Following in the Footsteps of Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin

[Mark Rogow]

Following in the Footsteps of Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin

"On the other hand, when I proclaim that the practitioners of the Nembutsu will fall into the hell of incessant suffering or declare that the Zen and True Word schools are likewise in error, people may think I am uttering harsh words, but in fact I am speaking truthful and gentle words. As an example, I may point to the fact that Dozen-bo has embraced the Lotus Sutra and fashioned an image of Shakyamuni Buddha, actions that came about because I spoke harshly to him. And the same thing holds true for all the people of Japan. Ten or more years ago, virtually everyone was reciting the Nembutsu. But now, out of ten persons, you will find that one or two chant only Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, while two or three recite it along with the Nembutsu. And even among those who recite the Nembutsu exclusively, there are those who have begun to have doubts and so in their hearts believe in the Lotus Sutra; some have even begun to paint or carve images of Shakyamuni Buddha. All this, too, has come about because I have spoken harsh words.

This response is like the fragrant sandalwood trees that grow among the groves of foul-smelling eranda trees, or lotus blossoms that rise from the mud. Thus, when I proclaim that the followers of the Nembutsu will fall into the hell of incessant suffering, the "wise men" of our day, who are in fact no wiser than cattle or horses, may venture to attack my doctrines. But in truth they are like scavenger dogs barking at the lion king, or foolish monkeys laughing at the god Shakra."

We can include Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam along with the Nembutsu, True Word, Zen, and Therevada. SGI can not make the connection because they follow the devilish slanderer Ikeda rather than Nichiren. Even the Daimoku can not penetrate the hearts of such slanderers. As long as they remain in the SGI, they will never gain a correct view. Their Object of Worship is mistaken. Their faith is lame.

"If, knowing the best path, one sees one's parents or sovereign taking an evil path, can one fail to admonish them? If a fool, crazed with wine, is about to drink poison, can one, knowing this, not try to stop him? In the same way, if one understands the truth of the Buddhist teachings and knows the sufferings of fire, blood, and swords, can one fail to lament at seeing someone to whom one owes a debt of gratitude about to fall into the evil paths? Rather one should cast away one's body and lay down one's life in an effort to save such a person."

"How reassuring, that those who respect the monks of the correct teaching and admonish those who are evil and in error receive such blessings as these!."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one's teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them," (The Three Obstacles and four Devils)

"How could I ever feel distantly toward any of you? Even in the case of the Nembutsu priests, the Zen priests, and the True Word teachers, and the ruler of the nation and other men of authority, all of whom bear me such hatred-- I admonish them because I want to help them, and their hatred for me makes me pity them all the more." (Reply to the lay Priest Takahashi)

"The Classic of Filial Piety states, "[In a case of moral wrong,] a son must admonish his father, and a minister must admonish his lord." (The Letter of Petition from Yorimoto )

Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Hindus slander Shakyamuni Buddha and the votaries of the Lotus Sutra, not even aware that their gods follow the Buddha and the votaries .

"The Great Teacher Dengyo states, "In general, where unrighteousness is concerned, a son must admonish his father, and a minister must admonish his lord." (ibid.)

"Yet not only do they fail to remonstrate with them, but they criticize one who does confront the Nembutsu school, which is strange indeed! As for Daishin-bo, as I wrote you before, please strongly admonish him by letter." (The third Doctrine)

The SGI leaders, far from admonishing these heretics and heretical philosophies and religions, pander to them through their interfaith activities. The only ones they admonish are the True Votaries of the Lotus Sutra. It will be no small occurrence if they don't suffer some great loss for acting contrary to the Lotus Sutra and teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.

"It stipulates that, no matter how learned one may be, if one sees an enemy of the Lotus Sutra but fails to admonish that person out of fear, one will fall into the hell of incessant suffering." (Letter to Akimoto)

We can only conclude that the SGI fails to speak and act as Nichiren Daishonin out of fear and cowardice.

"The high minister Pi Kan, seeing that the Yin dynasty was on the path to ruin, strongly admonished the ruler, though it cost him his head." (Opening of the Eyes)

The entire world is based on Chistianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism. They are paths to war and ruin. But SGI seeks support and guidance from these slanderers and give them support and succor.

"But because Kuan Lung- feng remonstrated with King Chieh of the Hsia dynasty and Pi Kan admonished King Chou of the Yin dynasty, their names have been handed down in history as those of worthies." (op cit. Letter of Petition to Yorimoto)

That is why Nichiren Daishonin and his true disciples will be remembered for ten thousand years and more and Ikeda and his disciples will be forgotten.

"Nichiren, who admonishes them for their evil, is father and mother to the ruler, and the teacher of all living beings." (The Royal Palace)

And we too are fathers and mothers to the rulers and the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and provisional Buddhist religious leaders. Why? Because we admonish them for not embracing the Lotus Sutra and chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo. If you chant the Daimoku but you don't like Nichiren Daishonin or Nichiren Daishonin's way, you are not true to yourself and your words are hollow.

"Is not a person of wisdom one who admonishes the ruler when the country is endangered or corrects others' mistaken views? But in your case, no matter what error you may see, you will no doubt refuse to correct it for fear of society's reaction." (op. cit. Yorimoto)

"In the Lotus Sutra, it is stipulated that those who bear a grudge against its votary are destined to fall into the Avichi hell. The fourth volume states that the offense of harboring malice toward a votary of the Lotus Sutra in the latter age is graver than that of reviling the Buddha for an entire medium kalpa. The seventh volume teaches that people who disparage the votary will suffer in the Avichi hell for a thousand kalpas. The fifth volume states that after the Buddha's passing, when the Latter Day of the Law arrives, a votary of the Lotus Sutra will certainly appear, and that at that time, in that country, an immeasurably great multitude of monks who either uphold or violate the precepts will gather and denounce the votary to the ruler of the country causing him to be banished and ruined."

Do you think these persecutions happened to Nichiren Daishonin for holding interfaith conferences with the Nembutsu, Zen, Ritsu, and Shingon? Or do you think that he underwent these trials for correcting their errors? Do you think Nichiren Daishonin would compromise with the Christians, Jews, Muslims, or Brahmins? I will not compromise the teachings for a pat on the back and an award or two.

"Question: What eye of wisdom allows you to perceive that the Nembutsu, Zen, and other schools of our time are the enemies of the Lotus Sutra and evil companions who are ready to mislead all people?
Answer: I do not state personal opinions, but merely hold up the mirror of the sutras and commentaries so that the slanderers of the Law may see their ugly faces reflected there and perceive their errors. But if they are incurably "blind," it is beyond my power.

In the "Treasure Tower" chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra we read: "At that time Many Treasures Buddha offered half of his seat in the treasure tower to Shakyamuni Buddha . . . At that time the members of the great assembly [saw] the two Thus Come Ones seated cross-legged on the lion seat in the tower of seven treasures . . . And in a loud voice he [Shakyamuni Buddha] addressed all the four kinds of believers, saying: 'Who is capable of broadly preaching the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law in this saha world? Now is the time to do so, for before long the Thus Come One will enter nirvana. The Buddha wishes to entrust this Lotus Sutra to someone so that it may be preserved.'

This is the first pronouncement of the Buddha. Again the chapter reads: "At that time the World-Honored One, wishing to state his meaning once more, spoke in verse form, saying: 'This holy lord, this World-Honored One, though he passed into extinction long ago, still seats himself in the treasure tower, coming here for the sake of the Law. You people, why then do you not also strive for the sake of the Law? . . . In addition, these emanations of my body, Buddhas in immeasurable numbers like Ganges sands, have come, desiring to hear the Law . . . Each has abandoned his wonderful land, as well as his host of disciples, the heavenly and human beings, dragons, and spirits, and all the offerings they give him, and has come to this place on purpose to make certain the Law will long endure. . . . as though a great wind were tossing the branches of small trees. Through this expedient means they make certain that the Law will long endure. So I say to the great assembly: After I have passed into extinction, who can guard and uphold, read and recite this sutra? Now in the presence of the Buddha let him come forward and speak his vow!'

This is the second proclamation of the Buddha. The passage continues: "The Thus Come One Many Treasures, I myself, and these emanation Buddhas who have gathered here, surely know this is our aim. . . . All you good men, each of you must consider carefully! This is a difficult matter--it is proper you should make a great vow. The other sutras number as many as Ganges sands, but though you expound those sutras, that is not worth regarding as difficult. If you were to seize Mount Sumeru and fling it far off to the measureless Buddha lands, that too would not be difficult. . . . But if after the Buddha has entered extinction, in the time of evil, you can preach this sutra, that will be difficult indeed! . . . If, when the fires come at the end of the kalpa, one can load dry grass on his back and enter the fire without being burned, that would not be difficult. But after I have passed into extinction if one can embrace this sutra and expound it to even one person, that will be difficult indeed! . . . All you good men, after I have entered extinction, who can accept and uphold, read and recite this sutra? Now in the presence of the Buddha let him come forward and speak his vow!"

This is the third admonition from the Buddha. The fourth and fifth admonitions are found in the "Devadatta" chapter, and I will deal with them later." (op. cit. Opening of the Eyes)

"Adherents of the various schools may attempt to attack you by citing the passage from The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom that states, "If one denounces the teachings others follow out of love for one's own, then even if one is the practitioner who observes the precepts, one will never escape the pains of hell." Ask them whether they know why Nagarjuna wrote this admonition, and if Nagarjuna could possibly have been ignorant of how serious an offense it is to slander the true teaching by clinging to provisional teachings. He stated, "The various sutras are not secret teachings; only the Lotus Sutra is secret." He declared that the Lotus Sutra alone is the seed of enlightenment, likening it to a great physician who can change poison into medicine. Is it possible that he later regretted having said these things, and therefore wrote that, if one denounces the teachings others follow out of love for one's own, one will be destined to fall into the evil paths? If so, he would have been directly contradicting the truthful words of the Lotus Sutra, in which the Buddha states, "Honestly discarding expedient means" and "Not accepting a single verse of the other sutras." This is hardly conceivable. Nagarjuna was a bodhisattva who appeared in accordance with Shakyamuni Buddha's prediction, as well as a scholar in the direct lineage of the Buddha's teaching. He may well have written this admonition in his treatise because he foresaw that such priests as Kobo and T'an-luan would slander the Lotus Sutra, the teaching that befits this age of the Latter Day of the Law. You should scoff at your opponents for not knowing the meaning of the words they cite. Tell them: "Are you yourselves not followers of those destined to fall into the evil paths? How pitiful! Are you not to be counted among those who will suffer for countless kalpas to come?" (Teaching Practice and Proof)

"He agonized over what course to take, but in the end, fearful of violating the Buddha's admonition, made known his views to Emperor Kammu." (Selection of Time)

"The Nirvana Sutra states: "If even a good monk sees someone destroying the teaching and disregards him, failing to reproach him, to oust him, or to punish him for his offense, then you should realize that that monk is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if he ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches him, or punishes him, then he is my disciple and a true voice-hearer."

This admonition urged me on, and I spoke out against slander in spite of the various persecutions I faced, because I would have become an enemy of the Buddha's teaching if I had not.Slander can be either minor or serious, however, and sometimes we should overlook it rather than attack it. The True Word and Tendai schools slander the Lotus Sutra and should be severely rebuked. But without great wisdom it is hard to differentiate correctly between their doctrines and the teachings that Nichiren spreads. Therefore, at times we refrain from attacking them, just as I did in On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land.

Whether or not we speak out, it will be difficult for those who have committed the grave offense of slander to avoid retribution. Our seeing, hearing, and making no attempt to stop slander that, if we spoke out, could be avoided, destroys our gifts of sight and hearing, and is utterly merciless.

Chang-an writes, "If one befriends another person but lacks the mercy to correct him, one is in fact his enemy." The consequences of a grave offense are extremely difficult to erase. The most important thing is to continually strengthen our wish to benefit others." (The Embankments of Faith)

"The heart of all these passages is the admonition to embrace and believe in the Lotus Sutra in this Latter Day of the Law." (The Embankments of Faith)

"Nevertheless, I was concerned that any admonition would be taken by the ignorant as mere jealousy of his wisdom, and so I refrained from speaking out." (On Persecution Befalling the sage)

"Then the unenlightened man said: "Listening to the teachings and admonitions of a sage like you, I find that the misunderstandings I have labored under in recent days are all suddenly dispelled." (op. cit. Conversations Sage)

"The third volume of the Nirvana Sutra says: 'If even a good monk sees someone destroying the teaching and disregards him, failing to reproach him, to oust him, or to punish him for his offense, then you should realize that that monk is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if he ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches him, or punishes him, then he is my disciple and a true voice-hearer.'

"The meaning of this passage is that, if a person striving to propagate the correct teaching of the Buddha should hear and see others propounding the teachings of the sutras in a mistaken manner and fail to reproach them himself or, lacking the power to do that, fail to appeal to the sovereign and in this way take measures to correct them, then he is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if, as the sutras direct, he is not afraid of others but censures these slanderers himself and appeals to the sovereign to take measures against them, then he may be called a disciple of the Buddha and a true priest."

Yet the SGI teaches that the Zen, Nembutsu, Christians, Muslims, and Hindus of today are somehow different. Nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of sharing the dais with them you should be correcting their errant views.

"Being therefore determined to avoid the charge of 'betraying the Buddha's teaching,' although I have incurred the hatred of others, I have dedicated my life to Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra, extending compassion to all living beings and rebuking slanders of the correct teaching. Those who cannot understand my heart have tightened their lips and glared at me with furious eyes. But if you are truly concerned about your future existence, you should think lightly of your own safety and consider the Law above all. Thus the Great Teacher Chang-an states, ' "[A royal envoy . . . would rather], even though it costs him his life, in the end conceal none of the words of his ruler" means that one's body is insignificant while the Law is supreme. One should give one's life in order to propagate the Law.'

"This passage is saying that, even if one must give up one's life, one should not conceal the correct teaching; this is because one's body is insignificant while the Law is supreme. Though one's body be destroyed, one should strive to propagate the Law." (ibid.)

Doesn't the SGI conceal the True Teaching of the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra by holding these interfaith dialogue. Never once do they utter the lion's roar as did Nichiren during these conferences.

"And what of these admonitions of mine? Because people regard them with suspicion and refuse to heed them, disasters such as those we now face occur." (Three Tripitaka Masters Pray For Rain)

"Now this great evil True Word doctrine has spread to Kamakura, deceiving the members of the ruling clan and threatening to bring about the destruction of Japan. This is a matter of the gravest import, and I have not discussed it even with my disciples. Instead I have dissembled, pretending ignorance and filling their ears only with attacks upon Nembutsu and Zen. But since my admonitions continue to go unheeded, without begrudging even my life, I will also tell my disciples what the true situation is.

"When I do so, they will be even more perplexed, saying that, no matter how admirable or worthy of respect Nichiren may be, he can scarcely surpass Jikaku and Kobo. I fear I will never succeed in banishing all their doubts. How can I dispel them?" (op. cit. Takahashi)

"It is a grave offense to go against these admonitions, and though invisible to the eye, the error piles up until it sends one plummeting to hell." (Fourteen Slanders)

"My admonitions have surpassed even those set forth in the yüeh-fu poems of Po Chüi, and my prophecies are not inferior to those of the Buddha. " (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus Sutra)

"In ancient China, King Chou of the Yin dynasty refused to heed the admonitions of his loyal minister Pi Kan and instead cut out Pi Kan's heart." (ibid.)

"But just as a high wind creates great waves, or a powerful dragon brings forth torrential rains, so my admonitions called forth increasing animosity." (ibid.)

"However, he did not heed my admonitions, but rather began to persecute me even more harshly, so there was nothing further I could do. (op. cit. no Safety Threefold World)

"I, Nichiren, fearing these admonitions of the Buddha, accordingly accused all those throughout the nation who were deserving of it, and more than once I was condemned to exile or to death." (Letter to Akimoto)

"Thus, although Shan-wu-wei, Hsüantsang, Kobo, Jikaku, Chisho, and the others put forth a variety of clever arguments, they could produce no passage of scripture proving the Lotus Sutra to be inferior to the Mahavairochana Sutra. Their whole argument rests solely on the question of whether the sutra includes mudras and mantras. Rather than writing hundreds of volumes of argument, traveling back and forth between China and Japan with their unending schemes, and arranging for the promulgation of imperial edicts in order to intimidate people, they would have been better off producing some clear passage of proof in the sutras themselves. Who then could have doubted their assertions??

Dewdrops accumulate to form a stream, and streams accumulate to form the great ocean. Particles of dust accumulate to form a mountain, and mountains accumulate to form Mount Sumeru. And in the same way, trifling matters accumulate to become grave ones. How much more so in the case of this matter, which is the gravest of all! When these men wrote their commentaries, they should have exerted themselves in examining both the principles and documentary evidence of the two teachings, and when the court issued imperial edicts, it, too, should have delivered its admonitions after thoroughly investigating both sides and citing some clear passage of proof.

Not even the Buddha himself could repudiate his statement that, among all the sutras he has preached, now preaches, and will preach, [the Lotus Sutra stands supreme]. How much less, then, can scholars, teachers, and rulers of states use their authority to do so! This statement [of the Buddha] has been heard by Brahma, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings, and duly recorded in their respective palaces.

So long as the people truly did not know of this statement, it seems that the false interpretations of the teachers I mentioned spread without anyone incurring retribution. But once a person of forceful character has come forward to make this sutra passage known in a bold and uncompromising fashion, then grave matters are certain to occur. Because people have looked down on this person and cursed him, struck him, sent him into exile, or attempted to take his life, Brahma, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings have risen up in anger and become that votary's allies. Thus unexpected censures have come down from heaven, and the people are about to be wiped out and the nation destroyed.

Though the votary of the Lotus Sutra may be of humble background, the heavenly deities who protect him are fearsome indeed. If an asura tries to swallow the sun or moon, its head will split into seven pieces. If a dog barks at a lion, its bowels will rot. And as I view the situation today, the same sort of retribution is happening here in Japan.

On the other hand, those who give alms and support to the votary will receive the same benefit as though making offerings to the Lotus Sutra itself. As the Great Teacher Dengyo says in his commentary, "Those who praise him will receive blessings that will pile up as high as Mount Calm and Bright, while those who slander him will be committing a fault that will condemn them to the hell of incessant suffering."

The person who offered a humble meal of millet to a pratyekabuddha became the Thus Come One Treasure Brightness. He who offered a mud pie to the Buddha became the ruler of Jambudvipa. Though one may perform meritorious deeds, if they are directed toward what is untrue, then those deeds may bring great evil, but they will never result in good. On the other hand, though one may be ignorant and make meager offerings, if one presents those offerings to a person who upholds the truth, one's merit will be great. How much more so in the case of people who in all sincerity make offerings to the correct teaching!" (The Bodies and Minds of Ordinary Beings)

Regarding believers in the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha, Nichiren's compassion and protection was in no way different than a lioness for her cubs. Towards those who would harm the Law and his disciples, he was fearless and uncompromising.

"... But even bodhisattvas with their great compassion, if they make offerings to the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, are certain to fall into the hell of incessant suffering. On the other hand, even those who commit the five cardinal sins, if they show animosity toward those enemies, will definitely be reborn in the human or heavenly world. King Sen'yo and King Possessor of Virtue, who had destroyed, respectively, five hundred and countless enemies of the Lotus Sutra, became Shakyamuni Buddha in this world. His disciples such as Mahakashyapa, Ananda, Shariputra, Maudgalyayana, and other countless followers were people who, at that time, were in the vanguard, defeating the enemy, or killing them, injuring them, or rejoicing in the fight. The monk Realization of Virtue became Kashyapa Buddha. He was a votary of the Lotus Sutra of great compassion who, at that time, urged King Possessor of Virtue to attack the enemies of the sutra as if they were the ones who had betrayed his father and mother in a previous lifetime." (On Recommending This Teaching to Your Lord and Avoiding the Offense of Complicity in Slander)

By making offerings to these slanderers through your interfaith activities you destine yourselves to hell. To have the same mind as Nichiren takes courage.

We are disciples of the Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra. We live his words while others offer lip service to the Daishonin or use him to gain credibility. We will not withold anything of Nichiren Daishonin's teachings because he lived the Sutra and those who criticize his way are nothing but barking dogs. The teaching of Nichiren is the Succession Through the Scrolls of the Sutra. No intermediary like a special priest or Daisaku Ikeda is necessary. The SGI should immediately disband and humbly approach us to receive a True Object of Worship so that they can lessen the karmic retribution they have brought upon themselves. They are not true believers. At best they are parrots of "the Daimoku of SGI". To chant Namu Myoho renge kyo while abandoning and causing others to abandon the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha and expect to attain Buddhahood is as futile as entering a treasure mountain without hands. There is no benefit chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo with one's mouth while chanting Namu Daisaku Ikeda or Namu SGI with one's heart. If it were possible to attain Buddhahood without confronting evil, the Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin would be great liars.

Here is what Nichiren says about those who chant the Daimoku but go against the Sutra:

"They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing blasphemers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucious, they beat their parents' heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.

As far as converting others, Nichiren teaches in, On Establishing the Correct Law for the Peace of the Land:

"How can we do any good thing without criticizing them?"

"We should rather eliminate (this one sided teaching) than perform ten thousand prayers."

"You should stop the fountainhead, you should cut out the root."

"If you wish to realize the peace of our country quickly, you should eliminate them (mistaken doctrines) from our country."

"If the four kinds of devotees of all the countries of the world stop making offerings to the bad priests and take refuge in the Good Law, no calamity will take place."

and finally, in conclusion (very last sentences).

"I will not satisfy myself with the pleasure of believing the Right Law. I will lead others by correcting their mistakes."

This is not just a call for the leaders of the country but a call for his disciples and believers. That is why so many copies of this treatise was circulated. Thanks to Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra, the disciples and believers of Nichiren will overcome the oppression of the Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians and the provisional Buddhists in the west and in India and Southeast Asia.

Now let me say a little bit about defilement and mixing:

"The third is being defiled, which means that the contents can be contaminated. Though the water itself may be pure, if filth is dumped into it, then the water in the vessel ceases to be of any use.'

By exchanging ideas with the heretics in a friendly congenial manner, rather than break and subdue, we ourselves become defiled. Tientai states, "From the indigo, an even deeper blue." When we dilute the indigo through interfaith we get a pale facsimile of the indigo.

"Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra whose mouths are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment, but Namu Amida Butsu the next. This is like mixing filth with one's rice, or putting sand or pebbles in it. This is what the Lotus Sutra is warning against when it says, "Desiring only to accept and embrace the sutra of the great vehicle and not accepting a single verse of the other sutras."

Not accepting a single verse of the other sutras, means not accepting a single verse of the Koran, Bible, Torah or Vedas, let alone the Agamas, the Pure Land, and the Collection Of Wisdom Sutras.

"The learned authorities in the world today suppose that there is no harm in mixing extraneous practices with the practice of the Lotus Sutra, and I, Nichiren, was once of that opinion myself. But the passage from the sutra [that I have just quoted] does not permit such a view. Suppose that a woman who had been the consort of a great king and had become pregnant with his seed should then turn round and marry a man of common stature. In such a case, the seed of the king and the seed of the commoner would become mixed together, and as a result, the aid and assistance of heaven and the protection of the patron deities would be withdrawn, and the kingdom would face ruin. The child born from two such fathers would be neither a king nor a commoner, but someone who belongs not to the human realm.

This is one of the most important points in the Lotus Sutra. The doctrine of the sowing of the seed and its maturing and harvesting is the very heart and core of the Lotus Sutra. All the Buddhas of the three existences and the ten directions have invariably attained Buddhahood through the seeds represented by the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo. The words Namu Amida Butsu are not the seeds of Buddhahood, nor can the mantras or the five precepts act as such seeds. One must be perfectly clear about this point, because this is the fault referred to as being mixed."

These friendly interfaith meetings are mixing the clean with the unclean. These blasphemers must be remanded to the audience. they may not sit on the platform of Unexcelled Enlightenment with the True Preachers of the Dharma. They are not welcome to preach their heretical Dharma in the home or temple of a disciple or believer of Nichiren: "I'm sorry, you will have to sit down and refrain from positing your heretical views, or you will be asked to leave." They may ask questions and they my praise the Lotus Sutra and their votaries but they will have to do so from the audience. Debate is a whole other story. These interfaith SGI meeting are a meeting of the minds, a consensus. There is no compromise with evil, according to Nichiren Daishonin. We must never defer to the provisional Buddhist schools let alone those of the non-Buddhists lest we be guilty of complicity like the SGI.

"The scholars of the various schools continue to cling to the mistaken opinions of their respective teachers. Therefore, they declare that Buddhist practices must be accommodated to the people's capacities, or they defer to the opinions of their founders or try to persuade the worthy rulers of the time to be their allies. The upshot of all this is that in the end they give themselves up wholly to evil intentions, engage in wrangling and doctrinal disputes, and take delight in inflicting injury upon people who are guilty of no fault." (Letter From Teradomari)

These are the causes and effects, the thoughts, words, and deeds of those who go against the Lotus Sutra. One who has the very same thoughts, words, and deeds of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin can never give themselves up to evil intentions, follow evil teachers, or engage in wrangling and doctrinal disputes since we have the same noble intentions, embrace the very same doctrines, and never delight in injuring people who are guilty of no fault. Those guilty of no fault are the disciples and believers of Nichiren. Those guilty of great faults are the Soka Gakkai, the Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Jews.

Nichiren also writes:

"Answer: Chang-an writes: "Hence [T'ien-t'ai's explanation of the title in] the preface conveys the profound meaning of the sutra. The profound meaning indicates the heart of the text, and the heart of the text encompasses the whole of the theoretical and essential teachings." And Miao-lo writes, "On the basis of the heart of the text of the Lotus Sutra, one can evaluate all the other various teachings of the Buddha."

We can also evaluate the non-Buddhist teachings and reveal their fallacies. We can evaluate the devotees of these religions and point out their faults. There is no common ground and there is no compromise. Chant Namu Myoho renge kyo or fall into hell.

Nichiren writes:

"The Great Teacher Chia-hsiang wrote the ten-volume Hokke Genron, and that would under ordinary circumstances have condemned him to fall into the hell of incessent suffering. But he set aside his own manner of reading the Lotus Sutra and served the Great Teacher Tientai, and thus was able to escape the pains of hell." (Akimoto Gosho)

Is interfaith, Nichiren's manner of reading the Sutra? Can anyone say so and back up their point of view? In the Opening of the Eyes he takes to task Confucianism, Brahmanism, Taoism, and each and every provisional Buddhist teaching. Were he aware of Christianity and Islam would he not take them to task? Would he join them in prayers [or friendly discussions], even for the sake of peace? Never. He never did nor would he ever and neither will we [unlike the SGI who is so steeped in slander that they can neither distinguish black from white].

Today all the sects have a different manner than Nichiren Daishonin in the way they read the Lotus Sutra. Their mistaken doctrines and practices are proof that they have their own manner of reading the Sutra. The SGI is so worried about being liked and accepted that they have abandoned the Lotus Sutra and the Supreme Votary. Ikeda is so preoccupied with receiving awards and honors he will compromise with the devil. It is ten thousand, one hundred thousand, one million times better to be hated as Nichiren Daishonin and speak the truth to slanderers:

Among all these men, Nichiren alone deserves to be regarded as the foremost. In what sense is he the foremost?? He is foremost in being hated by men and women..."

He explains why:

"But I, Nichiren, one man alone, declare that the recitation of the name of Amida Buddha is an action that leads to rebirth in the hell of incessant suffering, that the Zen school is the invention of the heavenly devil, that the True Word school is an evil doctrine that will destroy the country, and that the Precepts school and the observers of the precepts are traitors to the nation."

While the modern "reformers" of the Nichiren sect [who I call blasphemers], Daisaku Ikeda, Arai Nissatsu, and Udai-in Nichiki have changed the Four Dictums of Nichiren to fit in with their limited slanderous worldview, the disciples and believers of Nichiren include Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, and Judaism too, as falling under the Four Dictums:

"Because we contemplate the Buddha, ceaselessly devils are quieted; because our words are true, traitors who would destroy the nation are subdued." -Nissatsu

"The modern significance of the four dictums is not limited to the simple refutation of Japanese Buddhist schools, but in fully developing the positive power of human life. This is the Mystic Law of the simultaneity of cause and effect inherent in human life, and to embrace it is to create boundless value."- Ikeda

Nichiren's life and death struggle was a mere "simple refutation" to Daisaku Ikeda. Then he goes on with a non sequitor to change the subject which is offensive to his slanderous ears. This is what all the SGI do when I perform Nichiren Daishonin's practice of Shakabuku, as if it is divorced from Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It is the very heart of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism and our practice for the sake of others.

We embrace Nichiren Daishonin's Four Dictums and expand them to make Eight Dictums, Twenty Eight Dictums, One Thousand Dictims, such as Christianity is the teaching of heavenly demons, Islam is the teaching of blind heretics, Hinduism is the teaching of parasitic worms, and Judaism is the teachings of misanthropes.

I will conclude with more words from Letter to Akimoto:

"Because I do so, from the sovereign on down to the common people, all people fear me more than they would an enemy of their parents, an enemy from a past existence, a plotter of treason, a night raider, or a bandit. They rage, they curse, they strike at me. Those who slander me are given grants of land, while those who praise me are driven from their areas or fined, and the people who desire to kill me are singled out for rewards. And on top of all this, I have twice incurred the wrath of the authorities.

I am not only the strangest person alive in the world today; in the ninety reigns of human sovereigns,6 in the more than seven hundred years since the Buddhist teachings were first introduced to Japan, there has never been such a strange person. I, Nichiren, am like the great comet of the Bun'ei era (1264), a disorder of the heavens such as had never happened in Japan before that time. I, Nichiren, am like the great earthquake of the Shoka era (1257), a freak of the earth that had never before occurred in this land.

In Japan since the history of this country began, there have been twenty- six perpetrators of treason. The first was Prince Oyama, the second was Oishi no Yamamaru, and so on down to the twenty-fifth, Yoritomo, and the twenty-sixth, Yoshitoki. The first twenty-four of these men were struck down by the imperial forces and had their heads put on display at the prison gate, or their corpses left to rot in the mountain fields. But the last two succeeded in overthrowing the sovereign and gaining complete control of the nation, and at that time the imperial rule came to an end.

And yet these various perpetrators of treason are less hated by the mass of people than is Nichiren. If you ask why that should be, I will tell you. The Lotus Sutra contains a passage declaring that that sutra is first among all the sutras. However, the Great Teacher Kobo declares that the Lotus Sutra ranks third, while the Great Teacher Jikaku declares that the Lotus Sutra ranks second, and the Great Teacher Chisho agrees with Jikaku. Hence at present, when the priests of Mount Hiei, To-ji, and Onjo-ji look upon the Lotus Sutra, they read the passage that says the Lotus Sutra is first, but what they understand when they read it is that the Lotus Sutra is second or third in standing.

Neither the nobility nor the warrior clans have any detailed information about this matter. But since the eminent priests in whom they place their faith all subscribe to this opinion, the laity share the same view as their teachers."

In like manner, the disciples and believers of Daisaku Ikeda share their mentor's view that the Lotus Sutra has lost its power in the Latter Age. To support this mistaken view, they cite one or both passages from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin that an ignorant might take as proof, ignoring his more than three thousand citations that exalt the Lotus Sutra. We know why the Soka Gakkai makes such claims while ignoring the vast majority of the writings of Nichiren ... Were their members to embrace the Lotus Sutra and the entirety of the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, they would realize that there is no need for a living mentor in the seat of the Law or an organization that teaches contrary to the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishon

"On the other hand, when I proclaim that the practitioners of the Nembutsu will fall into the hell of incessant suffering or declare that the Zen and True Word schools are likewise in error, people may think I am uttering harsh words, but in fact I am speaking truthful and gentle words. As an example, I may point to the fact that Dozen-bo has embraced the Lotus Sutra and fashioned an image of Shakyamuni Buddha, actions that came about because I spoke harshly to him. And the same thing holds true for all the people of Japan. Ten or more years ago, virtually everyone was reciting the Nembutsu. But now, out of ten persons, you will find that one or two chant only Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, while two or three recite it along with the Nembutsu. And even among those who recite the Nembutsu exclusively, there are those who have begun to have doubts and so in their hearts believe in the Lotus Sutra; some have even begun to paint or carve images of Shakyamuni Buddha. All this, too, has come about because I have spoken harsh words.

This response is like the fragrant sandalwood trees that grow among the groves of foul-smelling eranda trees, or lotus blossoms that rise from the mud. Thus, when I proclaim that the followers of the Nembutsu will fall into the hell of incessant suffering, the "wise men" of our day, who are in fact no wiser than cattle or horses, may venture to attack my doctrines. But in truth they are like scavenger dogs barking at the lion king, or foolish monkeys laughing at the god Shakra."

We can include Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam along with the Nembutsu, True Word, Zen, and Theravada. SGI can not make the connection because they follow the devilish slanderer Ikeda rather than Nichiren. Even the Daimoku can not penetrate the hearts of such slanderers. As long as they remain in the SGI, they will never gain a correct view. Their Object of Worship is mistaken. Their faith is lame.

"If, knowing the best path, one sees one's parents or sovereign taking an evil path, can one fail to admonish them? If a fool, crazed with wine, is about to drink poison, can one, knowing this, not try to stop him? In the same way, if one understands the truth of the Buddhist teachings and knows the sufferings of fire, blood, and swords, can one fail to lament at seeing someone to whom one owes a debt of gratitude about to fall into the evil paths? Rather one should cast away one's body and lay down one's life in an effort to save such a person."

"How reassuring, that those who respect the monks of the correct teaching and admonish those who are evil and in error receive such blessings as these!."

"You should read again and again the previous letter in which I explained that one should of course obey one's teacher, sovereign, and parents, but should they commit wrongs, admonishing them is in fact being loyal to them," (The Three Obstacles and four Devils)

"How could I ever feel distantly toward any of you? Even in the case of the Nembutsu priests, the Zen priests, and the True Word teachers, and the ruler of the nation and other men of authority, all of whom bear me such hatred-- I admonish them because I want to help them, and their hatred for me makes me pity them all the more." (Reply to the lay Priest Takahashi)

"The Classic of Filial Piety states, "[In a case of moral wrong,] a son must admonish his father, and a minister must admonish his lord." (The Letter of Petition from Yorimoto )

Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Hindus slander Shakyamuni Buddha and the votaries of the Lotus Sutra, not even aware that their gods follow the Buddha and the votaries .

"The Great Teacher Dengyo states, "In general, where unrighteousness is concerned, a son must admonish his father, and a minister must admonish his lord." (ibid.)

"Yet not only do they fail to remonstrate with them, but they criticize one who does confront the Nembutsu school, which is strange indeed! As for Daishin-bo, as I wrote you before, please strongly admonish him by letter." (The third Doctrine)

The SGI leaders, far from admonishing these heretics and heretical philosophies and religions, pander to them through their interfaith activities. The only ones they admonish are the True Votaries of the Lotus Sutra. It will be no small occurrence if they don't suffer some great loss for acting contrary to the Lotus Sutra and teachings of Nichiren Daishonin.

"It stipulates that, no matter how learned one may be, if one sees an enemy of the Lotus Sutra but fails to admonish that person out of fear, one will fall into the hell of incessant suffering." (Letter to Akimoto)

We can only conclude that the SGI fails to speak and act as Nichiren Daishonin out of fear and cowardice.

"The high minister Pi Kan, seeing that the Yin dynasty was on the path to ruin, strongly admonished the ruler, though it cost him his head." (Opening of the Eyes)

The entire world is based on Chistianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism. They are paths to war and ruin. But SGI seeks support and guidance from these slanderers and give them support and succor.

"But because Kuan Lung- feng remonstrated with King Chieh of the Hsia dynasty and Pi Kan admonished King Chou of the Yin dynasty, their names have been handed down in history as those of worthies." (op cit. Letter of Petition to Yorimoto)

That is why Nichiren Daishonin and his true disciples will be remembered for ten thousand years and more and Ikeda and his disciples will be forgotten.

"Nichiren, who admonishes them for their evil, is father and mother to the ruler, and the teacher of all living beings." (The Royal Palace)

And we too are fathers and mothers to the rulers and the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and provisional Buddhist religious leaders. Why? Because we admonish them for not embracing the Lotus Sutra and chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo. If you chant the Daimoku but you don't like Nichiren Daishonin or Nichiren Daishonin's way, you are not true to yourself and your words are hollow.

"Is not a person of wisdom one who admonishes the ruler when the country is endangered or corrects others' mistaken views? But in your case, no matter what error you may see, you will no doubt refuse to correct it for fear of society's reaction." (op. cit. Yorimoto)

"In the Lotus Sutra, it is stipulated that those who bear a grudge against its votary are destined to fall into the Avichi hell. The fourth volume states that the offense of harboring malice toward a votary of the Lotus Sutra in the latter age is graver than that of reviling the Buddha for an entire medium kalpa. The seventh volume teaches that people who disparage the votary will suffer in the Avichi hell for a thousand kalpas. The fifth volume states that after the Buddha's passing, when the Latter Day of the Law arrives, a votary of the Lotus Sutra will certainly appear, and that at that time, in that country, an immeasurably great multitude of monks who either uphold or violate the precepts will gather and denounce the votary to the ruler of the country causing him to be banished and ruined."

Do you think these persecutions happened to Nichiren Daishonin for holding interfaith conferences with the Nembutsu, Zen, Ritsu, and Shingon? Or do you think that he underwent these trials for correcting their errors? Do you think Nichiren Daishonin would compromise with the Christians, Jews, Muslims, or Brahmins? I will not compromise the teachings for a pat on the back and an award or two.

"Question: What eye of wisdom allows you to perceive that the Nembutsu, Zen, and other schools of our time are the enemies of the Lotus Sutra and evil companions who are ready to mislead all people?
Answer: I do not state personal opinions, but merely hold up the mirror of the sutras and commentaries so that the slanderers of the Law may see their ugly faces reflected there and perceive their errors. But if they are incurably "blind," it is beyond my power.

In the "Treasure Tower" chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra we read: "At that time Many Treasures Buddha offered half of his seat in the treasure tower to Shakyamuni Buddha . . . At that time the members of the great assembly [saw] the two Thus Come Ones seated cross-legged on the lion seat in the tower of seven treasures . . . And in a loud voice he [Shakyamuni Buddha] addressed all the four kinds of believers, saying: 'Who is capable of broadly preaching the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law in this saha world? Now is the time to do so, for before long the Thus Come One will enter nirvana. The Buddha wishes to entrust this Lotus Sutra to someone so that it may be preserved.'

This is the first pronouncement of the Buddha. Again the chapter reads: "At that time the World-Honored One, wishing to state his meaning once more, spoke in verse form, saying: 'This holy lord, this World-Honored One, though he passed into extinction long ago, still seats himself in the treasure tower, coming here for the sake of the Law. You people, why then do you not also strive for the sake of the Law? . . . In addition, these emanations of my body, Buddhas in immeasurable numbers like Ganges sands, have come, desiring to hear the Law . . . Each has abandoned his wonderful land, as well as his host of disciples, the heavenly and human beings, dragons, and spirits, and all the offerings they give him, and has come to this place on purpose to make certain the Law will long endure. . . . as though a great wind were tossing the branches of small trees. Through this expedient means they make certain that the Law will long endure. So I say to the great assembly: After I have passed into extinction, who can guard and uphold, read and recite this sutra? Now in the presence of the Buddha let him come forward and speak his vow!'

This is the second proclamation of the Buddha. The passage continues: "The Thus Come One Many Treasures, I myself, and these emanation Buddhas who have gathered here, surely know this is our aim. . . . All you good men, each of you must consider carefully! This is a difficult matter--it is proper you should make a great vow. The other sutras number as many as Ganges sands, but though you expound those sutras, that is not worth regarding as difficult. If you were to seize Mount Sumeru and fling it far off to the measureless Buddha lands, that too would not be difficult. . . . But if after the Buddha has entered extinction, in the time of evil, you can preach this sutra, that will be difficult indeed! . . . If, when the fires come at the end of the kalpa, one can load dry grass on his back and enter the fire without being burned, that would not be difficult. But after I have passed into extinction if one can embrace this sutra and expound it to even one person, that will be difficult indeed! . . . All you good men, after I have entered extinction, who can accept and uphold, read and recite this sutra? Now in the presence of the Buddha let him come forward and speak his vow!"

This is the third admonition from the Buddha. The fourth and fifth admonitions are found in the "Devadatta" chapter, and I will deal with them later." (op. cit. Opening of the Eyes)

"Adherents of the various schools may attempt to attack you by citing the passage from The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom that states, "If one denounces the teachings others follow out of love for one's own, then even if one is the practitioner who observes the precepts, one will never escape the pains of hell." Ask them whether they know why Nagarjuna wrote this admonition, and if Nagarjuna could possibly have been ignorant of how serious an offense it is to slander the true teaching by clinging to provisional teachings. He stated, "The various sutras are not secret teachings; only the Lotus Sutra is secret." He declared that the Lotus Sutra alone is the seed of enlightenment, likening it to a great physician who can change poison into medicine. Is it possible that he later regretted having said these things, and therefore wrote that, if one denounces the teachings others follow out of love for one's own, one will be destined to fall into the evil paths? If so, he would have been directly contradicting the truthful words of the Lotus Sutra, in which the Buddha states, "Honestly discarding expedient means" and "Not accepting a single verse of the other sutras." This is hardly conceivable. Nagarjuna was a bodhisattva who appeared in accordance with Shakyamuni Buddha's prediction, as well as a scholar in the direct lineage of the Buddha's teaching. He may well have written this admonition in his treatise because he foresaw that such priests as Kobo and T'an-luan would slander the Lotus Sutra, the teaching that befits this age of the Latter Day of the Law. You should scoff at your opponents for not knowing the meaning of the words they cite. Tell them: "Are you yourselves not followers of those destined to fall into the evil paths? How pitiful! Are you not to be counted among those who will suffer for countless kalpas to come?" (Teaching Practice and Proof)

"He agonized over what course to take, but in the end, fearful of violating the Buddha's admonition, made known his views to Emperor Kammu." (Selection of Time)

"The Nirvana Sutra states: "If even a good monk sees someone destroying the teaching and disregards him, failing to reproach him, to oust him, or to punish him for his offense, then you should realize that that monk is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if he ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches him, or punishes him, then he is my disciple and a true voice-hearer."

This admonition urged me on, and I spoke out against slander in spite of the various persecutions I faced, because I would have become an enemy of the Buddha's teaching if I had not.Slander can be either minor or serious, however, and sometimes we should overlook it rather than attack it. The True Word and Tendai schools slander the Lotus Sutra and should be severely rebuked. But without great wisdom it is hard to differentiate correctly between their doctrines and the teachings that Nichiren spreads. Therefore, at times we refrain from attacking them, just as I did in On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land.

Whether or not we speak out, it will be difficult for those who have committed the grave offense of slander to avoid retribution. Our seeing, hearing, and making no attempt to stop slander that, if we spoke out, could be avoided, destroys our gifts of sight and hearing, and is utterly merciless.

Chang-an writes, "If one befriends another person but lacks the mercy to correct him, one is in fact his enemy." The consequences of a grave offense are extremely difficult to erase. The most important thing is to continually strengthen our wish to benefit others." (The Embankments of Faith)

"The heart of all these passages is the admonition to embrace and believe in the Lotus Sutra in this Latter Day of the Law." (The Embankments of Faith)

"Nevertheless, I was concerned that any admonition would be taken by the ignorant as mere jealousy of his wisdom, and so I refrained from speaking out." (On Persecution Befalling the sage)

"Then the unenlightened man said: "Listening to the teachings and admonitions of a sage like you, I find that the misunderstandings I have labored under in recent days are all suddenly dispelled." (op. cit. Conversations Sage)

"The third volume of the Nirvana Sutra says: 'If even a good monk sees someone destroying the teaching and disregards him, failing to reproach him, to oust him, or to punish him for his offense, then you should realize that that monk is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if he ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches him, or punishes him, then he is my disciple and a true voice-hearer.'

"The meaning of this passage is that, if a person striving to propagate the correct teaching of the Buddha should hear and see others propounding the teachings of the sutras in a mistaken manner and fail to reproach them himself or, lacking the power to do that, fail to appeal to the sovereign and in this way take measures to correct them, then he is betraying the Buddha's teaching. But if, as the sutras direct, he is not afraid of others but censures these slanderers himself and appeals to the sovereign to take measures against them, then he may be called a disciple of the Buddha and a true priest."

Yet the SGI teaches that the Zen, Nembutsu, Christians, Muslims, and Hindus of today are somehow different. Nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of sharing the dais with them you should be correcting their errant views.

"Being therefore determined to avoid the charge of 'betraying the Buddha's teaching,' although I have incurred the hatred of others, I have dedicated my life to Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra, extending compassion to all living beings and rebuking slanders of the correct teaching. Those who cannot understand my heart have tightened their lips and glared at me with furious eyes. But if you are truly concerned about your future existence, you should think lightly of your own safety and consider the Law above all. Thus the Great Teacher Chang-an states, ' "[A royal envoy . . . would rather], even though it costs him his life, in the end conceal none of the words of his ruler" means that one's body is insignificant while the Law is supreme. One should give one's life in order to propagate the Law.'

"This passage is saying that, even if one must give up one's life, one should not conceal the correct teaching; this is because one's body is insignificant while the Law is supreme. Though one's body be destroyed, one should strive to propagate the Law." (ibid.)

Doesn't the SGI conceal the True Teaching of the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra by holding these interfaith dialogue. Never once do they utter the lion's roar as did Nichiren during these conferences.

"And what of these admonitions of mine? Because people regard them with suspicion and refuse to heed them, disasters such as those we now face occur." (Three Tripitaka Masters Pray For Rain)

"Now this great evil True Word doctrine has spread to Kamakura, deceiving the members of the ruling clan and threatening to bring about the destruction of Japan. This is a matter of the gravest import, and I have not discussed it even with my disciples. Instead I have dissembled, pretending ignorance and filling their ears only with attacks upon Nembutsu and Zen. But since my admonitions continue to go unheeded, without begrudging even my life, I will also tell my disciples what the true situation is.

"When I do so, they will be even more perplexed, saying that, no matter how admirable or worthy of respect Nichiren may be, he can scarcely surpass Jikaku and Kobo. I fear I will never succeed in banishing all their doubts. How can I dispel them?" (op. cit. Takahashi)

"It is a grave offense to go against these admonitions, and though invisible to the eye, the error piles up until it sends one plummeting to hell." (Fourteen Slanders)

"My admonitions have surpassed even those set forth in the yüeh-fu poems of Po Chüi, and my prophecies are not inferior to those of the Buddha. " (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus Sutra)

"In ancient China, King Chou of the Yin dynasty refused to heed the admonitions of his loyal minister Pi Kan and instead cut out Pi Kan's heart." (ibid.)

"But just as a high wind creates great waves, or a powerful dragon brings forth torrential rains, so my admonitions called forth increasing animosity." (ibid.)

"However, he did not heed my admonitions, but rather began to persecute me even more harshly, so there was nothing further I could do. (op. cit. no Safety Threefold World)

"I, Nichiren, fearing these admonitions of the Buddha, accordingly accused all those throughout the nation who were deserving of it, and more than once I was condemned to exile or to death." (Letter to Akimoto)

"Thus, although Shan-wu-wei, Hsüantsang, Kobo, Jikaku, Chisho, and the others put forth a variety of clever arguments, they could produce no passage of scripture proving the Lotus Sutra to be inferior to the Mahavairochana Sutra. Their whole argument rests solely on the question of whether the sutra includes mudras and mantras. Rather than writing hundreds of volumes of argument, traveling back and forth between China and Japan with their unending schemes, and arranging for the promulgation of imperial edicts in order to intimidate people, they would have been better off producing some clear passage of proof in the sutras themselves. Who then could have doubted their assertions??

Dewdrops accumulate to form a stream, and streams accumulate to form the great ocean. Particles of dust accumulate to form a mountain, and mountains accumulate to form Mount Sumeru. And in the same way, trifling matters accumulate to become grave ones. How much more so in the case of this matter, which is the gravest of all! When these men wrote their commentaries, they should have exerted themselves in examining both the principles and documentary evidence of the two teachings, and when the court issued imperial edicts, it, too, should have delivered its admonitions after thoroughly investigating both sides and citing some clear passage of proof.

Not even the Buddha himself could repudiate his statement that, among all the sutras he has preached, now preaches, and will preach, [the Lotus Sutra stands supreme]. How much less, then, can scholars, teachers, and rulers of states use their authority to do so! This statement [of the Buddha] has been heard by Brahma, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings, and duly recorded in their respective palaces.

So long as the people truly did not know of this statement, it seems that the false interpretations of the teachers I mentioned spread without anyone incurring retribution. But once a person of forceful character has come forward to make this sutra passage known in a bold and uncompromising fashion, then grave matters are certain to occur. Because people have looked down on this person and cursed him, struck him, sent him into exile, or attempted to take his life, Brahma, Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings have risen up in anger and become that votary's allies. Thus unexpected censures have come down from heaven, and the people are about to be wiped out and the nation destroyed.

Though the votary of the Lotus Sutra may be of humble background, the heavenly deities who protect him are fearsome indeed. If an asura tries to swallow the sun or moon, its head will split into seven pieces. If a dog barks at a lion, its bowels will rot. And as I view the situation today, the same sort of retribution is happening here in Japan.

On the other hand, those who give alms and support to the votary will receive the same benefit as though making offerings to the Lotus Sutra itself. As the Great Teacher Dengyo says in his commentary, "Those who praise him will receive blessings that will pile up as high as Mount Calm and Bright, while those who slander him will be committing a fault that will condemn them to the hell of incessant suffering."

The person who offered a humble meal of millet to a pratyekabuddha became the Thus Come One Treasure Brightness. He who offered a mud pie to the Buddha became the ruler of Jambudvipa. Though one may perform meritorious deeds, if they are directed toward what is untrue, then those deeds may bring great evil, but they will never result in good. On the other hand, though one may be ignorant and make meager offerings, if one presents those offerings to a person who upholds the truth, one's merit will be great. How much more so in the case of people who in all sincerity make offerings to the correct teaching!" (The Bodies and Minds of Ordinary Beings)

Regarding believers in the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha, Nichiren's compassion and protection was in no way different than a lioness for her cubs. Towards those who would harm the Law and his disciples, he was fearless and uncompromising.

"... But even bodhisattvas with their great compassion, if they make offerings to the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, are certain to fall into the hell of incessant suffering. On the other hand, even those who commit the five cardinal sins, if they show animosity toward those enemies, will definitely be reborn in the human or heavenly world. King Sen'yo and King Possessor of Virtue, who had destroyed, respectively, five hundred and countless enemies of the Lotus Sutra, became Shakyamuni Buddha in this world. His disciples such as Mahakashyapa, Ananda, Shariputra, Maudgalyayana, and other countless followers were people who, at that time, were in the vanguard, defeating the enemy, or killing them, injuring them, or rejoicing in the fight. The monk Realization of Virtue became Kashyapa Buddha. He was a votary of the Lotus Sutra of great compassion who, at that time, urged King Possessor of Virtue to attack the enemies of the sutra as if they were the ones who had betrayed his father and mother in a previous lifetime." (On Recommending This Teaching to Your Lord and Avoiding the Offense of Complicity in Slander)

By making offerings to these slanderers through your interfaith activities you destine yourselves to hell. To have the same mind as Nichiren takes courage.

We are disciples of the Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra. We live his words while others offer lip service to the Daishonin or use him to gain credibility. We will not withold anything of Nichiren Daishonin's teachings because he lived the Sutra and those who criticize his way are nothing but barking dogs. The teaching of Nichiren is the Succession Through the Scrolls of the Sutra. No intermediary like a special priest or Daisaku Ikeda is necessary. The SGI should immediately disband and humbly approach us to receive a True Object of Worship so that they can lessen the karmic retribution they have brought upon themselves. They are not true believers. At best they are parrots of "the Daimoku of SGI". To chant Namu Myoho renge kyo while abandoning and causing others to abandon the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha and expect to attain Buddhahood is as futile as entering a treasure mountain without hands. There is no benefit chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo with one's mouth while chanting Namu Daisaku Ikeda or Namu SGI with one's heart. If it were possible to attain Buddhahood without confronting evil, the Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin would be great liars.

Here is what Nichiren says about those who chant the Daimoku but go against the Sutra:

"They entirely look up to groups of icchantikas and rely on them as leaders and, reverencing blasphemers against the Dharma, make them national teachers. Taking up the Classic Filial Piety of Confucious, they beat their parents' heads and, while chanting the Lotus Sutra of Lord Shakya with their mouths, they go against the Master of teachings.

As far as converting others, Nichiren teaches in, On Establishing the Correct Law for the Peace of the Land:

"How can we do any good thing without criticizing them?"

"We should rather eliminate (this one sided teaching) than perform ten thousand prayers."

"You should stop the fountainhead, you should cut out the root."

"If you wish to realize the peace of our country quickly, you should eliminate them (mistaken doctrines) from our country."

"If the four kinds of devotees of all the countries of the world stop making offerings to the bad priests and take refuge in the Good Law, no calamity will take place."

and finally, in conclusion (very last sentences).

"I will not satisfy myself with the pleasure of believing the Right Law. I will lead others by correcting their mistakes."

This is not just a call for the leaders of the country but a call for his disciples and believers. That is why so many copies of this treatise was circulated. Thanks to Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra, the disciples and believers of Nichiren will overcome the oppression of the Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians and the provisional Buddhists in the west and in India and Southeast Asia.

Now let me say a little bit about defilement and mixing:

"The third is being defiled, which means that the contents can be contaminated. Though the water itself may be pure, if filth is dumped into it, then the water in the vessel ceases to be of any use.'

By exchanging ideas with the heretics in a friendly congenial manner, rather than break and subdue, we ourselves become defiled. Tientai states, "From the indigo, an even deeper blue." When we dilute the indigo through interfaith we get a pale facsimile of the indigo.

"Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra whose mouths are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment, but Namu Amida Butsu the next. This is like mixing filth with one's rice, or putting sand or pebbles in it. This is what the Lotus Sutra is warning against when it says, "Desiring only to accept and embrace the sutra of the great vehicle and not accepting a single verse of the other sutras."

Not accepting a single verse of the other sutras, means not accepting a single verse of the Koran, Bible, Torah or Vedas, let alone the Agamas, the Pure Land, and the Collection Of Wisdom Sutras.

"The learned authorities in the world today suppose that there is no harm in mixing extraneous practices with the practice of the Lotus Sutra, and I, Nichiren, was once of that opinion myself. But the passage from the sutra [that I have just quoted] does not permit such a view. Suppose that a woman who had been the consort of a great king and had become pregnant with his seed should then turn round and marry a man of common stature. In such a case, the seed of the king and the seed of the commoner would become mixed together, and as a result, the aid and assistance of heaven and the protection of the patron deities would be withdrawn, and the kingdom would face ruin. The child born from two such fathers would be neither a king nor a commoner, but someone who belongs not to the human realm.

This is one of the most important points in the Lotus Sutra. The doctrine of the sowing of the seed and its maturing and harvesting is the very heart and core of the Lotus Sutra. All the Buddhas of the three existences and the ten directions have invariably attained Buddhahood through the seeds represented by the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo. The words Namu Amida Butsu are not the seeds of Buddhahood, nor can the mantras or the five precepts act as such seeds. One must be perfectly clear about this point, because this is the fault referred to as being mixed."

These friendly interfaith meetings are mixing the clean with the unclean. These blasphemers must be remanded to the audience. they may not sit on the platform of Unexcelled Enlightenment with the True Preachers of the Dharma. They are not welcome to preach their heretical Dharma in the home or temple of a disciple or believer of Nichiren: "I'm sorry, you will have to sit down and refrain from positing your heretical views, or you will be asked to leave." They may ask questions and they my praise the Lotus Sutra and their votaries but they will have to do so from the audience. Debate is a whole other story. These interfaith SGI meeting are a meeting of the minds, a consensus. There is no compromise with evil, according to Nichiren Daishonin. We must never defer to the provisional Buddhist schools let alone those of the non-Buddhists lest we be guilty of complicity like the SGI.

"The scholars of the various schools continue to cling to the mistaken opinions of their respective teachers. Therefore, they declare that Buddhist practices must be accommodated to the people's capacities, or they defer to the opinions of their founders or try to persuade the worthy rulers of the time to be their allies. The upshot of all this is that in the end they give themselves up wholly to evil intentions, engage in wrangling and doctrinal disputes, and take delight in inflicting injury upon people who are guilty of no fault." (Letter From Teradomari)

These are the causes and effects, the thoughts, words, and deeds of those who go against the Lotus Sutra. One who has the very same thoughts, words, and deeds of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin can never give themselves up to evil intentions, follow evil teachers, or engage in wrangling and doctrinal disputes since we have the same noble intentions, embrace the very same doctrines, and never delight in injuring people who are guilty of no fault. Those guilty of no fault are the disciples and believers of Nichiren. Those guilty of great faults are the Soka Gakkai, the Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Jews.

Nichiren also writes:

"Answer: Chang-an writes: "Hence [T'ien-t'ai's explanation of the title in] the preface conveys the profound meaning of the sutra. The profound meaning indicates the heart of the text, and the heart of the text encompasses the whole of the theoretical and essential teachings." And Miao-lo writes, "On the basis of the heart of the text of the Lotus Sutra, one can evaluate all the other various teachings of the Buddha."

We can also evaluate the non-Buddhist teachings and reveal their fallacies. We can evaluate the devotees of these religions and point out their faults. There is no common ground and there is no compromise. Chant Namu Myoho renge kyo or fall into hell.

Nichiren writes:

"The Great Teacher Chia-hsiang wrote the ten-volume Hokke Genron, and that would under ordinary circumstances have condemned him to fall into the hell of incessent suffering. But he set aside his own manner of reading the Lotus Sutra and served the Great Teacher Tientai, and thus was able to escape the pains of hell." (Akimoto Gosho)

Is interfaith, Nichiren's manner of reading the Sutra? Can anyone say so and back up their point of view? In the Opening of the Eyes he takes to task Confucianism, Brahmanism, Taoism, and each and every provisional Buddhist teaching. Were he aware of Christianity and Islam would he not take them to task? Would he join them in prayers [or friendly discussions], even for the sake of peace? Never. He never did nor would he ever and neither will we [unlike the SGI who is so steeped in slander that they can neither distinguish black from white].

Today all the sects have a different manner than Nichiren Daishonin in the way they read the Lotus Sutra. Their mistaken doctrines and practices are proof that they have their own manner of reading the Sutra. The SGI is so worried about being liked and accepted that they have abandoned the Lotus Sutra and the Supreme Votary. Ikeda is so preoccupied with receiving awards and honors he will compromise with the devil. It is ten thousand, one hundred thousand, one million times better to be hated as Nichiren Daishonin and speak the truth to slanderers:

Among all these men, Nichiren alone deserves to be regarded as the foremost. In what sense is he the foremost?? He is foremost in being hated by men and women..."

He explains why:

"But I, Nichiren, one man alone, declare that the recitation of the name of Amida Buddha is an action that leads to rebirth in the hell of incessant suffering, that the Zen school is the invention of the heavenly devil, that the True Word school is an evil doctrine that will destroy the country, and that the Precepts school and the observers of the precepts are traitors to the nation."

While the modern "reformers" of the Nichiren sect [who I call blasphemers], Daisaku Ikeda, Arai Nissatsu, and Udai-in Nichiki have changed the Four Dictums of Nichiren to fit in with their limited slanderous worldview, the disciples and believers of Nichiren include Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, and Judaism too, as falling under the Four Dictums:

"Because we contemplate the Buddha, ceaselessly devils are quieted; because our words are true, traitors who would destroy the nation are subdued." -Nissatsu

"The modern significance of the four dictums is not limited to the simple refutation of Japanese Buddhist schools, but in fully developing the positive power of human life. This is the Mystic Law of the simultaneity of cause and effect inherent in human life, and to embrace it is to create boundless value."- Ikeda

Nichiren's life and death struggle was a mere "simple refutation" to Daisaku Ikeda. Then he goes on with a non sequitor to change the subject which is offensive to his slanderous ears. This is what all the SGI do when I perform Nichiren Daishonin's practice of Shakabuku, as if it is divorced from Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It is the very heart of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism and our practice for the sake of others.

We embrace Nichiren Daishonin's Four Dictums and expand them to make Eight Dictums, Twenty Eight Dictums, One Thousand Dictims, such as Christianity is the teaching of heavenly demons, Islam is the teaching of blind heretics, Hinduism is the teaching of parasitic worms, and Judaism is the teachings of misanthropes.

I will conclude with more words from Letter to Akimoto:

"Because I do so, from the sovereign on down to the common people, all people fear me more than they would an enemy of their parents, an enemy from a past existence, a plotter of treason, a night raider, or a bandit. They rage, they curse, they strike at me. Those who slander me are given grants of land, while those who praise me are driven from their areas or fined, and the people who desire to kill me are singled out for rewards. And on top of all this, I have twice incurred the wrath of the authorities.

I am not only the strangest person alive in the world today; in the ninety reigns of human sovereigns,6 in the more than seven hundred years since the Buddhist teachings were first introduced to Japan, there has never been such a strange person. I, Nichiren, am like the great comet of the Bun'ei era (1264), a disorder of the heavens such as had never happened in Japan before that time. I, Nichiren, am like the great earthquake of the Shoka era (1257), a freak of the earth that had never before occurred in this land.

In Japan since the history of this country began, there have been twenty- six perpetrators of treason. The first was Prince Oyama, the second was Oishi no Yamamaru, and so on down to the twenty-fifth, Yoritomo, and the twenty-sixth, Yoshitoki. The first twenty-four of these men were struck down by the imperial forces and had their heads put on display at the prison gate, or their corpses left to rot in the mountain fields. But the last two succeeded in overthrowing the sovereign and gaining complete control of the nation, and at that time the imperial rule came to an end.

And yet these various perpetrators of treason are less hated by the mass of people than is Nichiren. If you ask why that should be, I will tell you. The Lotus Sutra contains a passage declaring that that sutra is first among all the sutras. However, the Great Teacher Kobo declares that the Lotus Sutra ranks third, while the Great Teacher Jikaku declares that the Lotus Sutra ranks second, and the Great Teacher Chisho agrees with Jikaku. Hence at present, when the priests of Mount Hiei, To-ji, and Onjo-ji look upon the Lotus Sutra, they read the passage that says the Lotus Sutra is first, but what they understand when they read it is that the Lotus Sutra is second or third in standing.

Neither the nobility nor the warrior clans have any detailed information about this matter. But since the eminent priests in whom they place their faith all subscribe to this opinion, the laity share the same view as their teachers."

In like manner, the disciples and believers of Daisaku Ikeda share their mentor's view that the Lotus Sutra has lost its power in the Latter Age. To support this mistaken view, they cite one or both passages from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin that an ignorant might take as proof, ignoring his more than three thousand citations that exalt the Lotus Sutra. We know why the Soka Gakkai makes such claims while ignoring the vast majority of the writings of Nichiren ... Were their members to embrace the Lotus Sutra and the entirety of the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, they would realize that there is no need for a living mentor in the seat of the Law or an organization that teaches contrary to the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin.

[Chas.]

Yet you worship a statue of Shakyamuni, who is only another human being like yourself, as if he were a Hindu god, and worship not Nichiren Daishonin's Gohonzon, which was the product of his struggles to save the human race.

What Shakyamuni, who preached the Lotus Sutra specifically for Nichiren Daishonin must think of that! How astonishing! Folding Hindu practices into the Mahayana, while falling back into the monkish ways way of the shomon and engaku. How pitiful!

From the "Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, Chapter 2, Preaching the Law", p. 12:

. "When bodhisattvas have in this manner observed the
. beginning and end of these four aspects and have understood
. them in their entirety, then they will clearly perceive
. that all phenomena, p.13never abiding from one instant to
. the next, are constantly being born anew and passing into
. extinction, and then they will immediately perceive the
. true aspect of birth, abiding, change, and extinction.
.
. "Once they have gained this perception, then they must turn
. to the capacities, natures, and desires of living beings.
. Because such natures and desires are immeasurable in
. variety, the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable;
. and because the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable,
. its meanings are likewise immeasurable. THESE IMMEASURABLE
. MEANINGS ARE BORN FROM A SINGLE LAW, AND THIS LAW IS
. WITHOUT ASPECT. WHAT IS WITHOUT ASPECT IS DEVOID OF ASPECT
. AND DOES NOT TAKE ON ASPECT. NOT TAKING ON ASPECT, BEING
. WITHOUT ASPECT, IT IS CALLED THE TRUE ASPECT.
.
. "When bodhisattvas mahasattva rest and abide in this
. understanding of the true aspect of all phenomena, then the
. pity and compassion that they put forth will be based on
. clear understanding and not groundless, and they will be
. truly capable of rescuing living beings from the sufferings
. that they undergo. And once they have rescued them from
. suffering, they will preach the Law for them and enable
. living beings to enjoy ease and delight.

I bolded the key part so that you might focus upon it. The object of worship does not take on the aspect of a human form, or that of any living being.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"bolded the key part so that you might focus upon it. The object of worship does not take on the aspect of a human form, or that of any living being."

Er, without aspect simply means inconceivable. Good luck trying to square the quote from Immeasurable meaning, which is provisional in terms of the Lotus Sutra, with the fact that every single one of the ten worlds, negative life, protective forces are all depicted by a personalised representation in the Mandala. A cynic might say that such a Mandala depiction has much more in common with worship of dieties...

Oh and not to be picky or anything but Hinduism is a much later religion and probably a very poor choice to compare, since it is all but impossible for someone not born of that culture to understand it properly.

[kelpzoidzl]

Mark writes:

>>>>>>>We can include Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam along with the Nembutsu, True Word, Zen, and theravadin .........Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Hindus slander Shakyamuni Buddha and the votaries of the Lotus Sutra, not even aware that their gods follow the Buddha and the votaries . <<<<<<<


Such a huge and sad misunderstandings!

Saying these things shows such a shallow grasp of Buddhism -----it's an embarrassment.

Do you even know what "Christianity," "Hinduism," "Judaism" are? Or do you know what Nembutsu or Zen really is?

Literalism can't teach you.

Many call themselves Christians, Hindus or Buddhist, but are not even following the original teachers nor do they even know the true history of their beliefs. They hang on to literalism, because thats all they know of it. They are living in a dream.

The real truth would blow your wittle mind.

In the past I related a story of a developmentally disabled, mentally deranged, pedophilic patient who had been indoctrinated into Mormonism by a missionary. He would constantly quote Mormon quotes like a robot. Remonstrating like a wacko, not knowing what it was he was really even saying. He would copy preachng Even as he went into violent frenzies. His IQ was no more then around 60. Mormonism wasn't the cause of his insanity.

Buddhism s not a belief, thoughts or concepts one believes. It is not dogma. The perceiver and perceived is already inseparable. Why the absurd misunderstandings?

In reality, historically, both Judaism and Buddhism spun out of Brahmanisn. The words Buddha, Bodhi and most all Buddhist terms already existed historically within Hinduism. Egyptian, Sumerian and Persian religions also camefrom the same roots. The basic practice of Samatha Vipasana/Shikan mediation was already the practice of the most ancient vedic hinduism. The Daimoku was always there in one form or another.

Jesus was a buddha. Christos was Krishna. Abraham was Brahma. Idiot retards passed it down garbled. The correct thread of religion was just a handfull of truly experienced buddhas and they are invaribly misunderstood by the common riff raff. . Discarding expedients always begins NOW!

Check the records in the Alaya consciousness. It's all there. Focusing on all the wrong things is pathetic. It is too pathetic to see idiots arguing about things they have no clue about. Its no different then the deranged, brainwashed mormon spouting dogma.

Even though his IQ was 60 and he was a retarded disaster. He was totally arrogant.

It's also alot like ants in the anthill thinking they are so right. Very sad.

[Chas.]

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 10:07:14 AM UTC-8, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> "bolded the key part so that you might focus upon it. The object of worship does not take on the aspect of a human form, or that of any living being."
>
> Er, without aspect simply means inconceivable. Good luck trying to square the quote from Immeasurable meaning, which is provisional in terms of the Lotus Sutra, with the fact that every single one of the ten worlds, negative life, protective forces are all depicted by a personalised representation in the Mandala. A cynic might say that such a Mandala depiction has much more in common with worship of dieties...
>

Actually, the Sutra of Immeasurable Meanings is preached at the beginning of the Lotus Sutra, in chapter one, by the Buddha himself:

. And for the sake of the bodhisattvas he preached
. the great vehicle sutra entitled Immeasurable Meanings,
. a teaching to instruct the bodhisattvas, one that is
. guarded and kept in mind by the buddhas.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/1#para-15

So, it is part of theoretical ichinen sanzen, but not provisional, if I am correctly assessing that. That is why it is included in the book.

> Oh and not to be picky or anything but Hinduism is a much later religion and probably a very poor choice to compare, since it is all but impossible for someone not born of that culture to understand it properly.

Actually the Vedas and the Upanishads go back before the Buddhas time, hence the murder of Maudgalyayana by Brahmins, who detested the new religion. However, the non-Buddhist teachings of India and the pantheonic religion of Hinduism are not worth discussing.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Immeasurable meanings is a separate sutra from the Lotus Sutra proper. This is stated quite clearly in the translation and also within the Gosho by Nichiren. Its status is as 'An opening sutra to the Lotus Sutra', the latter being a seperate and distinct entity.

If you doubt me I refer you to the translators notes in the SGI edition. Additionally, compare the first words of 'Sutra' in the SGI edition, with opening and closing sutras, and the Columbia press edition of the Lotus Sutra proper. Both translations by Burton Watson, both were SGI commissions. So it is simply incorrect to state that Immeasurable Meanings is part of the Lotus Sutra, it is not. Check your facts.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

As I said, your grasp of the development of Hinduism is poor. As demonstrated by your statement.

But then that is unsurprising given that your understanding of your own religion and the difference between opening and closing sutras to the Lotus Sutra as opposed to being an intergral part of it, is so shaky. Please Chas, by all means undermine your credibility even more. This is an even more basic error than your perverse pronouncements on what constitutes the Law.

The clue, that you seemed incapable of being able to grasp, lies in the title...

"The Lotus Sutra
and Its Opening and Closing Sutras"

Further help, for those who cannot understand what opening and closing sutras means, is given in the preface:


http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/toc/

"The present volume offers an English translation of the Lotus Sutra, and of two short sutras, the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra and the Sutra on How to Practice Meditation on Bodhisattva Universal Worthy, that have traditionally been regarded as the opening and closing sutras for the Lotus."

Just to be abundantly clear,

Immeasurable Meanings, comprising 3 chapters. (opening sutra). Jas a Chapter 1,2 & 3.

Lotus Sutra, comprising 28 Chapters in this translation. Has a Chapter 1 - 28

Sutra on How to Practice Meditation on Bodhisattva Universal Worthy, comprising 1 chapter (closing sutras). Has a Chapter 1.

How long have you been practicing? Let me get this right, you have studied the Lotus Sutra, studied the opening and closing sutras yet you have never noticed that chapter 1 of immeasurable meanings has Doggett words to chapter 1 if the Lotus Sutra? You claim to study Mr Ikeda's wisdom of the Lotus Sutra, yet still didn't notice? You claim to be SGI through and through and to be a disciple of Sensei and yet still you didn't notice? I find this all very hard to believe. You Chas, just don't add up. Your knowledge is just too shallow to have been either the devoted disciple of Sensei for as long as you claim. If you are you simply haven't bothered to put any of his earlier exhortations to study into effect, which would certainly explain a lot... I think your either a fake or a Johnny come lately who is trying to make up for lost time but without the benefit of deep and good roots. No wonder you're pronouncements are so confused!

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Oh and before you jump on the reference to immeasurable meanings you cite (which I'm well aware of) check my other post at the end of the Jofukyo thread, where I deal with the matter in more depth. It is not the first time you have conflated references to, with the actual content, presumably in an effort to confuse (or because you simply don't know any better?).

In that post and this, I separate them into their correct places again. I make distinctions as is correct and follow Nichiren's teaching as I do so and as the Sutra itself sets out. My fellows do likewise, we honour our 'father and mother our eyes and our ears', as is right.

Or do you dispute the Lotus Sutra is 'the wisdom of all Buddhas' Chas? Do you dispute that the principal of reliance on the Law takes precedence over all others, including mentor-disciple relationship? Make it plain Chas, just what do you believe? Person or Law?...:)

[Chas.]

I think you are incorrect.

The SGI Dictionary says this:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/I/14

. Immeasurable Meanings Sutra (Chin Wu-liang-i-ching;
. Muryōgi-kyō): Also known as the Sutra of Immeasurable
. Meanings. A sutra regarded as the introductory teaching, or
. prologue, to the Lotus Sutra. It was translated into
. Chinese in 481 by Dharmagathayashas, a monk from central
. India. The sutra describes the Buddha’s preaching on Eagle
. Peak and consists of three chapters. In the first, or
. “Virtuous Practices,” chapter, Bodhisattva Great Adornment
. praises Shakyamuni Buddha in verse on behalf of the
. assembly. This verse section contains the passage known as
. the thirty-four negations, referring to the substance or
. essence of the Buddha. In the second chapter, “Preaching
. the Law,” Shakyamuni explains that all principles and
. meanings derive from a single Law. He then declares:
. “Because their [people’s] natures and desires are not
. alike, I preached the Law in various different ways.
. Preaching the Law in various different ways, I made use of
. the power of expedient means. But in these more than forty
. years, I have not yet revealed the truth,” indicating that
. all the prior teachings were provisional and expedient. The
. final, “Ten Benefits,” chapter explains that by practicing
. this sutra one can obtain ten kinds of blessings. The
. Buddha encourages Bodhisattva Great Adornment and the other
. eighty thousand bodhisattvas present to propagate the
. sutra, and they vow to do so.

Nothing that I can see, other than from you, specifically describes the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra as a provisional teaching.

They say the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is "A sutra regarded as the introductory teaching, or prologue, to the Lotus Sutra."

The Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is preached after Myoho-Renge-Kyo is heard in the title of chapter one, or introduction to the Lotus Sutra. It is preached inside the Lotus Sutra and nowhere else, as far as I can see.

Provisional teachings cannot follow the utterance of the title of the Lotus Sutra.

And provisional teachings do not know the word provisional, that distinction is first drawn in the Lotus Sutra.

Now that is not to say it is the highest teaching, because it is not complete, in the same way that the Nirvana Sutra is not provisional, but is also not complete. Only the Lotus Sutra is both complete and final.

The first word of the title of the Lotus Sutra (Myo) encompasses all of the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren Daishonin. After the Lotus Sutra is preached, none of the Buddha's teachings are provisional.

In fact, I believe it is in the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra that Shakyamuni describes first what is provisional and what is true (in the above references.)

Note that in the "Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, chapter 3, Ten Benefits", it refers to the Lotus Sutra as "this sutra", not "that sutra". This implies, if not identity, at least that it is non-provisional.

If a provisional teaching were used to support the complete and final teaching of the Lotus Sutra as the highest teaching in Buddhism, this would be a structural flaw in the support pf the highest teaching, I believe.

Here are those 59 instances, capitalized:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/3

. “If there are living beings who are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, they will gain great profit. Why? Because if they
. can practice it, then without fail they will quickly gain
. unsurpassed enlightenment. As for those living beings who
. are unable to hear it, one should know that they will lose
. great profit, for though immeasurable, boundless,
. inconceivable asamkhya kalpas may pass, they will in the
. end fail to gain unsurpassed enlightenment. Why? Because
. they will not know about the great direct way to
. enlightenment, but will travel perilous byways beset by
. numerous hindrances and trials.
.
. “World-Honored One, THIS SUTRA is beyond comprehension. We
. beg that the world-honored one, taking pity upon this great
. assembly, will broadly expound the profound and
. unfathomable matters contained in THIS SUTRA. World-Honored
. One, where does THIS SUTRA come from, where does it lead
. to, where does it abide, that it should possess such
. immeasurable benefits, such inconceivable powers, assuring
. to the multitude the quick attainment of supreme perfect
. enlightenment?”
.
. At that time the world-honored one said to the bodhisattva
. mahasattva Great Adornment: “Excellent, excellent, good
. men. It is just so, just so, just as you have spoken. Good
. men, THIS SUTRA I preach is profound, profound, truly
. profound! Why do I say so? Because it assures that the
. multitude will quickly attain unsurpassed enlightenment.
. Because once one hears it, one can uphold all the
. doctrines. Because for living beings it brings great profit
. and enrichment. Because practicing it, one travels a great
. direct way free of hindrances and trials.
.
. “Good men, you ask where THIS SUTRA comes from, where it
. leads, where it abides. Listen carefully and with
. attention. Good men, THIS SUTRA issues originally from the
. dwelling and abode of the buddhas. Its aim is to lead all
. living beings to conceive the desire for enlightenment. And
. it abides in the practices carried out by bodhisattvas.
. Good men, this is where THIS SUTRA comes from, where it
. leads, and where it abides. Therefore THIS SUTRA is able to
. possess such immeasurable benefits, such inconceivable
. powers, and to assure to the multitude the quick attainment
. of unsurpassed enlightenment.
.
. “Now, good men, would you like to hear about the ten
. inconceivable benefits and powers that THIS SUTRA possesses?”
.
. Bodhisattva Great Adornment said, “Please, we wish very
. much to hear!”
.
. The Buddha said: “Good men, the first is that THIS SUTRA
. can cause bodhisattvas who have not yet conceived the
. desire for enlightenment to conceive such a desire. It can
. cause those who are without compassion or benevolence to
. nurture compassionate minds. It can cause those who delight
. in killing and slaughter to nurture minds of great pity. It
. can cause those filled with envy and jealousy to nurture
. minds of joyful acceptance. It can cause those who are
. begrudging and attached to things to nurture minds capable
. of relinquishing. It can cause those who are close-fisted
. and greedy to nurture minds of almsgiving. It can cause
. those of abundant arrogance and pride to nurture minds that
. uphold the precepts. It can cause those much given to wrath
. and anger to nurture forbearing minds. It can cause those
. who are indolent and lazy to nurture minds of diligence. It
. can cause those who are scatterbrained and disordered to
. nurture minds devoted to meditation. It can cause those
. with much ignorance and folly to nurture minds of wisdom.
. It can cause those who are not yet capable of saving others
. to nurture minds set upon saving others. It can cause those
. who practice the ten evil acts to nurture minds devoted to
. the ten good acts. It can cause those who delight too much
. in the conditioned to strive for minds fixed on the
. unconditioned. It can cause those whose minds are given to
. regression to cultivate minds of non-regression. It can
. cause those given to outflows to nurture minds free of
. outflows. It can cause those with many earthly desires to
. nurture minds that cleanse and extinguish such desires.
.
. “Good men, this is called the first benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the second inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, they will be able to comprehend and master
. hundreds, thousands, millions of meanings, so many that
. although immeasurable numbers of kalpas should pass, they
. would never be able to finish expounding the teaching they
. have received and uphold. Why? Because the meanings of this
. teaching are immeasurable.
.
. “Good men, THIS SUTRA may be likened to a single seed from
. which grow hundreds, thousands, ten thousands of other
. seeds, and from each of these seeds in turn grow more seeds
. numbering in the hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, so
. that they keep on increasing in this way until they become
. immeasurable. THIS SUTRA is like this. From a single Law
. grow hundreds and thousands of meanings, and from each of
. those hundreds and thousands in turn grow more, numbering
. in the hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, so that they
. keep on increasing in this way until there are an
. immeasurable, boundless number of meanings. That is why
. THIS SUTRA is called Immeasurable Meanings.
.
. “Good men, this is called the second benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the third inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, and are thereby able to comprehend and
. master hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of
. meanings, then although they have earthly desires, it will
. be as though they were free of earthly desires, and they
. will go in and out of the realm of birth and death without
. thoughts of fear or dread. Toward living beings they will
. acquire minds of pity and tenderness, and they will
. confront all phenomena with brave and stalwart thoughts.
.
. “They will be like a young man of great strength who can
. lift and hold aloft various heavy objects. The person who
. upholds THIS SUTRA will in like manner be able to shoulder
. the weighty treasure of unsurpassed enlightenment and bear
. living beings on his back, carrying them out of the path of
. birth and death.
.
. “Even before he is capable of saving himself he will be
. capable of saving others. He will be like a ship’s captain
. whose body is afflicted with grave illness, whose four
. limbs fail to function properly, and who remains on this
. shore. But he has a sound and durable ship and can always
. explain to others the articles needed to get them over the
. water, so that by providing these he can insure their
. crossing. The person who upholds THIS SUTRA will be like
. this. Though he is afflicted with the body of one who
. dwells in the five realms, constantly beset by one hundred
. and eight illnesses, and though he remains on this shore,
. the shore of ignorance, aging, and death, yet he will
. possess this durable great vehicle sutra, Immeasurable
. Meanings, which explains how living beings can be saved and
. how, if one practices it as it directs, one can escape from
. birth and death.
.
. “Good men, this is called the third benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the fourth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, they will be filled with brave and stalwart
. thoughts. Though they have not yet saved themselves, they
. will be able to save others. They will become companions of
. the bodhisattvas, and the buddhas, the thus come ones, will
. at all times turn toward such persons when they expound the
. Law. And once these persons have heard it, they will be
. able to accept and uphold all of it, abide by it without
. violation, propagate it for the sake of others, and preach
. it widely in accordance with what is appropriate.
.
. “Good men, such persons will be like a prince newly born to
. the king of a country and his queen. When he is one day,
. two days, or seven days old; one month, two months, or
. seven months old; one year, two years, or seven years old,
. though he is not yet able to manage the affairs of state,
. already he is respected and looked up to by the ministers
. and the people. He is a companion to the sons of other
. great kings, and the king and queen love and dote on him
. and are forever talking of him. Why? Because he is still
. just a child.
.
. “Good men, the person who upholds THIS SUTRA will be like
. this. The buddhas, who are the king, and the sutra, which
. is the queen, join together in harmony to give birth to
. this bodhisattva son. If the bodhisattva is able to hear
. THIS SUTRA, whether it is one line or one verse, one
. repetition, two repetitions, ten, a hundred, a thousand,
. ten thousand, or immeasurable, countless repetitions equal
. to the sands of a million ten thousand Ganges Rivers,
. though he cannot fully grasp the extent of its truth, and
. though he cannot make the lands of the major world system
. quake and tremble or with brahma sounds like the roll of
. thunder turn the great wheel of the Law, already he will be
. revered and looked up to by all the four kinds of believers
. and eight kinds of guardians, and he will have the great
. bodhisattvas for his companions. He will enter deeply into
. the secret Law of the buddhas and will be able to expound
. it without error or omission. He will be constantly guarded
. and kept in mind by the buddhas, who will pity and love
. him, favor and shelter him, because he is new in these
. studies.
.
. “Good men, this is called the fourth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the fifth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, accept, uphold, read, recite, or
. copy this profound, unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable
. Meanings Sutra, then although such persons are still bound
. and encumbered by earthly desires, unable to remove
. themselves from the concerns of the ordinary individual,
. yet they will be able to manifest and show to others the
. way of the great bodhisattva. They will be able to expand a
. single day so that it covers a hundred kalpas, or compress
. a hundred kalpas into a single day, causing other living
. beings to rejoice and give wholehearted assent [to their
. words].
.
. “Good men, these good men and good women will be like
. little dragons who, only seven days after they are born,
. are already able to make clouds rise up and rain to fall.
.
. “Good men, this is called the fifth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the sixth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If good men or good women, while the
. Buddha is in the world or after he has passed into
. extinction, accept, uphold, read, or recite THIS SUTRA,
. then although they are still encumbered by earthly desires,
. they will be able to preach the Law for living beings and
. enable them to break away from earthly desires, from the
. realm of birth and death, and to cut off all suffering.
. Once living beings have heard them, they will carry out
. religious practice, gaining the doctrines, gaining various
. stages, and gaining the ways, just the same as if they had
. been taught by the Buddha, the thus come one.
.
. “Suppose, for example, there is a prince who, although
. still just a boy, is entrusted with the management of
. affairs of state because the king is abroad on a journey or
. has been seized by illness. If at that time the prince
. follows the king’s orders and abides by the law in issuing
. directives to the various clerks and government officials,
. guiding the flow of affairs in a proper manner, then each
. of the people of the state will comply with the spirit of
. his instructions, and the order that prevails will be like
. that when the king himself is in charge.
.
. “The good men and good women who uphold THIS SUTRA will be
. the same as this. Whether the Buddha is in the world or has
. passed into extinction, if these good men, though they have
. not yet been able to reach the stage of immobility, follow
. the Buddha’s methods of preaching and giving instruction
. when they expound the Law, then once living beings have
. heard them and single-mindedly applied themselves to
. practice, they will be able to cut off earthly desires,
. gain the doctrines, gain various stages, and gain the ways.
.
. “Good men, this is called the sixth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the seventh inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If good men or good women, while the
. Buddha is in the world or after he has passed into
. extinction, are able to hear THIS SUTRA and rejoice and put
. faith and hope in it, greeting it as something rare; if
. they accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, explain, preach,
. and practice it as it directs, conceiving a desire for
. enlightenment, cultivating good roots, nurturing minds of
. great compassion, and desiring to save all living beings
. from their sufferings, then although they have not yet been
. able to practice the six paramitas, the six paramitas will
. of themselves appear before them. In their present bodies
. they will be able to gain the truth of birthlessness, their
. earthly desires and their sufferings of birth and death
. will in one moment be cast off and destroyed, and they will
. ascend to the seventh stage of the bodhisattva.
.
. “Suppose, for example, there is a stalwart hero who wipes
. out the king’s enemies. Once these enemies have been
. destroyed, the king rejoices greatly and takes half of his
. kingdom and presents it all to the hero as a fief. The good
. men and good women who uphold THIS SUTRA will be similar to
. this. They will be the bravest and most heroic of all
. practitioners. And though they do not seek for them, the
. six paramitas, those treasures of the Law, will come to
. them naturally. Their enemies, birth and death, will of
. themselves be scattered and destroyed, and they will be
. enlightened to the truth of birthlessness, which is like
. receiving half the buddha land in fief and its treasures as
. a gift to enjoy in tranquillity.
.
. “Good men, this is called the seventh benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the eighth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, they
. will revere and put faith in it as though they were gazing
. upon the Buddha’s body, and will not let themselves treat
. it any differently. They will love and delight in THIS
. SUTRA, accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and do obeisance
. to it, putting it into practice as the Law directs,
. strictly observing the precepts, firmly persevering,
. carrying out the paramita of almsgiving, cultivating
. profound pity and compassion, and preaching this
. unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable Meanings Sutra far
. and wide for the sake of others.
.
. “If there are persons who have never believed in the
. existence of sinfulness or blessing, then they will show
. them THIS SUTRA and, employing various kinds of expedient
. means, will convert them and prevail upon them to believe.
. Through the authority and power of the sutra, such persons
. will be able to develop minds of faith, abruptly changing
. their direction. And once having developed minds of faith,
. because they proceed with courage and diligence, they will
. be able to acquire the dignity, virtue, authority, and
. power of THIS SUTRA, to gain the ways, and to gain various
. stages.
.
. “Therefore these good men and women, because of the
. benefits they gain through being converted, will in their
. present forms as men and women be able to gain the truth of
. birthlessness, to gain the upper level, and to become
. companions of the bodhisattvas. Quickly they will be able
. to lead living beings to success, to purify the buddha
. land, and before long to gain unsurpassed enlightenment.
.
. “Good men, this is called the eighth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the ninth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, who
. leap with joy on having gained what they never had before,
. who accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and offer alms to
. it and for the sake of the multitude, observing
. distinctions, expound and preach the message of THIS SUTRA
. far and wide, then in one instant they will be able to wipe
. out the lingering guilt and heavy obstacle of their deeds
. in former existences and to attain a state of purity.
. Thereafter they will acquire great eloquence, step by step
. adorn themselves with the paramitas, acquire various
. samadhis including the shuramgama samadhi, enter the great
. gate of the dharani teachings, gain the power of diligent
. effort, and quickly attain the highest levels. They will be
. skilled at dividing their bodies and producing emanations
. of themselves, dispatching them to the lands in the ten
. directions to rescue and save all living beings in the
. twenty-five realms of existence from their dire sufferings,
. enabling them all to gain emancipation. This is because the
. sutra possesses this power.
.
. “Good men, this is called the ninth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the tenth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: Suppose there are good men or good
. women who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, and
. are filled with great joy, greeting it as something rare.
. After they themselves have accepted, upheld, read, recited,
. copied, offered alms, and put it into practice as it
. directs, they will also be able far and wide to encourage
. those in household life and those who have left such life
. to accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, offer alms, explain,
. and preach the sutra and practice it as the Law directs.
. Because they have the power to cause others to practice
. THIS SUTRA, others will gain the ways and gain various
. stages. All this will come from the fact that these good
. men and good women are moved to compassion and have the
. power to convert others diligently. As a result, these good
. men and good women in their present bodies will be able to
. gain immeasurable dharani teachings.
.
. “While they are still at the stage of ordinary persons,
. while they are just beginning, they will find themselves
. naturally capable of committing themselves to countless
. asamkhyas of broad resolutions and great vows,
. demonstrating profound determination to save all living
. beings, exercising great compassion, rescuing multitudes
. far and wide from their sufferings, gathering to themselves
. a mass of good roots, and bringing enrichment and benefit
. to all. They will expound the moisture of the Law, pouring
. it everywhere to water the dry and barren places. They will
. show themselves able to dispense the medicine of the Law to
. living beings, bringing peace and happiness to all.
. Gradually they will come forth and ascend until they reside
. at the stage of the clouds of the Law. The moisture of
. their favor will water all places; nothing will be outside
. their compassion. They will encompass all living beings who
. suffer, causing them to enter upon the buddha path. And
. because of all this, these people will before long gain
. supreme perfect enlightenment.
.
. “Good men, this is called the tenth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, this unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable
. Meanings Sutra fully possesses great and marvelous
. supernatural powers such as these. It is worthy of
. unsurpassed veneration, for it can enable ordinary persons
. all to attain the stage of sage; leaving forever the realm
. of birth and death, they will all gain freedom. Therefore
. THIS SUTRA is called Immeasurable Meanings. It can cause
. all living beings who are still at the level of ordinary
. persons to put forth immeasurable shoots that will grow
. into the way of the bodhisattva, to plant trees of benefits
. that will flourish, put out branches, and spread. Therefore
. THIS SUTRA is dubbed the possessor of inconceivable
. benefits and power.”
.
. At that time the bodhisattva mahasattva Great Adornment and
. the others of the eighty thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva,
. speaking in a single voice addressed the Buddha, saying:
. “World-Honored One, as the Buddha has preached, this
. profound, subtle, wonderful, unsurpassed great vehicle
. Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is true and correct in word and
. principle, worthy of unsurpassed veneration. It is guarded
. and protected by all the buddhas of the three existences.
. There is no devil host, no congregation of non-Buddhist
. believers who can invade it, nor can it be destroyed by any
. erroneous views or accidents of birth and death.
.
. “Thus it is that THIS SUTRA possesses ten benefits and
. inconceivable powers such as have been described. It brings
. great enrichment and benefit to all living beings
. immeasurable in number. It causes all bodhisattvas
. mahasattva each one to gain the samadhi of immeasurable
. meanings. Or perhaps they will gain hundreds and thousands
. of dharani teachings, or they will be able to gain the
. various levels and various types of cognition of the
. bodhisattva, or they will gain the four-way and four-stage
. enlightenment of the cause-awakened one and the arhat. The
. world-honored one in his compassion and mercy has been
. pleased to preach the Law for us in this way, enabling us
. to gain the great profits of the Law. This is most
. wonderful, something never known before. The compassion and
. favor of the world-honored one is indeed difficult to repay!”
.
. When they had finished speaking these words, the major
. world system quaked and trembled in six different ways.
. From the sky there rained down various kinds of heavenly
. flowers, heavenly utpala flowers, padma flowers, kumuda
. flowers, pundarika flowers. There also rained down
. countless varieties of heavenly incense, heavenly robes,
. heavenly necklaces, and priceless heavenly jewels that came
. tumbling and turning through the air and descended as
. offerings to the Buddha and the great assembly of
. bodhisattvas and voice-hearers. Heavenly vessels from
. heavenly kitchens were heaped and overflowing with a
. hundred heavenly flavors; merely observing their forms and
. smelling their aromas was enough to make one feel
. satisfied. Heavenly streamers, heavenly banners, heavenly
. canopies, and wonderful heavenly playthings were ranged
. here and there, heavenly musical instruments played, and
. songs were sung to praise the Buddha.
.
. Then in the eastern region the buddha worlds numerous as
. Ganges sands also quaked and trembled in six different
. ways, raining down heavenly flowers, heavenly incense,
. heavenly robes, heavenly necklaces, priceless heavenly
. jewels, heavenly vessels from heavenly kitchens with a
. hundred heavenly flavors, so that observing their forms and
. smelling their aromas was enough to make one feel
. satisfied. Heavenly streamers, heavenly banners, heavenly
. canopies, and wonderful heavenly playthings were ranged
. here and there, heavenly musical instruments played, and
. songs were sung in praise of the buddhas and the great
. assemblies of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers there, and the
. same occurred in the southern, western, and northern
. regions, in the four intermediate directions, and in the
. upper and lower regions.
.
. At that time the Buddha addressed the bodhisattva
. mahasattva Great Adornment and the others of the eighty
. thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva, saying: “You should
. approach THIS SUTRA with profound feelings of respect,
. practice it as the Law directs, convert all beings far and
. wide, and propagate it with a diligent mind. At all times
. be industrious in its cause, guard it day and night, and
. enable living beings, each one of them, to enjoy the
. profits of the Law. You will then in truth be showing great
. compassion and great pity. Use the transcendental power of
. your vows to guard and protect THIS SUTRA, and do not let
. it be impeded by doubt. In the time given you, you must
. without fail cause it to spread throughout Jambudvipa,
. making certain that all living beings are able to see and
. hear it, to read, recite, copy, and offer alms to it. Then
. as a result you yourselves will be able quickly to gain
. supreme perfect enlightenment.”
.
. At that time the bodhisattva mahasattva Great Adornment and
. the others of the eighty thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva
. rose from their seats and proceeded to where the Buddha
. was. They bowed their heads to the ground in obeisance
. before the Buddha’s feet and circled around him a hundred
. thousand times. Then they advanced, knelt on one knee, and
. all blending their voices in unison, spoke to the Buddha,
. saying: “World-Honored One, we have been fortunate enough
. to receive the compassion and mercy of the world-honored
. one, who for our sake has preached this profound, subtle,
. wonderful, unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable Meanings
. Sutra. Respectfully we accept the Buddha’s charge. After
. the thus come one has passed into extinction, we will
. propagate THIS SUTRA far and wide, causing all beings
. everywhere to accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and offer
. alms to it. We beg you to have no concern or fret on that
. account. We will employ the power of our vows to enable all
. living beings everywhere to see, hear, read, recite, copy,
. and offer alms to THIS SUTRA, and to gain the sutra’s
. marvelous supernatural blessings.”

In spite of the fact that I think you are wrong, I do not means this as criticism of you, Iain, remembering the immortal words of Bodhisattva Never Disparaging:

“I have profound reverence for you, I would never dare treat you with disparagement or arrogance. Why? Because you are all practicing the bodhisattva way and are certain to attain Buddhahood.”

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

OK we are going to have to agree to differ.

You wrote, after quoting from the SGI Dictionary:

"Nothing that I can see, other than from you, specifically describes the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra as a provisional teaching."

It is true that this does not state Immeasurable Meaning as a provisional teaching. However, the dictionary also states Immeasurable Meanings is a separate Sutra.

It may be a prologue but it is still provisional. And it is incorrect to state that Myoho Renge Kyo has not yet been preached. It has not been preached until it is finished. The arising and departing of the people who leave the assembly in chapter two makes this point. They too make the same mistake and so they arise and go, thinking they have already learned or understood the truth.

Being a separate entity Immeasurable Meanings is not covered by the statements that place the Lotus Sutra as the highest of all the Buddha's teachings. Nichiren does not treat it in this way either. One must understand that Immeasurable Meanings prepares the way to the revelation of the highest truth, it is not that truth. This was the original point.

Consider, if the Buddha had wanted us to understand Immeasurable Meanings as an integral part of the Highest Truth, why preach it as a separate entity and then reference it in that way? Why not simply incorporate it as the first three chapters of the Lotus Sutra itself? The change would be a simple one to make from a literary standpoint. But this isn't the case. Immeasurable Meanings is placed outside the Lotus Sutra. Chapter 1 of the Lotus Sutra, it's introduction, sets that scene. It tells you people have gathered and the Buddha preaches that Sutra, it tells you all you need to know about that Sutra and it's significance. Then the key change is where the Buddha enters Samadhi and portents begin to occur. These tell you clearly that the Great Law is about to be preached.

I recommend that you return directly to Nichiren's writings and not to any commentaries on them, to understand why Immeasurable Meanings, although a prologue to the Sutra, is nonetheless a provisional teaching. It should be as clear as day. I really cannot understand why you cannot grasp this fundamental point.

Chas, you can disparage me all you want, it won't stop you from attaining Buddhahood :)

[kelpzoidzl]

From Kanjin no Honzon Sho

"We can divide the ten volumes of the Muryogi Sutra, the Lotus Sutra, and the Fugen Sutra into two parts: Theoretical and essential.53 In the theoretical teaching, preparation indicates the Muryogi Sutra and the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra, revelation is the Hoben (second) chapter through the Ninki (ninth) chapter, and transmission includes the tenth to the fourteenth chapters. The Buddha of the theoretical teaching declared that he first attained Buddhahood in this life. He revealed the hundred worlds and the thousand factors inherent in life, though he did not go on to expound their eternal nature. Since the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra thus reveals a part of the Buddha's own enlightenment, it excels all the other sutras and is difficult to believe and difficult to understand.

Herein the first relationship between Shakyamuni Buddha and his disciples can be traced back to the time when he was the sixteenth son of Daitsu Buddha. At that time he first planted the seed of Buddhahood in their lives. In Shakyamuni's lifetime only a few of them could discover the seed when they heard the Kegon Sutra and the other teachings of the first four periods. This was not, however, the Buddha's true intention. Their discovery through these teachings was as rare as curing an illness with poison. Common mortals and the people of the two vehicles were led gradually to the Lotus Sutra through the teachings of the first four periods. They then discovered the seed of Buddhahood within themselves and were able to obtain the fruit of enlightenment.

There were people of Humanity and Heaven who took faith in the eight chapters for the first time in Shakyamuni's days. Some took the seed into their lives by listening to a single phrase or verse from among the eight chapters. Others nurtured and harvested the seed they received, and still others obtained the fruit of enlightenment when they came to the Fugen and Nirvana sutras. There were also some who obtained the same fruit through Hinayana and provisional Mahayana teachings when they appeared later in the Former, Middle and Latter Days of the Law. These last are like the disciples in Shakyamuni's lifetime who discovered the seed of Buddhahood through the teachings of the first four periods.

Preparation, revelation and transmission are also represented in the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra, especially in the latter fourteen chapters. Preparation is the first half of the Yujutsu (fifteenth) chapter. Revelation includes the latter half of this chapter, the Juryo chapter, and the first half of the Funbetsu Kudoku (seventeenth) chapter -- one chapter and two halves. Transmission includes the rest. The Buddha of the essential teaching denied that he first attained Buddhahood in this life. The difference between the theoretical and essential teachings is as great as that between heaven and earth.

The latter revealed the eternity of the Ten Worlds and, further, the True Land. The theoretical teaching, the teachings of the first four periods, the Muryogi Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra were all preached according to the capacities of the people. They are, therefore, easy to believe and easy to understand. In contrast, the essential teaching reveals the Buddha's own enlightenment, and therefore, is difficult to believe and difficult to understand. However, even the difference between ichinen sanzen of the theoretical and of the essential teachings pales into insignificance before the ultimate principle hidden within the Lotus Sutra.

True Buddhism also has its preparation, revelation, and transmission. Shakyamuni Buddha preached the Lotus Sutra in his life as the sixteenth son of Daitsu Buddha. When he appeared as Shakyamuni he also expounded teachings for fifty years, including the Kegon Sutra, the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra. All these sutras as well as the innumerable teachings of all the other Buddhas in the universe are preparation for revealing the heart of the Juryo chapter.

All the teachings other than "one chapter and two halves" Of true Buddhism are Hinayana in nature and heretical. Not only do they fail to lead to enlightenment, but they also lack the truth. Those who believe in them are of slight virtue, bound by illusion, ignorant, unfortunate, solitary and like birds and beasts which do not appreciate their parents' love.

The first half of the Lotus Sutra and the sutras preceding it teach that one can attain Buddhahood, but even they are not the true cause for Buddhahood. Much less so are teachings of a Hinayana nature such as the Dainichi Sutra. It is out of the question to think that the scholars and priests of the seven sects, including Kegon and Shingon, preach the true cause for attaining Buddhahood.

These inferior sutras seem to fall within the zokyo, tsugyo, and bekkyo teachings, but actually they are no better than the lowest two. They maintain that their doctrines are incomparably profound, although nowhere do they clarify when the Buddha planted the seed of Buddhahood, or when he nurtured and reaped it. These doctrines are no different from Hinayana which demands that one reduce his body to ashes and annihilate his consciousness, for they do not reveal when the Buddha started teaching and when he finished. If a queen should conceive by a slave, her baby would be nothing but an outcast.

The second through the ninth chapters of the theoretical teaching seem to have been expounded for the sake of the people of the two vehicles rather than for the common people and bodhisattvas in Shakyamuni's lifetime. From a more profound viewpoint, they are intended for the common people after the Buddha's passing -- in the Former, Middle and Latter Days of the Law -- and in particular, for the common people in the beginning of the Latter Day."



Clearly, for the Daishonin, the real meaning of the core of the Lotus Sutra, is far greater than even actual Ichinen Sanzen, much less the opening and closing sutras or other chapters.

All the other sutras and even the Lotus Sutra, before and after the transmission to Jogyo are provisional. This is entirely based in the Daishonin's own personal awakening and experience. It does not come from reading and thinking about it. It only comes from personal practice and awakening, based in complete immersion.

The same is true with the authors of the Lotus Sutra itself. It came out of total immersion in actual experience of witnessing a very profound inner experience. In the process, they correct mistaken hinayanic ideas and more recent attitudes that had arisen from shallow intellectualizing the pranjaparamita period. They also wished to reassert Buddhism as being greater then the new middle period Upanishads, which had essentially caused the people at large to discard nihilistic buddhism, in favor of the eternal benefits found in the more popular Upanishads.

Mahayana emerged more in competition with the Upanishads, then hinayana which had already waned in popularity among the masses of people. The character of the Lotus Sutra is very different from previous Buddhism and also very different from other so called "Mahayana" sutras, many of which distort Buddhism when compared to the awakenings of the authors of the Lotus Sutra.

In Tientai and Nichiren's times, there was little historical info available on early Mahayana. The confusion and sectarianism between the Middle Way and Yogacara, obfuscated the history, and created false distinctions between them.

[kelpzoidzl]

The details of Mahayana history is obscured from the standpoint of documentation and the effect of sectarianism. There are things that can only be reconstructed by "reading" it in the Akasa/Alaya consciousness, (akashic records), so doing so is rare and easily obfuscated by the passing of time and incessant disbelief of others.

Even those who have glimpsed the true history do not have superhuman power to assimilate what they saw and still have to fill in the historical blanks, such as how Tientai, Dengyo and Nichiren constructed documentary history. The best they could do was to intuit, based in deep, experiential evidence.

Those hearing the first historical preachings of the Lotus Sutra in the 1st and 2nd century and the actual authors of the Lotus Sutra, the Opening and Closing Sutras, the Shuramgama Sutra, the Pranjaparamita and the later Ahisamayalakara (which was never translated in Chinese, till 1930.) the history of the Avatamsaka and Greater Nirvana Sutra were also obscured and guesswork was applied.

Maitreya channeled 5 teachings to Asanga which mentions the Saddharma Pundarika as the highest Sutra and the identity of Sthiramati was also obscured during the Yogacara period.

Of course the confusion over Maitreya as the next "future Buddha" mostly adopted by Tibetan teachers, has been badly garbled. The adoption of tantric sutras and "other power" sutras were in direct contradiction to the Lotus Sutra Buddhism.

[Chas.]

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-8, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> OK we are going to have to agree to differ.
>
> You wrote, after quoting from the SGI Dictionary:
>
> "Nothing that I can see, other than from you, specifically describes the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra as a provisional teaching."
>
> It is true that this does not state Immeasurable Meaning as a provisional teaching. However, the dictionary also states Immeasurable Meanings is a separate Sutra.
>
> It may be a prologue but it is still provisional. And it is incorrect to state that Myoho Renge Kyo has not yet been preached. It has not been preached until it is finished. The arising and departing of the people who leave the assembly in chapter two makes this point. They too make the same mistake and so they arise and go, thinking they have already learned or understood the truth.
>
> Being a separate entity Immeasurable Meanings is not covered by the statements that place the Lotus Sutra as the highest of all the Buddha's teachings. Nichiren does not treat it in this way either. One must understand that Immeasurable Meanings prepares the way to the revelation of the highest truth, it is not that truth. This was the original point.
>
> Consider, if the Buddha had wanted us to understand Immeasurable Meanings as an integral part of the Highest Truth, why preach it as a separate entity and then reference it in that way? Why not simply incorporate it as the first three chapters of the Lotus Sutra itself? The change would be a simple one to make from a literary standpoint. But this isn't the case. Immeasurable Meanings is placed outside the Lotus Sutra. Chapter 1 of the Lotus Sutra, it's introduction, sets that scene. It tells you people have gathered and the Buddha preaches that Sutra, it tells you all you need to know about that Sutra and it's significance. Then the key change is where the Buddha enters Samadhi and portents begin to occur. These tell you clearly that the Great Law is about to be preached.
>

You are completely incorrect. Neither of the two accompanying and separate sutras in the book of the Lotus Sutra are provisional (Immeasurable Meanings, and Universal Worthy), they are connected to the Lotus Sutra. Also, the Nirvana Sutra is separate and not provisional. Provisional means preached BEFORE the Lotus Sutra was preached and that means before the first character Myo was preached, not before the last character (number 69,384) was preached.

Your idea of the word "before" is completely wrong. "Before" implies preceding the beginning, and not preceding the finale: that means "concurrent", not "before". "Concurrent" is a fuzzy temporal predicate, "before" is an absolute temporal predicate.

This is why the single character myo is so significant. It is because of the single character myo that every character of the Lotus Sutra contains all of the Lotus Sutra. I have capitalized the appropriate words to help you focus.

From the "The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra", pp. 145-146:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/14#para-31

. Among the bodhisattvas with their two good eyes, the
. cross-eyed people of the two vehicles, ordinary people
. with their blind eyes, or icchantikas who have been blind
. since birth, there were none who could make out the true
. color or shape of things by means of the earlier sutras.
. But when the Lotus Sutra was preached and the moon of the
. theoretical teaching came forth, first the bodhisattvas
. with their two good eyes gained enlightenment, and then
. the cross-eyed people of the two vehicles. Next the blind
. eyes of ordinary people were opened, and then even
. icchantikas, who had been blind from birth, were able to
. establish a relationship with the Lotus Sutra that
. assured them that their eyes would one day open. ALL THIS
. WAS DUE ENTIRELY TO THE VIRTUE OF THE SINGLE CHARACTER MYŌ.
.
. There are two myō, or mystic, principles expounded in the
. Lotus Sutra, one in the first fourteen chapters, which
. constitute the theoretical teaching, and one in the
. latter fourteen chapters, which constitute the essential
. teaching. From another point of view, there are twenty
. mystic principles, ten in the theoretical teaching and
. ten in the essential teaching; or there are sixty mystic
. principles, thirty in the theoretical teaching and thirty
. in the essential teaching. From yet other points of view,
. forty mystic principles may be discerned in each half of
. the Lotus Sutra. By adding these to the forty mystic
. principles concerning the observation of the mind, THE
. SINGLE CHARACTER MYŌ WILL BE FOUND TO CONTAIN FULLY ONE
. HUNDRED AND TWENTY MYŌ, OR MYSTIC, PRINCIPLES.
.
. ONE FUNDAMENTAL MYŌ, OR MYSTIC, PRINCIPLE UNDERLIES EVERY
. ONE OF THE 69,384 CHARACTERS THAT MAKE UP THE LOTUS
. SUTRA. Hence the Lotus Sutra comprises a total of 69,384
. mystic principles.
.
. Myō in India is rendered as sad, and in China, as miao.
. MYŌ MEANS TO BE FULLY ENDOWED, WHICH IN TURN HAS THE
. MEANING OF “PERFECT AND FULL.” EACH WORD AND EACH
. CHARACTER OF THE LOTUS SUTRA CONTAINS WITHIN IT ALL THE
. 69,384 CHARACTERS THAT COMPOSE THE SUTRA. To illustrate,
. one drop of the great ocean contains within it the waters
. of all the various rivers that flow into the ocean, and a
. single wish-granting jewel, though no bigger than a
. mustard seed, is capable of showering down the treasures
. that one could wish for with all the wish-granting jewels.
.
. To give another analogy, plants and trees are withered
. and bare in autumn and winter, but when the sun of spring
. and summer shines on them, they put forth branches and
. leaves, and then flowers and fruit. BEFORE THE PREACHING
. OF THE LOTUS SUTRA, THE PEOPLE IN THE NINE WORLDS WERE
. LIKE PLANTS AND TREES IN AUTUMN AND WINTER. BUT WHEN THE
. SINGLE CHARACTER MYŌ OF THE LOTUS SUTRA SHONE ON THEM
. LIKE THE SPRING AND SUMMER SUN, THEN THE FLOWER OF THE
. ASPIRATION FOR ENLIGHTENMENT BLOSSOMED, AND THE FRUIT OF
. BUDDHAHOOD OR REBIRTH IN THE PURE LAND EMERGED.
.
. Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna in his Treatise on the Great
. Perfection of Wisdom says, “[The Lotus Sutra is] like a
. great physician who can change poison into medicine.”
. This quotation occurs in a passage in Great Perfection of
. Wisdom that explains the virtues inherent in the
. character myō of the Lotus Sutra. The Great Teacher
. Miao-lo remarks, “Because it can cure what is thought to
. be incurable, it is called myō, or wonderful.”

You can see how by inspection that your logic is irredeemably flawed. Agreeing to disagree is not sufficient to repair the breech.

[Chas.]

This is the same mixture of truth and falsehood that constitutes most of your thinking on Buddhism and it is quite different from what Nichiren Daishonin thinks.

First off, your quote is an incorrect translation with phrases like "True Buddhism" inserted, here is the correct and complete text:

From "The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind Established in the Fifth Five-Hundred-Year Period after the Thus Come One ’s Passing", WND I, pp. 367-370:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/39#para-79

. The ten volumes of the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, the
. Lotus Sutra, and the Universal Worthy Sutra can also be
. divided into two parts: theoretical and essential. Each
. part has the three divisions. In the theoretical teaching,
. preparation comprises the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra and
. the “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra, revelation
. comprises eight chapters, from the “Expedient Means”
. through the “Prophecies” chapters, and transmission
. comprises five chapters, from the “Teacher of the Law” to
. the “Peaceful Practices.” The Buddha of the theoretical
. teaching declared that he first attained Buddhahood in this
. life. He revealed the hundred worlds and thousand factors
. inherent in life, but he did not expound their eternal
. nature. Since the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra
. thus directly reveals a part of the Buddha’s own
. enlightenment, it excels all the other sutras that the
. Buddha had preached, now preached, or would preach, and is
. the correct teaching that is difficult to believe and
. difficult to understand.
.
. The relationship between Shakyamuni Buddha and his
. disciples can be traced back to the time when, as the
. sixteenth son of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom
. Excellence, he planted the seeds of Buddhahood in their
. lives. In Shakyamuni’s present lifetime a few of these
. disciples discovered the seeds when they heard the Flower
. Garland Sutra and the other teachings of the first four
. flavors. This was not, however, the Buddha’s true
. intention. Their discovery through these teachings was like
. poison having a positive effect. Ordinary people and the
. persons of the two vehicles came to the Lotus Sutra
. gradually through the first four flavors of teachings. They
. then revealed the seeds of Buddhahood from within
. themselves and were able to obtain the fruit of
. enlightenment.
.
. Among the human and heavenly beings who listened to the
. eight chapters for the first time in Shakyamuni’s days,
. some took the seeds into their lives by hearing just a
. single phrase or verse. Some nurtured and harvested the
. seeds they had received. Others brought their seeds to
. fruition when they came to the Universal Worthy and Nirvana
. sutras. Still others appeared in the Former, Middle, or
. Latter Day of the Law and, through the Hinayana and
. provisional Mahayana teachings, obtained the fruit of
. enlightenment of the Lotus Sutra. These last are like the
. disciples in Shakyamuni’s lifetime who discovered their
. seeds of Buddhahood through the first four flavors of
. teachings.
.
. Preparation, revelation, and transmission also exist in the
. fourteen chapters of the essential teaching of the Lotus
. Sutra. The first half of the “Emerging from the Earth”
. chapter is preparation. The latter half of this chapter,
. the “Life Span” chapter, and the first half of the
. following “Distinctions in Benefits” chapter—one chapter
. and two halves—are revelation. The remainder is transmission.
.
. The Buddha of the essential teaching denies that he first
. attained Buddhahood in this life. The difference between
. the theoretical and the essential teachings is as great as
. that between heaven and earth. The latter reveals the
. eternity of the Ten Worlds and, further, the realm of the
. environment. The theoretical teaching, the first four
. flavors of teachings, the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, and
. the Nirvana Sutra were all preached according to the
. capacities of the people. All these teachings that fall
. into the three categories of preaching are therefore easy
. to believe and easy to understand. In contrast, the
. essential teaching, which transcends the three categories,
. is difficult to believe and difficult to understand, for it
. directly reveals the Buddha’s own enlightenment.
. Nevertheless, even the difference between the doctrine of
. three thousand realms in a single moment of life of the
. theoretical teaching and that of the essential teaching
. pales into insignificance [before the ultimate teaching
. contained in the depths of the “Life Span” chapter].
.
. The essential teaching [contained in the depths of the
. “Life Span” chapter] also has its preparation, revelation,
. and transmission. Shakyamuni Buddha preached the Lotus
. Sutra in the past as the sixteenth son of the Buddha Great
. Universal Wisdom Excellence. When he appeared in his
. present life [in India], he also preached teachings for
. some fifty years, from the Flower Garland Sutra to the
. fourteen chapters of the theoretical teaching [of the Lotus
. Sutra] and the Nirvana Sutra. All these sutras as well as
. the countless sutras of the Buddhas of the ten directions
. and the three existences are preparation for revealing [the
. heart of] the “Life Span” chapter.
.
. All the teachings other than the “one chapter and two
. halves” are Hinayana in nature and erroneous. Not only do
. they fail to lead to enlightenment, but also they lack the
. truth. Those who believe in them are meager in virtue,
. heavy with defilement, ignorant, poor, solitary, and like
. birds and beasts [that do not know their own parents].
.

. The first half of the Lotus Sutra and the sutras preceding

. it contain the perfect teaching, but even this is not the
. cause for Buddhahood. Much less so are teachings of a
. Hinayana nature, such as the Mahāvairochana Sutra. It is
. out of the question to think that the scholars and teachers
. of the seven schools, including the Flower Garland and the
. True Word, preach the cause for attaining Buddhahood.
.
. These inferior sutras seem to fall within the Tripitaka,
. connecting, and specific teachings, but actually they are
. no better than the lowest two. They may maintain that their
. doctrines are incomparably profound, but nowhere do they
. clarify when the Buddha planted the seeds of Buddhahood, or
. when he nurtured and reaped them. These doctrines are no
. different from Hinayana, which demands that one reduce
. one’s body to ashes and annihilate one’s consciousness, for
. they do not reveal when the Buddha started teaching and
. when he finished. If a consort of a king were to conceive
. by a beast, her baby would be inferior to a chandāla.
.
. Setting aside these lesser teachings, the eight chapters of
. the revelation section [the second through the ninth
. chapters] of the theoretical teaching seem to have been
. expounded for the sake of the persons of the two vehicles
. rather than for the ordinary people and bodhisattvas in
. Shakyamuni’s lifetime. From a more profound viewpoint, they
. are intended for the ordinary people after the Buddha’s
. passing—in the Former, Middle, and Latter Days of the
. Law—and, in particular, for the ordinary people in the
. beginning of the Latter Day.
.
. Question: On what authority do you say so?
.
. Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter of the Lotus Sutra
. states, “Since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound
. even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more
. will this be so after his passing?” The “Treasure Tower”
. chapter states, “They [the Buddhas] make certain that the
. Law will long endure. . . . [The Thus Come One Many
. Treasures, I myself], and these emanation Buddhas who have
. gathered here, surely know this is our aim.” Look at what
. the “Encouraging Devotion” and “Peaceful Practices”
. chapters state about the future. The theoretical teaching
. was preached for the people after Shakyamuni Buddha’s
. passing.
.
. As regards the essential teaching, it was addressed
. exclusively to the people early in the Latter Day of the
. Law. On the surface, the Buddha seems to have preached this
. teaching for the enlightenment of the people of his day; he
. planted the seeds of Buddhahood in their lives in the
. remote past [numberless major world system dust particle
. kalpas ago] and nurtured the seeds through his preaching as
. the sixteenth son of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom
. Excellence [major world system dust particle kalpas ago]
. and through the first four flavors of teachings and the
. theoretical teaching in this life. Then with the essential
. teaching he brought his followers to the stage of
. near-perfect enlightenment and finally to that of perfect
. enlightenment.
.
. IN ACTUALITY, HOWEVER, THE ESSENTIAL TEACHING BEARS NO
. RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER TO THE THEORETICAL TEACHING. THE
. PREPARATION, REVELATION, AND TRANSMISSION OF THE ESSENTIAL
. TEACHING ARE INTENDED ENTIRELY FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE
. LATTER DAY OF THE LAW. THE ESSENTIAL TEACHING OF
. SHAKYAMUNI’S LIFETIME AND THAT REVEALED AT THE BEGINNING OF
. THE LATTER DAY ARE BOTH PURE AND PERFECT [IN THAT BOTH LEAD
. DIRECTLY TO BUDDHAHOOD]. SHAKYAMUNI’S, HOWEVER, IS THE
. BUDDHISM OF THE HARVEST, AND THIS IS THE BUDDHISM OF
. SOWING. THE CORE OF HIS TEACHING IS ONE CHAPTER AND TWO
. HALVES, AND THE CORE OF MINE IS THE FIVE CHARACTERS OF THE
. DAIMOKU ALONE.

I capitalized the summary point you dropped in the last paragraph. You have overstepped what Nichiren Daishonin intended, however, when you incorrectly state "All the other sutras and even the Lotus Sutra, before and after the transmission to Jogyo are provisional."

Two quotes from the Gosho point out that difference. I have capitalized the appropriate sections to focus your attention.

1. From "On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion", WND I, p. 978:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/134#para-10

. You also MENTIONED IN YOUR LETTER THAT THE PEOPLE CONNECTED
. WITH ŌTA JŌMYŌ ARE APPARENTLY SAYING THAT THE THEORETICAL
. TEACHING OF THE LOTUS SUTRA CAN IN NO WAY LEAD TO
. ENLIGHTENMENT. THEY ARE MAKING A SERIOUS MISTAKE. Remember
. this about the theoretical and essential teachings of the
. Lotus Sutra: Which is shallow and which profound, which
. superior and which inferior, which lenient and which
. severe, and which subordinate and which primary must be
. judged in accordance with the time and the people’s
. capacity. There are three periods7 in which the sacred
. teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime should be propagated;
. the people’s capacity should be thought of in the same way.
.
. In the first five hundred years of the Former Day of the
. Law following the Buddha’s passing, only Hinayana teachings
. spread, while in the next five hundred years, provisional
. Mahayana teachings spread. The thousand years of the Middle
. Day of the Law saw the rise of the theoretical teaching. In
. the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law, only the
. essential teaching spreads, but even so, the theoretical
. teaching should not be discarded. Nowhere in the entire
. Lotus Sutra do we find a passage suggesting that we should
. discard the first fourteen chapters, which comprise the
. theoretical teaching. When we distinguish between the
. theoretical and the essential teachings on the basis of the
. threefold classification of the entire body of the Buddha’s
. teachings, the pre-Lotus Sutra teachings were to be spread
. in the Former Day, and the theoretical teaching, in the
. Middle Day, but the Latter Day is the time to propagate the
. essential teaching. In the present period the essential
. teaching is primary, while the theoretical teaching is
. subordinate. BUT THOSE WHO THEREFORE DISCARD THE LATTER,
. SAYING IT IS NOT THE WAY TO ENLIGHTENMENT, AND BELIEVE ONLY
. IN THE FORMER, HAVE NOT YET UNDERSTOOD THE DOCTRINE OF
. NICHIREN’S TRUE INTENTION. THEIRS IS A COMPLETELY DISTORTED
. VIEW.
.
. This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential
. teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha].
. THOSE WHO WOULD DISTORT IT CAN ONLY BE POSSESSED BY THE
. HEAVENLY DEVIL, OR PĀPĪYAS, AND WILL TOPPLE OTHERS ALONG
. WITH THEMSELVES INTO THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF
. INCESSANT SUFFERING. HOW FOOLISH THEY ARE! Teach this
. doctrine to others clearly as I have taught you these many
. years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice
. the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do. If they do,
. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, Shakyamuni’s emanations
. throughout the ten directions, and the ten demon daughters
. will protect them. YET, FOR ALL THAT, [SOME PEOPLE
. ASSOCIATED WITH ŌTA JŌMYŌ DISTORT THE TEACHING]. I CANNOT
. FATHOM WHAT COULD BE IN THEIR MINDS.

2. From "The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings - Chapter Three: Simile and Parable", p. 52.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/3#para-48

. Point Eight, on the words “only one gate” in the passage
. “Shāriputra, suppose that in a certain town in a certain
. country there was a very rich man. . . . His own house was
. big and rambling, but it had only one gate.”
.
.
. Words and Phrases, volume five, says, “The words ‘had only
. one gate’ are a simile that derives from the earlier
. passage ‘I employ various different doctrines [literally,
. doctrine gates] / to disseminate the Buddha way.’ . . .
.
. “There are two kinds of gates, the gate to a house and the
. gate to a vehicle. The house is the realm of birth and
. death, and the gate is the all-important path by which one
. gains egress from the house. Here it represents the
. ultimate doctrine of the expedient teachings. The vehicle
. is the doctrine of the Great Vehicle, and the gate to it is
. the ultimate expression of the perfect teaching.”
.
.
. THE RECORD OF THE ORALLY TRANSMITTED TEACHINGS SAYS: THE
. ONE GATE IS THE MIND THAT HAS FAITH IN THE LOTUS SUTRA. THE
. VEHICLE IS THE LOTUS SUTRA, AND THE OX THAT DRAWS THE
. VEHICLE IS NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO.
.
. The house is the realm of earthly desires. Passing through
. the round of births and deaths, one makes one’s way on the
. land of the Dharma nature, or enlightenment, that is
. inherent within oneself.

The Lotus Sutra is your life in its entirety. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo moves your life to a wonderful place. Intentionally discarding your life is a waste. You need all those things, wife, dog, house ...

Otherwise you are just some kind of a forest-dwelling monk.

-Chas.

[kelpzoidzl]

Chas you are locked in a timewarp. Nichiren is very clear. It doesn't mattter what translation of Kanjin no Honzon Sho, it says exacting the same thing. Nichiren viesed everything except the core of the Juryo Chapter and Transmission to Jogyo, as provisional and not the whole truth.

You are not capable of talking congruently without massive cut and pastes as if putting out spam space filler will block the actual awareness of the Daishonin's words.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks David, I agree completely. Nichiren was very clear about how Sutras should be ranked against the Lotus Sutra as an entire entity (relative ranking) and how different parts of the Sutra relate to each other (superior/inferior, provisional/true). He even deals specifically with the Nirvana Sutra, which was as you know preached after the Lotus Sutra, specifically to address this point. In terms of the Lotus Sutra all other sutras are inferior/provisional.

Chas, the key words you seem not to be seeing and understanding are 'in terms of...', 'compared with...', 'relative to...'. This is why I have been recommending that you go back to Nichiren's writing and read them directly. If I am wrong about this Chas, then you are effectively saying that so is Nichiren, it is his teaching, his guidance and his framework I am following when I state that Immeasurable Meanings is a provisional Sutra relative to the Lotus Sutra. I am very confident that I am correct on this point.

What surprises me is that a long practicing member of the SGI, who claims to follow 'Sensei' and who extensively tries to make arguments by quoting Nichiren's Writings is arguing this point. Nichiren is very clear, to rank other Sutras on a par with the Lotus Sutra is to slander it.

What is slander of the Sutra and why does it lead to suffering? It's simple, the Lotus Sutra conveys a truth about life, reality and oneself. Grasping that truth, being enlightened to it is the purpose of the Sutra. This is the great Law. However, grasping this truth is difficult and tricky, so one has to be very clear and very careful to be able to find it, unlock it and gain access. This is what Nichiren's teaching provides, that's why it's worth paying attention to and following. If one regards other sutras as true, then one goes looking for the great Law there, where it is not. One may find something that seems to be the great Law and think one has attained something that one has not attained.

This in itself is suffering but in such a situation the high of thinking one has got it clouds the view of the suffering one has entered into. By then, one has followed a trail that leads away form the great Law. It is the one eyed turtle failing to navigate to the Sandalwood log then plunging back into the depths for another millennium.

Chas, if ever there was a time to 'bend and break' attachments now is it. Please go back to Nichiren's writings, study them carefully then bend and break your attachment to your need to consider and other sutra as equal to the Lotus Sutra. Grasp that truth, that jewel in the robe! Remember, this Law can only be understood between Buddhas, therefore you will need to chant sincerely to understand it. I am confident that if you decide to study and practice in this way you will gain access. And I wish you well in doing so. :D

David & Chas, Good wishes to you both. :)

[Chas.]

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:03:23 AM UTC-8, kelpzoidzl wrote:
> Chas you are locked in a timewarp. Nichiren is very clear. It doesn't mattter what translation of Kanjin no Honzon Sho, it says exacting the same thing. Nichiren viesed everything except the core of the Juryo Chapter and Transmission to Jogyo, as provisional and not the whole truth.
>
> You are not capable of talking congruently without massive cut and pastes as if putting out spam space filler will block the actual awareness of the Daishonin's words.

Baloney, what Nichiren says about not treating the 69,384 character Lotus Sutra as a provisional teaching and discarding it along with the other provisional teachings is clear. You simply are repeating Ota Jomyo's error. What Nichiren Daishonin says about the truth does not make the Lotus Sutra "provisional". He never, ever says that anywhere, those are your words alone and you own distortion. Parts "theoretical" and "essential" does not equal wholly "provisional" and necessary to be discarded.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

And "On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion" was written in 1279. There is no time warp involved, it was one of his later writings.

Read the passage again, closely, and take it to heart.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

Restating what I said incorrectly is, once again, a sign of a weak argument.

I was perfectly clear that the Sutra of Immeasurable meanings accompanies the Lotus Sutra and is concurrent with it, in that it is preached during the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra.

1. Therefore it is not "provisional", or preached before the Lotus Sutra, and a candidate for discarding.

2. The Lotus Sutra is the highest teaching, both complete and final.

3. Accompanying sutras and the Nirvana Sutras are, however, not provisional and candidates for discarding. That is not logical.

Agreeing with David Cole means agreeing that the Lotus Sutra is provisional and therefore a candidate for discarding as well.

From "The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings - Chapter Three: Simile and Parable", p. 52.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/3#para-48

. This doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential
. teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha].
. THOSE WHO WOULD DISTORT IT CAN ONLY BE POSSESSED BY THE
. HEAVENLY DEVIL, OR PĀPĪYAS, AND WILL TOPPLE OTHERS ALONG
. WITH THEMSELVES INTO THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF
. INCESSANT SUFFERING. HOW FOOLISH THEY ARE!

I urge you not to join David Cole's bandwagon to hell.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Chas, I'm not going to restate again the reasons I've already given. If you don't want to go to the Gosho and engage in proper study of the matter that is your affair.

You mistake me Chas, hell has no fear for me, I range freely, without limitation or hindrance. I don't join bandwagons either but your response is telling.

In the game of organisations, the biggest fear is that a credible, critical mass will develop outside the organisation one is in and rooting for and suck adherents away to that new centre, leaving one's own organisation, increasingly crippled and then defunct. For those who have identified themselves and their well being with an organisation, that's a mortal blow, hence the hysterical and desperate reaction. You've little to fear from the likes of me and David that the SGI is not already doing more effectively to itself. I have understood it won't stop either. It's purpose has been achieved, the fruit has fallen, the husk has broken open and now the seeds scatter widely as they must.

The SGI's day is done, what is left is it's natural decomposition and the immense forces that are at work now within the organisation are achieving that purpose, they are the agents of change that are compelled to decompose the remnants. I used to think they were wrong, now I see they are completely and utterly right. :)

[kelpzoidzl]

Chas, you are not understanding. Nichiren wrote goshos to different people according to their particular tendancies.

Ultimately the arguments comparing what he says in Kanjin no Honzon Sho versus, what he is saying in the 4 Bodhisattva gosho, was argued over by sectarian gang turf people for a long time. Thus the time warp. To understand, one has to find the Middle Way to begin with.

Nichiren is not reversing himself about the relative importance of the various chapters and how the core "hidden in the depths of the Juryo chapter," being most important is most specific.

This is only a sectarian distinction to those who have no clue. Usually it's been the gakkai or Nichiren Shoshu receiving the criticism saying, "THEY are discarding the Lotus Sutra as expedient!"

There are extreme views. The middle way is fundamental. Another fanatic literalist in this thread has made the same argument, against the gakkai, for the famous Toda quotes about it.

Is every character of the Sutra a Buddha? Yes. Is the core of the Juryo and transmission to Jogyo, the most essential and the rest provisional? Yes. There is no contradiction, except in the mind of pinheaded poindexters with gang turf, flip flop idiocy.

Face the reality, Nichiren's teachings is the Three Great Secret Laws, not the 69,000+ innumerable laws. I am not saying this in any sectarian, anti-gakkai, anti-NShoshu way. In fact it has been N Shoshu and the Gakkai that has stressed Nichiren's "Lotus Sutra," (Gohonzon) as ultimately primary.

You seem to be taking the same position as the anti-Nikko sects and are confused.

As usual you are being a foe based, reactionary getting signals crossed.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

To respond to your claims that I am dodging the issue regarding Immeasurable Meanings sutra. I repost this from th Jofukyo tread, where the issue is also being discussed, with you no less, a fact you must be well aware of, since you've been posting there too.

In that thread, since you seem incapable of locating any Gosho that would clear up your confusion on this issue for yourself, I wrote:

"Against my better judgment, I'll throw you a bone Chas, this is probably a good place to start in the Gosho to understand the relative merits of each Sutra and the collection of Immeasurable Meanings, Lotus & Nirvana sutras.

In the first paragraph of the quote below, Nichiren makes the distinction between the three Sutras mentioned above and all other sutras.

In the second paragraph, he makes distinctions between these three sutras. Note that Nichiren is treating each sutra as a distinct entity. Note also that he reserves the highest place for the Lotus Sutra and note his reasons for doing so. So yes, Immeasurable Meanings is Ghee but no, it is not the Lotus Sutra, it is inferior to the latter and so provisional in terms of the latter. Should it be discarded? No but then again it is not necessary for the aims of the Lotus Sutra to be achieved. The Gosho quote below should also help you understand this point.

Put another way, if you were escaping a burning building and you could take one of these three Sutras with you but only one because you could not carry more than one, which would you take with you? There is only one right answer in terms of Nichiren's teachings. More importantly, why would you make that choice, because Nichiren told you too? Or because of the reason Miao-Lo gives below?


King Rinda

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/136#para-4


"[Among all the Buddhist teachings] the Āgama sutras may be compared to the flavor of milk; the Meditation and the other sutras of the Correct and Equal period may be compared to the flavor of cream; the Wisdom sutras may be compared to the flavor of curdled milk; the Flower Garland Sutra may be compared to the flavor of butter; and the Immeasurable Meanings, Lotus, and Nirvana sutras may be compared to the flavor of ghee.

Again, if the Nirvana Sutra is compared to the flavor of ghee, then the Lotus Sutra may be compared to a lord who rules over the five flavors. Thus the Great Teacher Miao-lo stated: “If we discuss the matter from the point of view of the doctrines taught, then the Lotus Sutra stands as the true lord of all the teachings, since it alone preaches ‘opening the provisional and revealing the distant.’ This is the reason that it alone is permitted the word myō, or ‘wonderful’ [in its title].”1 He also said, “Therefore, we understand that the Lotus Sutra is the true lord of the ghee.”

Chas, this is basic stuff, very basic. Correct categorisation of the sutras, their relative merits and the reasons why they are categorized so are the basis of Nichiren's explanation of his teaching. Of course you aren't precluded enlightenment if you cannot get into this stuff, so long as you have correct faith but if you are going to get into it, you need to get it right. People of Learning and Realisation have the biggest barriers to attaining enlightenment because of their arrogance and because their prior learning or what they think they know and do not think to question, gets in their way. Their minds master them and lead them astray.

[kelpzoidzl]

A last point here: The recipient of the 1279 4 Bodhisattvas gosho was Toki Jonin. There was a reason Nichiren is stressing what he said, to Toki.

Toki was to betray Nikko and Nichiren. Are you aware when Toki made himself a lay priest of his own sect, he SIGNED his OWN name on his Gohonzons in place of Nichiren, beneath the Daimoku! His ideation was different from Nichiren and Nikko.

Are you aware of this? Toki was considered to have gone Taitan later, by both the Gakkai and N Shoshu. If you can't find an example of a Toki Jonin Gohonzon with Toki's name in the large signature in place of Nichiren, let me know I will send it to you.

[kelpzoidzl]

Buddhism avoids the "either-or" kind of thinking that permeates sectarian bickering. That is a given. When Nichiren is demonstrative, on a certain point, it is not contradicting another point he made in another letter/essay.

The Lotus Sutra utterly contradicts the earlier sutras. Later Mahayana sutra authors, utterly contradict the Lotus Sutra. Explaining this is not asserting an "either-or" view. These kind of things create dicotomies when not grasped from a deeper understanding, based in actual, experiential awakening. That is the difference.

All the dogma and documentation means nothing, compared to the actual, experience of the awakening to what the "core" of the juryo chapter really means. Head tripping in words, will always cause flip flopping confusion. That is the nature of falling off the Middle Path.

It was impossible for Gautama or Nichiren to impart his experience in words that couldn't be picked apart or misunderstood. Words can always be misunderstood, even those of a Buddha. It us not the fault of Gautama or Nichiren, nor Jesus, nor Nagarjuna, Asanga, Vasubandhu, Tientai, Dengyo, Toda or others who witness it for themselves.

Words NEVER can tell it perfectly unless it's Yui Butsu, Yo Butsu.

[Chas.]

Putting a smiley on that blanket statement "The SGI's day is done" does not mitigate the cause of making it. I encourage you to avoid such calumny. Even David Cole does not make such blanket statements, which are fortune-telling and hence, unsupportable.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:50:04 AM UTC-8, kelpzoidzl wrote:
> Chas, you are not understanding. Nichiren wrote goshos to different people according to their particular tendancies.
>

This is insupportable by any evidence.

1. You cannot read Nichiren Daishonin's mind or grasp his intent. Such powers are limited in anyone.

2. Since he had all of his letters copied before sending them and retained, one might assume that he was writing not just for the intended recipient, but for us, as well.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

Swimming up from under the mire of ad hominem characterization heaped upon me, this all started when I was pointing out that chanting to statues violates the True Aspect that should be a part of any object of worship: an object of worship should be devoid of the aspect of any person such as Shakyamuni, or any other living being, to avoid making them into a Hindu god (which is what Buku Mark Rogow and Kempon Hokke effectively worship.)

In doing so I quoted from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra about the True Aspect, which you said was provisional and should not be quoted (in effect discarding it.)

BTW, quoting the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra in total, is precisely what the Buddha does in chapter one of the Lotus Sutra, when he preaches the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra

I presume that your condemnation of my quoting the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra only extends to me and not Shakyamuni.

I made the counterpoint that Immeasurable Meanings Sutra was not provisional and a candidate for discarding although it was lesser than the Lotus Sutra, quite clearly: this you distorted into my saying that they were equal, which I never said, not once.

Now, it appears that you might be allowing me to quote from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra once again, in the same manner that the Buddha does in chapter one of the Lotus Sutra.

Thank you you for that much, Iain.

[Chas.]

Once again, David Cole, I will remind you that all of your efforts to be the middleman between the "sectarian" disputing parties of Nichiren Shoshu and the SGI are completely rejected by anyone who knows your true actions and intent.

You parasitically latched onto Mr. Williams as he was declining to his death, to get him to defame President Ikeda and make a public denunciation of him and the SGI. You failed in this, to his credit.

Actually, I thank you for that failed act of treason, for his sake.

It is in the same way that I thank Nikken for disassociating all of the SGI from the utterly corrupt Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood, and the thug Nichinyo for maintaining that disassociation for the last decade. So don't take any comfort from my gratitude.

You have offered yourself as the objective mediator above the squabbling sides to bring about a reunification of the recalcitrant SGI with the forgiving Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood.

This role, as a new Yamazaki, to lead us down the garden path to hellishness and the death of Kosen Rufu has been summarily rejected and will continue to be.

We don't need another Yamazaki, David Cole.

No reunification of the SGI with the Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood, ever!

-Chas.

[kelpzoidzl]

Chas, being a "Middleman," in Buddhism, means someone who has sat on the "Platform of the Path," and experienced the opening of the middle way. This is the meaning of "Original Gate."

Here, there is no disagreement. Here is where "actual proof," resides. This is where the Ceremony in the Air is seen. This is where the promises are made.

Fervor for buddhism can be a double edged sword, for those who are arrogant and shallow.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Chas,

Blanket statement: If someone steps off a 9 story roof into clear space, where there are no obstructions to break the fall or divert its course and if at the bottom lies a solid concrete floor, we can say with certainty that the person who has taken that step off the roof will die. The reason this is so is because of the immense forces that are generated in the fall and the inability for a human body to control and dissipate those forces safely upon impact.

It is likewise with SGI. It has deviated from the teachings that it was set up to propagate, it has successfully circumvented the safeguards it put in place to prevent such a situation arising and it has done all this whilst millions of its members, me included chanted Nam myoho renge kyo. Therefore, I can only conclude that it's deviation and gradual corruption is in rhythm with the Law, its purpose is accomplished, like a flower's bloom after it has been pollinated, now it must wither away.

Since it cannot be destroyed from outside, it must destroy itself from the inside. These are the forces that are now at work and they are in the ascendant. Were that not so, a person like me simply wouldn't be writing this post. The many sound people who entered the practice and SGI at around the same time, who have sustained a solid practice and faith, supported the SGI solidly and who have transformed their lives, would not also have walked away or be about to do so.

SGI as an entity may survive, organisations have a way of reinventing themselves to try and survive and it may appeal to people who need to follow guru because they cannot possibly conceive that they themselves hold their answers and can access the truth. However, as an organisation that helps people understand thier own innate capacity and capability, it's day is done.

It is already no longer an organisation that teaches that. Attainment of enlightenment has already had conditions placed around it in SGI later teaching, no longer is it simply enough to chant with correct faith, practice the ninth consciousness and bring forth Buddhahood, now one can only bring forth this state if one practices the way of mentor and disciple, focused on the person of Mr Ikeda as the mentor. In SGI today, and you are ample testament to this Chas, one can only understand Buddhism correctly by studying his interpretations of the Sutra and Gosho, interpretations that now teach and emphasise the mentor disciple relationship as a means and de-emphasise the Gohonzon. Interpretations that are increasingly confused and at variance with the Gosho and Sutra AND with Mr Ikeda's earlier lectures and interpretations. This is a far cry from the organisation I joined and the way of practice it so ably taught me and others. This is why SGI's day is done.

You might be right, the SGI may turn this around, in a way I hope you are but it seems unlikely. To many are bought into the deception and to many of those who are not have either left or will do so. Who then will be left to remind the SGI of it's good roots or mission? If you will explain away the clear differences in Mr Ikeda's own teaching then and now, if you will prefer not to respond seriously to a side-by-side and like for like comparison, so the you can continue to follow your mentor and the teachings that are being espoused by SGI now you cannot be a force for change. It seems to me you have no wish to be.

Even though you will accuse me of stuffing words into your mouth if I say you think Mr Ikeda is infallible, you refuse to confirm that he is. That's just too great a step for you to take. So I think we can be sure that you will never challenge your 'Sensei', you will never call into question what he is purportedly teaching you now, his words are 'golden' to you and always right. He knows better than you, even though you practice a Buddhism that teaches that you have your own access to the truth, that gives you the means to evaluate everything and anything from an enlightened perspective, yet even at the level of critical thinking and textual analysis, you are unwilling to even engage and question why such changes have taken place or to consider how such changes serve to support the SGI safeguards. As they say 'a sword is useless in the hands of a coward'.

Of course, you'll be well aware that Mr Ikeda, even at 87 years of age, has his finger firmly on the pulse of DGI and it's millions of members, he is busy every day writing guidance based in his daimoku. You know this Chas because SGI publications tell you that don't they, this is the image they present, so it must be true. And you know that of all the people who write to 'Sensei' each and everyone of those letters is considered personally by him and gets a tailored reply. How many people do you think write to him every day? 1% of the SGI membership? Smaller? 0.5%? Larger?


If it's just 0.5% of a 12 million membership, that's 60,000 letters per day. If Mr Ikeda looked at each one and use speed reading and lots of Daimoku to grasp the essence and draft a suitable reply, all in 30 seconds, that would take him 500 hours/21 days to get through that stack. Spend a minute and we're up to 42 days. And then there's the guidance to be written and the next book. One might consider that SGI members were being encouraged not to write to him, after all he is busy and he is older now but that's not the case is it Chas? Why is that?

What I'm illustrating, should you care to open your eyes and look, is that Mr Ikeda is an older individual who is most probably not engaged in daily SGI activities. He has a staff to run things, he will rely on briefings and reports and even if he gives instructions, how will he know these are being carried out correctly?

I'm also illustrating the disconnect between the way the mentor is presented in SGI publications and rhetoric and the realities of being an elderly head of a global organisation, the dissonance between the reality and the image that's being projected.

If you're happy with the illusion, by all means carry on in your willing suspension of disbelief and play your part in getting others to suspend theirs. I will not, I don't think it's honest, I don't think it's fair and I think it is dangerous.

But as I said, the new brand is firmly established now, SGI is just running out the old lines, soon there will be a pure body of believers of mentor disciple, nominally chanting Daimoku to a scroll, whose meaning will increasingly becoming academic.

If SGI survives at all it will probably be more like Risshō Kōsei Kai but with Mr Ikeda as its central figure and his supposed "teachings" as its central cannon.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks David,

"Buddhism avoids the "either-or" kind of thinking that permeates sectarian bickering."

Simply not true. In preaching the sutras, Buddhism makes extensive use of either-or thinking. It uses either/or, and/both and plays them together to help people reach the truth. The Sutra itself states quite clearly that distinctions are made. Either/or is implicit when a distinction has been made and there is any kind of 'not' statement or contrast being made.

I take your point though, what is often missed is that the deductive reasoning so favoured in the Westen traditions is overplayed, inductive reasoning is also necessary and is underplayed. :)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Correction:

Of course this sentence was missing the 'fallible' at the end:

"Even though you will accuse me of stuffing words into your mouth if I say you think Mr Ikeda is infallible, you refuse to confirm that he is."

It should read:

"Even though you will accuse me of stuffing words into your mouth if I say you think Mr Ikeda is infallible, you refuse to confirm that he is fallible."

[kelpzoidzl]

I am talking about the Middle Way when I am talking about either-or or neither -nor. As in the negations in the Muryogi -kyo or various passages of the Lotus Sutra, such as:

"They are continually entangled in the thickets of (sectarian) theories, such as, 'It is and it is not; it is thus and it is not thus.' In trying to get a decided opinion on what is found in the sixty-two (heretical) theories they come to embrace falsehood and continue in it." Ch 2
.
This is most important during actual practice, when thoughts in the mind are distractions. Nichiren said "two thoughts can contradict each other." The middle way is fundamental to the concentration as in kyochi-myogo. A person with contradictory thoughts has difficulty focusing and subduing their mental distractions. The sutra says, "they become attached to one point or another."

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks David, that makes perfect sense and I agree. :)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

.

[kelpzoidzl]

In the animal world, there are social herding animals and solitary animals. Territoriality, dominance and submission, jealousy, murder of even siblings, parents or children occurs. A male leopard eventually chases away it's male children from it's territory or may even murder a female that might produce offspring to challenge it during it's lifetime.

Nature of animals is very sad. The leopard is beautiful and dominant yet has to hide from lions who live in packs and could kill it. The children of even the most vicious animals, play like kittens, or puppies, while under protection of parents yet the real truth of reality, as they grow up, is that life becomes grim and horrifying, even their parents see them as adversaries, all of them responding to inherent drives and terror.

That animals eat each other or graze for vegetables and all of them are embroiled in hellish realms and at the mercy of parasites and diseases. Humans are no exception.

The Buddhist principles of cause and effect, mutual possession, Ten Realms and 3000 lifestates, the inscription on the Gohonzon, the practice of reciting the Lotus Sutra and the Great Title, Kyochi Myogo, encompasses, both the documentary, theoretical and actual types of "proof." of what existence is and how to leave the hellish, animalistic realms, seeking eternity, purity, happiness and a greater meaning of existence. It points to indestructible happiness. It embodies self and environment of individuals and groups of all possible creatures including Human and "Heavenly Beings," Bodhisattvas and Buddhas. Arguing over what the core teaching and practice is, is proof of ignorance. Even though the principles are claimed, the lower realms are still deeply rooted.

While the world religions all claim to be a path to paradise, religious sects composed of ignorant people, echo the four lower realms, and act out animal drives, mimicking animal territoriality, and life habits, "weeping and gnashing of teeth," forced by nature, to obtain food and shelter and dominance, forced to conform like ants to the hive, all terminal beings livng in the hell of incessant punishment, all the while propagating the species.

All are told that they must submit to the hive and submit to masters and bosses, in hierarchies under their God or Buddha. Whether it is the God of the Ants, or the Gods of Humans, beings are driven by karma and besides propagation of the species, there is a brutal force of the "fidelity" of transmission. From the lowest creatures ways of the world, to that of the ways of human beings, including ways of religion, Fidelity is fought over. Even Into the core of the biological cells, the genetics, follow the same impersonal principles.

The drive for "Paradise," is the bait, the natural expedient means of facing inevitable death. The lower creatures are also seeking "Paradise," in a manner of speaking, with instinctual desires and habituat behaviors, even though the only time they aspire to enlightenment or Awakening is found in human fairy tales.

What "fairy tales," do humans believe?

The Buddha Gautama, the actual person, never suggested followers were to worship him. The Sutras composed by later followers, over a thousand years, in the manner of more ancient Hinduism, eventually pointed to worship of Buddhas. They put forth different Buddhas, in contrived paradises, in competitive fashion. Animal Dominance raises it's head over and over. Sects argue. How disgraceful are humans?

Gautama Buddha, taught principles and practice, which he himself followed and understood, because he had experienced an awakening that was the proof he needed. Who did he worship? Who was his master? What experience during meditation, showed him the ultimate reality and path?

Just a glimpse of the horns of a Bull above a fence, means there is a Bull behind the fence, or deceivers holding up horns on a stick. What revelatory experiences during meditation and prayer are real and which are delusions? If one has a true awakening, like knowing there is a Bull behind the fence, does this mean that awakening is "Supreme and Perfect Enlightenment?" Is this any better then the lies lived by lower animals enmeshed in the killng floor, believing their ant priorities in an endless cycle of birth and death? Their lives are blurred out by submission to nature and hopelessness.

Why would a certain small number of Mahayana Sutras and especially the Lotus Sutra, none of them composed by, or a direct teaching of Gautama Buddha and very contradictory of other Sutras, be considered the Truth of existence? What is the proof?

Arrogant people claim they have the true sect or the true ideas. They wallow in animality, upholding their own correctness, but none of them can discuss their own experience of awakening, much less teach a way for all to awaken. They can't even prove there is a way to awakening or that enlightenment produces happiness. Instead, they mouth scriotures and writings and split hairs that are in their imagination. Each person disagrees, one by one, trapped in the world, hoping for a future happiness and adhering to ideas without actual proof or a single truth that all the Buddhas adhere and agree to.

The proof of the Sutra can only be found in practice, but if that proof is only a glimpse of the horns of a bull and since the human desires, are ultimately like the King Devil, how can a worldly paradise or eternal happiness ever manifest?

Just to correct those with no experiential basis, is not enough, the poison has already entered the system. One would have to be able to cure them at their core. All traces of animal realms would have to be removed. For them to be in unity and of the same mind, they would have to have the same experiece of awakening and reach a stage of non-retrogression. Even in old age, memory of eternity would only increase. Instead, memory fades as most people age, until they cannot even recognize their own family or even their own name if they live that long, What their future births will be is even more negative.

But keep it up all the arrogant fools, with sectarian bickering and stupid hair splitting.

[Dennis G]

I think there's a lot of sense in the above post and thank kelpzoidzl for posting it.

[Chas.]

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:19:00 PM UTC-7, Dennis G wrote:
> I think there's a lot of sense in the above post and thank kelpzoidzl for posting it.

David Cole argues against Nichiren Daishonin, who was the hair-splitter-in-chief. David Cole is a would-be Yamazaki, as I point out the history of, 10 posts back in this very chain of posts.

I'll remind you of Nichiren Daishonin splitting hairs, from my WND, volume I cheat sheet (it was my shield, before the Gosho appeared searchable on the web):
____________________________________________________

‘ The "Thus Come One's secret" refers to the entity of the Buddha's three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha. "His transcendental powers" refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas. A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him with the three virtues. ‘: The True Aspect of All Phenomena: p384 c1 par1

'Thus even a ruler on a throne must take care not to give unreserved expression to his thoughts. The worthy man Confucius held to his belief "Nine thoughts to one word," which means that he reconsidered nine times before he spoke. … The heart of the Buddha's lifetime of teachings is the Lotus Sutra, and the heart of the practice of the Lotus Sutra is found in the "Never Disparaging" chapter. What does Bodhisattva Never Disparaging's profound respect for people signify? The purpose of the appearance in this world of Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, lies in his behavior as a human being. The wise may be called human, but the thoughtless are no more than animals.': The Three Kinds of Treasure: p851 c2 par2

The meaning of this passage is that, if one turns one's back on even one verse or one phrase of this sutra, one is guilty of a crime equal to that of killing all the Buddhas of the ten directions in the three existences of past, present, and future.: Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man: p108 c1 par2

Putting the Gohonzon First: “Utsubusa came a long distance to visit me despite her advanced age, but since I was told that it was merely a casual visit on her way back from the shrine to the god of her ancestors, I would not see her, although I pitied her greatly. Had I permitted her to see me, I would have been allowing her to commit slander against the Lotus Sutra.”: Letter to Misawa: p896 c2 par2

"If we merely rely upon the commentaries of various teachers and do not follow the statements of the Buddha himself, then how can we call our beliefs Buddhism?": Questions and Answers about Embracing the Lotus Sutra: p56 c2 par1

"Rely on the Law and not upon persons.": On Repaying Debts of Gratitude: p692 c1 par2

"The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha.": How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can Attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra: p872 c2 par2

"These statements are in truth the Buddha's own golden words.": How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can Attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra: p874 c2 par1

' Bodhisattva Nagarjuna in his Commentary on the Ten Stages Sutra states, "Do not rely on treatises that distort the sutras; rely on those that are faithful to the sutras." The Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai says, "That which accords with the sutras is to be written down and made available. But put no faith in anything that in word or meaning fails to do so." The Great Teacher Dengyo says, "Depend upon the preachings of the Buddha, and do not put faith in traditions handed down orally." Enchin, also known as the Great Teacher Chisho, says, "In transmitting the teachings, rely on the written words [of scriptures]." ': The Opening of the Eyes: p263 c2 bot

' "Not relying upon persons" means that when persons of the first, second, third, and fourth ranks preach, even though they are bodhisattvas such as Universal Worthy and Manjushri who have attained the stage of near-perfect enlightenment, if they do not preach with the sutra in hand, then they are not to be accepted. ': The Opening of the Eyes: p263 c2 par1-end

"They will be like a cat on the prowl for mice. ... Outwardly they will seem to be wise and good, but within they will harbor greed and jealousy. [And when they are asked to preach the teachings, they will say nothing,] like Brahmans who have taken a vow of silence. They are not true monks--they merely have the appearance of monks. Consumed by their erroneous views, they slander the correct teaching.": The Opening of the Eyes: p271 c1 par2

"Rely on sutras that are complete and final": On Repaying Debts of Gratitude: p692 c1 par3

"The Nirvana Sutra alone of all the sutras has passages that resemble those of the Lotus Sutra.": On Repaying Debts of Gratitude: p692 c2 par1

The Lotus Sutra Is Not Discarded: "In the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law, only the essential teaching spreads, but even so, the theoretical teaching should not be discarded. Nowhere in the entire Lotus Sutra do we find a passage suggesting that we should discard the first fourteen chapters, which comprise the theoretical teaching. ... In the present period the essential teaching is primary, while the theoretical teaching is subordinate. But those who therefore discard the latter, saying it is not the way to enlightenment, and believe only in the former, have not yet understood the doctrine of Nichiren's true intention. Theirs is a completely distorted view.": On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion: p978 c1 par2-mid

"Concerning [the Buddha's statement] that this wonderful sutra surpasses all those of past, present, and future, there are those who persist in going astray.": The Opening of the Eyes: p264 c2 par3

"but his [Kumarajiva's] tongue alone remained, resting on top of a blue lotus blossom": Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man: p113 c1 par1

"The sutras that you rely upon are all in error.": Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man: p113 c1 par2

" ... differences between the practices of shoju and shakubuku." [Teacher Dengyo’s remark "If in the Latter Day of the Law there should be persons who keep the precepts, that would be something rare and strange, like a tiger in the marketplace. Who could possibly believe it?"]: The Third Doctrine: p856 c2 top

Answer: Anyone who practices Buddhism should first understand the two types of practice--shoju and shakubuku.: On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings: p394 c1 par1

In this age, the provisional teachings have turned into enemies of the true teaching. When the time is right to propagate the teaching of the one vehicle, the provisional teachings become enemies. When they are a source of confusion, they must be thoroughly refuted from the standpoint of the true teaching. Of the two types of practice, this is shakubuku, the practice of the Lotus Sutra. With good reason T'ient'ai stated, "The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.": On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings: p394 c2 top

The four peaceful practices [in the "Peaceful Practices" chapter] correspond to shoju. To carry them out in this age would be as foolish as sowing seeds in winter and expecting to reap the harvest in spring.: On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings: p394 c2 top

Now, when the true and the provisional teachings are utterly confused, it would be equally unnatural for one to seclude oneself in the mountain forests and carry out the peaceful practice of shoju without refuting the enemies of the Lotus Sutra. One would lose the chance to practice the Lotus Sutra.: On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings: p394 c2 par1

From the ruler on down to the common people, all have become slanderers of the Law whose offense exceeds the five cardinal sins. Therefore, all of you are also on the side of the ruler. Although at heart you are of the same mind as Nichiren, since your person is in service to your lord, it would have been extremely difficult for you to have avoided the offense of complicity in slander. How admirable it is that, despite this, you communicated this teaching to your lord and urged him to take faith in it. Even though he may fail to accept it now, you have managed to avoid the offense of complicity.: On Recommending This Teaching to Your Lord and Avoiding the Offense of Complicity in Slander: p461 c1 top

Because I, Nichiren, have for some time been able to see the great error of its ways, because I wish to avoid the offense of complicity in slander, ... The precept against the killing of living beings is the first among all the various precepts. ... The reason is that "even the treasures of the entire major world system cannot equal the value of one's body and life," ... And yet, grave as are these prohibitions against taking life, it is stated that, if a person acts as an enemy of the Lotus Sutra, then to put such a person to death is to perform an act of outstanding merit. And if this is so, then how could it possibly be right to offer alms and support to that person?: Letter to Akimoto: p1019 c1 par1-4

However, there is a difference if one chants the daimoku while acting against the intent of this sutra. There are various stages in the practice of this sutra [and various forms of slander exist accordingly]. Let me sum them up by quoting from volume five of The Annotations on "The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra": "In defining the types of evil, The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra states briefly, 'Expound among the wise but not among the foolish.' One scholar enumerates the types of evil as follows: 'I will first list the evil causes and then their effects. There are fourteen evil causes: (1) arrogance, (2) negligence, (3) wrong views of the self, (4) shallow understanding, (5) attachment to earthly desires, (6) not understanding, (7) not believing, (8) scowling with knitted brows, (9) harboring doubts, (10) slandering, (11) despising, (12) hating, (13) envying, and (14) bearing grudges.' " Since these fourteen slanders apply equally to priesthood and laity, you must be on guard against them.: The Fourteen Slanders: p756 c1 par1

Bodhisattva Never Disparaging ... further stated that to slight a person is to slight the Buddha himself. ... it is all the more natural to revere those priests and lay people who do embrace the sutra. … .: The Fourteen Slanders : p756 c1 bot

The fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states, "If there were a person who spoke only one word to curse the lay persons or monks or nuns who uphold and preach the Lotus Sutra, then his offense would be even graver than that of cursing Shakyamuni Buddha to his face for the space of a kalpa." The Lotus Sutra also states, "[If anyone sees a person who accepts and upholds this sutra and tries to expose the faults or evils of that person], whether what he speaks is true or not, [he will in his present existence be afflicted with white leprosy]." Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another. All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense.: The Fourteen Slanders : p756 c2 par1

But it is not enough that I alone should accept and have faith in your words--we must see to it that others as well are warned of their errors.: On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land: p26 c2 last words of the Guest.

Moreover, every single person is guilty of slander of the Law, an offense exceeding even the ten evil acts or the five cardinal sins. Although few people slander the Lotus Sutra with actual words of abuse, there are none who accept it. Some appear to accept the sutra, but their faith in it is not as deep as their faith in the Nembutsu or other teachings. And even those with profound faith do not reproach the enemies of the Lotus Sutra. However great the good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand times, or attains the way of perceiving three thousand realms in a single moment of life, if one fails to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to attain the way.: Encouragement to a Sick Person, p77 c2 bot

"A blue fly, if it clings to the tail of a thoroughbred horse, ...": On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land: p17 c2 par 3
"snake that grips a jewel in its mouth ... dragon ... wisteria vine ... crane ... can travel ten thousand ri. It is not their own strength that allows them to do these things.": On Offerings for Deceased Ancestors: p820 c2 par3

"Have no fear of mad elephants. What you should fear are evil friends!": Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro: p159 c1 par1

"It makes no difference if the practitioner himself is lacking in worth ... One does not throw away gold because the bag that holds it is dirty.": On Prayer: p345 c2 par2

And because Devadatta observed these rules, people came to believe that he was far superior to the Buddha, and that they were as far apart as clouds and mud.
In this way Devadatta sought to deprive the Buddha of his standing.: Letter to Horen: p506 c1 bot

"But a vessel is susceptible to four faults.": Letter to Akimoto: p1014 c1 par4
‘Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra whose mouths are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment, but Namu Amida Butsu the next. This is like mixing filth with one's rice, or putting sand or pebbles in it. This is what the Lotus Sutra is warning against when it says, "Desiring only to accept and embrace the sutra of the great vehicle and not accepting a single verse of the other sutras." [Lotus Sutra, chap. 3.]
The learned authorities in the world today suppose that there is no harm in mixing extraneous practices with the practice of the Lotus Sutra, and I, Nichiren, was once of that opinion myself. But the passage from the sutra [that I have just quoted] does not permit such a view.': Letter to Akimoto: p1014 c2 bot

"The doctrine of the sowing of the seed and its maturing and harvesting is the very heart and core of the Lotus Sutra.": Letter to Akimoto: p1015 c1 par1

"There are two types of people who show animosity toward the Lotus Sutra.": Letter to Horen: p522 c2 par3

' He [Devadatta] confided to Crown Prince Ajatashatru: "I intend to kill the Buddha and become the new Buddha. You must kill your father, the king [Bimbisara], and become the new king in his place!" ': The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra: p146 c2 par2-bot

"They will violate not only the king's consort but also the daughters of the common people, thereby filling the country with the seed of slanderers.": On Omens: p647 c1 par1

"Shakyamuni cursed Devadatta, censured the various voice-hearers, and refused to teach the bodhisattvas the doctrines pertaining to the fruits of enlightenment.": On Prayer: p344 c1 par1

' Thus, for example, the World-Honored One cursed Devadatta, saying, "You are a fool who licks the spit of others!" ': The Opening of the Eyes: p245 c2 par2

"A dog may bark at a deer without having its skull broken, but if it barks at a lion, its bowels will rot. An asura who tried to swallow the sun and moon had his head shattered into seven pieces. Because Devadatta harmed the Buddha, the earth split open and swallowed him alive. The seriousness of an offense depends on the person one harms.": Letter to the Brothers: p494 c2 par1-mid

The Ongi Kuden: "Faith is like the price [of a jewel], and wisdom, like the jewel itself." (Gosho Zenshu p. 724)

Four Dictums (or Maxims, so-named by Nikko Shonin):
“But I, Nichiren, one man alone, declare that the recitation of the name of Amida Buddha is an action that leads to rebirth in the hell of incessant suffering, that the Zen school is the invention of the heavenly devil, that the True Word school is an evil doctrine that will destroy the country, and that the Precepts school and the observers of the precepts are traitors to the nation.”: Letter to Akimoto: p1016 c1 par1

First, Doubt From Persecutions: Aside from these people, there are also those who appeared to believe in me, but began doubting when they saw me persecuted. They not only have forsaken the Lotus Sutra, but also actually think themselves wise enough to instruct me.: Letter From Sado: p306 c1 par1-mid

Then, Weakness And Treason: ' In the same way, the renegade disciples say, "Though the priest Nichiren is our teacher, he is too forceful. We will spread the Lotus Sutra in a more peaceful way." ': Letter From Sado: p306 c2 bot

As Nichiren states in "The Essentials for Attaining Buddhahood", p. 747,

To hope to attain Buddhahood without speaking out against slander is as futile as trying to find water in the midst of fire or fire in the midst of water. No matter how sincerely one believes in the Lotus Sutra, if one is guilty of failing to rebuke slander of the Law, one will surely fall into hell, just as a single crab leg will ruin a thousand pots of lacquer. This is the meaning of the passage in the sutra, "Because the poison has penetrated deeply and their minds no longer function as before." [Note 5. Lotus Sutra, chap. 16.]

As Nichiren states in "Encouragement to a Sick Person", pp. 77-78,

Moreover, every single person is guilty of slander of the Law, an offense exceeding even the ten evil acts or the five cardinal sins. Although few people slander the Lotus Sutra with actual words of abuse, there are none who accept it. Some appear to accept the sutra, but their faith in it is not as deep as their faith in the Nembutsu or other teachings. And even those with profound faith do not reproach the enemies of the Lotus Sutra. However great the good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand times, or attains the way of perceiving three thousand realms in a single moment of life, if one fails to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to attain the way.

As Nichiren states in "Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man", p. 108,

"Is not one who fails to heed the warnings of this sutra in effect cutting off the tongues of the Buddhas and deceiving the worthies and sages? This offense is truly fearful. Thus, in the second volume it says, 'If a person fails to have faith but instead slanders this sutra, immediately he will destroy all the seeds for becoming a Buddha in this world.' [Note 34. Lotus Sutra, chap. 3.] The meaning of this passage is that, if one turns one's back on even one verse or one phrase of this sutra, one is guilty of a crime equal to that of killing all the Buddhas of the ten directions in the three existences of past, present, and future.

"If we use the teachings of the sutras as a mirror in which to examine our present world, we will see that it is a difficult thing to find one who does not betray the Lotus Sutra. And if we understand the true meaning of these matters, we can see that even a person of disbelief cannot avoid being reborn in the hell of incessant suffering. How much more so is this true, then, for someone like the Honorable Honen, the founder of the Nembutsu school, who urged people to discard the Lotus Sutra in favor of the Nembutsu! Where, may I ask, in all the five thousand or seven thousand volumes of sutras is there any passage that instructs us to discard the Lotus Sutra?
____________________________________________________

I have my favorites at the end of my cheat sheet.
____________________________________________________

From "On Curing Karmic Disease", WND p. 634:

"Contamination at the source of a river will pollute its entire length."

From "When the Roots Are Exposed, the Branches Wither", WND II, p. 1085:

The Three Treatises school too is founded on texts that are lacking in reason. If persons who are blind encounter its teachings, they are led into error. But if wise persons of clear vision do so, then the falsity of its doctrines becomes apparent. When the roots are exposed, the branches wither; when the springs dry up, the current ceases to flow-such is the natural principle.

The Nembutsu school, the Zen school, and the True Word school have roots that are founded in error and their springs lead to deception. But if their roots and their springs are exposed to view, though this may be done by so lowly a person as I, Nichiren, then, so long as Heaven's design is to bring about a time when the great Law will spread abroad, those evil teachings will be defeated and the true Law will be established-there can be no doubt of this.

Do you realize that already the time is at hand when these evil teachings will vanish? I may be despised and mercilessly hounded ...

From the Orally Transmitted Teachings, chapter 16 "Life Span", p. 139:

Ultimately, now that we have entered the Latter Day of the Law, those who “practice the way” are the votaries of the Lotus Sutra, while those who “do not” are the slanderers of the Law. The word “way” stands for the Lotus Sutra. As T’ien-t’ai says, “The term ‘Buddha way’ refers to this sutra [the Lotus] in particular.”

Now Nichiren and his followers, who chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, are those who “practice the way,” while those who do not chant it are those who “do not [practice the way].”


From "The Embankments of Faith", WND I, p. 74:

Now you should make a great vow and pray for your next life. If you are disbelieving or slander the correct teaching even in the slightest, you will certainly fall into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. Suppose there is a ship that sails on the open sea. Though the ship is stoutly built, if it is flooded by a leak, those on the ship are sure to drown together. Though the embankment between rice fields is firm, if there is an ant hole in it, then surely, in the long run, it will not remain full of water. Bail the seawater of slander and disbelief out of the ship of your life, and solidify the embankments of your faith. If a believer’s offense is slight, overlook it, and lead that person to obtain benefits. If it is serious, encourage him to strengthen his faith so that he can expiate the sin.

From the Orally Transmitted Teachings, p. 138,

Point Seventeen, on the words "Abandoning restraint, they give themselves up to the five desires / and fall into the evil paths of existence."

The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: "Abandoning restraint" is a term designating slander of the Law. Those who do so are without doubt destined to fall into the Avichi hell.

But now Nichiren and his followers, who chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, are exempted from the fate referred to in this passage of the sutra.
____________________________________________________

The people asking us to shut up about it are effectively silencing Nichiren Daishonin's words coming from our quotes from the Gosho.

I will eventually be silenced, but he will not be.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Chas reveals lack of discernment in choosing " quotes" by Nichiren from an errant priest 's fantasial cliff notes of lectures on the Sutra that never happened !!

Chas also follows that chubby Japanese billionaire who has disappeared from the spot light for the past five years -- No one can say for certain whether Chas' beloved mentor is dead or just demented !!!

~Katie

[Dennis G]

Hi Katie,
I find Chas's cheat sheet very informative. Have you read it?
I don't see how you can condemn him for "choosing quotes" when that is exactly what you do too.
If this, in your eyes, make me a general, all round snotgobblingf@#Kpig then that's fine by me.
I come to this forum to learn and to be honest (which I always like to be) have learnt more from Chas's posts than anyones.

[Katie Higgins]

You came to this forum as a poorly concealed SGI gadfly -- now fully exposed as you've lit on arbn 's biggest pile of dung!!

~Katie

[Dennis G]

On Friday, 5 May 2017 14:35:48 UTC+7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> You came to this forum as a poorly concealed SGI gadfly -- now fully exposed as you've lit on arbn 's biggest pile of dung!!
>
> ~Katie

Katie, what is it with you and personal insults? Do you think they're clever? Maybe you think I'm below you or maybe you just feel safer with your beliefs by feeling superior?

[lyal...@gmail.com]

You Dennis take the cake for being bottom of the barrel lowest of the low Nichiren Gohonzon burner without remorse. Is this the result from your sgi friendship club or are you the typical garden variety of psychopath that the SGI recruits for leadership

[Dennis G]

Firstly, I like cake. Secondly, what barrel? Thirdly, of I gave you the idea that there was no remorse then it was miscommunication. Fourthly, certainly not everyone I've met in the SGI I would call a friend and lastly, never seen myself as a leader or even been approached about being one.
Maybe if I'd had stayed in the UK, it might have been different. One of the several challenges of residing in a country where one can't fluently speak the language.

[kelpzoidzl]

Nichiren wrote: "Take these teachings to heart, and always remember that believers in the Lotus Sutra should absolutely be the last to abuse one another.

All those who keep faith in the Lotus Sutra are most certainly Buddhas, and one who slanders a Buddha commits a grave offense.

When one chants the daimoku bearing in mind that there are no distinctions among those who embrace the Lotus Sutra, then the blessings one gains will be equal to those of Shakyamuni Buddha."

Obviously when Nichiren was refuting the perversions incorporated into Buddhism in his day, he was not referring to felliow practitioners. He warned his followers with the above writing.

Nevertheless, the animality of the arbn arguers and the Nichiren sect schisms are utterly working against the wishes if Nichiren. Whether the slanderers are the leaders of SGI, N SHOSHU, N SHU, etc, they have been driven by their animal karma.

Both Chas and the Mark faction are hung up on words and literalism. It is animality, plain and simple. Do they even chant Daimoku?

Obviously they are acting out a fake Nichiren complex, but it runs deeper then that. Were Nichiren here to scold them he would point out they should be the "last to abuse each other."

Ultmately the sect leaders are most to blame. True Buddhist experience that coincides with the Lotus Sutra itself is rare and it is rare to find people whose practise came out of genuine experience.

It is disgraceful how these people turned against what were Nichiren's wishes. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding.

[lyal...@gmail.com]

Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was he;
He called for his pipe,
And he called for his bowl,
And he called for his fiddlers three.
Ev'ry fiddler had a fiddle,
And a very fine fiddle had he.
Tweedle dee, tweedle dee,
Tweedle dee, tweedle dee,
Tweedle dee, tweedle dee,
Went the fiddlers three,
Oh there's none so rare
As can compare,
With King Cole and his fiddlers three.

[lyal...@gmail.com]

There's a breathless hush in the close to-night
Ten to make and the match to win
A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
An hour to play, and the last man in.
And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat.
Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
"Play up! Play up! And play the game!"


The sand of the desert is sodden red-
Red with the wreck of the square that broke
The gatling's jammed and the colonel dead,
And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
The river of death has brimmed its banks,
And England's far and Honor a name,
But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks-
"Play up! Play up! And play the game!"


This is the word that year by year,
While in her place the school is set,
Every one of her sons must hear,
And none that hears it dare forget.
This they all with joyful mind
And bear through life Eke a torch in flame,
falling fling to the host behind-
"Play up! Play up! And play the game!"

[Dennis G]

Ha Ha... Not sure if you've posted these on the wrong forum? Maybe "Poets Anonymous" would be their home. I'm guessing not and that there is a comedic angle.
However, on checking Henry Newbolt out, who I had never heard or before, it seems he was quite well known;

Sir Henry John Newbolt, CH (6 June 1862 – 19 April 1938) was an English poet, novelist and historian.[1] He also had a very powerful role as a government adviser, particularly on Irish issues and with regard to the study of English in England. He is perhaps best remembered for his poems "Vitaï Lampada" and "Drake's Drum".

So that's mt piece of Enlgish history for the day. Thanks Noel.

[Katie Higgins]

Wow! What a sermon !!

I wondered when you might get around to apologizing for taking part in the degrading FAKE News campaign against Hillary Clinton? You shared the story here that culminated in the " pizza gate" shooting incident-/

Where's your moral compsss ?

~Katie

[Chas.]

Actually, David, I chant in excess of 5 million daimoku a year. I keep track of it daily, in units of five minutes, rounded down. Now I'm sure you will chalenge me for being a chant-a-holic, and such is the way of the would be Yamazaki.

With Noel and Katie and Mark Rogow, you all make a nice set of Four Horsemen for the Apocalypse. I would start digging a fallout shelter, but I am on ground zero anyway.

Oh, and by the way, you cannot pretend to rise above the "warring" factions when you are an active agent in the Gakkai-hating brigade (referring to your campaign to turn the dying old Mr. Williams against Sensei, which failed.)

We don't need another Yamazaki, David Cole.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

You chant truncated daimoku with a mind warped by Ikeda-ism - effects are obvious !!

~ Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Referring to DAVE's latest pompous pronouncements -/

[Chas.]

On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 9:26:27 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> You chant truncated daimoku with a mind warped by Ikeda-ism - effects are obvious !!
>
> ~ Katie

When you sling your fecal matter like a monkey at the zoo, at Sensei and the SGI whose nobility is beyond your ken, it is nothing compared to what the Japanese press slings at him daily.

The common mortal is the true Buddha, Katie Higgins. Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha and a function of the true Buddha, to lead the common people to a better life.

Unlike your distortions of Buddhism, Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, means the very same Lotus Sutra wherein the passages of the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra are preached describing the requirements of the supreme object of devotion across Jambudvipa, that of the true aspect, which means having no aspect of any image or form of any living being or temporal entity. And that means no worshiping statues of perfectly imagined beautiful men. You should stop that embarrassing practice and stand up for yourself Katie.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

I just saw this very same comment-- posted by lazy boy, Chas-- who chants truncated daimoku with a mind warped by Ikeda-ism---

~Katie

[Chas.]

Well then you should be capable of actually reading what I write one time and understanding it.

If you actually paid anything other than lip service to the Gosho, you would pay attention to the fact that the actual name of the original and eternal Buddha is not the name of any impermanent human being, like Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin. The actual name of the entity is "Myoho-Renge" which you pay only lip service to when you chant in the priestly manner:

From "The Entity of the Mystic Law", p. 420:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-30

... Question: The Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai has explained that
... the term Myoho-renge is used in two different senses, one
... meaning the entity of Myoho-renge and the other being
... figurative in meaning. What are these two kinds of renge,
... or lotus?
...
... Answer: The figurative renge, or lotus, is explained in
... detail in the three metaphors of the lotus blossom
... enfolding the seed, the lotus blossom opening to reveal the
... seed inside, and the lotus blossom falling and the
... seed ripening, so one should refer to them. The lotus that
... is the entity of Myoho-renge is explained in the seventh
... volume of The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra as
>> follows: "RENGE, OR LOTUS, IS NOT A SYMBOL; IT IS THE
>> ACTUAL NAME OF THE ENTITY. For example, at the beginning
... of the kalpa of continuance, the various things in the
... world had no names. The sage observed the principles that
... govern them and on that basis made up names for them." He
... also writes: "Now the name renge is not intended as a
... symbol for anything. It is the teaching expounded in the
... Lotus Sutra. The teaching expounded in the Lotus Sutra is
... pure and undefiled and explains the subtleties of cause
... and effect. Therefore, it is called renge, or lotus. This
... name designates the true entity that the meditation based
... on the Lotus Sutra reveals, and is not a metaphor or
... figurative term."

Note the line, Myoho-Renge is "the actual name of the entity," the Entity of the Mystic Law.

"The entity" of the Mystic Law, BTW, is the original Buddha, the Buddha of Limitless Joy, the Buddha of Beginningless Time, the eternal Buddha, the Buddha of the original state, or the true Buddha: these are all the same.

However, "the entity" is clearly not named Shakyamuni Buddha NOR Nichiren Daishonin, in spite of their profound roles in manifesting the enlightenement of the Lotus Sutra, preaching the Lotus Sutra and leading the Kosen Rufu endeavour to spread it widely.

Myoho-Renge is the entity of eternal enlightenment, not named after someone who practiced Brahmanism (Shakyamuni) or Amida Buddhism (Nichiren Daishonin) earlier in their life. These are real people, who emerge from the impurities of the Saha World and attain enlightenment through the Lotus Sutra alone, and no other practice (in fact, in spite of other grievous slanders of the Law.)

We all manifest Myoho-Renge when we chant the daimoku: when we give voice to the eternal truth of the Law. However, all common mortals are two, but not two, both deluded and enlightened: we are the true Buddha.

Myoho-Renge is always pure and true, never off the mark from beginning to end. This is why we don't worship human beings or statues manifesting their visage or the aspect of their impermanence: we would not want to repeat their errors.

One of the errors that neither Shakyamuni nor Nichiren Daishonin are known for is the error of the kind of preening arrogance that would be in any way comfortable with being worshiped like a Hindu god, and certainly not as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth in some traditionally deifying sense.

Shakyamuni and Nichiren Daishonin must suffer greatly at the slanders of sincere followers misled by the corrupted priests of Nichiren Shu and the Nikko sects as described at the top quote regarding statue worship of them: being hoisted up and placed in front of the Gohonzon.

According to the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, who was the son of "the grandfather".

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15

>> The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: IN
>> THIS PASSAGE WE LEARN ABOUT THE BUDDHA OF THE ORIGINAL
>> STATE [THAT IS, THE BUDDHA OF LIMITLESS JOY]. "GRANDFATHER"
>> IS ANOTHER NAME FOR THE DHARMA-REALM. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the "Expedient Means" chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as "grandfather." Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.
...
... The word "wheel-turning" refers to the phases of birth,
... abiding, change, and extinction. The words "sage king"
... refer to the element of the mind. These three factors,
... appearance, nature, and entity, are the father and mother
... of all the Buddhas of the three existences of past,
... present, and future.
...
... Now, when Nichiren and his followers chant
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they are acting as father and mother
... of the Buddhas of the three existences, as their
... grandfather, the wheel-turning sage king.

The followers of the 5 Senior Priests of Nichiren Shu consider the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings to ALSO BE FAKED (because its view of Buddhism would disallow statue worship and funeral Buddhism), but once again, the Gosho in many places AND THE CORE OF THE LOTUS SUTRA ITSELF, confirms this view.

That passage refers to this one, the one and only reference to "the grandfather", where his son, who is the father of 16th son Shakyamuni, Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, attains enlightenment when "the Law of the buddhas finally appeared before him". This from the mouth of Shakyamuni Buddha, himself:

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... "Now, monks, THE BUDDHA GREAT UNIVERSAL WISDOM EXCELLENCE
... PASSED TEN SMALL KALPAS BEFORE THE LAW OF THE BUDDHAS
... FINALLY APPEARED BEFORE HIM AND HE ATTAINED SUPREME
... PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT. Before this buddha left the
... householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
... hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
... all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
... place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
... thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
... alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
... arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
... to the ground.

Since the "grandfather" was the father of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, who was the father of the 16th son who later became Shakyamuni Buddha, and because the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence attained enlightenment prior to Shakyamuni, this is evidence from the one and only earliest timeline from the Lotus Sutra, that Shakyamuni Buddha was NOT the name of the Buddha of the original state.

In fact, anyone attaining enlightenment on any timeline for the first time cannot be named as the Buddha of the original state, who is enlightened from beginningless time, which is off the end of every timeline and not actually part of any history.

The "grandfather" is anonymous in the Lotus Sutra. The "grandfather" has no time associated with his enlightenment, or assignment of any progenitor and Nichiren Daishonin assigns him as primogenitor in that passage from the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, as the first: the "Buddha of the original state."

Now, can you read those passages with your superior reading ability, or will you continue to be oblivious to them?

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Disqualified re-interpretation of the Lotus Sutra . Employing FAKE documents is not acceptable, Chas -/ there is no excuse for your not knowing the Ongi Kuden is FAKE-- other than your refusal to acknowledge ALL of the evidence the Gakkai prohibits you from studying on your own !!

<Katie

[Chas.]

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:13:50 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Disqualified re-interpretation of the Lotus Sutra . Employing FAKE documents is not acceptable, Chas -/ there is no excuse for your not knowing the Ongi Kuden is FAKE-- other than your refusal to acknowledge ALL of the evidence the Gakkai prohibits you from studying on your own !!
>
> <Katie

So, "The Entity of the Mystic Law" Gosho letter is also now on your fake list?

Your Gosho is shrinking fast, Katie.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

FYI- those who practice as Nichiren taught read and study ALL of his writings, focus on the 10 major writings and naturally notice the divergence that appears in *disputed Gosho*

You have a very short list of "references" for your "woo", Chas-- That's the story of the tiny, mangled corpus your doctrines are based upon.

~Katie

[kelpzoidzl]

Incorrigible disbelief is at the root of stupid, blind, sectarian bickering amonst those claiming to be following the Buddhism. Their differences are bigger then their faith.

[Katie Higgins]

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 1:55:33 PM UTC-4, kelpzoidzl wrote:
> Incorrigible disbelief is at the root of stupid, blind, sectarian bickering amonst those claiming to be following the Buddhism. Their differences are bigger then their faith.

Do you have a passage of Nichiren's writings to support your view that heretical "sects" corrupting the teachings of the Buddha should NOT be challenged? I'd like to see upon whose teachings you have based your pronouncements over the behavior of those professing to practice Nichiren's teachings?

It looks like your own personal pronouncements-- arrogant false sage style edicts!!

~Katie

[kelpzoidzl]

The SGI Dictionary entry on Ishin Daie:

substituting faith for wisdom ［以信代慧］ ( ishin-daie): The principle that faith is the true cause for gaining supreme wisdom, and faith alone leads to enlightenment. In general, Buddhism describes supreme wisdom as the cause of enlightenment. According to the Lotus Sutra, however, even Shāriputra, who was revered as foremost in wisdom, could attain enlightenment only through faith, not through wisdom. The “Simile and Parable” (third) chapter of the sutra states: “Even you, Shāriputra, in the case of this sutra were able to gain entrance through faith alone. How much more so, then, the other voice-hearers. Those other voice-hearers—it is because they have faith in the Buddha’s words that they can comply with this sutra, not because of any wisdom of their own.” In Great Concentration and Insight, T’ien-t’ai (538–597) says, “Buddhism is like an ocean that one can only enter with faith.” In his 1277 treatise On the Four Stages of Faith and the Five Stages of Practice, Nichiren states, “Because our wisdom is inadequate, he [Shakyamuni Buddha] teaches us to substitute faith for wisdom, making this single word ‘faith’ the foundation” (785).

------

Faith, does not mean belittle others who chant the daimoku. Nichiren sects opposing each other is not faith. It is attempting to use mental distinctions rather then the power of faith.

Another meaning of Ishin Daie, trafitionally, has been "CHANGING faith into wisdom." In fact, this was the usual terminology, instead of translating this as "Substituting." In this meaning, "Wisdom," is true wisdom attained, starting with faith and leading to ttrue awakening. Nichiren used the analogy of the "be like a fly on the tail of the horse, being able to travel far." "Faith," could be like the willing fly and traveling far, could be like attaining true wisdom.

The distinctions offered up by arguing Nichiren sects, are like a bunch of flies argung over the horse. True Mahayana Buddhism has been called "The Truth BEYOND Distinction"

[lyal...@gmail.com]

So you're bets are on "truth beyond distinction only" horse David

I'll put mine on "truth beyond distinction and with distinction"horse = ichinen sanzen the oneness of duality and non duality

[Chas.]

Shakubuku is the action that is based on faith in the true teachings. Let's face it, public debate on religious issues is polemical. That is simply something you have to accept in participating. Feathers will fly!

That does not mean the kind of name-calling Katie partakes of (idiots, boy-band/gay, etc.) In an example, (where I hit hard, I might add) count the ad hominem names that Katie throws, and note that while I characterize her statue caressing behavior as wrong, I never call her any names.
_______________________________________________

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 8:52:23 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> >>"I'll say it again. Worshiping statues of flawless, beautiful people has a sexual component to it. It is sexually deviant. Witness the anger people show when you try to separate them from their sex object statues, images and idols. Like all things obsessive, it is an addiction, there is a reward center in the brain that is stimulated by the adoration, and neuroreceptors are fired by brain chemistry.<<"
>
> Well, maybe this is your perception, Chas? I am happy to share updates on my independent practice with regard to introducing Nichren's Lotus sutra Buddhism to my 8 and 11 year old grand children. They had this to say about "images" of Shakyamuni Buddha: "He must have been the first to show what gender neutrality looks like"!
>
> Your are not in touch with youth, Chas-- 50% of millennials recently polled after Emma Watson accepted the first "gender neutral" acting award tell us that gender exists across a spectrum and that conventional notions of sexual orientation and gender are inaccurate and damaging.
>
> Don't need to pint fingers at Sensei, he has been promoted ad nauseum by his own PR corporation , SGI-- but can responsibly report that his "image" evokes scowls and suspicion from "youth"-- and in the words of Arnold Toynbee's granddaughter, Polly, "Ikeda is the least spiritual person I have ever met."
>
> I think it is appropriate to point out that you have developed an obsession with my 4 inch statue of the Buddha-- and the fantasies you are experiencing cannot be viewed as anything but your own pathology -- I do NOT worship images or idols and you have forgotten, or so it seems that YOU, have shared here your "mystical" experience of seeing the character "myo" when you first made eye contact with Ikeda!!
>
> So, yeah, you most likely feel threatened in your delusion of deifying a common mortal that ordinary folks see as a flinty billionaire , cult leader, whose current condition is being hidden from his cult followers for good reason.
>
> ~Katie

Once again, Katie, you distort what anyone says to suit your purposes and that is simply lying.

I do not worship Sensei, nor deify him, and he would not make for anyone's idea of an object of devotion. He is my mentor, and that is all. It is all about heart. You, on the other hand, wax poetic about Shakymuni's gender neutral statues, meaning that those idols have universal sex appeal. That, simply said, is deviant sexual obsession with a four-inch human shape. Is it warm to the touch? Is it smooth, or rough? Does it have weight? Do you hold and caress it at odd times?

I have seen the Chinese ladies at the restaurant downtown, in a special booth with several statues of Buddhist gods. Some bigger, some smaller: all beautiful. They practice Shen-Dao, the Chinese progenitor of Shinto, which is your practice. They caress the statues while they talk in low tones. It is all profoundly sexual and clearly addictively so: they cannot even visit a restaurant without touching the smooth contours and rounded shape of the divine.

Get real Katie, what you are talking about is idolatry, not Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra.

-Chas.

[kelpzoidzl]

Predatory animals, dominate over non-predators, but themseves become prey and get eaten. The animal realm is constant suffering and all are on a wheel of karma, bound to death. When animals are newly born they exhibit joy in playing, but as they grow, they have to depending on their type, find their own territory or submit to herd politics. Even siblings or parents and children kill each other or exile others from a herd or flock.

All creatures including humans are in a sad, prison like existence, regardless of dominance, power, beauty or intelligence, yet at the moment of death they are drawn back to lfe, repeating endlessly the same tortures as if they are mindless robots programmed for dissolution. Whatever pride they may have as a self, is squashed, yet they endlessy reconstitute the same false identity. They fight to live another day. Every victory of a kill, only feeds them for a day or two.

Humans are not much different, but their arrogance is astounding. The same animal politics dominate every aspect of their lives including religion. That they are destined to lower animal realms due to stupidity and the darkness inherent in their life, is glossed over. Some have faith there is a higher purpose and if they have strong faith

[kelpzoidzl]

....If they have faith, they aspire to a greater existence beyond the prison house.

Those claiming religious practice, defeat their own purpose, by allowing animality to continue to rule their lives.

[Katie Higgins]

That is a "Dave-ism " statement !!

This internet venue has its draw backs, but serves a meaningful purpose for those who seek " realism " - in that we non-perfect worldly beings can uphold and protect the true teachings in any and all of the 10 worlds!!

You, Dave, are simply expressing your own weakness with regard to your comfort level and seeking to " control " what you don't understand .

Can't dismiss how your commentary is tainted with " original enlightenment " thinking -- that YOU have the capacity to make such pronouncements is sooooo Tendai !!

~Katie

[Chas.]

While David Cole is a cornucopia of psycho-babble-Buddhism, at least he has been rendered somewhat harmless by being exposed for what he intends: he's not selling a new way of practicing Nembutsu, David's just selling himself as a new Yamazaki go-between the warring Buddhists.

Katie, however, and her minions like Noel are in competition with the eternal Buddha, Myoho-Renge, and would replace the entity with her statues of dubious manufacture, of a human being once-alive, but now long dead. This is the problem of converting the charisma of a living person into idolatry: you are worshiping someones's dead body, because that is what that impermanent form looks like now. Bones.

The Entity of the Mystic Law is not impermanent and takes the form of the true aspect of all phenomena (not having the aspect of any temporal form), not an impermanent husk, which Nichiren Daishonin calls "an impure, stinking body":

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/15#para-16

... The Buddha states: “Have no fear of mad elephants. What you
... should fear are evil friends! Why? Because a mad elephant
... can only destroy your body; it cannot destroy your mind.
... But an evil friend can destroy both body and mind. A mad
... elephant can destroy only a single body, but an evil friend
... can destroy countless bodies and countless minds. A mad
... elephant merely destroys an IMPURE, STINKING BODY, but an
... evil friend can destroy both pure body and pure mind. A mad
... elephant can destroy the physical body, but an evil friend
... destroys the Dharma body. Even if you are killed by a mad
... elephant, you will not fall into the three evil paths. But
... if you are killed by an evil friend, you are certain to
... fall into them. A mad elephant is merely an enemy of your
... body, but an evil friend is an enemy of the good Law.”12
... Therefore, even more than venomous serpents or malevolent
... demons, one should fear the evil friends who follow Kōbō,
... Shan-tao, and Hōnen. This is just a brief clarification of
... the error of holding distorted views.

That physical form you are so arousedly caressing in your four inch statue when alive was "an impure, stinking body," and is now, rubble. So is your mentor in Nembutsu, Hōnen, while he suffers endlessly in Avichi hell.

The eternal Buddha, whose actual name is Myoho-Renge, according to Nichiren Daishonin in the Gosho "The Entity of the Mystic Law", is NOTHING LIKE THAT, AND COULD NOT BE MORE DIFFERENT FROM THAT.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

The manifest body of Shakyamuni of the 16th Chapter of the Lotus Sutra is the " body" the Buddhas disciples developed faith in - to the extent that they could BELIEVE the Buddhas words when he preached the Lotus Sutra?

Which of the Buddha's three bodies is " insignificant ", Chas? The Buddha did not say that his appearance of attaining enlightenment under the bodhi tree was an error- just expedient means necessary to prepare his disciples for his highest teaching !

You are confused Chas- why else would you disparage any of the Buddhas 3 bodies - and worse , disparage Nichiren and his followers who kept images of Shakyamuni ? You assume we do not comprehend the significance of the dharma body and the oneness of Shakyamuni and the Lotus Sutra -- or rather you are totally ignorant of the true teachings because you have drunk the poison of Ikeda-ism ‼️

~Katie

[kelpzoidzl]

Those who slander others who embrace the Lotus Sutra and recite the Daimoku, even those who recite the Lotus Sutra in their heart, while pretending to be a believer themselves, are in the prison of the animal realm. With their mind they concoct distinctions, where they set themselves apart from other believers, practitioners and sects.

For instance, a person critical of the policies, politics or directions of the SGI, or any of the other Nichiren sects, even for good reason and claim anyone following these sects will all fall into hell, are displaying a disregard of the power of the Lotus Sutra and the power of the daimoku. Because they have weak faith and are adhering to false ideas in their mind, not recognizing, the power of faith and practice, is far greater, then errors people may commit in their ideas or dogma, they end up slandering other believers. It's a way if thinkng themselves greater by adhering to their petty distinctions of dogma and erroneous ideas and diminishing the power of other's recitation of the Daimoku.

Nichiren often expressed how ones practice and prayers, overide whatever errors or stupidity they may have personally.

If a sect leaders, priests, laypeople or independent laypeople, criticize other leaders, priests, laypeople or independent laypeople---based on petty distinctions---they are viewing the power of practice as secondary to dogma distinctions or political motives.

One can ultimately think many believers are just plain stupid and ignorant, but still ackniwledge their sincere practice.

Seeing others as stupid and ignorant, is quite correct. People are very much like lowly, deranged animals, with only a slim understandng of Buddhism, yet because they may practice sincerely, even in their hearts only, they still are respectworthy as true followers of this Buddhism.

What those who slander other followers of the Lotus Sutra and Nichren, should realze, is that that slander, is equal to what Nichiren alwats warned about, "placing other sutras above the Lotus Sutra." In these cases it is their egotistical and shallow thinking, or outright spiritual arrogance, that us theur own false sutra they pkace above the Lotus Sutra.

Shallow and arrogant ideas themselves, are human traits but it is the slander of other believers and placing their own distinctions above the faith and practice of others---the same as placing another Sutra anove the Lotus Sutra---that needs to be corrected.

It should be obvious that the schisms within Nichiren Sects is pathetic and contrary to everything Nichiren taught.

There is a big difference between "guidance in faith," a "senior believer" may give another personally, in order to encourage them to practice harder and the teaching of dogma distinctions that separate themselves from believers of other Nichiren sects. It is unfortunate there is even such a thing as "different" opposing Nichiren sects. There is only one sangha of the Lotus Sutra buddhism and Nichirens followers, whether people are in a sct or independent, but instead, the opposing sects argue and slander other believers, effectively destroying Nichiren's Buddhism and the Lotus Sutra.

Arbn is only a pathetic reflection of this, where people spam the same writings of Nichiren back and forth, as if proving their point. This just makes Nichiren Buddhism look insane and defines it as a disgrace.

Guidance in practice, has NOTHNG to do with opposing dogma distinctions or sectarian nonsense. It has everything to do with the historical schisms.

Humpty Dumpty had already broken into many pieces hundreds of years ago. To add insult to injury, each shard claims they are right and use shallow distinctions to state their case, which in essense searates them from the real Sangha,

Breaking unity already happened, and eventually each break off sect, claimed UNITY with their ideas is best---they are only true sect! Even though they are in reality claiming how important THEIR Itai Doshin is, they have already separated themselves from others, contrary to Nichiren's teaching. This is just the same as reliving the animal realms, endlessly.

All the animality is in full control. For instance, whether SGI, N Shoshu, N Shu, Kempon Hokke or later break away groups, they all still stress Unity and folliowing the leader's view. This is pathetic.

There are incredible paradoxes in play here, but real Buddhism must still be sorted out in this age.

Nichiren himself was a common mortal. He said it himself many times. Gautama Buddha too was a common mortal. These were imperfect people. The authors of the Lotus Sutra, were also common mortals. What these people awakened too however, was not "common," but very rare. These were actual awakenings by people to a deeper reality then te surface.

It does no good anymore to hide these realities from the world if anyone would expect a religious renaissance, during this time where the masses of people are controlled by atheists in governments who use religions against each other, to hold secular power.

Nichiren often mentioned "Dragons," in analogies, such as how "Dragons," make it rain, etc. Anyone who thinks he was taking about real, literal Dragons has a screw loose. He often used mythology to make his points. At the same time, the Lotus Sutra uses many mythical statements, based in an ancient Hindu mythology. Most all the characters inscribed on the Gohonzon, are mythical creatures representing lifestates, revolving around the axis of tte earth and the constellations seen in movement in the sky.

The constellation Draco (dragon) revolving around the North Star, along with the Seven Sages as stars in the Big Dipper, also revolving around the North Star has since ancient Hinduism, was fundamental to the mythological backdrop of the Lotus Sutra, with the Great Stupa as the axis. The formost of the Seven Sages of Hinduism was in fact, Visistacarita, known in the Lotus Sutra as the "Leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth."

What needs to be understood today, for Buddhism to soread, is that "Buddhist experience," coming from correct Buddhist practice of meditation and prayer, is the origin of the Lotus Sutra and anyone can realize what Buddhahood or the "Eternal Buddha," means. Gautama Buddha did not teach the Lotus Sutra, but the enlightenment of all Buddhas is the same. Putting enlightement into words, when even the vocabulary to do so, does not exist, is beyond regular human ability, much less stating it in a way that can be understood by most prople. Even when stated perfectly it always will fall short by a milion miles. Nichiren had said,"I have heard, that the Lotus Sutra was originally infinitely longer (then the 27 or 28 chapters). "

People tend to spend their time making negative prayers and don't realize they are doing it. Every thought and word is their "Sutra." With those negative prayers, they warp the real Buddhism and cannibalize it,

[kelpzoidzl]

Chas, your comment is idiotic. Truth is, no one reads your posts. You spam and spam. Talk about "harmless." Your spam is idiotic. Since no one reads it but the handful of people reading here, you are "harmless." 'It only hurts yourself.

Katie responding to you like a machine, also only hurts herself. It is beyond foolish.

When I post here occasionally it is just a handful of people I am writing to. I know no one else reads it. It is your delusion. Likewise Mark on his blog actually thinks all those thousands of world wide hits he touts, are just bots and internet spiders. Not living people. Even a nearly blank website given time, will show those large numbers of hits from bots and spiders gathering user data. No one reads him either, but a handfull. It's a sad delusion. Both you and Mark chant the daimoku I hope, so perhaos some day you might figure it out. In the meantime, hope that no one accidentally stumbke onto srbn and get a negative view of Nichiren Daisjonin or Buddhism. Between your spam hobby and Marks silliness and poor John Ayres, you all give Buddhism a bad name.

Very sad.

[Katie Higgins]

Sorry, Dave, but your "sermon" cannot be viewed as anything but the arrogance you possess based on incorrect faith--You are not describing Nichiren's own behavior and teachings on "refuting slander". You are simply pontificating here-- expressing your belief in your own superior "reasoning".

Fine to express your opinion, Dave, NOT okay to claim you are expressing Nichiren's teachings!

~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Little longer than a typical Trump tweet, but no less authoritarian :-0

Omniscience is NOT attainable-- and NO you don't know who is reading here, or what the impact is of viewing the interactions/exchanges that are published here.

The only view one needs of Nichiren's Buddhism is the ONE that is formed from personal effort to follow Nichiren-- and that is hardly what you are about Dave!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Nichiren's followers were one step away from being Tendai, prior to 1222 they WOULD BE Tendai. Nichiren Daishonin himself WAS Tendai, after being Nembutsu.

The traditions of the Middle Day of the Law they were brought up in involved statue worshiping. That was the norm.

It took a long time for the Gohonzon to emerge from his life, until then there was no "supreme object of devotion in all of Jambudvipa," only statues carved by who-knows-who-and-what-their-life-condition-was? Do you know who created the form you worship so lovingly? What was their practice? Zen? Nembutsu? 70% of modern Japanese are attached to a Nembutsu temple, so that is the most likely answer. Most of the Japanese Buddhists I know from work are in Nembutsu families and they suffer greatly from it.

Shame on you for propagating that line of crap.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

When I expose you again for what you are, conflating statue worshipers with the Kosen Rufu movement and campaigning to be the next Yamazaki, it is a public service, like a warning label on toxic waste, and not akin to speaking ill of SGI members or common mortals on the street going about their business.

Take a look at the quotes I posted, particularly the ones at the end, and take heed of them, for once:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/uW7dASM3NC4/45ei6RHzBgAJ

There are always collateral damages to any action you take, simply for the purpose of rendering inaction laudable (that would summarize your arguments, after Nichiren's take in the last of those quotes above.)

Like Immanuel Kant's Deontology, I do the right thing, and let the devilish function twist what I do in whichever way it pleases Tenji-Ma.

I do this, because the Lotus Sutra, Nichiren Daishonin and Sensei make it clear that acting to refute distortions of Buddhism (and placing statues of ANYONE in front of the Gohonzon is right up there at the zenith, the heights, of slander,) is the immediate task required of any follower of Nichiren Daishonin who actually intends to attain the way, and that, David Yamazaki Cole, is what I am.

I do not listen to those that mealy mouth away the force of his admonitions, I take Nichiren Daishonin at his exact word.

Y'all may be offended, others may shake their heads and tut-tut, but to me that is the applause from the Buddhas in the ten directions.

-Chas.

[Dennis G]

Chas makes what I consider to be very good points.
I too was taught that the life state of the person making anything, and especially and object of worship, is paramount to the relationship and "effect" one gets from it.
Perfectly stands to reason. A simple example of a meal thrown together by someone in a low life state, compared to one lovingly prepared by someone in a high life state is a completely different experience for the diner.
In this country there are thousands of statues of Shakyamuni in a plethora of poses and sizes. Most made and sold by companies for profit. Certainly not by someone in the Buddha state. There are some beautiful statues but there are also some incredibly ugly ones. Almost all of the ugly ones tend to be newer ones though. Some of the expressions on Shakyamuni's face make it appear as though he is highly constipated or on some sort of recreational drug.
Mind you, there is a temple newly opened that a lot of people were raving about, just down the road from where I live and that has pictures of Walt Disney characters etched into the glass in the main building.
So to get the idea that all statues of Shakyamuni are beautiful, I can assure you is wrong.
The life state of whoever inscribes the Gohonzon is also therefore of critical importance.

[Noel]

Shakyamuni Buddha statue represents Buddha nature to many people

[Dennis G]

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 15:44:58 UTC+7, Noel wrote:
> Shakyamuni Buddha statue represents Buddha nature to many people

Noel, if you saw a lot of the same statues, images etc... that I see here, you'd be hard pressed to get Buddha nature out of them, I can assure you. I am not saying that there are not some beautiful ones, there are, but there are also some right dodgey looking ones too!

Just touching (being the operative word) on what Chas posted about statues being caressed. Here no one, other than monks is normally allowed to even touch a Buddha statue. It is also very bad manners to touch anyone on the top of the head as it is thought that this is closer (as in higher) to the Buddha. Only a royal man (the current king, although he was doing this for a few years whilst his father, the deceased king was unable to) can change the tunic on the emerald Buddha which is in the Grand Palace. Anyone can go to see it at certain times, but the tunic changing ceremony, which is done for each season, summer, winter etc.. can only be done by him.
The only image in a Buddhist household, or business that can be put near to the Buddha is that of either a very renowned monk or of the king and even they must be lower than the Buddha, not the same height and certainly never ever higher.
Is your statue placed high enough?
I am just trying to illustrate that throughout the world that Buddhism spread into and undoubtedly picked up local customs etc.. there are a plethora of differing views.

Not sure if you or Katie have had any experience of Therevadan Buddhism, but maybe it's something you should consider looking into. It might tick a lot of your boxes.

[Noel]

You should ask people personally what the Buddhas image means to them

I am not saying that there are not some beautiful ones, there are, but there are also some right dodgey looking ones too!

Just like some Gohonzons...Nichikans Gohonzon that you pray to

> The only image in a Buddhist household, or business that can be put near to the Buddha is that of either a very renowned monk or of the king and even they must be lower than the Buddha, not the same height and certainly never ever higher.
> Is your statue placed high enough?

No matter how low I placed it Dennis it would always be higher than someone like you who set fire to the Buddha's body in the form of the Gohonzon

Not sure if you or Katie have had any experience of Therevadan Buddhism, but maybe it's something you should consider looking into. It might tick a lot of your boxes.

Over 40 years to late I was a Youth in Asia. I have traveled many times through out Indonesia, Malaysia Thailand,India and Sri lanka latter years Japan as they are close neighbors to Australia so yes I am familiar with Therevadan tradition. Didn't see any right dodgy looking ones in all that time like I've seen of the Buddha impersonators in the SGI

[Dennis G]

Ha ha. I can send you some pictures of you want?
What places in Thailand did you visit?

[Chas.]

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 1:31:31 AM UTC-7, Noel wrote:
> The Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha is myoho renge kyo. When are you going to get that through your thick head Chas

That's not news. So are Nichiren Daishonin, you and myself. The common mortal is the true Buddha, according to Nichiren Daishonin, and if you respond by challenging that Gosho, I can show you many others saying the same thing, I dare you to!

The actual name of the eternal Buddha is only one of those: "Myoho-Renge." I also challenge you to the declare "The Entity of the Mystic Law" Gosho letter as fake!

And Shakyamuni disentangled himself from your posited sole ownership of that entity, out of his own mouth, by naming himself the 16th grandson of the eternal Buddha, which he did not name, because that was Nichiren Daishonin's purview. We all have our job and Shakyamuni performed his, and that was NOT TO IDENTIFY HIMSELF, BUT ANOTHER anonymously as the eternal Buddha, and no, Katie, that is also not Nichiren Daishonin or Sensei, but with the actual name of "Myoho-Renge."

Shakyamuni identifies his grandfather as the eternal Buddha:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-36

I hope you can grasp this essential point as to why the one mandala of the Gohonzon reflects our common true self, when we chant the the one mantra of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which causes us all to manifest our Buddhahood, by simply calling out our one true shared name.

Our dependent origination implies how closely we all truly are to each other, and why it would be wise to stop slandering the Law and pouring the Exxon Valdez crude into our shared life together.

-Chas.

[Noel]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 12:17:26 AM UTC+10, Dennis G wrote:
> Ha ha. I can send you some pictures of you want?
> What places in Thailand did you visit?

Don't bother with your pictures poking fun at Shakyamuni's statues because none of them would even compare to your wanton act of destruction of Nichirens Gohonzons that you claim was a righteous ceremonial act.But in reality it was more like a sacrificial offering to your master the Devil King of the Sixth Heaven

Which Nichiren Gohonzon was it that you gave as aburnt offering Dennis. Can you send me a pictures of what they looked like before you turned it into a pile of smoldering ashes

"In Buddhist mythology, he is the king of devils, who dwells in the highest or the sixth heaven of the world of desire. He is also named Freely Enjoying Things Conjured by Others, the king who makes free use of the fruits of others' efforts for his own pleasure. Served by innumerable minions, he obstructs Buddhist practice and delights in sapping the life force of other beings. Works to obstruct Buddhist practice and drain our life force.
He is the manifestation of fundamental darkness inherent in life.

The three Obstacles and Four Devils confront us at a specific point in time - usually when we are about to grow in our lives and move forward, and they may lead us to stop practising.
Flipping the coin entirely, these hindrances enable us to see a weakness in our lives so that we can chant and become stronger in that area, so long as we are neither influenced nor frightened by them.
The Daishonin advises us to rejoice when Fundamental Darkness arises, and to take these obstacles and devils as confirmation that we are practising the true Law correctly.

Some quotes from the Gosho:
[T]he Devil of the Sixth Heaven, scheming to prevent the people of this world from going to the pure lands elsewhere, seizes every opportunity to carry out his perverse acts.
It appears that his scheming is ultimately intended to prevent the Buddha from expounding the Lotus Sutra. The reason is that the nature of this devil king is to rejoice at those who create the karma of the three evil paths and to grieve at those who form the karma of the three good paths. He does not lament so greatly over those who form the karma of the three good paths, but he sorrows indeed at those who aspire to the three vehicles. Again, he may not sorrow that much over those who seek to attain the three vehicles, but he grieves bitterly at those who form the karma to become Buddhas, and avails himself of every opportunity to obstruct them. He knows that those who hear even a single sentence or phrase of the Lotus Sutra will attain Buddhahood without fail, and, exceedingly distressed by this, contrives various plots and restrains and persecutes believers, in an attempt to make them abandon their faith.
(From “The Four Debts of Gratitude”)

Arouse strong faith, and do not heed what they say. It is the way of the great devil to assume the form of a venerable monk or to take possession of one’s father, mother, or brother in order to obstruct happiness in one’s next life. Whatever they may say, however cleverly they may try to deceive you into discarding the Lotus Sutra, do not assent to it.
(From “Encouragement to a sick person”)

When an ordinary person of the latter age is ready to attain Buddhahood, […] this devil is greatly surprised. He says to himself, “This is most vexing. If I allow this person to remain in my domain, he not only will free himself from the sufferings of birth and death, but will lead others to enlightenment as well. Moreover, he will take over my realm and change it into a pure land. What shall I do?” The devil king then summons all his underlings […] and tells them: “Each of you now go and harass that votary, according to your respective skills. If you should fail to make him abandon his Buddhist practice, then enter into the minds of his disciples, lay supporters, and the people of his land and thus try to persuade or threaten him. If these attempts are also unsuccessful, I myself will go down and possess the mind and body of his sovereign to persecute that votary. Together, how can we fail to prevent him from attaining Buddhahood?”
(From “Letter to Misawa”)

[Dennis G]

Not poking fun Noel, simply illustrating that the life condition of whoever makes an object of worship is critical. That's why the Gohonzon is the true object of worship, not a Walmart statue of Shakyamuni.
If I receive retribution for ceremoniously burning a print shop Gohonzon, then so will Katie for burning her Nichikan Gohonzon. I am not proud of burning it, as you seem to want to repeatedly claim that I am, but if you read Eagle Peak and what Mark has to say then you will find that that is what happens to all surrendered Gohonzon anyway as the correct procedure to return them to the source. I wonder what happened to the one you lost?
Have you got any Shakyamuni statutes in your garden that are repeatedly exposed to the elements?
If you have feel in love with Shakyamuni's image then good luck to you, but you did think about the source of your statue. Was it even made by a Buddhist of any type, what life condition was the manufacturer in when they made it? I think you can be pretty sure it wasn't Buddhahood.

[Noel]

It was taken back by SGI leaders and they didn't offer to give me back the money I paid for it which would of been the right thing to do

Your in no position to have any consideration or make comments of the life condition of those that make paintings of graven images of Shakyamuni Buddha when you destroyed the true object of devotion that was created by Nichiren. You couldn't of careless about the Life Condition of one who manifested the highest state of Buddhahood when they inscribed the Gohonzon

That's you Dennis the nut in the nutshell

[Dennis G]

Interesting how you like to try and make yourself feel better by digging at me, Noel.
Anyway, the true object of worship is the Gohonzon, not images, statues etc of Shakyamuni.

[Noel]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:26:18 PM UTC+10, Dennis G wrote:
> Interesting how you like to try and make yourself feel better by digging at me, Noel.
> Anyway, the true object of worship is the Gohonzon, not images, statues etc of Shakyamuni.

I'm showing you for what you are so you can see yourself.

Those images of Shakyamuni mean different things to different people just like about anything else in life.

I see the image of Shakyamuni in diffent ways. There is the eternal Shakyamuni Buddha and the historical Shakyamuni Buddha. One that is eternally never changing and the other eternally ever changing. The historical Shakyamuni Buddha was highly cultivated unlike SGI Buddha impersonators who like to think that they are equally the same as the Lord Shakyamuni Buddha with their disgraceful behavior...it just shows how deluded you-they are.

Sure everyone has a Buddha nature that makes us equal to the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha and the Historical Shakyamuni Buddha in that sense however the difference is as great as heaven and earth in the duration in which we manifest the quality of Buddha-hood in our life, that's why Nichiren was always pointing to the historical Shakyamuni Buddha who manifested the 3 bodied Tathagatta Thus Come One Nam(u) Myoho renge Kyo (Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha) in his life and as Nichiren also did in his life

Putting Ikeda with all his shortfalls on a pedestal at the expense of Nichiren and Shakyamuni is extreme arrogance at its zennith such is the deplorable state that your SGI-ORG has fallen into

[Dennis G]

Hi Noel,

Your methods of attempting to enlighten me are intriguing.

The images of Shakyamuni mean different things to different people, sure, I agree with you there, however any relationship one seeks with an object of worship is a twofold relationship - it works both ways. Praying to a statue of Shakyamuni that has been mass produced by bodge it and scarper incorporated, with little if no concern for it's recipient and designed/produced by people in the lower world states of hunger or animality etc.. for example, will gleen the same relationship or effect on the person praying towards it as a Gohonzon.

There is a BIG difference between someone pointing towards Shakyamuni and having deep respect towards him for the state of life he attained - and pointing towards Shakyamuni and worshiping him for having attained it.

So, your last sentence implies that members of the SGI put President Ikeda before Nichiren and Shakyamuni. Maybe the driving force behind you typing that is from the same core as the above? Your want to have some idol/god type human form to worship, has driven the process of moving the focus of this want from Nichiren to Shakyamuni, anyone who is therefore a thoroughly respected leader of a worldwide organisation that isn't the object of your idol/god desire is therefore unworthy.
There is a BIG difference between someone having a mentor and idol worship.
The mentor is pointing the way, he is not professing to be the culmination of the way. Due to our inherited ingrained personality obsession, there will be some people who have the predisposition to turn a mentor (any mentor) into an idolic type character, but this is not the aim or fault of the mentor. It's a learning process for the student/disciple.

[Dennis G]

Sorry, Missed a critical word out!! for example, will NOT gleen the same relationship or effect on the person praying towards it as a Gohonzon.

[Noel]

Regardless of who made what if our life force is strong we can transform any weaknesses its the same with people. What is important is the message behind the words as the words are vehicles for the meaning. The same for Shakyamunis graven images. For most people Buddhist statues gives a feeling of mystery, beauty, deep abiding calm,relief, serenity the quintessence of life like what is described in the Lotus Sutra as the Eternal Buddha

Shakyamuni the man that was in touch with his Buddha nature and has given hope to billions throughout the millenniums was such a person that I bow to with deep respect

The world-honored one, of great authority and virtue,
in order to save living beings
spent immeasurable millions of years
and at last succeeded in becoming a buddha.
All your vows have now been fulfilled—
it is well—no fortune could be greater!
The world-honored one is very rarely met with;
having taken his seat, ten small kalpas pass.
His body and his hands and feet
rest in stillness, never moving,
his mind constantly calm and placid,
never in turmoil or disorder.
In the end he attains eternal tranquility and extinction,
resting in the Law of no outflows.
Now as we observe the world-honored one
in tranquility, having completed the Buddha way,
we gain excellent benefits
and praise and congratulate him with great joy.
Living beings undergo constant suffering and anguish,
benighted, without teacher or guide,
not realizing there is a way to end suffering,
not knowing how to seek emancipation.
Through the long night increasingly they follow evil paths,
reducing the multitude of heavenly beings;
from darkness they enter into darkness,
to the end never hearing a Buddha's name.
But now the Buddha has attained the unexcelled,
the tranquility of the Law of no outflows.
We and the heavenly and human beings
hereby obtain the greatest benefit.
For this reason all of us bow our heads,
dedicate our lives to the one of unexcelled honor.

Parable of the Phantom City



One of the last large SGI community meetings I attended was on Nichirens anniversary of his death arrond 3 years ago. There wasn't even a mention of him or Shakyamuni just the Glorious Soka Gakkai and 3 presidents mainly Ikeda blah blah blah. This was so typical of their meetings that I found so dry, dreary and boring as their was no substance Nichirens teachings completely gutted of what they use to be like before and shortly after the split. The meetings became a desolate place an abomination orchestrated by the Soka Gakkai Hierarchy

[Chas.]

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 5:56:47 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

[snip]

> You and Chas are propagating the notion that IKEDA is a "Buddha"-- which is an outrageous disregard of the Lotus Sutra-- maybe this will be revealed in the current exhibition the SGI is making of the Buddha's highest teaching ?
>
> No intermediaries required, Dennis-- I know several former SGI members who have been "influenced" by Chas' displays of "effects" of associating in any way with the SGI or its slanderous mentor/disciple teaching ! Some folks are opening their eyes to the reality of the detrimental effects on the "minds" of Ikeda-bots.
>
> ~Katie

Of course Sensei is a Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin declared that the common mortal is the true Buddha. The fact that you've ignored that so that you and your followers like Noel can continue your idolatry and the sexual connection to statues of people is a kind of fawning self-denigration that the world can well do without. That stuff is history, and humanity has evolved beyond that historical kind of idol worship.

You will say that we worship Sensei, but of course there is no attractiveness there to speak, and really has never been: it is all about heart with Sensei and the SGI.

We are comrades in a life and death struggle with the fundamental darkness, and it doesn't get much more fundamentally ignorant than you, Katie: placing statues in front of the Gohonzon that Nichiren Daishonin calls "the supreme object of devotion in all of Jambudvipa." Supreme from Nichiren Daishonin means as a mountain is compared to a pebble.

Speaking of pebbles, the actual proof of the corruption produced by distorting Nichiren Daishonin's practice into chanting to statues, or to a stolen Gohonzon received from the traitorous and murderous priests at Nichiren Shu, is the rapidity with which Noel has plummeted into your hell and become your minion from chanting to that stolen Gohonzon of his.

Only a couple of weeks ago (April 27th), Noel was railing against you and quoting me at length:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/5o7Glj5igQA/g_Uv4oqIBAAJ

But I had the temerity to point out that chanting to stolen Gohonzon was not a cause for enlightenment, or anything but hellishness, and immediately he became your minion simply to prove Nikko Shonin's very point:

"a pebble, placed just outside the cone of Mt. Fuji, will eventually find its way to the bottom."

And Iain was plotting against the SGI, while he was still inside and collecting evidence for his exit: he even pretended for some time after coming here that he was an SGI member, even while intending to make his exit on January 1st. So when he quotes me as his reason, that lie is revealed by his own postings, the evidence is laid out here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/TJomrk2H5XE/gCw9O2YxBQAJ

Finally, by getting a vote of no confidence from former SGI members also retrieving stolen Gohonzon from Nichiren Shu sources, well, I can only quote President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's comments about the big banks he was regulating: "I welcome their hatred." And frankly, how else could they feel who have slid like a pebble into the arms of the Shinto statue worshipers of Nichiren Shu.

Take a look at my shield quotes from Nichiren Daishonin that I posted, particularly the ones at the end, and take heed of them, for once:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/uW7dASM3NC4/45ei6RHzBgAJ

There are always collateral damages to any action you take, simply for the purpose of rendering inaction laudable by the enemies of the Kosen Rufu movement.

Like Immanuel Kant's Deontology, I do the right thing, and let the devilish function twist what I do in whichever way it pleases Tenji-Ma.

I do this, because the Lotus Sutra, Nichiren Daishonin and Sensei make it clear that acting to refute distortions of Buddhism (and placing statues of ANYONE in front of the Gohonzon is right up there at the zenith, the heights, of slander of the Law,) is the immediate task required of any follower of Nichiren Daishonin who actually intends to attain the way, and that, Katie Higgins and her new Iain minion, Noel, is exactly what I am.

[Dennis G]

>
> One of the last large SGI community meetings I attended was on Nichirens anniversary of his death arrond 3 years ago. There wasn't even a mention of him or Shakyamuni just the Glorious Soka Gakkai and 3 presidents mainly Ikeda blah blah blah. This was so typical of their meetings that I found so dry, dreary and boring as their was no substance Nichirens teachings completely gutted of what they use to be like before and shortly after the split. The meetings became a desolate place an abomination orchestrated by the Soka Gakkai Hierarchy

Hi Noel,
I can only comment on this from my own perspective, which is if this was the case, then I think that it is wrong.
This is the type of thing, that if happens, then should be challenged by the members. Not sure if you challenged it?
I can't say that I've experienced this myself, but of course I can't say that you didn't either.
As I mentioned in an previous post, I have experienced a few members who have let their reverence for President Ikeda grown into what I would consider idol worship, the same type of worship that Chas (and I suppose myself to a certain degree) have leveled at Katie and yourself related to Shakyamuni statues etc.. But I would say from my UK days, that when we (a few other members and myself) challenged this at at local level, our grievances were heard and our next few meetings were attended by the then UK leader, Robert Samuels. There was a toning down from these few members then.

I think this is probably something that the SGI will always need to deal with and be aware of, members developing themselves and their faith through a mentor disciple relationship and this development going of course towards idol worshiping.
A quote from the guy who introduced me to SGI at that time comes to mind when thinking about this as I think it's inference is right.... "you don't change a disorderly house by going outside and shouting through the letterbox"

[Noel]

Just focus on Gosho and Lotus Sutra, chant Namu myoho Renge Kyo with a copy of an authentic 10 world Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon and see if it makes a difference Dennis. This is what it really all gets down to. "The proof is in the pudding" so to speak

[kelpzoidzl]

The Sutra often mentions how the Arhats were able to put an end to "Outflows." The Sutra also explains, that "even without illiminating "outflows," faith in the Lotus Sutra, enable common mortals to achieve complete enlightenment.

The Daishonin uses the principle of the "Four Tyoes of Vessels," to illustrate a "leaky" vessel. "Leaky" refers to Outflows.

The most danaging outflow now, is seen in arguing Nichiren believers. Slandering other believers, using dogma and sect thinking, is the "outflow," or "leaking," that can invaldate one's practice. No matter how one thinks their sect is superior or their ideas are superior, such as with the idiotic ARBN arguing, this is in fact the "leaking," of faith. Leaking means negative prayer, reverse of faith. It is pure animality. One leaks their way into a repeating animal future. Ths is why Nichiren said his disciples should be the last to slander each other. Nichiren was always trying to plug the leaks.

Leaky vessel people need to stop leaking.

[Katie Higgins]

Dave says: >>" Leaky vessel people need to stop leaking."<<

Can't fail to notice Dave's cry, "Leaky vessel people need to stop leaking. ", for its striking similarity to the outcries of Trump and his minions in response to public disclosure, "leaks" of Trump's nefarious behavior!!

I can't help but notice Dave's "obstructionist" stance here-- especially since this harangue follows Noel's very straight forward comment on the progress happening here with regard to "debates" focused on the true teachings of Nichiren.

Noel said:..>>"Just focus on Gosho and Lotus Sutra, chant Namu myoho Renge Kyo with a copy of an authentic 10 world Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon and see if it makes a difference Dennis. This is what it really all gets down to. "The proof is in the pudding" so to speak <<"

Dave's use of the Gosho and Sutra suggest he has the inside track on what's happening here? Yet, to many others the debates are actually in accord with Nichiren's own example of renting error and calling out heretical "sects" to support their views with "Sutra in hand".

In any case, this is an unmoderated, open forum-- while is often times difficult to engage in formal debate here, the purpose is clear enough: establishing what is correct in terms of Nichiren's teachings-- THIS is the practice of Nichiren's followers--

So, Dave can opt to engage in the debate, but his hovering around waiting for the opportunity to "shut down" the discussion by claiming claiming "foul" on the part of the participants is simply a revelation of his own level of discomfort with the expression of truth coming from participants who are sincerely devoted to practicing as Nichiren taught!

~Katie

[Dennis G]

Blimey, some of you Americans must still be right hacked off with Mr. Trump if he is even making it onto a Buddhist forum!

Although there is quite a bit of charge behind the exchanging of views on here, I actually think that sparks people to dig deeper to find ways to express their own views. It has certainly made me think about a few things that I had never thought about before and sure I have learnt some important things too and I would include in that not least of all things about myself.

I suppose from time to time it does can get a bit heated and I can understand what Dave is saying, however, I find it very interesting and useful. If everyone was like candy to one another, then I would think at least some of the dynamics would disappear.

[Katie Higgins]

" The Lotus Sutra states,"[The doctrines that they preach...] will never be contrary to the true reality " T'ien-t'ai commented on this saying that " no worldly affairs of life or work are ever contrary to the true reality." A person of wisdom is not one who practices Buddhism apart from worldly affairs but, rather , one who thoroughly understands the principles by which the world is governed." -Nichiren ( "The Kalpa of Decrease")

Trump , who is the spitting image of Ikeda is the leader of the most powerful country in the free world - you may want to consider the implications of Trump's appearance and influence as it certainly has worldly significance ‼️

~ Katie

[Dennis G]

Come on Katie, The only thing that President Trump and President Ikeda have in common is the word "President". Even Andy Warhol on acid could not make these two look the same!

[Chas.]

Actually, Katie, it is you, the endless spouter of unsubstantiated lies, that most closely resembles Trump, or Kellyanne Conway. She's the kind of twister of the truth into a lie, that you are.

How you make up these crap stories of yours. Sensei has not retired to his own island or anything, still lives in the same house. He has not spent a dime of the SGI's money, except on the Buddhist centers around the world that we practice in, and which the youth depend on for their start.

The vast majority of the leadership of the SGI is voluntary. We have one paid staffer that I know of for our zone. In L.A., where the SGI-USA has its HQ, almost all of the people who run the place are volunteers, except for people who must be paid employees to keep the doors open as a non-profit under and complying with all of the U.S. Government regulations which by law we must comply with.

You just make up these lies and get away with it. If we had malfeasance in the operations of our non-profit, do you not think we would be called into court by a judge? We have powerful enemies enough to make it happen.

Adin Strauss is. among other things, a first rate corporate accountant, and has made sure that we comply with all standard accounting practices and are continually operating in accordance with the law.

If you have a specific case against us, make it! I made the case against your Nichiren Shu priests in regards to their instigation of the Asian Holocaust in China during the Pacific War, and there were more history books telling the same story than I could track, I ended up quoting five different histories as the Nichiren Shu factions inside the Japanese military whipped up war fervor and hatred of the Chinese, while the Nichiren Shu priests acted as agents provocateur to create incidents to fill the press with exaggerated (kind of like the way you gin up this crap about the SGI) stories to whip the public into war fever.

How many history books or papers did I find telling a different story? None.

All historians who discuss Nichiren Shu's role in the Asian Holocaust against China agree that the role was complicity in genocide.

So, show me your "evidence" and not stories in the Japanese Nembutsu press, either. They are famous liars.

-Chas.