Mr. Jack Ruby
taral...@mailinator.com
organized crime was the chosen individual to take out Mr. Oswald at
their behest.
Several questions occur to me.
1. The scheduled move of Mr. Oswald on November 24th was 10:00 AM.
Mr. Ruby did not arrive at the Western Union office until
approximately 11:00 AM. Upon arrival, he, according to the clerk
waited patiently for assistance. Upon leaving the Western Union
office, again according to the clerk, casually strolled towards the
entrance to the police basement some 200 yards away. The time stamp
on Mr. Rubys money order was 11:17 AM. Assuming it took approximately
2 minutes to walk the 200 yards, Mr. Ruby would arrive at about 11:19
AM. He shot Mr. Oswald at 11:20.
My question to all members is: how do conspiracists reconcile the
casual attitude of Mr. Ruby and the fact he had no way of knowing Mr.
Oswald had not yet been transferred? And, would a professional hit
man have left himself only approximately one minute to arrive at the
location for his anticipated hit?
Seems very illogical to me.
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:584f9579-a408-4e0a...@b1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
Limited knowledge always seems "logical".
Apparently tara is NOT aware of........
Ruby was a DPD Informant
Ruby was an FBI Informant
Ruby was a Gunrunner for the CIA
Ruby was an Informant for Richard Nixon in 1947.
Oswald's transfer was "Delayed" Several times.
Final delay was until Ruby got into Position.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
taral...@mailinator.com
> <taralac...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
Mr. Tomnln? Why not just address my comments without the
editorializing Thank you.
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:50678d35-1284-4ec6...@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
Mr. Tomnln? Why not just address my comments without the
editorializing Thank you.
I write;
I DID address your comments.
Apparently you aren't here to address evidence/testimony.
taral...@mailinator.com
And your proof of the above is?
justm...@gmail.com
> > tara wrote;
>
> > Mr. Tomnln? Why not just address my comments without the
> > editorializing Thank you.
>
> > I write;
>
> > I DID address your comments.
>
> > Apparently you aren't here to address evidence/testimony.
>
> Oswald's transfer was "Delayed" Several times.
> Final delay was until Ruby got into Position.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
His imagination
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:185575cd-2fda-4544...@a7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
***************
Oswald's transfer was "Delayed" Several times.
Final delay was until Ruby got into Position.
tara wrote;
And your proof of the above is?
I write;
Should you ever decide to study the subject, you'll find they were gonna
transfer Oswald Saturday.
That changed at least twice.
Finally, they were gonna transfer Oswald at 10:00 a.m. Sunday Morning.
That was delayed by Mayor Earle Cabel tying up the DPD on the phone until
Ruby got into position.
Earle Cabel was brother to CIA's General Charles Cabel, Fired by JFK for
Lying to him over the B. O. P. Fiasco.
I hope your questions are for Learning purposes !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
taral...@mailinator.com
Mr. Tomnln? I am absolutely dumbfounded by your comments. You take a
tremendous leap of faith and offer nothing of substance as proof. So
what if they were going to transfer Oswald on Saturday. What has that
got to do with anything? Have you PROOF of anything you state??
Anybody can speculate Mr. Tomnln. You apparently believe Oswald's
transfer was cancelled on Saturday for a specific reason, do you not?
My question, simply and directly is: What PROOF do you offer for this
theory?
justm...@gmail.com
> > tara wrote;
>
> > Mr. Tomnln? Why not just address my comments without the
> > editorializing Thank you.
>
> > I write;
>
> > I DID address your comments.
>
> > Apparently you aren't here to address evidence/testimony.
>
> ***************
>
> Oswald's transfer was "Delayed" Several times.
> Final delay was until Ruby got into Position.
>
> tara wrote;
>
> And your proof of the above is?
>
> I write;
> Should you ever decide to study the subject, you'll find they were gonna
> transfer Oswald Saturday.
>
> That changed at least twice.
>
> Finally, they were gonna transfer Oswald at 10:00 a.m. Sunday Morning.
>
> That was delayed by Mayor Earle Cabel tying up the DPD on the phone until
> Ruby got into position.
>
> Earle Cabel was brother to CIA's General Charles Cabel, Fired by JFK for
> Lying to him over the B. O. P. Fiasco.
>
> I hope your questions are for Learning purposes !
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is NOT proof that Oswalds move was delayed until Ruby was in
place. That is your theory, unless you have in your "Official
Documents" a legal document that states We detained moving Oswald
until Jack Ruby was in the correct position to shoot him!
Chat room must be dead again tonight...as usual
tomnln
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a183454-9ead-4b28...@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
justme wrote;
His imagination
I write;
NOT much of a source there tara;
Here's the ONLY time justme referenced evidence/testimony>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/secret_service_drinking.htm
evidence/testimony is Totally Foreign to justme.
I suggest you read the WCR's 26 Volumes
The Church Committee's 14 Volumes
The HSCA's 12 Volumes.
The ARRB Report.
Until you've read the official records, you'll never know for sure which
side is Lying to you.
I would hate to think you're here with an already preconceived conclusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
taral...@mailinator.com
> <justme1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out by
conspiracy people has ever held up to
I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:047feca3-2821-4dd5...@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Mr. Tomnln? I am absolutely dumbfounded by your comments. You take a
tremendous leap of faith and offer nothing of substance as proof. So
what if they were going to transfer Oswald on Saturday. What has that
got to do with anything? Have you PROOF of anything you state??
Anybody can speculate Mr. Tomnln. You apparently believe Oswald's
transfer was cancelled on Saturday for a specific reason, do you not?
My question, simply and directly is: What PROOF do you offer for this
theory?
I write;
I've Never offered ANY "theories" tara;
The WCR offered Theory>>> page 541 of the WCR
The WCR offered Theory>>> SBT
Neither of which seem to bother you.
The Proof is that they did NOT transfer Oswald when they say they would.
I suggest you read the official evidence/testimony.
I've asked you before;
Do you wanna address these Crimes by the authorities?>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
taral...@mailinator.com
Mr. Tomnln? There is no point in continuing this conversation. There
mere fact that you could even type the above comment exemplifies
everything wrong with the conspiracy community.
tomnln
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c7ad7d3-f1ab-44f7...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
justme wrote;
That is NOT proof that Oswalds move was delayed until Ruby was in
place. That is your theory, unless you have in your "Official
Documents" a legal document that states We detained moving Oswald
until Jack Ruby was in the correct position to shoot him!
Chat room must be dead again tonight...as usual
I write;
HAHAHAHAHAHA
justme wants a "signed confession"
The chat room Always has quite a few Regulars.
The chat room always has some newbies who wanna know what happened
The chat room had a few WCR believers who I "Converted" with
evidence/testimony.
The chat room has NEVER had a Lone Nutter who was willing to address
official evidence/testimony.
Kinda like you RUNNING from these>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
They're all COWARDS !
Foe Good Reason>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/radio_debate.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
taral...@mailinator.com
> <justme1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The point in discussing evidence/testimony with you serves no
purpose. Firstly, you do not know the legal meaning of "proof" and
secondly, I was discussing the evidence/testimony of Mr. Wilcox which
you apparently do not recognize as evidence/testimony. Mr. Tomnln?
You do not appear well versed on this case or on the law.
The subject of this posting was Jack Ruby. You addressed nothing
about Jack Ruby and the points I raised. You offered a theory that
Ruby was not transferred on Saturday for nefarious reasons. When I
asked you for proof, you said: the fact they transferred him on
Saturday WAS the proof. Do you ever read your own postings Mr. Tomnln
and even begin to understand how irrational they are?
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:64601fc4-19f2-48fc...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out by
conspiracy people has ever held up to
I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
I write;
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
That's the Disadvantage you're at by NOT keeping up with the subject.
That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE gathering
the Facts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:e5eb0147-d133-4d16...@r37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
tara wrote;
Mr. Tomnln? There is no point in continuing this conversation. There
mere fact that you could even type the above comment exemplifies
everything wrong with the conspiracy community.
I write;
You RUN very quickly tara;
You also keep RUNNING from these>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
taral...@mailinator.com
Here are some facts for you Mr. Tomnln:
We know Ruby arrived at the Western Union at approximately 11:00 AM.
We know there was one customer ahead of him in line. We know Mr. Ruby
purchased his money order at 11:17AM. We know the underground
entrance to the Police station was approximately 220 yards from the
Western Union office. We know, per the testimony of the Western Union
clerk that Mr. Ruby casually left the building. Since Mr. Ruby
arrived approximately 30 seconds before Oswald appeared, certain facts
become logical.
Mr. Ruby was in no hurry to get down that ramp. He had no way of
knowing Oswald, scheduled to be moved at 10:00 AM had not been moved.
Does this evidence indicate a premeditated plan by Mr. Ruby? Not to
any sane person it doesn't. When I asked for comments, what do you
provide:
Finally, they were gonna transfer Oswald at 10:00 a.m. Sunday Morning.
That was delayed by Mayor Earle Cabel tying up the DPD on the phone
until
Ruby got into position.
So, when I ask you for proof of the above theory, what do you provide:
The Proof is that they did NOT transfer Oswald when they say they
would.
Absurd and I might add embarrassing to the conspiracy community if
this is the best they present.
taral...@mailinator.com
You RUN very quickly tara;
Time is valuable Mr. Rossley. This is simply a waste of time.
That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE
gathering
the Facts.
I have presented to you the facts about Mr. Ruby on November 24th.
What I have presented is what you always request. Evidence/
Testimony. You run from it but you never respond with anything but
nonsense.
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:214c4c32-9f1f-4003...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Ruby did not want to kill Oswald.
Ruby called the DPD in the wee small hours of the morning, warning, "If you
move him, we'll kill him".
SEE>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCb6zfvNsh8
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:7c5380fb-6c47-4c4c...@j18g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
SEE>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCb6zfvNsh8
The "Nonsense" is all Yours tara.
taral...@mailinator.com
Ruby called the DPD in the wee small hours of the morning, warning,
"If you
move him, we'll kill him".
Ruby did not want to kill Oswald.
Source for the above?
Steve
> > > > justme wrote;
>
> > > > His imagination
>
> > > > I write;
>
> > > > NOT much of a source there tara;
>
> > > > Here's the ONLY time justme referenced
> > > > evidence/testimony>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/secret_service_drinking.htm
>
> > > > evidence/testimony is Totally Foreign to justme.
>
> > > > I suggest you read the WCR's 26 Volumes
> > > > The Church Committee's 14 Volumes
> > > > The HSCA's 12 Volumes.
> > > > The ARRB Report.
>
> > > > Until you've read the official records, you'll never know for sure which
> > > > side is Lying to you.
>
> > > > I would hate to think you're here with an already preconceived conclusion.
>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > tara wrote;
>
> > > Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out by
> > > conspiracy people has ever held up to
>
> > > I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
> > > You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
> > > point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
> > > argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
> > > forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
> > > elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
>
> > > I write;
>
> > > SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
>
> > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by NOT keeping up with the subject.
>
> > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE gathering
> > > the Facts.
>
> - Show quoted text -
The whole claim that Ruby shot Oswald to silence him is so silly it
doesn't merit serious response. Tomnin is crossed up on what he
believes. He believes that Oswald was not guilty of the murder, yet
he also believes Ruby killed Oswald before he could talk. If Oswald
was NOT guilty then what has he to tell? Only a guilty person could
talk. The conspiracy crazies have their theories bumping into one
another. Either Oswald was guilty (which all forensic supports) and
Ruby was hired to kill him (which NO evidence supports) or else Oswald
was innocent and was in the first floor lunchroom at the time of the
assassination in which case there is no need for Roby to silence him.
Tomnin always tells everyone to read the official record but he rarely
answers difficult conflicts which you have brought up. Anytime Tomnin
turns the tables and tells YOU to read the official record it always
he is cornered and needs to quickly redirect the conversation so that
HE on the offensive. It is the oldest conspiracy about face in
history. After reading the official records Tomnin should know very
well that NO evidence has yet been brought forth to support the theory
that Ruby was hired by ANYONE to kill Oswald. If there IS such
evidence only HE knows of it.
taral...@mailinator.com
Mr. Tomnln? Simple question. Does the behavior of Jack Ruby on the
morning of November 24th indicate a premeditated murder?
David Von Pein
Many people seem to feel that it's the LNers who are the naive ones
when it comes to assessing the Jack Ruby situation. But I'd favor the
CTers being the naive group in the "Ruby" regard.
Conspiracy believers are forced to believe in a string of coincidences
that were really "contrivances" evidently, per CTers, in order for
Ruby to have rubbed out a certain Mr. Oswald as part of some pre-
arranged plot.
In addition to a pooch named "Sheba" and the amazing co-inky of having
the "Patsy" HIMSELF delaying his own rendezvous with death by
requesting a change of clothing at the 11th hour just before his
transfer....conspiracy theorists, by default, are also forced to
include Ruby's nightclub stripper (Karen Carlin) as one of THE MAIN
CONSPIRATORS.
And I ask -- Is it likely that 20-year-old nightclub employee Karen
Carlin was "in" on a conspiracy plot to kill Lee Oswald?
The conspiracists do, indeed, need Carlin "in" on any plot, due to the
mere fact that it was Carlin's phone call to Jack Ruby on the morning
of November 24th that set the wheels in motion for Ruby to be in the
general area of the police basement at just the proper time to kill
Oswald.
Without Carlin's request for that money order, Jack Ruby would have
had no reason whatsoever to be at that Western Union office in
downtown Dallas (which was just half-a-block away from the city jail
where Oswald was about to be moved).
Yes, Ruby told Carlin that he was going downtown anyway that
morning...but without Carlin's specific request for $25 from her
employer (Ruby), it's very doubtful that Jack would have gone to a
location downtown that would have placed him in very close proximity
of the city jail (where he saw people gathered).
Ruby, at the time he left his apartment at about 11 AM, was of the
opinion that Oswald had ALREADY BEEN TRANSFERRED to the county jail.
But when he got downtown, he saw the crowd near the jail and decided
to have a look-see.
4 minutes is all that separated Jack's Western Union order to Carlin
(stamped "11:17 AM") and the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald (at 11:21
AM).
Ruby being in a position to pull that trigger was via pure ordinary
happenstance. And if the "conspirators" were THAT good, that they
could make a pre-arranged "plot" equate in every way to
"happenstance"....heck, they almost deserve to get away with it.
Because such a beautifully-in-sync, choreographed performance
(including that little "delay" caused by the patsy himself!) is just
too good a performance to be spat upon indeed.
David Von Pein
April 24, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/79ae45666ea1b9ac
===============================================
Jack Ruby's ACTIONS on 11/24/63 positively show NO PREMEDITATION.
None.
Other things to consider with respect to Ruby and the murder of Lee
Harvey Oswald.....
What if another customer or two had been in line at Western Union?
Or -- What if Jack had left his apartment just TWO MINUTES later on
November 24th?
Either of the above occurrences would very likely have meant that Ruby
would have missed having the chance to kill Oswald.
Do conspiracy advocates really think the "timing" and the "Western
Union money order" were things that were part of a "ruse" of some
kind....designed to merely throw people off of the "pre-planned
conspiracy" track in the years to come?
Plus.....
What about Karen Carlin (the stripper/dancer who called Jack on the
morning of the 24th and asked for the $25 money order)?*
* = The money needed to be wired to Carlin, btw, because Ruby had
decided to close both of his nightclubs for two or more days in
deference to the assassinated President -- which was a decision Jack
made within hours of JFK's death on Friday.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carlin_k1.htm
Now, when examining Carlin's WC testimony (linked above), we can see
that Karen called Ruby on Saturday for a $5 advance, with Jack then
telling Carlin to call him on Sunday for any additional money she
required (which Carlin needed to pay her rent).
But Jack never told Carlin exactly WHAT TIME on Sunday to call him.
Nor did he confirm on Saturday exactly how much cash to wire her. He
didn't say to her, "call me before 10:00", for example. Nor did he ask
her on Saturday, "how much money do you need?".
So, for all Jack knew on Saturday night, Carlin might be calling him
at 12:00 noon or 2:00 PM on Sunday with the details re. her additional
loan that she needed. If the call had occurred at either of those
times on Sunday...obviously Oswald would have not been shot, because
Jack's trip to Western Union would have occurred after Oswald had been
transferred to the County Jail.
Also, if Carlin hadn't called Ruby on Sunday morning AT ALL (which was
certainly possible for all Jack knew on SATURDAY), the "coincidence
chain" leading to Oswald's death would never have been started in the
first place.
Because if Carlin hadn't called Ruby to ask for that $25 money order,
then Jack would certainly not have had any reason to visit the Western
Union office in downtown Dallas, which was just a block from the City
Jail (where a crowd had formed, which attracted Jack's attention, even
though Ruby thought that Oswald had ALREADY BEEN MOVED by that time).
Now, it's true that Ruby did tell Carlin (on Sunday morning) that he
had intended to go "downtown" sometime on Sunday anyway. But without
Carlin's plea for a money order (necessitating Jack's trip to the
Western Union office), Ruby would almost certainly not have been
exactly where he was in the downtown area at 11:17 AM on Sunday, Nov.
24th.
Do CTers think that Karen Carlin was part of some kind of "plot" or
"ruse" too?
Plus.....
What if Jack had decided to send Carlin the money order from a
different Western Union office? (Surely there was more than just one
such office in the whole of Dallas, Texas....right? I'm not sure, but
I'm guessing there was probably more than just the one W.U. office in
that large U.S. city.)
Or: What if Jack had decided to just loan Karen $25 out of his own
pocket, which could have also occurred. That scenario would have meant
no Western Union visit needed at all.
Plus.....
If Jack hadn't made the decision to close his nightclubs for a few
days that weekend (a decision he made, as I mentioned, two days before
he killed Oswald), then Karen Carlin would not have had a reason to
have cash "money ordered" to her (she could have picked it up at one
of the nightclubs instead, had they been open).
The "happenstance" and "mere coincidence" trail is significant here.
It's either "happenstance", or the most remarkable hunk of
"conspiratorial coordination" I've ever encountered (including little
"Sheba" being left in the car to make things look "spontaneous" in
nature).
This "coordination", if it was a pre-arranged plan, would have to go
all the way down to Karen Carlin's penniless state on Nov. 23 and 24,
which is CRITICAL to having Ruby being in the right place at the right
time at 11:21 AM on Sunday, the 24th.
================
Another interesting hunk of insight into Jack Ruby's bereaved state of
mind during that November '63 weekend can be found in the following
portion of Karen Carlin's WC testimony.....
KAREN CARLIN -- "I reached him {Ruby} at home {on Saturday night,
11/23}. He answered the telephone. And I asked Jack if we were going
to be open, and he got very angry and was very short with me. He said,
"Don't you have any respect for the President? Don't you know the
President is dead?" And I said, "Jack, I am sorry. Andrew said that
perhaps we would be open, and I don't have any money, and you know I
am supposed to get paid." And I wanted some money on my pay to get
back home. And he said, "I don't know when I will open. I don't know
if I will ever open back up." And he was very hateful. And he said he
had to come down to the club in about an hour, and for me to wait and
he would see me then. And I hung up and told my husband what had
happened; and we waited and waited, and he didn't show up."
David Von Pein
March 24, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/56a7ba2e0b1b7e34
==========================================
>>> "You argue Ruby killed Oswald because he admired Kennedy. You believe this because of what Ruby said after the shooting." <<<
You can't read very well, can you?
It wasn't JUST the words from Ruby's lips. His friends and family all
said that Ruby was a big JFK fan. We don't have to take Ruby's word
alone for that.
>>> "But when Ruby later retracted this and said the real reason he did it was at the behest of powerful people in Washington, you dismiss this as lying." <<<
When did Ruby ever say anything remotely similar to that? I don't
think he ever did. In fact, he was eager (begging!) to be taken to
Washington so that he could prove that he WASN'T part of any
conspiracy.
Ruby feared, and rightly so, that many people in Dallas would be out
to get him because they would think he was part of some bigger "plot";
which is why he didn't feel safe in Dallas and wanted to go to
Washington.
Another of Ruby's stated reasons for killing Oswald was because he
"wanted to show the world that Jews had guts" (paraphrased Ruby
quote).
Ruby was upset by the "Bernard Weissman" (Jewish) black-bordered anti-
Kennedy ad that appeared in the Dallas newspaper(s) on the morning of
11/22/63.
And Ruby even went so far as to take pictures of an "Impeach Earl
Warren" billboard at 5:00 AM on 11/23/63 (the billboard evidently had
Weissman's name associated with it in some manner, or at least Ruby
thought Weissman might be associated with it).
Ruby's motives are somewhat muddled, true. I can't deny that. Because
if he was creating a "file" (or whatever) on Weissman, and he later
said he "did it to show that Jews had guts"....that certainly implies
premeditation on Ruby's behalf.
But the way he actually DID kill Oswald certainly does NOT imply any
premeditation whatsoever (e.g., little "Sheba" [dog] left in his car;
Western Union trip; and not leaving his apartment until AFTER the
previously-announced time for Oswald's transfer).
So, it's a puzzle of sorts....no doubt. But Ruby was positively
distraught after the President's murder....and he was positively upset
about the Weissman ad, and he said this to the DMN people on 11/22
(Ruby even mentioned his displeasure re. the Weissman ad BEFORE
Kennedy was even shot, mentioning it to his sister over the phone and
also when he was placing his nightclub ads at the newspaper office;
Zoppi and Newnam are probably witnesses to that fact, but I'd have to
check the record to verify).
>>> "How does he sacrifice his own life without knowing for sure if the man he's about to murder is the one who murdered his beloved Kennedy?" <<<
You're asking why a distraught, obviously-emotional and high-strung
man would be willing to take the kneejerk, sudden type action he did
in a police basement without having every last piece of evidence
against his victim firmly entrenched (and verified) in his brain, huh?
Oh, well, I don't know....maybe because IT WAS A SUDDEN, MAD ACT OF
SPUR-OF-THE-MOMENT VIOLENCE THAT WASN'T IN THE SLIGHTEST DEGREE PRE-
PLANNED OR THOUGHT OUT AHEAD OF TIME.
That could be it right there. Ya think? ;)
Bottom-line:
1.) Ruby was upset over the President's murder and he was upset over
the Weissman ad that appeared in the paper.
2.) Ruby was AT the midnight press conference, so we KNOW for a fact
he heard what America heard as DA Henry Wade was roasting Oswald in
front of the Live TV cameras (not a smart move, btw, IMO, but Wade,
Fritz, and Curry had no hesitation whatsoever to put their case before
America, for some reason, miles ahead of Oswald's trial).
3.) So we know that Ruby almost certainly thought Lee Oswald was
guilty.
4.) A distraught Ruby + the "Weissman" thing + the knowledge that Oz
was almost certainly guilty + THE GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT = A dead
Lee Harvey Oswald.
David Von Pein
March 24, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/94fc76a618042c58
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/282939f80bd8af47
===========================================
MORE RUBY TALK:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/77edb3f67ec3350a
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/5bfb6bd1b771ed4d
David Von Pein
VINCENT BUGLIOSI SAID:
"With respect to the Kennedy assassination, once you establish and
know that Oswald is guilty, as has been done, then you also
necessarily know that there is an answer (whether the answer is known
or not) compatible with this conclusion for the endless alleged
discrepancies, inconsistencies, and questions the conspiracy theorists
have raised through the years about Oswald's guilt." -- Page 953 of
"Reclaiming History"
A BLIND CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID:
"Priceless quote."
DVP (A NON-KOOK) SAYS:
Yeah....I thought so too. (That's why I posted it...yet again.)
Here's another VB gem that never fails to elicit a smile:
"Waiting for the conspiracy theorists to tell the truth is a little
like leaving the front-porch light on for Jimmy Hoffa." -- VB; Page
xiv of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
THE BLIND CTer SAID:
"What arrogance {Bugliosi displays in his JFK book}."
DVP SAYS:
The truth hurts conspiracy theorists. It has for 44 years. It must be
awfully discouraging for the conspiracy lovers to come up empty in the
"Raw Physical Evidence" department, decade after decade. 44 years
later and lookie what bullets and ballistics evidence are on the table
-- Only Oswald's.
That's some great proof of a multi-gun assassination "conspiracy" that
nearly all CTers place their blind faith in, huh? (Criminy.)
Vince is arrogant. You're 100% right about that. But I love his
arrogance. And that's because he's got ample REASON to display such
arrogance toward the rabid JFK conspiracists of this world. The
theories and "plots" that have purported since 1963 are simply
ridiculous....or, as VB puts it, they are just "pure moonshine".
How anyone can possibly look into the JFK case for more than just a
few days and come away with a "There Must Have Been A Conspiracy"
mindset is just totally beyond my thinking.*
* = But, then again, I don't go around 24/7 accusing everybody in
Officialdom of performing illegal acts with respect to the
investigation of a murdered U.S. President. Call me silly, but that's
the way I am. And I'm not about to change that common-sense philosophy
just because Ollie Stone filmed a crazy 3-shooter, 6-shot, ONE-PATSY
assassination scenario for Warner Brothers in 1991. (Ya GOTTA love
that one for impossible-to-pull-off murder schemes!)
THE CTer UTTERED:
"The way he {Bugliosi} thinks has nothing to do with thinking at all,
and he has dealt with the evidence against Oswald bass ackwards."
DVP SAYS:
You must be high on copious quantities of Goofy Gas to say such a
silly thing re. VB's "evidence" against Lee Oswald.
Bugliosi has laid out so much raw physical and circumstantial evidence
against this nutcase named Oswald, it would make ANY prosecutor's
mouth water non-stop for a month.
There have been few murder cases in the last 100 years that have left
behind such a popcorn trail of evidence (both physical and
circumstantial) leading to the ONE AND ONLY killer.
And if you want to take the normal "bass ackwards" tack that
conspiracy promoters often like to take (i.e., pretend that all of the
massive amount of evidence against Oswald has been faked and/or
manipulated by evil-doers both before and after 12:30 PM on
11/22/63)....then you'd better make an appointment to see Dr. Bob
Hartley (or another well-respected phychologist or phychiatrist of
some ilk), because the standard, unsupportable "Everything's Been
Faked" mantra is nothing but a cop-out that CTers use because THERE'S
NOTHING LEFT TO ARGUE.
When you've got no evidence at all that shows other killers besides
Oswald murdered both JFK and J.D. Tippit, then (obviously) the
conspiracy-adoring clowns of the universe have no choice but to go
down "Everything Was Fake" Avenue.
THE CTer IN DENIAL SAID:
"So most of us are NOT buying the W.R. {Warren Report} conclusions
about who Oswald was and what he supposedly did."
DVP RETORTS:
Gee, there's a shocker, isn't it? Somebody who thinks something
"shady" was going on with an official Government investigation.
The "9/11 Was An Inside Job" Internet Forums are also filled with such
mentally-bankrupt kooks. It's built-in with many people. It's the
"Nothing Is Ever What It Seems To Be" syndrome.
I wonder if conspiracy theorists regularly argue that Sharon Tate
WASN'T killed as the result of a conspiracy. The way the "CTer" mind
works (i.e., topsy-turvy and usually wrong), it wouldn't surprise me
greatly if that's what they think.
MR. CTer SAID:
"My God, he {Saint Oswald} was MURDERED before our very eyes, and gee,
even the blind-to-conspiracy people have contrived a way to deny
that."
DVP SAYS:
When somebody with some common sense reflects upon the initial knee-
jerk (and expected) reaction to Oswald's murder at the hands of Jack
Ruby, then the obvious flaws in the "Mob Rub-Out" theory--or ANY "rub-
out" type of theory--amply present themselves. Flaws such as:
1.) Does the Mob usually kill their "patsies" on LIVE TELEVISION in
front of millions of witnesses and in front of 70 police officers (so
that the patsy's killer--who is probably the biggest snitch/
blabbermouth in the state of Texas--has no hope of escaping)?
2.) Does anybody with a lick of common sense actually think that Karen
Carlin was "involved" in this "plot" that CTers believe was behind
Oswald's murder? CTers who buy into a "Ruby plot" must think Mrs.
Carlin WAS a key plotter, because it was her phone call to Jack Ruby
at 10:19 AM on November 24th that prompted Ruby to go downtown and was
the main reason why Ruby was in the exact area of the City Jail at
just the right time to bump off Lee Oswald.
3.) And can any reasonable person actually believe that the "plot"
involving Ruby was so intricate and detailed that it involved getting
Carlin to call Ruby at just the proper time on Sunday morning (which
was actually AFTER Oswald was already supposed to have been
transferred to the County Jail)....and then the "plot" involved Ruby
taking his beloved dog ("Sheba") with him on his "rub-out"
assignment....and then the intricate murder plan (somehow) involved
Ruby going into the Western Union office near the City Jail, where he
waits behind one customer -- and what if it had been SIX or SEVEN
customers? Would Fritz & Co. have "stalled" for 10 or 15 more minutes
until Ruby was done sending his stripper that $25?
4.) Ruby sent his Money Order to Carlin at 11:17 AM on November 24th.
He killed Lee Harvey Oswald at 11:21 AM. Pretty tight on the "Mob"
timeline/schedule, wasn't it?
5.) And part of Oswald's delay in being transferred was brought about
by OSWALD HIMSELF....he wanted to change an article of clothing at the
last minute. And, being the fair-minded writer that no CTer thinks he
actually is, Mr. Bugliosi gives BOTH versions of the change-of-clothes
scenario in his book....with one version being that Oswald himself
asked for the clothing change. And the other being a version which has
DPD Captain J. Will Fritz offering Oswald the clothing change.
On Page #267 of "Reclaiming History", Bugliosi writes......
"11:10 a.m. {Sunday, November 24}...Fritz realizes that Oswald is only
clad in a T-shirt. "Do you want something to put over your T-shirt?"
he asks. "Yes," Oswald says."
I suppose some CTers probably think that Captain Fritz was a prime
"conspirator". But to think that Fritz, a 30-year DPD police veteran,
was a part of some kind of conspiracy to "silence" his prisoner is to
believe in a silly fairy tale that would have had Fritz intentionally
subjecting his very own police department to public ridicule for years
to come, due to a Presidential assassin being killed right inside the
Captain's own police station while surrounded by dozens of armed
officers. That's a theory that is just plain loony.
Also....with respect to Ruby killing Oswald, Bugliosi offers up the
following humorous simulated conversation between Ruby and one of his
co-plotters (appearing on Pages 1143 and 1144 of VB's JFK book)......
"Vito" is talking to Jack Ruby -- "Jack?"
Jack Ruby says --"Yeah, Vito?"
Vito -- "One last thing before I go. We have to make real sure that
Oswald is killed, in fact, right on the spot. We can't afford to have
him last for even a minute. So make sure you don't aim at his head. In
fact, don't even aim at his heart. Shoot him in the belly, Jack.
That's the quickest way by far to kill him right on the spot."
Jack -- "Okay, Vito, anything you say."
THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST WHINED:
"The only thing more biased than Bugliosi himself are his sycophantic
supporters who post on every forum and newsgroup imaginable, as if
they were on some gov't payroll."
DVP SAYS:
That's odd....I thought I was the only one supporting VB so loudly. I
certainly haven't run into any other super-ardent VB supporters. In
fact, at the Internet locations I visit, very few people seem to care
too much about Vincent's book at all (either LNers or CTers).
But, anyhow, I'm more than happy to sing VB's pro-LN praises. Because
after 21 years of wading through the sickening (but laughable)
conspiracy theories of Lifton, Horne, Groden, Garrison, Stone, Marrs,
Vary-Baker, Waldron, and Armstrong (among many others)....Vincent
Bugliosi, in my opinion, deserves HEAPS of admiration and kudos! (For
the aggravation brought on by reading such conspiracy-flavored tripe
for years on end, if for no other reason.)
DVP ADDENDUM RE. CONSPIRACY THEORISTS......
I always find it quite humorous when "Assassination
Sensationalists" (to borrow a nifty phrase for "CTers" penned by
Warren Commission counsel member and author David Belin) show all
kinds of indignation toward "LNers" (i.e., reasoned-thinking lone-
assassin believers)....as if the wholly-unsupportable conspiracy
theories that are continually and fervently embraced by these
"sensationalists" are deserving of even the slightest bit of attention
and/or respect. It's hilarious.
Every single thing that solo assassin Lee H. Oswald did (both before
after after 12:30 PM on Friday, November 22nd, 1963) screams "Guilty
Presidential Assassin" (and more-than-likely "Guilty Alone" as well).
>From HIS (Oswald's own) rifle being found on the sixth floor of the
Book Depository 52 minutes after JFK's murder....to the bullet shells
from HIS own gun being found under the killer's window....to bullets
from HIS own gun being found in the LIMO ITSELF and in the hospital
where the victims were taken....to HIS fingerprints all over
everything in the very spot where the assassin fired at the President
(including that EMPTY paper sack, which had no logical explanation for
being where it was found after the assassination)....to HIS own
crappy-
as-all-get-out escape plan (walking, bus, cab, more walking/
running)....to HIS killing of Officer Tippit in front of multiple
witnesses just 45 minutes after JFK was gunned down from right in
front of HIS own working establishment....to HIS provable lies that he
uttered to the police after his arrest (an arrest that occurred while
HE -- Mr. Oswald -- tried to gun down additional cops in the Texas
Theater).
Gee, I wonder how anybody could POSSIBLY come to the conclusion that
this guy -- Lee Oswald -- did anything against the law in Dallas on
November 22, 1963?
Reprise --- Criminy!
I'll close this post with another VB quotation......
"In the Kennedy case, I believe the absence of a conspiracy can be
proved to a virtual certainty." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Page 973 of
"RH" (c.2007)
David Von Pein
October 11, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f753fd68aa03bb77
aeffects
> Many people seem to feel that it's the LNers who are the naive ones
> when it comes to assessing the Jack Ruby situation.
dipshit... many people this, many people that, you haven't got a
fucking clue what your talking about.... if you can't copy & paste it,
its beyond your purview.... now sit-down and breathe deeply...
<snip the troll's idiocy>
Gary Combs
CIA director and fired by Kennedy over the BOP's, bending over to
accommodate Ruby, as the designated hit on Oswald. IMO
gc
aral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
Martin Shackelford
It
refers to a criminal ploy used by others, "the Western Union alibi," and
explains
how it is set up and used. Two other Western Union offices were closer to
Ruby's
apartment--if he was merely in a hurry to wire money to his employee, why
skip
them and go to the one downtown?
Martin
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
Gil Jesus
> Many who believe in conspiracy believe Jack Ruby, on behalf or
> organized crime was the chosen individual to take out Mr. Oswald at
> their behest.
>
> Several questions occur to me.
>
> 1. �The scheduled move of Mr. Oswald on November 24th was 10:00 AM.
> Mr. Ruby did not arrive at the Western Union office until
> approximately 11:00 AM. �Upon arrival, he, according to the clerk
> waited patiently for assistance. �Upon leaving the Western Union
> office, again according to the clerk, casually strolled towards the
> entrance to the police basement some 200 yards away. �The time stamp
> on Mr. Rubys money order was 11:17 AM. �Assuming it took approximately
> 2 minutes to walk the 200 yards, Mr. Ruby would arrive at about 11:19
> AM. �He shot Mr. Oswald at 11:20.
>
> My question to all members is: �how do conspiracists reconcile the
> casual attitude of Mr. Ruby and the fact he had no way of knowing Mr.
> Oswald had not yet been transferred? �And, would a professional hit
> man have left himself only approximately one minute to arrive at the
> location for his anticipated hit?
>
> Seems very illogical to me.
Were all of those time-keeping devices synchronized ?
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:c4f779ad-8125-4dc2...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Source for the above?
taral...@mailinator.com
Corroboration?
Steve
> > > > > > justme wrote;
>
> > > > > > His imagination
>
> > > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > > NOT much of a source there tara;
>
> > > > > > Here's the ONLY time justme referenced
> > > > > > evidence/testimony>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/secret_service_drinking.htm
>
> > > > > > evidence/testimony is Totally Foreign to justme.
>
> > > > > > I suggest you read the WCR's 26 Volumes
> > > > > > The Church Committee's 14 Volumes
> > > > > > The HSCA's 12 Volumes.
> > > > > > The ARRB Report.
>
> > > > > > Until you've read the official records, you'll never know for sure
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > side is Lying to you.
>
> > > > > > I would hate to think you're here with an already preconceived
> > > > > > conclusion.
>
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > tara wrote;
>
> > > > > Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out by
> > > > > conspiracy people has ever held up to
>
> > > > > I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
> > > > > You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
> > > > > point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
> > > > > argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
> > > > > forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
> > > > > elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
>
> > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by NOT keeping up with the subject.
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE
> > > > > gathering
> > > > > the Facts.
>
> - Show quoted text -
What is the FIRST record of Billy Grammar's claims of the Ruby phone
call? I would like to read the FIRST recorded mention he gave of a
phone call from Jack Ruby. If he first mentions it in TMWKK then he
has no credibility with me at all.
Gil Jesus
>
> Ruby called the DPD in the wee small hours of the morning, warning,
> "If you
> move him, we'll kill him".
>
> Ruby did not want to kill Oswald.
>
> Source for the above?
>
> SEE>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCb6zfvNsh8-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Boy, that "Tara" is really some LNer for a newbie, huh ?
Here's some more:
Ruby stalking Oswald at the Midnight Press Conference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuudRsNewsM
Ruby letter: I killed Oswald to silence him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUiZBmm9xUA
Ruby: JFK killed over preference for Johnson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-L5xYwb2ls
Ruby & Oswald knew each other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVM_UbBIyI
Ruby connection to Johnson lawyer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pyD3wyMpvM
Ruby connected to Dallas Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxqojlLj7o
"Tara" would like us to think that Ruby's killing of Oswald was not
premeditated, but what did Henry Wade tell the WC about Ruby's
premeditation ?
Mr. WADE. ......( Lt. ) Dean said that Ruby said, "The first time I
thought of killing him was Friday night or thought about killing him
was Friday night in the lineup."
( 5 H 246 )
Dean told the WC that he testified during the Ruby trial that Ruby
told him that he had decided to kill Oswald when he saw him at Friday
night's "Midnight Press Conference".
Mr. DEAN. .........Ruby .......... told me ...... that he had thought
two nights prior when he saw Lee Oswald on a showup stand with a
sarcastic sneer on his face is when he decided if he got the chance he
would kill him. This was the thing that I testified in court about.
I was cross-examined in court.
( 5 H 257 )
The evidence indicates the murder of Oswald was premeditated and Ruby
was sane at the time of the murder.
As a result, he was convicted of first degree murder.
That's murder WITH premeditation.
And the jury deliberated less than two-and-one-half hours to return
its verdict of guilty, and he was sentenced to death in the electric
chair.
The state proved premeditation.
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:fef06d4c-1d8c-4096...@h28g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
You already had the answer to that one tara>>>
tomnln
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:657ac636-1a0e-4774...@s12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Corroboration?
If you were THAT demanding of the WCR, Jerry Ford would have Died in Prison.
Steve
> > > > > > justme wrote;
>
> > > > > > His imagination
>
> > > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > > NOT much of a source there tara;
>
> > > > > > Here's the ONLY time justme referenced
> > > > > > evidence/testimony>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/secret_service_drinking.htm
>
> > > > > > evidence/testimony is Totally Foreign to justme.
>
> > > > > > I suggest you read the WCR's 26 Volumes
> > > > > > The Church Committee's 14 Volumes
> > > > > > The HSCA's 12 Volumes.
> > > > > > The ARRB Report.
>
> > > > > > Until you've read the official records, you'll never know for sure
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > side is Lying to you.
>
> > > > > > I would hate to think you're here with an already preconceived
> > > > > > conclusion.
>
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > tara wrote;
>
> > > > > Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out
> > > > > by
> > > > > conspiracy people has ever held up to
>
> > > > > I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
> > > > > You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
> > > > > point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
> > > > > argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
> > > > > forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
> > > > > elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
>
> > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by NOT keeping up with the
> > > > > subject.
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE
> > > > > gathering
> > > > > the Facts.
>
> - Show quoted text -
My request for the original source has been ignored. What is
Grammar's ORIGINAL statement concerning the alleged phone call he
received from "Ruby"? Is the first time he spoke of this on TMWKK?
Steve
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where can I see the original "note" from "Jack Ruby"? Has it been
authenticated by an impartial handwriting expert to prove it is from
Ruby? Where can I read about the authentication of the "Ruby Note"?
tomnln
"Steve" <sahi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6488c5c5-f319-449d...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Steve wrote;
My request for the original source has been ignored. What is
Grammar's ORIGINAL statement concerning the alleged phone call he
received from "Ruby"? Is the first time he spoke of this on TMWKK?
I write;
If you think Grammer said something Different, YOU shouls produce it ! !
SEE>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCb6zfvNsh8
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
Steve wrote;
Where can I see the original "note" from "Jack Ruby"? Has it been
authenticated by an impartial handwriting expert to prove it is from
Ruby? Where can I read about the authentication of the "Ruby Note"?
I write;
Steve thinks the DPD are Liars ! !
Gil Jesus
> Where can I see the original "note" from "Jack Ruby"? �Has it been
> authenticated by an impartial handwriting expert to prove it is from
> Ruby? �Where can I read about the authentication of the "Ruby Note"?-
Dallas Deputy Sheriff Al Maddox said that Ruby slipped him the note
during a handshake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUiZBmm9xUA
Are you suggesting that
a.) Maddox is a liar, or
b.) that he's mistaken as to who slipped him the note ?
Please provide your evidence of either.
tomnln
Show the nice people where I claimed that Ruby was "Hired to kill Oswald"?
I suspect that you will RUN from addressing these crimes also>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
"Steve" <sahi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1852006c-9c32-4c10...@c19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Steve
> Your being a Terrible student "Disqualifies" you as a teacher Steve;
>
> Show the nice people where I claimed that Ruby was "Hired to kill Oswald"?
>
> I suspect that you will RUN from addressing these crimes also>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gil wrote: Are you suggesting that
a.) Maddox is a liar, or
b.) that he's mistaken as to who slipped him the note ?
Yes I absolutely suggesting that he is lying. This is what serious
scholars MUST assume until evidence is produced to support such a
fantastic claim. Are you, Gil, suggesting that we should BELIEVE
someone who years after the fact comes forth with a non-existent note
(please produce it otherwise for examination) that says Ruby told him
it was a conspiracy? If Tomnin or any other idiots choose to believe
such nonsense that is up to them, but I have spent too many years in
college studying history to fall victim to some scam artist like
that. I cannot believe that ANYONE would believe such a claim without
evidence.
And by the way Gilly, you idiot, it is up to YOU to produce the
evidnce to support your silly claim, it is NOT up to us to prove that
someone is lying. Are you really that stupid? I have a hard time
believing that ANYONE who can turn on a computer can be that dumb.
When YOU prove it I will believe it.
Suppose I produced someone that claimed that Oswald handed him a note
just prior to his murder that said, "I did it alone, there was no
conspiracy." Would YOU believe it at face value? If so then you are
at least consistently stupid, if not then you are at best a hypocrite
demonstrating a double-standard. Which is it Gilly, are you stupid or
are you a hypocrite? There are onlyh those two options at this point.
Martin Shackelford
would be shot. The Dallas officer who received that call recognized Ruby's
voice. You can find him stating this on film in "The Men Who Killed
Kennedy."
Martin
<taral...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:657ac636-1a0e-4774...@s12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Steve
> Both the FBI and the Dallas Police reported receiving warnings that Oswald
> would be shot. The Dallas officer who received that call recognized Ruby's
> voice. You can find him stating this on film in "The Men Who Killed
> Kennedy."
>
> Martin
>
> > > > > > justme wrote;
>
> > > > > > His imagination
>
> > > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > > NOT much of a source there tara;
>
> > > > > > Here's the ONLY time justme referenced
> > > > > > evidence/testimony>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/secret_service_drinking.htm
>
> > > > > > evidence/testimony is Totally Foreign to justme.
>
> > > > > > I suggest you read the WCR's 26 Volumes
> > > > > > The Church Committee's 14 Volumes
> > > > > > The HSCA's 12 Volumes.
> > > > > > The ARRB Report.
>
> > > > > > Until you've read the official records, you'll never know for sure
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > side is Lying to you.
>
> > > > > > I would hate to think you're here with an already preconceived
> > > > > > conclusion.
>
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > tara wrote;
>
> > > > > Mr. Rossley? With all due respect; nothing I have yet read put out
> > > > > by
> > > > > conspiracy people has ever held up to
>
> > > > > I have, several times asked you to provide proof of your comments.
> > > > > You never do so. That in it self is proof of what I am trying to
> > > > > point out to you. For myself, the autopsy report is the definitive
> > > > > argument in this case. Four different commissions and twenty-three
> > > > > forensic pathologists, including Dr. Wecht agree: Two shots, from an
> > > > > elevated position, from behind. Do you dispute this?
>
> > > > > I write;
>
> > > > > SEE>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by NOT keeping up with the
> > > > > subject.
>
> > > > > That's the Disadvantage you're at by reaching Conclusions BEFORE
> > > > > gathering
> > > > > the Facts.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't doubt for a second that there were threats on Oswald's life
this is well established and believable. I highly doubt however that
someone would recognize Jack Ruby's voice especially since prior to
Sunday morning NO ONE would have connected the individuals Jack Ruby
and Lee Harvey Oswald. Maybe my standards of evidence are too
demanding but an individual recognizing someone's voice on the
telephone is NOT highly credible evidence, especially when they don't
come forth with their story until years and years and years later.
The fact that the ONLY place this story appears is in TMWKK makes it
virtually fantasy in my book. This account has to be stored in the
same file as: Beverly Oliver, Ed Hoffman, and Gordon Arnold.
If the lone nut advocates tried to float a theory based entirely on
voice recognition and NOTHING more substantial we would be laughed out
of the room, but when the CT supporters do that very thing we are all
supposed to take seriously their claims without a speck of supporting
evidence.
I don't.
tomnln
tomnln
Steve
> BOTTOM POST;
>
> "Steve" <sahist...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:da31330d-9446-4b6b...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> Billy Grammer said he recognized Ruby's voice because grammer KNEW Ruby ! ! !
>
> SEE>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCb6zfvNsh8
Gilly, This is NOT convincing evidence to me. How do WE know that
they knew one another. This is simply one more person coming forth
with a fantastic story without ANY corroboration. YOU are gullible
enough to believe it but I have a higher standard of proof required.
End of story. The fact that someone gives an interview is not
evidence you idiot. ANYONE can give an interview and make any claim
they want, that doesn't make their claim true. The ONLY people who
believe this nonsense are the "Anbody But Oswald" nuts. They will
believe ANYTHING that points away from Oswald.
tomnln
"Steve" <sahi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5fbe1526-2c4c-4c6f...@j20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
steve wrote;
Gilly, This is NOT convincing evidence to me. How do WE know that
they knew one another. This is simply one more person coming forth
with a fantastic story without ANY corroboration. YOU are gullible
enough to believe it but I have a higher standard of proof required.
End of story. The fact that someone gives an interview is not
evidence you idiot. ANYONE can give an interview and make any claim
they want, that doesn't make their claim true. The ONLY people who
believe this nonsense are the "Anbody But Oswald" nuts. They will
believe ANYTHING that points away from Oswald.
I write;
Gilly had Nothing to do with this thread Steve;
You know less about addressing someone's post than you do about
evidence/testimony.
Had you employed these questions to the WCR, you would be a devout CT'r.
Would you care to address these crimes by the authorities?>>>
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Steve
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point still stands. Voice recognition of Jack Ruby followed by 20
years of silence is NOT strong evidence any more than the alleged
"note" that Ruby handed to a jailhouse worker. These are two silly
claims that only simple-minded people would ever believe. If these
examples were brought in a court of law or written about in a
scholarly historical tome they would be laughed out of the room. If
CT are basing their dreams on an Oswald-Ruby conspiracy on such
ridiculous claims they have lost ALL credibility. The price for
admission to serious Kennedy assassination debate should be common
sense NOT nonsense.
As of this writing 11:21 MDT there has never been a credible
connection established between Oswala dn Ruby.
End of story.
tomnln
My point still stands. Voice recognition of Jack Ruby followed by 20
years of silence is NOT strong evidence any more than the alleged
"note" that Ruby handed to a jailhouse worker. These are two silly
claims that only simple-minded people would ever believe. If these
examples were brought in a court of law or written about in a
scholarly historical tome they would be laughed out of the room. If
CT are basing their dreams on an Oswald-Ruby conspiracy on such
ridiculous claims they have lost ALL credibility. The price for
admission to serious Kennedy assassination debate should be common
sense NOT nonsense.
As of this writing 11:21 MDT there has never been a credible
connection established between Oswala dn Ruby.
End of story
I write;
Simple-Minded people believe in the "Single Bullet Theory".
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/single_bullet.htm
Simple-Minded people believe the Multiple Lies of Officer Baker.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
Simple-Minded people believe Oswald was a Marxist.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
As I stated earlier;
If you get paid for teaching this tripe, you belong in PRISON.
the Rest of the Story;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
curtjester1
> organized crime was the chosen individual to take out Mr. Oswald at
> their behest.
>
> Several questions occur to me.
>
> 1. The scheduled move of Mr. Oswald on November 24th was 10:00 AM.
> Mr. Ruby did not arrive at the Western Union office until
> approximately 11:00 AM. Upon arrival, he, according to the clerk
> waited patiently for assistance. Upon leaving the Western Union
> office, again according to the clerk, casually strolled towards the
> entrance to the police basement some 200 yards away. The time stamp
> on Mr. Rubys money order was 11:17 AM. Assuming it took approximately
> 2 minutes to walk the 200 yards, Mr. Ruby would arrive at about 11:19
> AM. He shot Mr. Oswald at 11:20.
>
> My question to all members is: how do conspiracists reconcile the
> casual attitude of Mr. Ruby and the fact he had no way of knowing Mr.
> Oswald had not yet been transferred? And, would a professional hit
> man have left himself only approximately one minute to arrive at the
> location for his anticipated hit?
>
> Seems very illogical to me.
http://groups.google.com/group/jfkconspiracy/browse_thread/thread/367032367aced82f
CJ