this is our recommendation,
we need to jump to $300 instead of $100, and you just handle the
spiritual and this is being done for the good of the whole, so, I don't
know, I should maybe check my notes, I want to make sure I cover
everything, but it was primarily the mail, the salary, and I'd like to
call some of the others out here, so that you can ask your questions.
We have alot of regrouping to do, we have to go back on our fundamental
organization all the way back, on our money, our membership structure,
and also our study programs.
It's gotten so complicated to try to explain to somebody what any
membership means, that I can't even tell you myself if someone comes up
with a question, does it include family with a child, it's gone back and
forth so often I don't, I believe I couldn't even answer you myself and
this is, I want to get it simple because the membership structure ought
to be simple, comprehensive, and our study program, ought to be the same
way.
Right now, I have a hard time understanding who can teach the Sacred Way
class or who cannot. Do you have to be an ECK Spiritual Aide, higher
initiate, with two stripes or one stripe. (laughter)
We've taken the function of Arahata away from the second initiate, and
this is how we started, and this is where the inspiration came, when a
person reached second initiation if he had some kind of instinct or
willingness to teach he was an Arahata. And we've taken it so far away,
there was almost nothing left for an Arahata, except discussion classes.
Well I don't want to belabor this so, heh, well, we have, aw I misplaced
my watch last night, except for the little one I carry. (laughter)
We have an hour, so we wan to move along and get your questions.
Ah, what else could I answer here . Oh, the mail, the salary. His
paycheck is being sent to him twice a month and the paycheck is every
month is $6,666. I don't know if it's and 66 cents, I don't know.
But multiply it by twelve months and you get an idea of what the man
makes and we're still sending it to him. Our counsel advised, as we were
trying to get our property back, ECKANKAR property, which is part of the
ECKANKAR membership [that is not correct, for the 'membership' had no
ownership rights of any Eckankar property, it was all under the Eckankar
non-profit Corporation], from this Oregon corporation [which was fully
owned by the Eckankar Corporation], which has no membership except the
president of ECKANKAR, which was Darwin.
[This is not stating the situation correctly, for Darwin was merely
listed as 'an Officer' of that Corporation, no different than he and
others were listed as 'Officers and/or Trustees' of the Eckankar
Corporation. Darwin neither owned or personally controlled that Oregon
Corporation any more or less than the Board of Trustees 'personally owned'
and controlled Eckankar.]
HK:
All this money went to this Oregon corporation [Voted by the Board of
Trustees in June for that to occur] and we were getting it back and they
advised as we were bringing all this property back to ECKANKAR, that we
not pay his salary.
But we said, we'll, the board, we just consider loyal, lawyers as
counsel, means counsel. You give us your best idea and then we're going
to do what we want anyway. And we said we'll pay him anyway.
One thing I balked at and this is why he became very upset, it was the
$30,000 president's discretionary fund. It is something he [which in fact
really means the entire Board of Trustees at that time] put in the bylaws
in 1978, which means on top of his salary, he allowed himself $30,000 a
year, with no accountability to the board.
[That is not correct, but it sure sounds really bad.]
HK:
It's difficult to set budgets for the board when all of a sudden there
are patches of money, huge amounts not accounted for.
[Actually every dollar had been accounted for under Darwin Gross and
others up to 1983.]
HK:
This meant, this money, discretionary fund was not accountable to the
board of trustees nor as income for government tax reporting purposes.
And when that check came through, legal counsel said you can't sign this
because it's an illegal fund. It could not be set up.
[This is not correct either. A mistaken view of what had been done, and
for what purposes it was done and set up by prior legal counsel and the
Board of Trustees by Voting on Resolutions to set it up.]
HK:
And so I didn't sign that. But at this time he' still getting his money
at the rate of $80,000 a year. I make a quarter of that, so, you know
about where I am. I haven't said anything before.
How can you say it, I've spent hours explaining to individuals and the
next morning they flip flop and they say oh, but he's just a nice guy
Who is slightly off balance.
And these are just a few of the things I'm telling you, but you've got
your own questions and um I want to mention that this money that was
moved up to the Oregon organization, this corporation, which was a baby
[meaning a wholly owned subsidiary] corporation from ECKANKAR which was
set up [by the Board of Trustees and legal counsel], $2.6 million, 260
thou, 2 million 600 thousand dollars was moved up there, specifically
against the advice of myself and board members. And he moved it anyway.
[This, again, is not telling the whole story accurately.]
And it was to a corporation that had no ties legally to ECKANKAR.
[That is not correct, for it had very direct legal and property ties to
Eckankar in it's Articles of Incorporation - yet who at this meeting
would be knowledgeable enough to question this claim being made by the
'leader' of Eckankar at this meeting? No one. For Darwin Gross and
others who did know the complete details were barred from attending
this meeting.]
HK:
In other words it was set up as a gift from ECKANKAR to this corporation
which has no membership. And this is what we came and got back. And we
couldn't get it back first. Well, (long pause) and I can't even touch on
alot of this stuff.
---
[ Legally it was less a permanent 'gift' and more of a transfer of Funds
from one part of an enterprise to another part of that enterprise.
Nothing was 'given' away. It was simply cash funds being shifted from
one Eckankar bank account to another bank account.
There was no 'gift', not in the sense that Eckankar gave this money to
Darwin Gross and couldn't get it back. They didn't need to "get anything
back", because Eckankar never lost possession or control of that money.
And of course the transactions were reversed, as directed. There was never
any problem caused here by Darwin Gross. The difficulties of not being
able to 'get it back first' was all created by Eckankar instigating Court
Orders against Gross and the banks concerned.
Once that was done, then events did move very slowly, in line with the
legal processes then in train. That wasn't Gross' doing.]
---
HK:
I'd like to introduce first of all the 8th initiates and as they come out
here if I don't stumble over their names, they'll be kind and introduce
themselves, 'cuz when you get into Pat's and Patti's and stuff like this
and, would the eighth initiates please um, they're standing back there
thinking, I have to go get 'em. (laughter)
The sound is bad backstage and they can't hear, so they don't probably
know a thing I've said. (laughter) It's how the sound is set up.
(applause) Elmo DeWhitt, Helen Baird, Millie Moore, Pat Henderson, and
Patti Simpson-Rivinus. [Not present Dorothy Moore]
And the Board of Trustees, if you can hear back there. It's really
tricky, it's amazing, oh yeah, (clapping ) Peter Skelskey, Jan Davidson,
Bob Engel, and Gordon Champion. (more clapping)
We were instructed to walk very quiet (break) carefully because of all
the wires up here with all the microphones.
There are roving mikes, so if you have questions, please go tread,
because this is your time, we have a short hour because the chela
meeting comes right after this and if any of you want to use the rest
facilities that you have time to leave and come back. Um yes over there.
[ A large section is cut from the document ]
--- ---
[Q. What is happening with the 8ths, the Board and your Mission? ]
H.K.:
I've opened it up, first step I've done is open the Board to become
a working Board. Again, we want to put the 8th initiates who've earned
it the hard way to move out in front.
When it's time for me to pass the Rod of ECK Power to the next person,
I have to do it. I know exactly what I have to do whether it takes 10
years or 20. And the longer it takes me to do it, so be it.
The Rod of ECK Power gets too hot to handle beyond the time of your
mission and you have to let it go. Darwin had to let it go or the Rod
of ECK Power will burn you to a crisp, that means your health will go
to destruction. He had to pass it, when my time comes I have to pass it.
I know when my time comes, and the mission to me, even though all this
is happening is slowing me down, it seems too modest and too small.
The temptation of that time is saying hey we finally got it rolling,
let's go and then I'd say hey, let's go ten times the amount that I
wanted felt I should have done and it plays with me constantly, but I
know when that time comes, I'm setting it in my mind every day, I get
out and it's going to be good for the teachings of ECK.
The other question is, you're stuck with the person who holds the Rod
of ECK Power. (laughter) (applause)
Our organization is now set up where all the power in the organizational
chain is vested in the president, because when Darwin gave up the Rod
of ECK Power, he had to, he had no choice, because it's still the ECK
which runs the show.
---
[ That is not a coherent comment. All the power of the physical business
organization was vested in the Board of Trustees. They co-jointly, Klemp
included, had the Duty to abide by both the Corporations Articles and
By-Laws, plus US Law that controlled such Non-Profit Corporations.
It was the Board of Trustees who had the power to Vote for or against
anyone being the President, and other Officials of the Corporation.
This is exactly how the Board operated, from Twitchell's time onward.
This continued under Klemp until he forced changes in the Corporations
Articles and created a new Corporate entity called "the Living ECK
Master Sole" corporation. It was then, in 1985-1986, that all the power
that used to be vested in the Board of Trustees was completely upended
and transferred to the LEM Sole Corp.
In other words, all the powers plus the legal ownership of ECKANKAR
property and assets became vested in Harold Klemp, personally.
What really happened is that Klemp did precisely what he was falsely
accusing Gross of doing, when in fact Gross had not done anything of the
kind. That Gross was removed as President and his employment terminated
by a majority of the Board of Trustees in August 1983 in fact proves what
Klemp was claiming was the case was completely untrue. ]
---
H.K.:
And it' almost like a window of miracles that I was able to move in.
There's a hole story behind this too. But it happened, and he tried to
sow up his power in the presidency.
All the power in our organization is vested in the president. If you
know anything about organizational structures or ours especially, you
have the Living ECK Master, Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees
then hires someone called the president, therefore it's a backward kind
of thing.
It's not like the worlds of God where the power comes from top on down,
where there is Sugmad, and then Sat Nam, Kal Niranjan, Jot Niranjan and
then down here. It isn't. The president is subject to the board, is
subject to himself in a way. [ That is Double-Speak, and not correct. ]
I want to put it back to the Living ECK Master and finally you're stuck
with me and all you can do is say, hey when the ECK says the Rod is too
hot to handle, it's going to get him out the way it made the transition
in 1981. So you're stuck with me. (applause)
[ A large section is cut from the document ]
[ Questions and answers given ]
************** (end of side 1) **************
--- ---
H.K.:
The next thing is, how to address the membership and the others. I
found something very interesting even at the ECK office when this was
just starting to happen, all these things. We didn't even know alot of
the facts ourself, you know, what was really happening, what was the
thrust of all this, where was the property, how much property, how many
corporations were there really and all this.
We didn't know any of this, we had to find, dig, and all this, send out
searches, legal searches, all this, title searches. The staff said, they
wanted to know, they really really wanted to know what was all behind
this.
And so we gave them the full thing, we dumped on 'em and they couldn't
handle it. And so I stepped back and I said alright, maybe we've got to
follow the principle of the hierarchy working from the top on down.
Somehow we have to use consideration for the other person and not just
load 'em with facts when it may not be following the thing, "is it true,
is it necessary, is it kind".
It may be true, but is it necessary. It may be true and it may be
necessary, but is it kind. So it's your judgement. I gave some of the
8th initiates information about what to say, about the situation as it
developed, so that if anyone ask 'em they could tell somebody else and it
was amazing, within a three hour space of time I got a call from the East
coast, they said hey, Harold, this is what's happening out there and they
said, "Harold said to Patti that" and then there was a mix, a happy or
unhappy mix of a portion of what I said and the rest was something from
some other plane. So what I am saying is, you'll have to use judgement.
First we had to come to grips with it ourselves. My wife, she's been in a
long time, she had a hard time with some of these things and it got in the
way of our family life as a matter of fact.
She started getting upset in different areas and never traced it back to
this extreme negative flow that was pouring into our household as I had
to handle all the phone calls coming home. Finally I just had insist we
talked about it and we finally figured out what was causing this in our
family. And we said it has to be this pure negative flow coming in.
So I said listen, it's my job to handle it, because it's my job. But I
said, I'm not going to talk to you about and give you a blow by blow
account because I said, it's just not right. It's breaking alot of things
up and it's making it bad for our family.
So consider that too. Whatever you hear here today, I don't know, I can't
tell you what judgement to use. But is it true, is it necessary, and is it
kind. Be considerate of people who are just coming on the path and as one
of you mentioned, the reason we've been quiet, probably 80% of the
membership, really knew nothing of what was happening.
And out of consideration for these, why blast it. We've got the mailing
facilities. I could have just been blasting out all kinds of information.
We have the mailing list. I could have done it. But you can't get the
full story in a letter and it's going to harm some of the people who are
just getting on the path and their legs are still shaky.
How far can we go protecting the people who are trying to establish
themselves spiritually. I don't know, it's up to you. It's your
responsibility now.
Ah, I'd like to go in back further. Just so, so you're pretty well assured
this isn't assaulted ah, well, alright Chris [Morris ex-trustee and
employee] has something to say, I just said this and he was on the
management team, but go ahead Chris, (laugh) well.
[A section of comment & questions is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
Whosoever reached the spiritual heights, does he have to be careful
and ah the other question about Letters to Gail III.
Paul had written these letters to Gail as a private thing and they weren't
meant for the whole world to see. In it he had techniques how to kill
people, how to use the tractor and retractor beams to tear a person apart.
This is not the kind of thing I want to be responsible for going out there.
When Darwin had this edited, they kept all this stuff in there, just a few
instances of it. The final editing hadn't been one. Patti had been trained
by Paul to edit the Works according to the way it was. Not as a
proofreader, which is a very mechanical, is the "and" right, is the comma
here and all this, no, but to put the ECK in and in some cases Paul had an
association with other groups and then he'd say I want this in, I do not
want this in.
[This was referred to as "fitting out" the writings for Eckankar.]
But in this case we've left it in. But when these techniques were in how
to kill people and unleashing that on this world, we've got enough problems.
I had the thing shredded. There were, I don't know how many of them. But
Patti edited books I and II under Paul's direction and she was excluded
deliberately from editing book III and this thing came out.
It hadn't the final editing. There's alot of editing that goes on in any
book for those of you who are writers. And so I've asked her again to go
through and edit it and she 's gone through it one by one. I've got it in
my desk now. I hope to go through it before I go to the South Pacific. Um
that's about a week, a week and a half. And then back to Patti again to go
through it, and then it's going into typesetting. I don't know if we'll have
it by the Youth Conference, but I want the thing to be gone over and at
least to match the works that were released during the time when Paul was
alive.
Because many of the manuscripts Paul had finished, they were unedited, they
were unfinished. He was putting them together. They were manuscripts he had
written years before. He hadn't been able to sell them because ECKANKAR
hadn't come out, and now he put them together, and he had to outfit them for
ECKANKAR.
And this is how it was and that's why Willie made a good point. Have we
built a path around the writings of Paul. No. Sometimes we think we have.
But we haven't. It's on the Light and Sound and it's on your own experience
of the Light and Sound. And it's always this.
And this is what happened. I took the thing back and I want to make sure
that these things go out. If it was a private letter, that the private
things that could destroy people, these things are taken out. And there are
a few techniques in there which are very bad. They've been used as a matter
of fact. (clapping) Yeah Ted, do you have someone over there.
[A section of comment & questions is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
We've got other things coming out first, that are alot more urgent.
I've got things lined up that I want to run through Patti as Senior
Editor, but I've given her just one thing at a time so that we don't get
scattered. I want one good thing out first, Letters to Gail III coming
out first.
[The LTG 3 did not come out until 1990 in a single hard cover print run.
Prior to that it was only given out as a High Initiate Discourse Series.]
H.K.:
I've got a stack of other things that are going through, some of them are
novels by ECKists and things like this. But I don't want to overload her,
she's already going to be put into other things and otherwise we start
getting scattered again.
You can have a hundred good ideas but if you've only got the resources to
put one in motion, it would be good to select one good move and go after
it 100% rather than 99 at 1% effort. That's what we're doing.
Trying to recognize that we can't do everything and then pick out the
things that need to be done first and do those. Um hmmm. Thank you.
Out, Bob over there somewhere if you can find someone.
[A short section / question is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
That's another whole area. Okay, we've got a few more minutes before
quarter to. What's happened, many of the Initiation records we had were
destroyed, were by Darwin' orders erased.
[I don't believe that is correct. There is no other evidence to support it.
Gross did take the original files of chelas he had Initiated, but copies
of all these were returned to Eckankar in due course, by agreement post
October 1983.]
H.K.:
We've reconstructed much of this. We don't have very good records right now
about your initiation levels I'm afraid to say. Another thing that was done
and I have to be honest, that people were given the initiations by date and
this is not the way to do it.
Darwin just did whole a bunch here by date and anybody that had 5 years,
they were sent a pink slip. There are some 5th initiates who aren't 5th
initiates. And as, this is, I don't know how to say this, but we've got to
address this too.
And another issue that has to be faced. We've got to go back, and I'm
leaving this in the hands of the ECK, we're going to sit down, as we can get
to all of these things and put out a program of a checking and rechecking
before a person is recommended for Initiation. And then when he gets it,
it's still in the hands of Spirit.
At this point I leave it in the hands of Spirit, for those of you who got it
and weren't quite ready. It's not the kind of thing I do. Because an
initiation to me was, was hard won and earned and I appreciated it and I've,
we've got kind of an inflation in our initiations. You know what that does to
the dollar. (laughing)
It's a hard thing to earn the 5th initiation and it ought to be. Not that it
ought to be, but it generally is, 'cuz your whole life goes "shwt", but some
people haven't had that thing happen. So now there's going to have to be a
settling out period for several years, as these people either leave the path
or they can't handle the vibrations from there and they do outrageous things,
where I'm going to have to set them aside.
I won't do it unless it's for cause, their behavior, what they do out here.
But it's very sad thing that the initiations are treated like a number and
yet we have to set up a whole system whereby it can come through in the
proper way.
People forget that computers are also part of the scheme of the ECK. In the
old days, a Master talked to one person, we didn't need a computer.
But nowadays we're reaching many people and that is the only way we can get
it. But the process has to be set up right.
The selection in the field has to be right, where you just don't tap your
buddy, because he's part of your family and then you send a recommendation
through, knowing that the staff can't go and research this.
---
[Klemp is basically admitting that HIs and Initiators in the field are not
trustworthy in his own mind. Open to "nepotism" and cheating. That head
office "spiritual services" staff cannot go and check these things.
That an 8th Initiate or another HI assisting Klemp personally is unable to
work out for themselves, using their special Eckankar taught inner resources
and common sense to pick up problems along the way and handle it.]
---
H.K.:
There are so many requests that come in on this. Physically, I couldn't
shuffle the papers that fast and so I have to have a screening process.
---
[And this is one of the many difficulties that Gross had been handling
himself for a decade too! Especially in the later years as the membership
kept increasing under his leadership.
Plus handling court cases and the major public attacks against ECKANKAR about
Twitchell's past and the plagiarism issues. Gross also had a lot on his
plate, not least a divorce from Gail as well. This is precisely why Gross
needed a break for health reasons, and the support of someone like Klemp
to break up the workload on the Living ECK master as well as the business
side of running an effective Board of Trustees and Head Office
Administration.
According to the stories put out by Klemp and Co., here and elsewhere, one
would think Gross had been running ECKANKAR all but single handed, with
no support from anyone. With no actively functioning Board, and very poor
accounting and legal advice.
That Gross was now a fully Fallen ECK Master. A Black magician seeking power
and wealth all to his own ends, whilst in the middle of ripping off $ millions
in cash plus the property of Eckankar to start up his own schismatic teaching.
It's really a ludicrous fantasy to lay all these problems and difficulties
onto Gross, alone. Gross was already the LEM in 1981. If power and control
was all he wanted, then all he needed to do was do nothing, and stay put.
For the facts are, the truth is, Gross didn't do that. Now did he?
No Klemp, no new LEM required. Gross could have run the show anyway he
chose to already in 1981. According to Klemp this what he was doing. Reality
and the facts actually tell a completely different more rational and logical
and true story about this historical period of Eckankar.
Here in October 1983 and soon after as well, Klemp in rapid fire lays out for
everyone to hear, see and talk about, all these apparently really important
issues and problems confronting him and ECKANKAR. Supposedly very serious
stuff at this time.
Yet that had arisen as if 'out of the blue' ONLY AFTER KLEMP had been
appointed as the new LEM, didn't it? At a time when there was two ECK masters
guiding the ship. Things like automatic Initiations, emphasizing how difficult
it is for him to handle this now.
This is after he had been in the role for two years already himself. What was
he doing himself all this time? That is the key question needing to be asked
here by the 8ths, the board of Trustees, and the HIs at this meeting in
October 1983.
All the while Klemp and everyone else are totally ignoring the facts that
these very same pressures had been solely on Gross' shoulders for years
already.
This is so much more about presenting an "OH POOR ME" story, loaded up with
a huge litany of:
"It's all Gross' fault, not Klemp's!"
I cannot accept that it was ever as simple as that.
Gross = The Baddie! Klemp = The Goodie, who saved the day?
Far from it. ]
---
H.K.:
Okay. Let's come further front. You know we've got about 5 or 6 minutes and at
that point we have to, let's have one question more, so that we're not right
against the wall. Yes, right there in front, might as well.
[ A section of comments, questions and answers is cut from the document ]
[end quotes]
--- --- ---
High Initiates Meeting - ECKANKAR World Wide Seminar
GROSS vs ECKANKAR
US District Court - District of Oregon - Civil No. 84-228
EXHIBIT B - PLAINTIFF'S SUR REPLY
--- ---
Quoting extracts from pages 1 - 10:
[ Clarification comments are bracketed thus ]
This recording is from the higher initiates meeting, Saturday morning,
October 22, 1983 at the World Wide Seminar held in Los Angeles, CA.
HK: Um, I'd like to, we're going to address a few things this morning.
You've had questions about some of the rumors and rumors mixed with fact
about the situation with Darwin and myself and we'd like to go ahead and
address them this morning as well as we can, so that you have answers for
the ECKists that come to you.
I'd like to address myself to a couple of these rumors that I have in my
pocket, and after this I would like to introduce the 8th initiates and the
Board of Trustees and I'll act more or less as a moderator and you can ask
your questions.
And don't pull punches, you know, ask 'em straight forward, because now
you can get it straight or maybe I won't just say straight, but you can get
at least this side, because eventually you're going to have to go to the
Inner Master, but you ought to at least get both sides.
I've hesitated in bringing alot of these things out, because they're still
developing. Things are still happening. It's not like a fixed situation
that has come with like a good story with a front, a middle, and an end.
The end is just going on an on. And as the end goes on and on it changes
things that happen from front to middle.
So, I would like to um mention the first thing that has been upsetting
many of you is that Darwin feels and says repeatedly that he is not
getting his mail.
He's getting his mail, he's getting it twice a week, we're putting it in
an envelope, [...] We send it in an envelope and it's sent certified mail
return receipt requested. [...]
BB [Bernadine Burlin - Darwin's secretary now up in Oregon since August]
left instructions with the executive secretary, Toni, and told her how
she wanted the mail sent.
Toni was to open it, BB's anyway, look through it and see what was
business first and then send it further. Within, I don't know the last
two weeks or so BB said she there was one personal letter that had come
through and it was opened and therefore she would like all mail closed so
this is now being done.
[...] and uh the other question was about Darwin being cut off and being
penniless and this is no true. The man has more money than you and I put
together. He earns four times more than I do and I don't care.
I've come up the hard way. At this time the ECKANKAR organization pays me
a salary, Darwin's is four times more than mine. These were salaries he set
himself. Until this last July [1983] I didn't even know what he made.
He and the business manager and Alan Nichols, who was our corporate
attorney [Board Chairman and Trustee] knew what I made but I didn't know
what anybody else made and I didn't ask -- because this business of
separating the business from the spiritual effectively kept me from many
of the numbers.
And it's taken me a year and a half to dig and dig and look and examine
and finally get to some of the numbers, which upset me very much when I
saw how we were using money and this is why we became very upset when the
membership, by management proposal and management at that time meant
Darwin, had wanted to jack them up to $300 a year and the impact would
have been mostly on the new person coming in, because many of you were
already on life memberships or sustaining membership and it wouldn't have
effected you at all.
And this was why there was so little protest at the higher initiates
meetings when this $300 figure came up, or maybe some of you were afraid
to speak up and say hey, a three hundred percent jump, wasn't that a
little too much and this was my feeling and this was my sentiment to the
board.
At the time when this vote was taken, everything was still being done
very nicey nicey, just you trust business and this is our recommendation,
we need to jump to $300 instead of $100, and you just handle the
spiritual and this is being done for the good of the whole, so, I don't
know, I should maybe check my notes, I want to make sure I cover
everything, but it was primarily the mail, the salary, and I'd like to
call some of the others out here, so that you can ask your questions.
We have alot of regrouping to do, we have to go back on our fundamental
organization all the way back, on our money, our membership structure,
and also our study programs.
It's gotten so complicated to try to explain to somebody what any
membership means, that I can't even tell you myself if someone comes up
with a question, does it include family with a child, it's gone back and
forth so often I don't, I believe I couldn't even answer you myself and
this is, I want to get it simple because the membership structure ought
to be simple, comprehensive, and our study program, ought to be the same
way.
Right now, I have a hard time understanding who can teach the Sacred Way
class or who cannot. Do you have to be an ECK Spiritual Aide, higher
initiate, with two stripes or one stripe. (laughter)
We've taken the function of Arahata away from the second initiate, and
this is how we started, and this is where the inspiration came, when a
person reached second initiation if he had some kind of instinct or
willingness to teach he was an Arahata. And we've taken it so far away,
there was almost nothing left for an Arahata, except discussion classes.
Well I don't want to belabor this so, heh, well, we have, aw I misplaced
my watch last night, except for the little one I carry. (laughter)
We have an hour, so we wan to move along and get your questions.
Ah, what else could I answer here . Oh, the mail, the salary. His
paycheck is being sent to him twice a month and the paycheck is every
month is $6,666. I don't know if it's and 66 cents, I don't know.
But multiply it by twelve months and you get an idea of what the man
makes and we're still sending it to him. Our counsel advised, as we were
trying to get our property back, ECKANKAR property, which is part of the
ECKANKAR membership [that is not correct, for the 'membership' had no
ownership rights of any Eckankar property, it was all under the Eckankar
non-profit Corporation], from this Oregon corporation [which was fully
owned by the Eckankar Corporation], which has no membership except the
president of ECKANKAR, which was Darwin.
[This is not stating the situation correctly, for Darwin was merely
listed as 'an Officer' of that Corporation, no different than he and
others were listed as 'Officers and/or Trustees' of the Eckankar
Corporation. Darwin neither owned or personally controlled that Oregon
Corporation any more or less than the Board of Trustees 'personally owned'
and controlled Eckankar.]
HK:
All this money went to this Oregon corporation [Voted by the Board of
Trustees in June for that to occur] and we were getting it back and they
advised as we were bringing all this property back to ECKANKAR, that we
not pay his salary.
But we said, we'll, the board, we just consider loyal, lawyers as
counsel, means counsel. You give us your best idea and then we're going
to do what we want anyway. And we said we'll pay him anyway.
One thing I balked at and this is why he became very upset, it was the
$30,000 president's discretionary fund. It is something he [which in fact
really means the entire Board of Trustees at that time] put in the bylaws
in 1978, which means on top of his salary, he allowed himself $30,000 a
year, with no accountability to the board.
[That is not correct, but it sure sounds really bad.]
HK:
It's difficult to set budgets for the board when all of a sudden there
are patches of money, huge amounts not accounted for.
[Actually every dollar had been accounted for under Darwin Gross and
others up to 1983.]
HK:
This meant, this money, discretionary fund was not accountable to the
board of trustees nor as income for government tax reporting purposes.
And when that check came through, legal counsel said you can't sign this
because it's an illegal fund. It could not be set up.
[This is not correct either. A mistaken view of what had been done, and
for what purposes it was done and set up by prior legal counsel and the
Board of Trustees by Voting on Resolutions to set it up.]
HK:
And so I didn't sign that. But at this time he' still getting his money
at the rate of $80,000 a year. I make a quarter of that, so, you know
about where I am. I haven't said anything before.
How can you say it, I've spent hours explaining to individuals and the
next morning they flip flop and they say oh, but he's just a nice guy
Who is slightly off balance.
And these are just a few of the things I'm telling you, but you've got
your own questions and um I want to mention that this money that was
moved up to the Oregon organization, this corporation, which was a baby
[meaning a wholly owned subsidiary] corporation from ECKANKAR which was
set up [by the Board of Trustees and legal counsel], $2.6 million, 260
thou, 2 million 600 thousand dollars was moved up there, specifically
against the advice of myself and board members. And he moved it anyway.
[This, again, is not telling the whole story accurately.]
And it was to a corporation that had no ties legally to ECKANKAR.
[That is not correct, for it had very direct legal and property ties to
Eckankar in it's Articles of Incorporation - yet who at this meeting
would be knowledgeable enough to question this claim being made by the
'leader' of Eckankar at this meeting? No one. For Darwin Gross and
others who did know the complete details were barred from attending
this meeting.]
HK:
In other words it was set up as a gift from ECKANKAR to this corporation
which has no membership. And this is what we came and got back. And we
couldn't get it back first. Well, (long pause) and I can't even touch on
alot of this stuff.
---
[ Legally it was less a permanent 'gift' and more of a transfer of Funds
from one part of an enterprise to another part of that enterprise.
Nothing was 'given' away. It was simply cash funds being shifted from
one Eckankar bank account to another bank account.
There was no 'gift', not in the sense that Eckankar gave this money to
Darwin Gross and couldn't get it back. They didn't need to "get anything
back", because Eckankar never lost possession or control of that money.
And of course the transactions were reversed, as directed. There was never
any problem caused here by Darwin Gross. The difficulties of not being
able to 'get it back first' was all created by Eckankar instigating Court
Orders against Gross and the banks concerned.
Once that was done, then events did move very slowly, in line with the
legal processes then in train. That wasn't Gross' doing.]
---
HK:
I'd like to introduce first of all the 8th initiates and as they come out
here if I don't stumble over their names, they'll be kind and introduce
themselves, 'cuz when you get into Pat's and Patti's and stuff like this
and, would the eighth initiates please um, they're standing back there
thinking, I have to go get 'em. (laughter)
The sound is bad backstage and they can't hear, so they don't probably
know a thing I've said. (laughter) It's how the sound is set up.
(applause) Elmo DeWhitt, Helen Baird, Millie Moore, Pat Henderson, and
Patti Simpson-Rivinus. [Not present Dorothy Moore]
And the Board of Trustees, if you can hear back there. It's really
tricky, it's amazing, oh yeah, (clapping ) Peter Skelskey, Jan Davidson,
Bob Engel, and Gordon Champion. (more clapping)
We were instructed to walk very quiet (break) carefully because of all
the wires up here with all the microphones.
There are roving mikes, so if you have questions, please go tread,
because this is your time, we have a short hour because the chela
meeting comes right after this and if any of you want to use the rest
facilities that you have time to leave and come back. Um yes over there.
[ A large section is cut from the document ]
--- ---
[Q. What is happening with the 8ths, the Board and your Mission? ]
H.K.:
I've opened it up, first step I've done is open the Board to become
a working Board. Again, we want to put the 8th initiates who've earned
it the hard way to move out in front.
When it's time for me to pass the Rod of ECK Power to the next person,
I have to do it. I know exactly what I have to do whether it takes 10
years or 20. And the longer it takes me to do it, so be it.
The Rod of ECK Power gets too hot to handle beyond the time of your
mission and you have to let it go. Darwin had to let it go or the Rod
of ECK Power will burn you to a crisp, that means your health will go
to destruction. He had to pass it, when my time comes I have to pass it.
I know when my time comes, and the mission to me, even though all this
is happening is slowing me down, it seems too modest and too small.
The temptation of that time is saying hey we finally got it rolling,
let's go and then I'd say hey, let's go ten times the amount that I
wanted felt I should have done and it plays with me constantly, but I
know when that time comes, I'm setting it in my mind every day, I get
out and it's going to be good for the teachings of ECK.
The other question is, you're stuck with the person who holds the Rod
of ECK Power. (laughter) (applause)
Our organization is now set up where all the power in the organizational
chain is vested in the president, because when Darwin gave up the Rod
of ECK Power, he had to, he had no choice, because it's still the ECK
which runs the show.
---
[ That is not a coherent comment. All the power of the physical business
organization was vested in the Board of Trustees. They co-jointly, Klemp
included, had the Duty to abide by both the Corporations Articles and
By-Laws, plus US Law that controlled such Non-Profit Corporations.
It was the Board of Trustees who had the power to Vote for or against
anyone being the President, and other Officials of the Corporation.
This is exactly how the Board operated, from Twitchell's time onward.
This continued under Klemp until he forced changes in the Corporations
Articles and created a new Corporate entity called "the Living ECK
Master Sole" corporation. It was then, in 1985-1986, that all the power
that used to be vested in the Board of Trustees was completely upended
and transferred to the LEM Sole Corp.
In other words, all the powers plus the legal ownership of ECKANKAR
property and assets became vested in Harold Klemp, personally.
What really happened is that Klemp did precisely what he was falsely
accusing Gross of doing, when in fact Gross had not done anything of the
kind. That Gross was removed as President and his employment terminated
by a majority of the Board of Trustees in August 1983 in fact proves what
Klemp was claiming was the case was completely untrue. ]
---
H.K.:
And it' almost like a window of miracles that I was able to move in.
There's a hole story behind this too. But it happened, and he tried to
sow up his power in the presidency.
All the power in our organization is vested in the president. If you
know anything about organizational structures or ours especially, you
have the Living ECK Master, Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees
then hires someone called the president, therefore it's a backward kind
of thing.
It's not like the worlds of God where the power comes from top on down,
where there is Sugmad, and then Sat Nam, Kal Niranjan, Jot Niranjan and
then down here. It isn't. The president is subject to the board, is
subject to himself in a way. [ That is Double-Speak, and not correct. ]
I want to put it back to the Living ECK Master and finally you're stuck
with me and all you can do is say, hey when the ECK says the Rod is too
hot to handle, it's going to get him out the way it made the transition
in 1981. So you're stuck with me. (applause)
[ A large section is cut from the document ]
[ Questions and answers given ]
************** (end of side 1) **************
--- ---
H.K.:
The next thing is, how to address the membership and the others. I
found something very interesting even at the ECK office when this was
just starting to happen, all these things. We didn't even know alot of
the facts ourself, you know, what was really happening, what was the
thrust of all this, where was the property, how much property, how many
corporations were there really and all this.
We didn't know any of this, we had to find, dig, and all this, send out
searches, legal searches, all this, title searches. The staff said, they
wanted to know, they really really wanted to know what was all behind
this.
And so we gave them the full thing, we dumped on 'em and they couldn't
handle it. And so I stepped back and I said alright, maybe we've got to
follow the principle of the hierarchy working from the top on down.
Somehow we have to use consideration for the other person and not just
load 'em with facts when it may not be following the thing, "is it true,
is it necessary, is it kind".
It may be true, but is it necessary. It may be true and it may be
necessary, but is it kind. So it's your judgement. I gave some of the
8th initiates information about what to say, about the situation as it
developed, so that if anyone ask 'em they could tell somebody else and it
was amazing, within a three hour space of time I got a call from the East
coast, they said hey, Harold, this is what's happening out there and they
said, "Harold said to Patti that" and then there was a mix, a happy or
unhappy mix of a portion of what I said and the rest was something from
some other plane. So what I am saying is, you'll have to use judgement.
First we had to come to grips with it ourselves. My wife, she's been in a
long time, she had a hard time with some of these things and it got in the
way of our family life as a matter of fact.
She started getting upset in different areas and never traced it back to
this extreme negative flow that was pouring into our household as I had
to handle all the phone calls coming home. Finally I just had insist we
talked about it and we finally figured out what was causing this in our
family. And we said it has to be this pure negative flow coming in.
So I said listen, it's my job to handle it, because it's my job. But I
said, I'm not going to talk to you about and give you a blow by blow
account because I said, it's just not right. It's breaking alot of things
up and it's making it bad for our family.
So consider that too. Whatever you hear here today, I don't know, I can't
tell you what judgement to use. But is it true, is it necessary, and is it
kind. Be considerate of people who are just coming on the path and as one
of you mentioned, the reason we've been quiet, probably 80% of the
membership, really knew nothing of what was happening.
And out of consideration for these, why blast it. We've got the mailing
facilities. I could have just been blasting out all kinds of information.
We have the mailing list. I could have done it. But you can't get the
full story in a letter and it's going to harm some of the people who are
just getting on the path and their legs are still shaky.
How far can we go protecting the people who are trying to establish
themselves spiritually. I don't know, it's up to you. It's your
responsibility now.
Ah, I'd like to go in back further. Just so, so you're pretty well assured
this isn't assaulted ah, well, alright Chris [Morris ex-trustee and
employee] has something to say, I just said this and he was on the
management team, but go ahead Chris, (laugh) well.
[A section of comment & questions is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
Whosoever reached the spiritual heights, does he have to be careful
and ah the other question about Letters to Gail III.
Paul had written these letters to Gail as a private thing and they weren't
meant for the whole world to see. In it he had techniques how to kill
people, how to use the tractor and retractor beams to tear a person apart.
This is not the kind of thing I want to be responsible for going out there.
When Darwin had this edited, they kept all this stuff in there, just a few
instances of it. The final editing hadn't been one. Patti had been trained
by Paul to edit the Works according to the way it was. Not as a
proofreader, which is a very mechanical, is the "and" right, is the comma
here and all this, no, but to put the ECK in and in some cases Paul had an
association with other groups and then he'd say I want this in, I do not
want this in.
[This was referred to as "fitting out" the writings for Eckankar.]
But in this case we've left it in. But when these techniques were in how
to kill people and unleashing that on this world, we've got enough problems.
I had the thing shredded. There were, I don't know how many of them. But
Patti edited books I and II under Paul's direction and she was excluded
deliberately from editing book III and this thing came out.
It hadn't the final editing. There's alot of editing that goes on in any
book for those of you who are writers. And so I've asked her again to go
through and edit it and she 's gone through it one by one. I've got it in
my desk now. I hope to go through it before I go to the South Pacific. Um
that's about a week, a week and a half. And then back to Patti again to go
through it, and then it's going into typesetting. I don't know if we'll have
it by the Youth Conference, but I want the thing to be gone over and at
least to match the works that were released during the time when Paul was
alive.
Because many of the manuscripts Paul had finished, they were unedited, they
were unfinished. He was putting them together. They were manuscripts he had
written years before. He hadn't been able to sell them because ECKANKAR
hadn't come out, and now he put them together, and he had to outfit them for
ECKANKAR.
And this is how it was and that's why Willie made a good point. Have we
built a path around the writings of Paul. No. Sometimes we think we have.
But we haven't. It's on the Light and Sound and it's on your own experience
of the Light and Sound. And it's always this.
And this is what happened. I took the thing back and I want to make sure
that these things go out. If it was a private letter, that the private
things that could destroy people, these things are taken out. And there are
a few techniques in there which are very bad. They've been used as a matter
of fact. (clapping) Yeah Ted, do you have someone over there.
[A section of comment & questions is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
We've got other things coming out first, that are alot more urgent.
I've got things lined up that I want to run through Patti as Senior
Editor, but I've given her just one thing at a time so that we don't get
scattered. I want one good thing out first, Letters to Gail III coming
out first.
[The LTG 3 did not come out until 1990 in a single hard cover print run.
Prior to that it was only given out as a High Initiate Discourse Series.]
H.K.:
I've got a stack of other things that are going through, some of them are
novels by ECKists and things like this. But I don't want to overload her,
she's already going to be put into other things and otherwise we start
getting scattered again.
You can have a hundred good ideas but if you've only got the resources to
put one in motion, it would be good to select one good move and go after
it 100% rather than 99 at 1% effort. That's what we're doing.
Trying to recognize that we can't do everything and then pick out the
things that need to be done first and do those. Um hmmm. Thank you.
Out, Bob over there somewhere if you can find someone.
[A short section / question is cut from the document]
--- ---
H.K.:
That's another whole area. Okay, we've got a few more minutes before
quarter to. What's happened, many of the Initiation records we had were
destroyed, were by Darwin' orders erased.
[I don't believe that is correct. There is no other evidence to support it.
Gross did take the original files of chelas he had Initiated, but copies
of all these were returned to Eckankar in due course, by agreement post
October 1983.]
H.K.:
We've reconstructed much of this. We don't have very good records right now
about your initiation levels I'm afraid to say. Another thing that was done
and I have to be honest, that people were given the initiations by date and
this is not the way to do it.
Darwin just did whole a bunch here by date and anybody that had 5 years,
they were sent a pink slip. There are some 5th initiates who aren't 5th
initiates. And as, this is, I don't know how to say this, but we've got to
address this too.
And another issue that has to be faced. We've got to go back, and I'm
leaving this in the hands of the ECK, we're going to sit down, as we can get
to all of these things and put out a program of a checking and rechecking
before a person is recommended for Initiation. And then when he gets it,
it's still in the hands of Spirit.
At this point I leave it in the hands of Spirit, for those of you who got it
and weren't quite ready. It's not the kind of thing I do. Because an
initiation to me was, was hard won and earned and I appreciated it and I've,
we've got kind of an inflation in our initiations. You know what that does to
the dollar. (laughing)
It's a hard thing to earn the 5th initiation and it ought to be. Not that it
ought to be, but it generally is, 'cuz your whole life goes "shwt", but some
people haven't had that thing happen. So now there's going to have to be a
settling out period for several years, as these people either leave the path
or they can't handle the vibrations from there and they do outrageous things,
where I'm going to have to set them aside.
I won't do it unless it's for cause, their behavior, what they do out here.
But it's very sad thing that the initiations are treated like a number and
yet we have to set up a whole system whereby it can come through in the
proper way.
People forget that computers are also part of the scheme of the ECK. In the
old days, a Master talked to one person, we didn't need a computer.
But nowadays we're reaching many people and that is the only way we can get
it. But the process has to be set up right.
The selection in the field has to be right, where you just don't tap your
buddy, because he's part of your family and then you send a recommendation
through, knowing that the staff can't go and research this.
---
[Klemp is basically admitting that HIs and Initiators in the field are not
trustworthy in his own mind. Open to "nepotism" and cheating. That head
office "spiritual services" staff cannot go and check these things.
That an 8th Initiate or another HI assisting Klemp personally is unable to
work out for themselves, using their special Eckankar taught inner resources
and common sense to pick up problems along the way and handle it.]
---
H.K.:
There are so many requests that come in on this. Physically, I couldn't
shuffle the papers that fast and so I have to have a screening process.
---
[And this is one of the many difficulties that Gross had been handling
himself for a decade too! Especially in the later years as the membership
kept increasing under his leadership.
Plus handling court cases and the major public attacks against ECKANKAR about
Twitchell's past and the plagiarism issues. Gross also had a lot on his
plate, not least a divorce from Gail as well. This is precisely why Gross
needed a break for health reasons, and the support of someone like Klemp
to break up the workload on the Living ECK master as well as the business
side of running an effective Board of Trustees and Head Office
Administration.
According to the stories put out by Klemp and Co., here and elsewhere, one
would think Gross had been running ECKANKAR all but single handed, with
no support from anyone. With no actively functioning Board, and very poor
accounting and legal advice.
That Gross was now a fully Fallen ECK Master. A Black magician seeking power
and wealth all to his own ends, whilst in the middle of ripping off $ millions
in cash plus the property of Eckankar to start up his own schismatic teaching.
It's really a ludicrous fantasy to lay all these problems and difficulties
onto Gross, alone. Gross was already the LEM in 1981. If power and control
was all he wanted, then all he needed to do was do nothing, and stay put.
For the facts are, the truth is, Gross didn't do that. Now did he?
No Klemp, no new LEM required. Gross could have run the show anyway he
chose to already in 1981. According to Klemp this what he was doing. Reality
and the facts actually tell a completely different more rational and logical
and true story about this historical period of Eckankar.
Here in October 1983 and soon after as well, Klemp in rapid fire lays out for
everyone to hear, see and talk about, all these apparently really important
issues and problems confronting him and ECKANKAR. Supposedly very serious
stuff at this time.
Yet that had arisen as if 'out of the blue' ONLY AFTER KLEMP had been
appointed as the new LEM, didn't it? At a time when there was two ECK masters
guiding the ship. Things like automatic Initiations, emphasizing how difficult
it is for him to handle this now.
This is after he had been in the role for two years already himself. What was
he doing himself all this time? That is the key question needing to be asked
here by the 8ths, the board of Trustees, and the HIs at this meeting in
October 1983.
All the while Klemp and everyone else are totally ignoring the facts that
these very same pressures had been solely on Gross' shoulders for years
already.
This is so much more about presenting an "OH POOR ME" story, loaded up with
a huge litany of:
"It's all Gross' fault, not Klemp's!"
I cannot accept that it was ever as simple as that.
Gross = The Baddie! Klemp = The Goodie, who saved the day?
Far from it. ]
---
H.K.:
Okay. Let's come further front. You know we've got about 5 or 6 minutes and at
that point we have to, let's have one question more, so that we're not right
against the wall. Yes, right there in front, might as well.
[ A section of comments, questions and answers is cut from the document ]
[end quotes]
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Peetee Aitchei
Oct 14, 2014, 12:07:50 AM10/14/14
to
On Monday, 13 October 2014 20:33:29 UTC+11, Peetee Aitchei wrote:
> 1983-10-22 Harold Klemp Speech and Q & A with High Initiates - GROSS v ECKANKAR
>
1983-10-22 HK HI Meeting MISSING Q & A Comments - GROSS v ECKANKAR
> 1983-10-22 Harold Klemp Speech and Q & A with High Initiates - GROSS v ECKANKAR
>
There were some missing sections in the recording of the speech by Klemp
and the Q & A among the High Initiates meeting.
A handful of these redactions have been obtained from an article written
by Darwin Gross in 1990, and are listed below with some additional comments
made by Darwin.
This complete article of comments by Darwin will be reproduced separately.
See:
1983-10-22 HK High Initiates RESPONSE by DARWIN 1990 - GROSS v ECKANKAR
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Original article:
1983-10-22 Harold Klemp Speech and Q & A with High Initiates - GROSS v ECKANKAR
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/__qCBEHPPBQ/apPfU4vYRaEJ
High Initiates Meeting - ECKANKAR World Wide Seminar
GROSS vs ECKANKAR
US District Court - District of Oregon - Civil No. 84-228
EXHIBIT B - PLAINTIFF'S SUR REPLY
---
Quoting extracts from pages 1 - 10:
This recording is from the higher initiates meeting, Saturday morning,
October 22, 1983 at the World Wide Seminar held in Los Angeles, CA.
[...]
This recording is from the higher initiates meeting, Saturday morning,
October 22, 1983 at the World Wide Seminar held in Los Angeles, CA.
The 8th Initiates were introduced:
Comment by Darwin Gross:
Four "eighth initiates" demanded Harold takeover the Eckankar Corporation in a
letter to certain Trustees (concealed from myself, Alan Nichols and Bob Brant).
The letter was signed by four women, most or all of whom were grandmothers.
It was used by the conspirators to cover-up the takeover power grab.
---
[ A large section is cut from the document ]
Info from Pages 3 & 4
Q.
"Um. I would of liked to have seen Darwin here to answer questions 'cuz
we're going to hear one side of it, but I'd like as best as you can to
tell us what Darwin's explanation of his actions were." ("Rick", p. 3.)
Comment by Darwin Gross:
a. This is obviously another "planted" question. I was not present because I had been
threatened by takeover leadership with legal action if I tried to attend.(16) The idea
that Skelskey and Klemp can speak for me, the same two men who have stolen my life work
and destroyed my reputation for selfish gain is insanity, but what's new? The entire
takeover is spiritual insanity.
The shocked audience possesses only superficial information. The audience is deceived into
believing deceptive reports and appearances. The assumptions are accepted because they are
not explicit, not out in the open. No warning flags are flown.(17)
The audience is "blind-sided."
It is led to believe that both Skelskey and Klemp are friendly to me! Ambition and greed
have turned both men into deadly enemies but only a handful are in the know. It is a sneak
attack, a day of infamy in a year of infamy.
---
4. "How can you become the spiritual leader and have no say in the physical
organization?" (Skelskey, p. 4.)
Comments by Darwin Gross:
a. This is a plant, an "all-or-nothing" fake choice. In truth, members write and call for help
constantly. It is a full-time job, day and night. The office operation is likewise a full-time
job. One detracts from the other. That is why Paul wanted a smooth business organization, to
relieve the Master of that pressure for more important things. The master only needs to attend
Board meetings and make an occasional office visit.
The board meetings are where the decisions are made and the Master has every opportunity to
coordinate with the business side in that manner.
The fake choice is a cover-up for Skelskey's seizing total power with and through Klemp.
By convincing Harold he should be the only voting member on all corporation's boards, he
overloaded Harold. Also, Harold had no business experience. As a result Skelskey gained
working control as reward for destroying me. The proof is in his becoming president of all
corporations and a note in the house publication explaining that Harold has "stepped aside" to
finish his work".
[...]
The physical organization is not what they think it is. It is only a shell. The spiritual power
is not in a material shell or human organization. It is in the Mahanta consciousness Itself,
the spiritual vehicle established by Sri Twitchell for hundreds of years to come.
I must continue to carry that responsibility in the physical because Harold was so eager
to be taken in by his supposed buddy, sneaky Pete Skelskey. If Pete cannot have it for himself,
he is determined to destroy it for everyone else, Aesop's dog-in-the-manger personified.
b. Skelskey knows the work load. He sat on the board for two years prior. What he is
proposing is impossible for one person to handle. He also knows the audience will not realize
this. He is angling for personal power under the guise of securing "responsibility" for Harold. The
way it worked out is proof Skelskey was looking out for Skelskey, period. The audience doesn't
know Skelskey's hidden agenda of grabbing power for himself. They have been deliberately kept
in the dark, from 1983 forward. That is why I was refused a mailing of my side of the story to the
membership; why my address was not listed in the house publication, and why I have been
repeatedly sued in a total abuse of membership trust and their funds.
c. Klemp and Skelskey know that if the membership ever gets wind of events as they really
occurred, how the wool was pulled over their eyes, and how the big lie technique was used to
render them powerless, they will leave in droves. Klemp and Skelskey want to keep every paying
member on the hook, except those who ask embarrassing questions that is. The latter are
ruthlessly expelled, before others around them get wise to what is happening.
---
5. "There was, uh, a movement of money unbeknownst to the Board of Trustees, uh, which was
a, uh, a broken trust." (Skelskey, p. 4.)
a. Skelskey knows he personally voted to move membership trust fund certificates on deposit
to the Oregon Bank, that the interest might be used for my operation. More authorization was
voted than actually used, in point of fact.
b. Skelskey also knows the audience he is speaking to does not know he voted for transferring
the funds. He simply flim-flams them, knowing that in the rigidly controlled organization he
is setting up, no one will ever be the wiser (so he thinks!) Spirit knows all and what It
knows must become known. That is truth. It is a reality overlooked by the dictators, con
men and takeover plotters of all time, why they always come to grief. The average person has no
way to uncover or combat organized, massive lying, but Spirit does. When the cup of their iniquity
is full, the ancient wisdom explains, the law of compensation will have the final word.
c. This bold lie shows Skelskey as architect of the takeover plot. An innocent man was ruined
to cover-up for the takeover conspiracy. It appears likely as a consequence that it may also
have been Skelskey who influenced Klemp's decision to "jump the gun", to seize by stealth and
deception what he could have earned, had he only been willing to persevere and accept the
discipline of training.
In retrospect, anyone capable of doing what Klemp did is not ready for the position. Klemp,
knowing his own secret thought processes, apparently became convinced he would not make the
grade. He elected to betray his mentor, stabbing me in the back.
---
7. "He and he alone decides what he wants to do in the physical organization".
(Skelskey, p. 4.)
Comments by Darwin Gross:
a. The first corporation sole filing is over two years away but Skelskey's statement is
prophetic. The independent Board of Paul's day and mine is doomed. The majority trustees
forfeited their independence. When the Trustees installed Skelskey-Klemp they signed a
declaration of dependence. The new policy is one-man rule.
b. The enunciated takeover policy was subsequently written into law. Two years after the
subject meeting of higher initiates, Minnesota corporation papers were signed by Klemp and
notarized October 9, 1985, (shortly after the Settlement Agreement with Sri Darwin Gross).
The papers were actually filed January 30, 1987. (Minnesota was the third corporation to
be denied trustee voting control. It was formed as a corporation sole, unlike Nevada and
California, both of which were governed by majority vote of trustees, prior to being
amended by Klemp.)
---
8. "He's (Darwin) out there telling all kinds of things, including he has told people
that he has no money for food and they are sending him money for food. Now when you're
making $80,000 a year you can eat pretty well."
"So we are um talking because the other side is being told and is and we were accused
even of a cover-up. There is no cover-up. We are trying to avoid an open confrontation,
but its being triggered off anyway." (Simpson, p. 4.)
Comments by Darwin Gross:
a. Simpson knows I was confronted with large legal fees in defending against corporation
lawsuits, the first of which was filed two days after the takeover.(21) As an insider she
must have known or could have known the corporation had a gun at my head, demanding I be
quiet and disappear if I wanted a pension and medical benefits.(22)
Discovering my convictions were not for sale, they broke the promise given by themselves
and by former trustees, a promise I relied upon to my great detriment. Faced with complete
loss of my income, medical benefits and facing expensive litigation in addition, I
conserved meager funds for legal expense as much as possible, living pretty much on
distilled water and brown rice for months at a time.
Even then I couldn't afford to appeal a bad decision, an appeal that several experts said
I was certain to win. Winning would have only meant more appeals by the corporation, an
effort I would have had to match. If I won in the highest court, it would only have resulted
in the case being sent back for trial, where it should have been in the first place. By then
the costs would have added up to far more than I had available going in, all before the cost
of trial itself!
Like so many other Americans, I simply found the price of justice too high. I had to walk away,
all the while knowing I had every right to the retirement contract I earned from the corporation.
I should never have been placed in the position of having to sue for it in the first place. That
is on Harold, Pete and the Board of Trustees.
b. The conspirators' idea of avoiding a confrontation is for me to roll over and play dead while
they invent and lap up vile gossip about my character. The confrontation was triggered by extreme
suspiciousness, disloyalty and ambition. My fault was to trust them far more than they deserved.
Yet I have to trust those who ask me for help, to a considerable extent, or I can't assist
in bringing out the best potential an individual has. Judgmental doesn't get it. Trust leaves
one in a vulnerable position. Fortunately not every one betrays the one they turn to for help.
That conduct is reserved for channels of the negative power, and by those who have been deeply
confused by such channels.
c. Simpson's statement that my side is being told is contradicted by the fact they would NOT
let me tell my side to the membership. The membership has NEVER been allowed to learn of my
side. The fact is, Simpson and associates are doing the talking. They are talking about letting
me talk but they never do so. It is vintage double talk, a real shuffle on the audience.
--- ---
[A section of comment & questions is cut from the document]
"Each member of the board was hand-picked by Darwin Gross. This has been
Darwin's Board ... Harold any time for any reason, you can remove any of us
... We're going to see ... that no president, no general manager, can
impugn the living Master again. The living Master will pick the board.
Not as it was done in the past." (Skelskey, p. 7).
Comments by Darwin Gross:
Can any listener unscramble this concoction? It is in code, intended to confuse.
First, its said to be a board handpicked by me. Second it is said that Klemp will do the
picking from now on. Third it is said that the second is not the way it was done in the
first instance! The sophists are hard at work confusing the audience. Did people fall for
this contradiction in terms? You bet they did. Look at the results.
Ninety-five percent of those present were initiated under me, yet ninety-five percent of
that number swallowed it like so many guppies. Like I say, Kal has a temporary advantage
down here.
Just for the record, I did not introduce all nominations to the board. Peter Skelskey is
a case in point [I the summer of 1981]. I'm glad I don't have that one on my conscience!
Klemp is quite enough, thank you.
I didn't put much time or attention on the physical organization, nor did Paul. That is why
so many tricks were slipped over on us, a circumstance not appreciated by the great majority
who have never worked that close to what really happens with those carrying the true
spiritual mantle. Most people think if it came from the office with corporation name on it,
we must have approved it in advance.
I got to see most things the same way everyone else did, after the fact. Paul and I had more
important things to do with our time, to get the message out and help the students. That is
what I was trying to do for Harold, hanging in there, bad health and all; trying to keep the
business off his back. He turned on me, beating me over the head with my concern for his
success.
I eventually got around to telling Harold how his returning of evil for good was so extreme
a case he had given ingratitude itself a black eye, no easy task since it already has one
of the worst names in the language.
--- ---
Closing summary comments by Darwin Gross about the Oct 22, 1983 HI meeting.
Monumental ingratitude and a jugular instinct are the only two things I can think of in
which he showed real proficiency. Both are negative talents and have no part in the tradition
I received from Paul. He was an extremely appreciative human being and compassionate beyond
measure.
Harold's claim to succeed me, and Peter's claim to succeed Paul Twitchell,(36), is lewdness
in the Cathedral for sure, right off the astral plane, per The Tiger's Fang by Sri Twitchell.
I don't have time to cover the entire proceedings of 10-22-83. Suffice it to say it is more
of the same pious fraud. How could this have happened? Paul warned in a special brochure he
and I had widely distributed, of Dangers of the Psychic World for Truth Seekers.(37) Harold
has described his psychic experiences in Child in the Wilderness.
Had I known, I would not have nominated him for the stress of seeking the mastership. It is
not a role for those subject to mental breakdown. I would have worked with him first in an
effort to help him get a stronger foundation.
A lot of things have happened since 10-22-1983, but I will leave that to another time. The
contradictions continue, I can say that much anyway. For example, Harold wrote in the Spring
of 1984 "Why do so many paths to God compete with each other to lure innocent people away
from their beliefs?"
Yet in the Stranger by the River, (Klemp revision recently published), a spiritual master is
portrayed with a field of crosses. It is a blatant attempt to influence Christians, pulling
them off their path.
Paul and I have always emphasized that if people are satisfied in the church, temple of
synagogue, they should stay where they are. Christian symbolism is misplaced in Paul's
universal works. He respected the truth where ever he found it, not in one particular
religion but in all.
It is not a proper presentation of Sri Paul's writings, I can assure you of that, just in
passing of course!
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