(Update) Intent to Implement - HTML5 by Default

[Anthony LaForge]

HTML5 by Default is still on target for release in December (Chrome 55).  Thanks to everyone for your feedback, particularly around user impact.  To this end, we plan to use Site Engagement (instead of a Top 10 list) to determine when a user would be prompted to allow the use of Flash Player.

Here’s how it works: Within Chrome, a user’s Site Engagement score ranges from 0 to 100 for each site.  This score is based upon the user’s history and is calculated using the number of repeat visits and the duration of each visit.  In Chrome, anyone can see their own Site Engagement score at chrome://site-engagement

When a user visits a site, Chrome will only prompt if the Site Engagement score is below a certain level.  To start, the threshold score will be 1 (meaning the user has visited the site at least once).  Over time this threshold will increase to 100 (in Q2 2017), and at that time any site using Flash will trigger a one-time prompt.  We are planning on using Site Engagement within Chrome, instead of a Top 10 list,

This change will minimize user impact for sites that they visit the most.  As before, users will only be prompted once per site (their choice will be remembered) and users will have full control over where Flash is allowed to run.

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

[Lawrence G]

The best tool for converting legacy Flash files into HTML5 was Swiffy, sadly withdrawn with just two weeks’ notice in mid-June. 

Swiffy wasn’t just used to translate banner ads – many educational firms (including my own) were using Swiffy to convert eLearning animations into HTML5 and missed the 1st July deadline. 

Please can Swiffy be restored? It promoted the very migration away from Flash that everyone wants. 

[larr...@yahoo.com]

Once history is cleared, all the site-engagement info is gone.

[Octavian Naicu]

Safari 10 just took a much harder stance on the issue with Flash Player turned off by default, no whitelist or Site Engagement score, and some link hijacking for good measure when one is erroneously trying to install - the already installed but turned off - Flash Player.

https://addpipe.com/blog/flash-on-safari-10-sierra/

[PhistucK]

Which makes sense.

☆PhistucK

--
--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Graham Phillips]

Hi, I'm a bit late to the party but hopefully someone here can throw some light on this.

I am trying to discover the impact of the Chrome 55 Flash changes to my employer, a gaming corporation that generates billions in revenue annually. While we have been in the process of migrating game content from Flash to HTML5 over several years, our portfolio is extensive and spread over many websites in various forms that we still have a considerable user base using Flash to generate revenue. Also in some cases (eg streaming video) Flash is arguably still the better option.

I have to determine what impact the change to Chrome 55 will have on our business in terms of disrupted user-journeys, and propose a solution. We may lose players if the content they are so used to playing no longer works as expected. One thing we have discovered in our industry is users dislike change- even if its to fix something that was 'broken'. So, to see what the impact will be I am trying to use the latest versions of the browsers that hopefully already contain the proposed change. 

With Chrome Canary (55) I am finding that with Flash set to Ask first, our Flash content just launches. No dialog, no broken plugin icon.

With Chrome 54 beta, I seem to get an inconsistent experience. On some of our sites it automatically loads the HTML5 version of our main web app, which may be an undesirable outcome for users who prefer the Flash version, while on other brands I get the broken plug-in icon and "Right-click to play Adobe Flash Player". What could be the reason for this inconsistency?

I have also been using Safari 10 in OS X Sierra in the (perhaps mistaken) belief that this will give a similar user journey to Chrome 55. On Safari 10 the user gets a Click to use Flash button, followed by a dialog to trust Flash, after which Flash content loads. This doesn't seem too bad a journey to me, but it doesn't seem to be the same as the proposal for Chrome.

I'm guessing navigator.plugins will no longer work as expected in Chrome, causing the standard flashVersionDetection.js to send the user to a message about the missing plugin and a link to download Flash. The short Google presentation that explains these changes mentioned that perhaps that link would be intercepted and the user returned to their Flash content.. is that the idea, or will it be more like the Safari experience? Is there something that we can do in terms of our server Flash embedding / detection code that could smooth the issue? It reminds me of the ActiveX filtering that MS introduced in IE9 - the industry responded with Javascript workarounds that meant users didn't have to jump through hoops to enable Flash. However I'm not even sure if there's anything we can do that will change the user journey in this case.

The site-engagement idea sounds better than a white-list, but what if the user accesses from a different computer than usual, or has cleared the cache?

 

If anyone could provide some suggestions on how I could approach the issue in terms of proposing work-arounds to my business, and investagating the impact, I'd be grateful, thanks

[Octavian Naicu]

I'm going to address specific parts of your post. 

Our decision was to remove FP detection where we have no HTML alternative and go for the simpler "Click to run" experience by directly embedding using <object>. 

I've studied and written a lot on the subject since it will affect our product too

https://addpipe.com/blog/ive-disabled-flash-for-a-week/

https://addpipe.com/blog/flash-on-safari-10-sierra/

>I have to determine what impact the change to Chrome 55 will have on our business

Chrome has an auto update system. In a month from Chrome 55's release you can expect a large portion of the Chrome user base (think 90%+) to have version 55 and since Chrome has 55% market share then roughly 50% of any site's user base will run the latest version of Chrome within a month of it's release.

>On some of our sites it automatically loads the HTML5 version of our main web app, which may be an undesirable outcome for users who prefer the Flash version, while on other brands I get the broken plug-in icon and "Right-click to play Adobe Flash Player". What could be the reason for this inconsistency?

Those sites that serve the HTML5 version use Flash Player detection (swfobject or similar). Those that don't and embed the Flash content directly using <object> and/or <embed> will show the broken plug-in icon/area + "Right-click to play Adobe Flash Player".

> have also been using Safari 10 in OS X Sierra in the (perhaps mistaken) belief that this will give a similar user journey to Chrome 55.

I found the Safari experience similar to the one expected from Chrome 55 (before the site engagement announcement). When using FP detection it will take you to the alternate/HTML version. Safari will show the "Click to use Flash" if you embed Flash directly with <object>.

In most cases the alternate version is just a link to download Flash. Safari hijacks the click (only if you already have FP installed if I remember correctly) and allows the user to run the Flash content which is very similar to the way Google presented it. The experience is VERY confusing. That's why our decision was to remove FP detection where we have no HTML alternative and go for the simpler "Click to run" experience by directly embed using <object>.

>The site-engagement idea sounds better than a white-list, but what if the user accesses from a different computer than usual, or has cleared the cache?

Clearing the history resets the scores.  Maybe Chrome could sync the scores if the user is signed in to Chrome with his Google account.

Octavian Naicu

--

--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Peter Kasting]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Octavian Naicu <naicuo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The site-engagement idea sounds better than a white-list, but what if the user accesses from a different computer than usual, or has cleared the cache?

Clearing the history resets the scores.  Maybe Chrome could sync the scores if the user is signed in to Chrome with his Google account.

If you clear history, it's probably not a good thing if the browser continues to sync data across that point that effectively shows how frequently you visit certain sites.  That would be a privacy concern.

PK 

[Octavian Naicu]

>If you clear history, it's probably not a good thing if the browser continues to sync data across that point that effectively shows how frequently you visit certain sites.  That would be a privacy concern.

Haven't thought of that but you're right.

Octavian Naicu

[Arthur Hulsman]

Question; Any idea if there is - or will be - a solution to "asking" the browser whether a user has already previously allowed or declined flash on the current site? I work on multiple gaming sites and it would be nice to educate our users on what is happening. A stupid example would be to display a bouncing arrow with some text saying that this new chrome message allows them to play their favourite games. We don't have a serious help desk, so something like this would help out our users a lot. Most of them rarely touch a computer and are on a level where they think the internet is the Chrome desktop icon... you know what i mean. 

So is there some kind of browser API to hook into?

Best regards,

Arthur

[PhistucK]

I am pretty sure there is none. Checking navigator.plugins will tell you whether it is currently enabled, but that is about it.

There might be an extension API (chrome.contentSettings), but if the user disabled Flash completely (not via content settings, but via about:plugins), that API will not tell you that.

☆PhistucK

--

--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Arthur Hulsman]

mm yeah navigator.plugins won't suffice, cause flash will be enabled for our users 100%, otherwise they couldn't play their games beforehand anyway. You still wouldn't know if the user has actually "enabled" flash on the site. 

My colleague just came up with a possible solution: we just add a 1x1 flash object on all pages, which will call an event. If it doesn't then the user hasn't enabled flash for this site/page yet. That would work i think.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Arthur Hulsman]

By the way, we really support the way how chrome is approaching flash and plugins in general. We've been preparing for over a year now, so we're ready for sure :P

[PhistucK]

But in case it is blocked, you will not see it in navigator.plugins, that is the kind of the point of this whole "HTML5 by default" plan.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

Unless you are really referring to the "Run only important Flash by default" feature, which is off topic for this thread and unrelated.

☆PhistucK

[Arthur Hulsman]

I just want to display a message, creatives, dialog or whatever, when a user tries to play a flash game on one of our gaming portals after the chrome update. I also might want to refer them to proper HTML5 content when available. Hence why i needed a way to see if they've already made a decision within the prompt to allow/ disallow the Flash Player. Don't get me wrong, we really want our users to move to on to HTML5 and fully support the upcoming chrome solution and user experience. The problem for our audience lies more with their hesitation to allow "stuff". Our users don't know what Flash is for example. They just come to play their game. A game that might not yet be available in HTML5, or might not ever be. As we're dealing with 14k games here :P Our users get right out dangerous/ furious when their is something wrong with their particular game. So educating them on what this prompt is about, would be very helpful.

☆PhistucK

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

I am just not sure I see the good difference between checking navigator.plugins and placing a small Flash object. While neither works when it is blocked, navigator.plugins will work while the small Flash might not work (because it is not deemed important). I do not remember whether unimportant Flash objects are not initialized at all, though, but, again, it does not really matter since the navigator.plugins check will always work (the user has permitted Flash on the page).

I do not think you can tell whether the user has explicitly denied Flash, though.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Arthur Hulsman]

Ah ok so how it will work is that the object field within navigator.plugins for flash will simply not be there when the user has not yet allowed flash to run on that specific site/ page? So it is correct to assume that flash as a plugin will be fully disabled coming with this chrome update?

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

It will indeed appear as "fully disabled" (or simply not installed) to websites.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Arthur Hulsman]

Ah that is perfect! Thank you!

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Adam Chace]

Was there a version of this document created with the final experience?  It would be helpful to have.

[Mohamed Bilal]

Please help me with following questions.

1) What is the minimum site engagement score, for which chrome will allows flash content? Is there any way for developers to access this for a particular site?

2) Can I test all the mentioned changes in a canary build? If it is not ready, do we have any ETA, please?

[Graham Phillips]

An update. I wasn't aware until a couple of days ago that it is possible to turn HTML5 by default on in Chrome through flags, there is an entry for Prefer HTML over Flash.  So with that enabled I have been testing some of our client's sites, and the news is not good.

When launching the main Flash app, we get our "Please click here to download the Flash Player" page. I click the link to download the player and now Chrome displays a popup for Flash: Allow/Block, as expected. I choose Allow. Nothing happens. The window is still displaying the get Flash message. Clicking the link now takes the user to the Adobe download site. I have to manually close the window, then click a launch button on the original page, and now the Flash site loads without complaint. 

So this is different to the experience described in the original explanatory document, where the page should automatically reload with the Flash content once the user clicks Allow. And it is a much worse experience than Safari 10. Is this a known issue still and are the Chrome team working to fix it? Also is it possible to easily undo the choice the user makes on the allow Flash popup? I have tried clearing cookies and cache but the original choice persists. 

Worse still I have found cases of stand-alone Flash games simply failing to load with no explanation or popup, and other embedded Flash content also failing to display. I'm simply seeing an empty div where i'd expect the Flash to be. Bearing in mind the caveat about enabling a Chrome feature with Flags, that it might not be production-ready yet- Is it possible that this behavior is a result of the feature not being finished, or am I seeing what our users will see when this goes live in December?

Any advice from the Chrome team on how to address these issues would be appreciated, thanks

[Mohamed Bilal]

Agreeing with Graham on this. For our sites, when I loaded the game, all I can see is empty white screen. I didn't get any popup too. That is really bad. It would be good if chrome team responds sooner on this.

[Adam Chace]

Can someone confirm if setting #prefer-html-over-flash to Enabled in current Canary (Version 56.0.2901.0 canary) is tantamount to simulating how Chrome 55 will ship?

The communication around this feature and its implementation leave a great deal to be desired.

[Anthony LaForge]

Yes, #prefer-html-over-flash is the correct flag to set to enable the HTML5 by Default behavior.  Currently we have the minimum Site Engagement score (SE) set to 30, which is higher than what we plan to ship in 55 where the target will be 1.  This is effectively so we can see and get feedback on the feature, while we are in active development, rather than deferring the discovery until next year when we start to ramp the score more aggressively.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

--
--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Anthony LaForge]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Graham Phillips <grimep...@gmail.com> wrote:

An update. I wasn't aware until a couple of days ago that it is possible to turn HTML5 by default on in Chrome through flags, there is an entry for Prefer HTML over Flash.  So with that enabled I have been testing some of our client's sites, and the news is not good.

When launching the main Flash app, we get our "Please click here to download the Flash Player" page. I click the link to download the player and now Chrome displays a popup for Flash: Allow/Block, as expected. I choose Allow. Nothing happens. The window is still displaying the get Flash message. Clicking the link now takes the user to the Adobe download site. I have to manually close the window, then click a launch button on the original page, and now the Flash site loads without complaint. 

The page should reload once "Allow" has been selected.  Do you have a specific site that we can try?

 

So this is different to the experience described in the original explanatory document, where the page should automatically reload with the Flash content once the user clicks Allow. And it is a much worse experience than Safari 10. Is this a known issue still and are the Chrome team working to fix it? Also is it possible to easily undo the choice the user makes on the allow Flash popup? I have tried clearing cookies and cache but the original choice persists.

The user can configure the feature in two locations: 1.) From the site settings (lock icon) there is an option to control the Flash setting 2.) From chrome://settings/content - Flash.

 

 

Worse still I have found cases of stand-alone Flash games simply failing to load with no explanation or popup, and other embedded Flash content also failing to display. I'm simply seeing an empty div where i'd expect the Flash to be. Bearing in mind the caveat about enabling a Chrome feature with Flags, that it might not be production-ready yet- Is it possible that this behavior is a result of the feature not being finished, or am I seeing what our users will see when this goes live in December?

Example pages would be very helpful.

 

Any advice from the Chrome team on how to address these issues would be appreciated, thanks

[Mohamed Bilal]

Hi Anthony,

Flash is simply not loading without any explanation in Farmville2 game when site engagement is low. It is reproducible in zyngagames.com and farmville-2 facebook app. Please check.

Steps to reproduce: (zyngagames.com)

1) Enable "Prefer-html-over-flash"

2) Log in to zyngagames.com and goto url - http://zyngagames.com/play/farmville-two?src=zdc&aff=homepage&crt=main_tile&cam=118

Expected Result:

A popup asking to allow flash should be displayed and game should load after giving permissions

Actual:

A whitescreen or an empty div appears. Game doesn't load. No popup about flash appears in chrome.

Steps to reproduce: (facebook farmville 2 app)

1) Enable "Prefer-html-over-flash"

2) Make sure site engagement is low

3) Log in to zyngagames.com and goto url - https://apps.facebook.com/farmville-two/

Expected Result:

A popup asking to allow flash should be displayed and game should load

Actual:

A whitescreen or an empty div appears. Game doesn't load and no popup about flash appears in chrome.

Regards,
Bilal

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

Sorry, I do not have a user, so I cannot test it - but are you sure they even have a fallback option? Perhaps they just assume you have Flash and do not bother with a fallback or a download link.

You can try by simply disabling Flash in about:plugins.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Roney Stein]

Anthony,

The UI implementation in Chrome 55 Beta is different from the original proposal. Now, if your Flash content is too small or invisible, the user won't note the need for Flash, it just isn't going to work.

The original proposal included a banner on top of the page alerting the user about the need of Flash plugin.

I was just reviewing the proposal and then, it started being updated to conform to the actual implementation.

That's too bad when you're using the design docs to plan for the future.

[Anthony LaForge]

Updated the feature presentation to reflect the current state of HBD with the production screen captures (i.e. removed my old mocks), added a section on how to enable the experiment, and some misc. updates of the text to reflect the current behavior of the feature (including details about Site Engagement).

The two biggest differences between the original proposal and the current implementation:

• The yellow infobar has been replaced w/ the now more standard "Site Settings" bubble.
• (As reflected in this update) We are not shipping w/ any form of a whitelist and will instead be using Site Engagement to more gently phase in the feature to end users.

For posterity, we also made an archive of the original presentation/ proposal.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

--

[Graham Phillips]

It is probably not possible for us to provide URL's to test because you need an account (with credit card etc) to access all our content, and also I think you cannot access us from the States (online gambling issues). Mohamed's example sounds similar to ours though. 

[Mohamed Bilal]

BTW I followed latest presentation from Anthony and simulated HBD by resetting site-engagement values. It worked as expected in apps.facebook.com (Got a "click to enable flash", a further popup at top left to allow flash and game loaded fine after allowing flash). Anyway I'm seeing issue only at zyngagames.com and am cross checking if there are any issues at our end. 

@Phistuck - You could use facebook login and create a user at zyngagames.com

Regards,

Bilal

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Graham Phillips <grimep...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is probably not possible for us to provide URL's to test because you need an account (with credit card etc) to access all our content, and also I think you cannot access us from the States (online gambling issues). Mohamed's example sounds similar to ours though. 

--

[Graham Phillips]

One thing worth mentioning is we don't see the broken plugin for Flash as per the updated presentation. I get it on one of our client's top level sites where there is Flash content on the home page. Most of our Flash content is launched in pop up windows, so perhaps that is clue as to where the problem lies. Instead of the broken plugin, our Flash detection code shows our Download Flash page. I think we're going to need to change our Flash content embedding/plugin detection code somehow, however it is pretty standard stuff, so I'm not sure how it needs to change.

[PhistucK]

I know, but it is the same as creating a user, which I do not want to do. I do not want to provide any of my details to that website.

☆PhistucK

[Graham Phillips]

Just a thought to throw out there...  has the Chrome team looked at how Flash content embedded with https://github.com/swfobject/swfobject behaves with prefer HTML5 set? We use it in certain circumstances, and I get missing Flash content with no help from the browser to enable it in those cases.

[PhistucK]

Do you show the user a Flash Player download link? Do you click on it?

If the answer to one of the above is "no", the bubble will not be shown.

☆PhistucK

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Graham Phillips <grimep...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just a thought to throw out there...  has the Chrome team looked at how Flash content embedded with https://github.com/swfobject/swfobject behaves with prefer HTML5 set? We use it in certain circumstances, and I get missing Flash content with no help from the browser to enable it in those cases.

[Octavian Naicu]

My recommendation is to remove SWFObject from your Flash embeds, at least for Chrome 55 and Safari 10. 

SWFObject will not detect Flash Player's presence anymore and thus tell the user to download Flash Player usually with a link. Clicking the link will bring up a pop up saying "sitesoandso.com wants to use Flash" with the options Block and Allow which is rather confusing since you were just told that Flash Player is not installed.

If you embed Flash directly using embed/object tags  Chrome will gray out the Flash area and tell the user to "Click to enable Adobe Flash Player". The whole gray area is clickable. A single click refreshes the page and the option is remembered. This experience is a lot simpler to go through, easier to understand and less confusing.

Safari 10 treats Flash Player in much the same way: https://addpipe.com/blog/flash-on-safari-10-sierra/

Octavian Naicu

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Graham Phillips <grimep...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just a thought to throw out there...  has the Chrome team looked at how Flash content embedded with https://github.com/swfobject/swfobject behaves with prefer HTML5 set? We use it in certain circumstances, and I get missing Flash content with no help from the browser to enable it in those cases.

--
--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Or Shavit]

In your presentation, you mention that:

"To avoid over-prompting users, the feature will only be enabled for a given site if the current Site Engagement score is below our minimum engagement threshold score (initial set to 1 and increasing to 100 by July, 2017)."

Do you expect this threshold to go up with every major Chrome version release (i.e 56, 57, etc.) or can we expect this threshold to be updated in-between major releases as well?

Thanks!

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Graham Phillips]

So... the problem seems to be the variety of techniques used to embed Flash content in a web page. I think I've figured out some of our problems, and they might be solvable with changes to the Flash embedding code we use. Given that there are various methods in the wild such as AC_FL_RunContent, swfobject, and bespoke solutions, perhaps the Chrome team could give an indication or guidance of what is the best method to use that will play well with Chrome 55. 

[PhistucK]

I reckon it will probably depend on the metrics that will be reported.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Graham Phillips]

Does anyone else ever get the Confirm Form Resubmission dialog after clicking Allow Flash in the bubble dialog? I've got Flash content reloading automatically as expected, but getting that dialog which can lead to an unnecessary reload.

[PhistucK]

Is it a resubmission? Do you get to that page via a POST request?

☆PhistucK

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Graham Phillips <grimep...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone else ever get the Confirm Form Resubmission dialog after clicking Allow Flash in the bubble dialog? I've got Flash content reloading automatically as expected, but getting that dialog which can lead to an unnecessary reload.

--

[Graham Phillips]

Yeah, I realised after that it was a POST..  its launched from a client's portal that contains a ton of scripts on, so hard to see what's going on there. But yeah, if we can switch to GET that could solve it.

[Mohamed Bilal]

Hi Anthony,

I'm seeing intermittent issues with the way flash app is handled whenever I modify site exceptions of flash  in chrome settings. It is just showing a whitescreen instead of a clickable grey area to enable flash. Details available at https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=664040. Please get this fixed.

Regards,
Bilal

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Mohamed Bilal]

BTW, redirecting to adobe flash site is intercepted correctly and "allow flash" popup was shown. We're going ahead with that solution. Other sites loading flash directly will have an issue.

[Mohamed Bilal]

Hi Anthony,

We saw an issue with navigator.plugins property while simulating chrome HBD. Details available at https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=665381

Could you please help us with the issue?

Regards,
Bilal

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 2:56:40 AM UTC+5:30, Anthony LaForge wrote:

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Or Shavit]

Hi Anthony,

Chrome 55 is due in a couple of weeks and there were several issues raised in this forum that have remained unanswered.

Can you please share some more info as to your plans to change the initial threshold? Will it go up with every major Chrome version release (i.e 56, 57, etc.) or can we expect this threshold to be updated in-between major releases as well?

Thanks!

On Wednesday, 21 September 2016 00:36:39 UTC+3, Anthony LaForge wrote:

HTML5 by Default is still on target for release in December (Chrome 55).  Thanks to everyone for your feedback, particularly around user impact.  To this end, we plan to use Site Engagement (instead of a Top 10 list) to determine when a user would be prompted to allow the use of Flash Player.

Here’s how it works: Within Chrome, a user’s Site Engagement score ranges from 0 to 100 for each site.  This score is based upon the user’s history and is calculated using the number of repeat visits and the duration of each visit.  In Chrome, anyone can see their own Site Engagement score at chrome://site-engagement

When a user visits a site, Chrome will only prompt if the Site Engagement score is below a certain level.  To start, the threshold score will be 1 (meaning the user has visited the site at least once).  Over time this threshold will increase to 100 (in Q2 2017), and at that time any site using Flash will trigger a one-time prompt.  We are planning on using Site Engagement within Chrome, instead of a Top 10 list,

This change will minimize user impact for sites that they visit the most.  As before, users will only be prompted once per site (their choice will be remembered) and users will have full control over where Flash is allowed to run.

[PhistucK]

I do not know for sure, obviously, but the Chrome team is generally reluctant (for good reasons, obviously) to make non critical (security issues or significant bug fixes) changes in between major releases. So I believe it will only be increased with every major version.

☆PhistucK

--

--
Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org
View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Joel Beasley]

Hi,

Can someone please confirm whether the "Prefer HTML over Flash" flag will be set to Enabled by default when Chrome 55 goes live? As it appears to be set to Default in the current Beta, which provides a vastly different user experience for our customers across our various websites.

In other words, can someone please confirm if the Site Engagement score be used to alter the Flash experience in Chrome 55 when it goes live?

Thanks

Joel

[Anthony LaForge]

Hi Joel,

We are going ahead with a 1% experiment on Chrome 55 Stable, starting in early December.  Based on the results from that deployment we intend on formally launching HTML5 by Default to all users in Chrome 56 (end of January).

When we launch in December, the minimum Site Engagement score will be 1, and we will gradually increase the threshold through 2017, starting in February.  We're also contemplating extending the ramp period through Sept/October, 2017 (originally from July, 2017), to give developers a little more time to make migrations.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

--

[Octavian Naicu]

Thank you for the heads up Anthony.

Octavian Naicu

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Joel Beasley]

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for responding and the information! 

Apologies if my further question below sounds pedantic but it's really important for our customers, as we use a lot of games suppliers with Flash content who are in the process of converting over to HTML5 but I'm sure you can appreciate that's not a quick process.

So just for the avoidance of doubt - please can you confirm 1% of the entire Chrome 55 customer base will have the flag chrome://flags/#prefer-html-over-flash set to enabled, and the other 99% won't until Chrome 56?

Thanks

Joel

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Arthur Hulsman]

Anthony, are you sure? I am 99% sure that a Flash A/B test is already happening on Chrome 54. Some of my colleagues and users already have Flash disabled for certain cases. Whats even more special is that this test doesn't contain the user flow from Canary. Its something else:

When you load an .swf as the source of an iframe - so no embedding or swfobject solutions; then Flash won't initiate. When we embed the Flash its fine. I know you shouldn't load an swf file like that, hence why i mention "certain cases" :P

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Anthony LaForge]

Hi Arthur,

The feature is only present on 55+.  Please see today's blog post which elaborate on our roll out schedule.

Please note: That we did release a change in Chrome 53/54, which blocks small cross origin Flash content (typically used for tracking pixels). Perhaps that's related to what you are describing.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Jon Keefer]

Hi Anthony,

I manage a game site where it will be impossible to migrate all of our legacy content over to HTML5 from flash.

I have a few questions about detecting/modifying the UX for enabling flash:

1. Are we able to detect when a user has allowed, blocked or set flash to ask before running on the site?
2. Are we able to customize the user experience when the user must click to enable flash? To what extent can we modify the flash content overlay and/or the popup that appears under the address bar?

Thanks!

Jon

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

1. You can only detect the first (it will exist in navigator.plugins).

2. No.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Giovanni Cespedes]

I have noticed that with the new HTML5 player site owners videos have a download button by default with no way to remove or hide it? Is there any work around for this?

Thank you!

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:36:39 PM UTC-4, Anthony LaForge wrote:

HTML5 by Default is still on target for release in December (Chrome 55).  Thanks to everyone for your feedback, particularly around user impact.  To this end, we plan to use Site Engagement (instead of a Top 10 list) to determine when a user would be prompted to allow the use of Flash Player.

Here’s how it works: Within Chrome, a user’s Site Engagement score ranges from 0 to 100 for each site.  This score is based upon the user’s history and is calculated using the number of repeat visits and the duration of each visit.  In Chrome, anyone can see their own Site Engagement score at chrome://site-engagement

When a user visits a site, Chrome will only prompt if the Site Engagement score is below a certain level.  To start, the threshold score will be 1 (meaning the user has visited the site at least once).  Over time this threshold will increase to 100 (in Q2 2017), and at that time any site using Flash will trigger a one-time prompt.  We are planning on using Site Engagement within Chrome, instead of a Top 10 list,

This change will minimize user impact for sites that they visit the most.  As before, users will only be prompted once per site (their choice will be remembered) and users will have full control over where Flash is allowed to run.

[PhistucK]

You can star crbug.com/650174 for updates.

☆PhistucK

--

[Octavian Naicu]

We've upgraded 2 computers to Chrome 56 stable (56.0.2924.76 (64-bit)), reset site engagement to 0 for all sites (from chrome://site-engagement/) and removed all Flash exceptions.

We've trie several sites and no Flash content was blocked. 

Has the 100% roll in Chrome 56 out been postponed?

Octavian Naicu

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Anthony LaForge]

The plan is still to ramp up to 100% of our user base in Chrome 56.  We'll start ramping the second week of February (likely in a  pattern that will resemble - 10%, 25%, 50%, and finally 100%, graduated on a weekly basis).

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

[Matt Neff]

Since updating to Chrome 56 I'm getting "Right-click to run Adobe Flash Player" on all instances of Flash, and my site settings show "Block (default)".  All of this Flash content has alternate HTML content, and it was correctly showing this alternate content until Chrome 55 (when I turned on the flag to enable Flash by default).  This is a huge departure from the original intent, and a huge change from how it acted in the previous version.

Has there been an unannounced change to no longer show alternate content, and no longer have the dropdown/popup for "Enable Flash"?  

Octavian Naicu

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[PhistucK]

It sounds like a regression bug to me.

You can search crbug.com for an existing issue and star it. If you cannot find one, file a new issue using the "New issue" link on the same page.

Please, do not add a "+1" or "Me too" or "Confirmed" (or similar) comment. It just wastes the time of Chrome engineers and sends unnecessary e-mails to all of the people who starred the issue.

You can reply with a link to the found or created issue and might get triaged (and fixed) faster.

Thank you.

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Or]

I am using Chrome 56 Stable (not-beta) and it has a fixed Site Engagement Score threshold of 30! Is this on purpose?

In the Flash Roadmap page it states that in Chrome 56 stable it should be 2.

Please explain.

Thanks,

Or

Octavian Naicu

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Chromium-dev" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/topic/chromium-dev/ad7Posd6cdI/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Octavian Naicu]

For what site does it have the threshold?

Can you click it and edit it in chrome://site-engagement ?

Octavian Naicu

[Or]

I enabled the Prefer HTML over Flash flag and I see that only once a site's engagement score is above 30, flash runs without prompting the player to allow it. 

I edited the score via chrome://site-engagement.

[Anthony LaForge]

Good observation.  If the feature gets enabled manually (via chrome://flags), it will default to a minimum site engagement score of 30.

We're still in the process of rolling it out to all users.  We have it deployed to 25% of our user base and will expand it to 50% next week and 100% the following week.  For users where Chrome has enabled the feature, the minimum SEI threshold will be either 1 (default) or 2 (our current experiment).

At the end of the month the minimum threshold for all users will be 2.

Kind Regards,

Anthony Laforge
Technical Program Manager
Mountain View, CA

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev+unsubscribe@chromium.org.

[Adam Chace]

Once you have clicked "Allow" for a given site is there a way to clear that in Chrome?  Have tried resetting the SEI to 0 and then Disabling then Re-Enabling "Prefer HTML over Flash" in chrome://flags does not seem to work.  On Chrome 56 stable.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 5:36:39 PM UTC-4, Anthony LaForge wrote:

HTML5 by Default is still on target for release in December (Chrome 55).  Thanks to everyone for your feedback, particularly around user impact.  To this end, we plan to use Site Engagement (instead of a Top 10 list) to determine when a user would be prompted to allow the use of Flash Player.

Here’s how it works: Within Chrome, a user’s Site Engagement score ranges from 0 to 100 for each site.  This score is based upon the user’s history and is calculated using the number of repeat visits and the duration of each visit.  In Chrome, anyone can see their own Site Engagement score at chrome://site-engagement

When a user visits a site, Chrome will only prompt if the Site Engagement score is below a certain level.  To start, the threshold score will be 1 (meaning the user has visited the site at least once).  Over time this threshold will increase to 100 (in Q2 2017), and at that time any site using Flash will trigger a one-time prompt.  We are planning on using Site Engagement within Chrome, instead of a Top 10 list,

This change will minimize user impact for sites that they visit the most.  As before, users will only be prompted once per site (their choice will be remembered) and users will have full control over where Flash is allowed to run.

[PhistucK]

What about the Chrome settings?

chrome://settings/contentExceptions#plugins

(Copy and paste)

☆PhistucK

--

[Adam Chace]

Perfect, that's what I was looking for - thanks!

☆PhistucK

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org.

[Ruben Gerlach]

What happens if an unskilled user clicks "block" because they are unsure what Flash is and then the Flash game does no longer work. I would expect that if they click our image that links to the Flash plugin, they would be prompted again, but instead nothing happens. A small text on the right side of the url textfield indicates that the plugin has been blocked, but this is nothing an unskilled user will understand. Why does Chrome not ask the user again if they want to allow Flash when they click the link to the plugin page again?

With the current state, unskilled users are unable to get back into the game, once they blocked Flash because they were unsure what it was. We are already receiving emails about this.

Thanks in advance,
Ruben

[Amal Hussein]

Ruben, 

By checking navigator.plugins, you will be able to know whether or not flash has been blocked. If the Shockwave plugin is in the list, your good to go. If its not, then its either been blocked by the user, or by the browser because of HBD. If the version is higher than 55, its likely HBD. In either case, you can use that to message something to you user so they can enable flash for your site. 

Additionally, you can also log an error with the user metadata so you can reach out them proactively if needed. 

Good luck! 

[Arthur Hulsman]

So i checked, but in Chrome 56 you can't use navigator.plugins object to see if there is flash or not, whether Flash is set to Block or Ask. In canary this still works though...

* Not sure if i spammed this message across the board, always have trouble replying on the boards using gmail. :/