>>> "The bullet which caused the neck wound in Kennedy was fired from the front and never left the body. His back wound and neck wound are separate wounds." <<<

Oh, come now, Bill. That would mean we'd have TWO mysterious
"disappearing" bullets, instead of just Wecht's one vanishing missile
that exited JFK's throat.

TWO bullets going into JFK but not exiting---and then NEITHER bullet
is found or recovered?? That's even more ridiculous than Dr. Cyril
Wecht's theory.

And, in fact, the "2 Vanishing Bullets In JFK" theory is something I
wish Vincent Bugliosi would have mentioned more often in his many 2007
radio interviews, because it would have served his purposes even
better than just highlighting Wecht's theory.

But Vince kept thinking that most conspiracy theorists are like Dr.
Wecht (i.e., believing in just ONE disappearing bullet), when in fact
most CTers are just like you, Bill -- they believe in a theory that's
even more improbable than Wecht's silliness.

http://Bugliosi-Vs-Wecht.blogspot.com

>>> "Why is it silly or improbable? .... Nothing mysterious at all about these two bullets. No one is saying they were NEVER recovered. Hidden? Maybe. All the doctors at Parkland claimed that the throat wound was one of entry." <<<

JFK's entire body was X-rayed at autopsy, and no bullets were found in
his body. The only reasonable conclusion is that the bullet that hit
his upper back exited his throat. And that's exactly what the three
autopsy doctors concluded (at 2 H 364):

ARLEN SPECTER -- "Did you search the body to determine if there was
any bullet inside the body?"

DR. JAMES J. HUMES -- "Before the arrival of Colonel Finck, we had
made X-rays of the head, neck, and torso of the President, and the
upper portions of his major extremities, or both his upper and lower
extremities. At Colonel Finck's suggestion, we then completed the X-
ray examination by X-raying the President's body in toto, and those X-
rays are available."

MR. SPECTER -- "What did those X-rays disclose with respect to the
possible presence of a missile in the President's body?"

DR. HUMES -- "They showed no evidence of a missile in the President's
body at any point. And these were examined by ourselves and by the
radiologist, who assisted us in this endeavor."

MR. SPECTER -- "What conclusion, if any, did you reach as to whether
point "D" on 385 was the point of entrance or exit?"

DR. HUMES -- "We concluded that this missile depicted in 385 "C",
which entered the President's body, traversed the President's body and
made its exit through the wound observed by the physicians at Parkland
Hospital and later extended as a tracheotomy wound."

2 H 364:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0186b.htm

CE385:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0501a.htm

---------------

BTW, the fibers on the front side of JFK's shirt were pointed OUTWARD,
compatible with an exiting bullet, not an entrance wound.

And Dr. Malcolm Perry said that the throat wound could be "either" an
entry or an exit (at 3 H 373):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0191a.htm

>>> "I'd love to read where you read that the fibers were pointed "outward" on Kennedy's clothing." <<<

It's common knowledge, Bill.

Here's a passage concerning the subject from Vincent Bugliosi's JFK
book:

"Not seen by the three pathologists until they testified to the
Warren Commission in 1964, the president's clothing would have
confirmed that the bullet had exited at the throat. In a 1965
memorandum describing his examination of the clothing, Finck
wrote..."immediately below the upper button of the front [of the
president's shirt] is a bullet hole perforating both flaps of the
shirt, right and left. There is dry blood on the margins of both
holes. The innermost hole reveals fibers directed outward, which
indicates an exit perforation. The outermost hole also shows this
outward orientation of the bloody shirt fibers, but to a lesser
extent." [end Finck quote]

"In the FBI's laboratory examination of the hole in the shirt
shortly after the assassination, investigators too found that the
"fibers of the cloth" were "protruding outward," characteristic of an
exit hole for a projectile." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 400-401 of
"Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F.
Kennedy" (c.2007)

---------------

Bugliosi's sources for the above information are as follows:

AFIP [Armed Forces Institute of Pathology] Record
205-10001-10002, Memorandum, Finck to Blumberg, p.7.

5 H 60-61, WCT Robert A. Frazier; CD 205, p.154; FBI Record
124-10024-10173.

---------------

To expand upon Robert Frazier's Warren Commission testimony regarding
President Kennedy's clothing, we also find this on page 61 of WC
Volume 5:

ROBERT A. FRAZIER -- "In each instance for these holes, the one
through the button line and the one through the buttonhole line, the
hole amounts to a ragged slit approximately one-half inch in height.
It is oriented vertically, and the fibers of the cloth are protruding
outward, that is, have been pushed from the inside out. I could not
actually determine from the characteristics of the hole whether or not
it was caused by a bullet. However, I can say that it was caused by a
projectile of some type which exited from the shirt at that point and
that is again assuming that when I first examined the shirt it had not
been altered from the condition it was in at the time the hole was
made."

---------------

Many conspiracy theorists are more than willing to assume, however,
that Bob Frazier of the Federal Bureau of Investigation was lying his
ass off when he said what he said to the Warren Commission above --
or, as an alternative to advance the notion that the Single-Bullet
Theory is a crock of shit, those same conspiracy theorists are willing
to theorize that the fibers of JFK's shirt were altered by someone
before Mr. Frazier of the FBI examined the shirt, in order to make it
look like a bullet had exited from the President's throat.

But regardless of what the conspiracists want to believe, Robert
Frazier's testimony about the fibers of Kennedy's shirt "protruding
outward" is still going to be in the official record for all time,
right here:

5 H 61:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh5/html/WC_Vol5_0036a.htm

>>> "If you watched the video I sent the link on, Connally's attending surgeon basically, and without knowing it, admits that CE 399 was planted on the stretcher that Tomlinson found it on in Parkland. If a surgeon removes a bullet from a patient's thigh, it would be passed on to the authorities as evidence. It could not have ended up underneath a mattress on a random stretcher. At best, we have an extra bullet in the equation which would also prove a conspiracy." <<<

You're right about one thing -- if a bullet had been recovered from
Governor Connally's thigh, it most certainly WOULD have made it into
the hands of the authorities on November 22, 1963. Which is one of the
best reasons we have to know that NO BULLET at all was removed from
Connally's leg at Parkland Hospital.

The only bullet in the official record of this case that can be
connected in any way to the wounding of John Connally is CE399, which
was found on a stretcher by Darrell Tomlinson prior to 2:00 PM CST on
11/22/63 (at a time, btw, when no conspirators who might have been
bent on planting a bullet in the hospital could have possibly known if
JFK or Connally still had bullets in their bodies, making the idea of
planting ANY bullet on ANY stretcher at Parkland simply too foolish to
consider--unless they WANTED their plot to possibly be exposed almost
immediately).

We can be confident that no bullet at all was found inside Governor
Connally's body by any of the doctors or nurses at Parkland Hospital,
and the reason we can be confident of that fact is because one of
Connally's own surgeons, Dr. Charles F. Gregory, told us so (at 4 H
125):

DR. GREGORY -- "We were disconcerted by not finding a missile at all.
Here was our patient with three discernible wounds, and no missile
within him of sufficient magnitude to account for them, and we
suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other areas
where he had been to see if it could be identified or found, rather."

4 H 125:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0067a.htm

---------------

Plus: I always like to point out to conspiracy promoters the following
testimony of Darrell C. Tomlinson, the person who found CE399 on the
stretcher at Parkland. In his WC testimony, it couldn't be any clearer
that Tomlinson just simply was not sure which of the two stretchers in
question he had taken off of the elevator shortly before he found a
bullet on one of those stretchers.

And Tomlinson emphasizes his uncertainty not just once--he does so
FIVE SEPARATE TIMES during this brief section of his Warren Commission
questioning (which can be found at 6 H 132):

ARLEN SPECTER -- "What did you tell the Secret Service man about which
stretcher you took off of the elevator?"

DARRELL TOMLINSON -- "I told him that I was not sure, and I am not--
I'm not sure of it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath
which I took a while ago, because I am definitely not sure."

MR. SPECTER -- "Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man
which stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the
elevator, but then when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for
sure, I really don't remember." ....

MR. SPECTER -- "You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure
whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the
elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of
it, whether it was A or B that I took off."

6 H 132:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0071b.htm

---------------

The Single-Bullet Theory is as true and logical today as it was in
1963 and 1964. Any other theory that conspiracy believers use to try
and knock the SBT out of contention only makes the SBT look stronger
and stronger as time goes on. Such as the alternate idea that TWO
separate bullets went into JFK's upper back and throat and never
exited, with both of those bullets then going AWOL.

Is that type of alternative theory REALLY supposed to be more
reasonable than the single-bullet conclusion? If so, then we're living
in a crazy, mixed-up world.

Thanks for writing, William.

Regards,
David Von Pein

http://The-JFK-Assassination.blogspot.com

http://Single-Bullet-Theory.blogspot.com

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Jun 8, 2010, 10:44:35 PM6/8/10

http://Amazon.com/review/R1CFXMFXOPBNZ/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&cdMsgNo=2&cdPage=1&asin=B00192T8K6&store=dvd&cdSort=oldest&cdMsgID=Mx3MUFVJQMA4J7U#Mx3MUFVJQMA4J7U

AT AMAZON.COM, KRISTIN N. FOYLE SAID:

>>> "Davey Von Pein is a disinformation artist. This video [A PIECE OF JUNK CALLED "EVIDENCE OF REVISION", REVIEWED HERE: http://Amazon.com/review/R1CFXMFXOPBNZ] is must-have material. Anyone out there searching for valuable material in the genre should consider a 'diss' from Davey V.P. a measure for how excellent a video, or book, actually is. To quote Jim DiEugenio, "He is an inverse barometer". He should be thrown in the trash bin with Bugliosi and McAdams. They are not to be believed." <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Since she mentions James DiEugenio in her comment above, Kristin N.
Foyle is very likely a firm believer in the policy of throwing out all
of the best evidence in the JFK case (i.e., every last piece of
physical evidence, which all points directly at Kristin's and
DiEugenio's favorite patsy, of course).

I have no idea how these conspiracy kooks think they can possibly come
even close to solving this double murder case (including Tippit's
murder too) when they've seen fit to toss every last piece of evidence
in the fire, including the evidence of OSWALD'S OWN ACTIONS before and
after the assassination, which are actions that advertise Lee Harvey
Oswald's guilt as effectively as a neon sign with the words "I'm
Guilty!" printed on it.

Naturally, all kooks want to ignore Oswald's own actions, so that they
can feel better about attempting to exonerate an obvious double-
murderer.

DiEugenio is a perfect example of this. He either totally ignores or
severely distorts and misrepresents Oswald's highly incriminating pre-
and post-assassination actions and movements. I fully expect DiEugenio
to soon spout a theory about Oswald having really been on a freighter
in the Pacific at 12:30 PM on November 22, 1963, instead of being
located in the Texas School Book Depository at the time of President
Kennedy's murder.

After all, Jim already has endorsed portions of one of the silliest
books ever published ("Harvey And Lee" by John Armstrong), so
pretending Oswald was really somewhere other than Dallas on November
22 isn't really a very big step for DiEugenio to take.

For people who have already been brainwashed by the Conspiracy Fever
that has been spread by super-kooks like John Armstrong, travelling
deeper into delirium isn't uncommon at all. In fact, it's to be
expected.

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2009/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio.html

David Von Pein

unread,

Jun 14, 2010, 12:08:19 PM6/14/10

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/bd3eff93a475ef6f

JOHN McADAMS SAID:

>>> "My Server is unavailable. Network Problems at Marquette. Both my news server and my web server are, at the moment, unavailable, due to network problems at Marquette." <<<

GRIZZLIE ANTAGONIST SAID (IN A TONGUE-IN-CHEEK MANNER, I WOULD ASSUME,
SINCE "GRIZZLIE" IS A GRIZZLED LNer BY TRADE):

>>> "Shouldn't your CIA masters be making sure that your news server and web server are working like a well-oiled machine? You must have given them some hint that you were thinking of leaving the reservation and this is their way of warning you." <<<

JOHN McADAMS SAID:

>>> "Right. I was planning to announce that I have iron-clad evidence of a conspiracy!" <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Me too. I've recently discovered the smoking gun:

Garland Slack shot JFK.

I kept telling the DPD in '63 to "pick up the Slack"; but they
apparently didn't understand what I meant.

So, Garland got off scot-free.

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

unread,

Jun 18, 2010, 5:24:42 AM6/18/10

http://BlackOpRadio.com/black479c.ram

Veteran conspiracy nut Robert J. Groden was a guest on Black Op Radio
on June 17, 2010 [linked above].

Groden says he was arrested in Dealey Plaza for the 81st time. So he
wanted to go on Osanic's Retard Radio program and try to win the
sympathy of the three Black Op listeners.

Anyway, while continuing to peddle his "Oswald Was Just A Patsy" line
of garbage, Groden proved to me (twice) during his June 17th Black Op
Radio appearance that he has no interest in "the truth" concerning the
JFK assassination whatsoever.

How can I know this for a fact?

Because on two separate occasions on June 17th he propped up the
HSCA's declaration of conspiracy as if that conclusion was still
completely valid and worthy of consideration.

But Groden has got to know that the NAS totally demolished the only
evidence of the HSCA's conspiracy conclusion--the bogus Dictabelt
evidence--but he still harps on the HSCA's conspiracy scenario as if
he wasn't even aware that it has been torn to shreds since 1979.

And that's a man who says he's in Dealey Plaza fighting for "the
truth" every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (weather permitting).

And Mr. Groden is a man who also said during his 6/17/10 Black Op
interview that he doesn't deal with "theories" or his "personal
opinions" when it comes to his research surrounding the JFK case.

My funny bone was tickled pink by that statement by Robert "Up To 10
Shots Were Fired At JFK" Groden.

I wonder what Groden's SEVEN EXTRA GUNSHOTS would be considered--if
not "theory" and "personal opinion"? Because those seven extra shots
sure as heck aren't based on something called THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE in
the case.

But, I guess when you've been an "Anybody But Oswald" type of
conspiracy kook for more than 30 years (as Groden has), it becomes
easier and easier to ignore all of the evidence in the whole case.

Old habits, as they say, die hard.

http://The-Killing-Of-A-President.blogspot.com

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Jun 22, 2010, 12:59:13 AM6/22/10

Two more gems from Bud that are destined for my Quotes blog:

"When you are desperate enough, and you scour the evidence
thinking real hard how each thing could be fishy or suspicious, you
will come to the conclusion that everything you look at is fishy and
suspicious. It's inevitable." -- Bud; June 21, 2010

---------------

"CTers are free to imagine all kinds of evidence that went
uncollected that would have shown Oswald to be innocent. They just
can't produce this evidence, but it seems that being able to imagine
it is good enough for them." -- Bud; June 21, 2010

http://Quoting-Common-Sense.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

unread,

Jun 23, 2010, 2:29:24 AM6/23/10

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15921&view=findpost&p=195854

http://JFKAssassinationForum.com/index.php/topic,2555.msg50845.html#msg50845

Jim DiEugenio said this at The Education Forum:

>>> "My whole question is simply this: Does [Mike] Williams think that CE 399 is the bullet turned over by Wright and Tomlinson to the Secret Service? Everything else to me is sort of deliberate DVP type trolling i.e. obfuscation. If he actually believes, like DVP does, that that is the case, then there is no point in continuing the argument. Since that is just not tenable any more, at least outside the confines of McAdams, DVP and Reclaiming History. Anybody who does so is in denial of the facts and evidence. That is they are theorizing with no evidence to back them up." <<<

I love it.

Once again, in the topsy-turvy world of conspiracy theorists, night
has been turned into day. In other words, the people who accept the
Warren Commission's AND the HSCA's identical conclusions that CE399
was the bullet that passed through both JFK and John Connally are the
ones who are really doing the "theorizing". And the conspiracists
(like DiEugenio) are the ones who are dealing in "facts and evidence".

In (more) other words -- the people like DiEugenio who have conjured
up in their imaginations all sorts of cloak-and-dagger stuff connected
with Bullet CE399, such as the bullet either being "planted" on a
stretcher at Parkland or "substituted" for the real stretcher bullet,
are NOT doing any "theorizing" at all regarding those kinds of
unsupportable allegations of evidence-tampering and massive misconduct
by the authorities.

In the upside-down conspiracy universe, people like DiEugenio are
really the ones who have undeniable SUPPORT and PROOF for their vile
allegations that Bullet CE399 is a total fake and a sham.

It doesn't matter at all to people like James DiEugenio that BOTH the
Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations
considered CE399 to be a legitimate and valid piece of evidence
connected with the murder of President Kennedy and the wounding of
Governor Connally.

Such a dual determination concerning Commission Exhibit 399 by BOTH of
the official U.S. Government investigative committees that were
assigned to look into JFK's murder, 14 years apart, is evidently
supposed to be considered a DUAL LIE, according to people like James
"Oswald Shot Nobody" DiEugenio.

And the HSCA being supportive of such an alleged lie regarding CE399
is absolutely incredible, not to mention laughable, considering the
fact that Bob Blakey's Committee was desperate to find a "conspiracy"
associated with JFK's murder. Blakey's boys would have had every
reason under the sun to align themselves with the Jim DiEugenios of
the world and therefore pronounce CE399 to be a completely unreliable
piece of evidence.

Why didn't the HSCA do that very thing, Jim, if that bullet is so
obviously a phony (as you insist it is)?

Plus, there's the Warren Commission testimony of Darrell Tomlinson,
the man who found the bullet on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital.
Tomlinson told Arlen Specter and the Commission at least TEN separate
times that he was uncertain as to which of the two stretchers in
question he took off of the elevator on 11/22/63. TEN times he says
words like "not sure" or "I wouldn't say for sure" or "I really don't
remember" or "I can't be positive or positively sure".

This testimony, of course, means nothing to people like Jim DiEugenio:

ARLEN SPECTER -- "What did you tell the Secret Service man about which
stretcher you took off of the elevator?"

DARRELL TOMLINSON -- "I told him that I was not sure, and I am not--
I'm not sure of it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath
which I took a while ago, because I am definitely not sure."

MR. SPECTER -- "Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man
which stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the
elevator, but then when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for
sure, I really don't remember."

[...]

MR. SPECTER -- "You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure
whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the
elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of
it, whether it was A or B that I took off."

[...]

MR. SPECTER -- "You think, then, that this could have been either, you
took out of the elevator as you sit here at the moment, or you just
can't be sure?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "It could be, but I can't be positive or positively
sure. I think it was A, but I'm not sure. .... I'm not sure whether it
was A I took off."

MR. SPECTER -- "But did you tell the Secret Service man which one you
thought it was you took off of the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "I'm not clear on that--whether I absolutely made a
positive statement to that effect."

MR. SPECTER -- "You told him that it could have been B you took off of
the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "That's right."

MR. SPECTER -- "But, you don't remember whether you told him it was A

you took off of the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "I think it was A. I'm not really sure."

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0071b.htm

aeffects

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Jun 23, 2010, 3:41:24 AM6/23/10

On Jun 22, 11:29 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

no advertising dipshit..... you KNOW the rules.....

David Von Pein

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Jul 1, 2010, 4:26:35 AM7/1/10

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/1fe9e41234b18dcd

>>> "Jeepers peepers -- all you ever wanted to know about Leave It To Beaver and more! (The fact the discs are tough to remove from their holding post is excellent, David. Down with "floaters".)" <<<

Sure, Peter, it's excellent for shipping purposes. But 35+ discs that
are cemented in like bricks can be a bit disconcerting after the 99th
agonizing try to free the circular platters from their stubborn-to-
remove "holding posts" (aka: "hubs").

I'm sure even Peter Fokes will concur with my above assessment
concerning this earthshaking matter, which might just border on a
national security concern.

How so?

Well, here's how so:

For example: Just imagine the angst that President Obama is going
through at this very moment as he tries to pry Disc #3 of Season 4
from its "holding post" in an effort to cue up his favorite "Leave It
To Beaver" episodic adventure ("Ward's Millions").

After making an emergency call to the Pentagon for blasting equipment,
the President finally gives up in frustration.

So what happens next, you ask?

Well, the irate President from the Aloha State is so ticked off that
he was unable to wrestle the DVD from its moorings, he lunges for the
red phone on his desk, and in a fit of uncontrolled "I Need My Beaver"
anger, the livid President of the United States launches a full-scale
nuclear attack on Russia and Pakistan and several other parts of the
world, including Little Rock, Arkansas, for some reason (but who can
blame him under these conditions of intense duress)?

And so what happens next, you ask? (You ARE asking, I hope.)

Well, after the mushroom clouds finally die down, and after 799 years
have passed (in order to allow the radiation over the totally
devastated United States to finally deteriorate to a safe level), we
are amazed to discover that President Obama's Season Four set of
"Leave It To Beaver" somehow was able to survive the 68 nuclear
missiles that destroyed the rest of the nation.

And guess what?

That damn Disc #3 is still stuck to that "holding post"/hub!

Now THAT'S proper floater-preventive packaging!

Regards, salutations, and Godspeed.

http://Leave-It-To-Beaver-On-DVD.blogspot.com

http://Amazon.com/DVP-LITB/review/R1QFBG2FVKFVTD

:--)

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