Alexander Technique and Psychotherapy
Robert Rickover
Robert
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Sandra
eczema? I can of course say to this student enquiry that AT may help
reduce stress levels and scratching habits, but she has asked if there
are any examples / testimonials out there of a link.
This kind of evidence of 'direct' benefits is of such importance to
people - we all know that they are not of great scientific value, or
(as far as the technique is concerned) really of much relevance, but
they make such a difference to levels of confidence and commitment, I
feel that we are justified in seeking them out and providing them where
genuine and appropriate.
Sandra
Ruth Rootberg
Stress can make eczema worse, but it's not the cause, so anything AT might offer is not going to cure it.
Having said that, I have a long-term student whose eczema was not evident when he first began studying. At some point, during a period when he had surgery and didn't have lessons for several weeks, his eczema flared. When he returned to a weekly lesson routine, he noted that as soon as I put hands on him, the itching stopped, and he had relief for the length of the lesson. We then worked on inhibition so he would stop scratching. He worked it out in very concrete ways. For instance, on his drive to my studio, he would ask himself not to scratch until he got to a certain intersection. Then when he arrived there, he didn't scratch, and he chose another point along the way where he could choose. He managed to arrive at my studio without scratching. He also worked in the same way not to scratch while listening to a music concert.
The eczema didn't go away, and then he had other complications because of the kind of cream he used. He now wears fingerless gloves to lessons.
Regards,
Ruth Rootberg, M.AmSAT
RRoo...@comcast.net
413 687-7566
Certified Teacher and Member of
The American Society for the Alexander Technique
www.AmSATonline.org
From: "Sandra" <sandra....@talktalk.net>
To: alex...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:16:04 PM
Subject: [alextech-list] Eczema
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Dorella Belle
clearly this is not AT but I think that it can be reformulated in some way inside AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkI4S9IqrXI
"he would ask himself not to scratch until he got to a certain intersection" : I find this behavior deeply goal oriented and I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress. I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead...
or your hands, Sandra, since the thing worked so well during your lessons!
Sandra
but Ruth's - my enquirer has not decided yet whether or not to try AT.
I've suggested that if she thinks the potential overall benefit of the
Technique to her life is worth committing to, without great expectations
about direct effects on her skin condition, then she should consider
giving it a go. We'll see!
I'm interested in these videos - applying mindfulness to pain /
unpleasant sensations is not AT, but is a relevant and useful set of
strategies my students and I are coming across quite frequently in all
sorts of treatment / therapy contexts, and we sometimes include them in
a lesson, if appropriate. It might indeed be helpful applied to chronic
itching - I've heard it said that it is worse than pain, though that
must be hard to prove!
Sandra
Keith Bacon
On 14 February 2012 22:15, Sandra <sandra....@talktalk.net> wrote:
> ... suggested that if she thinks the potential overall benefit of the Technique
> to her life is worth committing to, without great expectations about direct
> effects on her skin condition, then she should consider giving it a go.
I learned a something aboutt trawling the internet for anecdotal
evidence of cures for my RSI so I had a look about eczma.
As I had never heard much about it in the AT world I looked in the
yoga world. It looks like there are very few cases of people getting
any change with it. There were a few people saying Bikram (hot) yoga
aggravated it and one saying yoga gave a definite improvement. But the
vast majority just said that stress can aggravate it so de-stressing
may be of some help, which is the AT line too I think. I didn't see a
single report of a teacher saying they regularly helped students.
> I'm interested in these videos - applying mindfulness to pain / unpleasant
> sensations is not AT, but is a relevant and useful set of strategies my
> students and I are coming across quite frequently in all sorts of treatment
> / therapy contexts, and we sometimes include them in a lesson, if
> appropriate.
I would recommend learning self-hypnosis for learning to quickly
directly calm the nervous system way down to the point where sensory
processing starts changing. I have seen a hypno-therapist demonstrate
handling pain by calming and visualisation to distance himself from
the pain.
This is usually much faster than learning any mindful meditation
discipline buddhist or not. I dont think AT teachers should try to
teach hypnosis or mindfulness meditation, it's not what they are
trained for and it is against many AT principles (even though it works
well!).
It's not the done thing in AT but I often wonder if a teacher can
induce super deep relaxation with their hands - well I know some do -
but not in regular lessons. It would be interesting if you tried that.
If the itching could be suspended it might might help them see that
the unpleasantness is comprised of basic signals that are processed
through perceptual filters - and using deep relaxation these filters
can be changed.
This is the stuff of hypno-therapy and all sorts of 'healing'
modalities. It maybe a long shot. Things learned by trying can have
all sorts of extra benefits too.
best of luck,
Keith.
Rex Alexander
Ruth Rootberg
I usually don't enter into the public debates; the multiplicity of words without either visuals, personal eye to eye contact, hands-on, or other observations becomes unwieldy for me, but I will venture forth a bit.
This first quote is Ruth, followed by Dorella's comment:
<"he would ask himself not to scratch until he got to a certain intersection" : I find this behavior deeply goal oriented and I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress. I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead...>
Let me first say that when he told me of his strategy, I thought - this isn't really what I mean by inhibition - this is a strategy, but if it's working for him, so be it. My goal as an Alexander Technique teacher is to teach the principles of the AT, but if a student reports improvement, I'm not going to argue semantics.
It did not seem the time to explain my meaning of end-gaining and the means-whereby, which, for the most part, I take to mean using the tools of inhibition and direction to reason out the process by which one attains a goal.
Ah - there is that word, goal again. If I were itching constantly, I would have a goal to cease itching. The best change would be at the source - finding what causes the itch and seeing if it can be prevented. We've already agreed, I believe, that AT does not cure eczema.
<I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress.>
Hi didn't tie his hands behind his back to ensure that, even if his hands wanted to move, they wouldn't. He used his mind to cease the action; he did not react to his impulse to scratch. That seems to be in the inhibition ballpark. By giving himself time/distance limits, he protected himself from becoming overwhelmed.
<I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead...>
When a topic like Eczema is raised, I'm not surprised when the range of information includes causes, history, remedies. What I thought the question was, and what interests me is, where does the Alexander Technique come in? How does it/can it interface with this particular condition? I hope Sandra is getting the information she needs to carry on with her student.
Regards,
Ruth Rootberg, M.AmSAT
RRoo...@comcast.net
413 687-7566
Certified Teacher and Member of
The American Society for the Alexander Technique
www.AmSATonline.org
To: alex...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "sandra riddell" <sandra....@talktalk.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:25:41 AM
Subject: Re: [alextech-list] Eczema
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Keith Bacon
On 15 February 2012 14:03, Ruth Rootberg <rroo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ... What I thought the question
> was, and what interests me is, where does the Alexander Technique come in?
> How does it/can it interface with this particular condition? I hope Sandra
> is getting the information she needs to carry on with her student.
Mainly I hope the student finds some way to get some help with eczma.
When I was using AT to help rid myself of RSI I found very few AT
teachers had any knowledge of areas with some overlap to their own.
When I gave up AT due to lack of money I eventually found my way to
other things but am still unimpressed by no-one having been able to
direct me towards them.
This comes from AT being viewed as 'not a therapy'. In general good
therapists are interested in the health of their client and will send
people on to methods they feel may be more beneficial than their own -
and they try to be aware of related methods.
But when the pupil is seeking AT for therapeutic benefits they may
well see it differently. I guess I was rather naive in thinking that
if there were others ways my AT teachers would know about them.
regards,
Keith
John Appleton
You have written an educational and very well-argued piece . It didn't
seem at all "unwieldy" for you, from what I can see. Come back soon.
I do want to offer a correction to one thing you say, which may not
seem significant to this thread, but it is very important to me.
> <I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead... >
> You offer an interesting substitute strategy using imagination. This might be quite effective, but I don't know that I could say it was either inhibition or direction. So it is not an really part of the Alexander Technique.
main AT teacher's hands on me as I directed. That mental image, which
in that case arrived automatically (until I began to induce it for a
while), was very useful, it seems, to bringing me up. No question in
my mind . It brought kinesthetic "color" to my direction. I have since
developed considerable specifically designed, consciously controlled
(shall we say), visual (and tactile-kinesthetic images) that direct
and inhibit quite nicely, all at once. Unless absolutely nothing that
is developed after FM's death is allowed to become part of "the
Alexander Technique," then it should be considered a valuable
contribution to psycho-physical reeduction. To repeat, my imagery is
not something that shows up (like a habit), it is a form of direction
that inhibits as it directs. Dorella knows my imagery pretty well.
Maybe she will speak to the question.
Thanks again,
John Appleton
http://posturereleaseimagery.org/
On Feb 15, 8:03 am, Ruth Rootberg <rrootb...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Dear Dorella,
>
> I usually don't enter into the public debates; the multiplicity of words without either visuals, personal eye to eye contact, hands-on, or other observations becomes unwieldy for me, but I will venture forth a bit.
>
> This first quote is Ruth, followed by Dorella's comment:
> <"he would ask himself not to scratch until he got to a certain intersection" : I find this behavior deeply goal oriented and I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress. I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead...>
>
> I can report that in reading "I find this behavior deeply goal oriented" I question whether by "goal oriented" you accuse my student of "end-gaining." And if so, do I have culpability; the inference that I would announce what he did denotes my tacit approval of end-gaining.
>
> Let me first say that when he told me of his strategy, I thought - this isn't really what I mean by inhibition - this is a strategy, but if it's working for him, so be it. My goal as an Alexander Technique teacher is to teach the principles of the AT, but if a student reports improvement, I'm not going to argue semantics.
>
> It did not seem the time to explain my meaning of end-gaining and the means-whereby, which, for the most part, I take to mean using the tools of inhibition and direction to reason out the process by which one attains a goal.
>
> Ah - there is that word, goal again. If I were itching constantly, I would have a goal to cease itching. The best change would be at the source - finding what causes the itch and seeing if it can be prevented. We've already agreed, I believe, that AT does not cure eczema.
>
> <I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress.>
> Your objection seems to be based on a prediction that my student's strategy would make things worse for him. That doesn't seem the case. He didn't return saying: "You know, I managed to stop the scratching, but it really cost me in my overall self." He reported the relief of not having to scratch. Because if he stops scratching, he is not stimulating more itching.
>
> Hi didn't tie his hands behind his back to ensure that, even if his hands wanted to move, they wouldn't. He used his mind to cease the action; he did not react to his impulse to scratch. That seems to be in the inhibition ballpark. By giving himself time/distance limits, he protected himself from becoming overwhelmed.
>
> <I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead... >
> You offer an interesting substitute strategy using imagination. This might be quite effective, but I don't know that I could say it was either inhibition or direction. So it is not an really part of the Alexander Technique.
>
> When a topic like Eczema is raised, I'm not surprised when the range of information includes causes, history, remedies. What I thought the question was, and what interests me is, where does the Alexander Technique come in? How does it/can it interface with this particular condition? I hope Sandra is getting the information she needs to carry on with her student.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ruth Rootberg, M.AmSAT
>
> www.alexandertechnique.com/amherst
>
> Certified Teacher and Member of
> The American Society for the Alexander Techniquewww.AmSATonline.org
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dorella Belle" <dorella.be...@gmail.com>
> To: alex...@googlegroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [alextech-list] Eczema
>
> Hi Sandra and Ruth:
> clearly this is not AT but I think that it can be reformulated in some way inside AT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkI4S9IqrXI
>
> "he would ask himself not to scratch until he got to a certain intersection" : I find this behavior deeply goal oriented and I think that refraining from scratching could result in generating more tension and stress. I would have tried to learn to scratch (or better to massage myself) with my "mental image" of my hands instead...
> or your hands, Sandra, since the thing worked so well during your lessons!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AlexTech Mail List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to alextech+u...@googlegroups.com.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sandra
Thank you for your thoughts and ideas, they have opened up useful avenues to offer, given that eczema seems to be a b@@@er of a condition to treat.
Given Rex's definition, can we be so definite as to say it is not caused by stress? - of course it is never a simple linear connection, but just as we might say that backache and headaches and indigestion and lots of other things may be 'caused' by stress for some people, that we each have our 'weak spots' where 'stress' (or rather, strain) shows up - and this may be the skin for some people. What is the difference between a 'cause' and a 'trigger'? - it's semantics really, isn't it?
But when helping somebody to consider whether it might help, these discussions have flagged up the value of emphasising the success AT can have in changing habits - whether those of scratching or of reaction to life in general, since many enquirers are already aware of a general possibility of 'reducing stress', but in my experience, before lessons they mostly just associate that with 'learning to relax'.
I agree, Keith, the first priority is to find an appropriate treatment if possible, although of course she has been down that road herself, see first sentence above. She has booked an introductory lesson, we'll see how it goes.
Sandra