PHP Developer needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
Description: Position is part of a team that provides development, design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web-based services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box who wants to work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
. Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, this position is the lead developer for planning, developing, implementing, testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal modules, interactive forms, social networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP Developer will liaise with database and automations developers to build web applications, reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, authentication server, and databases.
. This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development standards, and other modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps and written descriptions into web sites, applications, and front-end components.
. The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Management System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, custom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permission and security settings, and web environment requirements.
. This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and scale web application code, web content (including images, rich media, documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
. The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical and non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, technical specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web applications.
. This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online technologies.
. The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security.
Requirements:
. Bachelor's degree with three or more years experience in designing, programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or equivalent years combination of education and significant related experience).
.Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent organization and communication skills.
Preferred:
.Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, mass emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management and ecommerce.
Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> *PHP Developer* needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> *Description:* Position is part of a team that provides development, > design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and > web-based services. We want someone innovative to think outside the > box who wants to work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> . Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, > this position is the lead developer for planning, developing, > implementing, testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal > modules, interactive forms, social networking platforms, and data > presentation widgets. The PHP Developer will liaise with database and > automations developers to build web applications, reports, and modules > linked directly to a custom CRM, authentication server, and databases.
> . This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web > sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, > JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development > standards, and other modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will > translate design comps and written descriptions into web sites, > applications, and front-end components.
> . The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content > Management System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, > custom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable > permission and security settings, and web environment requirements.
> . This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and > scale web application code, web content (including images, rich media, > documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
> . The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical > and non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, > technical specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web > applications.
> . This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online > technologies.
> . The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with > monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and > security.
> *Requirements:*
> . Bachelor's degree with three or more years experience in designing, > programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or > equivalent years combination of education and significant related > experience).
> .Must have demonstrable mastery of *PHP*, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS > for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency > in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best > practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and > excellent organization and communication skills.
> *Preferred:*
> .Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database > concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, > mass emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management > and ecommerce.
> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, so those of you out there with a better understanding of the current employment reality, please enlighten me.
This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig to be a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent paragraph:
Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent organization and communication skills.
So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP expert? Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top of all that, gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well-versed in diplomacy as well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, right?). I can't tell for sure, but it also sounds like the candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
Thoughts?
e
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com>wrote:
> *PHP Developer* needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> *Description:* Position is part of a team that provides development, > design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web-based > services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box who wants to > work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> • Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, this > position is the lead developer for planning, developing, implementing, > testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal modules, interactive > forms, social networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP > Developer will liaise with database and automations developers to build web > applications, reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, > authentication server, and databases.
> • This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web sites > using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, > AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development standards, and other > modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps and > written descriptions into web sites, applications, and front-end components.
> • The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Management > System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, custom CSS based > Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permission and security > settings, and web environment requirements.
> • This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and scale web > application code, web content (including images, rich media, documents, and > HTML), and dynamic data.
> • The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical and > non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, technical > specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web applications.
> • This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online > technologies.
> • The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with monitoring > sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security.
> *Requirements:*
> • Bachelor’s degree with three or more years experience in designing, > programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or equivalent > years combination of education and significant related experience).
> •Must have demonstrable mastery of *PHP*, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for > layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern > web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, > experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > organization and communication skills.
> *Preferred:*
> •Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database > concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, mass > emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management and > ecommerce.
> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
I find that job postings like that are usually written by an HR person with some very casual input by the senior developer (if there is one). As a result, they get completely mangled in the process.
The HR world hasn't yet figured out how highly specialized we are in these areas. Or at least, they aren't acting like it. This is why jobs at tech sector companies usually get filled a lot faster, I think. They know whom to ask for what.
- M.
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Ed Holzinger <ed.holzin...@gmail.com>wrote:
> So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, so those > of you out there with a better understanding of the current employment > reality, please enlighten me.
> This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig to be > a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent paragraph:
> Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for > layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern > web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, > experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > organization and communication skills.
> So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP expert? > Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top of all that, > gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well-versed in diplomacy as > well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, right?). I can't tell for sure, > but it also sounds like the candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring > sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
> All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
> Thoughts?
> e
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com>wrote:
>> *PHP Developer* needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
>> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
>> *Description:* Position is part of a team that provides development, >> design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web-based >> services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box who wants to >> work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
>> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
>> • Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, this >> position is the lead developer for planning, developing, implementing, >> testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal modules, interactive >> forms, social networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP >> Developer will liaise with database and automations developers to build web >> applications, reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, >> authentication server, and databases.
>> • This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web >> sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, >> JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development standards, and >> other modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps >> and written descriptions into web sites, applications, and front-end >> components.
>> • The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Management >> System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, custom CSS based >> Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permission and security >> settings, and web environment requirements.
>> • This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and scale >> web application code, web content (including images, rich media, documents, >> and HTML), and dynamic data.
>> • The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical and >> non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, technical >> specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web applications.
>> • This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online >> technologies.
>> • The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with monitoring >> sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security.
>> *Requirements:*
>> • Bachelor’s degree with three or more years experience in designing, >> programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or equivalent >> years combination of education and significant related experience).
>> •Must have demonstrable mastery of *PHP*, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS >> for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in >> modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, >> experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent >> organization and communication skills.
>> *Preferred:*
>> •Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database >> concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, mass >> emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management and >> ecommerce.
>> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
>> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net >> To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe, send email to >> washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> I find that job postings like that are usually written by an HR person > with some very casual input by the senior developer (if there is one). > As a result, they get completely mangled in the process.
> The HR world hasn't yet figured out how highly specialized we are in > these areas. Or at least, they aren't acting like it. This is why jobs > at tech sector companies usually get filled a lot faster, I think. > They know whom to ask for what.
> - M.
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Ed Holzinger <ed.holzin...@gmail.com > <mailto:ed.holzin...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, > so those of you out there with a better understanding of the > current employment reality, please enlighten me.
> This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the > gig to be a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent > paragraph:
> Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / > DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG > editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, > JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience > with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > organization and communication skills.
> So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP > expert? Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on > top of all that, gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be > well-versed in diplomacy as well, apparently (liaise? you're > kidding, right?). I can't tell for sure, but it also sounds like > the candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring sites > and servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
> All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
> Thoughts?
> e
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker > <nbar...@barkersearch.com <mailto:nbar...@barkersearch.com>> wrote:
> *PHP Developer* needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> *Description:* Position is part of a team that provides > development, design, and analysis of web sites, web-based > applications, and web-based services. We want someone > innovative to think outside the box who wants to work with > leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> . Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / > tools, this position is the lead developer for planning, > developing, implementing, testing, and supporting custom web > applications, drupal modules, interactive forms, social > networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP > Developer will liaise with database and automations developers > to build web applications, reports, and modules linked > directly to a custom CRM, authentication server, and databases.
> . This person will develop and maintain the intranet and > extranet web sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and > accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation > layer development standards, and other modern web > technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps > and written descriptions into web sites, applications, and > front-end components.
> . The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom > Content Management System developed in Drupal including a > custom module set, custom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page > templates, scalable permission and security settings, and web > environment requirements.
> . This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, > and scale web application code, web content (including images, > rich media, documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
> . The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including > technical and non-technical staff) to develop site > architecture, navigation, technical specifications, and > requirements for new web sites and web applications.
> . This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / > online technologies.
> . The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff > with monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems > stability and security.
> *Requirements:*
> . Bachelor's degree with three or more years experience in > designing, programming, and planning web sites and > applications required (or equivalent years combination of > education and significant related experience).
> .Must have demonstrable mastery of *PHP*, MySQL, JavaScript / > DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG > editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, > JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience > with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > organization and communication skills.
> *Preferred:*
> .Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational > database concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and > reporting tools, mass emailing software such as Lyris or > Listserv, project management and ecommerce.
> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your > resume.
> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - > http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > <mailto:washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com> > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:washington-dcphp-group%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > <mailto:washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com> > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:washington-dcphp-group%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
This is all recruiters seem to be pushing lately. I'd posit that anyone who finds dreamweaver acceptable in a dev environment, or would even mention a wysiwyg markup generator in a professional setting isn't looking for a 'master' of either php or mysql and falls squarely in the "doesn't know what they don't know" category.
That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job market right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an excuse to get away with murder.
--
On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Marcel Esser <marcel.es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find that job postings like that are usually written by an HR > person with some very casual input by the senior developer (if there > is one). As a result, they get completely mangled in the process.
> The HR world hasn't yet figured out how highly specialized we are in > these areas. Or at least, they aren't acting like it. This is why > jobs at tech sector companies usually get filled a lot faster, I > think. They know whom to ask for what.
> - M.
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Ed Holzinger > <ed.holzin...@gmail.com> wrote: > So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, > so those of you out there with a better understanding of the current > employment reality, please enlighten me.
> This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig > to be a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent > paragraph:
> Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS > for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency > in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best > practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and > excellent organization and communication skills.
> So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP > expert? Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top > of all that, gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well- > versed in diplomacy as well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, > right?). I can't tell for sure, but it also sounds like the > candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring sites and > servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
> All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
> Thoughts?
> e
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com > > wrote: > PHP Developer needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> Description: Position is part of a team that provides development, > design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web- > based services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box > who wants to work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> • Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools > , this position is the lead developer for planning, developing, impl > ementing, testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal mo > dules, interactive forms, social networking platforms, and data pr > esentation widgets. The PHP Developer will liaise with database and > automations developers to build web applications, reports, and modul > es linked directly to a custom CRM, authentication server, and datab > ases.
> • This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet we > b sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTM > L, JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development sta > ndards, and other modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will tr > anslate design comps and written descriptions into web sites, applic > ations, and front-end components.
> • The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Mana > gement System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, cus > tom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permissi > on and security settings, and web environment requirements.
> • This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and sc > ale web application code, web content (including images, rich media, > documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
> • The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technica > l and non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, > technical specifications, and requirements for new web sites and we > b applications.
> • This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online te > chnologies.
> • The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with moni > toring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and securi > ty.
> Requirements:
> • Bachelor’s degree with three or more years experience in > designing, programming, and planning web sites and applications requ > ired (or equivalent years combination of education and significant r > elated experience).
> •Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS > for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficienc > y in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and be > st practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, > and excellent organization and communication skills.
> Preferred:
> •Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational databa > se concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting too > ls, mass emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project manage > ment and ecommerce.
> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
Bad staffing agency recruiters should not lower your expectations for their profession any more than the bad programmers who lower the expectations for your profession. There are a lot of people out there who need people to just get the job done, but there are also a lot of people out there who have high standards that define their business practices - both in recruiting and in engineering.
From: washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com [mailto:washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Drinkard Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:53 PM To: Marcel Esser Cc: Washington, DC PHP Developers Group Subject: Re: [dcphp-dev] Re: PHP Developer
This is all recruiters seem to be pushing lately. I'd posit that anyone who finds dreamweaver acceptable in a dev environment, or would even mention a wysiwyg markup generator in a professional setting isn't looking for a 'master' of either php or mysql and falls squarely in the "doesn't know what they don't know" category.
That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job market right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an excuse to get away with murder.
--
On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Marcel Esser <marcel.es...@gmail.com> wrote:
You sound surprised, Ed.
I find that job postings like that are usually written by an HR person with some very casual input by the senior developer (if there is one). As a result, they get completely mangled in the process.
The HR world hasn't yet figured out how highly specialized we are in these areas. Or at least, they aren't acting like it. This is why jobs at tech sector companies usually get filled a lot faster, I think. They know whom to ask for what.
- M.
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Ed Holzinger <ed.holzin...@gmail.com> wrote:
So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, so those of you out there with a better understanding of the current employment reality, please enlighten me.
This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig to be a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent paragraph:
Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent organization and communication skills.
So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP expert? Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top of all that, gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well-versed in diplomacy as well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, right?). I can't tell for sure, but it also sounds like the candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
Thoughts?
e
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com> wrote:
PHP Developer needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
Description: Position is part of a team that provides development, design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web-based services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box who wants to work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
. Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, this position is the lead developer for planning, developing, implementing, testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal modules, interactive forms, social networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP Developer will liaise with database and automations developers to build web applications, reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, authentication server, and databases.
. This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development standards, and other modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps and written descriptions into web sites, applications, and front-end components.
. The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Management System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, custom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permission and security settings, and web environment requirements.
. This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and scale web application code, web content (including images, rich media, documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
. The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical and non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, technical specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web applications.
. This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online technologies.
. The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security.
Requirements:
. Bachelor's degree with three or more years experience in designing, programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or equivalent years combination of education and significant related experience).
.Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent organization and communication skills.
Preferred:
.Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, mass emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management and ecommerce.
Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
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Dan Drinkard wrote: > That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job > market right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an > excuse to get away with murder.
Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open about it.
It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. and reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
Truth be told, this one is nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the stuff that's been going around. I've never heard of such a thing as a competent developer who doesn't know how to provision a LAMP stack or write a little front-end code, and they're only asking for 3 years experience. "Demonstrable mastery" is a bit hilarious, but you lost me at 'leading edge web tools' (plz halp streemline our huge legacy codebase lol) and 'custom CRM' (giant spaghetti monster).
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:06 PM, D Keith Casey Jr <ke...@caseysoftware.com>wrote:
>> That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job market >> right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an excuse to get >> away with murder.
> Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open about it.
> It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. and > reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:52 PM, Dan Drinkard <dan.drink...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is all recruiters seem to be pushing lately. I'd posit that > anyone who finds dreamweaver acceptable in a dev environment, or > would even mention a wysiwyg markup generator in a professional > setting isn't looking for a 'master' of either php or mysql and > falls squarely in the "doesn't know what they don't know" category.
> That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job > market right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an > excuse to get away with murder.
As someone who is actively on the job market I'm finding these are the majority of the positions out there. And know what? People are applying in droves. It's as though the recession is just now affecting PHP devs.
I don't bother applying for these jobs anymore and I've found that recruiters are even worse. The gems are few and far between but they are out there.
I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching bag to abuse ;)
Dan Drinkard wrote: > Truth be told, this one is nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the > stuff that's been going around. I've never heard of such a thing as a > competent developer who doesn't know how to provision a LAMP stack or > write a little front-end code, and they're only asking for 3 years > experience. "Demonstrable mastery" is a bit hilarious, but you lost me > at 'leading edge web tools' (plz halp streemline our huge legacy > codebase lol) and 'custom CRM' (giant spaghetti monster).
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:06 PM, D Keith Casey Jr > <ke...@caseysoftware.com <mailto:ke...@caseysoftware.com>> wrote:
> Dan Drinkard wrote:
> That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area > job market right now. Shops are using the slow economic > recovery as an excuse to get away with murder.
> Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open > about it.
> It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. > and reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
> -- > Dan Drinkard > 703.298.3014 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:05 PM, jproffer <jprof...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any > more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with employers > today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want recruiters to > continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching bag to abuse > ;)
> Dan Drinkard wrote:
> Truth be told, this one is nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the stuff > that's been going around. I've never heard of such a thing as a competent > developer who doesn't know how to provision a LAMP stack or write a little > front-end code, and they're only asking for 3 years experience. > "Demonstrable mastery" is a bit hilarious, but you lost me at 'leading edge > web tools' (plz halp streemline our huge legacy codebase lol) and 'custom > CRM' (giant spaghetti monster).
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:06 PM, D Keith Casey Jr <ke...@caseysoftware.com > > wrote:
>> Dan Drinkard wrote:
>>> That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job market >>> right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an excuse to get >>> away with murder.
>> Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open about >> it.
>> It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. and >> reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
> -- > Dan Drinkard > 703.298.3014 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
-- Josh Boyd Software Engineer Endeavor Systems, Inc. - Securing the Business of Government joshua.b...@endeavorsystems.com | www.endeavorsystems.com
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:05 PM, jproffer <jprof...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any > more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with employers > today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want recruiters to > continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching bag to abuse > ;)
> Dan Drinkard wrote:
> Truth be told, this one is nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the stuff > that's been going around. I've never heard of such a thing as a competent > developer who doesn't know how to provision a LAMP stack or write a little > front-end code, and they're only asking for 3 years experience. > "Demonstrable mastery" is a bit hilarious, but you lost me at 'leading edge > web tools' (plz halp streemline our huge legacy codebase lol) and 'custom > CRM' (giant spaghetti monster).
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:06 PM, D Keith Casey Jr <ke...@caseysoftware.com > > wrote:
>> Dan Drinkard wrote:
>>> That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job market >>> right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an excuse to get >>> away with murder.
>> Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open about >> it.
>> It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. and >> reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
> -- > Dan Drinkard > 703.298.3014 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
Just think, some poor fool of a hiring manager will be convinced they have found the perfect candidate meeting their budget and all... 6 months later, with little progress... they will be spending twice that for someone to pick up the mess.
No worries here, soon enough our market (php) will correct, and real talent will get it's due. That's usually the story. It just takes time... and a number of failed projects. j
> So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, > so those of you out there with a better understanding of the current > employment reality, please enlighten me.
> This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig > to be a master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent > paragraph:
> Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS > for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency > in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best > practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and > excellent organization and communication skills.
> So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP > expert? Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top > of all that, gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well- > versed in diplomacy as well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, > right?). I can't tell for sure, but it also sounds like the > candidate might need to be a sysadmin: "... monitoring sites and > servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
> All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
> Thoughts?
> e
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com > > wrote: > PHP Developer needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> Description: Position is part of a team that provides development, > design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web- > based services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box > who wants to work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> • Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / > tools, this position is the lead developer for planning, developing, > implementing, testing, and supporting custom web applications, > drupal modules, interactive forms, social networking platforms, and > data presentation widgets. The PHP Developer will liaise with > database and automations developers to build web applications, > reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, authentication > server, and databases.
> • This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet > web sites using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and > accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, AJAX, semantic web presentation layer > development standards, and other modern web technologies. The PHP > Developer will translate design comps and written descriptions into > web sites, applications, and front-end components.
> • The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content > Management System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, > custom CSS based Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable > permission and security settings, and web environment requirements.
> • This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and > scale web application code, web content (including images, rich > media, documents, and HTML), and dynamic data.
> • The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including > technical and non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, > navigation, technical specifications, and requirements for new web > sites and web applications.
> • This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online > technologies.
> • The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with > monitoring sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and > security.
> Requirements:
> • Bachelor’s degree with three or more years experience in > designing, programming, and planning web sites and applications > required (or equivalent years combination of education and > significant related experience).
> •Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS > for layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency > in modern web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best > practices, experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and > excellent organization and communication skills.
> Preferred:
> •Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational > database concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and > reporting tools, mass emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, > project management and ecommerce.
> Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
> Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
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jproffer wrote: > I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any > more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with > employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want > recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another > punching bag to abuse ;)
Agreed on this too. We should mind our manners.. myself included. Whether it's a "great" posting or not, we all benefit from having employers actively hunting to hire people on this list.
That said, for recruiters out there, I have some suggestions:
* Learn a little about the list. Following the policies (which Nancy made a good shot at) is a good step.
* Track the other postings on the list and where they are in terms of skills and compensation. I can't imagine that a recruiter would skip this for competitive research reasons alone;
* If possible, bounce the posting off someone you trust in the field. I don't mean spam random contacts, but show the listing to the team it's going to and collect feedback.
* If members of said team are on the list, have them post it. I'm much more likely to read and potentially pass along a job post from [any one of ~40+ contributors] than some random recruiter.
I have never attended a DC PHP Dev monthly meeting or drinking session at Four Courts in Arlington, have never coded in PHP, barely passed my high school course in C++ Programming, but I am a member of this group and enjoy seeing the emails going back & forth between group members. Whether it be asking for help in a certain situation, a particular place to look for answers, a certain file, etc...I like to view & see what is being said. It helps me in my professional career of being an IT Recruiter here in the Washington, DC Area. If I can pick up 1 thing from these emails, that will help me understand something, and will help me do my job in the future...then it was worth it.
I enjoy learning new things, gaining some kind of new insight into something unkown or unfamiliar to me. I enjoy pushing the boundaries, and ultimately finding new ways to find top talent and fill the positions I have open.
Whatever the case, I am by no means an expert in anything. I am not an expert in Recruiting. I am not an expert in Watching Television, and will never be... nor do I want to be an expert in PHP Programming. But what I will say is that I am Open to new things. I don't make fun or direct negative comments to individuals who are just sharing information.
So what if someone is looking for a PHP Developer, who is a "Master" in Database Development, and has a User Interface Design aspect to their abilities, and is an Administrator to Top it Off! This individual was just passing off information. You can either read it or choose not to. There is no harm in sharing information, something that each and every one of you does on a daily basis while being a member of this group, and asking for help.
I think we all need to re-evaluate ourselfs when making knit-picking comments. Everyone knows that a job description is a list of information, job responsibilities, desired technologies, and qualifications. The individual who is constructing this job requirement is making a WISH LIST, a Christmas List to Santa, a long winded call-out / cry for the PERFECT Candidate to fill some urgent need. In all Honesty, the individual who might possibly fit this 100 point job description, doesn't exist, doesn't live within 25 miles of the job location, makes $40 grand higher in compensation...and probably died 13 years before. It is a Job Description to say the least...and that is all.
What is the problem with someone sending out a job description that has all these skills? Is that a crime? Do you feel in-adequate that you can't fill this role yourself? I mean seriously - just sit back and laugh it off if you think it's a joke...chuckle for a minute or two...maybe an hour or two. But don't hide behind your keyboard, computer, or email address and send off some Reply-All trying to cut someone down just to get the praise & applause of everyone else.
It is just a job opening. You can delete it, print off a copy of it and put it on your cubicle wall so you can look at it and smile everyday, spam it, whatever you choose.
- Derek Kinzel
________________________________
From: washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com on behalf of D Keith Casey Jr Sent: Mon 2/15/2010 9:06 PM To: Dan Drinkard Cc: Marcel Esser; Washington, DC PHP Developers Group Subject: Re: [dcphp-dev] Re: PHP Developer
Dan Drinkard wrote: > That said, I do feel this is pretty representative of the area job > market right now. Shops are using the slow economic recovery as an > excuse to get away with murder.
Completely agreed... but personally, I'm glad they're being open about it.
It allows me to add interesting notes in my fully up to date CRM.. and reminds me of who to make intros to/for later. ;)
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To recruiters, and in comment to any emails above, I can really only give one constructive comment:
Your 100 point checklist is a ridiculously substandard way of finding a qualified candidate in this industry. This is basically the same problem as when non-technical people ask technical questions: You're asking us to enable a specific path instead of asking how to solve a problem within specific constraints - which is an engineering decision, not a management process.
For example:
Bad question: How can I speed up Drupal? Good question: Why is my Drupal site slow?
Bad question: I need a PHP developer that is also a database expert, a UI guru, has great communications skills, and knows Proprietarytechnology 1.0 inside and out. Good question: I need a PHP developer that will work on developing applications driven by Oracle database with billions of rows of records. Additionally, we use Proprietarytechnology 1.0 in the role of XYZ. Developer's responsibilities will likely include negotiating with the client for the UI layout also.
It's late, and my example might be a bit obfuscated, but I think you get my meaning.
So, random thoughts from a hiring manager, speaking entirely for myself, not for my company (My team has no open positions, though Forum One is hiring):
1) This is perhaps not the best job ad in history but it is not that bad. "Mastery" is a very vague word, and nobody wants to advertise for someone who's "mediocre" at PHP, etc. So cut them a little slack that word, which seems to be the big problem for most people.
2) Learn to read job ads for what they really want. They almost all must pass through an HR person who is NOT a programmer, and sometimes vetted language is helpfully "punched up" by some editor before going out, not realizing they're effectively changing the requirements by using more "positive" and "colorful" language. I'm going to use "needless" "quotes" some more, "here."
3) When we've worked with recruiters--and I assure you as a hiring manager I see the same ratio of good/bad ones (hint: don't call me to ask about a position and then demonstrate that you never bothered to visit the company website to look at the description we have posted--and hint: when I say I don't deal with recruiters and you'll have to talk to the same HR person who didn't call you back the last time, you not getting a gig doesn't mean I'm suddenly empowered to deal with recruiters...so...don't call me), we've usually just supplied a position description to them. They didn't alter it much, so the wording may not have changed much if someone from the hiring org posted it themselves.
4) The years of experience and the main technologies mentioned are the important parts of a job ad, as are some of the "types of work environment" experience credentials. The extra stuff is usually requested by the HR person to give them a way to sort through the avalanche of applicants, most of whom are barely if at all qualified, who arrive in their inbox. So if there is, as I once abused a quasi-governmental agency for requesting, a 'magical pony who craps rainbow sherbet is flitting around a meadow somewhere thinking to itself, “You know, I think I’d rather have a government web job,”' they can find it.
5) The key word is "Drupal." They're not really asking for somebody who can invent a new algorithm better than quicksort or even bridge C++ to Ada to PL/SQL to PHP or implement a perfect Strategy pattern using techniques borrowed from OCaml...they're asking for a PHP web developer who can configure, theme, and write some custom modules for Drupal that might work with some outside systems that others seem to be responsible for. Your best bet is to send in a competently formatted (and spell-checked--seriously, do not put "detail-oriented" and have spelling errors) resume and a cover letter addressing the important points and showing how your experience matches those points.
6) And yeah, if you can't hang some Javascript and CSS with XHTML onto those template files, then you're probably not right for the job, and you should move on. And start Googling some tutorials because I know I expect basic Javascript, CSS, and X/HTML out of even backend PHP developers.
7) There are a lot of people applying for much lower-paying jobs, but quite frankly, there are a lot of people who believe in spamming every open position they find with the same resume regardless of whether they're qualified or not. Trust me, it's really obvious to the people on the other side when you do this. You will get much better results if you target your application to the position, and skip ones that you know you're not really right for. I realize this is hard when you're not currently working, but a better effort on likely positions will get you more than minimal effort on every position you find.
8) Not every technical team is that great, and even if they are, they aren't always great at finding the right people for the job, as the temptation is to hire someone like yourself, because hey, you're awesome! Even if someone like yourself isn't really right for the job. It's not smart, but it's really human. So while I have many issues with recruiters, I don't think you can always lay the blame at their feet for not making their clients smarter. Who among us hasn't had to swallow our pride and do something kinda dumb because the guy with the money said he didn't care, he just wanted it that way?
9) If your organization is hiring for a PHP-centric position and you haven't posted the job ad here--and there's no legal/contractual reason you can't--for heaven's sake, why???
10) None of this is to suggest that recruiters don't have problems of bullet-point matching that other people have brought up, or that they shouldn't match candidates to positions using something better than what any random HR person can do in order to make them worth the money.
Hope this is useful to somebody, Sandy
On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, D Keith Casey Jr wrote:
> jproffer wrote: >> I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching bag to abuse ;)
> Agreed on this too. We should mind our manners.. myself included. Whether it's a "great" posting or not, we all benefit from having employers actively hunting to hire people on this list.
> That said, for recruiters out there, I have some suggestions:
> * Learn a little about the list. Following the policies (which Nancy made a good shot at) is a good step.
> * Track the other postings on the list and where they are in terms of skills and compensation. I can't imagine that a recruiter would skip this for competitive research reasons alone;
> * If possible, bounce the posting off someone you trust in the field. I don't mean spam random contacts, but show the listing to the team it's going to and collect feedback.
> * If members of said team are on the list, have them post it. I'm much more likely to read and potentially pass along a job post from [any one of ~40+ contributors] than some random recruiter.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
Wow. How did we get from talking about banning job recruiters on this list two weeks ago to telling each other we need to mind our manners so as not to offend those same recruiters?
Sure, I could simply ignore the posting or print it out for my cubicle and yes, I did chuckle about it a bit and at the same time wondered what other folks thought about it. Thus my question, to a group where questioning things is part and parcel of what we do. At the same time I also was truly curious whether this sort of description is typical. I haven't been job hunting in many a year.
If recruiters can't stand the scrutiny, well maybe this isn't the right forum for them. I enjoy reading the job postings as it does in fact educate me about what's going on. But to suggest we simply accept what's in there and not question or challenge it is rather naive.
For the record, I'm not hiding behind my email address or keyboard or anywhere else. My name is Ed Holzinger, I live in Montgomery County, if you want my phone number, msg me and i'll send it to you. I regularly attend DC-PHP meetings and am known, to those who attend, as a bit of a snark and somewhat of a troublemaker. I work downtown (regular meeting attendees know where and I will tell you in a private msg if you ask) and am willing to meet whomever thinks I'm hiding at any time and any place.
And it's nit-picking. My daughter knit-picks, and quite well. I wear one of her scarves when it's cold and windy.
Ed Holzinger wrote: > Wow. How did we get from talking about banning job recruiters on this > list two weeks ago to telling each other we need to mind our manners so > as not to offend those same recruiters?
Ed,
Let me apologize a bit.
I didn't mean your initial criticism, I thought that was valid and - as always - on point. In fact, you're one of the people that I count on to call BS where it applies. ;) I meant that the huge pile-on - which I participated in - was overkill. I'm sorry that my criticism looked like it was directed at you.
This is what happens when we're all stuck at home for a week!
I was once at a dinner party where I met an HR director looking for programmers. Although she was looking for someone with Rails experience, we kept talking about the position as she was frustrated by not being able to find anyone.
It turned out that the programmers at her company had done absolutely nothing to give her a lay of the land. She had never heard of 37signals and didn't realize that they had a job board exclusively for Rails jobs.
Is this really her fault? I think we can all help make the system work better. Keep in mind that HR is responsible for filling all sorts of positions (accounting, marketing, legal, customer service, etc...), each requiring unique skill sets. If you know that a programming position is coming up in your department, make an effort to find whoever will be responsible for posting the ad and talk with them. Make sure they understand the primary function of the job, and tell them as much as you can about what kinds of applicants you'll be getting.
> So, random thoughts from a hiring manager, speaking entirely for myself, not for my company (My team has no open positions, though Forum One is hiring):
> 1) This is perhaps not the best job ad in history but it is not that bad. "Mastery" is a very vague word, and nobody wants to advertise for someone who's "mediocre" at PHP, etc. So cut them a little slack that word, which seems to be the big problem for most people.
> 2) Learn to read job ads for what they really want. They almost all must pass through an HR person who is NOT a programmer, and sometimes vetted language is helpfully "punched up" by some editor before going out, not realizing they're effectively changing the requirements by using more "positive" and "colorful" language. I'm going to use "needless" "quotes" some more, "here."
> 3) When we've worked with recruiters--and I assure you as a hiring manager I see the same ratio of good/bad ones (hint: don't call me to ask about a position and then demonstrate that you never bothered to visit the company website to look at the description we have posted--and hint: when I say I don't deal with recruiters and you'll have to talk to the same HR person who didn't call you back the last time, you not getting a gig doesn't mean I'm suddenly empowered to deal with recruiters...so...don't call me), we've usually just supplied a position description to them. They didn't alter it much, so the wording may not have changed much if someone from the hiring org posted it themselves.
> 4) The years of experience and the main technologies mentioned are the important parts of a job ad, as are some of the "types of work environment" experience credentials. The extra stuff is usually requested by the HR person to give them a way to sort through the avalanche of applicants, most of whom are barely if at all qualified, who arrive in their inbox. So if there is, as I once abused a quasi-governmental agency for requesting, a 'magical pony who craps rainbow sherbet is flitting around a meadow somewhere thinking to itself, “You know, I think I’d rather have a government web job,”' they can find it.
> 5) The key word is "Drupal." They're not really asking for somebody who can invent a new algorithm better than quicksort or even bridge C++ to Ada to PL/SQL to PHP or implement a perfect Strategy pattern using techniques borrowed from OCaml...they're asking for a PHP web developer who can configure, theme, and write some custom modules for Drupal that might work with some outside systems that others seem to be responsible for. Your best bet is to send in a competently formatted (and spell-checked--seriously, do not put "detail-oriented" and have spelling errors) resume and a cover letter addressing the important points and showing how your experience matches those points.
> 6) And yeah, if you can't hang some Javascript and CSS with XHTML onto those template files, then you're probably not right for the job, and you should move on. And start Googling some tutorials because I know I expect basic Javascript, CSS, and X/HTML out of even backend PHP developers.
> 7) There are a lot of people applying for much lower-paying jobs, but quite frankly, there are a lot of people who believe in spamming every open position they find with the same resume regardless of whether they're qualified or not. Trust me, it's really obvious to the people on the other side when you do this. You will get much better results if you target your application to the position, and skip ones that you know you're not really right for. I realize this is hard when you're not currently working, but a better effort on likely positions will get you more than minimal effort on every position you find.
> 8) Not every technical team is that great, and even if they are, they aren't always great at finding the right people for the job, as the temptation is to hire someone like yourself, because hey, you're awesome! Even if someone like yourself isn't really right for the job. It's not smart, but it's really human. So while I have many issues with recruiters, I don't think you can always lay the blame at their feet for not making their clients smarter. Who among us hasn't had to swallow our pride and do something kinda dumb because the guy with the money said he didn't care, he just wanted it that way?
> 9) If your organization is hiring for a PHP-centric position and you haven't posted the job ad here--and there's no legal/contractual reason you can't--for heaven's sake, why???
> 10) None of this is to suggest that recruiters don't have problems of bullet-point matching that other people have brought up, or that they shouldn't match candidates to positions using something better than what any random HR person can do in order to make them worth the money.
> Hope this is useful to somebody, > Sandy
> On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, D Keith Casey Jr wrote:
>> jproffer wrote: >>> I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching bag to abuse ;)
>> Agreed on this too. We should mind our manners.. myself included. Whether it's a "great" posting or not, we all benefit from having employers actively hunting to hire people on this list.
>> That said, for recruiters out there, I have some suggestions:
>> * Learn a little about the list. Following the policies (which Nancy made a good shot at) is a good step.
>> * Track the other postings on the list and where they are in terms of skills and compensation. I can't imagine that a recruiter would skip this for competitive research reasons alone;
>> * If possible, bounce the posting off someone you trust in the field. I don't mean spam random contacts, but show the listing to the team it's going to and collect feedback.
>> * If members of said team are on the list, have them post it. I'm much more likely to read and potentially pass along a job post from [any one of ~40+ contributors] than some random recruiter.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net >> To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
Specifically, I think point #10 is dead on. As was said, this one in particular really wasn't all that out of the realm of reality, but these posts have been increasingly frustrating when taken as a whole, and that's what I keyed into. I think that every bit as much as an applicant should tailor their resume and approach to a specific job, those looking to fill positions should consider their audience when posting. Whether or not the person they're seeking exists and would be willing to do x work for y compensation should be irrelevant if those numbers are calculated based on what can be gotten away with vs. what's fair and respectable; and naive as that I acknowledge that may be, I'm certainly not going to be less disappointed by that equation and those trying to profit from it.
Feelings about tech recruiters aside, has anyone implemented a fragment caching solution for CodeIgniter that they've been pleased with?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Joseph LeBlanc <cont...@jlleblanc.com>wrote:
> I was once at a dinner party where I met an HR director looking for > programmers. Although she was looking for someone with Rails experience, we > kept talking about the position as she was frustrated by not being able to > find anyone.
> It turned out that the programmers at her company had done absolutely > nothing to give her a lay of the land. She had never heard of 37signals and > didn't realize that they had a job board exclusively for Rails jobs.
> Is this really her fault? I think we can all help make the system work > better. Keep in mind that HR is responsible for filling all sorts of > positions (accounting, marketing, legal, customer service, etc...), each > requiring unique skill sets. If you know that a programming position is > coming up in your department, make an effort to find whoever will be > responsible for posting the ad and talk with them. Make sure they understand > the primary function of the job, and tell them as much as you can about what > kinds of applicants you'll be getting.
> -Joe
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Sandy Smith wrote:
> > So, random thoughts from a hiring manager, speaking entirely for myself, > not for my company (My team has no open positions, though Forum One is > hiring):
> > 1) This is perhaps not the best job ad in history but it is not that bad. > "Mastery" is a very vague word, and nobody wants to advertise for someone > who's "mediocre" at PHP, etc. So cut them a little slack that word, which > seems to be the big problem for most people.
> > 2) Learn to read job ads for what they really want. They almost all must > pass through an HR person who is NOT a programmer, and sometimes vetted > language is helpfully "punched up" by some editor before going out, not > realizing they're effectively changing the requirements by using more > "positive" and "colorful" language. I'm going to use "needless" "quotes" > some more, "here."
> > 3) When we've worked with recruiters--and I assure you as a hiring > manager I see the same ratio of good/bad ones (hint: don't call me to ask > about a position and then demonstrate that you never bothered to visit the > company website to look at the description we have posted--and hint: when I > say I don't deal with recruiters and you'll have to talk to the same HR > person who didn't call you back the last time, you not getting a gig doesn't > mean I'm suddenly empowered to deal with recruiters...so...don't call me), > we've usually just supplied a position description to them. They didn't > alter it much, so the wording may not have changed much if someone from the > hiring org posted it themselves.
> > 4) The years of experience and the main technologies mentioned are the > important parts of a job ad, as are some of the "types of work environment" > experience credentials. The extra stuff is usually requested by the HR > person to give them a way to sort through the avalanche of applicants, most > of whom are barely if at all qualified, who arrive in their inbox. So if > there is, as I once abused a quasi-governmental agency for requesting, a > 'magical pony who craps rainbow sherbet is flitting around a meadow > somewhere thinking to itself, “You know, I think I’d rather have a > government web job,”' they can find it.
> > 5) The key word is "Drupal." They're not really asking for somebody who > can invent a new algorithm better than quicksort or even bridge C++ to Ada > to PL/SQL to PHP or implement a perfect Strategy pattern using techniques > borrowed from OCaml...they're asking for a PHP web developer who can > configure, theme, and write some custom modules for Drupal that might work > with some outside systems that others seem to be responsible for. Your best > bet is to send in a competently formatted (and spell-checked--seriously, do > not put "detail-oriented" and have spelling errors) resume and a cover > letter addressing the important points and showing how your experience > matches those points.
> > 6) And yeah, if you can't hang some Javascript and CSS with XHTML onto > those template files, then you're probably not right for the job, and you > should move on. And start Googling some tutorials because I know I expect > basic Javascript, CSS, and X/HTML out of even backend PHP developers.
> > 7) There are a lot of people applying for much lower-paying jobs, but > quite frankly, there are a lot of people who believe in spamming every open > position they find with the same resume regardless of whether they're > qualified or not. Trust me, it's really obvious to the people on the other > side when you do this. You will get much better results if you target your > application to the position, and skip ones that you know you're not really > right for. I realize this is hard when you're not currently working, but a > better effort on likely positions will get you more than minimal effort on > every position you find.
> > 8) Not every technical team is that great, and even if they are, they > aren't always great at finding the right people for the job, as the > temptation is to hire someone like yourself, because hey, you're awesome! > Even if someone like yourself isn't really right for the job. It's not > smart, but it's really human. So while I have many issues with recruiters, I > don't think you can always lay the blame at their feet for not making their > clients smarter. Who among us hasn't had to swallow our pride and do > something kinda dumb because the guy with the money said he didn't care, he > just wanted it that way?
> > 9) If your organization is hiring for a PHP-centric position and you > haven't posted the job ad here--and there's no legal/contractual reason you > can't--for heaven's sake, why???
> > 10) None of this is to suggest that recruiters don't have problems of > bullet-point matching that other people have brought up, or that they > shouldn't match candidates to positions using something better than what > any random HR person can do in order to make them worth the money.
> > Hope this is useful to somebody, > > Sandy
> > On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, D Keith Casey Jr wrote:
> >> jproffer wrote: > >>> I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting > any more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with > employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want > recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another punching > bag to abuse ;)
> >> Agreed on this too. We should mind our manners.. myself included. > Whether it's a "great" posting or not, we all benefit from having employers > actively hunting to hire people on this list.
> >> That said, for recruiters out there, I have some suggestions:
> >> * Learn a little about the list. Following the policies (which Nancy > made a good shot at) is a good step.
> >> * Track the other postings on the list and where they are in terms of > skills and compensation. I can't imagine that a recruiter would skip this > for competitive research reasons alone;
> >> * If possible, bounce the posting off someone you trust in the field. I > don't mean spam random contacts, but show the listing to the team it's going > to and collect feedback.
> >> * If members of said team are on the list, have them post it. I'm much > more likely to read and potentially pass along a job post from [any one of > ~40+ contributors] than some random recruiter.
> >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > >> To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > >> To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this
These suggestions work great for corporate recruiters who are actually working directly with the hiring teams. The staffing agency recruiters (especially the ones who do hit and run job posts to user groups without following the lists they are on) are simply hunting for candidates based on criteria they have been given - usually by a sales rep who sold to the hiring team person on getting their agency's help. That said, they may be working on PHP job one day or maybe for a week and then working on a Sharepoint job and a Oracle DBA job the next.
[mailto:washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of D Keith Casey Jr Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:46 PM To: jproffer Cc: Washington, DC PHP Developers Group Subject: Re: [dcphp-dev] Re: PHP Developer
jproffer wrote: > I think its probably safe to say that Nancy isnt going to be posting any > more jobs here - I know we're all pissed about the situation with > employers today and how they undervalue our skills, but if we want > recruiters to continue posting here perhaps we should find another > punching bag to abuse ;)
Agreed on this too. We should mind our manners.. myself included. Whether it's a "great" posting or not, we all benefit from having employers actively hunting to hire people on this list.
That said, for recruiters out there, I have some suggestions:
* Learn a little about the list. Following the policies (which Nancy made a
good shot at) is a good step.
* Track the other postings on the list and where they are in terms of skills and compensation. I can't imagine that a recruiter would skip this for competitive research reasons alone;
* If possible, bounce the posting off someone you trust in the field. I don't mean spam random contacts, but show the listing to the team it's going to and collect feedback.
* If members of said team are on the list, have them post it. I'm much more
likely to read and potentially pass along a job post from [any one of ~40+ contributors] than some random recruiter.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" - http://www.dcphp.net To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe, send email to washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
The skillset isn't that hard to find. Most developers that have been working for small-to-medium-sized companies for at least 5 years should have that type of experience. Plus, there are a lot of things that probably aren't even real requirements. I've applied to several jobs that mentioned J2EE and they didn't even have a Java development environment, much less existing J2EE code. It's easier to throw out buzzwords and hope that candidates meeting most of the requirements will apply anyway.
The 75k is the bigger issue (by 5 years in, that type of developer should probably be around $95-$105k, IMHO). The lower the salary, the more the headhunter can take off the top. Chances are that the original company is willing to pay about $90-$95k and the headhunter is trying to get about 18-20% of that (highway robbery). It's why I don't like dealing with headhunters / recruiters. The original company still ends up paying full price, while the new employee gets a 18-20% "penalty" in his/her salary, and probably isn't AS satisfied with the company as he/she could have been with a full salary.
I think it would be far better for DC PHP members to post openings from their own workplaces. That way, at least there's some "trust" built into the referral, the member will probably get some referral bonus, and there shouldn't be any penalties to the job hunter.
> So maybe i've been cloistered in my own little world for too long, so those > of you out there with a better understanding of the current employment > reality, please enlighten me.
> This job pays "about" $75K, yet requires the lucky winner of the gig to be a > master of PHP, MySQL, well, let's review the pertinent paragraph:
> Must have demonstrable mastery of PHP, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for > layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern > web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, > experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > organization and communication skills.
> So this developer must be a database expert, a UI expert and a PHP expert? > Oh, and you gotta know Dreamweaver and Photoshop AND on top of all that, > gotta have a fabulous bedside manner? And be well-versed in diplomacy as > well, apparently (liaise? you're kidding, right?). I can't tell for sure, > but it also sounds like the candidate might need to be a sysadmin: > "... monitoring > sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security."
> All this for $75K? Does this person even exist?
> Thoughts?
> e
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nancy Barker <nbar...@barkersearch.com>wrote:> *PHP Developer* needed for a fulltime position in Baltimore, MD
> > Salary to about 75k, excellent benefits
> > *Description:* Position is part of a team that provides development, > > design, and analysis of web sites, web-based applications, and web-based > > services. We want someone innovative to think outside the box who wants to > > work with leading edge web tools focused around PHP.
> > The primary duties and responsibilities of the job:
> > • Using advanced PHP, MySQL, and Drupal coding methodologies / tools, this > > position is the lead developer for planning, developing, implementing, > > testing, and supporting custom web applications, drupal modules, interactive > > forms, social networking platforms, and data presentation widgets. The PHP > > Developer will liaise with database and automations developers to build web > > applications, reports, and modules linked directly to a custom CRM, > > authentication server, and databases.
> > • This person will develop and maintain the intranet and extranet web sites > > using CSS for (tableless) layout, valid and accessible(X)HTML, JavaScript, > > AJAX, semantic web presentation layer development standards, and other > > modern web technologies. The PHP Developer will translate design comps and > > written descriptions into web sites, applications, and front-end components.
> > • The PHP Developer will maintain and extend the custom Content Management > > System developed in Drupal including a custom module set, custom CSS based > > Drupal theme, custom page templates, scalable permission and security > > settings, and web environment requirements.
> > • This position will collaborate to maintain, debug, upgrade, and scale web > > application code, web content (including images, rich media, documents, and > > HTML), and dynamic data.
> > • The PHP Developer will work with project teams (including technical and > > non-technical staff) to develop site architecture, navigation, technical > > specifications, and requirements for new web sites and web applications.
> > • This position will evaluate and recommend emerging web / online > > technologies.
> > • The PHP Developer will support Information Systems staff with monitoring > > sites and servers for usage, and systems stability and security.
> > *Requirements:*
> > • Bachelor’s degree with three or more years experience in designing, > > programming, and planning web sites and applications required (or equivalent > > years combination of education and significant related experience).
> > •Must have demonstrable mastery of *PHP*, MySQL, JavaScript / DOM, CSS for > > layout, (X)HTML (with and without a WYSIWIG editor), proficiency in modern > > web techniques (sIFR, JavaScript frameworks, etc) and best practices, > > experience with Macromedia Dreamweaver and Photoshop, and excellent > > organization and communication skills.
> > *Preferred:*
> > •Experience working with APIs such as Google Apps, relational database > > concepts, PL/SQL, Java, web monitoring concepts and reporting tools, mass > > emailing software such as Lyris or Listserv, project management and > > ecommerce.
> > Please include sample URLs or an online portfolio with your resume.
> > Will provide employer name during discussion of position.
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Group: "Washington, DC PHP Developers Group" -http://www.dcphp.net > > To post, send email to washington-dcphp-group@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > washington-dcphp-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<washington-dcphp-group% 2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/washington-dcphp-group?hl=en
