Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 53)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From February 2005, May
2006, January 2007, February 2007, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Is there anybody who can't see that
the dead Oswald was being framed?
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Those plotters who supposedly framed Lee
Harvey Oswald evidently weren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed
-- based on the sheer number of idiotic errors they made throughout
the process of setting up their lone patsy.
Below are a few scattered examples, which should make everyone ask:
COULD THESE PATSY-FRAMERS HAVE REALLY BEEN THIS STUPID?!......
1.) Using an "Oswald Imposter" in Mexico City who looks nothing like
"Patsy" Lee Harvey Oswald.
2.) Shooting JFK with two or three (or more?) guns when the whole nine
yards must (somehow) fall back into only Patsy Oswald's lap & nest &
gun.
3.) Planting the wrong number of shells in the SN (two; per some
CTers).
4.) Planting the wrong type of rifle in the TSBD (Mauser).
5.) Planting the wrong paper bag in the SN (too long; no oil stains).
6.) Planting the wrong type of shells at the Tippit murder site (from
an automatic)....or, as an alternative to this, I guess CTers would
have us believe that the "real killers" of Tippit used an "automatic",
but couldn't care less that Oswald's gun was a revolver.
7.) Using two people to kill Tippit (per some theories), even though
the plotters must somehow frame ONLY Patsy Oswald for this second
11/22 murder too.
8.) Just letting Patsy Oswald roam around at his leisure at 12:30 PM
during the JFK shooting (per Oliver Stone's comedy of errors).
9.) Allowing Patsy Oswald to waltz outside the TSBD at 12:30 PM to be
PHOTOGRAPHED by Jim Altgens in the doorway (per still another CT
version of events).
10.) Going to the trouble of faking additional Backyard Photos of LHO,
even though one LEGIT photo already exists. This way, the bumbling
Barney Fife-like Patsy-Framers have lots of extra chances of being
exposed, via the needless additional faked photos that might be
revealed as frauds in the future.
11.) Faking the Zapruder Film as part of the "Let's Frame Oswald" plot
-- but LEAVING IN the "rear head snap", which is a "snap" that almost
all CTers think is one of THE MAIN REASONS they should believe in a
conspiracy in the first place....a conspiracy that these Kindergarten-
educated Patsy-Framers are trying to cover up and eradicate by faking
the film. Yeah, it's a MUCH better idea to fake stuff in the film
having to do with the shoes and socks of the WITNESSES IN THE FILM'S
BACKGROUND, instead of faking anything to do with John F. Kennedy's
wounds. Right?
12.) Planting Bullet CE399 in Parkland Hospital prior to 2:00 PM (CST)
on 11/22/63, at a time which could prove deadly to the "Let's Frame
Oswald" plot, since John Connally was still in surgery at the time of
this "planting", and the Dumb-&-Dumber plotters couldn't possibly have
any idea where ALL of the bullets were located at this point in time
(and, per most kooks, there surely must be GOBS of different bullets
to account for by way of this idiotic multi shooter, one-patsy
assassination scheme).
12A.) Alternate to #12 -- Planting the WRONG bullet in Parkland
Hospital (a bullet that cannot possibly be linked to Patsy Oswald's MC/
C2766 weapon). This way, the plotters can add a little more "Maybe
We'll Get Caught By Being This Stupid!" excitement to their Patsy-
Frame-Up plan. Not to mention adding a little more needless legwork
for various other conspirators, who now have to undo this major gaffe
on the part of the bullet-planter by having to
"switch"/"substitute"/"shuffle" the bullets after the non-C2766
missile had been planted.
13.) Planting a wallet on 10th Street just after somebody other than
the Patsy kills Police Officer J.D. Tippit (maybe even TWO non-Oswald
killers remember!)....even though the plotters surely HAVE to know
that this wallet will be found out to be a "fake" (i.e., not Lee
Harvey Oswald's).
Footnote --- It's funny, though, that the plotters couldn't manage to
steal the "real" Oswald wallet and plant that real one on 10th Street.
These conspirators could seemingly steal everything else this Patsy
had (sans any detection by the owner of said articles)....guns,
bullets, camera, you name it....but I guess the wallet was just too
hard to come by.
But, then again, in many instances, it apparently didn't matter if the
boob Patsy-Framers had the REAL Oswald stuff or not -- they were gonna
screw it all up anyway by planting the WRONG stuff (rifle, shells,
stretcher bullet, wallet, jacket).
I wonder how much this clan of idiots got paid for messing up all this
stuff every step of the way? However much it was, it was way yonder
too much.
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ADDENDUMS TO THE ALREADY-MENTIONED C.T. KOOKINESS:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/cb71788240c313fc
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/9529d847a9e19461
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CTer -- Most of what we have is amateur stuff {re. filmed footage of
JFK's murder}.
DVP -- Which means that such filmed footage is harmless to the
conspiracy henchmen...since it's merely "amateur" in nature? Is that
what you're implying here?
I guess the conspirators must have thought that Zapruder and Moorman
and Nix and Muchmore and Towner and the other Towner and Willis and
Bronson and Hughes (et al) were all going to be aiming their cameras
at their feet (instead of at JFK) during the 8 seconds of rifle fire
in Dealey Plaza.
~Good-Sized Laugh Ensues~
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CTer -- According to Dr. Shaw, {Connally} could have been struck by as
many as three shots; and Dr. Shaw didn't find it silly to so consider.
DVP -- Nor did he find it silly to state on Live TV on 11/22/63 that
ALL of Governor Connally's wounds were likely caused by "one bullet".
Also -- If John Connally had been shot THREE times...where are the
freaking bullets? Where?? Naturally, they "vanished" into CT smoke,
right?
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CTer -- What about the fragments they removed from Connally?
DVP -- What about them? The TOTAL amount of fragments that were LEFT
INSIDE Connally AND removed from Connally's body (from his wrist only,
since there were ZERO fragments found in his chest/thorax and just one
super-tiny fragment left in his thigh) weighed "less than the weight
of a postage stamp".
The total amount of lead missing from Bullet CE399 is approximately
2.2 grains, which is way more than the amount of fragments that were
removed from Governor Connally and left inside his body COMBINED.
In fact, Dr. John Lattimer was able to produce 41 fragments from just
2 total grains of lead from a WCC/MC bullet just like CE399. (And it
looks to me like every one of these 41 fragments is bigger in general
size than any of the fragments that were ever inside John Connally's
body.).....
http://i13.tinypic.com/2s7vnk0.jpg
So, what is there about Dr. Charles Gregory's WC testimony regarding
the Connally bullet fragments that you don't like here, Mr. CTer? Do
you think that Gregory is a rotten, scheming "Let's Get Oswald" liar
here?.....
DR. GREGORY -- "I would identify these fragments as varying from five-
tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in
diameter, and each fragment is no more than a half millimeter in
thickness. They would represent, in lay terms, flakes...flakes of
metal."
ARLEN SPECTER -- "What would your estimate be as to their weight in
total?"
DR. GREGORY -- "I would estimate that they would be weighed in
micrograms, which is very small amount of weight. ... It is the kind
of weighing that requires a micro-adjustable scale; which means that
it is something less than the weight of a postage stamp."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/61fe27a14fb7dd35
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/47810571b617d872
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CTer -- And how thick were the Lattimer slivers? Much thinner than a
half millimeter.
DVP -- MUCH THINNER than half-a-millimeter?? You must be joking. One-
half of a millimeter (of any measured substance) is virtually non-
existent as it is.
The fact is that all of Dr. Lattimer's "slices" (in general) appear to
be bigger than every fragment removed from or left inside JBC.
Even if you made Connally's fragments 10 times their current size, it
would still not make enough total lead to exclude CE399 as the bullet
that entered John Connally's body on 11/22/63.
CTers who continue to drag out the "TOO MANY FRAGMENTS WERE LEFT IN
CONNALLY" argument are fooling themselves badly. Because virtually
nothing of any size (fragment-wise) was left in JBC or taken out of
him.
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DVP -- Want to read some really stupid conspiracy-slanted nonsense?
(Pack a lunch for this long essay full of excrement. It's a howl,
too.)......
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/8e0a7f8aba437606
The kook who wrote the above-linked essay thinks that TSBD employee
Danny Arce was the "real JFK killer". And he's also got Bonnie Ray
Williams waving a useless rifle out of a FIFTH-floor window JUST FOR
SHOW!
Time for the guys in the white coats, ya think? Could be.
Totally "made up from whole cloth" junk like that surfaces all the
time at various JFK Forums. It's obvious that the people who churn out
such unsupportable nonsense NEED a conspiracy to exist in the JFK
case. For whatever reason, they NEED it. They feed on it. They
couldn't live without it I fear. And they continue to come up with new
"Conspiracy Food" to satisfy their CT hunger.
But the amazing part is that otherwise-logical-thinking individuals
seem to leave all of their common sense and reasoned-thinking skills
at the door of the JFK (CT) Forum when they spout silly never-could-
have-happened theories like the one I've linked above.
Is there a word for that? A medical term perhaps? Someone said
"Conspiranoid" one time. I thought that was a good term for these
kooks -- a cross between "Conspiracist" and "Paranoid".
I guess "Oswald-Loving Kookhatch" might be another acceptable moniker.
Some of my own replies to the above conspiracy craziness are here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/093ed14259b76d2b
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/a043b92f032757f3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/c5c84a6a24d45e72
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3de17f5387f0a644
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DVP -- Here's another beaut from the "Let's Complicate This
Assassination Plot To THE Most Absurd Extremes Imaginable" band of
conspiracy kooks:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9032
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Re. the "Bullet Found In The Grass In Dealey Plaza" theory......
CTer -- And along comes this guy who takes control, puts the bullet
into his left coat pocket...and it vanishes forever.
DVP -- And this person who pocketed the bullet was also evidently
stupid enough to get himself PHOTOGRAPHED while pocketing (hiding) the
bullet. Right?
Why wasn't that film confiscated by the henchmen/plotters...who MUST
have known a guy with a camera was taking pictures of the "bullet-
gathering" session on Elm Street?
Great plan. And it goes hand-in-hand with the remainder of the
conspirators' plot -- i.e., set up a Patsy while at the same time
shooting from multiple locations....allow the whole "conspiracy" to be
filmed from various angles, and then only "fake" ONE of the
films....allow Jack Ruby to kill Patsy Oswald on Live TV in front of
millions, thereby ensuring that gobs of people will scream "It's a
plot!" in its wake....allow Oswald to (for some reason) live for 46
hours after the shooting of JFK, when Ruby (et al) COULD have "taken
care of him" minutes after 12:30 on November 22.
What a grandiose plot it was indeed. One for the books. A conspiracy
plot conceived by boobs...carried out by boobs...and believed by more
boobs 40+ years hence.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85290a6703a31221
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CTer -- The second autopsy was done on the plane trip from Dallas to
Washington.*
DVP -- Oh yeah, I forgot. The plotters simply shoved the grieving
widow aside, and went to work altering John F. Kennedy's wounds. And
Jackie either never said a single word about this odd activity; or
just happened not to notice it taking place in the close confines of
the Boeing 707 jetliner on the flight to Washington.
* = Footnote: I'm not quite sure if the CTer who wrote the above
nonsense about a "second autopsy on the plane" was actually being dead-
serious there or not. It's very possible that post was designed to be
totally tongue-in-cheek. But you never can tell with some of these
rabid conspiracists. ;)
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CTer -- The Mob had Ruby kill Oswald.
DVP -- Re. Jack Ruby's supposed "Mob" involvement.....
"Mafia contract killers are always selected with utmost care. I mean
the one chosen to kill Oswald would be everything that Jack Ruby was
not. He'd be someone who had a long track record of effectively
carrying out murder contracts before for them. It would be a precise,
unemotional, business-like, and above all, tight-lipped, killer for
hire.
"The whole notion of sophisticated groups -- like organized crime,
U.S. Intelligence -- getting Jack Ruby, of all people, to accomplish a
job which, if he talked, would prove fatal to their existence is just
downright laughable." -- Vincent Bugliosi
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ADDITIONAL KOOK-BASHING FUN AND GAMES:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/18acf16988a69b5b
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/fd1a7a8f2b90a165
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bed05a055b2f4133
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85fe573544d89f90
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3ae26a3befc052b8