10 Worthy Poets from the Past 100 Years

[Michael Pendragon]

Stephen Vincent Benét
Bliss Carman
Annie Finch
Robert Frost
Rudyard Kipling
Kevin N. Roberts
A.E. Stallings
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Louise Webster

and, of course, Michael M. Pendragon

So much for modesty.

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> Strictly speaking, only AAPC regulars are allowed to propose ideas for
> the FAQ site

Then how did a disruptive troll like you steal control of the site?

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, August 22, 2014 12:18:36 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Ivan Granger
>
> John Ashbery
>
> Robert Bly
>
> Mary Frye
>
> Margaret Atwood
>
> Coleman Barks
>
> Jane Hirshfield
>
> Daniel Ladinsky
>
> Louise Bogan
>
> Maya Angelou

What?!?

No Shel Silverstein or Dr. Seuss on your list?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Friday, August 22, 2014 12:01:25 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:29:36 -0700 (PDT),

> Strictly speaking, only AAPC regulars are allowed to propose ideas for the FAQ site, not trolls like you, but if you can make a case for any of your names to be added to the lits o' recommendations, I'll read and consider.
>

ROTFLMAO.

[Will Dockery]

Poor PJR is a one man regular.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I was wondering how difficult it would be
> to make 10 lists of 10 Worthy Poets from
> the Past 100 Years, and realized I that I
> couldn't do it somewhere after half way.
> Not that there aren't Plenty of Worthy
> Poets from the Past 100 Years to choose
> from, but either I haven't read them, or
> I simply couldn't remember their names
> at the moment. In any event, that's the
> kind of thing that happens when I start
> wondering something. Then this happens.

I found the list Barbara's Cat made, yesterday and thought about reposting it here... then noticed that it seems like he just copy and pasted the list from the a.a.p.c. FAQ that PJR hijacked.

Also, these are "of all time", not just 100 years.

Guillaume Apollinaire
Margaret Atwood
W. H. Auden
Robert Burns
Elizabeth Barrett-Browning
Elizabeth Bishop
John Berryman
Joseph Brodsky
Robert Bly
Rupert Brooke
W. C. Bryant
William Blake
Paul Celan
Lucille Clifton
Lewis Carroll
Leonard Cohen
E. E. Cummings
Billy Collins
Alan Dugan
Dante Alighieri
Idris Davies
John Donne
William Empson
T. S. Eliot
R. W. Emerson
Carolyn Forché
Forugh Farrokhzad
Robert Frost
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Eamon Grennan
Allen Ginsberg
A. E. Housman
Anthony Hecht
Donald Hall
Geoffrey Hill
Gerard Manley Hopkins
Ralph Hodgson
Seamus Heaney
Tony Harrison
Ted Hughes
Zbginiew Herbert
Homer
Issa
Randall Jarrell
Jack Kerouac
Mimi Khalvati
Gerrit Kouwenaar
Rudyard Kipling
Daniil Kharms
Sidney Lanier
Denise Levertov
Federico Garcia Lorca
Dorianne Laux
Li Po
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Lucebert
Lyn Lifshin
Philip Larkin
Robert Lowell
Czeslaw Milosz
Hugh MacDiarmid
E. A. Markham
Edna St. Vincent Millay
John Milton
Osip Mandelstam
Pablo Neruda
Mary Oliver
Sean O'Brien
Michael Ondaatje
Sharon Olds
Wilfred Owen
Brian Patten
Janos Pilinszky
Octavio Paz
Sylvia Plath
Henry Reed
R. M. Rilke
Arthur Rimbaud
Theodore Roethke
Rumi
Anne Sexton
Dr. Seuss
Edmund Spenser
Frank Stanford
Mark Strand
Wallace Stevens
William Shakespeare
Dylan Thomas
R. S. Thomas
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
César Vallejo
Charles Wright
James Wright
Oscar Wilde
Walt Whitman
William Carlos Williams
W. B. Yeats
Yevgeny Yevtushenko

If Cat's list is significantly different I will repost it here, as well.

[Will Dockery]

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> Stephen Vincent Benét
>
> Bliss Carman
>
> Annie Finch
>
> Robert Frost

On this list I have to say that as of now Robert Frost is the only poet that I would include on my "Top 10", but we are both aware that we have very different tastes and agendas in poetry.

Millay has become a new interest, though I know little of her poetry so far.

Although he's a bit of a difficult read, I'm fond of a peer and friend of Frost's, Ezra Pound. Here's a favorite excerpt from him of mine:

http://alt.books.beatgeneration.narkive.com/wQTNBdZW/beat-yuhself-dockery.2

----
From: Will Dockery
Subject: Ezra Pound: the cold coffee incident
Date: 2004-09-02 10:49:38 PST

"I had withdrawn in forest and my song
Was swallowed up in leaves..."
-Robert Frost

[from the review of "A Boy's Will" by Robert Frost]:

"I remember that I was canoeing and thirsty and I put into a shanty for
water and found a man who had no water and gave me cold coffee instead.
And he didn't understand it, he was from a minor city and he "just set
there watchin' the river" and didn't "seem to want to go back," and he
didn't care for anything else. and so I presume he entered into Anunda.
And I remember Joseph Campbell telling me of meeting a man on a
desolate waste of bogs, and he said to him, "it's rather dull here";
and the man said,

"Faith, ye can sit on a middan and dream stars."

And that is the essence of folk poetry with distinction between America
and Ireland. And Frost's book reminded me of these things..."
-Ezra Pound [excerpted from "Into my Own" by John Evangelest Walsh.]
----

In honor of Pound and live broadcasts.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> The list you posted in response to my original post this morning was not original to you.

Oh, okay... since your posts are always lacking context, I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

I stated when I posted it that it was from the a.a.p.c. FAQ. Looks like your reading comprehension is a little fuzzy this morning?

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> The list you posted in response to my original post this morning was not original to you.

My list of 10 Worthy Poets from the Past 100 Years is coming, wait for it.

So far I know Robert Frost and Dylan Thomas are on it.

You're not.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Since Pound was an avowed fascist and Mussolini supporter

That was really because he hated the British so much, plus he became a bit demented along that time period.

> I can't help but wonder what you think his agenda was in poetry.
> Of course, Frost famously spoke President Kennedy's Inaugural.
> How would you compare and contrast their political agendas as
> advanced through their poetry, and who was the better groomed?

As far as "groomed", Pound had a really cool beard most of the time.

[Will Dockery]

"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea12b932-5fc3-473b...@googlegroups.com...
> Since Pound was an avowed fascist and Mussolini supporter,

And Dennis M. Hammes was a very public racist, anti-semite and homophobe,
yet you never seemed to have any problem with that.

I can't help but wonder how you'd explain that, if you could, Reverend
Corey.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Sure, I'd be happy to explain, Will. The Dennis I knew wasn't a public
> figure,
> and people who call him a racist, anti-semite and homophobe simply don't
> understand his writing style, didn't know him personally, or both. That's
> all.

You got that right... and I notice even you seem at a loss to explain his
hundreds of racist, anti-semitic and homophobic posts and poems.

Which is no surprise, you never seem to be able to explain much of anything.

[gen...@hotmail.com]

On 23-Aug-2014, willie douchebag, the douchiest of douchy douchebags

> And Dennis M. Hammes was a very public racist, anti-semite and homophobe,
> yet you never seemed to have any problem with that.

Just because you couldn't understand what Dennis was saying to you doesn't
mean you can make up lies about him when he's not here to defend himself,
you fucking douchebag.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Yes, I am at a complete loss to explain why you think he wrote

>
> "hundreds of racist, anti-semitic and homophobic posts and poems".

I don't /think/ he wrote them... I know Hammes wrote them.

What you are really "at a loos" at is how to explain and/or justify the fact
that Dennis M. Hammes was a writer of racist, anti-semitic and homophobic
statements and poetry.

Which is no surprise.

[Will Dockery]

<generic> wrote in message
news:53f8bf3d$0$46029$c3e8da3$88b2...@news.astraweb.com...

>
> Just because you couldn't understand what Dennis was saying

<snip for focus>

Okay, here's your chance to explain what Dennis M. Hammes was "saying" when
he repeatedly posted statements and poems that were explicitly racist,
anti-semitic and homophobic.

I can repost examples of what I mean by this if that will help you better
explain.

Let me guess, that'll be just a bit too difficult for you, right?

[Will Dockery]

"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:8ccceb1f-f715-4e41...@googlegroups.com...
>
> Will, you haven't established that

> Dennis M. Hammes was a "writer
> of racist, anti-semitic and homophobic
> statements and poetry."

Okay, we can repost some examples from the writings of Dennis M. Hammes, if
that will help you explain his racist and homophobic posts and poetry.

I'm sure you've seen them and know exactly what I mean, but we can play the
game your way.

[gen...@hotmail.com]

(unsnip)

Just because you couldn't understand what Dennis was saying to you doesn't
mean you can make up lies about him when he's not here to defend himself,
you fucking douchebag.

On 23-Aug-2014, willie douchebag wrote:


> Okay, here's your chance to explain what Dennis M. Hammes was "saying"
> when
> he repeatedly posted statements and poems that were explicitly racist,
> anti-semitic and homophobic.

As we all know, willie douchebag, the narrator of the poem and the person
who wrote the poem are always one in the same in willie douchebag land.
Unless, of course, it fits into your infantile agenda, then you must point
out that one must never confuse the writer with the narrator.

It all depends on which way the wind blows in willie douchebag land because
you have no moral or ethical compass to follow.

> I can repost examples of what I mean by this if that will help you better
> explain.

Yeah, do that. In fact, find examples of you being a douchebag, perhaps you
could just repost every post you've ever made.



> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 15 Jan 2014 04:10:38 -0500, Will
> Dockery wrote:
>
>> Another out of context post by a writer too inept to create a complete,
>> self
>> contained sentence.
>
> Where's the main verb in that

How about "create"?

[gen...@hotmail.com]

On 23-Aug-2014, willie douchebag wrote:

> I don't /think/ he wrote them... I know Hammes wrote them.

You /know/ he wrote them in much the same way you /know/ he frequented the
/glory holes of Fargo ND/

We know.

[Will Dockery]

<gen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53f8bf3d$0$469$c3e8da3$88b2...@news.astraweb.com...

<snip for focus>

> the narrator of the poem and the person
> who wrote the poem are always one in the same

That's why I wrote about the /statements/ and poetry of Dennis M. Hammes.

Most of his racism and homophobia came out in his posts, which we usually
consider to be the actual opinions of the person posting.

Or maybe, like you, Hammes was just trolling?

[Will Dockery]

gen... wrote:
>
> You /know/ he wrote them in much the same way you /know/ he frequented the
> /glory holes of Fargo ND/

No, I know because his posts are archived and can be viewed, where the
racism and homophobia run all through them.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I can't explain why you think his posts and poetry
> are racist and homophobic. You have to do that.

Better yet we can let the posts of Dennis M. Hammes "speak" for themselves.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Okay, fine. Show me what you mean.

Okay, I'll show you.

Google one of the racist terms for a "black person", it starts with an "N" + "Dennis M. Hammes" for archived posts of his writings and poetry using that racist term and description.

Google one of the homophobic terms for a gay person, usually the one that starts with an "F" + "Dennis M. Hammes" for archived posts of his writings and poetry using that homophobic term and description.

Some samples of the racism and homophobia can be found this page, if you don't feel like looking for yourself:

http://us.arts.poetry.narkive.com/HHVUgbjW/zorro-by-dockery-benders-conley-video.14

That should keep you busy for a while, trying to make excuses and apologies for the dozen or hundreds of hits you'll get on each of those.

You might even secretly begin to agree with me... but you could never admit that, could you?

,------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| The mad little drunkard flies off the handle every time he
| encounters a criticism or a dissenting opinion. Anybody that
| doesn't believe this can do a simple test: critique the next
| Hammes poem or challenge his viewpoint the next time he's
| talking about politics or any subject for that matter. He'll
| immediately launch into a 'nigger-faggot' rant. Guaranteed.
| This is how pathetically repetitive and predictable he's
| become. I'll be mostly either ignoring his future posts or
| flaming him for cheap fun, depending on the mood and time.
| He doesn't deserve better treatment.
|
| - Chandra P. Das
| Message ID TQYc.16342$***@trndny04
|
|__________________________________________________________________
,------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| I think maybe he's gone loopy since he was exposed as a
| pathetic liar who thought he'd gain credibility by
| pretending to have an advanced university degree. The
| transformation into a stinking pool of racist cracker-
| slime seems abrupt enough to need some such explanation.
|
| - Peter J. Ross
| Message ID TQYc.16342$***@trndny04
|
|__________________________________________________________________


Excerpts posted for educational and information -fair use- purposes.

And so it goes.

[George Dance]

On Saturday, August 23, 2014 2:59:46 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Okay, fine. Show me what you mean.

Here are a few examples of Dennis Hammes's racist and homophobic rants from just one thread.

<quote>
... you cocksucking little yellow
faggo... ah, "Commonwealther"?...
But the /clue/, faggot, is that it isn't your "ears" that your
boifriends fondle when they "want you to hear something."
And it isn't a "bladder" they stick in your mouth when they "want
you to say something."
[https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.poems/l6vAB4oMhZU/7U3dmtr-VWoJ]
Because no amount of your gibbering will make a nigger a "black"
or a faggot a "gay."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.poems/l6vAB4oMhZU/3PnA8WK1t50J
... cocksucking illiterate who refuses even to notice
when he's sucking cocks or to identify which ones he's sucking ...
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.poems/l6vAB4oMhZU/qFT0HU-anNUJhttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.poems/l6vAB4oMhZU/qFT0HU-anNUJ
</q>

Now snip it all and pretend, once again, that you never saw any of it.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:

> I found the list Barbara's Cat made, yesterday and thought about reposting it here... then noticed that it seems like he just copy and pasted the list from the a.a.p.c. FAQ that PJR hijacked.

> Also, these are "of all time", not just 100 years.


A poor list. It's missing most of my favorites:

Lord Byron
Bliss Carman
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Ernest Dowson
Eugene Field
Edward Fitzgerald
William Ernest Henley
Robert Herrick
Thomas Hood
John Keats
Andrew Marvell
Edgar Poe
James Whitcomb Riley
Kevin N. Roberts
Percy Bysshe Shelley
Robert Louis Stevenson
Algernon Swinburne

I'm pleased to see Lyn Lifshin included. She's a "Penny Dreadful" and "Songs of Innocence" alum.

[Will Dockery]

Aidan Tynan collected several of the worst of Dennis Hammes in one place, I saw earlier today:

http://us.arts.poetry.narkive.com/HHVUgbjW/zorro-by-dockery-benders-conley-video.14

Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments, rec.arts.poems
From: "Aidan Tynan"
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:30:06 +0100
Local: Tues, Jul 29 2003 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: Hammes, can't even impress the poets

"Transexuals, gays, lesbians, and pacifists can simply be thought of as natural selectin in action, as those too yellow to live merely removing themselves from the gene pool."

"Then why did the lying n***** keep insisting that Nobody Could Touch Him
when he forced his way onto other people's buses, other people's
neighborhoods (by borrowing their money), other people's schools, other
people's private lunch counters, other people's Constitutions?"

"Can't abolish the n***** without abolishing their own smutty little
religions about how /they/ "own everybody they think they've heard of
because they think they've heard of them."

'"Cos that's the only thing the n***** ever "preached."
He gotcha with your own Holy SuperPowower."

Hammes in defence of Chuck Lysaght (the faggot in question is David
Rutkowski:

"The f***** demands to know which prick I sucked to hear the noises I wrote,
because it's the only way /he/ knows to write."

"Boy, once you identify the threat, you /shut your prick-sucking, yellow,
f*****, delinquent, Protestant mouth/ about what I do aboutit."

"You're too f***** yellow even to have a thought by yourself, you're to
f***** yellow to learn even the language of arms, /you have not earned the
right to an opinion on the subject/."

I also notice that Asians were included in the bile of Hammes hatred:

"Pretty much. That recently-Muslim gook who grenaded his squadmates is
another matter."

"Both MacArthur and Westmoreland were relieved for doing what was
tactically/strategically mandatory but hadn't been Permitted by some gook
proud of his Permission/Denial Dress"

Anyway, most folks beside Gen and Corey probably get the point by now.

[Will Dockery]

On Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:07:11 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > I found the list Barbara's Cat made, yesterday and thought about reposting it here... then noticed that it seems like he just copy and pasted the list from the a.a.p.c. FAQ that PJR hijacked.
>
> > Also, these are "of all time", not just 100 years.
>
> A poor list. It's missing most of my favorites:

I'm not that familiar with several of thes poets on your list, but no "All Time Best" poets list could be without:

> Lord Byron
> Samuel Taylor Coleridge

> John Keats
> Andrew Marvell
> Edgar Poe

> Percy Bysshe Shelley
> Robert Louis Stevenson
>

> I'm pleased to see Lyn Lifshin included. She's a "Penny Dreadful" and "Songs of Innocence" alum.

Yes, I remember Lyn lifshin well from my Small Press/Writer's Digest days of the 1980s and 1990s. It is nice to see a familiar name form the past.

--
Shadowville All-Stars Live at Rotary Park at the 6th Annual AIDS 5k Riverwalk Event Run. With special musical guests Angeleyes & Mike Matthews.
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I think the idea of a bunch of white guys arguing
> about the racial relevance and social implications
> of a dead contemporary's commentary would
> amuse Dennis greatly, and I'm sure he'd be
> flattered by the attention.

Hammes might even be amused if you tried to explain his racism and homophobia, which he seemed actually proud of.

[Will Dockery]

Here it is... the 41 Worthy Poets from the Past 100 Years (part one of 100).

E.E. Cummings
Robert Frost
Dylan Thomas
T.S. Eliot
Ezra Pound
Jim Morrison
Patti Smith
Allen Ginsberg
Jack Kerouac
John Berryman

Well, that's ten, in no real order, love all those poets. Seems I can go possibly to 20 without a big wait:

11.) Frank O'Hara
12.) Gregory Corso
13.) Pablo Neruda
14.) Charles Bukowski
15.) Lawrence Ferlinghetti
16.) Rod McKuen
17.) Carl Sandberg
18.) Anne Waldmann
19.) Bob Dylan
20.) Anne Sexton

Okay, all of the above have been important poetss to me at some time or another in my life and studies, and I find I can easily make thirty, now that the coffee is working on my head.

21.) Leonard Cohen
22.) Sylvia Plath
23.) Carson McCullers
24.) William B. Yeats
25.) Edna St. Vincent Millay (newest poet on the list to me!)
26.) Rudyard Kipling
27.) Robert W. Service
28.) Leroi Jones aka Amiri Baraka
29.) Dale Houstman
30.) Phil Ochs

And, on to 40... there really was Some good/interesting poetry produced in the 20th Century...

31.) Tom Snelling
32.) Stuart Leichter
33.) Seaborn Jones
34.) Gary Snyder
35.) Richard Brautigan
36.) Ken Nordine
37.) Shel Silverstein
38.) Dennis M. Hammes
39.) Ayn Rand
40.) Delmore Schwartz
41.) Lou Reed

Okay, that's getting about it for right off the top shelf poets. There's probably a dozen more at least I'm not remembering right off hand, locals and Usenet writers would fill 20-30 spots easy, and they do count.

Placing this elsewhere, you are encouraged to come and add your favorite poet list as well.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/MHWofBjCDtQ/Qj800ajPhxYJ

And so it goes.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> A lot of famous names there. I don't think I ever
> met more than two or three people on your list.
> It looks like most of them passed a long time ago.

Patti Smith is still alive and well as is Bob Dylan, Lou Reed lived until last year. Hopefully Stuart and Dale are still with us, living, if not on Usenet.

Anne Waldmann was still alive and well last time I checked. She'd be higher on the list if it were in order of my favorites.

I do think you're right, most of the others may be dead by now... those things happen to the best of us.

--
We're number 2 on the ReverbNation Rock charts for Columbus, GA. http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> It looks like most of them passed a long time ago.

I'm sure Feringhetti is still alive, as is my friend Seaborn Jones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET-NeWzbpcQ

GSW Convocation: Seaborn Jones, poet

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 4:36:04 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Here it is... the 41 Worthy Poets from the Past 100 Years (part one of 100).
>

I approve of the following 7:

> Robert Frost

> Carl Sandberg

> William B. Yeats

> Edna St. Vincent Millay

> Rudyard Kipling

> Robert W. Service

> Shel Silverstein



****

> Ayn Rand

Did Ayn Rand write poetry?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:04:32 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Has anybody ever told you that you're too smart for your own good?
>

Many times.

> Someone said that to me recently, but I swear it can't be true because I don't even know what too smart for my own good is supposed to mean.
>

:-)

I've always rationalized it to mean something along the lines of Gray's "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."

Only in this instance, the intellect constantly impels one toward acquiring greater wisdom ... in spite of one's knowledge that this wisdom will ultimately destroy his happiness.

Specifically, the awareness that life is meaningless, that God is an unnecessary hypothesis, that the human "soul" cannot survive the physical body, that all things end in death, etc.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:06:41 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> See, that shows how much I know.
> I thought God was real, souls were
> transcendent, and death was just a
> part of life's cycle, world without end.

Yeah, so did I ... once upon a time.

> Thanks for setting me straight, Mike.

I haven't.

Disillusionment can only be imparted through experience.

(I think I'll add that to my book of proverbs.)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:23:36 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> See, that must be where I messed up
> because it was experience that taught
> me God is real, souls are transcendent,
> and death is just a part of life's cycle.

Psst! Dorothy ... look behind the curtain ...

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:38:36 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> You must be right.
> I am terribly naive,
> and not very smart.

The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: -- Ecclesiastes 2:14

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:59:30 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Exactly, Michael. Stuff like that
> is what started me thinking God

> is real, souls are transcendent,

> and death is just part of life's cycle.

Fine, Corey. Fold your hands in prayer ... and eat your flesh.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 12:08:06 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Prayers are good, and in this prayer
> are doors for all yours over there;
> doors for closure; doors to open;
> doors, most assuredly, for hopin'
> you the best, and a rest well needed
> now that this here prayer's completed.

(burp!)

Pardon me.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 12:18:46 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> That's so sweet.
> Bless your heart.

Please redirect your blessing approximately 6 inches lower.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 1:45:07 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm sorry. Today's blessing has already been sent out.
>
> If it doesn't touch your heart, just stick it wherever it fits.
>

Ouch! Now you're aiming a little *too* low.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 2:19:42 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> No aiming necessary.
> Blessings are self-guided.

With blessings like missiles, who needs slings and arrows?

[Will Dockery]

That's debatable, certainly from our wide differences in definition of "What is poetry?" but I always leaned to the fact that Ayn Rand called "Anthem" poetry

(In The Letters of Ayn Rand, dated July 24, 1946):

"Dear Rose Wilder Lane: Thank you very much for your review of Anthem. I did not expect any reviews on this little booklet, and appreciate yours most sincerely. Just between you and me, were you actually stuck on what kind of literary form Anthem represents—or was it just a very clever method you employed to arouse interest in the book? If you are really wondering about it, Anthem is a poem."
-Ayn Rand

Prose poetry, I took her to mean, and have for this reason included her in my lists of favorite poets, since she sure influenced me profoundly in my own poetry, as The Fountainhead was a real satori, or "kick in the head".

http://alexpeak.com/twr/anthem/excerpts.html

"Anthem is a story about humanity, about the spirit of individualism. Much like Orwell’s 1984, Huxley’s Brave New World, and Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron,” it is set in a dystopian future where, thanks to conditioning of one sort of another, breaking from the mould is either discouraged or forbidden. In Anthem’s case, it is forbidden, but enforcement is weak [...] centers around an individual’s strive to think freely, to love freely, and to live and let live, and thus it is truly timeless. With such beautiful poetry, it celebrates the survival and ultimate indestructibility of the individualist spirit. Try as the planners might, they are fundamentally incapable of keeping what Orwell calls 'ownlife' from arising in their subjects." -Alex Peak

A Poem (p. viii)

"To Rose Wilder Lane, in answer to a question, [Ayn Rand] classified [Anthem] officially as a 'poem.'..." -Leonard Peikoff

And... so it went.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Monday, August 25, 2014 2:36:01 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Is that a rhetorical question,
> or are you asking for a name?

Door number one.

But if you've got a name, lay it on me.

[Michael Pendragon]

I consider it a novella with a mythopoeic theme ... but who am I to argue with Ms. Rand?

[Will Dockery]

Several poets added this morning, submitted by Jack Snipe and Matt Henderson...

42.) Robert Bly

Matt Henderson wrote: ROBERT BLY! Yes. Another one. Does good work with Rumi...not as good as Coleman Barks of UGA...But I really do like Bly doing Bly a lot!!!

43.) William Carlos Williams

Jack Snipe wrote: William Carlos Williams comes to mind too.

Will Dockery wrote: True Jack, because so much depends on that red wheelbarrow!

44.) James Dickey

Matt Henderson wrote: Two came to mind...Pete Matthiessen May 22, 1927---April 5, 2014 (aged 86), and the GREAT James Dickey!

Will Dockery wrote: https://groups.google.com/.../MHWofBjCDtQ/Qj800ajPhxYJ Dickey, Egad, yes, more than just whitewater rafting and banjo sodomy, Dickey was about the finest Southern poet around.

45.) Pete Matthiessen

1.) E.E. Cummings
2.) Robert Frost
3.) Dylan Thomas
4.) T.S. Eliot
5.) Ezra Pound
6.) Jim Morrison
7.) Patti Smith
8.) Allen Ginsberg
9.) Jack Kerouac
10.) John Berryman

> Well, that's ten, in no real order, love all those poets. Seems I can go possibly to 20 without a big wait:

11.) Frank O'Hara
12.) Gregory Corso
13.) Pablo Neruda
14.) Charles Bukowski
15.) Lawrence Ferlinghetti
16.) Rod McKuen

Matt Henderson wrote: Rod McKuen wrote some great lines...I had 4 of his paperbacks. Seems he was ridiculed a lot after "Seasons in the Sun." "I'll leave my bed as wide as Williamsburg" is one I remember. Neruda. "I can write the saddest lines tonight." Spent a season re-reading him after I met Eileen. I do not see my favorite poet here-- Jim Morrison. (He wrote "Legends of the Fall and Wolfman(?) I will share some of his lines from Ghazals. Extraordinary. And like Gary Snyder...a zen man.

Will Dockery wrote: Rod McKuen got raked over the coals by our 1970s generation, tis true, Matt, and it took me until 1997 down in Saint Augustine Florida for me to find out for myself about him. Found a slim volume of his poems at my friend's house where I was staying, and found McKuen to have some smooth and clever "New York" style poems, very latter day Beat. Frank O'Hara may have done it just a bit better, but McKuen could spin the verse.

17.) Carl Sandberg
18.) Anne Waldmann
19.) Bob Dylan
20.) Anne Sexton

> Okay, all of the above have been important poets to me at some time or another in my life and studies, and I find I can easily make thirty, now that the coffee is working on my head.

21.) Leonard Cohen
22.) Sylvia Plath
23.) Carson McCullers
24.) William B. Yeats
25.) Edna St. Vincent Millay (newest poet on the list to me!)
26.) Rudyard Kipling
27.) Robert W. Service
28.) Leroi Jones aka Amiri Baraka
29.) Dale Houstman
30.) Phil Ochs

> And, on to 40... there really was Some good/interesting poetry produced in the 20th Century...

31.) Tom Snelling
32.) Stuart Leichter
33.) Seaborn Jones
34.) Gary Snyder
35.) Richard Brautigan
36.) Ken Nordine
37.) Shel Silverstein
38.) Dennis M. Hammes
39.) Ayn Rand
40.) Delmore Schwartz
41.) Lou Reed

> Okay, that's getting about it for right off the top shelf poets. There's probably a dozen more at least I'm not remembering right off hand, locals and Usenet writers would fill 20-30 spots easy, and they do count.
>
>
>
> Placing this elsewhere, you are encouraged to come and add your favorite poet list as well.
>
>
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/MHWofBjCDtQ/Qj800ajPhxYJ
>
>
>
> And so it goes.

[Will Dockery]

<snipped for focus>

21.) Leonard Cohen

Just Walkin' wrote:
> > Most folks love Leonard.
>
> Most people don't know who Leonard is.
>
> And the number that do is getting smaller every day.

True, Leonard Cohen, way down here in the Deep South, was really big with the hipster-college folks who were into his early-to-mid period, same as they probably had a copy of Blood On The Tracks along with, maybe The Eagles and Gordon Lightfoot albums.

These folks were slightly older than me, mid-twenties to my teenage but "daily growing" state.

Leonard Cohen was not known to the general public, the folks who were buying Bee Gees, Boz Scaggs and bopping down at the Disco.

The lady who sat me down to listen to Leonard Cohen, Angie Oliver (also Science /Biology teacher at Carver High School) loved him a lot, and thought I needed to know about him since I was blathering away about Dylan, Kerouac and those guys so much. She gave me a copy of "The Best Of", which I still think really is Cohen's best, and I went out and bought my own copy of "New Skin For An Old Ceremony"... she always seemed to cry when "Who By Fire" came on.

The Partisan was another of Angie's favorites, while she was sort of like a "Cohen Girl" from afar to me, Marianne, Suzanne, all those, if you listen to Cohen you'll meet them, as he "gets head in uunmade beds" and moves on the the next enlightenment... 1976 and there were still breezes of counter culture floating, though that was probably because way down here in the Deep South, everything on the zeitgeist arrives here late, or sidewise, or not at all.

Angie decided one day I needed to read Beautiful Losers, the Cohen novel, so we drove to Atlanta looking for it, out of print for a couple of years or so by then... had a great time, but never did find that book that day.

I bump into Angie every year or so drifting through Thrift Malls or whatever, and I am old... she is somewhat older, and we really don't seem to remember whatever it all was 40 years ago, just a nice hello and a hug and let me get the Hell out of Dodge, please... And yeah, not too many eople around here know much about Leonard Cohen.

Oh, yeah, the early months of the year 1977 and what I recall were a few tears and "So Long, Mariannes" I won't get into... there's a few poems out there that cover those parts of the story.

And so it goes.

<snip>

39.) Ayn Rand

J.D. Chase wrote: I have a weird soft spot for Ayn Rand, even though I'm pretty much a wealthy, bleeding heart liberal/communist, and she would most certainly NOT approve of me one tiny bit... yet, there is a place for her in our culture, Imo... she was a very eccentric, provocative, sui generis "chararacter" who could inspire people, for ill, but also for good... and purely on a plot oriented level, "The Founatinhead" was quite enjoyable...

And so, it goes...

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:56:15 AM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 23 Aug 2014 19:07:11 -0700 (PDT),
>
> Michael Pendragon wrote:

> > A poor list. It's missing most of my favorites:

> > Lord Byron
> > Bliss Carman
> > Samuel Taylor Coleridge
> > Ernest Dowson
> > Eugene Field
> > Edward Fitzgerald
> > William Ernest Henley
> > Robert Herrick
> > Thomas Hood
> > John Keats
> > Andrew Marvell
> > Edgar Poe
> > James Whitcomb Riley
> > Kevin N. Roberts
> > Percy Bysshe Shelley
> > Robert Louis Stevenson
> > Algernon Swinburne

> What a shame that your trollish antics ensure that none of your suggestions will be added to the AAPC site.
>

Suggestions? Don't flatter yourself.


> > I'm pleased to see Lyn Lifshin included.

> I don't recall reading any of her stuff. Google gives me somebody calling her "the modern Emily Dickinson", but surely she can't be *that* bad.
>

Emily Dickinson's never been one of my favorites, but I can still appreciate her verses.

> > She's a "Penny Dreadful" and "Songs of Innocence" alum.

> Nobody's perfect.

Guess who's *not* a "Penny Dreadful" and "Songs of Innocence" alum.

> Incidentally, Lyn Lifshin is both educated and published. Why don't you admit that you detest her?
>

She writes in a modern style, but her work never fails to resonate with me.

(Hope you aren't too jealous.)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:00:11 AM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:48:20 -0700 (PDT),

>
> Michael Pendragon wrote:

> > but who am I to argue with Ms. Rand?

>

> You're an ignorant, illiterate purveyor of unintentionally funny verbiage.
>

It must really hurt to know that I've got about 200 more publication credits than you do.

> Argue with her? I'm surprised you don't want to marry her!

You should've google her before placing your ignorance on display.

Ayn Rand, February 2, 1905 - March 6, 1982.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:03:23 AM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:05:25 -0700 (PDT),

> Ahem. alt.creepy.flirtation.vomit.vomit.vomit is over there. --------->
>

Poor little Piggy. Are you so utterly deprived of attention that you jealously perceive any form of human interaction as sexual?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:04:13 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Consorting with the enemy concerns returning friends to me.
> Returning friends, sent once to sea in earnest, turn this poetry to prose. Who knows which friend will see what's written? Listen while I pee, as tinkle twinkles in your eye. You see me smile, and then know why. Your seeing pee and staring thus shares. Beware! Asparagus makes me think a stink is growing in your nose, as if its blowing meant a scent was sensed, and thinner air down there brings up-chuck. Dinner! Stinky pee and vomitus, see, are hardly worth me rhyming thusly. Unless, I guess, you see through this thing; through pee to see my point, and pissing. Miss the point, or pass it on. Conclusions here are ... Well, foregone.
>

Been boning up on your Bukowski?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:43:39 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I take it you don't like it.

I'd prefer you kept your bukowski in your pants.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 11:04:03 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I don't blame you one bit. In fact,
> I'm surprised you could get your
> mouth around it in the first place.

My mouth is a universe
And with it I fellate the world

-- God, The Book of Job (Blow var.)

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:23:39 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Your mouth is a volcano, little man.

My mouth is a volcano
With it I sing
the piled secrets of Eternity

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:12:40 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> "All of Louis thoughts are very important to him.
> In fact, his thoughts are so important to him that > when he has something to say, his words begin
> to wiggle, and then they do the jiggle, then his
> tongue pushes all of his important words up
> against his teeth and he erupts, or interrupts
> others. His mouth is a volcano!"
> http://www.juliacookonline.com/books/personal-behaviors/my-mouth-is-a-volcano/


"Oinos. -- Do you mean to say that the Creator is not God?

"Agathos. -- I mean to say that the Deity does not create.

"Oinos. -- Explain!

...

"Agathos. -- And while I thus spoke, did there not cross your mind some thought of the physical power of words? Is not every word an impulse on the air?

"Oinos. -- But why, Agathos, do you weep -- and why, oh why do your wings droop as we hover above this fair star -- which is the greenest and yet most terrible of all we have encountered in our flight? Its brilliant flowers look like a fairy dream -- but its fierce volcanoes like the passions of a turbulent heart.

"Agathos. -- They are! -- they are! This wild star -- it is now three centuries since, with clasped hands, and with streaming eyes, at the feet of my beloved -- I spoke it -- with a few passionate sentences -- into birth."

-- Edgar Poe
http://www.eapoe.org/works/mabbott/tom3t025.htm