A-33 engine

[John Vallely]

According to the article posted on the Alajuela 33 page by Rod G., the 33 came with a 27 HP Pisces.

Anybody know of any other engines used in the original build? I have a 27 horse Westerbeke in mine and I'm curious to know whether it's original, and what company actually built that engine. Apparently Westerbekes are often marinized engines from other manufacturers, painted red.

John V.

[Perry and Marlene Bartram]

Hi ,we have Faith a 1981 A-33 hull#34.I have much of the original paperwork and sales brochures and options listings that came w/ our boat.there was a 5,900$ power option that included a Westerbeke 27 engine which is what is in our Faith. I believe the block is Mitsubishi and the alternator is also Mitsubishi.the block is K4D,so I believe you are correct that it’s a marinized Mitsubishi given the westerbeke  name.Hope this is helpful.Perry

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[John Vallely]

That's very helpful, Perry. Thank you.

'K4D' is on my block, too, and apparently there is a Mitsubishi K4D engine. It also says '1.305L' which is the engine displacement, and under the dipstick, '0521 L'--I don't know what that means.

Now I'll see if Mitsubishi parts are available for it that are less expensive than Westerbeke's are. An on-line parts manual would be nice to find, too, just to compare it with the W'beke manuals from their website.

How has your engne held up?

John

 

 

On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:18:41 PM UTC-4, perry wrote:

Hi ,we have Faith a 1981 A-33 hull#34.I have much of the original paperwork and sales brochures and options listings that came w/ our boat.there was a 5,900$ power option that included a Westerbeke 27 engine which is what is in our Faith. I believe the block is Mitsubishi and the alternator is also Mitsubishi.the block is K4D,so I believe you are correct that it’s a marinized Mitsubishi given the westerbeke  name.Hope this is helpful.Perry

[Perry and Marlene Bartram]

It has 2900 hrs and is still very strong.the original owner was I think a knowledgable diesel person.I added a 2^nd racor filter and mad a polishing  system .I think it’s a great engine but you have to stay on top of zincs.

If you find an online Mitsubishi parts manual please let me know.Perry

From: alajue...@googlegroups.com [mailto:alajue...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vallely
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 6:28 PM
To: alajue...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A-33 engine

 

That's very helpful, Perry. Thank you.

'K4D' is on my block, too, and apparently there is a Mitsubishi K4D engine. It also says '1.305L' which is the engine displacement, and under the dipstick, '0521 L'--I don't know what that means.

Now I'll see if Mitsubishi parts are available for it that are less expensive than Westerbeke's are. An on-line parts manual would be nice to find, too, just to compare it with the W'beke manuals from their website.

How has your engne held up?

John

 

 

On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:18:41 PM UTC-4, perry wrote:

Hi ,we have Faith a 1981 A-33 hull#34.I have much of the original paperwork and sales brochures and options listings that came w/ our boat.there was a 5,900$ power option that included a Westerbeke 27 engine which is what is in our Faith. I believe the block is Mitsubishi and the alternator is also Mitsubishi.the block is K4D,so I believe you are correct that it’s a marinized Mitsubishi given the westerbeke  name.Hope this is helpful.Perry

From: alajue...@googlegroups.com [mailto:alajue...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Vallely
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:00 PM
To: alajue...@googlegroups.com
Subject: A-33 engine

 

According to the article posted on the Alajuela 33 page by Rod G., the 33 came with a 27 HP Pisces.

Anybody know of any other engines used in the original build? I have a 27 horse Westerbeke in mine and I'm curious to know whether it's original, and what company actually built that engine. Apparently Westerbekes are often marinized engines from other manufacturers, painted red.

John V.

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[Rod Jermain]

Hi Everyone-
The Alajuela 33 was originally speced out for a Pisces 27 HP 2 cylinder
diesel which was a marinized Japanese Isuzu industrial /truck engine.
Why do you have a Westerbeke rather than a Pisces? I can only suspect
that it was probably due to the early 1980s economic climate. At that
time inflation was pretty high. Prime rate was around 21 percent so
dealer inventories were kept low. Boat builders therefore had to get
suitable engines from any where they could find them in stock. I
personally don�t remember installing Westerbekes so that probably
occurred after I had left Alajuela.

All the small marine diesels used a major manufacturer's industrial
engine with added sea water heat exchangers, marine transmissions, salt
water pumps and marine exhaust manifolds added on to make them suitable
for marine use and then added their own label. Compared with the
industrial market (trucks, tractors, oil well pumps, generators etc.),
low HP marine engines are a very tiny segment of the market. It wasn't
until the 90s that some of the major manufacturers started selling small
marine diesels under their own brand name.

I believe Westerbeke at that time used Kubota tractor engines for their
smaller marine engines. The Kubotas are very reliable engines and would
be ideal for the 33.
I�ve attached a brochure for the Westerbeke W27 engine which was in use
in the early 80s and I suspect may be your engine. Check the brochure
and see if it matches up. If so, there are manuals available for this
model at http://www.westerbeke.com/Products/OnlineManuals.aspx

In the model category window click on �Westerbeke Engines� and scroll
down to W27

There are 3 manuals available for the W27

W 27 Operator's Manual 32363_13-33_Operator_Manual.pdf
W 27 Parts Manual 32139_rev4_13-33_Parts_List.pdf
W 27 Technical Manual 43440_Rev2_4Cylinder_Tech_Man.pdf

Parts on these conversions were pretty standard so you should be able to
still get them and engine parts from Westerbeke. There are tons of
Kubota diesels around so the engine parts might also be available from a
Kubota dealer.
Best regards,
- Rod

[John Vallely]

Thank you for responding, Rod.

Is it possible that the engine could be a Mitsubishi rather than a Kubota?  "K4D" is embossed on the block, and there is a Mitsubishi K4D engine.

My reason for the original post is that I want to find a source of parts other then Westerbeke, which is notoriously expenive. For instance, Torreson's website sells the W-27 head gasket for $202.95; KCW Tractor Parts sells a Mitsubishi K4D head gasket--which looks just like the one in the parts book--for $71.87. If it's indeed the same part, the difference is pretty shocking.

I'm a big fan of Kubota tractors, but I can't find a K4D under that name so far. Is it possible that it is a MItsubishi engine? (Or, might the K. and M. engines be the same?)

I'm glad to learn what "marinization" of the engine actually entails. I figured some components would need to be changed out for marine use, but it sounds like the  short block and head assemblies are the same as for 'terrestrial' engines.

John V.

 

[Rod Jermain]

Hi John -
It's quite possible that your engine is a Mitsubishi. We know it is
a Westerbeke so the first thing to do is to determine out which
Westerbeke model it is. In my last email there was a link to
Westerbeke manuals
http://www.westerbeke.com/Products/OnlineManuals.aspx I would look at
the engines in the 25 to 30 HP range and by studying the diagrams in
their manuals try to determine the Westerbeke model number of your
engine. Look for publication dates of the manual for a clue to the year
the engine was produced. Also look for items like the number of
cylinders, location of the injector pump, oil filter , freah water
pump, etc. (the items that would have been included on the original
manufacturer's long block.) Also the location of the engine mounts and
how they attach to the block. Once you have determined Westerbeke's
model number, then obtain from the Westerbeke manual the specifications
for the engine. Things like bore size and stroke, number of bearings
etc. should help you compare it with the industrial version of the
engine you are looking for.
When you determine the Westerbeke model number of your engine, let me
know and I'll see what I can find out. Unfortunately most of my good
engine contacts have retired or passed on.

i just picked the W27 engine as it was the Westerbeke engine of the
correct HP being offered in the early 80s. I really can't say for sure
whether the W27 is a Kubota or not so compare it with your engine too.
As I mentioned due to the economic times of the early 80s a lot of
changes were happening. For example, Pisces changed over to French
Peugeot blocks because Isuzu (seeing Pisces success in the marine diesel
market) decided to market marine diesels through their own outlets. If
a marine engine company (like Westerbeke) changes model numbers of the
same HP is a clue that they may have changed block suppliers. (of course
it can also mean that the original engine manufacturer has come out with
a new model! :) Pricing of Marinized engine parts is always high as it
starts with the original engine manufacturers part price to which is
added the the Marinizer's markup, the distributor's markup, the local
marine store's markup, one price for the engine mechanics and a higher
price to the end user, the yacht owner, so the mechanics can make a
little on the parts. If you can find out where you can get industrial
parts for your engine you save big time.
Most all other parts are generic to the marine industry. Raw water pumps
are usually either Sherwood or Jabsco. Heat exchangers and oil coolers
are mostly Sen-dure http://www.sen-dure.com/catalog.htm
- Rod

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[John Vallely]

Again, thanks, Rod. I know it's a W-27, and the next trip to the boat I'll get more numbers off the engine and take you up on your kind offer.

The engine acted up on a trip recently. I fixed it OK but I didn't enjoy confronting my ignorance. So it's time to read Nigel Calder and line up some parts sources.

Nothing against the current W'beke outlet, but it bugs the hell out of me to get beat up on prices just because I don't know where else to go.

John

[Rod Jermain]

Hi John-
I made some calls to mechanic friends of mine to see what I could
find out on the K4D and also got hold of a K4D Parts schematic which I
have attached. I reduced the scans to a lower resolution so I could
email them but have in higher resolution if you need it. The K4D
engine apparently was used by a lot of people on different
applications. It was used for tractors, forklifts, and by Toro for
golf course mowers. One of the comments I got was "Mitsubishi parts
aren't cheap!" (I didn't mention Westerbeke's pricing!) I was referred
to this website as a good "on line" source for Mitsubishi parts.

NCW Tractor Parts
4345 Corporate Center Drive Suite 201
North Las Vegas, NV 89030
PH: (866) 582-1172
Fax: (702) 655-1177
Website: www.ncwtractorparts.com/
Info: sa...@ncwtractorparts.com

As most of the "marinization" parts are Westerbeke , probably only "long
block" parts might be available from Mitsubishi. If I receive any more
info I'll pass it on to you.
- Rod

[John Vallely]

Rod, It was good of you to get back to me with that information. It's just what I was after. I was at the boat today and checked the serial no.(1679--must be pretty early in the series) and was going to get back to you with it this evening. But the info you sent covers my engine and will allow me to shop around for the best prices. I'm also going to see what info is out there about that engine in general--it's history, reliability, etc. I'll post anything I find that's of potential interest.
I can't get over the price difference. But now I can carry a few engine spares for about a third what W'beke parts would have cost.

Thanks again.

John

[Rod Jermain]

Hi John-
Today I heard back from one of my mechanic friends who said as best he
could remember, the W27 had a sea water cooling pump made by Johnson Pump.
Here is a link to their catalog
http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPMarine/PDF_docs/Marine-Catalogue-US.pdf
It has a lot of diagrams and info so maybe you can identify your pump from
them. From what i see Westerbeke has done a good job of keeping their
suppliers secret as most of the mechanical guys I have talked to said it
was (for them) just easier to order parts from Westerbeke (most
Westerbeke carry the parts in stock) rather than try to run down the
original supplier. (I guess from the mechanics standpoint this makes
sense as "the owner" pays for the parts :) If I get any more
information I will pass it along to you.
- Rod

[John Vallely]

I seem to recall that is was a Johnson pump. Thanks for the link to their catalog.

I read someplace on the web that dealers who sell parts for engines that Westerbeke used won't tell you they have the part you ask for if you tell them it's for a W'beke. Don't know if it's true or not, but it corroborates your observation re: secrecy.

Kind of makes you want to buy parts from the original manufacturer's supplier just for the satisfaction of getting around Westerbeke, doesn't it?

Thanks again for this info. Next time I'm at NAPA or Advanced Auto I'm going to ask them about Mitsubishi diesel parts. Believe it or not, those guys still carry parts for my 1951 Ford tractor and my 1959 MG.

John