Not Unusual

[Etznab]

Harold wrote, in part:

"[...] The first feeling that comes at the death of an ideal is denial: Tell me it ain't so. The second stage is anger. In the third stage, a person wants to bargain: Maybe we can mediate this--isn't there a way it can be worked out? Next comes depression, and finally, acceptance. [... .]"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

*********

With regard to the following:

"Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday?"

There appear to be at least three different versions of what Harold
Klemp said concerning a particular sentence in excerpts I recently
quoted. For the three different versions I'm talking about, refer to
the following sentences:

(1) " 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, [... .]" -

Based on Doug Marman's version in his 2000 online book.

http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm

(2) "[...] For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

- Version based on 1984 (April) Eckankar International Youth Conference, audiotape 4312, copyright 1984, side two (near the end).

(3) "[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

- Based on: Eckankar transcript version in Harold's book and on the
official Eckankar website.

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/8_wBxuhcsJg/ehjUgrTGwzQJ

Greater context can be viewed after locating the three transcripts. Here is Doug evidently quoting Harold Klemp:

"I'm doing all this research in a soundproof booth so it doesn't disturb the other people who are doing research. As I look over at a table, I see Paul - busy as usual, researching and writing. He looks at me and says, kind of gruffly, "What's that?"

" 'Source manuscripts, ' I say.

" 'For what? ' he asks.

" 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, ' I reply.

" 'Oh, ' he says. 'Well, we'll have to do something about that someday. '

"Then he picks up his notebook and leaves, heading out into the stacks.

"Yeah, I thought to myself, and I know who is going to have to do something about that someday! "

This part is fairly straightforward, imo.

'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from,'

Not much different in meaning from the 1984 audiotape

"For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

However, How did the following result?

"[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

Doug (and evidently Harold, too) had referred to the "sources" of Paul's writings.

Example One:

"Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday?"

Example Two:

" 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, ' I reply.

Is it just me? Or does it look like something was changed?

Example Three:

"[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

Keyword search "done on earth"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

*********

In a couple of those quotes I saw the words "writings on earth came from". And isn't this precisely the topic discussed for eons (just kidding) already at a.r.e.? I mean, a topic many people wanted to know the truth about. Essentially, Where did the writings on earth come from?

This, in part, is what appears on the official Eckankar website (no place on this page appear the words "writings on earth came from"). Quoting ...

[...]

I'm doing all this research in a soundproof booth so it doesn't disturb the other people who are doing research. As I look over at a table, I see Paul--busy as usual, researching and writing. He looks at me and says, kind of gruffly, "What's that?"

"Source manuscripts," I say.

"For what?" he asks.

"For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth," I reply.

"Oh," he says. "Well, we'll have to do something about that someday." Then he picks up his notebook and leaves, heading out into the stacks.

Yeah, I thought to myself, and I know who is going to have to do something about that someday!

ECKANKAR International Youth Conference,
Las Vegas, Nevada, Saturday, April 21, 1984

Excerpted from The Secret Teachings, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 3, copyright (c) 1989 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved.

Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound of God
Copyright (c) 2016 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved. ECKANKAR Privacy Policy
Last modified October 6, 2014 ... end quote.

*********

IMO, it looks like words moving attention away from:

"where a lot of the Eck writings on earth came from"

to

"a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth".

This is just my opinion, but it seems the former could possibly apply to the writings of Paul Twitchell (iow, source manuscripts about where a lot of the Eck writings on earth came from). Versus the latter, that could possibly apply to the writings of Harold Klemp (iow, source manuscripts for a lot of the Eck writings to be done on earth).

I think there is, perhaps, an important difference between writings that had already come vs. writings to be done. Why did Harold originally speak about source manuscripts ...

"For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

and why did Paul Twitchell and Harold Klemp both remark about having to do something about that someday?

IMO it makes more sense (in this particular context) to (have to) do something about what already has been done vs. having to do something about what is yet to be done. One has to hear the tone of Harold's voice and the reaction of the audience to really get a feel for the moment and what was actually said. And I am trying to say that it seems to me the talk was about "source manuscripts" for Paul Twitchell's writings, or the Eck writings that had been done on Earth.

Look at some of the blue bold text titles on the page. Example:

The Writing of Paul Twitchell
Beginnings of Eckankar
Early Books and Discourses
Master Compiler
Death of an Ideal
Finding Truth

Btw, The Finding Truth section includes:

"[...] You're going to hear so many different versions of what is truth and what is not that finally you can't believe anyone. This is good, because it puts the responsibility back upon you to learn how to get the answer for yourself. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take someone else's word for it -- and this is not a position you want to be in as a person who's looking for spiritual freedom. [... .]"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

It seems that Harold was partly speaking about people getting the answer for themselves. There seemed to be a lot of that kind of thing back then.

"Somebody asked Paul why he didn't simply look into the ECK-Vidya whenever he needed to know something. He said he didn't want to take all the surprise and adventure out of life. I feel the same way. It's more fun to find out yourself rather than be told. This is why the ECK initiates go out and find material about Sudar Singh themselves."

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man2.html

More fun to find out for one's self? Umm ... yeeaaahh ... I've been finding the words of Rebazar Tarzs in books by other people and created and written as the words of OTHER PEOPLE! Like real LIVING people!

I know that I am having fun. Question is, Are WE (all of us) having fun yet with "Finding Truth"?

Has Kinpa found it fun to learn I had a current Eckankar membership card at the same time he was telling me I didn't?

Don't take my word for it, Kinpa. Go have fun and find out for yourself! Then come back here and kindly apologize for being a cyber bully liar!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/7HgHTx3no1M/HyQCc1S3BAAJ

[Henosis Sage]

Yes.

This is one of the most important factoids outlined here by etznab that arose discussing Eckankar history on a.r.e.

so clear is the twists and turns and the avoidance, the denial, and the manipulation of folks.

What a sorry tale (barely) no one in eckankar who looks up to people like Harold knows about.

Oh well. That's life I guess.