David Von Pein Thinks He's Honest?!!!

Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 10:15:21 AM6/26/17

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Found in the censored forum:

>> You just can't answer my questions because you are not honest and I
>> catch you being dishonest.
>>
>
>Cite just *one* example. (Good luck.)

Certainly David... and rather than merely citing it, I'll QUOTE the
proof that you aren't honest:

David Von Pein:
>>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?

Ben Holmes:
>> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
>>
>> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.

David Von Pein:
> Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
>
> Ben thinks that this statement....
>
> "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
>
> ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)

Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS
WEBSITE!
************************************************
So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a
liar?

On the 27th of November, the New York Times reported "Dr. Kemp Clark,
who pronounced Mr. Kennedy dead, said one bullet struck him at about
the necktie knot, "It ranged downward in his chest and did not exit"
the surgeon said.

On that same day the New York Herald Tribune stated: "on the basis of
accumulated data, investigators have concluded that the first shot
fired as the Presidential car was approaching, struck the President in
the neck, just above the knot of his necktie, then ranged downward
into his body."

CBS, NBC, the BBC, and L'Express quoted Dr. Clark as saying that the
bullet had entered Kennedy's neck from in front and entered the chest.
But perhaps all of these don't strike you as "evidence" - so let's
look at what is PROVABLY evidence - sworn testimony:

Dr. Clark: Dr. Perry assumed that the findings in the neck were due to
penetration of the missile into the chest. For this reason, he
requested chest tubes to be placed. (6H28)

Dr. Clark: ... It was the assumption, based on the previously
described deviation of the trachea and the presence of blood in the
strap muscles of the neck that a wound or missile wound might have
entered the President's chest. (6H28)

So who's lying, David?

I'd like you to PUBLICLY RETRACT your lie that there's no evidence for
the bullet ranging downward into JFK's chest.

Of course, knowing how dishonest you are, this rebuttal and your
retraction will never find it's way on to your many websites...
************************************************

As everyone can see, I cited not only contemporary newspaper accounts
where a Parkland doctor was referenced as stating that they believed
the bullet that struck the throat ranged downward, I also cited the
testimony where the doctor said that as well.

The treatment in the emergency room WAS BASED ON THAT OPINION, but
David won't tell you any of this evidence... he'll simply lie and
label me a liar.

There *IS* evidence, I've both quoted and cited it.

Sworn testimony IS ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORD "EVIDENCE!"

So the liar is David... and David refuses to retract his despicable
claim that I'm the liar on this issue.

That just goes to show his lack of character.

David Von Pein

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Jun 26, 2017, 7:14:53 PM6/26/17

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BTW / FYI / FWIW / IAC [i.e., If Anybody Cares]....

Here's more of the discussion about Holmes' nonexistent bullet that Ben says definitely "ranged downward toward JFK's chest"....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2017/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1227.html

Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 7:46:20 PM6/26/17

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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:14:51 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>BTW / FYI / FWIW / IAC [i.e., If Anybody Cares]....
>

>Here's more of the discussion ...

In other words, you get slaughtered where I have the opportunity to
correct your lying... so you've decided to post only your one-sided
lies in your own website, where no-one will be allowed to correct you.

The *FACT* is that I stated only what was PRECISELY supported by the
evidence... and you claimed I was lying.

I cited & quoted a *NUMBER* of sources that backed up EXACTLY what I
stated...

You lied... you got *caught* lying... and you ran away when it became
apparent that you couldn't spin the story anymore...

You're a gutless coward, David Von Pein.

Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 7:52:01 PM6/26/17

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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:14:51 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

Cut & paste from the above link:

************************************************************

>Ben thinks that this statement....
>
>"That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
>
>...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying,
> because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT
> supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that
> any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging
> in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more.
> (As per usual.)

*************************************************************

David 'The Liar' Pein didn't include any of this supporting evidence
in his website... perhaps presuming that others simply wouldn't know
the facts as well as I do... here's some of that evidence he claims
doesn't exist:

David Von Pein

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Jun 26, 2017, 7:55:18 PM6/26/17

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Holmes actually thinks THIS statement below is the Gospel truth....

"It [throat bullet] wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm." -- B. Holmes

Ben Holmes *actually* thinks that **I am the liar** by pointing out the FACT that the above statement about a bullet being "pulled out" of JFK's body at a "pre-autopsy autopsy" is nothing but a preposterous theory that CTers have merely made up out of thin air, with ZERO hard evidence to support such a fantastic notion.

Incredibly, though, since I pointed out Holmes' blatant falsehood which is contained within the above statement made by Holmes, somehow *I* am the one who is lying.

Holmes is a shrink's nightmare. And a "Pot/Kettle" analogy come to life---time and time again.

David Von Pein

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Jun 26, 2017, 8:04:55 PM6/26/17

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Ben the walking Pot/Kettle will now totally ignore how many times Bud has schooled him on the issue of the Parkland doctors' "ASSUMPTIONS" regarding any bullet in JFK's body.

Ben thinks Clark's and Perry's statements TRUMP the actual autopsy of the President. IOW, Ben prefers weak ASSUMPTIONS and guesswork rather than relying on the AUTOPSY OF JFK AT BETHESDA, which, of course, revealed NO BULLETS anywhere in the President's whole body.

But these facts mean nothing to Ben Boy. He LIKES the idea of a "pre-autopsy autopsy" (LOL). And he LIKES the notion of some plotter digging into JFK's throat to dig out an unwanted bullet---even though everybody who is *reasonable* knows no such thing ever happened, not *could* it possibly have happened, given the timeline for such things.

So, like the staunch and silly CTer that he has been for more than ten years now, by God Ben Holmes is going to declare (without qualification) that a "pre-autopsy autopsy" *positively* did occur and he'll declare (as if it were a bona fide FACT) that a "bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."

Ben = Pathetic. (As if we didn't know that already.)

Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 8:08:53 PM6/26/17

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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:55:17 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

This is the famous goalpost moving logical fallacy.

The issue was whether or not there was any evidence for a "downranging
bullet."

David has been sufficiently schooled on that issue now that he doesn't
want to try to make the same claim again.

Yet he's never retracted his original assertions.

So now he's bringing up something new.

You're *STILL* a gutless liar, David.

Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 8:13:47 PM6/26/17

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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:04:54 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

Desperately trying to change the topic.

Was there evidence for a downranging bullet? Or did I simply make that
up out of whole cloth?

Why did you lie and claim that there's no evidence for a "downranging
bullet?"

Why are you posting more lies on your website, despite the fact that
you were schooled on your lies here in an open forum?

Why do you keep calling me a liar WHEN I'VE CITED & QUOTED THE
EVIDENCE THAT PROVES I'M NOT, AND YOU **ARE?**

(The answer, of course; is because you're a dishonest person.)

David Von Pein

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Jun 26, 2017, 8:57:58 PM6/26/17

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Ben Holmes

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Jun 26, 2017, 9:06:50 PM6/26/17

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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:57:56 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

"Bud" hasn't demonstrated that you were telling the truth when you
claimed that there was "no evidence" for a downranging bullet.

So "Bud" can't help you either.

Feel free to continue to throw as much garbage as you want into this
post...

But what you won't do is demonstrate that there's no evidence of a
downranging bullet.

And *that* is the proof of your dishonesty.