Subject: [I] Lurkage, was Re: [I] Prayer
Stacie Hanes
From: "Aquarion" <drw...@tmbg.org>
Subject: Re: [I] Prayer, was [I] Rainbow Bridge
Date: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:31 PM
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:10:07 GMT, "Concubine of Evil"
<res1...@verizon.not> wrote:
>>snipped lotsa bits that showed my point about how clever ya'll are and
>>sent me scurrying back into lurk>
>>
>Oh crikey. Don't do that. AFP needs more people.
><gaze direction="navel">
>I've never seen the point of the division between "I am lurking" and
>"I am posting".
<snip>
>Actually, if you're a lurker,
>I'd be interested in why.
>Do we - as posters - appear to be a difficult group to join?
<snip>
Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
possible mistakes is daunting...
Then, between lost nerve, no time, and computer problems, I
stopped reading the group. Now I've built up sufficient nerve
again and the computer's working. I still don't have time, but I
_have_ managed to work up a good excuse. ;-)
I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're funny,
for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
Thanks, you've been a great audience.
Stacie
ps- If you're reading this, then I might be getting over it.
David Jensen
in <6%U5b.33946$Om1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
>
>From: "Aquarion" <drw...@tmbg.org>
>Subject: Re: [I] Prayer, was [I] Rainbow Bridge
>Date: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:31 PM
>
>On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:10:07 GMT, "Concubine of Evil"
><res1...@verizon.not> wrote:
>
>>>snipped lotsa bits that showed my point about how clever ya'll are and
>>>sent me scurrying back into lurk>
>>>
>>Oh crikey. Don't do that. AFP needs more people.
>
>><gaze direction="navel">
>>I've never seen the point of the division between "I am lurking" and
>>"I am posting".
><snip>
> >Actually, if you're a lurker,
>>I'd be interested in why.
>>Do we - as posters - appear to be a difficult group to join?
>
><snip>
>
>Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
>the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
>Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
>read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
>weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
Oh dear. It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
someone will come along in a minute to clear things up. If this were
school, you should still take Susan's attitude to heart and not let it
get in the way of your education.
>I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
>substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
>posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
>university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
>possible mistakes is daunting...
Yep. Not to worry, if you obsess over it, someone will still catch an
error. This is more like a conversation though the keyboard. Enjoy it.
>Then, between lost nerve, no time, and computer problems, I
>stopped reading the group. Now I've built up sufficient nerve
>again and the computer's working. I still don't have time, but I
>_have_ managed to work up a good excuse. ;-)
Tres bien.
>I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're funny,
>for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
>intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
>afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
Read, respond when you like, get to know the style of the folks who
write. This is to enjoy.
>Thanks, you've been a great audience.
>
>Stacie
>
>ps- If you're reading this, then I might be getting over it.
Yes. You may have.
Mark Datko
<snip>
>>Oh crikey. Don't do that. AFP needs more people.
The old old adage : a handful of active regular posters
a few occasionals, and then the odd 'so-called' lurker.
>
>
>><gaze direction="navel">
>>I've never seen the point of the division between "I am lurking" and
>>"I am posting".
>
> <snip>
> >Actually, if you're a lurker,
>
>>I'd be interested in why.
>>Do we - as posters - appear to be a difficult group to join?
I can recall this discussion from the early days (well earlyish days)
1996-97 maybe ??
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
> the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
> Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
> read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
> weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
Oh dear : this is not good.
This *does* seem one of only a handful of groups that seemingly
has some structure and history. But it's what the posters make it
always has been, always will be. De facto, that's all it can be.
>
> I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> possible mistakes is daunting...
You should try meeting us in RL *grin*. I remember meeting
a large number of afper for the first time at the first
Discworld convention (yes the first). That was *interesting*.
>
> Then, between lost nerve, no time, and computer problems, I
> stopped reading the group. Now I've built up sufficient nerve
> again and the computer's working. I still don't have time, but I
> _have_ managed to work up a good excuse. ;-)
Pratchett online activity in all its forms can be very
addictive but also life changing ;-)
A number of times I've contemplated Afpers Anonymous.
>
> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're funny,
> for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
> intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
Funny ?? oh if only.... There have been one or two funny posts
over the years ;-) Best of afp anyone ?
Intelligence .... you forget there's 'bugger all intelligent
life on earth', and afaik there are no confirmed aliens
posting.
And as to being stupid, I regard almost everything I type
as stupid. Someone somewhere will think your innocent remark
stupid, offensive, silly or whatever.
But dont let that stop you. Afraid of us ?? We're harmless
Well, mostly harmless.
>
> Thanks, you've been a great audience.
>
> Stacie
Welcome, Stacie. Do stay and enjoy :-)
I've tried to 'give up' on a number of
(well documented) occasions. But
once a Online Pratchett Fan, always
an Online Pratchett Fan :-)
hippo
--
http://www.3dhippo.org.uk
Sanity
<da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in article
<m48glvkh72ri55g4q...@4ax.com>:
> It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
> someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
snipping irrelevant stuff.
Nobody said anything or mentioned FAQs at all.
It must be my charisma, because now I am sometimes what looks like a
vaguely respected and known poster. Some people even get my gender right.
So you see, it's all fun, and don't worry so much. But do worry a little.
As far as I've seen here, if someone has good intentions, a few errors
don't really matter. As long as you show that you're here to have a good
time, and are nice to people, no worries at all.
(walks back to the stall selling stickers "You don't have to be nice to
post here, but it helps")
TTFN,
Michel AKA Sanity
--
"Sanity shall make ye -ing fret": | "A cat has 40 million hairs: 5
www.affordable-prawns.co.uk | million on its back, 10 million on
www.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk | its belly, and 25 million on your
Check the AFPChess Tournament! | couch." --Midas Dekkers
Eric Jarvis
>
> Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
> the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
> Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
> read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
> weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
>
OK...then you are owed at least one beer at a meet...we can make a start
on you forgetting it all by killing off a few braincells :)
> I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> possible mistakes is daunting...
>
actually I ditch around as many as I post...I'd guess I'm not alone...but
it's mostly through fear of not really having anything to say...or because
I've written something a bit tetchier than is appropriate
there aren't really that many mistakes that matter...it's really all about
attitude...if you have the right attitude to the other users of the group
then most things seem to be forgiven...otherwise I wouldn't be here
> Then, between lost nerve, no time, and computer problems, I
> stopped reading the group. Now I've built up sufficient nerve
> again and the computer's working. I still don't have time, but I
> _have_ managed to work up a good excuse. ;-)
>
essential research?...for...erm?...just general essential research on
stuff...I generally learn more here than in the more specialist newsgroups
I also frequent
> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're funny,
> for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
> intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
>
aww...make it two beers
feel free to say something stupid...I seem to cope :)
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
icklegui
"Sanity" <sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.05....@news.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk...
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0500, David Jensen
> <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in article
> <m48glvkh72ri55g4q...@4ax.com>:
>
> > It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
> > someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
>
> I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
> probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
> snipping irrelevant stuff.
>
<snip stuff about people posting correctly or not and becoming respected
posters anyway>
Well, there appears to be a few people (i'm not going to name them) who seem
to jump rather nastily on people (new or old, it seems) who don't do things
entirely right. If it was another group then this person or persons would
just seem like your everyday slightly nasty person, but coupled with the
intelligent (yes, it is!) atmosphere in here it sometimes comes across as
snobbishness on the part of the group, until you realise that it's only one
or two people who are like that.
but anyway, it hasn't put me off delurking once or twice....in many many
years
julia
Sanity
wrote in article <bj9c8g$gmdtj$1...@ID-201279.news.uni-berlin.de>:
> Best of afp anyone ?
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a3uq1c%24ej2%241%40library.lspace.org>
says it all, I think...
Ed Weatherup
news:6%U5b.33946$Om1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> From: "Aquarion" <drw...@tmbg.org>
> Subject: Re: [I] Prayer, was [I] Rainbow Bridge
> Date: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:31 PM
>
> On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:10:07 GMT, "Concubine of Evil"
> <res1...@verizon.not> wrote:
>
> I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> possible mistakes is daunting...
As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that there is only
one hanging offence:
"speculation"
Everything else is dealt with by toasting your figgin (or possibly splitting
your welchet[1]) or doing unspeakable things to your moules[2] ) and toasted
figgin is probably quite tasty :-)
[1] - drat, haven't got G!G! to hand to verify reference
[2] - see [1]
--
Ed.
Stevie D
> I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> possible mistakes is daunting...
But the question is ... *why* are we so scary? Compared to other
newsgropes I read, this is one of the most laid-back, most welcoming
and friendliest. There's hundreds of contributors, some more prolific
than others, so I would hope it doesn't look too cliquey. Or is it the
whole "walking into a crowded room on your own" syndrome ... worried
that everyone will either point and laugh at the newbie, or else
completely ignore you? Cos we don't do either of those here, well, not
often, anyway.
> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
> funny, for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
> intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
'Sfunny, but I've never been afraid to make a fool of myself on
a.f.p., much more so than on other newsgropes or face-to-face with
most people. Largely, I think, because the atmosphere is so generally
silly. I mean, come on, we've just had a long thread about blowing
raspberries - and you're worried about saying something stupid?!
> ps- If you're reading this, then I might be getting over it.
Great to hear it :-)
What if we didn't read it?
So, a plea to everyone else out there who is lurking, and too afraid
to jump in feet first:
Say something.
Then realise that we can't hear you, so send a message to the
newsgrope instead. We'll read it, we won't mock or mickey take.
You don't have to introduce yourself. You don't have to start a new
thread. You just have to reply to what someone else has said, just as
you would if your mate said something to you over a drink or whatever.
That's all. It's no big deal. And once you've done it once, it's
easier the next time. And before you know it, you'll have been
afpsimilated, you'll be sending a dozen messages a day and you will
never escape. Ahahahahaha!!!!!
Er, you might want to ignore those last few lines. Er.
Bye.
--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________
Ingvar Mattsson
> Stacie Hanes wrote:
> >
> > Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
> > the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
> > Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
> > read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
> > weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
> >
>
> OK...then you are owed at least one beer at a meet...we can make a start
> on you forgetting it all by killing off a few braincells :)
>
> > I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> > substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> > posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> > university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> > possible mistakes is daunting...
> >
>
> actually I ditch around as many as I post...I'd guess I'm not alone...but
> it's mostly through fear of not really having anything to say...or because
> I've written something a bit tetchier than is appropriate
I guess I (on average) kill the editing buffer 5 times out of 6 if
it's a "flame". The act of writing the flame cools me down enough to
realise sending it would be stupid. Sometimes, alas, I am angry enough
to actually press C-c C-c and off it goes. Hopefully, the ones that
escape *are* works of art, as well as expressing the anger. Hell, at
least one was alliterated poerty in the old norse style (i Swedish,
then translated into English with the same alliterations, rythms and
as clsoe to the original as I could get). The alliterated haiku was
*much* harder.
//Ingvar (so, when you flame, make the fire dance in beuatiful patterns)
--
My posts are fair game for anybody who wants to distribute the countless
pearls of wisdom sprinkled in them, as long as I'm attributed.
-- Martin Wisse, in a.f.p
Stacie Hanes
"Stevie D" <stevieiny...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o8oglv8jtgg235q6n...@4ax.com...
> Stacie Hanes wrote:
>
> > I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> > substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me. The
> > posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I turn in at the
> > university, and a few were deleted without sending. The number of
> > possible mistakes is daunting...
>
<snip>
>
> > ps- If you're reading this, then I might be getting over it.
>
> Great to hear it :-)
>
> What if we didn't read it?
>
I knew the risks going in, Captain. About the (probably)
unreasonable level of apprehension about afp, I admit I
may have more of a problem than most.
I know Mr. Pratchett reads these things, but I _very_ sincerely
I hope he's not reading this one. I'm an academic. Lit Crit is what
I geek on, and from everything I've read about or by Pratchett,
his view on criticism and academics seems . . . ambivalent. Since
I really admire him as a writer, .... Hell, it's about wanting your idol
to like you back and secretly feeling that said idol will think you're
an unutterable dork--and fearing that you _are_ an unutterable dork.
And that's not the fear of _maybe_ saying something dumb talking. I
put two essays on the L-Space Web. I'm scared I've _already_
said something stupid, and furthermore, said it with smug confidence
to lots of people.
But witness my <em>two posts in two days!</em> You've been very
welcoming.
In future I'll try not to be quite so long-winded.
Stacie
Mary Messall
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0500, David Jensen
> <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in article
> <m48glvkh72ri55g4q...@4ax.com>:
> > It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
> > someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
> I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
> probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
> snipping irrelevant stuff.
> Nobody said anything or mentioned FAQs at all.
Let's all tell our newbie stories.
My first article was under the subject line (and I am not kidding) "me
too". It included the words: "Besides, I know I can't help liking
fellow Terry Pratchett worshipers, even if they make me feel ignorant.
(Would someone tell me what the letters with the asterisks mean? I've
never seen them before...)"
[The letters with the asterisks were tags, the way they used to write
them.]
I've never been able to find in on google groups, for some reason, but
I have just succeeded in finding a reply to it which quoted the whole
thing, so I'm feeling quite nostalgic, and not a little embarrassed,
going through that thread...
-Mary
Concubine of Evil
"Gary Nicholass" <ga...@ciderspace.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3f58608e$1...@metisse.ciderspace.local...
> Mark Datko <mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Stacie Hanes wrote:
> > <snip>
> > A number of times I've contemplated Afpers Anonymous.
>
*but*
> anonymous!
>
> >> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
> >> funny, for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
> >> intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> >> afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
>
> thoughtful, comment may well be written off as 'stupid' by someone of a
> different opinion.
The stupidity factor is the thing.
In every group there is one guy (usually guy, wonder why that is?) who says
things that he thinks are incredibly witty and go right along with the
conversation, and is too dim to know that everyone else is politely
supressing groans at his approach.
AFP has a particular flavour that makes it even harder to slip in
seamlessly, and increasing the chances dramatically that something that
sounded terribly clever in the inner dialogue will come out.. well, less
than clever.
Adding to the problem, most of the world is, to be less than polite,
stupid.
So most reasonably bright people run around explaining the movies and the
news to the others around them. They get kind of used to being the bright
one.. and then walk in here and get smacked in the face with all this
overwhelming intelligence. Suddenly the fear of being the one that needs
the movie explained overwhelms them, and they are struck speechless.
um, I might have overdramatized the situation just a tad. Maybe.
Not to fear, I made it through my single years playing the dumb blonde
role, so I'll overcome it soon enough.
evil
Eric Jarvis
>
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
>
I still feel like one...it's only been a few years...not like you hardened
veterans
anyhow...I cheated...I'd been using Usenet for nearly a year before I
followed some cross posts into afp...so I don't think I made all that much
of a fool of my self [1] in my first set of posts, which IIRC were a sort
of pre-delurk...I'd read the FAQ...and I'd been posting to some of the
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.* groups for a while...so I'd been flamed
to a crisp several times already
[1] at least not more than normal
kilyth
> to jump in feet first:
>
> Say something.
>
> Then realise that we can't hear you, so send a message to the
> newsgrope instead. We'll read it, we won't mock or mickey take.
>
> You don't have to introduce yourself. You don't have to start a new
> thread. You just have to reply to what someone else has said, just as
> you would if your mate said something to you over a drink or whatever.
> That's all. It's no big deal. And once you've done it once, it's
> easier the next time. And before you know it, you'll have been
> afpsimilated, you'll be sending a dozen messages a day and you will
> never escape. Ahahahahaha!!!!!
>
> Er, you might want to ignore those last few lines. Er.
>
> Bye.
I dont' think I officially de-lurked, I just took the plunge, I tend
to do that, just jump in and damn the consequences. Never be afraid to
speak your mind. People will disagree with you, but that's what people
are for. They make you re-think what you believe and if the worst
comes just remember that the person who's shouting at you is in the
wrong more than you are[1]. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,
and for every person who disagrees with you there will be someone who
agrees.
Other than that, this is a great place to hang out, get some good
opinions from people and hold serious covesations about raspberries.
Kilyth
(the facts may not agree with me, but I'm still right!)
[1] There are exceptions to this, like saying "Hitler was quite a nice
chap actually" or "Diet coke what a good invention" may not be A Good
Idea.
Jennie Lees
> Stevie D <stevieiny...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<o8oglv8jtgg235q6n...@4ax.com>...
>
>>So, a plea to everyone else out there who is lurking, and too afraid
>>to jump in feet first:
>>
>>Say something.
>
> I dont' think I officially de-lurked, I just took the plunge, I tend
> to do that, just jump in and damn the consequences. Never be afraid to
> speak your mind.
It strikes me that if one were to not jump in straight away and instead
hang around for a while lurking, one would become much more intimidated,
leading to a higher chance of never posting at all... Jumping in
straight away seems to be the best way to get started, if you're not
afraid to get shot down! (my first post invited an immediate flame on
tags... :)
If you hang around it becomes far too easy to rather voyeuristically
read the posts and not really consider "gosh, I can bring something to
this discussion and post myself"... and I've got into the habit of
asking myself "what will this post contribute to afp", though often it's
"not a lot"... I should stop doing that, really. It's not good for me,
and that prevalent attitude wouldn't do much for the group, either.
-Jennie
Lady Kayla
> So, a plea to everyone else out there who is lurking, and too afraid
> to jump in feet first:
>
> Say something.
You don't have to "de-lurk". There is no rule that says that you must
do an introductory post. Why not just follow-up to a post that
interests you as if you always have done? Why not just behave as if
you have always posted, after all, you've been reading for a while,
no?
If your email address is new to the Meerkat, the Clue Fairies will
still send you the "welcome to afp" email, but nobody else need know
that you've never posted before. There have been enough itinerant
posters in the past that it is unlikely that anyone could be 100%
certain that you really _are_ a newbie - bar a certain number of
specific and typical errors :)
My first post to AFP in 1996 was "Does anybody know anything about his
Discworld Convention in Manchester?" or something similar. IIRC, the
response to which was from an old-fart along the lines of "Doesn't
anybody read the FAQs any more?" I ended up marrying him :)
--
Lady Kayla http://designs.ladykayla.org/
"You went and *checked?* This is afp, where the truth is arrived at by a
process of hubbub!" Terry Pratchett.
Eric Jarvis
>
> My first post to AFP in 1996 was "Does anybody know anything about his
> Discworld Convention in Manchester?" or something similar. IIRC, the
> response to which was from an old-fart along the lines of "Doesn't
> anybody read the FAQs any more?" I ended up marrying him :)
>
the lengths people had to go simply to get information about a Con...I'm
very glad it's so much easier these days
jester
<lady...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>
>My first post to AFP in 1996 was "Does anybody know anything about his
>Discworld Convention in Manchester?" or something similar. IIRC, the
>response to which was from an old-fart along the lines of "Doesn't
>anybody read the FAQs any more?" I ended up marrying him :)
I could make some sort of comment about this being a perfect examples
about why you should be careful what you post, but I'd probably end up
losing any chance of sampling certain home-produced beverages.
--
Andy Brown
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died. -- Steven Wright
Andrew Gray
>
> If you hang around it becomes far too easy to rather voyeuristically
> read the posts and not really consider "gosh, I can bring something to
> this discussion and post myself"... and I've got into the habit of
> asking myself "what will this post contribute to afp", though often it's
> "not a lot"... I should stop doing that, really. It's not good for me,
> and that prevalent attitude wouldn't do much for the group, either.
I dunno. Admittedly, I tend to keep intending to only post good, solid,
reliable things and then forget when I see an open feedline (places more
serious than here, as a rule, here the feedlines never live long
enough...), but I do thoroughly support the "think before thee post"
approach. There's a few posters I've killfiled, or keep meaning to
(recently or in The Past), simply because reading a string of virtually
contentless posts just doesn't add anything to the newsgroup, and not
through any personal dislike or irritation.
I do think the newsgroup would be better off if people stopped and
thought "will this detract from the general quality of the newsgroup";
it's a slight difference, but I think a significant one...
</metaness>
Sorry <g>
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>From: Ingvar Mattsson ing...@cathouse.bofh.se
>Date: 05/09/03 12:00 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <87n0dj1...@gruk.tech.ensign.ftech.net>
<Flames>
> Hell, at
>least one was alliterated poerty in the old norse style (i Swedish,
>then translated into English with the same alliterations, rythms and
>as clsoe to the original as I could get). The alliterated haiku was
>*much* harder.
Way to stop the newbies thinking we're a bunch of overachieving
intellectuals...
--
Dave
Now Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc for FOUR years
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"We have no listing for the Cult of Fish in Edinburgh."
The Number 118-118, asked for the number of the Court of Session.
The Flying Hamster
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:14:10 +0100, Lady Kayla
><lady...@suespammers.org> wrote:
> I could make some sort of comment about this being a perfect examples
> about why you should be careful what you post, but I'd probably end up
> losing any chance of sampling certain home-produced beverages.
the apples are eaters, cookers or better.
--
The Flying Hamster <ham...@korenwolf.net> http://www.korenwolf.net/
You have reached me at an instance of temporary sanity .
Please call back later.
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>From: Mary Messall mmes...@ups.edu
>Date: 05/09/03 14:32 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F589007...@ups.edu>
>
>Sanity wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0500, David Jensen
>> <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in article
>> <m48glvkh72ri55g4q...@4ax.com>:
>> > It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
>> > someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
>> I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
>> probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
>> snipping irrelevant stuff.
>> Nobody said anything or mentioned FAQs at all.
>
>Let's all tell our newbie stories.
>
>My first article was under the subject line (and I am not kidding) "me
>too". It included the words: "Besides, I know I can't help liking
>fellow Terry Pratchett worshipers, even if they make me feel ignorant.
>(Would someone tell me what the letters with the asterisks mean? I've
>never seen them before...)"
>
>[The letters with the asterisks were tags, the way they used to write
>them.]
>
<mode= insufferably smug>
*My* first post[1] was tagged [A], included spoiler space for the two books I
was discussing, and an apology if my observations had been made before. I even
had a footnote.
It was completely ignored, and quite right too.
[1] To afp and to Usenet.
Lesley Weston
Sanity at sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk wrote on 05/09/2003
3:30 AM:
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:59:27 +0100, Mark Datko <mark....@ntlworld.com>
> wrote in article <bj9c8g$gmdtj$1...@ID-201279.news.uni-berlin.de>:
>
>> Best of afp anyone ?
>
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a3uq1c%24ej2%241%40library.lspace.org>
> says it all, I think...
No cats?
Lesley Weston.
Sanity
I think they were distracted by somet....ooh, shiny!
Alec Cawley
Hanes <house_d...@yahoo.com> writes
>I know Mr. Pratchett reads these things, but I _very_ sincerely
>I hope he's not reading this one. I'm an academic. Lit Crit is what
>I geek on, and from everything I've read about or by Pratchett,
>his view on criticism and academics seems . . . ambivalent. Since
>I really admire him as a writer, .... Hell, it's about wanting your idol
>to like you back and secretly feeling that said idol will think you're
>an unutterable dork--and fearing that you _are_ an unutterable dork.
There is a fairly simple reason for that. The Lit Crit establishment has
not been very kind to Mr Pratchett. There seems to be a view that (a) if
it is successful it cannot be good, and (b) if it is fantasy, it cannot
be good unless written by a Literary Person such as JRRT, and (c) if it
is humorous, it is unlikely to be good . Like any writer, TP probably
thinks that his writing deserves better than such casual dismissal.
(Unlike most writers, he has the advantage of being right in this
belief). It is not very easy to be warm and positive about a group of
people who dismiss you unread or barely read.
Therefore you should post proudly to afp as a Lit Crit geek to say that
not all such are so prejudiced. You should also push your fellow
Critters to give TP a *proper* study so that they give him full credit
for the literary qualities of his books.
--
@lec Šawley
Aquarion
<e...@intrNOSPaMn.cNoSPAM.uk> wrote:
>
>As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that there is only
>one hanging offence:
>
>"speculation"
>
Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
Speculation has an outlet, though. There is a speculation list
(http://library.lspace.org/mailman/listinfo/afp-speculation) but it's
been fairly dead for a while. I'd like to see it start up again, after
the popularity of the Spec Panel at the con.
--
Aq
Aquarion
<house_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>From: "Aquarion" <drw...@tmbg.org>
>Subject: Re: [I] Prayer, was [I] Rainbow Bridge
>Date: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:31 PM
>
>On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:10:07 GMT, "Concubine of Evil"
><res1...@verizon.not> wrote:
>
>>>snipped lotsa bits that showed my point about how clever ya'll are and
>>>sent me scurrying back into lurk>
>>>
>>Oh crikey. Don't do that. AFP needs more people.
>
>><gaze direction="navel">
>>I've never seen the point of the division between "I am lurking" and
>>"I am posting".
><snip>
> >Actually, if you're a lurker,
>>I'd be interested in why.
>>Do we - as posters - appear to be a difficult group to join?
>
><snip>
>
>Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously not
>the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
>Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
>read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
>weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
I didn't. I just waded in, top-posting, not tagging, and saying "Me
Too". I learnt, as most people do if you teach rather than beat them.
>
>Thanks, you've been a great audience.
You're kidding. AFP is mostly a terrible audience.
--
Aq
Aquarion
<lady...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>If your email address is new to the Meerkat, the Clue Fairies will
>still send you the "welcome to afp" email,
Yeah, I'd forgotten how great it was until I got one this morning...
(New email addy causes meerkat konfusion)
--
Aq
Mary Messall
> The Lit Crit establishment has
> not been very kind to Mr Pratchett. There seems to be a view that (a) if
> it is successful it cannot be good, and (b) if it is fantasy, it cannot
> be good unless written by a Literary Person such as JRRT, and (c) if it
> is humorous, it is unlikely to be good . Like any writer, TP probably
> thinks that his writing deserves better than such casual dismissal.
> (Unlike most writers, he has the advantage of being right in this
> belief). It is not very easy to be warm and positive about a group of
> people who dismiss you unread or barely read.
> Therefore you should post proudly to afp as a Lit Crit geek to say that
> not all such are so prejudiced. You should also push your fellow
> Critters to give TP a *proper* study so that they give him full credit
> for the literary qualities of his books.
I have a question. Why is it that all the "literary" novels I read
center on such unlikable characters?
I spend more of my spare time reading than doing anything else, and
most of that reading fiction, and yet I shy away from descriptions of
myself as a "literary type." I went so far as to major in physics
instead of English, surprising myself as well as everyone who knew me.
It was because of the books we'd read in English classes. "Beloved" and
"The Great Gatsby" and "Ulysses," and the "The Grapes of Wrath" and
"Ethan Frome" and "Wuthering Heights" and "The Scarlet Letter" and so
on and so on... Hardly a character among them that you'd want to spend
half an hour in conversation with, much less many hours inside their
heads. Some pretty sentences, of course, but I couldn't help feeling
that the real attraction was supposed to be more a kind of
schadenfreude... That we were supposed to enjoy feeling superior to
these people, pity them perhaps, but also enjoy their well-earned
discomfiture.
And I still can't help feeling that books with likable characters, the
sort of thing I spend all my spare time reading, would always be
dismissed by the Literary Establishment as populist pulp, not Serious.
Which rules out Pratchett again.
-Mary (feels the same way about most art movies.)
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>From: Aquarion drw...@tmbg.org
>Date: 05/09/03 18:45 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <nmihlvg6v86kv240u...@4ax.com>
>
>On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:39:54 +0100, "Ed Weatherup"
><e...@intrNOSPaMn.cNoSPAM.uk> wrote:
>>
>>As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that there is only
>>one hanging offence:
>>
>>"speculation"
>>
>
>Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
Fanfic is simply speculation squared. Instead of saying "wouldn't it be kewl if
<foo> happened" and meaning Pterry has to abandon that idea, should he be
thinking of it, to avoid Suspicion, they[1] say "<foo> would happen like this",
meaning Pterry has to abandon that idea, and any related one.
[1] And by "they" I mean "we". And I shoulf have known better...
Graycat
wrote:
>Let's all tell our newbie stories.
Ok, will do.
I believe my first post was to complain about the FotR movie, I didn't
like the portrayal of Strider.
I believe I then went on to feeling extremely offended by some people,
got in trouble over a (probably) tasteless comment about world trade
centre and retreated for a while - to regain composure, acquire
distance and behave slighty less newbie-y.
I don't think it was too long after that I took on the tale.
Hum, feels like I've been here longer than just a year and a half...
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/index.html
From adress valid, but rarely checked. Use Reply-To to contact me
Graycat
<stevieiny...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Or is it the
>whole "walking into a crowded room on your own" syndrome ... worried
>that everyone will either point and laugh at the newbie, or else
>completely ignore you? Cos we don't do either of those here, well, not
>often, anyway.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. People are frequently laughed at,
though often they've asked for it, and whenever you think you wrote
something really clever you are sure to get no response at all. But
that's just the way it is, murphy's law or something, and afp is still
a great crowd.
Beth Winter
>
> Sanity wrote:
> > On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0500, David Jensen
> > <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in article
> > <m48glvkh72ri55g4q...@4ax.com>:
> > > It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
> > > someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
> > I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
> > probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
> > snipping irrelevant stuff.
> > Nobody said anything or mentioned FAQs at all.
>
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
My first post was *counts* um, almost exactly 4 years ago. Gah. Anyway,
it was actually on-topic: I commented that I didn't like the Soul Music
cartoon, in a discussion of said cartoon. It helped that I'd read the
FAQ two years earlier and was waiting until I graduated from dialup to
start participating in newsgroups. I think the number of times I've been
the target of a serious flame here can be counted on one hand...
--
Beth Winter
The Discworld Compendium <http://www.extenuation.net/disc/>
"To absent friends, lost loves, old gods and the season of mists."
-- Neil Gaiman
Andrew Gray
>
> Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
>
> Speculation has an outlet, though. There is a speculation list
> (http://library.lspace.org/mailman/listinfo/afp-speculation) but it's
> been fairly dead for a while. I'd like to see it start up again, after
> the popularity of the Spec Panel at the con.
Wasn't there a fanfic list? I'm sure I remember some discussion about
one a while back... not that I'd have paid much attention, but...
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Beth Winter
I think it might be kinda inactive. There is, however, a Discworld
category at fanfiction.net, probably on the basis that it's not really a
place that Pterry can stumble on by accident.
Orjan Westin
> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
> funny, for one thing. Extremely funny.
Hey! I'm not!
> Most of you seem to be pretty
> intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
Most of us are intelligent enough to accept that everyone says stupid things
every now and then. Some more often than others, admittedly, but it's not
such a big deal. Unless the subject matter is close to people's heart, what
you write is usually read as meant, not necessarily as phrased. The
occasional cinder-war can be sidestepped without too much singeing, and
there tend to be more people urging calm than actually fighting in the first
place. Of course, that more or less inevitably leads to more acrimony, until
someone diverts the attention by asking what would happen if you put a
buttered toas on the back of Schroedinger's cat.
Um.
Lit crit?
Dare I?
nah...
Er.
So...
whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
<runs away>
Orjan
Orjan Westin
>
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
Hadn't read the FAQs - followed a link from L-Space to stumble on afp. First
post written in reply to the first post I read, with me defending Terry's
right to write whatever he wanted without caving in to the demads from fans
for more Rincewind books. Tagged by previous poster.
I did get into a bit of heat shortly afterwards, while defending a Finn's
right to call afp elitist without using a smiley, arguing that the tone in
the post indicated quite clearly that it was in jest. I think it was Paul
Rood who took offence. Was never involved in the t*mpl* stuff - stayed clear
of the whole affair - feeling too new to protest, unable to understand the
allure. Started the (for a while later) semi-famous thread "Do you believe
in maths?". Oh, I used the nick "Gidjabolgo" until late 1999.
Whoops. More history of my early years than first post. I'm sure it'll
interest someone. I hope.
Orjan
Eric Jarvis
> Alec Cawley wrote:
> > The Lit Crit establishment has
> > not been very kind to Mr Pratchett. There seems to be a view that (a) if
> > it is successful it cannot be good, and (b) if it is fantasy, it cannot
> > be good unless written by a Literary Person such as JRRT, and (c) if it
> > is humorous, it is unlikely to be good . Like any writer, TP probably
> > thinks that his writing deserves better than such casual dismissal.
> > (Unlike most writers, he has the advantage of being right in this
> > belief). It is not very easy to be warm and positive about a group of
> > people who dismiss you unread or barely read.
> > Therefore you should post proudly to afp as a Lit Crit geek to say that
> > not all such are so prejudiced. You should also push your fellow
> > Critters to give TP a *proper* study so that they give him full credit
> > for the literary qualities of his books.
>
> I have a question. Why is it that all the "literary" novels I read
> center on such unlikable characters?
>
perhaps because it's easier to show the motivation of greed, envy, lust
etc...whereas trying to persuade a character to do something just because
it would be nice for somebody else is a real PITA for the writer
perhaps also because it is seen as more cool to have an anti-
hero...perhaps writers just hang out with a particularly nasty crowd...but
I tend to the former view
> snip
>
> And I still can't help feeling that books with likable characters, the
> sort of thing I spend all my spare time reading, would always be
> dismissed by the Literary Establishment as populist pulp, not Serious.
> Which rules out Pratchett again.
>
I tried to come up with some examples to counter that...and all I've
managed on a quick decko at the bookshelves is Thomas Hardy and Doris
Lessing...and they both feature people with plenty of flaws...and Doris
Lessing cheats by having semi autobiographical characters a lot
Eric Jarvis
> Stacie Hanes wrote:
>
> > I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
> > funny, for one thing. Extremely funny.
>
> Hey! I'm not!
>
<thwaps Orjan over the head with a large comedy balloon>
oh yes you are!
see...we can do highbrow humour too
Mary Messall
> Mary Messall wrote:
> > And I still can't help feeling that books with likable characters, the
> > sort of thing I spend all my spare time reading, would always be
> > dismissed by the Literary Establishment as populist pulp, not Serious.
> > Which rules out Pratchett again.
> I tried to come up with some examples to counter that...and all I've
> managed on a quick decko at the bookshelves is Thomas Hardy and Doris
> Lessing...and they both feature people with plenty of flaws...and Doris
> Lessing cheats by having semi autobiographical characters a lot
Oh, I can come up with counter-examples. We also read Herman Wouk, T.H.
White (one of my all-time favorites), Shakespeare, and Homer in English
classes (and Virgil and Dante in the same "humanistic perspectives"
class in which I read [some of] _Ulysses_). You got me started on
Graham Green, Adrian gave me a copy of The Poisonwood Bible, and I
think AFP gets credit for my discovery of Salman Rushdie too. I'm not
sure they all have likable characters in the usual sense, but... Well,
I said it here already:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3E48886E.DCB02D6B%40ups.edu&rnum=1
But even among those authors, I feel like the amount I like them
correlates inversely with how seriously they are taken.
-Mary (tried to read One Hundred Years of Solitude, on recommendation
of AFP and comparisons to Rushdie, and didn't finish it before it was
due back at the library. The characters were not so much unlikable as
incomprehensible, distant...)
David Jensen
<MPG.19c317ce2...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>:
>Orjan Westin wrote:
>> Stacie Hanes wrote:
>>
>> > I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
>> > funny, for one thing. Extremely funny.
>>
>> Hey! I'm not!
>>
>
><thwaps Orjan over the head with a large comedy balloon>
>
>oh yes you are!
>
>see...we can do highbrow humour too
Rowan Atkinson defines it?
Marco Villalta
> "Ed Weatherup" <e...@intrNOSPaMn.cNoSPAM.uk> wrote:
>
>> As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that
>> there is only one hanging offence:
>>
>> "speculation"
>
> Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
Say... for the record, is that any fanfic, or just DW fanfic
specifically?
And what about the *other* kind of fanfic...?
--
Marco Villalta -- afpStuff in headers
Stacie Hanes
"Mary Messall" <mmes...@ups.edu> wrote in message
news:3F58D1CC...@ups.edu...
> I have a question. Why is it that all the "literary" novels I read
> center on such unlikable characters?
My personal theory, and here's me taking my chances, is that "pleasant"
and "interesting" are not synonyms--the just coincide sometimes. Just
to pick one you mention, _The Scarlet Letter_ was written by a man who had a
lot to say about religion and faith. He also wrote _Youngs Goodman Brown_,
which I consider a precursor to modern fantasy fiction.
> I went so far as to major in physics
> instead of English, surprising myself as well as everyone who knew me.
Not an option for me. Good with letters until you start mixing them
with numbers. After that, not so much.
Stacie
Stacie Hanes
"Alec Cawley" <al...@cawley.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LieL+ho7fMW$Ew...@cawley.demon.co.uk...
> In message <BR_5b.101$_26...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Stacie
> Hanes <house_d...@yahoo.com> writes
>
>>everything I've read about or by Pratchett, his view
>>on criticism and academics seems . . . ambivalent.
<snip>
> Therefore you should post proudly to afp as a Lit Crit geek to say that
> not all such are so prejudiced. You should also push your fellow
> Critters to give TP a *proper* study so that they give him full credit
> for the literary qualities of his books.
I am. I'm doing my Master's thesis on him. Two of the three chapters
are posted in the criticism section of the L-Space Web. Um. They've
been updated a little since they were first written. I hope I'll be
presenting
the one about the City Watch novels at a conference in Florida this
upcoming March; I just mailed the proposal--wish me luck.
I remember reading an interview where he says that he's received a
generally good reception from academics, and another where he replied
to the question "How would he feel if people started using his books in
university courses?" by saying "Puzzled, I think." Or similar.
Anyway, it's too late. I read my first Discworld novel for a university
class;
it was _Witches Abroad_.
He was kind enough to allow me to interview him after a signing in Cleveland
a few years ago, and I was impressed--not to mention grateful as hell.
Still,
some of the comments he's made about criticism leave me sort of torn
between sending him a copy of the bound thesis as a tribute and hoping
he never, ever finds out I wrote it.
Maybe when I'm done, we could have a poll to see whether he gets
a copy or not.
Stacie
Stacie Hanes
"Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bjauaf$glom2$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
> So...
>
> whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
>
> <runs away>
>
> Orjan
>
Um, if you told me where to find it, I could maybe
tell you. So far, I know it's something that several
afpers have been discussing. Unless I read it
wrong--I told you I've been reading everything,
but some of it didn't make much sense without
background.[1]
Stacie
[1] And some of it was just plain *strange*.[2]
[2] Footnote! I've footnoted my footnotes, worked
in about 15 in a 12 page paper, and used the phrase
"argghgurglegurglebleedthud," all in a paper about
Jane Austen. I can pretty much trace this habit back
to Discworld novels. You guys may wonder why
I haven't been kicked out of my university. I figure
that profs get tired of same-same all the time, too.
Stacie
Stacie Hanes
"David Jensen" <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:2dailvsifas6gpms3...@4ax.com...
Heh. Works for me. I got the Whole Bean DVD set
for my birthday last month, and all I had to do was
walk by it, point, and say to my husband, "I want
THAT, okay?"
Stacie
Mary Messall
> "Mary Messall" <mmes...@ups.edu> wrote in message
> news:3F58D1CC...@ups.edu...
> > I have a question. Why is it that all the "literary" novels I read
> > center on such unlikable characters?
> My personal theory, and here's me taking my chances, is that "pleasant"
> and "interesting" are not synonyms--the just coincide sometimes.
Granted. I wouldn't much want to read a book in which only pleasant
things happen, for instance. But. I personally don't care what happens,
in general, unless I care about the characters first. And it's not the
case that I only care about perfect people. Flawed is great. I love it
best when authors make me care about villains. All it takes usually is
for the author to identify with the character(s). If the author is
smart and the character stupid, shallow, if the author is complex and
the character simple, if the author is flawed but finds the means for
self-forgiveness (like most of us do) but cannot find any excuses for
the characters... Well, it makes the whole thing feel hollow, false,
forced, artificial. I can't buy into the story. I want confessional
fiction, I guess. I want honesty. And I want moral dilemmas which are
real dilemmas; that means the characters have to care at least a little
about making the right choices.
But I'll grant that other people can be interested in characters as
specimens, more than I am, and just ask... Why is it that English
teachers seem to believe "pleasant" and "interesting" are *mutually
exclusive*?
> Just
> to pick one you mention, _The Scarlet Letter_ was written by a man who had a
> lot to say about religion and faith. He also wrote _Youngs Goodman Brown_,
> which I consider a precursor to modern fantasy fiction.
I've only ever read the one book of his, but I was just reading about
him. I've been reading this online memoir of one of his friends and
admirers in bits and pieces: http://docsouth.unc.edu/davisr/davis.html
. Ironically, I like her writing much better than his.
-Mary
Keith Willoughby
> Sanity wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0500, David Jensen
>> > It's all supposed to be fun. Don't worry about making mistakes,
>> > someone will come along in a minute to clear things up.
>> I'll tell you something: my first ever afparticle was topposted, and
>> probably not even tagged. <looks> It wasn't. I also didn't bother about
>> snipping irrelevant stuff.
>> Nobody said anything or mentioned FAQs at all.
>
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
First article I can find on Google is from May 1993, about the nastiness
of the car crash in Only You Can Save Mankind. I've still only read
OYCSM once, but I'm betting if I read it again now, I wouldn't be nearly
as shocked as I was then. Leo replied to me; he was making more sense
than most even back then.
I'm fairly sure I was reading in 1992, though. I definitely remember
Terry posting from CIX, and his changeover to Demon. I definitely think
I remember the first apf. Maybe. Funny old thing, memory.
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had
Paul E. Jamison
"Birthday last month..."
So. Stacie, would you like you name and birthday
listed in the dafptabank? If so, the e-mail is
Warning: It involves a mass celebration with
ferrets and cannons.
Paul E. Jamison - doing his job
--
"There's more pressure on a vet to get it right.
People say 'It was God's will' when Granny dies,
but they get *angry* when they lose a cow."
- Terry Pratchett
Edmund R. Schluessel
I dibs "0". Who wants 1?
Ed Weatherup
news:20030905143900...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> >
> >From: Aquarion drw...@tmbg.org
> >Date: 05/09/03 18:45 GMT Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <nmihlvg6v86kv240u...@4ax.com>
> >
> >On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:39:54 +0100, "Ed Weatherup"
> ><e...@intrNOSPaMn.cNoSPAM.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that there is
only
> >>one hanging offence:
> >>
> >>"speculation"
> >>
> >
> >Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
>
> Fanfic is simply speculation squared. Instead of saying "wouldn't it be
kewl if
> <foo> happened" and meaning Pterry has to abandon that idea, should he be
> thinking of it, to avoid Suspicion, they[1] say "<foo> would happen like
this",
> meaning Pterry has to abandon that idea, and any related one.
>
> [1] And by "they" I mean "we". And I shoulf have known better...
There, you see? I got it wrong and wasn't hung up by the town hall - quite
painless really :-)
--
Ed.
Ed Weatherup
news:LieL+ho7fMW$Ew...@cawley.demon.co.uk...
> In message <BR_5b.101$_26...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Stacie
> Hanes <house_d...@yahoo.com> writes
[snip]
> There is a fairly simple reason for that. The Lit Crit establishment has
> not been very kind to Mr Pratchett. There seems to be a view that (a) if
> it is successful it cannot be good, and (b)
[snipped (b)]
and (c)
[snipped (c)]
I think (a) is easily explained:
Big targets = easy targets.
Successful = big target
Therefore it's much easier for the hostile kind[1] of lit. crit. to garner
recognition by shooting at a big target, in this case Mr TP.
[1] Obviously a different kind to the originator of this thread, who seems
to be the non-hostile kind :-)
--
Ed.
Sian Hiscock
(Say that after three pints, go on I dare you.)***
Stacie said: [1]
> > I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in the
> > substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of me.
Shit, really? I'm not scary. People here aren't scary. We're very
nice, honest.
Stevie said:
> ...newsgropes I read, this is one of the most laid-back, most welcoming
> and friendliest. There's hundreds of contributors, some more prolific
> than others, so I would hope it doesn't look too cliquey.
Hell yes I agree, Stevie. Don't get me started on Alt.Fashion... I
like it here. I like the fact that we talk about anything and
everything, with occasional spots of wibbling. You know, I don't think
I've done an [R] post in the past few months...
Stacie said:
> > I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
> > funny, for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be pretty
> > intelligent, to the point of being the single group of people I'm
> > afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
>
Well, thank you for calling me intelligent and funny. *preens* But I
say stupid things all the time, and so do lots of people here. Are you
sure you're reading the same newsgroup I am...? A thread on blowing
rasberries (like Stevie said) doesn't constitute high brow thinking to
me.
Stacie, I'm a fashion student. On a whole, the majority of the breed
aren't known for common sense, and I admit I'm not the most practical
of thinkers sometimes. In the pub quiz of life, you would beat me. I
have no idea what the difference between physics and quantum physics
is, or know the capital of Australia. (Shame on me, I know. Abuse from
XXXXers will now be thrown at my direction...) I'm not saying I have
the intelligence level of a bio yogurt, but people here Know Stuff on
things I don't, just as I Know Stuff about areas they don't.
Thus lies the wonder of AFP- We Talk About Anything And Everything.
And so it is written, verily, on Usenet, that the people of AFP danced
and shouted salutations of inaneness and posted [I]rrelevently...
Sian
XxX
> > ps- If you're reading this, then I might be getting over it.
Nice to hear. Hello Stacie, I'm Sian. Nice to meet you. Care for some
chocolate?
[1] Look Ma, I'm quoting properly! Now people can't yell at me.
The Stainless Steel Cat
daibhidc...@aol.com (Daibhid Ceannaideach) wrote:
>>From: Ingvar Mattsson ing...@cathouse.bofh.se
><Flames>
>
>> Hell, at
>>least one was alliterated poerty in the old norse style (i Swedish,
>>then translated into English with the same alliterations, rythms and
>>as clsoe to the original as I could get). The alliterated haiku was
>>*much* harder.
>
>Way to stop the newbies thinking we're a bunch of overachieving
>intellectuals...
To terminate this,
Trying taboo talk tempts;
"Todgers, titties, tarts!"
Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and rude haikuist to CCA
La Rustimuna ^Stalkato
Sylvain Chambon
house_d...@yahoo.com says...
>
> "Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bjauaf$glom2$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
> Um, if you told me where to find it, I could maybe
> tell you. So far, I know it's something that several
> afpers have been discussing. Unless I read it
> wrong--I told you I've been reading everything,
> but some of it didn't make much sense without
> background.[1]
The Tale of Westala and Villtin is a work in progress written in turns
by Orjan and Marco, two Swedish afpers. Particular features are bad
puns, lots of cameos by afpers, bad puns, lots of Scandinavian jokes,
bad puns, and did I mention bad puns?
The inestimable Graycat (another Swede) maintains the online version of
the Tale, which is at <http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/>.
> [2] Footnote! I've footnoted my footnotes, worked
> in about 15 in a 12 page paper, and used the phrase
> "argghgurglegurglebleedthud," all in a paper about
> Jane Austen. I can pretty much trace this habit back
> to Discworld novels. You guys may wonder why
> I haven't been kicked out of my university. I figure
> that profs get tired of same-same all the time, too.
I want to read that paper.
Sylvain.
Ben Hutchings
<snip>
> The stupidity factor is the thing.
> In every group there is one guy (usually guy, wonder why that is?) who says
> things that he thinks are incredibly witty and go right along with the
> conversation, and is too dim to know that everyone else is politely
> supressing groans at his approach.
<snip>
Oh, we already have lots of those. Though I might be one of them.
Stacie Hanes
"Sylvain Chambon" <sgpch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19c401212...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> In article <Qab6b.5282$_26....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> house_d...@yahoo.com says...
> >
> > "Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:bjauaf$glom2$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > > whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
>
<snip>
Found it last night, haven't read it yet. Will do.
<snip>
> > [2] Footnote! I've footnoted my footnotes, worked
> > in about 15 in a 12 page paper, and used the phrase
> > "argghgurglegurglebleedthud," all in a paper about
> > Jane Austen. I can pretty much trace this habit back
> > to Discworld novels. You guys may wonder why
> > I haven't been kicked out of my university. I figure
> > that profs get tired of same-same all the time, too.
>
> I want to read that paper.
>
> Sylvain.
Wurrrl, I recounted, and it's 15 footnotes in 18 pages.
But if your kink runs that way, it's online on my
_Northanger Abbey_ page at this address:
http://home.earthlink.net/~esmeraldus/paper.pdf
I wrote it as the big paper in my senior seminar as an
undergrad. My main pride is that I actually turned
it in exactly as it is.
Stacie
Lady Kayla
<i_just_l...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In the pub quiz of life, you would beat me. I have no idea what the
> difference between physics and quantum physics is, or know the
> capital of Australia. (Shame on me, I know. Abuse from XXXXers will
> now be thrown at my direction...)
Nah. Some Aussies don't know that the capital isn't Sydney or
Melbourne ;)
--
Lady Kayla http://designs.ladykayla.org/
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggy' while searching for a
bigger rock"
Orjan Westin
> In article <Qab6b.5282$_26....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> house_d...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>> "Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:bjauaf$glom2$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>> whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
>
>> Um, if you told me where to find it, I could maybe
>> tell you. So far, I know it's something that several
>> afpers have been discussing.
>
> by Orjan and Marco, two Swedish afpers. Particular features are bad
> puns, lots of cameos by afpers, bad puns, lots of Scandinavian jokes,
> bad puns, and did I mention bad puns?
Um. You forget to mention that we do not talk to each other about what is
going to happen. I think Marco started having a plot long before me, but
since I have no idea what it is I have tried not to interfere with it.
That'll change in the next episode, though, where there'll be lots and lots
of deaths...
Orjan
kate and ben moule
> Trying taboo talk tempts;
> "Todgers, titties, tarts!"
>
(although I think it was only for the kiddies)
Ben
kate and ben moule
> Everything else is dealt with by toasting your figgin (or possibly
splitting
> your welchet[1]) or doing unspeakable things to your moules[2] ) and
toasted
> figgin is probably quite tasty :-)
>
Moules - what could you possibly do to moules which is unspeakable
Ben Moule
Marco Villalta
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
O-kay...
My first posting (to Usenet in general, as well, just as Daibhid)
was in the great Absent-Mindedness thread, and it was about
'silver tea':
<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=9i6sp6%24e6u%241%40zingo
.tninet.se>
At this point I had read the group sporadically for at least a
couple of weeks, I think about a month.
As you can see, the sender name didn't quit match the sign-off.
That was because I was a very clueless newbie indeed, who hadn't
changed the posting settings in OE to something more appropriate.
As was pointed out about a month later, after my second post:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=9mjltk%24fec%241%40cubac
ola.tninet.se>
... which included an attachment... hrm. Hey, doesn't Aquarion's
.sig look a bit familiar?
Shortly afterwards I finally got a computer of my own, and could
read the group more regularly. Invariably lurking, though.
Delurked properly in a thread I'd started about WTC, featuring
some confused politics. I'm not going to point you to it,
because it's not something I'm very proud of, and anyway you'll
have a moment's work to find it yourselves.
After that I did what I always do in any new venue I find myself
in, which is pretend I've always been there and own 51% of the
shares. I wibbled a bit about the vamps in Buffy, quickly got
into a discussion about Aliens (something to do with my sig), and
was entertained by weird dreams. I elaborated on using one's
watch as a compass. I remember the great Anime-Smiley Flamewar.
I was one of the instigators of the Pillow Fight of 2001.
Then I took a holiday for christmas and New Year, went to Italy,
and made an arse out of myself by baselessly calling someone a
troll. Came back home, redecorated the house, and got involved
in the Tale. And, um. That was pretty much my first half-year
of afperdom. The rest is, if not history, then at least
googlable.
--
Marco Villalta
Two years and counting...
Marco Villalta
> I know Mr. Pratchett reads these things, but I _very_ sincerely
> I hope he's not reading this one. I'm an academic. Lit Crit is
> what I geek on, and from everything I've read about or by
> Pratchett, his view on criticism and academics seems . . .
> ambivalent. Since I really admire him as a writer, .... Hell,
> it's about wanting your idol to like you back and secretly
> feeling that said idol will think you're an unutterable dork--
> and fearing that you _are_ an unutterable dork.
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be much worse to be
an *utterable* dork?
esmi
>Stacie Hanes wrote:
<hack>
>> I'm hoping to stick it out this time, for several reasons. You're
>> funny, for one thing. Extremely funny. Most of you seem to be
>> pretty intelligent, to the point of being the single group of
>> people I'm afraid of saying something stupid in front of.
>
>Funny ?? oh if only.... There have been one or two funny posts
>over the years ;-) Best of afp anyone ?
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/best-of-afp/>
All submissions considered.
So nyah! ;-)
esmi
Sylvain Chambon
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
If we must...
My first post dates back, I think, to late 1997. Googling gives nothing
because I used a pseudonym; for which I am rather thankful, in fact.
Outside the fact that my post was quite brainless, I managed to quote a
number of pages of someone else's post to add a line or two. (I got a
nice email which pointed me to the FAQs. Given what my next two posts --
to abp, in fact -- were like, I guess I read them).
I posted erratically throughout 98 and 99, usually making a fool of
myself, and joined for good in 2000.
I keep making a fool of myself, but either afp is very patient or I have
been quietly killfiled by a lot of people ;-).
Nowadays I post a lot less than I used to -- the trashed to sent ratio
is about 10:1. Mostly because I'm afraid of boring people to tears or
being frustrated at an inability to adequately express my point or
worse, finding out while typing that I don't, in fact, have a point.
Sylvain.
Sylvain Chambon
>
> "Sylvain Chambon" <sgpch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.19c401212...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > In article <Qab6b.5282$_26....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> > house_d...@yahoo.com says...
> > > [2] Footnote! I've footnoted my footnotes, worked
> > > in about 15 in a 12 page paper, and used the phrase
> > > "argghgurglegurglebleedthud," all in a paper about
> > > Jane Austen.
> > I want to read that paper.
>
> Wurrrl, I recounted, and it's 15 footnotes in 18 pages.
> But if your kink runs that way, it's online on my
> _Northanger Abbey_ page at this address:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~esmeraldus/paper.pdf
Thanks.
Now I need to read some Jane Austen...
> I wrote it as the big paper in my senior seminar as an
> undergrad. My main pride is that I actually turned
> it in exactly as it is.
Indeed; it's not exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from a "big paper
in one's senior seminar as an undergrad"[1] ;-)
Sylvain.
[1] Not that I am really aware of what these things are.
esmi
>>As a long-time lurker/infrequent poster, it seems to me that there
>>is only one hanging offence:
>>"speculation"
>Two. Speculation. Fanfic.
>Speculation has an outlet, though. There is a speculation list
>(http://library.lspace.org/mailman/listinfo/afp-speculation) but
>it's been fairly dead for a while. I'd like to see it start up
>again, after the popularity of the Spec Panel at the con.
You could do worse than ask those nice people at <cabal@lspaceorg> if
the list could be revived. Most dead lists have been killed off becasue
they simply fell out of use, AFAIAA. If there is a sustained demand for
a particular list, then it will remain available.
Incidentally, does anyone know of the fanfic mailing list is still
around? Lspace.org merely provided an alias for a list that was hosted
elsewhere but the original list maintainer hasn't been heard of for
some time.
I'm trying to put together a reasonably comprehensive list of all the
various Pratchett related email lists out there for inclusion within
the Other Resources section of L-Space Web. If you know of, or host
such a list, I'd be grateful if you could drop me a line with the
relevant details.
esmi
esmi
>in article
>pan.2003.09.05...@news.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk,
>Sanity at sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk wrote on
>05/09/2003 3:30 AM:
>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:59:27 +0100, Mark Datko
>> <mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote in article
>> <bj9c8g$gmdtj$1...@ID-201279.news.uni-berlin.de>:
>>> Best of afp anyone ?
>> <pace.org>
>> says it all, I think...
>No cats?
You offering one?
A post, I mean...not a cat. Well a post about cats preferably...
OK - I'll just sit down in the corner and mumble quietly...
esmi
esmi
wrote
><mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote in article
><bj9c8g$gmdtj$1...@ID-201279.news.uni-berlin.de>:
>> Best of afp anyone ?
><http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a3uq1c%24ej2%241%40library.lspa
><ce.org>
>says it all, I think...
Agreed - which is why I best-of-afp'd it. :-)
esmi
esmi
>Mark Datko <mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Funny ?? oh if only.... There have been one or two funny posts
>> over the years ;-) Best of afp anyone ?
>That would be a rather large collection.
And again...
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/best-of-afp/>
Currently weighing in with only 13 posts covering a time period from
Dec 97 to March 03. Primarily because I'd very much like someone other
than myself to suggest posts for a change.
>And the thread arguing
>about the inclusions would be even larger....:-)
In which case, I'd probably timeline it...
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/index2.html>
This advertisment has been brought to you by the letters 'www. and the
words 'lspace' and 'org'.
:-)
esmi
esmi
>"Orjan Westin" <nos...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:bjauaf$glom2$1...@ID-90122.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> whatdoyouthinkofTheTaleOfWestalaAndVilltin?
>Um, if you told me where to find it, I could maybe
>tell you.
The first three chapters can be found at:
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/westala-and-villtin.html>
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/westala-and-villtin-
chapter-two.html>
and
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/westala-and-villtin-
chapter-three.html>
respectively.
Graycat is working on publishing Chapter 4 on L-Space Web soon, aren't
you Elin, dear? ;-)
esmi
Marco Villalta
> Sylvain Chambon wrote:
[corrupting^W introducing Stacie to the Tale]
>> The Tale of Westala and Villtin is a work in progress written in
>> turns by Orjan and Marco, two Swedish afpers. Particular features
>> are bad puns, lots of cameos by afpers, bad puns, lots of
>> Scandinavian jokes, bad puns, and did I mention bad puns?
>
> Um. You forget to mention that we do not talk to each other about
> what is going to happen. I think Marco started having a plot long
> before me,
Probably, but the reason for that is that plot is the only thing
I *can* do.
Although this last... good gods... year-and-a-half has definitely
improved my writing skills, and I can sometimes manage to cran
out a halfway decent dialogue. But I still can't do characters
worth a damn.
> but since I have no idea what it is I have tried not
> to interfere with it.
<g> I recall mailing you shortly after we'd started, saying I
wasn't sure if it was OK for me to "move the story along",
instead of just wibbling a bit and waiting for you to do it.
Hey, you're the eloquent long-time regular, and I was an
undisciplined rookie, so as far as I knew you were in charge...
... in my first episode, I wasn't even sure it was appropriate of
me to get them inside the city gates, hence the somewhat...
drawn-out procedure.
BTW, I'm thinking of following your lead (don't I always?) and
mailing a key to all the intentional references in the last piece
out to the crew. But I want to hold off a bit more until someone
has another stab at the Koh e-Imaarat reference, now that I've
released some new clues.
Ed Weatherup
news:bjd5jj$2ic$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Good point - a "game of skill and dexterity, involving tortoises" -
- I *knew* I recognised your name from somewhere :-)
--
Ed Weatherup (Now that's a name that almost nobody can ever spell!)
Richard Eney
Stacie Hanes <esmer...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Mary Messall" <mmes...@ups.edu> wrote
>
>> I have a question. Why is it that all the "literary" novels I read
>> center on such unlikable characters?
>
>My personal theory, and here's me taking my chances, is that "pleasant"
>and "interesting" are not synonyms--the just coincide sometimes. Just
>to pick one you mention, _The Scarlet Letter_ was written by a man who had a
>lot to say about religion and faith. He also wrote _Youngs Goodman Brown_,
>which I consider a precursor to modern fantasy fiction.
It certainly seems like a lot of modern fantasy on the surface. But I see
it as - bear in mind, I'm probably misusing this precise literary term -
an allegory for a man's loss of faith. "Goodman Brown" is a generic name
like "Everyman". His wife is actually named "Faith". One night he
investigates the darkness and finds out the dark side of his Faith - that
the Puritan religion he followed inevitably meant that the chances of
being saved were nil, for all practical purposes, and the most sensible
behavior - as defined by the religion itself - was to follow the dark
side, in the hope of less pain. The gloomy ending is that, although he
lost any love for it, he never found a sustitute either.
<Ahem.> Hi, I'm Tamar and I studied Eng.Lit. in college...
I've occasionally committed litcrit here and PterryOBE has been very kind
about it.
=Tamar
Stacie Hanes
"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:bje37g$s8h$2...@news1.radix.net...
It can be both at the same time, as far as I'm concerned.
It is about the loss of faith, and it has supernatural
elements (the big ones!). I consider it a precursor to
modern fantasy because he doesn't say "there's a dark
side to faith," but instead tells a story. That's been going
on for thousands of years, and has been taken seriously.
Biblical parables, whatever, we use fantastic stories to
teach. But _Young Goodman Brown_ is technically more
like a modern short story than a parable, and has those
supernatural elements. I don't disagree with your take on it at all.
I feel that we, the afp sort, know this about fantasy. It's why Discworld
books aren't just funny, they're _really
good_.
Stacie
Kevin Ballard
> Let's all tell our newbie stories.
Ok. This is my first post. Anywhere [1].
Boy, that was short.
Anyway, I've been lurking here for about 3 or 4 days, and have read a
decent amount of the 1,300 posts available on my news server. I've read
all the Discworld books currently available in paperback, and stumbled
across this newsgroup [2] while perusing the list of groups available on
my newsserver, now that I actually know how to use them :-D
[1] Well, not counting the few posts I made to my school's [3] newsgroup
for my Physics 1111 class. Those went to about 3 people, from my class.
[2] Well, alt.books.pratchett, but I found this group from that one
[3] WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute)
--
Kevin Ballard
http://www.tildesoft.com
Kevin Ballard
> Wurrrl, I recounted, and it's 15 footnotes in 18 pages.
> But if your kink runs that way, it's online on my
> _Northanger Abbey_ page at this address:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~esmeraldus/paper.pdf
> I wrote it as the big paper in my senior seminar as an
> undergrad. My main pride is that I actually turned
> it in exactly as it is.
Wow. I can't believe I actually read that whole thing. I'm usually not big
on reading long [1] essays. But that was quite interesting, especially
since I've actually read a Jane Austen novel [2] so I knew what you were
talking about :-D
BTW, for those who don't want to go through the whole thing, page 12 has
the "Aaargh, gurglegurglegkkk; bleed, thud" footnote.
[1] Or semi-long
[2] Pride and Prejudice [3]
[3] A very good novel. I heartily recommend reading it. That novel was
probably the best part of the English class I read it in.
Stacie Hanes
"Kevin Ballard" <ke...@wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.56.03...@ccc6.WPI.EDU...
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Stacie Hanes wrote:
>
> > Wurrrl, I recounted, and it's 15 footnotes in 18 pages.
> > But if your kink runs that way, it's online on my
> > _Northanger Abbey_ page at this address:
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~esmeraldus/paper.pdf
> > I wrote it as the big paper in my senior seminar as an
> > undergrad. My main pride is that I actually turned
> > it in exactly as it is.
>
> Wow. I can't believe I actually read that whole thing. >I'm usually not
big on reading long [1] essays. But that >was quite interesting, especially
since I've actually read a >Jane Austen novel [2] so I knew what you were
> talking about :-D
Jeepers, I can't believe you read it, either. It's one of my
favorites, but reading someone elses uni essays is risky behavior....
>
> BTW, for those who don't want to go through the whole thing, page 12 has
> the "Aaargh, gurglegurglegkkk; bleed, thud" footnote.
>
Valuable information for those who only want to see
why that's there.
Stacie
April Goodwin-Smith
>
<snip>
>
> Maybe when I'm done, we could have a poll to see whether
> he gets a copy or not.
>
I vote he does, with a suitable dedication, simply because it
will make future collectors and museum curators swoon with
unrequited yearning.
April.
--
"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things. Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988)
April Goodwin-Smith
>
> <snip> Hardly a character among them that you'd want to spend
> half an hour in conversation with, much less many hours inside
> their heads. Some pretty sentences, of course, but I couldn't
> help feeling that the real attraction was supposed to be more
> a kind of schadenfreude... That we were supposed to enjoy
> feeling superior to these people, pity them perhaps, but also
> enjoy their well-earned discomfiture.
>
Yes! I loathe most short stories for this reason - it has
struck me that it's a sort of voyeurism. Titillation without
fuss and muss.
And yet, I also think that often times it is the lack of
context that prevents appreciation of these works. I read
Grapes of Wrath outside of any class, and was very moved by
it - but then I'm descended from people driven from the farms
in the '30s. The poverty and the shame and the impotent rage
was very real to my grandparents.
And on the third hand, some works written in the literary
manner are just plain bad.
Graycat
>Graycat is working on publishing Chapter 4 on L-Space Web soon, aren't
>you Elin, dear? ;-)
In fact, it's still chapter 3 and I just emailed you about it.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/index.html
From adress valid, but rarely checked. Use Reply-To to contact me
Lesley Weston
I can't think of anything new just now (nothing funny, anyway), but it does
seem to be a recurrent theme. There's the one about whether cats should or
should not be neutered (in which I was heavily involved) the one about
somebody's new Rex cat and what it should be named, and the permanent
threads about Schroedinger's cat and cats-and-toast. What are the odds that
this post will start a sub-thread about cat threads?
Lesley Weston.
Lesley Weston
es...@lspace.org wrote on 06/09/2003 2:41 PM:
>
>> On 05 Sep 2003, Lesley Weston <les...@vancouverbc.net> wrote
>>> in article
>>> pan.2003.09.05...@news.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk,
>>> Sanity at sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk wrote on
>>> 05/09/2003 3:30 AM:
>>>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:59:27 +0100, Mark Datko
>>>> <mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote in article
>>>> <bj9c8g$gmdtj$1...@ID-201279.news.uni-berlin.de>:
>>
>>>>> Best of afp anyone ?
>>
>>>> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a3uq1c%24ej2%241%40library.ls
>>>> <pace.org>
>>>> says it all, I think...
>>
>>> No cats?
>>
>> You offering one?
>>
>> A post, I mean...not a cat. Well a post about cats preferably...
>>
>> OK - I'll just sit down in the corner and mumble quietly...
On second thoughts...
I don't do humour very well to order, only when inspiration hits (and not
even then, some will say), so this is the best I could manage:
When afpers start threads on The Cat
They're probably going to bat
Around thoughts upon Schroeding
Er's nasty foreboding
Or the toast-covered cat acrobat.
Lesley Weston.
Cathy Young
> From: "Aquarion" <drw...@tmbg.org>
>>Actually, if you're a lurker,
>>I'd be interested in why.
>>Do we - as posters - appear to be a difficult group to join?
>
> Well, yes. Sort of. Or possibly it's me, although I'm obviously
> not the only one. I've posted a few times; three or four, maybe.
> Before I posted the first time, I read the afp FAQS several times,
> read more than one netiquette webpage, and lurked for a few
> weeks--reading EVERYTHING. I freakin' _studied_ for afp.
>
> I don't think I'm a dim bulb, and I'm not easily intimidated in
> the substantial world--but you guys scare the beejeebers out of
> me. The posts I've sent went through more drafts than papers I
> turn in at the university, and a few were deleted without sending.
> The number of possible mistakes is daunting...
I've been reading this thread and thinking, "Thank God, it's not just
me."
Yes, I found - and, two years later, still find - afp to be rather
intimidating. Now I know this is quite a lot down to me, because heaven
knows, I'm none too good at stepping up in front of a whole crowd of
people even at the best of times. But ironically enough, it's afp's
best qualities that make it somewhat daunting to a newbie (or, at
least, to me).
It's the huge amount of history that this newsgroup has, and the in-
jokes that go with it. It's the sense of the afp c*mm*n*ty, that there
are large groups of people who all know each other offline as well as
online. It's the fact that most afpers are (or seem to be) eloquent,
intelligent and witty people who can hold fantastically interesting and
detailed conversations on any topic under the sun. It's the fact that
you guys command my awe and respect more than any other group of people
I know, and the irrepressable feeling that if I opened my mouth in
front of you, I'd look stupid.
This is why I've been here for two years and posted less than 150
articles (or rather, that /was/ why - from now on my excuse is lack of
time due to a full-time job). I don't have a lot of confidence and I'm
not good at stepping into conversations midway through. I even
chickened out of attending my first afp meet yesterday because a friend
wasn't going to be there. This is something I really have to work on,
because I'd really like to be a more active afper. I suppose the first
step is to actually start posting.
Oh, look. I did it :)
--
Cathy
http://www.bentbacktulips.co.uk/
Eric Jarvis
>
> <big snip>
>
> I suppose the first step is to actually start posting.
>
> Oh, look. I did it :)
>
and rather eloquently I thought
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
Mole
<benan...@mouleb.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Moules - what could you possibly do to moules which is unspeakable
>Ben Moule
>
Many times.
I'm surprised I'm still here.
(Do I count as an Old Fart yet?)
--
MegaMole, the Official Enrico Basilica
\\\\\ laaa! mole at lspace dot org Liff, Filks, Stuff
\\\\\\\_o / "I'll sit in the U-bend and think about death."
__ \\\\\'c/__ Hitting the high notes with hedgehogs since 2001
Mole
Young <cyou...@suespammers.org> writes
>I even
>chickened out of attending my first afp meet yesterday because a friend
>wasn't going to be there. This is something I really have to work on,
>because I'd really like to be a more active afper.
Yes.
And you've been to another meet which wasn't an afpmeet but turned into
one.
See?
Sanity
wrote in article <MPG.19c59e4b1...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>:
> Cathy Young wrote:
>>
>> <big snip>
>>
>> I suppose the first step is to actually start posting.
>>
>> Oh, look. I did it :)
>>
>
> and rather eloquently I thought
couldn't have said it better myself ;-)
TTFN,
Michel AKA Sanity
--
"Sanity shall make ye -ing fret": | "A cat has 40 million hairs: 5
www.affordable-prawns.co.uk | million on its back, 10 million on
www.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk | its belly, and 25 million on your
Check the AFPChess Tournament! | couch." --Midas Dekkers
April Goodwin-Smith
> esmi wrote:
> > Lesley Weston wrote:
> >> Sanity wrote:
> >>>> Best of afp anyone ?
> >>> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a3uq1c%24ej2%241%40library.ls
> >>> <pace.org>
> >>> says it all, I think...
> >> No cats?
> > You offering one?
> > A post, I mean...not a cat. Well a post about cats
> > preferably...
> > OK - I'll just sit down in the corner and mumble quietly...
>
> I can't think of anything new just now (nothing funny,
> anyway), but it does seem to be a recurrent theme. There's
> the one about whether cats should or should not be neutered
> (in which I was heavily involved) the one about somebody's
> new Rex cat and what it should be named, and the permanent
> threads about Schroedinger's cat and cats-and-toast. What
> are the odds that this post will start a sub-thread about
> cat threads?
>
Ah, my cue.
Lesley, my little bon vivante of the wet coast, aka lotus
land - I have a new adolescent male cat in need of a home.
Would you be interested? :)
Dom
<snip AFP is a scary place>
>This is why I've been here for two years and posted less than 150
>articles (or rather, that /was/ why - from now on my excuse is lack of
>time due to a full-time job). I don't have a lot of confidence and I'm
>not good at stepping into conversations midway through.
*150* posts? That's doesn't really imply "lack of confidence" to
me.
>I even chickened out of attending my first afp meet yesterday because
>a friend wasn't going to be there.
You should have come. There were lots of friendly people there.
Some of them even went out of their way to try and make me feel
welcome (thanks Jenny, Kincaid and all the others[1]).
>This is something I really have to work on, because I'd really like to
>be a more active afper.
>I suppose the first step is to actually start posting.
Full marks on having completed step 1 then :-)
[1] I have the memory of a Goldfish for names, faces and castles.
I'm sure the Goldfish wants it back.
--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA
ingenious paradox
<e...@nospam-thankyou.co.uk> wrote:
<something I had to copy back in, because he used a valid sigseparator
and I never knew it worked ;-) >
>Ed Weatherup (Now that's a name that almost nobody can ever spell!)
Why on earth not?
OK, maybe people might think it's possibly "whether", but apart from
that, it's just 2 straightforward english words stuck together.
Mind you, I can't talk.... I think it was a (probably unrelated)
Nelson Winkless III who described it as "easy to spell, just hard to
believe"... ;-)
LBs
Julie Winkless
esmi
<snip>
>It's the huge amount of history that this newsgroup has, and the in-
>jokes that go with it.
<http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/>
can be a good source of background information on the roots of some of
those in-jokes. And if anyone happens to notice any large gaps in
background info, I'd be more than happy to hear about it.
esmi
esmi
>Andrew Gray wrote:
>> Wasn't there a fanfic list? I'm sure I remember some discussion
>> about one a while back... not that I'd have paid much attention,
>> but...
>I think it might be kinda inactive.
I think it might be kinda dead. :-)
A quick investigation over the past few days suggests that the person
who originally hosted the fanfic list has now moved on. Lspace.org
never actually hosted the list but just provided an alias email
address. Given now that it has been confirmed that the forwarding
addres no longer exists, I think the alias will also disappear asap.
>There is, however, a Discworld
>category at fanfiction.net, probably on the basis that it's not
>really a place that Pterry can stumble on by accident.
Beth, can you send me any details on this? The site appears to be down
for maintenance atm.
esmi
Mary Messall
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Mary Messall wrote:
> > Let's all tell our newbie stories.
> Ok. This is my first post. Anywhere [1].
And it's footnoted. Remarkable.
> Anyway, I've been lurking here for about 3 or 4 days, and have read a
> decent amount of the 1,300 posts available on my news server. I've read
> all the Discworld books currently available in paperback, and stumbled
> across this newsgroup [2] while perusing the list of groups available on
> my newsserver, now that I actually know how to use them :-D
More than I knew, when I started. Anyway, make yourself at home; call
the cat anything you like, etc.
> [1] Well, not counting the few posts I made to my school's [3] newsgroup
> for my Physics 1111 class. Those went to about 3 people, from my class.
> [3] WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute)
That'd be Worcester, Massachusetts? Nearly ended up there myself. I was
admitted to Clark University, for their physics PhD program, as a
matter of fact...
-Mary
Mary Messall
> *150* posts? That's doesn't really imply "lack of confidence" to
> me.
6.25 posts per month, on average. There have been *days* when I've
posted more than that. <g>
-Mary
Kevin Ballard
> > [3] WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute)
>
> That'd be Worcester, Massachusetts? Nearly ended up there myself. I was
> admitted to Clark University, for their physics PhD program, as a
> matter of fact...
Yes, that would be Worcester, Massachustts. It's only about half an hour's
drive from my home, which is nice (although I can't have a car there for
the first year - not enough parking for freshmen).
Heh, it would be something if someone else on this group was here at WPI
and I met up with them. I've never met anybody I know online in real life.
Richard Eney
Stacie Hanes <esmer...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote
>> Stacie Hanes <esmer...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > _The Scarlet Letter_ was written by a man who had a
>> >lot to say about religion and faith. He also wrote _Youngs Goodman
>> >Brown_, which I consider a precursor to modern fantasy fiction.
>>
>> It certainly seems like a lot of modern fantasy on the surface. But I see
>> it as - bear in mind, I'm probably misusing this precise literary term -
>> an allegory for a man's loss of faith.
<snip>
>It can be both at the same time, as far as I'm concerned.
>It is about the loss of faith, and it has supernatural
>elements (the big ones!). I consider it a precursor to
>modern fantasy because he doesn't say "there's a dark
>side to faith," but instead tells a story.
No argument there. If it doesn't tell a story, it's a bad allegory.
It's certainly possibly for a story to have meanings beyond its surface,
even when it's an allegory (a more noticeable form of meaning than
is generally popular nowadays).
What marks _YGB_ for me as "more allegory than modern fantasy" is the
gloomy ending. Since it probably wouldn't have been published in
that era if it had had any of the endings that would now be acceptable,
Hawthorne probably was stuck with the end he gave it; however, that end
also leaves the reader, as is YGB himself, caught at the moment of
perceiving the fatal flaw built into the religion by which he has
lived up to then. For me, a properly designed story must have some
closure, but _YGB_ doesn't. That makes it more "teaching allegory"
than "story", for me.
>That's been going on for thousands of years, and has been taken
>seriously. Biblical parables, whatever, we use fantastic stories
>to teach. But _Young Goodman Brown_ is technically more
>like a modern short story than a parable, and has those
>supernatural elements. I don't disagree with your take on it at all.
IMO an allegory is less obvious than a parable, but more obvious than a
subtext. (I don't want to get into the whole question of how much "hidden
meaning" an author deliberately inserts into a story. I'm not a
mindreader.)
>I feel that we, the afp sort, know this about fantasy. It's why
>Discworld books aren't just funny, they're _really good_.
AOL.
=Tamar
SteveD
electrons together and said:
>Stacie, I'm a fashion student. On a whole, the majority of the breed
>aren't known for common sense, and I admit I'm not the most practical
>of thinkers sometimes. In the pub quiz of life, you would beat me. I
>have no idea what the difference between physics and quantum physics
>is, or know the capital of Australia.
"The sheep paddock where we send all the politicians to keep them out of
the way."
One of the reasons that I don't believe Australia would suffer much from
the terrorist attacks that our current leadership seat-warmer is so
desperately trying to attract so he'll have something to distract the
population with, is that (the usual hysterical media aside,) we'd shrug
and get on with our lives.
After all, what do we have worth blowing up? Tourist attractions like
the Sydney Harbour Bridge or the Opera House? We'd rebuild them. Natural
beautiful landscapes? You'd have to nuke them to make a difference, and
we have plenty of others. Parliament House? Hell, we'd help the
terrorists plant the explosives - it's not like we have a shortage of
politicians.
We'd probably be a bit pissed off if someone carpet-nuked the Barrier
Reef, but that'd be more from the perspective of "Bit harsh, mate. What
did those fish ever do to you?"
-SteveD
--
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box
when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
- Terry
Stig M. Valstad
>
>Although this last... good gods... year-and-a-half has definitely
>improved my writing skills, and I can sometimes manage to cran
>out a halfway decent dialogue. But I still can't do characters
>worth a damn.
It's a good thing you have all these ready-made characters, then.
And I'm sure it's a good thing that I haven't been used, yet.
Wouldn't have lasted a day in a world like that, anyway.
--
Stig M. Valstad
"I don't like myself much" -- JtHM