Jack Ruby
David Von Pein
THE SECOND "LONE NUT" ASSASSIN IN DALLAS IN NOVEMBER 1963
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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rubyshot.jpg
http://timesunion.com/photogalleries/jfk/17.jpg
http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/ruby.jpg
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When 52-year-old Jacob L. "Sparky" Rubenstein (more commonly known as
Jack Ruby) stepped out of a group of policemen and reporters in a
Dallas Police Department basement to shoot Presidential assassin Lee
Harvey Oswald on November 24th, 1963, it sparked a whole new wave of
"It Was A Conspiracy" talk with respect to the John F. Kennedy murder
(which Oswald was charged with committing two days before he died at
Ruby's hand).
But when weighing all the evidence surrounding the actions of Jack
Ruby during that November 1963 weekend when President Kennedy was
assassinated, a clear pattern emerges -- and it doesn't add up to
"conspiracy".
Many conspiracy believers endorse the theory that has Ruby "rubbing
out" Oswald at the behest of organized crime figures. But would a
known blabbermouth like Jack Ruby have really been a wise choice for
Oswald's killing, which was a murder that was carried out on live
television all around the United States? Who, then, is going to "rub
out" the person who just eliminated Lee Oswald?
Ruby's stated motives for killing Oswald are somewhat muddled. I can't
deny that. He claimed he shot Oswald to spare First Lady Jacqueline
Kennedy the anguish of having to come back to Dallas for Oswald's
trial. But it has also been claimed that he killed Oswald to show the
world that Jewish people had "guts". (But, then too, it's quite
possible that those two reasons could, indeed, co-exist in tandem.)
Ruby was upset by the "Bernard Weissman" (Jewish) black-bordered anti-
Kennedy ad that appeared in a Dallas newspaper on the morning of
November 22, 1963.
And Ruby even went so far as to take pictures of an "Impeach Earl
Warren" billboard at 5:00 AM on 11/23/63. (The billboard in question
evidently had Weissman's name associated with it in some manner; or at
least Ruby thought Weissman or an anti-Jewish group might be
associated with it.)
Now, if Ruby had been creating a "file" of some kind to use against
Mr. Weissman or against some kind of anti-Jewish organization (via the
photos of the billboard that he took), and he later said he did it to
show everybody that "Jews had guts"....that certainly would indicate
premeditation on Ruby's behalf.
But the way he actually DID kill Oswald certainly does NOT imply any
premeditation whatsoever (e.g., leaving his dog in his car; the
Western Union trip; and not leaving his apartment until AFTER the
previously-announced time for Oswald's transfer from the City Jail
facility).
If Ruby woke up on Sunday morning with the idea in his head of killing
Lee Harvey Oswald at 10:00 AM (which is a time that was later pushed
back by the police), would Ruby have really NOT been in "position" to
do the deed until approximately 11:20 AM that Sunday?
Also -- Would Ruby have really taken his dog with him to a pre-planned
murder? And would he have left that dog in his car under such
circumstances? By all accounts he loved that dog greatly, even
referring to "Sheba" as his "wife". He would never have taken that dog
with him downtown if it was in Ruby's mind to kill Oswald at the
police station that morning.
And would Ruby have really taken the time to stop at the nearby
Western Union office and send a money order to one of his strippers
(who worked at one of his Dallas nightclubs) just a mere four minutes
before casually strolling into the DPD basement to encounter Lee
Oswald? How can CTers possibly reconcile that pesky item?
In my opinion, every single thing about Lee Harvey Oswald's murder by
Jack Ruby spells a "last-minute" and "spur-of-the-moment" act of
violence. And it also spells "deeply personal" on Ruby's part.
It was known that Ruby was distraught and in tears much of that
November weekend. The death of JFK hit him hard. And it's certainly
true that the press was painting just one man as the killer of the
President -- Lee Oswald. (And given the trail of evidence that the
police had to follow, there was no other possible rational and
reasonable conclusion to reach other than that.)
So Ruby was probably thinking like most of America on that Sunday
morning -- he thought this guy Oswald killed his beloved President.
It's, therefore, fairly logical to assume that Ruby hated Oswald's
guts that weekend.
------------------------------
MORE ABOUT THE "TIMING" FACTOR:
What if another customer or two had been in line at Western Union?
Or -- What if Jack had left his apartment just TWO MINUTES later on
November 24th?
Either of the above occurrences would very likely have meant that Ruby
would have missed having the chance to kill Oswald.
Do conspiracy advocates really think the "timing" and the "Western
Union money order" were things that were part of a "ruse" of some
kind....designed to merely throw people off of the "pre-planned
conspiracy" track in the years to come?
Plus.....
What about Karen Carlin (the stripper/dancer who called Jack on the
morning of the 24th and asked for the $25 money order)?*
* = The money needed to be wired to Carlin, btw, because Ruby had
decided to close both of his nightclubs for two or more days in
deference to the assassinated President -- which was a decision Jack
made within hours of JFK's death on Friday.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carlin_k1.htm
Now, when examining Carlin's WC testimony (linked above), we can see
that Karen called Ruby on Saturday for a $5 advance, with Jack then
telling Carlin to call him on Sunday for any additional money she
required (which Carlin needed to pay her rent).
But Jack never told Carlin exactly WHAT TIME on Sunday to call him.
Nor did he confirm on Saturday exactly how much cash to wire her. He
didn't say to her, "call me before 10:00", for example. Nor did he ask
her on Saturday, "how much money do you need?".
So, for all Jack knew on Saturday night, Carlin might be calling him
at 12:00 noon or 2:00 PM on Sunday with the details re. her additional
loan that she needed. If the call had occurred at either of those
times on Sunday...obviously Oswald would have not been shot, because
Jack's trip to Western Union would have occurred after Oswald had been
transferred to the County Jail.
Also, if Carlin hadn't called Ruby on Sunday morning AT ALL (which was
certainly possible for all Jack knew on SATURDAY), the "coincidence
chain" leading to Oswald's death would never have been started in the
first place.
Because if Carlin hadn't called Ruby to ask for that $25 money order,
then Jack would certainly not have had any reason to visit the Western
Union office in downtown Dallas, which was just a block from the City
Jail (where a crowd had formed, which attracted Jack's attention, even
though Ruby thought that Oswald had ALREADY BEEN MOVED by that time).
Now, it's true that Ruby did tell Carlin (on Sunday morning) that he
had intended to go "downtown" sometime on Sunday anyway. But without
Carlin's plea for a money order (necessitating Jack's trip to the
Western Union office), Ruby would almost certainly not have been
exactly where he was in the downtown area at 11:17 AM on Sunday, Nov.
24th.
Do conspiracy buffs think that Karen Carlin was part of some kind of
"plot" or "ruse" or "Mob hit on Oswald" too?
Plus.....
What if Ruby had decided to just loan Carlin $25 out of his own
pocket, which certainly could conceivably have occurred. That scenario
would have meant no Western Union visit needed at all that Sunday.
Plus.....
If Jack hadn't made the decision to close his nightclubs for a few
days (a decision that he made two days before he killed Oswald), then
Karen Carlin would not have had a reason to have the cash "money
ordered" to her (she could have picked up the money at one of the
nightclubs instead, had they been open).
The "happenstance" and "mere coincidence" trail is significant here.
It's either "happenstance", or the most remarkable hunk of
"conspiratorial coordination" I've ever encountered (including little
"Sheba" being left in the car to make things look "spontaneous" in
nature).
This "coordination", if it was a pre-arranged plan, would have to go
all the way down to Karen Carlin's penniless state on November 23rd
and 24th, which is CRITICAL to having Jack Ruby located in the right
place at the right time at 11:21 AM on Sunday, November 24th, 1963.
------------------------------
Another interesting piece of insight into Mr. Ruby's bereaved and very
emotional mindset during that November weekend can be found in the
following portion of Karen Carlin's Warren Commission testimony.....
KAREN CARLIN -- "I reached him {Ruby} at home {on Saturday night, Nov.
23}. He answered the telephone. And I asked Jack if we were going to
be open, and he got very angry and was very short with me. He said,
"Don't you have any respect for the President? Don't you know the
President is dead?" And I said, "Jack, I am sorry. Andrew said that
perhaps we would be open, and I don't have any money, and you know I
am supposed to get paid." And I wanted some money on my pay to get
back home. And he said, "I don't know when I will open. I don't know
if I will ever open back up." And he was very hateful. And he said he
had to come down to the club in about an hour, and for me to wait and
he would see me then. And I hung up and told my husband what had
happened; and we waited and waited, and he didn't show up."
------------------------------
A BRIEF RUBY REVIEW:
1.) Jack Ruby was very upset about the murder of President Kennedy.
2.) Ruby was known to almost always carry a gun on him.
3.) Ruby was friendly with several members of the DPD.
4.) Ruby liked to be "where the action is".
5.) Ruby had a perfectly-reasonable and perfectly-innocent (i.e., "non-
conspiratorial") reason for being where he was (at the Western Union
office near the Dallas City Jail) just minutes before Lee Oswald was
transferred.
6.) Ruby could practically come and go at his own leisure within the
Dallas police stations.
7.) Ruby always dressed rather conservatively (one policeman later
stated: "I never saw Jack when he didn't have on a black suit"),
meaning he could literally "blend in" with other similarly-dressed
plainclothes policemen and reporters in the DPD basement that Sunday
morning.
8.) At 11:21 AM on 11/24/63, Jack Ruby fired one shot from his Colt
Cobra revolver into the gut of Lee Harvey Oswald, resulting in
Oswald's death 106 minutes later.
The above eight items add up to the actions of a second "Lone Nut"
during that dark weekend back in November of 1963.
David Von Pein
March 2006
March 2007
===================================================
RUBY-RELATED WEBLINKS:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/ruby_j1.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/ruby_j2.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0179a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0120b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0199b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0402a.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/aa4da0438b061c60
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby.htm
===================================================
AND I'LL CLOSE BY OFFERING UP THIS ASTUTE QUOTE FROM LAWYER/AUTHOR
VINCENT BUGLIOSI, RELATING TO THE TOPIC OF JACK RUBY:
"But even though neither the CIA nor organized crime would have any
productive motive whatsoever to kill the President, let's make the
unwarranted assumption that they did....that they had such a motive,
and let's go on and discuss Ruby killing Oswald. ....
Mafia contract killers are always selected with utmost care. I mean
the one chosen to kill Oswald would be everything that Jack Ruby was
not. He'd be someone who had a long track record of effectively
carrying out murder contracts before for them. It would be a precise,
unemotional, business-like, and above all, tight-lipped, killer for
hire.
Another point HAS to be mentioned -- It is a well-known fact that
throughout the years organized crime has consistently and religiously
avoided killing public officials....if for no other reason, that they
have enough heat on them already, without significantly INCREASING
that heat by going after a public figure. They don't do it.
Going after the President of the United States -- of all people --
would be a suicidal act on their part....an act guaranteed to bring a
heat upon them not too much less than the surface of the sun. When the
Mob came to this country, they didn't leave their brains behind in
Palermo.
The whole notion of sophisticated groups -- like organized crime, U.S.
Intelligence -- getting Jack Ruby, of all people, to accomplish a job
which, if he talked, would prove fatal to their existence is just
downright laughable." -- VINCENT T. BUGLIOSI; 1986
tomnln
WHY don't you ever use official Citations?
WHY don't you ever address those official records?
Start HERE>>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1175065935.2...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
lazu...@webtv.net
Justice you will see that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and Ruby was
part of the plot from early on..
Bud
Yah, they were lovers to hear some people tell it. Perhaps Ruby
shot Oz in a jealous rage, seeing him cuffed to that butch cop.
tomnln
Wanna address this one Bud?>>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:1175115515.6...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Bud
tomnln wrote:
> That's how you got AIDS.
You think you can get AIDS by shooting someone?
tomnln
Ruby Homo
Bud Homo
Clay Shaw Homo
Faggot Sandwich
With You in the Middle
So you can get it from BOTH ends
Just the way you Like it.
Getting back to evidence/testimony...
Wanna address the Lies of Baker?>>>
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:1175159840.1...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Bud
tomnln wrote:
> WOW, are you Stupid.
>
> Ruby Homo
> Bud Homo
> Clay Shaw Homo
>
> Faggot Sandwich
> With You in the Middle
> So you can get it from BOTH ends
> Just the way you Like it.
That gives me two free hands, don`t you want to imagine cocks in
those, you old pervert?
tomnln
> That gives me two free hands, don`t you want to imagine cocks in
> those, you old pervert?
I didn't think Atheists believed in Confession.
Like I said>>> >> Getting back to evidence/testimony...
>>
>> Wanna address the Lies of Baker?>>>
>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
I KNEW YOU WOULDN'T.
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:1175190611.1...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
YoHarvey
> Like I said>>> >> >> That's how you got AIDS.
>
> > That gives me two free hands, don`t you want to imagine cocks in
> > those, you old pervert?
>
> I didn't think Atheists believed in Confession.
>
> Like I said>>> >> Getting back to evidence/testimony...
>
>
>
> >> Wanna address the Lies of Baker?>>>
> >>http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
>
> I KNEW YOU WOULDN'T.
>
>
> news:1175190611.1...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > tomnln wrote:
> >> WOW, are you Stupid.
>
> >> Ruby Homo
> >> Bud Homo
> >> Clay Shaw Homo
>
> >> Faggot Sandwich
> >> With You in the Middle
> >> So you can get it from BOTH ends
> >> Just the way you Like it.
>
> > That gives me two free hands, don`t you want to imagine cocks in
> > those, you old pervert?
>
> >> Getting back to evidence/testimony...
>
> >> Wanna address the Lies of Baker?>>>
> >>http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
>
> >>news:1175159840.1...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > tomnln wrote:
> >> >> That's how you got AIDS.
>
> >> > You think you can get AIDS by shooting someone?
>
> >> >> Wanna address this one Bud?>>>
> >> >>http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
>
> >> >>news:1175115515.6...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > lazuli...@webtv.net wrote:
> >> >> >> What a friggin' joke if you read Oswald Talked and/or A Farewell To
> >> >> >> Justice you will see that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and Ruby
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> part of the plot from early on..
>
> >> >> > Yah, they were lovers to hear some people tell it. Perhaps Ruby
>
> - Show quoted text -
What a friggin' joke if you read Oswald Talked and/or A Farewell To
Justice you will see that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and Ruby
was
part of the plot from early on..
One of the few people more discredited
than Jim Garrison is Joan Mellen who
authored Farewell to Justice. Her
friendship and admiration for Garrison
has been noted by numerous authors
and discredited Mellon totally. Mellon,
as it turns out was a creative writing
instructor at Temple University and
her book is a great example of
"Creative writing".
tomnln
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175193843.4...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Anthony Marsh
> David Von Pein wrote:
>> JACK RUBY:
>>
>> THE SECOND "LONE NUT" ASSASSIN IN DALLAS IN NOVEMBER 1963
>
>
>
>
> I'm bored, David, so I'll respond. I doubt, however, anyone else will
> take what you've written seriously.
>
>
There was an article in the Nov. 25, 1963 NYT entitled, "Ruby Linked to
Chicago Gangs; Boasted of Knowing Hoodlums."
A couple of the thugs he knew there were Paul Labriola and Paul R.
Jones, who coincidentally moved to Dallas in 1946.
He was also suspected in the death of his co union founder Leon R. Cooke.
And Ruby knew and frequently gambled at an establishment run by Nathan
Gumbin.
Luis Kutner notes that Ruby wanted to become a pipeline in the Senate
rackets committee.
"Mr. Kutner said Ruby became an 'adviser' to the committee.
This article is reprinted in the NYT's Four Days in November, pages 567-569.
> Bugliosi argues Jack Ruby was unreliable, a loose canon, that contract
> killers are selected with the utmost care and the one selected to kill
> Oswald would be everything Jack Ruby was not.
>
> This last statement is typical Bugliosi glib ignorance. With the
> exception of Mafia capo Campisi, Ruby was the most reliable and
> accomplished associate the mob had in Texas. Ruby's impeccable mob
> credentials went back almost 40 years starting as a kid when he was a
> runner for Frank Nitti and Al Capone.
>
> In 1939 Ruby was a suspect in the murder of Teamster financial secretary
> Leon Cooke, a murder Attorney General Robert Kennedy called the event
> that gave the mob its foothold into the teamsters ('The Enemy Within').
> Ruby was in the room when union president Jack Martin shot Cooke.
>
> Of course, Bugliosi doesn't know anything about this because Bugliosi's
> research goes no further than the Warren Report and this wasn't included
> in the Warren Report.
>
> But what was partially revealed in WC was Ruby's active involvement at
> the top levels of the mob for decades.
>
> By the early 50s -- according to FBI reports -- Ruby was clearing large
> shipments of narcotics from Mexico. In fact, so intrigued was the FBI
> with Ruby's wheeling and dealing, they hired him as an informer.
>
> In other words, both the mob and the FBI considered Ruby reliable. But
> don't look for this last item in the Warren Report, it's not there.
> Hoover had it omitted. (Which again is why Bugliosi knows nothing about
> it.)
>
> In 1959 while still working as an FBI informer, Ruby visited mob
> gangster Lewis J. McWillie in Havana. McWillie ran the mob owned
> Tropicana Casino in Havana for Meyer Lansky. Ruby was McWillie's guest
> for eight days.
>
> Then after the revolution the ever resourceful Jack Ruby turns up again
> in Cuba this time to arrange the release from jail of Santos Trafficante.
>
> And, honestly, David, I could go on an on about Ruby's direct
> involvement with people like Trafficante, Marchello, Arcardo, Lansky, et
> al, but by now hopefully it isn't necessary. Which is to say, by the
> time of the Kennedy Assassination, Ruby was one of the most dependable
> and accomplished associates the mob had, the perfect man for the job.
>
> Finally, as to your silliness about how Ruby would never have left his
> dog in the car or bothered to send one of his strippers $25 if he was
> planning to kill Oswald, that kind of drugstore psychoanalysis is not
> worthy of comment, so I wont.
>
> Your other point about how "grief-stricken" Ruby let everyone know he
> was again shows how like Bugliosi, you miss what the man was really up to.
>
> As a lifelong criminal, con man, informant, Ruby well-knew the
> importance of a solid alibi. It was all an act and we know this because
> taking a break from his grief the very night of the assassination, Ruby
> appears in the offices of the Dallas Times Herald laughing and joking
> with the reporters as he clownishly demonstrates his expertise on an
> exercise toy the reporters used to keep in shape.
>
> Then the day before he shoots Oswald Ruby appears at the restaurant of
> Marcello capo Campisi.
>
> Why's that, David? -- to share his grief with Campisi over Kennedy's
> murder? But why with Campisi whose boss, Carlos Marcello, was in court
> that very day on federal charges brought by Robert Kennedy?
>
> And here I'll stop.
>
> Suffice to say, David, you and your hero Bugliosi are so profoundly
> ignorant of the real Jack Ruby it's no wonder you get everything else
> about the assassination ass-backwards too.
>
> ricland
guybann...@aol.com
Yep, indeed.
Moreover, and as shown by (I think) John Armstrong ("Harvey and Lee,"
2003) while "Harvey" was in Russia "Lee" was working with Jack Ruby in
Louisiana, Texas and Florida and shipping guns and ammo to Florida and
then onwards to Cuba; one of Armstrong's many revelations in his
massively-documented book is that Ruby kept a house-cum-arms-depot in
Kemmet (sp?), Texas.
Also, in the early morning hours (around 2:00 am, is I recall) of the
day following the assassination Ruby and "Lee" were seen in the
restaurant below Ruby's Carousel Club. No doubt it was "Lee" who was
also seen on several occasions *in* the Carousel Club with Ruby.
David Von Pein
when it comes to assessing the Jack Ruby situation. But I'd favor the
CTers being the naive group in the "Ruby" regard.
Conspiracy believers are forced to believe in a string of coincidences
that were really "contrivances" evidently, per CTers, in order for
Ruby to have rubbed out a certain Mr. Oswald as part of some pre-
arranged plot.
In addition to a pooch named "Sheba" and the amazing co-inky of having
the "Patsy" HIMSELF delaying his own rendezvous with death by
requesting a change of clothing at the 11th hour just before his
transfer....CTers, by default, are also forced to include Ruby's
nightclub stripper (Karen Carlin) as one of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS.
And I ask -- Is it likely that nightclub employee Karen Carlin was
"in" on a conspiracy plot to kill Lee Oswald?
The conspiracists do, indeed, need Carlin "in" on any plot, due to the
mere fact that it was Carlin's phone call to Jack Ruby on the morning
of November 24th that set the wheels in motion for Ruby to be in the
general area of the police basement at just the proper time to kill
Oswald.
Without Carlin's request for that money order, Jack Ruby would have
had no reason whatsoever to be at that Western Union office in
downtown Dallas (which was just half-a-block away from the city jail
where Oswald was about to be moved).
Yes, Ruby told Carlin that he was going downtown anyway that
morning...but without Carlin's specific request for $25 from her
employer (Ruby), it's very doubtful that Jack would have gone to a
location downtown that would have placed him in very close proximity
of the city jail (where he saw people gathered).
Ruby, at the time he left his apartment at about 11 AM, was of the
opinion that Oswald had ALREADY BEEN TRANSFERRED to the county jail.
But when he got downtown, he saw the crowd near the jail and decided
to have a look-see.
4 minutes is all that separated Jack's Western Union order to Carlin
(stamped "11:17 AM") and the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald (at 11:21
AM).
Ruby being in a position to pull that trigger was via pure ordinary
happenstance. And if the "conspirators" were THAT good, that they
could make a pre-arranged "plot" equate in every way to
"happenstance"....heck, they almost deserve to get away with it.
Because such a beautifully-in-sync, choreographed performance
(including that little "delay" caused by the patsy himself!) is just
too good a performance to be spat upon indeed.
More.....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/77edb3f67ec3350a
RICLAND
Your muddled, look-how-clever-I-am, winking, shit-eating, smirked face
writing reaches its zenith of ridiculous above. You sprinkle it with
hair-brained claims like, "C-ters must believe Sheba the dog and Karen
Carlin were in on it" as if making such claims lends credence to your
convoluted nonsense arguments. In other words you try to affect a
writing technique you have no more skill at than neurosurgery with what
would be the same disastrous results.
Meanwhile, based on your hair-brained logic about Sheba the dog and
Karen Carlin the stripper, you ignore Ruby's life-long association with
the mob as well as everything he said about why he killed Oswald just
before he died.
Did you get this hair-brained logic from Bugliosi?
If so, we are not surprised.
ricland
--
Reclaiming History ...???
The Rebuttal to Bugliosi's JFK Assassination Book
http://jfkhit.com
David Von Pein
That phone call from the stripper was the ONLY reason Ruby was in
close proximity to the jail at 11:20 AM on 11/24/63. The ONLY reason.
To believe otherwise is to be a CT-Kook. Do you qualify?
>>> "The transfer {of Oswald to the county jail} was not going to take place until Ruby got there and Ruby knew that, that's a no-brainer." <<<
Prove it.
>>> "Ruby would not have brought a gun with him just to wire some money to one of his dancers." <<<
Sure he would. And obviously he did just that. Ruby regularly carried
a gun when he carried large sums of money that he deposited for his
two nightclubs.
Ruby had approx. $2,000 on him when he killed Oswald (plus he had
another $1,000 locked in the trunk of his car just before entering the
jail basement).
>>> "We have a saying in the catholic school about people like you, DVP -- "If the ignorant were blessed you would be a saint"." <<<
Yeah....the same thing Father John Majeski (whose car received $14
worth of damage in the very funny "cling peaches in heavy syrup"
episode) said to Archie Bunker. Cute.
Majeski (nicely portrayed by Barnard Hughes) was a Catholic, btw.
>>> "In case you're wondering what I'm doing up so late, there is no school this week and my folks are sleeping." <<<
I wasn't wondering.
But sans your regular classes at "Conspiracy P.S. #217" this week, why
not try reading some stuff on the case that actually contains some
hard evidence for a change? Couldn't hurt.
You might start with the bottom of Page 354 of the WCR, which gives
you an idea as to why Jack Ruby carried a gun with him on November 24,
1963.
Here's that page so you won't have to bother searching for it.....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0189b.htm
Raymond
>
> read more »
Where was Jack Ruby at 12:31 on Nov. 22, 1963 ?
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=519986
David Von Pein
I like watching the exuding foam.
RICLAND
>> A BRIEF RUBY REVIEW:
>>
>> 1.) Jack Ruby was very upset about the murder of President Kennedy.
>>
>> 2.) Ruby was known to almost always carry a gun on him.
>>
>> 3.) Ruby was friendly with several members of the DPD.
>>
>> 4.) Ruby liked to be "where the action is".
>>
>> 5.) Ruby had a perfectly-reasonable and perfectly-innocent (i.e., "non- ...
>>
>> read more �
>
> Where was Jack Ruby at 12:31 on Nov. 22, 1963 ?
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=519986
>
Ruby was a mob henchman who had been mixed-up with a mob-ordered
political murder before in Chicago. He has a documented visit to Havana
where he met jailed mob boss Santos Trafficante. He was engaged in
prostitution something he could not do in mob controlled Dallas without
the approval of Marcello. He visited the Dallas mob under-boss at his
nightclub the day before he shot Oswald. And finally, just before he
died he told reporters the JFK assassination was a "complete conspiracy."
All of these things are documented not speculative like the why and
wherefore of his leaving his dog in his car or wiring a stripper $25.
All of these things would indicate that if he was acting on the orders
of the mob he would have done the things you mention to provide himself
a cover.
Finally, there's nothing speculative about Ruby telling Earl Warren his
life was in danger and that he could only tell what he knew if he was
brought to Washington, DC. You can't have it both ways. If you're going
to quote Ruby than quote Ruby -- all of Ruby.
Walt
> Many people seem to feel that it's the LNers who are the naive ones
> when it comes to assessing the Jack Ruby situation. But I'd favor the
> CTers being the naive group in the "Ruby" regard.
>
> Conspiracy believers are forced to believe in a string of coincidences
> that were really "contrivances" evidently, per CTers, in order for
> Ruby to have rubbed out a certain Mr. Oswald as part of some pre-
> arranged plot.
>
> In addition to a pooch named "Sheba" and the amazing co-inky of having
> the "Patsy" HIMSELF delaying his own rendezvous with death by
> requesting a change of clothing at the 11th hour just before his
> transfer....CTers, by default, are also forced to include Ruby's
> nightclub stripper (Karen Carlin) as one of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS.
Duh....Ruby thought he could murder Oswald and be treated as a hero.
His buddies on the Dallas Police force ( Henry Wade) him that they
would like to kill Oswald themselves but they couldn't do it without
raising an instant outcry of, cover up, in the assassination of JFK.
Ruby was stupid enough to believe he could murder Oswald and be
released on a small bail, and be treated as a hero. He was just
another patsy.....
Since Ruby was standing by near the Western Union office awaiting the
signal that Oswald was being transfered, it was no big deal for him to
slip into the basement of the police station in time to shoot Oswald.
Walt
Walt
> >>> "DVP, the {telephone} call from the stripper {Mrs. Karen Carlin} had nothing to do with Ruby going downtown to shoot Oswald." <<<
>
> That phone call from the stripper was the ONLY reason Ruby was in
> close proximity to the jail at 11:20 AM on 11/24/63. The ONLY reason.
> To believe otherwise is to be a CT-Kook. Do you qualify?
Nonsense.... The Western Union money order to Karen Carlin was nothing
but an alibi to make it look like Ruby acted on impulse and not
premeditation. He was convinced ( by who?) that a jury would never
convict him because they would see the murder of Oswald as the act of
a real patriot who had lost is mind momentarily.
Walt
Walt
>
> That phone call from the stripper was the ONLY reason Ruby was in
> close proximity to the jail at 11:20 AM on 11/24/63. The ONLY reason.
> To believe otherwise is to be a CT-Kook. Do you qualify?
>
> >>> "The transfer {of Oswald to the county jail} was not going to take place until Ruby got there and Ruby knew that, that's a no-brainer." <<<
>
> Prove it.
>
> >>> "Ruby would not have brought a gun with him just to wire some money to one of his dancers." <<<
>
> Sure he would. And obviously he did just that. Ruby regularly carried
> a gun when he carried large sums of money that he deposited for his
> two nightclubs.
>
> Ruby had approx. $2,000 on him when he killed Oswald (plus he had
> another $1,000 locked in the trunk of his car just before entering the
> jail basement).
Ruby had the cash on him because In Texas it was legal to carry a
concealed gun if a person was carrying at least $2000.00
on his person. The cash gave him a legal excuse to carry the gun.
He never had that cash on him on Friday night when he had the gun in
his pocket at the time of Oswald's silent press "conference". Ruby
would have shot Oswald at the midnight press conference if he had been
able to get close enough to Oswald, but he could not force his way to
the front of the crowd of reporters. The fact that he had that gun in
his pocket on friday is a strong indication that the murder of Oswald
was PREMEDITATED murder.
Walt
Walt
> >> JACK RUBY:
>
> >> A BRIEF RUBY REVIEW:
>
> >> 1.) Jack Ruby was very upset about the murder of President Kennedy.
>
> >> 2.) Ruby was known to almost always carry a gun on him.
>
> >> 3.) Ruby was friendly with several members of the DPD.
>
> >> 4.) Ruby liked to be "where the action is".
>
> >> 5.) Ruby had a perfectly-reasonable and perfectly-innocent (i.e., "non- ...
>
>
> > Where was Jack Ruby at 12:31 on Nov. 22, 1963 ?
>
>
> Ruby was a mob henchman who had been mixed-up with a mob-ordered
> political murder before in Chicago. He has a documented visit to Havana
> where he met jailed mob boss Santos Trafficante. He was engaged in
> prostitution something he could not do in mob controlled Dallas without
> the approval of Marcello. He visited the Dallas mob under-boss at his
> nightclub the day before he shot Oswald. And finally, just before he
> died he told reporters the JFK assassination was a "complete conspiracy."
>
> All of these things are documented not speculative like the why and
> wherefore of his leaving his dog in his car or wiring a stripper $25.
> All of these things would indicate that if he was acting on the orders
> of the mob he would have done the things you mention to provide himself
> a cover.
You seem to be unwilling to put the responsibility where it truely
lies. You point the finger at the "mob" because everybody recognizes
that the "mob" is an evil, criminal entity. In reality the real
villian's carried the credentials of the DPD.
They were members of the DPD who associated with the "mob" through
Jack Ruby, which in essence made them mobsters them selves. Hell,
that's not at all uncommon....many big cities have cops who associate
with mobsters..and J. Edna Hoover himself associated with mobsters.
Walt
>
> Finally, there's nothing speculative about Ruby telling Earl Warren his
> life was in danger and that he could only tell what he knew if he was
> brought to Washington, DC. You can't have it both ways. If you're going
> to quote Ruby than quote Ruby -- all of Ruby.
>
> ricland
>
> --
> Reclaiming History ...???
> The Rebuttal to Bugliosi's JFK Assassination Bookhttp://jfkhit.com- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
Ruby was a Dallas Police Informant
Ruby was an FBI Informant
Ruby was a Gunrunner for the CIA
Ruby was an informant for Nixon
"RICLAND" <black...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Nq-dncPQ5MQM7K3b...@comcast.com...
Walt
> >>> "DVP, the {telephone} call from the stripper {Mrs. Karen Carlin} had nothing to do with Ruby going downtown to shoot Oswald." <<<
>
> That phone call from the stripper was the ONLY reason Ruby was in
> close proximity to the jail at 11:20 AM on 11/24/63. The ONLY reason.
> To believe otherwise is to be a CT-Kook. Do you qualify?
>
> >>> "The transfer {of Oswald to the county jail} was not going to take place until Ruby got there and Ruby knew that, that's a no-brainer." <<<
>
> Prove it.
Lt. Woodrow Wiggins testified that he had received a call from the
third floor where Oswald was being questioned, and notified that
Oswald was being brought down on the elevator. Wiggins was in charge
of the basement security detail and he knew that the basement was NOT
secure because reporters were not where they had been ordered to stay
( behind the steel handrails) and people were pushing and shoving the
cops that were there to protect Oswald. All he would have had to do
was say the basement was NOT secure ( meaning Ruby wasn't there yet)
and the transfer would have been postponed until Ruby was there.
Walt
Raymond
The Warren Commission claims that Ruby entered the basement of the
station via the Main Street ramp. He did not. He entered the building
through a side door that is not less than fifty feet from the Dpoor of
the Western Union building It is still there.
Why would Jack say that he entered the basement of the jail via the
ramp if he entered the building by another entrance? What difference
would it make? Everyone knows that he was in the basement and shot
Oswald.
There is no genuine evidence, other than Jack's own story, that he
entered via the ramp. If there is, I sure would like to see it. Even
the Warren Wizards doubted the tall tale. After claiming that Ruby
entered the basement by way of the ramp, the Report adds:
Although the sum of the available evidence tends to support Ruby's
claim that
he entered the Main Street ramp, there is other evidence not
consistent with Ruby's story. If Ruby entered by any other means, he
would have had to pass through the Police and Courts Building, and
then secondly through one of the five doors into the basement, all of
which, according to the testimony of police officers were secured .
The testimony was not completely positive about one of the doors.
(Report, pp. 221-222)
Both the police and the Commission were concerned about the one door.
But they were careful not to investigate the issue to a positive
conclusion because it would almost surely implicate one or more
members of the Dallas police force.
The door in question was near the passenger elevator that opens into
the Municipal Building.
"Despite the thoroughness with which the search was conducted, there
still existed one and perhaps two weak points in controlling access to
the garage. Testimony did not resolve positively whether or not the
stairway door near the public elevators was locked both from the
inside and outside as was necessary to secure it effectively. "
(Report. p. 212)
In his book Conspiracy, Anthony Summers deals with this particular
door:
"In 1979, the Assassination Committee rejected the old story that
Ruby got in down the ramp from the street. Following its own research
on the spot, it plumped instead for a brand-new hypothesis. The
Committee found that Ruby could have got into the basement by slipping
down an alleyway at the side of the police station. In the middle of
the alley is a door opening onto the ground floor of the building
which houses the police station, and from there Ruby could have
reached the basement. It was a far less conspicuous means of entry
than the ramp route and therefore a better choice for a premeditated
approach. The Committee had to consider whether, if he indeed took
this route. Ruby would have been stopped by a locked internal door
leading to the basement. On this point, it once again encountered the
ubiquitous voice of Sergeant (Patrick) Dean. It turned out that he had
vascillated in his statements as to whether the door could be opened
from the outside. On one occasion he had not answered the question and
then said he had been assured by the maintenance man that the door was
secure from both sides. Two maintenance men and a porter said the
opposite. They asserted it could be opened without using a key, from
the direction Ruby would have entered." ( p. 469, 1991 edition)
The Warren Report provides us with a diagram of the basement of the
Dallas Police Building (CE 2179), which shows the three elevators
opening into the garage, and the steps, by the elevators that Ruby
would have used to gain entrance to the basement. They do not however
provide a floor plan of the main floor that would show the alleyway
door that Jack surely used to enter the building.
COMM EX 2179
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0435a.htm
The truth about the door can be seen by anyone who visits the corner
of Pearl and Main streets, in Dallas. Standing in front of the former
Western Union Office Building, the door to the Municipal Building can
be seen . It is less than a child's stone throw away from the door to
the Western Union. Additonally, there are over 20 windows on the side
of the Municipal Building that could have been used to signal Jack
that the transfer was in progress.
I wrote an article in PROBE. March-April, 1999 titled Ruby and the
Ramp. I included pictures of the scene showing the door to the side of
the police building and the front of the Western Union Office. Perhaps
Probe could provide a copy of the article.
>From the Chairman's Desk at PROBE Magazine:
"Raymond Galllagher explores the mystery of how Jack Ruby made it so
easily and conveniently into the basement of the Dallas jail with such
exquisite timing. As they say, a picture is worth a rhousand words."
A book, No More Silence, written by Larry A . Sneed, provides more
information on the subject. I will leave that to interested people to
read , but it is convincing evidence that Ruby entered by way of the
door I described.
The Sneed witnesses include police officers, deputy sheriffs, and
government officials.
Before anyone begins to write negative posts about the contents of
this effort, make sure that you have exhausted your own research. Few
still believe that Jack entered via the ramp.
ONE MORE TIME
Hopefully, I will use witness testimony to support the proposition
that Jack Ruby did not enter the basement of the police building by
way of the Main Street ramp. At least three of the police officers
told Larry Sneed, author of No More Silence, that Ruby undoubtedly
entered the basement via the alleyway doors that ran north and south
alongside the Western Union office.
Officer Roy Vaughn, who was assigned to guard the top of the Main
Street ramp told Sneed: "There was a stairway that went from the first
floor down to the basement out of the Municipal Building." Vaughn
said , " Very easily somebody could have gone to the back door, which
is still there today, opened the door, let somebody in, walked
straight and come right into the basement. It wouldn't have been a
problem."
The officer explained that, in 1963, there were two possibilities to
enter the basement. There was a business college and a cafe NEXT to
the Western Union. They have since been torn down, ...
Is it important how Ruby entered the police building to shoot Oswald?
Maybe not. On the other hand, why would Jack say he went down the
ramp? If he entered the building from some other entrance, he could
have admitted it. The result was the same-he was able to accomplish
his objective. However, if he was in touch with someone from the
police department, who was providing him with information about the
transfer and aided him in getting into the basement, then there was a
reason to lie. Ruby, a long time friend of many members of
the department, would not want to reveal the truth about their
assistance.
"The rulers of the state are the only ones that should have the
priviledge of lying, either at home or abroad; they may be allowed to
lie for the good of the state."
---- Plato: The Republic
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/77edb3f67ec3350a- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
Guess what, folks? Walt has mangled the true facts in the
case....again!
Surprise!
OK, Walt -- How did Ruby manage to get Karen Carlin to call him at
about 10 AM Sunday morning and ask for money, in order to set up this
nifty Western Union "alibi"? Is Carlin a "plotter" too? (You never did
say.)
Ever read Carlin's testimony? I suggest you do. Because without Carlin
in the picture, Ruby doesn't need to go to the Western Union office at
all.
Read....