Trying out the name fields

[Lianne]

Hey all!

 

I've followed this group's discussions on the name fields, but never actually had reason to use them before, so I'm not at all confident in my ability to do so. :) So, I've been looking at the royal family a bit (I'm Canadian, so by "the" royal family I mean the English one, lol), and trying to see if the names are right. So I'm looking at the Queen's profile right now: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Windsor-72 Please don't do anything for me! I'm trying to learn! :)

 

Here's what's currently in her name fields:

Prefix: Queen

Proper first name: Elizabeth

Preferred first name: Elizabeth II

Other nicknames:

Middle name: Alexandra Mary

LNAB: Windsor

Current last name: Windsor

Other last names: Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Suffix:

 

So, her first name, middle names, and LNAB are all straightforward enough. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Queen is correct as a prefix because her first name at birth is Elizabeth and she's called Queen Elizabeth. For the preferred first name, I think Elizabeth II makes sense, right? Except, I feel like Queen should be in there, but do we not put that there if it's in the prefix already?

 

I can't figure out what should be in the current last name field. Technically the Queen doesn't really have a last name. She's in the House of Windsor, but no one would call her Elizabeth II Windsor, so I find it weird that that's what shows up at the top of the page.

 

And then, for the Other last names, I think that should be changed to Queen of the Commonwealth realms, since that's her actual title. She's the Queen of Canada as much as she's the Queen of England.

 

Feedback, please! :)

 

~Lianne

[Kathy Patterson]

The prefix is wrong. Titles of royalty are not to be used as prefixes, although Sir or Dame would be appropriate. This has been stated repeatedly, although things do get changed and I don't look at explanation pages every day.

I would put of England as Current Last Name, per discussion of a couple of weeks ago,

And Queen of etc. as nickname. I would also put Lilibet as nickname, or whatever she was called as a child. Elizabeth I would be Good Queen Bess as nickname.

Kathy

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Lianne <lianne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey all!

 

I've followed this group's discussions on the name fields, but never actually had reason to use them before, so I'm not at all confident in my ability to do so. :) So, I've been looking at the royalfamily a bit (I'm Canadian, so by "the" royal family I mean the English one, lol), and trying to see if the names are right. So I'm looking at the Queen's profile right now: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Windsor-72 Please don't do anything for me! I'm trying to learn! :)

 

 THere's what's currently in her name fields:

Prefix: Queen

Proper first name: Elizabeth

Preferred first name: Elizabeth II

Other nicknames:

Middle name: Alexandra Mary

LNAB: Windsor

Current last name: Windsor

Other last names: Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Suffix:

 

So, her first name, middle names, and LNAB are all straightforward enough. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Queen is correct as a prefix because her first name at birth is Elizabeth and she's called Queen Elizabeth. For the preferred first name, I think Elizabeth II makes sense, right? Except, I feel like Queen should be in there, but do we not put that there if it's in the prefix already?

 

I can't figure out what should be in the current last name field. Technically the Queen doesn't really have a last name. She's in the House of Windsor, but no one would call her Elizabeth II Windsor, so I find it weird that that's what shows up at the top of the page.

 

And then, for the Other last names, I think that should be changed to Queen of the Commonwealth realms, since that's her actual title. She's the Queen of Canada as much as she's the Queen of England.

 

Feedback, please! :)

 

~Lianne

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[Chris Whitten]

For reference: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Name_Fields_for_European_Aristocrats

I think the source of the prefix confusion is that our explanation for
why "Queen" isn't an appropriate prefix is because it can't always be
paired with the Proper First Name at birth. But we should clarify that
even in cases where it could be paired with the Proper First Name, it
still shouldn't be used as a prefix, for consistency.

Chris

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[Lianne Lavoie]

Ah, OK. Yeah, that explanation had me thinking it was ok in this case. Alright. So Preferred last name then becomes "Queen Elizabeth II"?

 

Is Queen of the Commonwealth realms supposed to be a nickname or an alternate last name? I don't see that in the name field guidelines.

 

~Lianne

Lianne Lavoie, BCSc
An Effort in Green

Stories of a Canadian Family

Follow me on Twitter

[Roger Travis]

CLN should be "of England"; PFN should be "Elizabeth I, Queen."

Roger Travis

Associate Professor of Classics

Department of Literatures, Cultures, & Languages

University of Connecticut

roger....@uconn.edu, livingepic.org

Director, Video Games and Human Values Initiative, vghvi.org

[Roger Travis]

Sorry, "Elizabeth II, Queen."

"of the Commonwealth Realms" could be an OLN.

[Kathy Alvis Patterson]

Preferred first name: Elizabeth II

Current last name: of England
Nicknames: Queen of England, Great Britain, and Ireland, Queen of
Canada, Lilibet

No "Queen" in any first name, except for people whose parents named
them Queen, e.g., Jones-2428.

I just re-read the Catefories pages for name fields. I see Chris says
Current Last Names are being discussed again. Please, we need closure
on this! I've been re-doing names again. Someone make an executive
decision, so changes I made today (see Capua-8) don't have to be
redone again.

Kathy

>>> *Lianne Lavoie, BCSc*
>>> An Effort in Green <http://an-effort-in-green.blogspot.com/>
>>> Stories of a Canadian
>>> Family<http://storiesofacanadianfamily.blogspot.com/>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roger Travis
>> Associate Professor of Classics
>> Department of Literatures, Cultures, & Languages
>> University of Connecticut
>> roger....@uconn.edu, livingepic.org
>> Director, Video Games and Human Values Initiative, vghvi.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Roger Travis
> Associate Professor of Classics
> Department of Literatures, Cultures, & Languages
> University of Connecticut
> roger....@uconn.edu, livingepic.org
> Director, Video Games and Human Values Initiative, vghvi.org
>

[Lianne Lavoie]

Hmm. Apparently this is more complicated than I thought. :)

 

Why is the CLN "of England"? Is that always just where the person is from? Or, if it's for the sake of her title showing up properly at the top of the page, then shouldn't the CLN be "of the Commonwealth realms"?

~Lianne

[Roger Travis]

We came to consensus that CLN would represent what the person was known by most frequently.

[Lianne Lavoie]

OK. Is she normally called "of England"? People just call her Queen Elizabeth (in my personal experience and on Wikipedia).

 

~Lianne

[Chris Whitten]

I think this thread is getting confusing. This is why using G2G
questions and answers might be better -- if one specific question is
asked at a time. The trouble often springs from multiple questions
being discussed together.

Another problem is updating the style sheets. I've been assuming
Lianne was making sure they were kept up to date, but that was
probably a poor assumption since I was doing it before. There would
also be an argument for making the group leader responsible for
maintaining the group-related style sheets. Roger? Lianne? We could
e-mail about this. It makes sense for the group to contribute to the
style sheet but one person ought to feel responsible for it.

Chris

[Kathy Alvis Patterson]

My "of England" relates to ancestors in pre-Tudor days. I guess
Elizabeth and all monarchs after James I would be more specific. We
can discount calling the Plantagenets "of England, Ireland and France"
since the French part at least was wishful thinking.

Call monarchs up to Elizabeth I "of England" and later ones according
to more modern designations. Again, use Wikipedia as a convenient
guide. Call Victoria, for example "of the United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland" as CLN, but put "Empress of India" as OLN.

Sorry for the unintentional insult to Canadians, Australians and
others. One or two of my forefathers are buried in Canadian soil.
Kathy

[Lianne Lavoie]

Chris: Is the Name Fields page not up to date? I wasn't aware that anything had changed from what it says now. Though there may be some places where we could add some detail.

 

Sorry, I guess I could have asked this question in G2G. I think we've stayed pretty on-topic though, in our defence. We're still just talking about the name fields for one person. :)

 

Kathy: No offense taken! :) I'm not particularly possessive of the Queen, lol. I'm just looking for the best CLN.

 

~Lianne

[Roger Travis]

I would argue that she is normally called "Elizabeth I, Queen of England." But of course, what's normal when you're talking about this kind of thing?

[Lindsay Coleman]

Where does it say CLN is being rediscussed? If it is I am going to cry.