Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 45)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From August 2006,
September 2006, February 2007, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- The Croft photo shows the tiny piece
of JFK's shirt exiting through his suit jacket.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Don't you love it when CT-Kooks jump directly
to a conclusion they WANT to be true?
Robert Croft's photograph corresponds to approximately Zapruder Film
frame #161. And JFK being shot as early as Z161 is preposterous
nonsense.
Here's the black-and-white version of the Croft photo:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt/fullcroft.jpg
There are white dots and specks throughout that image, most notably
the three such white specks near the back end of the limo, behind the
rear wheel.
Proving that the "speck" on JFK's back is merely a photo anomaly of
some kind is as easy as looking at a color version of the Croft
photograph (below).....
http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/8993.jpg
There are no white specks near the wheel, or on JFK's back. There are,
however, OTHER photo irregularities (many of them in fact) in that
color copy of the photo that are not present in the B&W copy. Which is
par for the "photographic" course I would surmise when it comes to
making copies of any photograph.
Many things in the processing of photos can cause blotches and
anomalies to occur. And the color version linked above also suffers
from obvious digital-type artifacts too.
Also -- If JFK had actually been hit as early as Z161, then why do we
see his hands in this very low position (in relation to the "pain
point" on his body) as late as Z225? Are we to actually believe that
JFK was hit by a bullet at Z161, and waited for 3.5 seconds to react
(plus the fact he STARTED a new wave AFTER being struck!)?? That's
just crazy talk. ....
http://users.skynet.be/mar/SBT/Images2/z225%204.jpg
This is the same argument I use with respect to the CTers who believe
JFK has been hit at around Z190 or Z200. If he'd been hit that early,
IMO his hands would not be where we see them (i.e., low and AWAY FROM
THE PAIN POINT) as late as Z225....especially when we factor in how
extremely rapidly JFK does jerk those arms upward toward the mouth and
throat areas of his body immediately after that Z225 frame.
http://users.skynet.be/mar/SBT/Images2/222-262%20full-small.gif
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CTer -- You wanted to know how JFK could have continued to hold his
hand up for 1.47 seconds after being stunned by the tiny bullet
striking him.
DVP -- Of course that's not what I said. Here again, you seem to think
that JFK would have BEGUN a new wave to the crowd on Elm Street after
having a high-velocity bullet go clean through his body.
Crazy, man.
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CTer -- The bullet that hit JFK in the throat was a TINY high-velocity
projectile. It didn't have the impact energy of a larger and heavier
bullet.
DVP -- LOL! I wonder why the assassins didn't just simply use water
pistols or a slingshot? Those things probably would have been just as
effective.
And the above unprovable CT dung re. "tiny" little bullets impacting
JFK's body is instance #3,446 of --- "A CT-Kook who thinks he can make
shit up out of thin air and expect to get away with it, even though
there's not a SCRAP of evidence to back up the garbage being spewed
forth by said kook".
And even though that CTer has surely got to know that his silly "White
Speck" theory is full of more holes than a Swiss Cheese factory, he
will probably continue to sponsor it for all its worth for many years
to come.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85290a6703a31221
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CTer -- Lee Oswald was shown a backyard photo, which he immediately
pronounced to be a fake.
DVP -- So? Would you have expected anything else from the murderer
himself, who was being shown a picture of himself WITH THE GUN HE USED
TO KILL THE PRESIDENT?
Every time somebody asked Oswald something directly related to the two
murders that he so obviously committed, he would lie. So why does his
"This Picture Is Fake" declaration surprise anyone?
He's not going to ADMIT that it is him in the photo, holding the very
rifle used in the assassination. Why would he be THAT stupid?
Plus, I find it kind of interesting that some CTers think that the DPD
was "in" on the after-the-shooting "cover-up" to frame Oswald -- but
at the same time, some of these CTers also feel that the DPD would
(for some reason) ADMIT to the public that Oswald said "that picture
is a fake".
IOW -- If the cops are bent on having no "conspiracy" loose ends, and
are trying to frame Oswald, why wouldn't they have lied and hid from
public view the fact that Oswald said anything at all about the
backyard photo being fake?
Were the cops TRYING to blow the conspiracy to bits by admitting
Oswald said such a thing? The DPD certainly didn't HAVE to relay that
info to anyone outside of their department. After all, many CTers DO,
indeed, believe that the cops hid some of Oswald's comments from the
public (or deliberately altered some of LHO's remarks while he was in
custody). So why not this one too?
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CTer -- {Oswald's declaration that the backyard photo he was shown was
a fake} startled the cops...who reasoned that if the fakery was so
obvious that Lee Oswald spotted it, they could not allow it to be seen
by a nosy public.
DVP -- Oh, was that the cops' "reasoning"? You now seem to know
everything the police were "reasoning" to themselves. Lovely. And
"LOL"-worthy too.
Or, just to put forth some alternate rational "reasoning" -- Perhaps
the cops figured that the man who probably murdered the President
wouldn't want to say "Yeah, that's me with the gun" when shown a legit
photograph of himself. Ya think?
Also -- Although I'm not entirely sure of the "timeline" of LHO's
numerous, non-stop lies....but if Oswald had been asked by the police
if he owned a rifle (and replied with the lie, "No", which we know he
did) BEFORE he was shown the backyard photo, then it doesn't take an
Einstein to figure out what Oswald's next likely move is going to be.
He's now stuck with his earlier "No, I don't own a rifle" lie, so he
obviously wouldn't want to fess up about the backyard imagery.
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CTer -- All we know is that they had TWO backyard photos. Which two
did they have?
DVP -- Who the heck cares? It's a total non-issue. The Backyard Photo
thing is only an "issue" to CT-Kooks...like yourself. And, just like
you said (and I agree), the photos do NOT tell us of Oswald's guilt on
11/22/63. And there was not a need in this world to fake any photos,
let alone a need to produce faked duplicate images of something
already in existence. The photos (all of them) are obviously genuine.
Only a kook thinks otherwise.
Why Lee Oswald had Marina take the pics in the first place is
information LHO took to his grave. We'll never know. And, of course,
in a Kook World, an "unknown" MUST = "Conspiracy". Right? Right.
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CTer -- A number of people have said they saw Banister with Oswald.
DVP -- Yeah, and a number of people said they saw Oswald look-alikes
at car dealerships, rifle ranges, in Mexico, and elsewhere too. But do
those observations make any sense...or pan out in the long run? Should
we take them ALL seriously?
In my opinion, the ONLY "connection" that Lee Oswald had with Guy
Banister is the "544 Camp St." address that Oswald had stamped on his
FPCC literature. (Which pretty much is what started Jim Garrison's
silly ball rolling too....just that address on some leaflets.)
But even THAT is not really a "connection". It just so happens that
544 Camp was around the corner from Banister's office.
Plus, let me add this......
Since we KNOW that Oswald's entire "New Orleans Chapter" of the FPCC
was a complete lie to begin with (i.e., the only member was Oswald,
and Oz lied on radio about his much-larger "membership", which he
refused to reveal)....it seems to me that Oswald's use of that address
(544 Camp) is very likely a lie as well.
Why wouldn't it be, in fact? Oz MADE UP his fake "chapter" of the FPCC
out of whole cloth; so he likely invented an "office" address for it
too.
Anyway, just some food for FPCC/544 Camp thought.
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CTer -- We have a rifle found on the 6th floor of dubious origin.
DVP -- Kook Logic once more. There's not a thing "dubious" about Rifle
#C2766 (except in a CTer's fertile mind, of course). The "Mauser" mis-
identification was fully explained by Deputy Boone and others.
"Mauser" = A generic-type term for "bolt-action rifle". And before it
was moved, CE139/C2766 looked like it might have been a Mauser to
Boone and Weitzman. Big deal. It wasn't. And no one can deny that
C2766, in general terms, and from a distance, resembles a
Mauser. .....
http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/mausercarcano.jpg
There's certainly not a shred of a doubt that Oswald owned Rifle
#C2766. Do conspiracy theorists think that the virtually-impoverished
Lee H. Oswald shelled out $21.45 for a rifle to give to somebody else?
The Warren Commission determined that Oswald DID pay for the rifle.
Only a rabid CTer who is bent on letting LHO slip through the smallest
of cracks would suggest that Rifle C2766 was NOT owned and possessed
by Lee Harvey Oswald from late March of 1963 through November the 22nd
of 1963.
~~~~~~
Oswald's Finance Sheet; December 1962-March 1963 (From the Warren
Report; Page 743):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0384a.htm
~~~~~~
The Klein's Sporting Goods Order Form (CE773):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0331a.htm
~~~~~~
The Money Order for the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, filled out by Lee
Harvey Oswald (CE788):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0352a.htm
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CTer -- There is no proof that any bullets were fired from the Carcano
{CE139} that day.
DVP -- Oh, good grief! You're nuts! There's a whole bullet from
Oswald's gun, and fragments all over the car from that gun (or
consistent with that same gun). But, per certain CTers, the police are
evidently supposed to go OUTSIDE that known evidence and stick to Kook
Logic and say to themselves the following.....
"You know what Chief -- just because we've got all these bullets and
fragments in evidence, and the gun that fired those bullets was in a
building overlooking the motorcade when JFK was shot -- maybe we ought
to think of some kind of OTHER evidence to use in this case, instead
of using this wheelbarrow-full of C2766 stuff. After all, chief, it
COULD just all be a coincidence that C2766 bullets appeared in the
hospital AND in the President's limousine on the exact day when JFK
was killed. Chief, would you like me or one of the other officers to
begin the wild goose chase now?"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4a6b3390021d657c
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CTer -- Some other rifle could have done whatever limited shooting
took place from the TSBD, and no one would be the wiser.
DVP -- And all within a pre-arranged "Let's Frame Oswald As A Lone
Patsy" context, too....right? LOL.
Here we have the kooks doing their best (as per usual) to avoid
placing a speck of blame on Lee Harvey Oswald or his weaponry (i.e.,
the ONLY person and weaponry in the entire case to where any hard
evidence leads).
Maybe actor Robert Blake killed Kennedy. He had a violent nature. And
he would later be charged with a murder. Hasn't anybody checked out
this guy? Maybe he was in Dallas on November 22. The kooks ought to
get crackin' on that angle asap.
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CTer -- You claim that Oswald reached the lunchroom six seconds before
Baker arrived.
DVP -- Those are the estimates provided by the 4 Warren Commission re-
creations, yes. And those re-creations perfectly align with what the
WC says Oswald probably did after shooting JFK. Perfectly. Only a kook
wouldn't be able to see how these re-creations "line up" nicely.
I guess, per CTers, it's just another "coincidence" that the WC (and
Officer Marrion Baker himself) were able to re-create something that
CTers say was utterly impossible, huh?
Just like the Discovery Channel re-created the general path of the
Single-Bullet Theory, even though the SBT, too, is considered an
absolute IMPOSSIBILITY according to almost all conspiracy buffs.
Right? (Go figure.)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/aaeb4a1389e69938
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/29442752a8ed2e8f
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CTer -- But you claim that Oswald WALKED from the sixth floor to the
lunchroom.
DVP -- I never once said that Oswald positively "walked" to the 2nd
Floor. He could have run part of the way. I said that John Howlett,
the SS Agent who did the re-creations of Oswald's probable movements,
performed his re-constructions at two different "walking" paces, yes.
But that doesn't mean that Oswald "walked" it. Maybe he did run. Who
can know? No one can. But the point is -- even if LHO had only WALKED
to the 2nd Floor, it was still a doable journey in order to arrive on
the 2nd Floor approximately 6 to 7 seconds before Baker and Truly.
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CTer -- The book "Best Evidence" was a truly brilliant analysis.
Simply amazing.
DVP -- Yeah, it's "amazing" alright. Amazingly absurd. Even David
Lifton has changed his theory since writing the book. But, by God, he
somehow KNOWS those conspirators got that body off of that airplane!
He hasn't the slightest idea HOW they could have managed that little
piece of President-stealing....but by golly he KNOWS it happened.
Let's listen as Mr. Lifton backpedals:
"About two years after 'Best Evidence' was published, I in fact
realized there was a much more significant moment in time for getting
the body out of the coffin, and that was the brief period when the
coffin was already aboard the plane, and the entire Kennedy party was
down on the tarmac. And today, that is when I think that event
actually occurred. How they got the body off the plane is another
matter." -- David S. Lifton; November 15, 1997