The problem is, if I get my hands on a blood-sample of Akiba or MRE I
could clone them and then I would have hundred of MREs and hundred of
Akibas and I would let them clash together in epic battles just for
fun...
So blood samples might be out of discussion
Totti
On 2 October 2012 15:56, sean toczko <stoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Although, seriously, maybe a list of allergies (& medication) and blood type
> would be helpful in an emergency. Along with next of kin info.
> S
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Chris Shannon <cshan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> or program it on a rfid and insert it under your skin
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Torsten Wagner <torsten.wag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> To too Mikele about UV-light-tattoo ink ;)
>>> On 2 October 2012 12:26, Nava Whiteford <n...@sgenomics.org> wrote:
>>> > I've been thinking about shaving my head and having my ssh or gpg
>>> > private key
>>> > tattooed on my scalp.
>>> > Let the hair grow back, and no-one will know. But when a clone does
>>> > come along
>>> > and challenges you, you just shave your head and use your key to
>>> > decrypt a message
>>> > or whatever. Foolproof.
>>> > Only problem is I'm rapidly going bald. Hmmm..
>>> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 12:17:06PM +0900, Torsten Wagner wrote:
>>> >> We are close to human cloning.
>>> >> Thus, I would like to add my mother maiden name to the list. People
>>> >> could ask me the "secret" question to make sure its me and not an evil
>>> >> clone.
>>> >> Totti
>>> >> On 2 October 2012 11:04, MRE <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > It sounds like we are trending towards basic info (name, and at
>>> >> > least one email OR telephone number) and some form of emergency contact..
>>> >> > info to be secured.
>>> >> > Sound right?
>>> >> > --
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This discussion keeps popping up. The way I see it, some people seems to think that because most organization, even loose ones, collect way too much information about their members.
Given the crowd attending THS, and the answers to this survey, it is pretty obvious that most members (and potential members alike) are *not* in favor of giving information. But let me just say why I'm personally not for it.
1) Argument from EVIL. What if information is used for evil purpose ? By members, or someone unrelated in case the data is lost or stolen. But I'd consider that fairly unlikely. Who is seriously interested in the address of a bunch of nerds ? Besides, people who can really bother you using this information (immigration, police, etc) already have it.
2) Argument from LAZINESS. And this is the main argument : Handling this information will come a lot of overhead. Someone has to collect it. It needs to be stored. Someone needs to pay attention it doesn't get lost (or people get angry). Etc. Given the lack of motivation members (me included) have shown for these tasks, I'd say it's obviously hopeless.
Now let's review the reasons we would like to collect and keep this information and why it doesn't stand to examination.
1) Officialness and status of THS. Counter argument : just because everybody does it, doesn't mean we have to or should do the same.
2) Security when doing heavy lifting at THS. Counter argument : seriously not so many people do dangerous things at the space. People who don't feel comfortable should keep their own information on them (pocket, wallet, purse, etc) when doing things they consider dangerous (or at all time, since life is fairly dangerous by itself).
To sum up, the only information really necessary is an email (or phone number if no email, but rare these days). The email is necessary because it could potentially be used to remind members to stay members by paying the membership.
Phone numbers are usually informally collected because people like to call each other and also they are useful to organize meet-ups and such. I don't think it is necessary to collect them officially.
Well in that case I juggle with the numbers until it fits... 10 MRE
against 100 Akibas or so...
And beside of that we all know that all Asians master some fancy Kungfu
Karate whatever stuff. So not sure about the advantage...
Totti
On Oct 2, 2012 6:34 PM, "MRE" <epreme...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm.. advantage ME.
> 15 years of hand weapon combat experience. Bats, maces, axes, swords (of
> all types), daggers and battons.
> Now if its a dance-off, my ass is pwnd.
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I want to emphases
If THS really plans to get a status as a NGO, some of the stuff might be
required if people like it or not. Better to start now and do not risk
that half of the members leave when it becomes a requirement.
An application form is a one time thing with not much trouble on all
sides.
This form could include a minimum of mandatory fields and a set of optional
fields... Thus, it gives enough freedom to everyone to decide what one
wants to share.
Totti
On Oct 2, 2012 6:26 PM, "fakufaku" <fakuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This discussion keeps popping up. The way I see it, some people seems to
> think that because most organization, even loose ones, collect way too much
> information about their members.
> Given the crowd attending THS, and the answers to this survey, it is
> pretty obvious that most members (and potential members alike) are *not* in
> favor of giving information. But let me just say why I'm personally not for
> it.
> 1) Argument from EVIL. What if information is used for evil purpose ? By
> members, or someone unrelated in case the data is lost or stolen. But I'd
> consider that fairly unlikely. Who is seriously interested in the address
> of a bunch of nerds ? Besides, people who can really bother you using this
> information (immigration, police, etc) already have it.
> 2) Argument from LAZINESS. And this is the main argument : Handling this
> information will come a lot of overhead. Someone has to collect it. It
> needs to be stored. Someone needs to pay attention it doesn't get lost (or
> people get angry). Etc. Given the lack of motivation members (me included)
> have shown for these tasks, I'd say it's obviously hopeless.
> Now let's review the reasons we would like to collect and keep this
> information and why it doesn't stand to examination.
> 1) Officialness and status of THS. Counter argument : just because
> everybody does it, doesn't mean we have to or should do the same.
> 2) Security when doing heavy lifting at THS. Counter argument : seriously
> not so many people do dangerous things at the space. People who don't
> feel comfortable should keep their own information on them (pocket, wallet,
> purse, etc) when doing things they consider dangerous (or at all time,
> since life is fairly dangerous by itself).
> To sum up, the only information really necessary is an email (or phone
> number if no email, but rare these days). The email is necessary because it
> could potentially be used to remind members to stay members by paying the
> membership.
> Phone numbers are usually informally collected because people like to call
> each other and also they are useful to organize meet-ups and such. I don't
> think it is necessary to collect them officially.
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I seriously doubt that collecting extensive information about all members is a requirement to become an NGO. Many NGOs don't have members in the first place. So probably a few people have to put their names as chair/secretary/whateveryoucallit. But I seriously doubt that includes everybody else.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong. In addition, if anything at all is required, it's better to wait until we know for sure what is (and what isn't, like astrological sign for example), before we crawl the facebook profiles of all members.
On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:55:55 PM UTC+9, fakufaku wrote:
> I seriously doubt that collecting extensive information about all members > is a requirement to become an NGO. Many NGOs don't have members in the > first place. So probably a few people have to put their names as > chair/secretary/whateveryoucallit. But I seriously doubt that includes > everybody else.
> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. In addition, if anything at all is > required, it's better to wait until we know for sure what is (and what > isn't, like astrological sign for example), before we crawl the facebook > profiles of all members.
I'll say my view again but...it's not like we're running an inn here. Or
any kind of government registered entity with legal requirements. Less is
more. A name and email address is more than enough info for me. If we do
any class dangerous to require emergency contact, it would be more
appropriate to do waivers on a case-by-case basis anyway -- but even still
I'd rather keep things as casual, accessible, and lazy as possible.
Visa status / gaijin card / medical insurance / criminal records of all
relatives within 6 generations / etc. -- I *don't want to know*.
As I said I do not know for Japan, just know a little about it for Germany.
Well basically, you need a "Vereinssatzung" (articles of
association), which clearly point out stuff like
what is the purpose of the NGO
what does a membership mean
how to enter a membership
how to leave a membership
etc.
I just checked the German laws and according to them, only the total
number of members need to be send to legislative offices on request.
However, many NGOs need to keep the data internally for another
reason. A NGO is vested with legal capacity, it can e,g. rent
properties, purchases in the name of the NGO, it can sign contracts,
pay bills, etc. It also could also could take legal actions against
members (e.g. due to theft or vandalism).
However, most important a NGO needs to hold plenary meetings (e.g. to
elect the board of directors) with there members and e.g. for that
they want to send written invitation letters out to each and all
registered members. Needless to say a minimum of members have to
attend such a meeting to make any kind of election valid. For this
reasons they collect information about there members. As a general
rule I found the advice that only the minimum of necessary data should
be collected. Guess in the case of THS this might be full name, email,
phone and a postage address.
Again that is all according to German law but I guess NGO-system in
Japan is similar.
Looking into it, I see that a NGO has many advantages, however, it
also comes with a larger set of requirements which has to be fulfilled
at all time.
The pro and cons are kind of debatable...
Totti
On 2 October 2012 22:55, fakufaku <fakuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I seriously doubt that collecting extensive information about all members is
> a requirement to become an NGO. Many NGOs don't have members in the first
> place. So probably a few people have to put their names as
> chair/secretary/whateveryoucallit. But I seriously doubt that includes
> everybody else.
> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. In addition, if anything at all is
> required, it's better to wait until we know for sure what is (and what
> isn't, like astrological sign for example), before we crawl the facebook
> profiles of all members.
> To post to this group, send email to tokyohackerspace@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> tokyohackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tokyohackerspace?hl=en.
1. health emergency
2. confidence in safety and good use of the space esp. since we are
sharing with two other businesses.
If we can meet those two concerns with minimal info then we are good.
If we need more then we need more and if people are unwilling then
maybe this version of THS in a shared space is not for them...
Everyone has a personal choice. No one is twisting anyone's arm.
Not sure what we would need for NGO status. But I suspect it would be
all the detailed info on the board of directors, and one person to be
the one who's head is on a block for tax evasion, or other illegal
activity.
<torsten.wag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I said I do not know for Japan, just know a little about it for Germany.
> Well basically, you need a "Vereinssatzung" (articles of
> association), which clearly point out stuff like
> what is the purpose of the NGO
> what does a membership mean
> how to enter a membership
> how to leave a membership
> etc.
> I just checked the German laws and according to them, only the total
> number of members need to be send to legislative offices on request.
> However, many NGOs need to keep the data internally for another
> reason. A NGO is vested with legal capacity, it can e,g. rent
> properties, purchases in the name of the NGO, it can sign contracts,
> pay bills, etc. It also could also could take legal actions against
> members (e.g. due to theft or vandalism).
> However, most important a NGO needs to hold plenary meetings (e.g. to
> elect the board of directors) with there members and e.g. for that
> they want to send written invitation letters out to each and all
> registered members. Needless to say a minimum of members have to
> attend such a meeting to make any kind of election valid. For this
> reasons they collect information about there members. As a general
> rule I found the advice that only the minimum of necessary data should
> be collected. Guess in the case of THS this might be full name, email,
> phone and a postage address.
> Again that is all according to German law but I guess NGO-system in
> Japan is similar.
> Looking into it, I see that a NGO has many advantages, however, it
> also comes with a larger set of requirements which has to be fulfilled
> at all time.
> The pro and cons are kind of debatable...
> Totti
> On 2 October 2012 22:55, fakufaku <fakuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that collecting extensive information about all members is
>> a requirement to become an NGO. Many NGOs don't have members in the first
>> place. So probably a few people have to put their names as
>> chair/secretary/whateveryoucallit. But I seriously doubt that includes
>> everybody else.
>> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. In addition, if anything at all is
>> required, it's better to wait until we know for sure what is (and what
>> isn't, like astrological sign for example), before we crawl the facebook
>> profiles of all members.
>> To post to this group, send email to tokyohackerspace@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> tokyohackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/tokyohackerspace?hl=en.
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Generally when collecting potentially private information you should work out, why its needed for, and what it will be used for. Some of the information that MRE proposed collecting can be abused in various nefarious ways and shouldn't really be collected unless really necessary.
in regard to the below concerns.
For 1. It might be a good idea to collect an emergency contact number. i.e. someone to contact if a member becomes or is found incapacitated. This is what airlines do.
I don't think the level of information that you can reasonably expect people to provide will help with 2.
> 1. health emergency
> 2. confidence in safety and good use of the space esp. since we are
> sharing with two other businesses.
> If we can meet those two concerns with minimal info then we are good.
> If we need more then we need more and if people are unwilling then
> maybe this version of THS in a shared space is not for them...
> Everyone has a personal choice. No one is twisting anyone's arm.
> Not sure what we would need for NGO status. But I suspect it would be
> all the detailed info on the board of directors, and one person to be
> the one who's head is on a block for tax evasion, or other illegal
> activity.
> Lauren
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Torsten Wagner
> <torsten.wag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> As I said I do not know for Japan, just know a little about it for Germany.
>> Well basically, you need a "Vereinssatzung" (articles of
>> association), which clearly point out stuff like
>> what is the purpose of the NGO
>> what does a membership mean
>> how to enter a membership
>> how to leave a membership
>> etc.
>> I just checked the German laws and according to them, only the total
>> number of members need to be send to legislative offices on request.
>> However, many NGOs need to keep the data internally for another
>> reason. A NGO is vested with legal capacity, it can e,g. rent
>> properties, purchases in the name of the NGO, it can sign contracts,
>> pay bills, etc. It also could also could take legal actions against
>> members (e.g. due to theft or vandalism).
>> However, most important a NGO needs to hold plenary meetings (e.g. to
>> elect the board of directors) with there members and e.g. for that
>> they want to send written invitation letters out to each and all
>> registered members. Needless to say a minimum of members have to
>> attend such a meeting to make any kind of election valid. For this
>> reasons they collect information about there members. As a general
>> rule I found the advice that only the minimum of necessary data should
>> be collected. Guess in the case of THS this might be full name, email,
>> phone and a postage address.
>> Again that is all according to German law but I guess NGO-system in
>> Japan is similar.
>> Looking into it, I see that a NGO has many advantages, however, it
>> also comes with a larger set of requirements which has to be fulfilled
>> at all time.
>> The pro and cons are kind of debatable...
>> Totti
>> On 2 October 2012 22:55, fakufaku <fakuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I seriously doubt that collecting extensive information about all members is
>>> a requirement to become an NGO. Many NGOs don't have members in the first
>>> place. So probably a few people have to put their names as
>>> chair/secretary/whateveryoucallit. But I seriously doubt that includes
>>> everybody else.
>>> I'd be happy to be proven wrong. In addition, if anything at all is
>>> required, it's better to wait until we know for sure what is (and what
>>> isn't, like astrological sign for example), before we crawl the facebook
>>> profiles of all members.
>>> To post to this group, send email to tokyohackerspace@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> tokyohackerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/tokyohackerspace?hl=en.
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