What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
Cornelius Hamelberg
nations care less about the fate of Libya and Libyans.
An important question for us in this forum, and indeed for the rest
of Africa and diaspora, is why the gaping silence from the Africa
Union, about the lastest antics of the man who has played such a
pivotal role in African Union matters, not least of all in his
largesse in providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also
not least of all his well known ambition to become the first president
of the United States of Africa?
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/23/revolutionary-gaddafi-promises-a-bloodbath-shows-his-true-face-to-the-world-and-to-his-own-people/
Anunoby, Ogugua
Ch
A majority of Africa's political leaders are in different states of shock. They may also be on bended knees in supplication, prayer, and hope. The difference between many of them and Tunisia's Ben Ali, Egypt's Mubarak, and Libya's Gaddafi is not very significant. They are all different species that belong to the same family. How many of them are truly democratically elected leaders? How many of them have allowed or even paid better than lip service to democratic practice? How many of them have created or allowed the development of viable democratic institutions?
Political independence from European colonial powers has been generally followed in Africa and the Middle East by the age of home-grown tyranny .
Foreign occupation of country, however benevolent it tries to be, is still a form of tyranny. When it ends, the home/local potentates that succeed foreign occupiers take over a country without deep and strong democratic traditions. The dominant potentate like a giant octopus, spreads its tentacles and grabs all authority and power. He cherishes this emergent authority and power. By design or fiat, he creates a cabal that transforms itself into a direct replacement of the former foreign occupiers. This cabal and its leader overtime, becomes the country. This leaders knows all and knows best. If it is good for him, it is good for the country. There is now a chemical mesh of his interests and the country's interests. His interest is the public interest.
One tyranny has replaced another. The only difference from the status quo ante is that the current tyranny is domestic which by the way is advantageous to the cabal. It is not foreign and cannot therefore be criticized for that reason. The oppressed know however that tyranny is not acceptable for the reason that it is home-grown and not foreign. The cabal and especially its leader copies and practices the art, ways, and means of the erstwhile foreign occupiers. Former compatriots who also worked to dislodge the foreign powers but now disagree with them become detractors and political enemies. A home grown dictatorship has emerged under the pretext of saving the country from agents of erstwhile foreign occupiers wanting to recreate the situation ante. A local tyranny has replaced a foreign tyranny. Stability becomes the bogey word, rallying call, and also the universal and eternal justification for mindless misrule and gross injustices.
It is no surprise therefore that Africa's political leaders have been sonorously silent on the wave of protests that is rocking the countries of the North Africa and the Middle East. The protests has spread both to the east and west of Tunisia. The next move is southward. Africa's political leaders rightly have nothing to say.
oa
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Dompere, Kofi Kissi
Thank you, Cornelius Hamelberg, for this question.
LIBYA is a member of the African Union. Libya unlike Egypt has a history of supporting the DECOLONIZATION of the continent. She is the most important contributor to OAU Libration Fund. Colonel al-Gaddafi, unlike other North African heads of states, has also invested heavily in Africa. He also was not a sell out. To be fair to our brothers and sisters in Libya, the history does not justify the bloodsheds going on. The events taking place in North Africa, the information technology that has democratized the information space and the activities of the Wiki Leak are leading to a major global restructuring in terms of power, control and governance, the ending structure and form is unknown to us. What we do know is that global institutional transformation is taking place and is a continual process. What do you think?
PEACE
KOFI KISSI DOMPERE.
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:48 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
--
kenneth harrow
imposed an ideological regime on his population worthy of soyinka's more
bitter satires. i wonder why people could fall for his liberation
rhetoric and ignore his repressive actions. reminds me of the rhetoric
of idi amin, turned to the same purposes. and if not always as brutal,
equally hypocritical in the case of ahidjo. or mobutu.
this is the time for the spirit of sony labou tansi to awaken, along
with so many others. dennis brutus, tchicaya u tamsi, we need your
voices again. "not a sell out"--no, he was actually worse. a tyrant. so
what if his billions enabled him to stiff the europeans. what did that
have to do with being a dictator, a brutal ruler.
ken
--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
har...@msu.edu
toyin adepoju
Edward Mensah
The jury is still out on the role(s) Libya played on the decolonization of
continent. It depends on how you cut it. Ask Chad about that decolonization
stuff. There was a time Libya supported all factions of rebel groups in
Chad, just to have access to the uranium located in the Aouzou strip
between Chad and Libya. Note that this strip was given to Italy in 1935
based on the unratified Mussolini-Laval agreement between France and
Italy. Gaddafi claimed that the inhabitants were Libyans and sent troops in
1973 to take over resources. This same Gaddafi sent troops to support
Field Marshall Iddi Amin during the short-lived war between Tanzania and
Uganda. His troops were routed by the well-disciplined Tanzanians. There are
many cases of Gaddafi's misguided interventions in Africa which I will not
really call 'decolonization'. Of course, he contributed to the various
Africa funds, and this is good. But I will not put him in the same class as
African leaders like Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, etc. This guy deserves no
support or respect. Listen to him now. He says he will fight until the last
drop of blood. Who is he bombing? His own people? This is an asshole, if
you ask me.
Kwaku Mensah
mbay...@msu.edu
Dr. Tamba M'bayo
Hope College
Chambi Chachage
My mission is to acquire, produce and disseminate knowledge on and about humanity as well as divinity, especially as it relates to Africa, in a constructive and liberating manner to people wherever they may be.
-------
Address: P. O. Box 4460 Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania
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From: kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 11:04:20 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
Okechukwu Ukaga PhD
See the following article re the position of the AU on this issue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-23/african-union-says-libyan-crackdown-violates-human-rights-1-.html
African Union Condemns Libyan Crackdown, Says It Violates Human Rights
The African Union Peace and Security Council condemned the Libyan government’s crackdown on pro- democracy protests, saying it violated international humanitarian law.
Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi has used “indiscriminate and excessive use of force and lethal weapons against peaceful protesters,” the 53-member African Union’s security body said in a statement e-mailed today after a meeting in Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital.
“The aspirations of the people of Libya for democracy, political reform, justice and socio-economic development are legitimate,” the council said in the statement. Libya’s “territorial integrity and unity” should be preserved.
The council is planning to send a mission to Libya “as soon as possible” to assess the situation in the North African country, council Chairman Kakena S.K. Nangula said earlier.
To contact the reporter on this story: William Davison in Addis Ababa via Johannesburg at pmrich...@bloomberg.net.
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Antony Sguazzin at asgu...@bloomberg.net.
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Okechukwu Ukaga, MBA, PhD
Executive Director, Northeast Minnesota Sustainable Development Partnership
Extension Professor, University of Minnesota Extension
Adjunct Professor, UMD Geography Department
University of Minnesota, 179 University Road, Cloquet, MN 55720
www.regionalpartnerships.umn.edu/northeast
Phone: 218-341-6029 Fax: 218-879-0857
Book Review Editor, Environment, Development and Sustainability
Editor, International Journal of Nigerian Studies and Development
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." - Richard Buckminster Fuller
Cornelius Hamelberg
Extending the discussion a little beyond these parameters:
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/24/we-know-what-sweden-says-but-the-question-is-what-says-the-african-union-about-colonel-al-gaddafi-and-current-events-in-libya/
And I think that Ian Bremmer's J curve covers your thesis about the
new role of information technology on a global scale....
On Feb 23, 7:35 pm, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi" <kdomp...@Howard.edu> wrote:
> Thank you, Cornelius Hamelberg, for this question.
> LIBYA is a member of the African Union. Libya unlike Egypt has a history of supporting the DECOLONIZATION of the continent. She is the most important contributor to OAU Libration Fund. Colonel al-Gaddafi, unlike other North African heads of states, has also invested heavily in Africa. He also was not a sell out. To be fair to our brothers and sisters in Libya, the history does not justify the bloodsheds going on. The events taking place in North Africa, the information technology that has democratized the information space and the activities of the Wiki Leak are leading to a major global restructuring in terms of power, control and governance, the ending structure and form is unknown to us. What we do know is that global institutional transformation is taking place and is a continual process. What do you think?
> PEACE
> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:48 AM
> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>
> The Arab League has taken their stance and it is not as if the African nations care less about the fate of Libya and Libyans.
>
> An important question for us in this forum, and indeed for the rest of Africa and diaspora, is why the gaping silence from the Africa Union, about the lastest antics of the man who has played such a pivotal role in African Union matters, not least of all in his largesse in providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also not least of all his well known ambition to become the first president of the United States of Africa?
>
> --
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Jaye Gaskia
From: "mbay...@msu.edu" <mbay...@msu.edu>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 12:14:35 AM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
Dompere, Kofi Kissi
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:15 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
kenneth harrow
why is this the case? to stay in power, you have to have people in the govt and army on your side. there is mostly one way that happens, and it has to do with control of resources. sound familiar, mr mugabe, kenyatta, etc etc. this means that these autocracies are really oligarchies, usually grounded in military forces.
those left out of the equation have kids who grow up in relative poverty and with relatively unproductive educations. sound familiar? it is the story of every single north african country, and as education is extended in other african states, the model is replicated, with some exceptions.
ken
Cornelius Hamelberg
Methinks that thou dost praise el Colonel al-Gaddafi excessively, and
at the wrong time. You are sending him the wrong message. I'm sure
that Madiba Nelson Mandela is very critical of what Gaddafi is doing
right now.
Futhermore:
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/25/no-to-murder-yes-to-the-peoples-human-rights-in-libya/
On Feb 25, 12:07 am, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi" <kdomp...@Howard.edu>
wrote:
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> -- kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
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Dompere, Kofi Kissi
Dear Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum
As the winds blow to the shores of AFRICA, the carry some stubborn facts that bring into focus some important questions
To reflect on.
1. Why did USA and the Obama administration delivered a veto for condemnation of Israel abuses of Palestine?
2. Why did USA and Bush administration with the complete support of the NATO and Unite Kingdom invaded Iraq and how many
people were killed?
3. Why did the so called democratic nations of the Imperial West stayed mute on the Mubarak atrocities and how many
people of Egypt were killed?
4. How democratic is the United Nations in its decision-making process?
5. Are the nations and governments talking about sanctions, no-fly zones, Blockades are they not the same imperial
countries
6. How much oil does Egypt have and how much oil does Libya have?
7. How many neo-colonial puppets are in the North Africa and other parts of Africa?
8. Do you know any African leader that has supported African Unity and liked by the imperial predators.
9. Are the world conflicts not about resource and commodity movements?
What is my point? One may dwell in the comfort zone of simplicity and refuse to acknowledge complexities in social events.
I will appreciate answers to these questions and thank you
KOFI
Futhermore:
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> -- kenneth w. harrow
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> ph. 517 803 8839
> har...@msu.edu<mailto:har...@msu.edu>
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kenneth harrow
your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are themselves
questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary leader can become
an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the question of how the one who
takes these questions seriously can aspire to complexity in political
discourse.
it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a nostalgic,
and ultimately anti-progressive stance, anti-progressive set of questions.
i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese literature, one
of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you know his history, his
life story? it is interesting: the vet, the student, the administrator,
the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration. many tales, with
supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans with babies who refused
to learn from her, and paid the price.
that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could be a
discussion.
but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room. the
elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question had time to
end with its question mark.
kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that instead of
a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what was maman caiman
about.
i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman caiman,
about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the babies became a
balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince of trarza.
ken
Edward Mensah
Sorry my message was truncated. All along I thought the North African Arabs are Africans. Now when I hear statements like they are not allowing the African refugees cross their borders I get a bit confused. Are North African Arabs really Africans?
Kwaku Mensah
Chicago
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld
Cornelius Hamelberg
population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs. It's a
question of choice, how they would like to identify themselves.
The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an
African has to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre Brink
or Alan Paton or Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil,
Mexico, Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other places,
who are no less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born or bred in
these countries.
I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and
Negroid features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An
Englishman who was either joking or thought that he was putting me
down said he thought that I was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest
half Scottish Brother Michael was mistaken for an Imam from Morocco,
in London.
I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and there
is not a single racist incident for me to report. On the contrary I
feel that I have always been given some preferential treatment ( and
valuable presents which I have sometimes refused.
We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who
started one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet
Moses was born and bred in Egypt, it would not be politically
incorrect to identify him as African. The point is of course
debatable.
Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning white,
and coming from Europe.
Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something that
a lot of people get emotional about. That being the case I should like
to once more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu alaihi wa
salaam's last khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white
has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a
brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one
brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to
a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not,
therefore, do injustice to yourselves. “
So there, we have it.
Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
false, that “Arabs killing Black Africans” you would think that we
are on the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North
Africa (I'm sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would
be one of the first in North Africa to want to make peace and so
would the rest of the African Union.
The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries
from places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
fighting for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against
Colonel Gaddafi especially if armed could be easily mistaken for
Gaddafi mercenaries. And black Libyans are likewise in the same danger
zone of suspicion – identified by colour.
In other words black people are liable to be caught in the dangerous
cross fire.
The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves
invisible for the time being.
The Long time solution, could take a little more time of
consciousness raising.
Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all
circumstances in both peacetime and during times of war....
Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stockholmo-a-few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>
> read more »
Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams
You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par excellence
described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of consciousness (read
identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not unusual in a
cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to return to essentialism,
the fountain of exclusiveness.
zack
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stockholmo-a
-few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
Cornelius Hamelberg
“When Professor Albert Einstein published his sensational Theory of
Relativity, everyone spoke of the genius who had shaken the entire
world of science. At the time Einstein said, “ Should my theory be
proved valid, then Germany and France will fight over me. Germany will
say that I'm German and France will say that I'm a world citizen.
Should the theory not be proven true, Germany and France will still
fight over me. France will say that I'm a German and Germany will say
that I'm a Jew.”
Cornelius, will of course defer to the sociology professor's
succinctness and would like to prod his knowledge reserves for yet a
further thought provoking opinion
The truth is, I am not happy with Nasser being described as “the Pan
Africanist par excellence” just because he thought that Egyptian
civilisation was African ( even pre-Arab?) or because he supported
anti-colonial struggles. But he does deserve the title for his merely
thinking " Egyptian, Arab, African".
Otherwise ,
Nasser as the Pan-Arab Nationalist par excellence, yes, even a great
anti-Semite or an anti-Semite par excellence, without a doubt, but not
“the Pan-Africanist par excellence “ - and I do not believe that
racism has a place in Pan-Africanism. (smile)
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasserism
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasser+as+pan+africanist
Still thinking about Muammer al-Gaddafi and the idea of a United
States of Africa
Ok Nasser who was a secularist, identifies himself and is a
spokesperson for those who identify themselves as simultaneously
Egyptian, Arab, and African, but I'm afraid that you have left out a
most essential component of Arab identity - for most Arabs Islam and
Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria. Given that scale of
values with Islam at the top, a Muslim Arab would say that he is
Muslim and Arab or Arab and Muslim – and most certainly accept Hamza
Yusuf, his fellow Muslim from California as his brother.
An Egyptian Arab Christian is not less nationalistic than an Egyptian
Arab Christian....
Since Nasser did not attach so much importance to religion in his
rather secular ideology of Nasserism, he is at variance with the
ethos which provides the dynamo and impetus of the Muslim
Brotherhood, Hamas and their Charter/ covenant, al-Qaeda, the Kalifa
group, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and all the other Islamic groups who
want to resurrect the UMMAH and to expand it to incorporate the rest
of the world that has not yet been converted to Islam, and is
presently outside of the pale/ jurisdiction of Islam.
So I have never for one moment thought that Gaddafi's goal has been
merely the United States of Africa. Perhaps just that could be
achievable within his life time, and looking beyond the Suez canal he
must have dreamt of a landmass he could call the United States of
Africa and Arabia, sometime....
A classic : http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=The+Arab+Mind
On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
>
> read more »
Cornelius Hamelberg
North Africa
>
> read more »
kenneth harrow
to think of themselves as african, even though they are. when i gave
lectures in tunisia a few years ago i asked folks there at the
conference if they thought of themselves as maghrebian, the term i was
taught to use. they said no, no one used it. what about african i said;
they laughed at me. then what, i said? they answered, arab.
i would love to hear from north africans on the list who could enlighten
us as to how they, people they know, self-identify.
i would guess berbers would say berber, touaregs would say touareg,
arabs arab, etc, along with their national identity.
ken
>> �All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. �
>>
>> So there, we have it.
>>
>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>> false, that �Arabs killing Black Africans� you would think that we are on
>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>> Union.
>>
>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion � identified
>> read more �
Ibrahim Abdullah
Still talking about TRIBES in 2011? Ever bother to ask yourself why
there are so-called nation in the first world and so-called tribes in
the so-called Third World?
What makes the Yoruba nation more than 30 million people a tribe and
the welsh/flemish/wallon all under three million a nation? What makes
the Hausa nation of more than 40 million a tribe and Luxembourg a tiny
local government a nation?
The explanation?: RACISM!!!
=========================
Abdul Bemath
African Affairs, vol. 63, no. 251, April 1964, pp. 129-141
Abdul S. Bemath
Johannesburg, South Africa.
Compiler: The Mazruiana Collection Revisited: Ali A. Mazrui debating the
African Condition. An annotated and select thematic bibliography, 1962-2003.
New Delhi: New Dawn Press and Pretoria: Africa Institute of South Africa,
2005
Entry no. 420. The bibliography has 650 entries.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cornelius Hamelberg" <>
To: "USA Africa Dialogue Series" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union
about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
Thinking of this joke:
�When Professor Albert Einstein published his sensational Theory of
Relativity, everyone spoke of the genius who had shaken the entire
world of science. At the time Einstein said, � Should my theory be
proved valid, then Germany and France will fight over me. Germany will
say that I'm German and France will say that I'm a world citizen.
Should the theory not be proven true, Germany and France will still
fight over me. France will say that I'm a German and Germany will say
that I'm a Jew.�
Cornelius, will of course defer to the sociology professor's
succinctness and would like to prod his knowledge reserves for yet a
further thought provoking opinion
The truth is, I am not happy with Nasser being described as �the Pan
Africanist par excellence� just because he thought that Egyptian
civilisation was African ( even pre-Arab?) or because he supported
anti-colonial struggles. But he does deserve the title for his merely
thinking " Egyptian, Arab, African".
Otherwise ,
Nasser as the Pan-Arab Nationalist par excellence, yes, even a great
anti-Semite or an anti-Semite par excellence, without a doubt, but not
�the Pan-Africanist par excellence � - and I do not believe that
racism has a place in Pan-Africanism. (smile)
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasserism
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasser+as+pan+africanist
Still thinking about Muammer al-Gaddafi and the idea of a United
States of Africa
Ok Nasser who was a secularist, identifies himself and is a
spokesperson for those who identify themselves as simultaneously
Egyptian, Arab, and African, but I'm afraid that you have left out a
most essential component of Arab identity - for most Arabs Islam and
Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria. Given that scale of
values with Islam at the top, a Muslim Arab would say that he is
Muslim and Arab or Arab and Muslim � and most certainly accept Hamza
A classic : http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=The+Arab+Mind
> �All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing
> shall
> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
> �
>
> So there, we have it.
>
> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
> false, that �Arabs killing Black Africans� you would think that we are on
> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa
> (I'm
> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the
> first
> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
> Union.
>
> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
> fighting
> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion �
> read more �
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria.'
'....And Islam is also an identity marker for about 50% of
the African population." So....?
GE
Thinking of this joke:
Otherwise ,
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasserism
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasser+as+pan+africanist
Muslim and Arab or Arab and Muslim - and most certainly accept Hamza
A classic : http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=The+Arab+Mind
> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion - identified
--
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Algeria,Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, and look up and down the hierarchy,
in each case.
I have met several Egyptians who claimed that they were African
and also Arab. Remember that the word 'arab' refers to ethnic
identity some of the time, but may also refer to a religous and cultural
identity.
When interviewing people, you have to figure out whether they are
referring to their ethnic identity, national identity or cultural-religious
identity, and whether they know the difference. Remember also that
the word arab is also a unifier. When the ethnic arabs invaded
Egypt, Libya, Tunisia etc, after the 7th century, they met other ethnic
groups living there. The term 'arab' has been strategically
useful for ruling elites seeking to forge new nations on the backs
of old civilizations which were fundamentally pre-arab in the
ethnic sense.
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
________________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [har...@msu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:31 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
ken
>> “All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. “
>>
>> So there, we have it.
>>
>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>> false, that “Arabs killing Black Africans” you would think that we are on
>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>> Union.
>>
>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion – identified
>> read more »
--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
har...@msu.edu
--
kenneth harrow
but it is bizarre how we all learn and teach maghrebian literature, and
the maghrebians don't use the term, at least those in tunisia.
i think when i put the question, i simply said something like, what do
you call yourselves. i wasn't being very specific. also, i learned the
term almost 40 years ago when it was being used mostly for algerian lit,
with some of tunisians and moroccans.
i am sure there are many north africans who accept the designation
african, but it marks political divisions, i should think, to accept it
or not.
is that your experience
ken
>>> �All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. �
>>>
>>> So there, we have it.
>>>
>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>>> false, that �Arabs killing Black Africans� you would think that we are on
>>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>>> Union.
>>>
>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion � identified
>>> read more �
Ayo Obe
Ayo
Cornelius Hamelberg
Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria.”
“....And Islam is also an identity marker for about 50% of
the African population." So....?
Dear Professor Gloria Emeagwali in excelsis,
What follows is what for me are some of the implications from your
question. Sorry about the links. I crave your indulgence just this
once. I assure you that I am not being dead serious. The links are
only meant as information-sharing relevant to the cause, not a paucity
of my own knowing or thinking or powers of expression. Or meant to get
in the way. If I had the time and inclination I'd footnote some of
what I say, in another way.....
A question that sometimes bothers me is, do the Arabs then think that
they are White ? Or, what colour?
I'm not “just kidding.”.At this point in time, I don't even know if
Morocco which does not want to be part of the African Union is
still serious about their ambition to join the EU.
This could have some implications for the whole idea of Eurabia:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Eurabia
Last night I was at a little dinner party and a half famous journalist
who I had not met before and who has been reporting from Africa,
rushed at me to ask me “Where do you come from?”
I almost told him, “ From your mother's - --ä”
These people!!! Not, “Hi Mr X, I'm so and so , nice weather, nice to
meet you, what's your name ?“, but live and direct, first question
“Where are you from?” Hej, I know a nigger from Uganda.
By which some a them mean, You know one nigger you know them all.
Where do you come from? My only regret is that I didn't tell him “
Planet of the monkeys”.
But that would have ruined the party....We shall overcome. The White
man knows, we're coming
Back to your question:
So, by the time the remaining 50% of the African population has been
Islam-ized, the rest of Africa will join the Arab League. QED.
But even if 100% of Africa converted to al-Islam, I don't know about
my good friends the Igbos, but one thing that I'm sure of is that not
every Hon. Yoruba Man will join the Arab League.
Today, apart from the nations that constitute the Arab League, the
following African countries belong to the OIC (Organisation of Islamic
Conference ):
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
Comoros
Côte d'Ivoire
Djibouti
Gabon
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Mali
Mauritania
Mozambique
Niger
Nigeria
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Organisation+of+Islamic+Conference
Interesting to compare the OIC countries with the Africa Union
countries.
http://www.google.com/search?q=African+Union+Countries
As I've already told you, even if my old hero Sheikh Osman Dan Fodio
and all of his descendants and 100% of Africa & Africans converted to
al-Islam, I don't know about my good friends the Igbos, but I'm sure
that not every Hon. Yoruba Man would join the Arab League.
Question for you: Why do you think that in his last sermon to his
Muslim followers, the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam,
thought it necessary to say ,
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a
brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one
brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to
a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not,
therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
will answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of
righteousness after I am gone.“
He had to draw particular attention to these aspects of life lived by
Muslims in the prevailing conditions of his own life time because,
obviously there must have been certain racist/ racial currents of
feeling among some of his disciples who may have considered themselves
White and superior to those they considered Black and inferior – and
Vice-versa.
We cannot divorce ourselves from the history of racism – and of modern
world slavery of which Professor Toyin Falola has written so much –
and I'm still reading him. We cannot dis-count the history of the
USA, and we certainly cannot overlook or neglect to look at the past
1,500 years history of Islam and of pre-Islamic Arab slavery which is
even mentioned in the Bible : Genesis 37, 23-28 which records Joseph
being sold to Ishmaelites (Arabs):
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Genesis37.html
In his, “The Destruction of Black Civilization” Chancellor Williams
claims that the Black man arrived in the Hijaz in the same way that
he arrived in North America in large numbers: Through slavery. The
history of Islam's first Muezzin, Bilal ibn Rabah al-Habashi– with
whom many African converts to Islam tend to identify, is a well
documented history - I've read his autobiography. Even after being
freed from slavery he continues to refer to himself in terms of utter,
abject humility.
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Bilal+(+Islam's+first+Muezzin
Africa: Arabs, slavery and Islam:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Africa%3A+Arabs%2C+slavery+and+Islam
The slave revolt in Basra ( Southern Iraq) is well documented and
I've met some of their dark-skinned descendants who are today fervent
adherents of Shia Islam and we've talked about it.
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Slave+Revolt+in+Basra
There are even a few famous paintings depicting White women from
places like Turkey being auctioned in the slave market in Cairo where
they fetched a good price, as as late as the end of the 19th
century.....:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=White+women+sold+in+slave+market+in+Cairo
The institution of slavery in North America and the Caribbean did not
only create a sense of colour hierarchy in those parts of the world.
(“"If you're white, you're right. If you're brown, stick around. If
you're black, get way back". ) This also happened in the early
heartland of Islam and North Africa. In more recent times the
controversy as to whether the Prophet of Islam was black, has
persisted. It once got to the point a few centuries ago, when a n
Islamic ruler issued an edict: “Anyone who says that Muhammed is
Black, is killed” - Not “will be killed”, but “is killed” - that's
instantaneity for you. What is at stake is not only the possibility of
historical truth being distorted but also for the racists, the
ultimate insult would be be that it was thought that he was Black....:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Anyone+who+says+that+Muhammad+is+black+is+killed
Black as a metaphor in the Qur'an tells a story. Consider the day of
Judgement:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Quran+:on+that+day+their+faces+will+be+black
For me the question of which colour was the prophet of Islam ,
salallahu alaihi wa salaam is easily answered. Under the hot Arabian
sun at Khum e-Ghadir, there are several reports :
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Could+see+the+white+under+the+prophet's+armpits
I should just like to add that in my personal experience of Arabs (men
and women) I have never encountered racism. When I say Arabs, I mean
Arabs, not Iranians or Turks or Pakistanis.
I am aware that Arabs are very happy and proud about the fact that the
Prophet of Islam was Arab. And that the Qur'an was revealed in the
Arabic tongue.
We cannot deny this, and that pride and assurance about the language
of the Qu'ran, is not the equivalent of racism.
I was once in the company of an Egyptian Lady in Alexandria, I had
dinner with her and her family during most of the month of Ramadan,
anyway there we were, walking towards the post office when we alighted
on a group of Dinka people ( from Southern Sudan) who had been
granted asylum in Egypt ( as I found out a few seconds later).I went
over to talk to them, and she asked me why I had done so. Not to talk
to strangers/ people I don't know? I told her that I went over to talk
to them because they are Black. She did not say anything after that.
The only quarrel that I've had with an Arab and it almost got nasty,
was when I corrected my Egyptian friend who was speaking of the future
without prefacing it with “ Insha Allah” and he turned to me with some
anger and said, “ So, you want to teach me Arabic?”
Other discussions from time to time, with even members of Hamas and
Hezbollah, about Israel & the Arabs, the Shia etc., have been
conducted within logical limits and without any trace of race-ism...
Respect begets respect.
On Mar 3, 9:58 pm, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)"
>
> read more »
Cornelius Hamelberg
has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a
brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one
brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to
a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not,
therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>
> read more »
kenneth harrow
ethnicity. it is a social science distinction which i don't yet grasp.
can anyone help out? they aren't being used indistinguishably any more,
and i don't understand the difference intended.
ken
>>>> �All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>>>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>>>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>>>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>>>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing
>>>> shall
>>>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>>>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> So there, we have it.
>>>>
>>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>>>> false, that �Arabs killing Black Africans� you would think that we are on
>>>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa
>>>> (I'm
>>>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the
>>>> first
>>>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>>>> Union.
>>>>
>>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>>>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>>>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
>>>> fighting
>>>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>>>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>>>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion �
>>>> read more �
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa
>>> Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
>>> For current archives, visit
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>>> For previous archives, visit
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>>> To post to this group, send an email to
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>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
>> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
>> unsub...@googlegroups.com
--
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
A little rambling helps in that regard.
Now the OIC is a regional organization not an
ethnic one and even the term 'Arab' is used opportunistically
to refer to ethnicity, cultural affiliation and/ or religious affiliation.
So joining the 'Arab League is really not such a big deal.
'Do the arabs think they are white?'
That depends. Some probably do although ethnic Arabs seem
to be pigmentationally diverse- and, let us not mix up the Arabs
and the Turks who colonized them, and against whom some
fought in nationalist movements - in defiance of British collusion with
Turkish elites.
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white
has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
white except by piety and good action. ....."
This can be also interpreted as a remarkable breakthrough in
race relations - in the 7th century. Interesting to note that
the Nigerian Maitatsine, Muslim, activists of the 1980s
considered that ' Mohammed was only an Arab.'
Speaking about slavery, Christians and Muslims were deeply
implicated in enslavement at various levels, and in diverse
circumstances, so it is difficult to target one group or the other.
“Anyone who says that Muhammed is
Black, is killed”
Let's put it this way. Should President Obama put a painting of a
Black Christ on his wall right now, he may not be around for
campaign 2012. But then again the Igbos you speak of would
not place a Black Christ either. Heck, the only people who dared to do it
thus far are the Ethiopians. (I saw numerous portrayals of a
Black Christ in the churches of Lalibela as indicated in
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali<http://www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali>)
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
________________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:55 AM
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Eurabia
Back to your question:
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
Comoros
Côte d'Ivoire
Djibouti
Gabon
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Mali
Mauritania
Mozambique
Niger
Nigeria
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Organisation+of+Islamic+Conference
http://www.google.com/search?q=African+Union+Countries
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Genesis37.html
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Bilal+(+Islam's+first+Muezzin
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Africa%3A+Arabs%2C+slavery+and+Islam
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Slave+Revolt+in+Basra
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=White+women+sold+in+slave+market+in+Cairo
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Anyone+who+says+that+Muhammad+is+black+is+killed
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Quran+:on+that+day+their+faces+will+be+black
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Could+see+the+white+under+the+prophet's+armpits
--
Anunoby, Ogugua
Northern Sudanese for example claim to be Arab. The Syrian Arab is not sure that they are. The common thread that runs through Northern Sudanese and Syrians is a shared Arabic language. It is not the Islamic religion. Some Northern Sudanese are Christian as are some Syrians. They do not therefore share a common religion but share a common language.
I remember that my one-time Palestinian friend and room-mate, told me that the Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, and Moroccans are not Arabs in the ethnic connotation. He said that they speak languages that at best, are bastardized and unintelligible forms of the Arabic language. My understanding them was that he was making a snobbery point. He also told me that the purest Arabs (as an ethnic group) are to be found in Yemen where he added that the purest Arabic (not the Arabic of Islam) is spoken. He also said that Northern Sudanese are not Arabs by culture only.
There are communities that are called Shuwa Arab in Nigeria and Chad. Some Fulanis in Nigeria claim to be Arab. They claim that they migrated to West Africa from Arabia. Are these people Arabs in the ethnic sense? It is doubtful that they are.
oa
Turkish elites.
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali<http://www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali>)
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Eurabia
Back to your question:
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
Comoros
Côte d'Ivoire
Djibouti
Gabon
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Mali
Mauritania
Mozambique
Niger
Nigeria
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Organisation+of+Islamic+Conference
http://www.google.com/search?q=African+Union+Countries
White and superior to those they considered Black and inferior - and
Vice-versa.
We cannot divorce ourselves from the history of racism - and of modern
world slavery of which Professor Toyin Falola has written so much -
and I'm still reading him. We cannot dis-count the history of the
USA, and we certainly cannot overlook or neglect to look at the past
1,500 years history of Islam and of pre-Islamic Arab slavery which is
even mentioned in the Bible : Genesis 37, 23-28 which records Joseph
being sold to Ishmaelites (Arabs):
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Genesis37.html
In his, "The Destruction of Black Civilization" Chancellor Williams
claims that the Black man arrived in the Hijaz in the same way that
he arrived in North America in large numbers: Through slavery. The
history of Islam's first Muezzin, Bilal ibn Rabah al-Habashi- with
Cornelius Hamelberg
“pigmentationally diverse” ( Dr. Gloria) … “Pigmentational
diversity”?... sounds like a very descriptive sociological term that
should pass into the mainstream...
Re - Rhat 7th century “remarkable breakthrough in race relations” and
the risk that Brother Obama would be taking about being re-elected, by
nailing a Black Madonna or a Monica on the wall of the Oval office
right now, in this 21st Century....
It's the same kind of risk that the most senior Cardinal Francis
Arinze or Cardinal Dominic Ekandem or Cardinal Anthony Olubunmi
Okogie might be taking by having a Black Christ on display on their
walls, as personal saviour. Then no matter how sincerely those three
gentlemen would sing “ Gloria in excelsis Deo” they might also have
diminished chances with the Papal Conclave, of ever being elected
winner of the Papal Crown, if they did that .
Their painting Jesus Christ Black would be the equivalent of Brother
Obama painting the White House Black....
“Now the OIC is a regional organization not an
to refer to ethnicity, cultural affiliation and/ or religious
affiliation.
Gloria Emeagwali)
And now I've heard everything.
Not such a big deal?
The Arab League has its aims and interests. It is also a political
organization which could wield even greater power, if you and I and
Ogugua Anunoby under Northern Fulani leadership joined it....
Hopefully, you might after all like this song:
http://www.google.se/search?q=Bert+Jansch+%3A+ramblings+going+to+be+the+death+of+me
On Mar 4, 4:32 pm, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)"
> The slave revolt in Basra ( Southern Iraq) is well documented and
> I've met some of their dark-skinned descendants who are today fervent
> adherents of Shia Islam and we've talked about it.
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Slave+Revolt+in+Basra
>
> There are even a few famous paintings depicting White women from
> places like Turkey being auctioned in the slave market in Cairo where
> they fetched a good price, as as late as the end of the 19th
> century.....:
>
> The institution of slavery in North America and the Caribbean did not
> only create a sense of colour hierarchy in those parts of the world.
> (“"If you're white, you're right. If you're brown, stick around. If
> you're black, get way back". ) This also happened in the early
> heartland of Islam and North Africa. In more recent times the
> controversy as to whether the Prophet of Islam was black, has
> persisted. It once got to the point a few centuries ago, when a n
> Islamic ruler issued an edict: “Anyone who says that Muhammed is
> Black, is killed” - Not “will be killed”, but “is killed” - that's
> instantaneity for you. What is at stake is not only the possibility of
> historical truth being distorted but also for the racists, the
> ultimate insult would be be that it was thought that he was Black....:
>
> Black as a metaphor in the Qur'an tells a story. Consider the day of
> Judgement:
>
> For me the question of which colour was the prophet of Islam ,
> salallahu alaihi wa salaam is easily answered. Under the hot Arabian
> sun at Khum e-Ghadir, there are several reports :
>
> I should just like to add that in my personal experience of Arabs (men
> and women) I have never encountered racism. When I say Arabs, I mean
> Arabs, not Iranians or Turks or Pakistanis.
>
> I am aware that Arabs are very happy and proud about the fact that the
>
> read more »
kenneth harrow
what is a race?
and what do you make of appiah's rejection of it as a scientific category?
ken
> I almost told him, " From your mother's - --�"
>
> These people!!! Not, "Hi Mr X, I'm so and so , nice weather, nice to
> meet you, what's your name ?", but live and direct, first question
> "Where are you from?" Hej, I know a nigger from Uganda.
>
> By which some a them mean, You know one nigger you know them all.
>
> Where do you come from? My only regret is that I didn't tell him "
> Planet of the monkeys".
>
> But that would have ruined the party....We shall overcome. The White
> man knows, we're coming
>
> Back to your question:
>
> So, by the time the remaining 50% of the African population has been
> Islam-ized, the rest of Africa will join the Arab League. QED.
>
> But even if 100% of Africa converted to al-Islam, I don't know about
> my good friends the Igbos, but one thing that I'm sure of is that not
> every Hon. Yoruba Man will join the Arab League.
>
> Today, apart from the nations that constitute the Arab League, the
> following African countries belong to the OIC (Organisation of Islamic
> Conference ):
>
> Benin
>
> Burkina Faso
>
> Cameroon
>
> Chad
>
> Comoros
>
> C�te d'Ivoire
>
> Djibouti
>
> Gabon
>
> Gambia
>
> Guinea
>
> Guinea-Bissau
>
> Mali
>
> Mauritania
>
> Mozambique
>
> Niger
>
> Nigeria
>
> Senegal
>
> Sierra Leone
>
> Somalia
>
> Sudan
>
> Togo
>
> Uganda
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Organisation+of+Islamic+Conference
>
> Interesting to compare the OIC countries with the Africa Union
> countries.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=African+Union+Countries
>
> As I've already told you, even if my old hero Sheikh Osman Dan Fodio
> and all of his descendants and 100% of Africa& Africans converted to
> Hezbollah, about Israel& the Arabs, the Shia etc., have been
--
Dompere, Kofi Kissi
Thank all the people that have and continue to reflect on the questions that I raised with Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum. The conversation has been pushed away from the course. Nonetheless, it is useful since the tribe, race and religious questions are central to the problem of search for Africa's collaborative efforts to build a power base in the global system to defend AFRICA and her HUMAN and NON-RESOURCES.
The crust of the questions involved the unjust international present structure to which I personally hope the members of this forum will address in relation to events on the continent of AFRICA through the questions. We cannot argue to support the pre-established Western imperial interests where right is in the barrels of the BIG GUNS. This regime of international power relations is the global problem which is indirectly or directly involved in the intensification of the global resource war where those weak nations that have resources due to the nature of geomorphological and demographical evolutions in the global political economy and seek to protect their resources are victims of UNJUST application of rules of behavior established, manipulated and implemented by the same nations that brought colonialism, slavery and AFRICA'S OPPRESSION. One thing is true, that the United Nations is the most undemocratic institutions in the world system of institutions. If democracy is good for mankind, let us work to democratize the United Nation's institution. PEACE will never find anchorage in an UNJUST socio-political ORDER where some nations think that their interests override the interest of other nations by divine creation and that primitively other nations have no interest and if they do, the interests must be subservient to those of the WEST. Every nation whose interest goes counter to the "Western interests" is called enemy of the West even if the leaders of that nation are producing increasing GROSS NATIONAL HAPPINESS" for their people and hence, they must face the WESTERN propaganda for EVIL. Every nation whose interest is subordinated to the Western imperial aspirations is called a friend of the West even if the leaders are subjugating their people to torture and disappearances. Democracy has acquired the characteristics of the Western nation claiming the divine right to civilize the primitive African under the project of the Whiteman's Burden as a strategy of stealing resources. The WEST must leave ARICA alone rather than setting fire here and there where the AFRICANS are manipulated to decapitate each others heads through the pulling of diabolical strings. PEACE HAS NO ANCHORAGE IN AN UNJUST WORLD. Keep your eyes on the Libyan OIL and compare it with Iraq. To be continue.
THANKS.
KOFI KISSI DOMPERE.
>>>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over
>>>> a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a
>>>> white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any
>>>> superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that
>>>> every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims
>>>> constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim
>>>> which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and
>>>> willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> So there, we have it.
>>>>
>>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true
>>>> or false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that
>>>> we are on the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and
>>>> North Africa (I'm sure that if such a war erupted Muammer
>>>> al-Gaddafi would be one of the first in North Africa to want to
>>>> make peace and so would the rest of the African Union.
>>>>
>>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we
>>>> are informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired
>>>> mercenaries from places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
>>>> fighting for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against
>>>> Colonel Gaddafi especially if armed could be easily mistaken for
>>>> Gaddafi mercenaries. And black Libyans are likewise in the same
>>>> danger zone of suspicion - identified by colour.
kenneth harrow
kofi, i can agree with all your sentiments concerning the west, but it
is out-of-date, it is yesterday. we are beyond that old imperial order,
and that beyond began in the 1980s with the world bank's new order.
power shifts, along with wealth, and i would associate much of your
complaints about abusive power and exploitation with china now, if not
with other asian states like malaysia whose interference in africa
increases the violence many times over. your old binary needs revision,
but that means readjusting the frame for world power, a difficult thing
to do once one has learned the older versions.
indeed "western propaganda is evil." i agree
and tianamen square, tibet? chopped liver?
and censoring the internet so the chinese don't even see what is
happening in the arab world, for fear that sentiments of freedom might
be catching?
i agree with you; but let's not shut our eyes to those we once
supported. mugabe and ghaddafi ain't what they used to be. mao is gone.
things change
ken
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Not only is it a regional organization, it is a helpless one.
Would you say that OBL is of the same pigmentation as
King Abdulla of Saudi Arabia....or that the Khoisan are of the same
pigmentation as Cheikh Anta Diop?
Glad to know that Cardinal Arinze places a Black Christ on his desk. He has some
work to do with his constitutency.
But really, who knows what happens behind the screen in the Vatican?
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
________________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:40 PM
(Keeping it short) :
--
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
'Every nation whose interest is subordinated to the Western imperial aspirations
is called a friend of the West even if the leaders are subjugating
This point is considerably relevant.
You may recall that a few weeks ago
Joe Biden denied that Mubarak was a dictator and Hillary Clinton
saw Mubarak as a positive force of 'stability.' As of 2003
Gadaffi became a nice guy to the West , and Ben Ali.s
willingness to trade secrets about Qaida made him a respectable
member of the new club. Beshir of the Sudan could sell his
gum arabic to Coca Cola and get certain privileges despite
his genocidal campaign in Darfur in exchange for some secrets.
The monarchical despots of Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Bahrain
got a free pass, not to mention Kuwait etc
I agree that China is no innocent babe. It took some doing to get
the Chinese to modify their policy with respect to the Sudan
after turning a blind eye to the genocide in Darfur.
Domestically they are also repressive. Agreed.
But although Mao is gone, 'maoism' lives, even though not in China.
Apparently one third of India, in the northeast and central parts
of the country is now within the sphere of influence of the
maoists (naxalites) who claim that they will take over India by 2050.
Time will tell.
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
________________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [har...@msu.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:08 PM
Chambi Chachage
"The Borderlands is that area of Africa running from Mauritania on the Atlantic Ocean, eastwards through the Sahel, to Sudan on the Red Sea" - Bankie Forster Bankie
"A leading issue which needs attention is the relationship between Pan- Africanism and Pan-Arabism. Africans and Arabs need to define more
clearly the separations, interpenetrations and intersections between these two movements. Without a solution to this there is likely in the future to be tension in the Afro-Arab borderlands, as we currently see in the Sudan and Mauritania" - Kwesi Kwaa Prah
"The issues the Borderlands raise date back thousands of years and it is suggested that the area provides a sharper, historically based, holistic definition of the African nationality than that hitherto offered by the black consciousness movements in the Americas and Southern Africa. In the Sudan, as in the Borderlands in general, exists a minority group of Arabised black people who do not consider themselves Africans and who participate in the oppression and enslavement of the majority African population. Clearly what is at stake is not a matter of colour, but a question of culture. A fact which was confirmed by the author on a visit to Khartoum in December 2002. The Borderlands teach us that the African nationality
is primarily cultural, not race based" - Bankie Forster Bankie
"Let us also not forget that the crises and chronic human rights abuses of black Africans by Arabs are the root of the conflict in the Borderlands. The war in Sudan, the conflicts in Mauritania and the hot spots in many parts of the Borderlands stem from the insistence by Arab Muslims of spreading their hegemony southwards" - Mandela Kapere
"In the Sudan, as in the Borderlands in general, Africans have had to contend with Arab expansionism. In these circumstances they had to choose whether to Arabise and Islamise or to take the option of African nationalism" - Bankie Forster Bankie
"One of the programmes that all the Arab Muslim countries have been pursuing aggressively in Africa is that of Islamization and Arabization of
the African people. I quote from the speech of Colonel Qadhafi delivered to the Muslim centre in Kigali, Rwanda, on 17 May 1985 and aired live on Radio Rwanda (Yoh, 2001):
First you must stick to your Islamic religion and insist that your children are taught the Islamic religion and you teach the Arabic language because without the Arabic language we could not understand Islam. Furthermore, you must encourage the children of Christians to embrace Islam and the doors of the Islamic centre, the Islamic school and hospital should be opened to the children of Christians. You must teach the children of Christians that Christianity is not the religion of Africans, that Islam is the religion of Africa, that Christianity is the religion of colonialism, that Islam is the religion of God. Christianity is the religion of the French, Belgian, German and American enemies. It is also a religion of Jews…. Muslims must become a force to defend their religion. You must raise your heads high in Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda and Zaire. You must raise your voice high and declare that Allah is great because Africa must be Muslim. Africa is no Christian. Christians are intruders in Africa. Christians in Africa are agents of colonialism. We must wage a holy war so that Islam may spread in Africa. Statements such as this from a head of state do more harm than good to Afro-Arab relations. Religion should be left to the individual and her/his god, rather than to be state managed and imposed on Africans. Islam like Christianity started in the Middle East. Both are therefore foreign to Africa and Africans, so the claim that Islam is the religion of Africa is insulting to the Africans. It is as if the Arabs through the Afrabians like the Qadhafis of this world have a duty to see that Africans are Islamised and Arabised. Yoh (2001) has recorded a long list of Arab organisations that work in Africa with the main objective of spreading Islam throughout the length and breadth of the continent" - S. J. Dima"The establishment of the Afro-Arab ‘dialogue’, if needs be, will require as its principal interlocutors, from the African side, the people of the Borderlands who have coexisted with the Arabs, not the coastal peoples of West Africa, nor the central, east and southern Africans, who have in general chosen to ignore the problems in the Borderlands. It is with the people of the Borderlands that the Arabs north of the Sahel, the Moroccans, Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians (whose government, less we forget, needs to resolve its differences with the Berbers in their midst) et al
that the dialogue may take place. Some Africans are saying that the issue of reparations for Arab-led slavery should not be addressed in this period, when the Middle East is being regime changed. Here again such tactical questions need to be answered by those living in the areas affected" - Bankie Forster Bankie
they develop? The Jellaba (Afrabians) are a social group which has developed in the Sudan since the 15th century from elements of foreign and local traders including slave traders, and who have established themselves in trading centres which later became important urban centres and towns such as Dueim, Omdurman and Sennar. The Jellaba are a hybrid of different races and nationalities from the indigenous Africans, and the immigrant Arabs, Turks, Greeks and Armenians, who have interacted and intermarried in the long historical process which took place mainly in Northern Sudan. The Jellaba are therefore part African and Sudanese, but they choose to identify themselves as Arabs although very many of them are blacker than myself. The Jellaba are thus the so-called Arabs of the Sudan....I once asked a leading Northern Sudanese politician, whether he considered himself as a Sudanese Arab or an Arab Sudanese, and he found the question puzzling! I have attempted to analyse the Sudanese situation objectively and dispassionately in order to correctly identify the problem of the Sudan, for unless a problem is correctly diagnosed, a correct answer is difficult to find. I have argued here and established that the problem of the Sudan is the hegemony by the minority Jellaba of Northern Sudan, and for lack of a better “ism” I shall call the Sudanese problem the problem of “Jellabaism”. How do we solve the problem of Jellabaism?"- John Garang de Mabior
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
This is a great collection of quotes. Thanks a lot for this.
I was not aware of the power of Garang's writings until I saw the
last quote. I shall actively seek more of his writings.
Shouldn't we add also to the 'Jellabaic' mix, the Circassians
and Albanians. Remember the Mamluks slave soldiers fled to Sudan to escape
the Turco-Egyptians and as far as I remember a lot of them
were of Albanian and Circassian (Russian ?) heritage.
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net<http://www.africahistory.net/>
www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali<http://www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali>
________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chambi Chachage [cham...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 8:30 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - The 'Revolutionary Libya' - An 'Afro-Arab Borderland'?
For the purpose of this debate <http://groups.google.com/group/usaafricadialogue/browse_thread/thread/d61dd2ceb9cca2c2> I suggest that we revisit the notion of 'Afro-Arab Borderlands'<http://www.bankie.info/> as espoused by Garang, Bankie, Prah et al. below:
Chambi Chachage
My mission is to acquire, produce and disseminate knowledge on and about humanity as well as divinity, especially as it relates to Africa, in a constructive and liberating manner to people wherever they may be.
-------
Address: P. O. Box 4460 Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania
-------
From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@mail.ccsu.edu>
To: "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 9:02:45 AM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - The 'Revolutionary Libya' - An 'Afro-Arab Borderland'?