The SBT And The Significance Of "CE903"
David Von Pein
===========================================
WhiskyJoe wrote:
>>> "Specter seems to be pointing at a location well below the neck crease, but higher than the right shoulder. And that's just where the autopsy photograph shows the bullet hole. How is Specter deceiving us when his pointer seems to be at the same level as the bullet hole in the autopsy picture?" <<<
DVP says:
You're 100% correct, Joe. Arlen Specter isn't deceiving anybody. Which
has been a big part of my whole point when harping on CE903
recently...which is a Commission exhibit that (IMO) is a KEY exhibit
in pointing up the viability of Specter's SBT.
And I shall thank Jean Davison (again) for stressing the importance of
CE903 in previous posts of hers too. It was Jean's posts on another
forum, in fact, that sparked my further interest in the largely-
overlooked CE903 exhibit.
Exhibit 903 positively shows the SBT to be a reasonable version of the
multi-victim shooting from strictly the basis of what 903 is designed
to show, i.e., that the angle and wound locations line up to
perfection to support the idea that one bullet COULD (and probably
DID, given other evidence) traverse the path of Specter's pointer in
903 (hence, a single bullet could have very well taken this path on
11/22/63 in Dealey Plaza).....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
And remember that the Connally stand-in is wearing the EXACT jacket
that JBC was wearing when he was shot....and Specter's pointer/rod is
being inserted into the bullet hole on JBC's jacket....and it's doing
so while the pointer is ALSO lined up through JFK's back wound and
"tie knot" exit wound in the throat of the Kennedy stand-in.
What are the ODDS that this type of perfect "SBT alignment" could be
even REMOTELY achieved via Mr. Specter's pointer if two or three
different bullets had actually caused the wounds that line up
beautifully (1, 2, 3) on the TWO different victims?
I will never, EVER understand the anti-SBTers and their adamant stance
that the Single-Bullet Theory is "impossible" or a "wet dream" or, as
Oliver Stone wants America to believe via his 1991 motion picture,
"one of the grossest lies ever forced on the American people"!
Tell the truth, CTers....is this (below) really a "gross lie"? Or is
it the way things most likely occurred on Elm Street on Nov. 22, 1963
(given the known wounds suffered by JFK & JBC)?.....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
Giving credit where credit is, IMO, very much due (to J. Davision):
The material in my essay below deserves to be repeated at least once a
month. It's so simple. And yet so many people fail to see the logic of
it. Thankfully, Jean Davison DID see it. And so do I.....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bf3ae3c6c0993e13
Salvador Astucia
single bullet theory. An unbiased viewing of the Zapruder film reveals
how propaganda was used to confuse the public about the crime, and Mr.
Specter was the number one propagandist. Mr. Specter's whole argument
of the single bullet theory is shown to be a complete hoax when one
realizes that John Connally reacted to being shot four seconds after
JFK grabbed his neck. This realization destroys the entire argument
itself and reveals critics to be fake opposition. Also, there is a one
second delay between Connally's reaction to being hit and the fatal
shot head shot. One second between shots is far too little time for
one person to have fired the latter two shots, thus demonstrating that
there were at least two shooters regardless of the direction from
which the fatal head shot bullet was fired. Everything is revealed in
the Zapruder film.
Here are two versions of the Zapruder Film from YouTube.com which
support my assertions.
Stable version of the Zapruder film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozx4_4DZp38
Regular Zapruder film: (NOTE: You have to click to make it start when
the limo is blocked by the sign.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg07N9OrKW8
Salvador Astucia
David Von Pein
realizes that John Connally reacted to being shot four seconds after
JFK grabbed his neck." <<<
Your analysis of the Zapruder Film is just flat-out wrong. Simple as
that.
Why on Earth anyone would say Connally reacts FOUR SECONDS after JFK
is just....nutty.
The simultaneous reaction of both men is painfully (pun) obvious in
the frames immediately after the bullet has struck the victims at
Z224.
This 2-frame motion gif of Z225-226 below proves my point vividly...as
does the lengthier clip below it. Anyone who says Connally isn't
reacting to severe external stimulus at Z225 and up just isn't
watching the same Z-Film I've watched.....
http://users.skynet.be/mar/SBT/Images2/225-226%20Full.gif
http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/4594.gif
~~~~~~~~~
THE SBT WORKS...ALWAYS HAS:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bb22792c022c5a2e
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/0b30398a449c05b7
David Von Pein
>>> "The bottom line is that the SBT does not fit with the evidence. It was made up to explain where the first bullet went but was based on an incorrect reconstruction using the wrong car. No one has ever investigated the other possibility of the neck shot going into the thigh. I think you have to admit that the neck to thigh makes it easier to explain the condition of CE399." <<<
DVP SAYS:
In my opinion, looking for an LN/LHO "replacement" for the wholly-
plausible and acceptable (per the evidence) SBT is akin to continuing
to search for your lost car keys in the sofa cushions AFTER you've
already found them.
In other words -- Why keep looking for something when the answer is
already on the table?
The "Single-Bullet Theory" fits perfectly with the vast majority of
the evidence in the case, with any "replacement" requiring much larger
leaps of faith and utter guesswork than does the SBT (including at
least one missing bullet).
And the "From JFK's Neck Straight To JBC's Thigh" scenario isn't
possible either, IMO. This image from Dale Myers' exacting computer
simulation (based almost entirely on the Zapruder Film itself)
certainly doesn't favor that type of trajectory.....
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/SOH_1061.jpg
Plus: The "Neck Directly To Thigh" theory has another big hurdle to
overcome, and that is the likelihood that Connally's thighbone (femur)
would almost certainly have been struck and shattered by a bullet that
ONLY went through John Kennedy's neck first.
That bullet, per the WC, was travelling at approx. 1,775 fps when it
exited JFK's throat. At that speed, there's no way it's only going to
cause the superficial type of wound that John Connally did suffer on
November 22, 1963.
Plus: There's also the extensive Warren Commission testimony given by
the FBI's Robert Frazier, wherein Frazier states his opinion, in some
detail, that it's very unlikely that Governor Connally could have been
shot in the back after Z-Film frame #225.....
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr3.htm
I've grown very attached to an often-overlooked Warren Commission
exhibit in recent weeks -- that exhibit being CE903.....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
That exhibit perfectly illustrates the flight path (and general
"workability") of the SBT, in my estimation....with the bullet holes
in the "victims" lining up to as close to perfection as I think could
ever be hoped for via a simulation like that -- with the wound that
begins the SBT path (JFK's back wound) being in the upper back, just
like the autopsy photo shows, and not in the "neck", like lots of
conspiracists think is required in order to make the SBT doable.
Here are some of the miraculous "SBT"-like coincidences that Andrew
Mason and Mark Fuhrman must swallow:
1.) The shape of JBC's back wound, which was a long (not rounded)
wound, indicating a tumbling bullet....which indicates the bullet
probably struck something (which had to be JFK) before hitting
Connally's back.
2.) A disappearing bullet that went into (or through) a victim(s) and
was never recovered.
3.) And the incredible co-inky of having Connally hit on his back by a
separate Oswald bullet just where a missile would also have almost
certainly hit him (or damn close anyway) if the bullet coming out of
JFK had continued moving straight and downward and into the man in
front of the President. (Andrew's analysis notwithstanding.)
BTW, the stand-in for Governor Connally that is seen in CE903 is
wearing the exact same jacket that John Connally was wearing when he
was shot....with Specter's probe/rod being inserted directly into the
bullet hole in that jacket. How much more PERFECT could you possibly
get?*
* = Even when accounting for a slight degree of "plus or minus"
regarding the exact seating positions of the victims; but the stand-
ins' positions look just about spot-on accurate to me in CE903.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
Now, it's true that the car used there (in CE903) is the Secret
Service car and not JFK's Lincoln Continental....but the JBC stand-in
is definitely seated lower than JFK's stand-in (which is correct), and
the WC says in the Warren Report that the differences between the two
types of automobiles were taken into account during the May 1964 re-
creation in Dealey Plaza.
What I'd really love to see myself is an OVERHEAD view of what we see
in CE903. Such an alternate view would really be helpful in
determining the lateral position of the two stand-in "victims" in the
vehicle.
But, unfortunately, Lyndal Shaneyfelt (who took the photo seen in
CE903) didn't take an overhead photo (possibly due to such a
photographic position being impractical to achieve in that garage
setting).
Shaneyfelt said the following during his WC testimony:
"The rod passed through a position on the back of the stand-in for the
President at a point approximating that of the entrance wound, exited
along about the knot of the tie or the button of the coat or button of
the shirt, and the end of the rod was inserted in the entrance hole on
the back of Governor Connally's coat which was being worn by the stand-
in for Governor Connally." -- Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt; 1964
Plus there's the Zapruder Film.....
The Z-Film is certainly showing a simultaneous hit to the men, in my
opinion. I like this toggling clip below, which shows the RIGHT ARMS
of BOTH victims moving upward IN PERFECT TANDEM immediately after a
Z224 bullet strike.....
http://users.skynet.be/mar/SBT/Images2/225-226%20Full.gif
The SEVERAL different "reactions" that can be seen on John Connally
just after Z224 but prior to Z230 just cannot be dismissed, IMO. They
just can't. Just look.....
http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/4594.gif
RE. AN EARLY "CIRCA Z160" FIRST SHOT.......
I disagree with Andrew on that too.
There's evidence of a missed shot at around Z160, IMO. Connally's
"first-shot right turn", which begins at Z164, for one thing. And
Jackie and JFK both turn to their RIGHT as well just about this time
too, and Jackie's turn begins after she had been facing HARD LEFT just
before turning.
And there's Rosemary Willis' "I stopped when I heard a shot" (via
Posner's book). And she has almost completely stopped and is looking
directly at the TSBD by about Z189-Z190.
Here's Z189....
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z189.jpg
It's not overwhelming proof of a Z160 "miss", no. But since that shot
must have MISSED any victims, we're not gonna get somebody holding up
a sign, like in a Warner Brothers' cartoon, saying: "There Was A Shot
Here". That'd be nice, but we'll have to utilize other means to
figure it out. ;)
=====================================================
Here's some more about CE903 and Jean Davison's keen observations as
well.....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bf3ae3c6c0993e13
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c65419db537d4abf
=====================================================
David Von Pein
Andrew,
Why didn't Governor Connally feel the bullet going into his thigh (via
your "Neck-To-Thigh" scenario)?
And that would have been the FIRST of the two bullets to hit JBC, per
your theory. But Connally only felt the blow to his back. And he also
always felt he was hit by just ONE bullet....which was also the
general consensus of his doctors.
Dr. Shaw even said at his 11/22 press conference that it was his
feeling that all of Connally's wounds were caused by just a single
bullet.
You have major obstacles to overcome via your "Anti-SBT, But Pro-LN"
theory, IMO.
Another one, of course, is GETTING KENNEDY OUT OF OSWALD'S WAY, in
order for LHO to have been able to hit JBC in the back with an
unimpeded shot.
All obstacles are eliminated by accepting the WC's SBT.
The SBT =
1.) No missing missiles.
2.) Connally's testimony lines up nicely with the SBT (whether he ever
realized it or not).
3.) The alignment of the victims is good for the SBT (whether CTers
realize it or not).
4.) Connally's small thigh wound is perfectly explained by the LAST
REMAINS of the SBT scenario, i.e., a very slow-moving bullet.
5.) Connally's elongated back wound is also perfect via a SBT
scenario.
6.) The Z-Film perfectly supports the SBT.
7.) And then there's Bullet CE399....which, via Vincent Guinn, very
likely struck JBC's wrist (which presents yet another of Andrew's
problems with his theory).
The SBT works...in every way.
And even when LNers try to reconcile the shooting in non-SBT ways, the
SBT still shines brightly...as evidenced by the many problems I've
mentioned with Andrew's theory...and Mark Fuhrman's too.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4c7616a35ac60e22
David Von Pein
>>> "The SBT does not fit with the evidence." <<<
DVP says:
Nonsense. The SBT fits the majority of the evidence just beautifully.
The bigger mystery (to me) is why someone like you (i.e., an LNer who
knows that Lee Oswald was the sole shooter) wants to re-arrange
history with pure guesswork that's not backed up by either the WC or
the HSCA)?
Were the WC and HSCA all filled with useless boobs when it comes to
the "SBT" part of the shooting?
Now, I don't deny that those two panels arrived at slightly different
timelines re. the specifics of the SBT....but the main point to
remember is --- THEY KNEW THAT A "SBT" *WAS* TO BE DUG OUT OF THAT Z-
FILM SOMEPLACE.
They KNEW, via the OTHER evidence, that one bullet (CE399) hit both
victims. And that's because the alternative is much, much more
UNBELIEVABLE than either the WC's or the HSCA's versions of the SBT.
I think the HSCA got it wrong. JFK was merely moving his hand down
from his last wave when they say he's "reacting" to a gunshot hitting
him at circa Z190; and Kennedy was probably about to brush back his
thick hair, like he does a thousand times in every parade he's ever
ridden in. Plus, it was kind of windy on Nov. 22, too.
Another key pro-SBT point is the total LACK of any other physical
evidence that would show the SBT to be false (e.g., non-399 bullets/
fragments/limo damage). The lack of these things showing up where they
should be showing up if the SBT is dead-wrong supports the high
likelihood that just one bullet went through both men.
The WC/HSCA weren't stupid enough to think that TWO whole bullets went
into JFK and just vanished, while causing virtually no (extensive)
internal damage to the President.
And they also realized that a bullet going all the way through JFK
would almost certainly have to do one of three things --- Hit Connally
in the back, hit the limo (causing damage and probably leaving us with
a WHOLE BULLET to be recovered), or go into some other victim in the
vehicle.
The latter two things did not occur....so what's left?
It's not high mathematics or brain surgery....it's ordinary common
sense (IMHO).
And the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE does fit the SBT; all of it.....
1.) One bullet recovered in the hospital (with Dr. Guinn's analysis
only further bolstering the SBT's likelihood; CTer balking not
included).
2.) The path through the victims fits to a tee (per CE903).
3.) The downward trajectory from the TSBD's Sniper's Nest at circa
Z210-Z225 is approx. 20 degrees to the street (17 degrees through
Kennedy), which perfectly matches the angle of the rod being held up
against the "victims" in CE903, and perfectly matches the "17-degree"
string on the wall in the background of CE903 (which is EXACTLY
PARALLEL to Arlen Specter's metal rod!).....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0065b.htm
"That string was placed along the wall by the surveyor at an angle of
17 degrees-43'-30''." -- Lyndal Shaneyfelt
4.) No bullets or large fragments located in either victim (further
advancing the likelihood that there certainly weren't TWO or THREE
bullets involved here).
5.) The amount of lead inside the victims does not knock the SBT/CE399
out of the "doable" box. No way. No how. Hardly anything ("grain"-
wise) was removed, or left inside, Governor Connally or President
Kennedy.
6.) No limo damage in the back-seat/jump-seat areas.
7.) The Zapruder Film shows the two men reacting at the same
time....and almost certainly as the result of being HIT BY THE VERY
SAME BULLET FROM LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S GUN.....
http://users.skynet.be/mar/SBT/Images2/225-226%20Full.gif
http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/3086.jpg
~~~~~~~
The "witness" evidence (testimony) isn't spot-on perfect to support
the SBT from EVERY last witness....that's true. I admit that.
But are we supposed to let the initial impressions of some of the
eyewitnesses of a split-second event (occurring in a totally-
unexpected manner during the motorcade) completely trump my PHYSICAL
list shown above?
This Vince B. interjection seems appropriate at this point I
think.....
"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck
by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of
any separate bullet hitting Connally.
"With respect to whether or not any shots were fired from the Grassy
Knoll, I want to make the following observations -- firstly, it is
perfectly understandable that the witnesses were confused as to the
origin of fire. Not only does Dealey Plaza resound with echoes, but
here you have a situation of completely-unexpected shots over just a
matter of a few moments.
"When you compound all of that with the fact that the witnesses were
focusing their attention on the President of the United States driving
by, a mesmerizing event for many of them....and the chaos, the
hysteria, the bedlam that engulfed the assassination scene....it's
remarkable that there was any coherence at all to what they thought
they saw and heard.
"Human observation, notoriously unreliable under even the most optimum
situation, HAS to give way to hard, scientific evidence. And we do
have indisputable, scientific evidence in this case that the bullets
which struck President Kennedy came from his rear, not his front." --
Vincent Bugliosi; 1986*
~~~~~~
* = Yes, I know that Vince was mainly talking about the "Front vs.
Rear Shots" debate via the above quotes re. the witnesses. But a
portion of his comments can apply to this SBT discussion too, IMO.
~~~~~~
Plus -- John Connally, the only 11/22 limo victim who lived to tell
his tale, is actually a very good "SBT" witness.
Some JBC quotes (paraphrased).....
"We had just made the turn, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I
heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I
instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come
from over my right shoulder. ... I had time to think; I had time to
react."
"Then I was hit; I felt a blow to my back like someone had just hit me
with a balled-up fist."
"I was not hit by the third shot; I was covered with brain tissue."
"All of the shots came from over my right shoulder; they weren't in
front of us; they weren't to the side of us. There were no sounds like
that emanating from those directions."
===============================================
A COMMON-SENSE APPROACH TO THE SINGLE-BULLET THEORY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a7cf61c59d09bc05
===============================================