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#As panic spreads, Greece sees bank runs
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2966 Dead
May 16, 2012, 6:05:42 PM5/16/12
to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster capital
flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
Savers fear Greece leaving the eurozone and returning to the drachma. An
aide to the outgoing prime minister, Lucas Papademos, said there were
"serious fears that the banks were running out of money".
Greece's president, Karolos Papoulias, warned on Monday that €700m had
been withdrawn but said he had been assured by the governor of the Greek
central bank, George Provopoulous, that there was no panic yet.
According to minutes of a meeting on Monday, Papoulias said: "Withdrawals
and outflows by 4pm when I called him [Provopoulous] exceeded €600m and
reached €700m. He expects total outflows of about €800m, including
conversions into German bunds [bonds] and other such things."
Greeks have been slowly withdrawing cash from the banking system ever
since the country first needed a bailout two years ago. Nearly a third of
bank deposits were withdrawn between January 2010 and March 2012.
A crucial €18bn cash injection to stabilise Greece's banks has been held
up at the European financial stability fund's Greek offshoot, the
Hellenic financial stability fund (HFSF), for nearly two weeks with
officials in Brussels refusing to release the funds because of the
political instability in the wake of the elections. That had still not
been released by tonight and is now not expected to be released for
another four days despite the efforts of the Papademos government to
expedite the recapitalisation of Greek banks.
The delay to the recapitalisation was said to have forced the European
Central Bank to stop dealing with some Greece banks, leaving local banks
to receive funding from the central bank until the banks received their
cash injection.
Simon Ward, chief economist at the fund manager Henderson, said there had
been a €11.7bn fall in Greek deposits in the first quarter. Domestic
private-sector deposits stood at €170bn in late March, of which €66bn was
in overnight deposits.
Ward warned this could be vulnerable. "It is reasonable to expect this
instantly accessible cash to leave the Greek banking system amid current
political and economic chaos, implying a heightened risk of deposits
being frozen and/or redenominated in the event of EMU [economic and
monetary union] expulsion," he said.
"Faster capital flight could push Greece out of the euro well before next
month's elections, rendering current political manoeuvring irrelevant,"
Ward added.
Some bankers believe Cyprus will leave the eurozone at the same time as
Greece and hope that contagion can be prevented from reaching other debt-
laden countries such as Portugal when their people see the pain that the
Greeks endure.
Anxiety about the strength of banks across Europe has reached the UK arm
of Santander after local authorities – which lost money when Iceland's
banks collapsed – queried the connections between the Spanish bank and
its UK arm, which owns Abbey, Alliance & Leicester and Bradford & Bingley.
John Simmonds, head of finance at Kent county council, said he concluded
that the UK arm of Santander was "rock solid" after talks with the bank
following the council's decision to stop using the bank for overnight
deposits. He had been reassured that the UK arm could only transfer money
to Spain through dividends.
A Santander spokesman said: "Santander's UK business is strong and has a
standalone credit rating which is one of the highest credit ratings of
any UK bank."
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster capital
flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
Savers fear Greece leaving the eurozone and returning to the drachma. An
aide to the outgoing prime minister, Lucas Papademos, said there were
"serious fears that the banks were running out of money".
Greece's president, Karolos Papoulias, warned on Monday that €700m had
been withdrawn but said he had been assured by the governor of the Greek
central bank, George Provopoulous, that there was no panic yet.
According to minutes of a meeting on Monday, Papoulias said: "Withdrawals
and outflows by 4pm when I called him [Provopoulous] exceeded €600m and
reached €700m. He expects total outflows of about €800m, including
conversions into German bunds [bonds] and other such things."
Greeks have been slowly withdrawing cash from the banking system ever
since the country first needed a bailout two years ago. Nearly a third of
bank deposits were withdrawn between January 2010 and March 2012.
A crucial €18bn cash injection to stabilise Greece's banks has been held
up at the European financial stability fund's Greek offshoot, the
Hellenic financial stability fund (HFSF), for nearly two weeks with
officials in Brussels refusing to release the funds because of the
political instability in the wake of the elections. That had still not
been released by tonight and is now not expected to be released for
another four days despite the efforts of the Papademos government to
expedite the recapitalisation of Greek banks.
The delay to the recapitalisation was said to have forced the European
Central Bank to stop dealing with some Greece banks, leaving local banks
to receive funding from the central bank until the banks received their
cash injection.
Simon Ward, chief economist at the fund manager Henderson, said there had
been a €11.7bn fall in Greek deposits in the first quarter. Domestic
private-sector deposits stood at €170bn in late March, of which €66bn was
in overnight deposits.
Ward warned this could be vulnerable. "It is reasonable to expect this
instantly accessible cash to leave the Greek banking system amid current
political and economic chaos, implying a heightened risk of deposits
being frozen and/or redenominated in the event of EMU [economic and
monetary union] expulsion," he said.
"Faster capital flight could push Greece out of the euro well before next
month's elections, rendering current political manoeuvring irrelevant,"
Ward added.
Some bankers believe Cyprus will leave the eurozone at the same time as
Greece and hope that contagion can be prevented from reaching other debt-
laden countries such as Portugal when their people see the pain that the
Greeks endure.
Anxiety about the strength of banks across Europe has reached the UK arm
of Santander after local authorities – which lost money when Iceland's
banks collapsed – queried the connections between the Spanish bank and
its UK arm, which owns Abbey, Alliance & Leicester and Bradford & Bingley.
John Simmonds, head of finance at Kent county council, said he concluded
that the UK arm of Santander was "rock solid" after talks with the bank
following the council's decision to stop using the bank for overnight
deposits. He had been reassured that the UK arm could only transfer money
to Spain through dividends.
A Santander spokesman said: "Santander's UK business is strong and has a
standalone credit rating which is one of the highest credit ratings of
any UK bank."
--
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Dänk 42Ø
May 17, 2012, 12:34:45 AM5/17/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>
> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>
> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster capital
> flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>
>
> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma currency
their socialist government will replace the euro with.
A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
a drunken sailor on shore leave.
The new drachma will be worthless, meaning Greece will not be able to
borrow money except at exorbitant interest rates. For non-Greek leftists
who oppose austerity, we should ask how many of them are willing to lend
*THEIR* money to the Greek government so that public sector employees can
continue to receive lavish salaries and pension benefits that private
citizens of other EU countries don't enjoy.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>
> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>
> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster capital
> flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>
>
> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
their socialist government will replace the euro with.
A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
a drunken sailor on shore leave.
The new drachma will be worthless, meaning Greece will not be able to
borrow money except at exorbitant interest rates. For non-Greek leftists
who oppose austerity, we should ask how many of them are willing to lend
*THEIR* money to the Greek government so that public sector employees can
continue to receive lavish salaries and pension benefits that private
citizens of other EU countries don't enjoy.
2966 Dead
May 17, 2012, 1:12:41 AM5/17/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>>
>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>
>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>
>>
>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
>> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>
> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma currency
> their socialist government will replace the euro with.
They're getting Euros into banks in the rest of Europe under the
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>>
>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>
>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>
>>
>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
>> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>
> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma currency
> their socialist government will replace the euro with.
misapprehension that it will no longer be of value in Greece.
If Greece does go to the drachma, expect them to inflate their way out
from under most of the debt.
>
> A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
> Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
> requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
> Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
> euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
> a drunken sailor on shore leave.
Basically, you're treating a patient with a heart attack by draining his
> A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
> Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
> requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
> Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
> euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
> a drunken sailor on shore leave.
blood when you use austerity measures. This has been shown over and over
throughout modern economic history.
And you really should read up on the story before you spew. Europe
doesn't want to "kick Greece out of the euro"; in fact they're fighting
like hell to prevent it. GREECE wants out.
I'm guessing you don't have a clue what the austerity measure would have
imposed on the Greek people, who did nothing to deserve it. Yes, their
government fucked up, but nobody who comes from a country that elected
George W. Bush twice has much of anything to say about that.
de...@dudu.org
May 17, 2012, 8:36:13 AM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 05:12:41 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ř wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>>>
>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>
>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (Ł2.4bn) from the banking system since the
corporate raiders and banker robber barons can clean out national
treasuries through deceit and corruption and greed, but the people are
just supposed to simply starve rather than adopt any government
regulations.
wrote:
>On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ř wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-days
>>>
>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>
>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>
>>>
>>> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
>>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>>
>> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma currency
>> their socialist government will replace the euro with.
>
>They're getting Euros into banks in the rest of Europe under the
>misapprehension that it will no longer be of value in Greece.
>
>If Greece does go to the drachma, expect them to inflate their way out
>from under most of the debt.
>>
>> A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
>> Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
>> requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
>> Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
>> euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
>> a drunken sailor on shore leave.
>
>Basically, you're treating a patient with a heart attack by draining his
>blood when you use austerity measures. This has been shown over and over
>throughout modern economic history.
>
>And you really should read up on the story before you spew. Europe
>doesn't want to "kick Greece out of the euro"; in fact they're fighting
>like hell to prevent it. GREECE wants out.
>
>I'm guessing you don't have a clue what the austerity measure would have
>imposed on the Greek people, who did nothing to deserve it. Yes, their
>government fucked up, but nobody who comes from a country that elected
>George W. Bush twice has much of anything to say about that.
It amazes me how rightards like dank can think it's ok for wealthy
>>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>>
>> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma currency
>> their socialist government will replace the euro with.
>
>They're getting Euros into banks in the rest of Europe under the
>misapprehension that it will no longer be of value in Greece.
>
>If Greece does go to the drachma, expect them to inflate their way out
>from under most of the debt.
>>
>> A recurring theme in Zepp's posts is opposition to austerity measures in
>> Europe. Spending cuts are bad, even when refusal to cut spending
>> requires hundreds of billions of euros of bailout money from the rest of
>> Europe. Now the rest of Europe is preparing to kick Greece out of the
>> euro, meaning Greece will have to borrow money to continue spending like
>> a drunken sailor on shore leave.
>
>Basically, you're treating a patient with a heart attack by draining his
>blood when you use austerity measures. This has been shown over and over
>throughout modern economic history.
>
>And you really should read up on the story before you spew. Europe
>doesn't want to "kick Greece out of the euro"; in fact they're fighting
>like hell to prevent it. GREECE wants out.
>
>I'm guessing you don't have a clue what the austerity measure would have
>imposed on the Greek people, who did nothing to deserve it. Yes, their
>government fucked up, but nobody who comes from a country that elected
>George W. Bush twice has much of anything to say about that.
corporate raiders and banker robber barons can clean out national
treasuries through deceit and corruption and greed, but the people are
just supposed to simply starve rather than adopt any government
regulations.
Message has been deleted
2966 Dead
May 17, 2012, 11:36:40 AM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 06:36:13 -0600, deep wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 05:12:41 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 05:12:41 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>>
>>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>>
>>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>>
>>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>>
>>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>>
>>>>
but out best interests at heart! How can people be free and independent
and not have to fear the government if banks don't own their little asses?
2966 Dead
May 17, 2012, 12:43:18 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ...
> famous last words dontchathink ? :-)
Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
wouldn't be happening.
>
> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> before they're in charge ?
Next election is now set for June.
> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ...
> famous last words dontchathink ? :-)
Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
wouldn't be happening.
>
> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> before they're in charge ?
Next election is now set for June.
Dänk 42Ø
May 17, 2012, 1:18:24 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 05:12:41 +0000, 2966 Dead wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>
>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>
>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
>>> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
>>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>>
>> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma
>> currency their socialist government will replace the euro with.
>
> They're getting Euros into banks in the rest of Europe under the
> misapprehension that it will no longer be of value in Greece.
Euros in Greek accounts will be converted to new drachmas. I'm just
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>
>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>
>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>
>>>
>>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since the
>>> country's inconclusive elections on 6 May, with tellers saying savers
>>> were making two or three visits a day to local banks.
>>
>> Obviously the Greek people do not have faith in the new drachma
>> currency their socialist government will replace the euro with.
>
> They're getting Euros into banks in the rest of Europe under the
> misapprehension that it will no longer be of value in Greece.
assuming that the new drachma will be valued at the same rate the old
drachma went into the euro in 2000, 340.75 to one. Obviously, Greeks
would immediately withdraw their drachmas and convert them to euros or
dollars or even rubles, so the government will declare a bank holiday and
freeze accounts for days or weeks as they devalue the drachma to 1000 or
more. In a best case scenario, Greek citizens will lose 50% of the value
of their savings. Sure beats austerity!
> If Greece does go to the drachma, expect them to inflate their way out
> from under most of the debt.
they will run up more debt. The risk of inflation means Greece will have
to pay high interest rates on its bonds. The interest will be repaid
with devalued drachmas, inflation and interest rates will spiral out of
control, and the government will add more zeros to the new drachma until
it looks like the Zimbabwe dollar.
> I'm guessing you don't have a clue what the austerity measure would have
> imposed on the Greek people, who did nothing to deserve it. Yes, their
> government fucked up, but nobody who comes from a country that elected
> George W. Bush twice has much of anything to say about that.
inflation and devaluation, the Greek people voted to join the euro,
believing that taking money creation out of the hands of their government
would force fiscal responsibility. Then they elected a government that
promised them free money, but instead of printing drachmas it borrowed
euros. They tolerated a cover-up of the real amount of the debt, which
exceeded EU limits. They begged for a bailout, and after receiving it
they refused to cut spending.
Now they want to exit the euro so they can inflate their way out of
debt. A devalued drachma means spending won't have to be cut -- everyone
gets free money. But the money they receive buys less than before.
Public school teachers get the 25% raise they demanded, but their new
salary buys 50% less. This leads to a downward spiral where workers
demand pay increases to keep up with inflation, the government prints
more currency to pay the higher wages, inflation increases even more.
Same thing happened in Mexico in the 1980s, Zimbabwe in the 1990s, in
Venezuela now, and in Greece later this year.
Here is a history of the post-war drachma, and what Greeks have to look
forward to if they exit the euro:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_drachma
"During the German-Italian occupation of Greece from 1941 to 1944,
catastrophic hyperinflation and Nazi looting of the Greek treasury caused
much higher denominations to be issued, culminating in 100,000,000,000-
drachma notes in 1944."
"In November 1944, after Greece was liberated from Germany, old drachmae
were exchanged for new ones at the rate of 50,000,000,000 to 1. ... This
drachma also suffered from high inflation. The government later issued
100-, 500-, and 1000-drachma notes, and the Bank of Greece issued 20,000-
and 50,000-drachma notes."
"In 1953, in an effort to halt inflation, Greece joined the Bretton Woods
system. In 1954, the drachma was revalued at a rate of 1000 to 1. The new
currency was pegged at 30 drachmae = 1 United States dollar. In 1973, the
Bretton Woods System was abolished; over the next 25 years the official
exchange rate gradually declined, reaching 400 drachmae to 1 U. S.
dollar. On January 1, 2002, the Greek drachma was officially replaced as
the circulating currency by the euro, and it has not been legal tender
since March 1, 2002."
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Still, this is a guy who rewrote a Wikipedia page to prop up a fantasy
that the Mexicon peso collapsed to 1/1,000th of it's value about ten
years ago."
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/379176/Mexico-Year-In-
Review-1993
"Monetary units: Mexican (old) peso, with (Oct. 4, 1993) a free rate of
3,122 pesos to U.S. $1 (4,730 pesos = £1 sterling), and the Mexican new
peso (currency circulating alongside the Mexican [old] peso from January
2 for a period of 2 1/2 years at the rate of 1 new peso = 1,000 [old]
pesos)."
Dänk 42Ø
May 17, 2012, 1:20:44 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 06:36:13 -0600, deep wrote:
>>On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:34:45 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>>
>>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>>
>>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greeks have withdrawn €3bn (£2.4bn) from the banking system since
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 22:05:42 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/16/greeks-withdraw-3bn-10-
days
>>>>
>>>> Greeks withdraw €3bn in 10 days since election
>>>>
>>>> Greece's savers making daily bank visits as analysts warn faster
>>>> capital flight could push country out of euro before June's poll
>>>>
>>>>
said I said. Zepp changed the subject from the Greek economic crisis to
George W. Bush, and now all the leftards jump in the thread and start
quacking about him.
But please, do tell us which corporate raider cleaned out the Greek
treasury.
Dänk 42Ø
May 17, 2012, 1:23:20 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> before they're in charge ?
Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
> before they're in charge ?
rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant about
not devaluing the euro.
2966 Dead
May 17, 2012, 4:22:57 PM5/17/12
to
for the drachma.
I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
after World War I.
Message has been deleted
Steve
May 17, 2012, 6:58:33 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:
Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
wrote:
Message has been deleted
Steve
May 17, 2012, 9:34:29 PM5/17/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:33:54 -0400, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
No, they're just big kids with expensive toys
>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, D�nk 42� wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>>
>>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>>>
>>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro or
>>>for the drachma.
>>>
>>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
>>>the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
>>>after World War I.
>>
>>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
>
> So Pentagon generals are lefties ? :-)
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>>
>>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>>>
>>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro or
>>>for the drachma.
>>>
>>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
>>>the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
>>>after World War I.
>>
>>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
>
No, they're just big kids with expensive toys
Milt
May 17, 2012, 10:06:42 PM5/17/12
to
On May 17, 9:34 pm, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:33:54 -0400, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
> >Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:33:54 -0400, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <d...@gone.com>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, D nk 42 wrote:
>
> >>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> >>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> >>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> >>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> >>>>> before they're in charge ?
>
> >>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
> >>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
> >>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>
> >>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro or
> >>>for the drachma.
>
> >>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
> >>>the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
> >>>after World War I.
>
> >>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
> > So Pentagon generals are lefties ? :-)
>
> No, they're just big kids with expensive toys
The irony is, the generals don't want most of those "toys." But their
>
> >>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, D nk 42 wrote:
>
> >>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> >>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> >>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> >>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> >>>>> before they're in charge ?
>
> >>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
> >>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
> >>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>
> >>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro or
> >>>for the drachma.
>
> >>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
> >>>the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
> >>>after World War I.
>
> >>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
> > So Pentagon generals are lefties ? :-)
>
> No, they're just big kids with expensive toys
right wing Republican benefactors demand they take the shit, anyway.
Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
Democrats.
2966 Dead
May 17, 2012, 11:14:38 PM5/17/12
to
they're caught fucking up, "both parties do it" really DOES apply.
The only President since Hoover to really trim the military was George HW
Bush.
Milt
May 17, 2012, 11:32:19 PM5/17/12
to
as much in constant dollars as we did during WWII? Really? Also, just
as many cuts were made under Clinton, and there have been significant
cuts during Obama's administration. You know, like taking one whole
war out of the picture; the one Republicans have been whining about
since. Of course, presidents can't trim the military, anyway. They can
recommend cuts, but only Congress can make them.
I would also point out that all of this is about the debt ceiling deal
the GOP made, in which they agreed to cut the military by up to 25% if
they couldn't come up with other cuts. They're now reneging on that,
which Obama knew they would.
Even on this, at this point in time, both parties are polar opposites.
And comparing the current GOP with past iterations of the party
doesn't work, anyway. Ronald Reagan would be "too liberal" for the
current GOP.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 12:03:26 AM5/18/12
to
Also, just as
> many cuts were made under Clinton, and there have been significant cuts
> during Obama's administration. You know, like taking one whole war out
> of the picture; the one Republicans have been whining about since. Of
> course, presidents can't trim the military, anyway. They can recommend
> cuts, but only Congress can make them.
>
date.
Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at least
make political hay out of it.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 12:13:40 AM5/18/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:33:54 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
> Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>>
>>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under
>>>> Nazi rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so
>>>> adamant about not devaluing the euro.
>>>
>>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
>>>or for the drachma.
>>>
>>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure,
>>>by the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on
>>>Germany after World War I.
>>
>>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>>
>>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under
>>>> Nazi rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so
>>>> adamant about not devaluing the euro.
>>>
>>>Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
>>>or for the drachma.
>>>
>>>I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure,
>>>by the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on
>>>Germany after World War I.
>>
>>Lefties hate austerity... they want to spend, spend, spend...
>
>
> So Pentagon generals are lefties ? :-)
Of the worst kind! The whole army is one giant commune, you know!
Robert Fitzgerald
May 18, 2012, 1:28:51 AM5/18/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:03:49 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> Hmmm ... too soon maybe. Fascists need a period of social
> unrest/suffering so they can swoop in and promise to 'save' the
> country. Oh well, maybe the results of the June election will be crap
> too and there'll have to be another.
>
> Now by winter, the way money is fleeing Greece right now, yea ...
> there really MAY be some very serious 'unrest' going on. First the
> commies and fascists will have to have it out, then the winner takes
> all. Nobody will stop 'em ... a total Greek default will have the
> rest of europe in a tizzy and they'll have better things to worry
> about.
I might be wrong, but I'd kind of halfway anyway think maybe a system
might come out of all this where people basically realize more how things
really work....
Seems like, the general trend...
I think, modern technology kind of encourages that. People see the real
world, realize where some of hte problems are...
Sure, lots of people don't, but we don't want them doing brain surgery.
Thing is, the people who can do brain surgery, or say, do some accounting
have a better knowledge of how things really work, and what really will
make a better (if not perfect) world for people...
Kind of an ongoing thing like the end of the USSR...
OTOH, technology does also enable more power perhaps - at the same time -
to those who want to know where you are at all times, etc... What you
believe, what you'll vote for, how to manipulate you...
(not meaning you specifically, obviously I hope... all of us...)
Seems like the trend in general is towards more libertarian ideas to a
substantial degree IMO, plus conservative...
OTOH, a comet could come and whack us, so it's hardly a perfect world,
IMO... We can probably do the approx same to ourselves... (not all comets
destroy us totally I imagine..)
Maybe I"m too pollyannish..
--
Bobby
> unrest/suffering so they can swoop in and promise to 'save' the
> country. Oh well, maybe the results of the June election will be crap
> too and there'll have to be another.
>
> Now by winter, the way money is fleeing Greece right now, yea ...
> there really MAY be some very serious 'unrest' going on. First the
> commies and fascists will have to have it out, then the winner takes
> all. Nobody will stop 'em ... a total Greek default will have the
> rest of europe in a tizzy and they'll have better things to worry
> about.
I might be wrong, but I'd kind of halfway anyway think maybe a system
might come out of all this where people basically realize more how things
really work....
Seems like, the general trend...
I think, modern technology kind of encourages that. People see the real
world, realize where some of hte problems are...
Sure, lots of people don't, but we don't want them doing brain surgery.
Thing is, the people who can do brain surgery, or say, do some accounting
have a better knowledge of how things really work, and what really will
make a better (if not perfect) world for people...
Kind of an ongoing thing like the end of the USSR...
OTOH, technology does also enable more power perhaps - at the same time -
to those who want to know where you are at all times, etc... What you
believe, what you'll vote for, how to manipulate you...
(not meaning you specifically, obviously I hope... all of us...)
Seems like the trend in general is towards more libertarian ideas to a
substantial degree IMO, plus conservative...
OTOH, a comet could come and whack us, so it's hardly a perfect world,
IMO... We can probably do the approx same to ourselves... (not all comets
destroy us totally I imagine..)
Maybe I"m too pollyannish..
--
Bobby
Message has been deleted
Robert Fitzgerald
May 18, 2012, 2:23:06 AM5/18/12
to
On Fri, 18 May 2012 02:23:48 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> You're wrong. They WON'T admit how things really work, what MUST be
> done. Ideology and petty self interetst will prevail - creating
> disaster.
I wonder... Places like North Korea, the ex Warsaw pact are mostly
gone... Even Cuba and North Korea (more radical) are going a little free
market... North korea must be very confused... like, just when we
thought, maybe go a little free market stuff starts falling apart...
Thing is, the socialist nations haven't every done very great...
A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people ultimately
who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market stuff works,
socialist stuff doens't...
Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
That's what really, IMO, ended the USSR and socialist associated
nations... People saw the world through VCR tapes, the sergeants and
above, and realized, sociliasm produces really lousy results for people,
in reality, but free markets or *something* in the West does well... So,
they cared more about their nations, about people, than they did about
ideas like sociliasm, even the socialism of their fathers and mothers...
(their religion, so to speak...)
Only, what really works.... precisely... and, nothing's perfect..
Libertarian society isn't heaven... Just a lot less hell on average...
plus, more of Heaven... if only a little more..
Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
technology...
--
Bobby
> done. Ideology and petty self interetst will prevail - creating
> disaster.
I wonder... Places like North Korea, the ex Warsaw pact are mostly
gone... Even Cuba and North Korea (more radical) are going a little free
market... North korea must be very confused... like, just when we
thought, maybe go a little free market stuff starts falling apart...
Thing is, the socialist nations haven't every done very great...
A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people ultimately
who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market stuff works,
socialist stuff doens't...
Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
That's what really, IMO, ended the USSR and socialist associated
nations... People saw the world through VCR tapes, the sergeants and
above, and realized, sociliasm produces really lousy results for people,
in reality, but free markets or *something* in the West does well... So,
they cared more about their nations, about people, than they did about
ideas like sociliasm, even the socialism of their fathers and mothers...
(their religion, so to speak...)
Only, what really works.... precisely... and, nothing's perfect..
Libertarian society isn't heaven... Just a lot less hell on average...
plus, more of Heaven... if only a little more..
Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
technology...
--
Bobby
Steve
May 18, 2012, 5:43:15 AM5/18/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
<LOL> Now Milt imagines he can speak for the military leadership.
>Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
>Democrats.
It's not so much that Milt knows nothing, it's just that most of what
he "knows" is wrong.. for instance..
"companies are literally hoarding "cash." And by
definition, if they have the cash, it's not in
circulation. Money is zero-sum, which means, every
dollar a company holds onto is a dollar that isn't
in circulation. "
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/a3be1dd3b08297bb?hl=en
wrote:
>Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
>Democrats.
he "knows" is wrong.. for instance..
"companies are literally hoarding "cash." And by
definition, if they have the cash, it's not in
circulation. Money is zero-sum, which means, every
dollar a company holds onto is a dollar that isn't
in circulation. "
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/a3be1dd3b08297bb?hl=en
linuxgal
May 18, 2012, 8:19:27 AM5/18/12
to
Robert Fitzgerald wrote:
> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
> technology...
Or we could go with the Obama future, with bicycles, and cars that drive
> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
> technology...
on sidewalks, and let the comet get us.
Milt
May 18, 2012, 10:06:46 AM5/18/12
to
Afghanistan cost us about $3 trillion, and most of that was for Iraq.
Suddenly, we're spending next to nothing on Iraq.
>
> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at least
> make political hay out of it.
>
Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at least
> make political hay out of it.
>
including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In fact,
the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised you
hadn't heard.
The promised cuts from the debt ceiling deal would come on top of
those.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/06/AR2011010603628.html
No extra appropriations and a
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 10:21:29 AM5/18/12
to
reprovisioning and restocking. Let's not forget all the light armor that
got destroyed and needs to be replaced. And just for shits and giggles,
even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>>
>> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
>> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
>> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at
>> least make political hay out of it.
>>
>>
> Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In fact,
> the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised you hadn't
> heard.
The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
>> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
>> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
>> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at
>> least make political hay out of it.
>>
>>
> Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In fact,
> the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised you hadn't
> heard.
hearing is preemptive whining.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 10:42:12 AM5/18/12
to
simultaneously in one sentence that Obama wants us to develop advanced,
superior technology, and that Obama won't let us develop advanced,
superior technology!
Slackfest
May 18, 2012, 11:41:18 AM5/18/12
to
--Speaking of 'involuntary movements', like knee-jerks..
Dänk 42Ø
May 18, 2012, 1:33:52 PM5/18/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 16:43:18 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>
>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
> wouldn't be happening.
The EU didn't "impose" austerity, it simply made it a condition of
receiving more bailout money. Greece is free to do whatever it wants,
but it does not have a right to free money from other countries.
In Germany, austerity has been the norm for decades, and rather than
becoming the impoverished third-world shithole your crackpot economic
theory predicts, it is one of the wealthiest and most advanced countries
on earth. Its 5.6% unemployment rate is far lower than Spain's 25%,
which you blame on a lack of government spending. Now you -- who are not
even an EU citizen -- expect fiscally responsible German taxpayers to
give their hard-earned money to Greek public employees who enjoy lavish
salaries and pension benefits that Germans can only dream of?
>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>> before they're in charge ?
>
> Next election is now set for June.
Democratic socialism inevitably collapses and is replaced by
dictatorship. The Greek people will vote for more free money, and since
the money has run out they will riot and order will eventually be
restored by force.
Zepp tries to portray Greece as some kind of "victim," which is like
saying my brother is a "victim" because he is addicted to tobacco. Every
few hours he wants five bucks for another pack of cigarettes. I tell him
he needs to reduce his smoking, and he says he will but never does. It
is not fair that I refuse to support his excessive smoking. It is cruel
that I cut him off at this moment in time, when he needs a cigarette the
most. Because I bought him a pack of cigarettes yesterday, I am required
to buy him cigarettes forever. He is broke because he spends all his
money on cigarettes, so he is "entitled" to a bailout paid for by
everyone else.
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>
>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
> wouldn't be happening.
receiving more bailout money. Greece is free to do whatever it wants,
but it does not have a right to free money from other countries.
In Germany, austerity has been the norm for decades, and rather than
becoming the impoverished third-world shithole your crackpot economic
theory predicts, it is one of the wealthiest and most advanced countries
on earth. Its 5.6% unemployment rate is far lower than Spain's 25%,
which you blame on a lack of government spending. Now you -- who are not
even an EU citizen -- expect fiscally responsible German taxpayers to
give their hard-earned money to Greek public employees who enjoy lavish
salaries and pension benefits that Germans can only dream of?
>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>> before they're in charge ?
>
> Next election is now set for June.
dictatorship. The Greek people will vote for more free money, and since
the money has run out they will riot and order will eventually be
restored by force.
Zepp tries to portray Greece as some kind of "victim," which is like
saying my brother is a "victim" because he is addicted to tobacco. Every
few hours he wants five bucks for another pack of cigarettes. I tell him
he needs to reduce his smoking, and he says he will but never does. It
is not fair that I refuse to support his excessive smoking. It is cruel
that I cut him off at this moment in time, when he needs a cigarette the
most. Because I bought him a pack of cigarettes yesterday, I am required
to buy him cigarettes forever. He is broke because he spends all his
money on cigarettes, so he is "entitled" to a bailout paid for by
everyone else.
Dänk 42Ø
May 18, 2012, 1:45:38 PM5/18/12
to
On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000, 2966 Dead wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>
>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>
>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>
>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>> before they're in charge ?
>>
>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>> about not devaluing the euro.
>
> Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
> or for the drachma.
Experts expect an immediate 40% devaluation of the new drachma. This
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>
>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>
>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>
>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>> before they're in charge ?
>>
>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>> about not devaluing the euro.
>
> Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
> or for the drachma.
will service existing debt, but it is not enough to cover public demand
for increased spending. I posted a link to the history of the post-WW2
drachma, and you can see what kind of currency the Greek people demand.
> I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure, by
> the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on Germany
> after World War I.
to pay for the damage it caused when it tried to conquer the world. By
your logic, it is unfair to sue someone for damages in court, since they
will have to give up some of their luxuries to repay you.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 2:01:46 PM5/18/12
to
On Fri, 18 May 2012 12:45:38 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>
>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>
>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>
>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>>
>> Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
>> or for the drachma.
>
> Experts expect an immediate 40% devaluation of the new drachma. This
> will service existing debt, but it is not enough to cover public demand
> for increased spending. I posted a link to the history of the post-WW2
> drachma, and you can see what kind of currency the Greek people demand.
Yes, because conditions are identical to Nazi occupation. I got a good
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:57 +0000, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:23:20 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>>>>
>>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
>>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>>>>
>>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
>>>> before they're in charge ?
>>>
>>> Adolf Hitler came to power in an era of hyperinflation, and under Nazi
>>> rule the German mark was strong. This is why Germany is so adamant
>>> about not devaluing the euro.
>>
>> Oddly enough, nobody is talking about hyperinflation, not for the euro
>> or for the drachma.
>
> Experts expect an immediate 40% devaluation of the new drachma. This
> will service existing debt, but it is not enough to cover public demand
> for increased spending. I posted a link to the history of the post-WW2
> drachma, and you can see what kind of currency the Greek people demand.
laugh out of that. I don't dispute the 40% devaluation; that sounds like
a pretty solid guesstimate. But it's hardly 'hyperinflation'. As noted,
you need economic demand for inflation in the first place in a consumer
society (which is why all the right wing dire warnings of runaway
inflation here as a result of the bailouts and stimulus never came to
anything) and so inflation won't really ravage the Greek people for some
time, if ever.
>
>
>> I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure,
>> by the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on
>> Germany after World War I.
>
> By "austerity," you mean the Treaty of Versailles, which required
> Germany to pay for the damage it caused when it tried to conquer the
> world. By your logic, it is unfair to sue someone for damages in court,
> since they will have to give up some of their luxuries to repay you.
The spectacular failure of the reparations program shows that just
>
>> I note that Germany's hyperinflation was triggered, in large measure,
>> by the very safe sort of austerity measures the allies imposed on
>> Germany after World War I.
>
> By "austerity," you mean the Treaty of Versailles, which required
> Germany to pay for the damage it caused when it tried to conquer the
> world. By your logic, it is unfair to sue someone for damages in court,
> since they will have to give up some of their luxuries to repay you.
because someone owes you money doesn't mean that you should engage in
aggressive and destructive collection methods, or even put you in the
right.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 2:09:16 PM5/18/12
to
Sweden, and Canada are all doing somewhat well.
>
> A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
> such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people
> ultimately who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market
> stuff works, socialist stuff doens't...
So how many transcontinental roads and railroads did the private sector
> A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
> such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people
> ultimately who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market
> stuff works, socialist stuff doens't...
set up?
>
> Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
> with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
>
> That's what really, IMO, ended the USSR and socialist associated
> nations... People saw the world through VCR tapes, the sergeants and
> above, and realized, sociliasm produces really lousy results for people,
> in reality, but free markets or *something* in the West does well... So,
> they cared more about their nations, about people, than they did about
> ideas like sociliasm, even the socialism of their fathers and mothers...
> (their religion, so to speak...)
>
Come back if you ever figure out what 'sociliasm' [sic] is.
> Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
> with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
>
> That's what really, IMO, ended the USSR and socialist associated
> nations... People saw the world through VCR tapes, the sergeants and
> above, and realized, sociliasm produces really lousy results for people,
> in reality, but free markets or *something* in the West does well... So,
> they cared more about their nations, about people, than they did about
> ideas like sociliasm, even the socialism of their fathers and mothers...
> (their religion, so to speak...)
>
linuxgal
May 18, 2012, 3:45:52 PM5/18/12
to
Slackfest wrote:
> On 5/18/2012 9:42 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:19:27 -0700, linuxgal wrote:
>>>
>>> Robert Fitzgerald wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
>>>> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
>>>> technology...
>>>
>>> Or we could go with the Obama future, with bicycles, and cars that drive
>>> on sidewalks, and let the comet get us.
>>
>> There you have it folks! A right wing cunt managed to whine
>> simultaneously in one sentence that Obama wants us to develop advanced,
>> superior technology, and that Obama won't let us develop advanced,
>> superior technology!
If you think a bicycle is advanced technology, then you must be an
> On 5/18/2012 9:42 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:19:27 -0700, linuxgal wrote:
>>>
>>> Robert Fitzgerald wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
>>>> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
>>>> technology...
>>>
>>> Or we could go with the Obama future, with bicycles, and cars that drive
>>> on sidewalks, and let the comet get us.
>>
>> There you have it folks! A right wing cunt managed to whine
>> simultaneously in one sentence that Obama wants us to develop advanced,
>> superior technology, and that Obama won't let us develop advanced,
>> superior technology!
emigre from North Korea. And you say "cunt" like that's a bad thing.
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 4:52:43 PM5/18/12
to
Milt
May 18, 2012, 5:36:48 PM5/18/12
to
On May 18, 5:43 am, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
Nope. They speak for themselves just fine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030702216.html
http://nsnetwork.org/pentagon-conservative-worldviews-clash-on-house-floor/
And Google "F-22," fucktard. Navy pilots refuse to fly it, and the
Pentagon has been asking that the program be killed for years, but
Republicans have blocked every attempt to do so.
Wow. You don't read much news, do you?
> I "know" is wrong..
I know, Sparky.
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030702216.html
http://nsnetwork.org/pentagon-conservative-worldviews-clash-on-house-floor/
And Google "F-22," fucktard. Navy pilots refuse to fly it, and the
Pentagon has been asking that the program be killed for years, but
Republicans have blocked every attempt to do so.
Wow. You don't read much news, do you?
>
> >Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
> >Democrats.
>
> It's not so much that I know nothing, it's just that most of what
> >Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
> >Democrats.
>
> I "know" is wrong..
I know, Sparky.
Milt
May 18, 2012, 5:30:51 PM5/18/12
to
> Or went to
> reprovisioning and restocking.
> Let's not forget all the light armor that
> got destroyed and needs to be replaced.
> And just for shits and giggles,
> even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
> forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
> thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>
Why are you so intent on being right that you ignore actual facts?
The FACT is, the difference between the FY 2010 and FY 2012 defense
budgets was a TOTAL of 3%. You'll note that that ***includes*** both
wars, and that the number is less than inflation.
Once more; a FLAT defense budget INCLUDING two wars that had
previously been conducted off the books. How is that not a pretty
significant cut?
There have also been two proposals for cuts; the first one was
approved by Dems before we helped boot them out of office, and the
second one was punted by the current House, thus kicking in the nuts
your basic premise that "both parties" are basically the same
regarding the defense budget.
>
> >> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
> >> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
> >> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at
> >> least make political hay out of it.
>
> > Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> > including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In fact,
> > the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised you hadn't
> > heard.
>
> The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
> hearing is preemptive whining.
They HAVE happened. They went through before the Democrats left
> >> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
> >> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for that.
> >> But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that, or at
> >> least make political hay out of it.
>
> > Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> > including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In fact,
> > the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised you hadn't
> > heard.
>
> The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
> hearing is preemptive whining.
office. Jesus, I even gave you a link.
You're wrong. GHWB was NOT the only one to cut defense, and Obama has
cut it, actually pretty significantly.But then, your ilk seems to like
trashing him as much as the wingnuts. You certainly seem just as
willing to believe bullshit.
Bullshit doesn't turn into wisdom just because it's spouted by a
liberal. Stop it.
Steve
May 18, 2012, 6:06:55 PM5/18/12
to
On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:36:48 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
Nobody has refused to fly it and no, the pentagon has not been asking
to kill it.. Milt should try reading something other than the leftist
bloggers...
>Wow. You don't read much news, do you?
>>
>> >Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
>> >Democrats.
>>
> It's not so much that I know nothing, it's just that most of what
> I "know" is wrong..
>
Indeed, Shook, here's more evidence of that
"The states cannot amend the constitution. Congress can.
--Milt Shook Dec 14 1999
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/msg/7e04b6aeaa019d1a?hl=en
"I've explained it to you before; it's because the state is
obligated to protect your First Amendment rights, even
from private parties. "
--Milt Shook claiming that private parties are subject to the First Amendment
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/49833dff86ea3447
"Bush can pardon ANYONE for ANYTHING. The purpose of the pardon power
in the first place was so that the president would have the power to
right a judicial wrong, even at the state level. Since probably at
least 90% or more of crime is prosecuted at the state level, it
wouldn't make sense to only give him the power to pardon federal
crimes."
--Milt Shook claiming that Bush could pardon OJ Simpson.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/4f4fe748216d1e2e?hl=en
"Of COURSE the US Constitution is state law! You moron!
Do you even know what it means to "ratify" something?"
--Milt Shook was he drunk when he said this?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/b27b8b27a4ae5e03?hl=en&
"In fact, being married actually CUTS
Social Security benefits for both."
--Milt Shook disagreeing with the social security people
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/e76631f45f458651?hl=en
"The feds don't have jurisdiction on a street corner. "
--Milt.Shook... July 22, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/28db971e38f80e7f
"It doesn't matter if it's state property or not; the state doesn't
have to power to limit access to a public area. They can charge to
access it, but they can't force people to have a state ID card or
something. It's right in the 14th Amendment; if you allow one person
to get in for free, then all people have to be allowed in for free, if
it's public property."
--Milt Shook.. more ignorance of the law
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/83e117a21b818c9b
"You cannot fire someone for something that
has nothing to do with their job."
--Milt Shook ...wrong again...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/c85065e97f69d9e0?hl=en
wrote:
to kill it.. Milt should try reading something other than the leftist
bloggers...
>Wow. You don't read much news, do you?
>>
>> >Yes, I said it's Republicans who spend money like drunken sailors, not
>> >Democrats.
>>
> It's not so much that I know nothing, it's just that most of what
> I "know" is wrong..
>
"The states cannot amend the constitution. Congress can.
--Milt Shook Dec 14 1999
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/msg/7e04b6aeaa019d1a?hl=en
"I've explained it to you before; it's because the state is
obligated to protect your First Amendment rights, even
from private parties. "
--Milt Shook claiming that private parties are subject to the First Amendment
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/49833dff86ea3447
"Bush can pardon ANYONE for ANYTHING. The purpose of the pardon power
in the first place was so that the president would have the power to
right a judicial wrong, even at the state level. Since probably at
least 90% or more of crime is prosecuted at the state level, it
wouldn't make sense to only give him the power to pardon federal
crimes."
--Milt Shook claiming that Bush could pardon OJ Simpson.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/4f4fe748216d1e2e?hl=en
"Of COURSE the US Constitution is state law! You moron!
Do you even know what it means to "ratify" something?"
--Milt Shook was he drunk when he said this?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/b27b8b27a4ae5e03?hl=en&
"In fact, being married actually CUTS
Social Security benefits for both."
--Milt Shook disagreeing with the social security people
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/e76631f45f458651?hl=en
"The feds don't have jurisdiction on a street corner. "
--Milt.Shook... July 22, 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/28db971e38f80e7f
"It doesn't matter if it's state property or not; the state doesn't
have to power to limit access to a public area. They can charge to
access it, but they can't force people to have a state ID card or
something. It's right in the 14th Amendment; if you allow one person
to get in for free, then all people have to be allowed in for free, if
it's public property."
--Milt Shook.. more ignorance of the law
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/83e117a21b818c9b
"You cannot fire someone for something that
has nothing to do with their job."
--Milt Shook ...wrong again...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/c85065e97f69d9e0?hl=en
2966 Dead
May 18, 2012, 6:57:50 PM5/18/12
to
had a deficit of 200 units.
>
>> And just for shits and giggles,
>> even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
>> forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
>> thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>>
> Ok, you list a bunch of crap. I gave you numbers and examples.
>
> Why are you so intent on being right that you ignore actual facts?
>
> The FACT is, the difference between the FY 2010 and FY 2012 defense
> budgets was a TOTAL of 3%. You'll note that that ***includes*** both
> wars, and that the number is less than inflation.
>
Hardly a dramatic cut, is it? And of course, that's the amount allocated
>> And just for shits and giggles,
>> even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
>> forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
>> thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>>
> Ok, you list a bunch of crap. I gave you numbers and examples.
>
> Why are you so intent on being right that you ignore actual facts?
>
> The FACT is, the difference between the FY 2010 and FY 2012 defense
> budgets was a TOTAL of 3%. You'll note that that ***includes*** both
> wars, and that the number is less than inflation.
>
to the Department of Defense. There's virtually the entire nuclear
program stashed under the Department of Energy, a bunch of proto-military
stuff in DHS, and 'non-military' expenditures for private entities
serving the military, whether custodial or transportation or even
protection.
And of course, there is still the matter of all those injured vets.
> Once more; a FLAT defense budget INCLUDING two wars that had previously
> been conducted off the books. How is that not a pretty significant cut?
>
gimmick to downplay the size of the deficits, but it eventually was
tabulated. It's not like the money simply vanished, unless you count
those pallettes of $100 bills, or the billions lost in "rebuilding" in
both Iraq and Afghanistan. (Oh, and before you leap to your paranoid
defense of all things Democratic, I'll note that I don't blame Obama for
that).
> There have also been two proposals for cuts; the first one was approved
> by Dems before we helped boot them out of office, and the second one was
> punted by the current House, thus kicking in the nuts your basic premise
> that "both parties" are basically the same regarding the defense budget.
sailors. Do you really think the Republicans have America outspending
the rest of the world combined on military all on their own?
>>
>> >> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
>> >> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for
>> >> that. But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that,
>> >> or at least make political hay out of it.
>>
>> > Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
>> > including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In
>> > fact, the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised
>> > you hadn't heard.
>>
>> The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
>> hearing is preemptive whining.
>
> They HAVE happened. They went through before the Democrats left office.
> Jesus, I even gave you a link.
>
You have me a link to the debt ceiling deal--which I acknowledged prior
>> >> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
>> >> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for
>> >> that. But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that,
>> >> or at least make political hay out of it.
>>
>> > Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
>> > including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In
>> > fact, the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised
>> > you hadn't heard.
>>
>> The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
>> hearing is preemptive whining.
>
> They HAVE happened. They went through before the Democrats left office.
> Jesus, I even gave you a link.
>
to that. Even gave Obama credit for that. You're so intent on
disagreeing you can't even discern where we're in agreement.
> You're wrong. GHWB was NOT the only one to cut defense, and Obama has
> cut it, actually pretty significantly.But then, your ilk seems to like
> trashing him as much as the wingnuts. You certainly seem just as willing
> to believe bullshit.
a cut. And I'm guessing the 3% includes the defaults from the failed
turkey committee, which haven't happened yet.
>
> Bullshit doesn't turn into wisdom just because it's spouted by a
> liberal. Stop it.
>
You talking to me or yourself?
> Bullshit doesn't turn into wisdom just because it's spouted by a
> liberal. Stop it.
>
Message has been deleted
Liberal Here
May 19, 2012, 3:12:11 PM5/19/12
to
On May 18, 2:23 am, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
differences between the 1960s and 2000s.
Again, you're just projecting your intellectual shortcomings.
> Robert Fitzgerald <rob...@fizmarkianbobo.com> wrote:
> >On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:03:49 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:03:49 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >> 2966 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>
> >>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> >>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> >>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> >>>Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
> >>>wouldn't be happening.
>
> >>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> >>>> before they're in charge ?
>
> >>>Next election is now set for June.
>
> >> Hmmm ... too soon maybe. Fascists need a period of social
> >> unrest/suffering so they can swoop in and promise to 'save' the
> >> country. Oh well, maybe the results of the June election will be crap
> >> too and there'll have to be another.
>
> >> Now by winter, the way money is fleeing Greece right now, yea ...
> >> there really MAY be some very serious 'unrest' going on. First the
> >> commies and fascists will have to have it out, then the winner takes
> >> all. Nobody will stop 'em ... a total Greek default will have the
> >> rest of europe in a tizzy and they'll have better things to worry
> >> about.
>
> >I might be wrong, but I'd kind of halfway anyway think maybe a system
> >might come out of all this where people basically realize more how things
> >really work....
>
>
> >>>On Thu, 17 May 2012 11:34:33 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> >>>> This is the end, the bitter end ...
>
> >>>> 'Austerity' ? We don't NEED no stinkin' 'austerity' ... famous last
> >>>> words dontchathink ? :-)
>
> >>>Yeah. If Europe had been listening and hadn't imposed austerity, this
> >>>wouldn't be happening.
>
> >>>> I see the fascist party has made significant gains already. How long
> >>>> before they're in charge ?
>
> >>>Next election is now set for June.
>
> >> Hmmm ... too soon maybe. Fascists need a period of social
> >> unrest/suffering so they can swoop in and promise to 'save' the
> >> country. Oh well, maybe the results of the June election will be crap
> >> too and there'll have to be another.
>
> >> Now by winter, the way money is fleeing Greece right now, yea ...
> >> there really MAY be some very serious 'unrest' going on. First the
> >> commies and fascists will have to have it out, then the winner takes
> >> all. Nobody will stop 'em ... a total Greek default will have the
> >> rest of europe in a tizzy and they'll have better things to worry
> >> about.
>
> >I might be wrong, but I'd kind of halfway anyway think maybe a system
> >might come out of all this where people basically realize more how things
> >really work....
>
> You're wrong. They WON'T admit how things really work,
> what MUST be done. Ideology and petty self interetst
> will prevail - creating disaster.
Heh....like you being unwilling to look at the economic and fiscal
> what MUST be done. Ideology and petty self interetst
> will prevail - creating disaster.
differences between the 1960s and 2000s.
Again, you're just projecting your intellectual shortcomings.
Liberal Here
May 19, 2012, 3:20:23 PM5/19/12
to
On May 18, 2:23 am, Robert Fitzgerald <rob...@fizmarkianbobo.com>
Ummmm, try mixing in a little political analysis with your musings.
Hint: Dictatorial government versus liberal governance.
>
> A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
> such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people ultimately
> who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market stuff works,
> socialist stuff doens't...
"Free Market" huh? Compare the number of auto companies today versus
the auto heyday. Same for food prices. Pharma...etc. just about
anything you care to name.
The economic term for this is "Price Takers" versus "Price Setters".
I'll leave it up to you to understand it all.
>
> Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
> with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
Ummmm, yeah....all that analysis of the consequences of Senate
Minority Leader McConnell's strategy of making sure Obama is a "one
term" president...announced before Obama even took the oath of office.
wrote:
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 02:23:48 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> > Robert Fitzgerald <rob...@fizmarkianbobo.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:03:49 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 02:23:48 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> > Robert Fitzgerald <rob...@fizmarkianbobo.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:03:49 -0400, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
Hint: Dictatorial government versus liberal governance.
>
> A lot of people just probably genetically don't have much sense about
> such things, but maybe 50% do... Those are probably the people ultimately
> who organize stuff... MOre of them realize, the free market stuff works,
> socialist stuff doens't...
the auto heyday. Same for food prices. Pharma...etc. just about
anything you care to name.
The economic term for this is "Price Takers" versus "Price Setters".
I'll leave it up to you to understand it all.
>
> Even the news people probably realize it... so aren't helping out Obama
> with as much crazy/lying stuff. They care some about reality...
Minority Leader McConnell's strategy of making sure Obama is a "one
term" president...announced before Obama even took the oath of office.
Liberal Here
May 19, 2012, 3:22:47 PM5/19/12
to
Liberal Here
May 19, 2012, 3:24:07 PM5/19/12
to
On May 18, 3:45 pm, linuxgal <linux...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
> Slackfest wrote:
> > On 5/18/2012 9:42 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:19:27 -0700, linuxgal wrote:
>
> >>> Robert Fitzgerald wrote:
>
> >>>> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
> >>>> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
> >>>> technology...
>
> >>> Or we could go with the Obama future, with bicycles, and cars that drive
> >>> on sidewalks, and let the comet get us.
>
> >> There you have it folks! A right wing cunt managed to whine
> >> simultaneously in one sentence that Obama wants us to develop advanced,
> >> superior technology, and that Obama won't let us develop advanced,
> >> superior technology!
>
> If you think a bicycle is advanced technology,
Sometimes....check what they ride in the Olympics.
> Slackfest wrote:
> > On 5/18/2012 9:42 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:19:27 -0700, linuxgal wrote:
>
> >>> Robert Fitzgerald wrote:
>
> >>>> Still, a comet could come and whack us... libertarians won't stop it
> >>>> right off - but maybe in 50 years... Give some time to build up some
> >>>> technology...
>
> >>> Or we could go with the Obama future, with bicycles, and cars that drive
> >>> on sidewalks, and let the comet get us.
>
> >> There you have it folks! A right wing cunt managed to whine
> >> simultaneously in one sentence that Obama wants us to develop advanced,
> >> superior technology, and that Obama won't let us develop advanced,
> >> superior technology!
>
> If you think a bicycle is advanced technology,
Milt
May 21, 2012, 10:25:30 AM5/21/12
to
>
> >> And just for shits and giggles,
> >> even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
> >> forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
> >> thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>
> > Ok, you list a bunch of crap. I gave you numbers and examples.
>
> > Why are you so intent on being right that you ignore actual facts?
>
> > The FACT is, the difference between the FY 2010 and FY 2012 defense
> > budgets was a TOTAL of 3%. You'll note that that ***includes*** both
> > wars, and that the number is less than inflation.
>
> Hardly a dramatic cut, is it? And of course, that's the amount allocated
> to the Department of Defense. There's virtually the entire nuclear
> program stashed under the Department of Energy, a bunch of proto-military
> stuff in DHS, and 'non-military' expenditures for private entities
> serving the military, whether custodial or transportation or even
> protection.
Yawn. The 3% INCLUDES both wars, which were previously off the books.
> >> And just for shits and giggles,
> >> even though technically it isn't part of the military budget, let's not
> >> forget the billions of dollars spent on medical care for tens of
> >> thousands of Americans permanently ruined but not killed over there.
>
> > Ok, you list a bunch of crap. I gave you numbers and examples.
>
> > Why are you so intent on being right that you ignore actual facts?
>
> > The FACT is, the difference between the FY 2010 and FY 2012 defense
> > budgets was a TOTAL of 3%. You'll note that that ***includes*** both
> > wars, and that the number is less than inflation.
>
> Hardly a dramatic cut, is it? And of course, that's the amount allocated
> to the Department of Defense. There's virtually the entire nuclear
> program stashed under the Department of Energy, a bunch of proto-military
> stuff in DHS, and 'non-military' expenditures for private entities
> serving the military, whether custodial or transportation or even
> protection.
>
> And of course, there is still the matter of all those injured vets.
>
> > Once more; a FLAT defense budget INCLUDING two wars that had previously
> > been conducted off the books. How is that not a pretty significant cut?
>
> It didn't exactly stay off the books, did it? It was an accounting
> gimmick to downplay the size of the deficits, but it eventually was
> tabulated. It's not like the money simply vanished, unless you count
> those pallettes of $100 bills, or the billions lost in "rebuilding" in
> both Iraq and Afghanistan. (Oh, and before you leap to your paranoid
> defense of all things Democratic, I'll note that I don't blame Obama for
> that).
>
> > There have also been two proposals for cuts; the first one was approved
> > by Dems before we helped boot them out of office, and the second one was
> > punted by the current House, thus kicking in the nuts your basic premise
> > that "both parties" are basically the same regarding the defense budget.
>
> I said that on matters military, both parties have spent like drunken
> sailors. Do you really think the Republicans have America outspending
> the rest of the world combined on military all on their own?
>
YES!!!!!! You've been on here prattling on about the right wing for 16
> And of course, there is still the matter of all those injured vets.
>
> > Once more; a FLAT defense budget INCLUDING two wars that had previously
> > been conducted off the books. How is that not a pretty significant cut?
>
> It didn't exactly stay off the books, did it? It was an accounting
> gimmick to downplay the size of the deficits, but it eventually was
> tabulated. It's not like the money simply vanished, unless you count
> those pallettes of $100 bills, or the billions lost in "rebuilding" in
> both Iraq and Afghanistan. (Oh, and before you leap to your paranoid
> defense of all things Democratic, I'll note that I don't blame Obama for
> that).
>
> > There have also been two proposals for cuts; the first one was approved
> > by Dems before we helped boot them out of office, and the second one was
> > punted by the current House, thus kicking in the nuts your basic premise
> > that "both parties" are basically the same regarding the defense budget.
>
> I said that on matters military, both parties have spent like drunken
> sailors. Do you really think the Republicans have America outspending
> the rest of the world combined on military all on their own?
>
years, and you don't think they have any influence over government?
The government's been dominated by ever-more-radicalized neocons for
the last 32 years. Haven't you noticed? Jesus, you LOVE to talk
politics, but you sure as shit don't know much about it.
Out of 32 years, Republicans have been in the White House 20 of them,
which means they controlled both ends of the process. In the other 12
years, Clinton had control for eight, but he only had a Democratic
Congress for two. And yet, the defense budget dropped during his term.
Bush, OTOH, exploded the shit out of it for six years. The Democratic
Congress helped a bit when they got in, but the economy was imploding.
And Obama was kinda preoccupied with keeping us out of a Depression
when he took office; did you really expect him to gut the military,
and put even MORE people out of work? And perhaps you heard, but the
far left fucked up in 2010, and handed the House back to the GOP. How
many defense cuts do you imagine Obama will be able to get through
now? He's tried killing a few weapons programs, but they reinstate
them. And he can't just shut down the military while he fights with
them.
If you had been paying attention, during the last Congress (which you
guys whined about for two fucking years!) there were a number of
proposals to offer subsidies to encourage retrofitting some defense
plants and other factories, to turn them into alternative energy
plants. THAT is how you solve the problem. You can't just lop off 3-4
weapons systems overnight, especially when unemployment is around 8%.
See, you apparently only see weapons. What you fail to see are
individual workers (some even union) building those weapons and making
damned good money doing so. And, right now you have a Congress that is
being hamstrung by radicals, whom you claim are "the same" as the
Democrats. They block everything good Obama has tried to do. How would
you like Democrats to make large defense cuts right now, with a
radical Congress that won't even pass a jobs bill?
I swear, all of this "both parties are the same" bullshit really chaps
me. How do you call yourself a "political junkie" or a "news junkie"
and not even notice that one party has become completely radicalized?
When you and your far left brethren rail about both parties being the
same, not only are you full of shit, but moderate swing voters only
hear that message, and they think Democrats and Republicans are two
sides of the same coin, which is, of course, complete and utter
horseshit. Seriously; what people HEAR is, John Boehner and Nancy
Pelosi are the same. Really? Are they?
I'm trying to figure out if you're just so gullible that you believe
everything the left wing bloggers tell you, or you've been blustering
on Usenet for so long, it's clouded your judgment. But surely you have
to have noticed that Ronald Reagan would be too "liberal" for today's
GOP.
Democrats would cut defense, but do so smartly, which you would whine
about, because you have the same problem right wingers have; you don't
understand where defense money goes. Obama proposed cutting several
weapons systems last year, including the F-22, which is useless, and
the current GOP House put it back. Of course, you wouldn't have
noticed that, because you and your ilk were obsessing over the 1 page
section of the NDAA dealing with "indefinite detention" and ignoring
everything else in it.
If Republicans take charge again, they would once again explode the
size of the defense budget, and probably invade Iran, costing another
couple of trillion.
That you can even BEGIN to claim they're even remotely alike makes me
wonder what you're smoking.
>
> >> >> Now, if the Supercommittee default holds, then yes, there will be
> >> >> significant cuts to the military, and Obama can take credit for
> >> >> that. But the GOP are doing everything they can to renege on that,
> >> >> or at least make political hay out of it.
>
> >> > Last year alone saw $78 billion in cuts over the next five years, not
> >> > including the end of the Iraq war. I'd call that significant. In
> >> > fact, the GOP has been whining about that for a year; I'm surprised
> >> > you hadn't heard.
>
> >> The cuts are still being debated and haven't happened yet. What you're
> >> hearing is preemptive whining.
>
> > They HAVE happened. They went through before the Democrats left office.
> > Jesus, I even gave you a link.
>
> You have me a link to the debt ceiling deal--which I acknowledged prior
> to that. Even gave Obama credit for that. You're so intent on
> disagreeing you can't even discern where we're in agreement.
for the high defense budget, which is an incredibly stupid statement
to make. Carter cut defense pretty seriously during his term, then
Reagan exploded the defense budget. Bush Sr, made some cuts after the
Cold War was over, which Clinton continued. Then Bush, Jr. and the GOP
Congress exploded the defense budget to levels Reagan could have only
dreamed of, and conducted two wars off the books using borrowed money.
Obama's first two passed defense budgets only saw a 1% per year
increase, even though he folded both wars into them, and for his third
budget, he ordered severe cuts, which the GOP Congress restored.
Your claim that both parties are responsible for the high defense
budget is laughable. The last Democrat to blow up the defense budget
was LBJ. That was a while ago.
>
> > You're wrong. GHWB was NOT the only one to cut defense, and Obama has
> > cut it, actually pretty significantly.But then, your ilk seems to like
> > trashing him as much as the wingnuts. You certainly seem just as willing
> > to believe bullshit.
>
> I don't see a 3% increase on the DoD increase as being much in the way of
> a cut. And I'm guessing the 3% includes the defaults from the failed
> turkey committee, which haven't happened yet.
It's a pretty substantial cut, when you consider it included
> > You're wrong. GHWB was NOT the only one to cut defense, and Obama has
> > cut it, actually pretty significantly.But then, your ilk seems to like
> > trashing him as much as the wingnuts. You certainly seem just as willing
> > to believe bullshit.
>
> I don't see a 3% increase on the DoD increase as being much in the way of
> a cut. And I'm guessing the 3% includes the defaults from the failed
> turkey committee, which haven't happened yet.
expenditures for both wars.
>
> > Bullshit doesn't turn into wisdom just because it's spouted by a
> > liberal. Stop it.
>
> You talking to me or yourself?
>
I'm not the one claiming "both parties" let the defense budget blow
> > Bullshit doesn't turn into wisdom just because it's spouted by a
> > liberal. Stop it.
>
> You talking to me or yourself?
>
up, against all evidence.
Milt
May 21, 2012, 10:29:35 AM5/21/12
to
On May 18, 6:06 pm, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:36:48 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
> >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR200...
>
> >http://nsnetwork.org/pentagon-conservative-worldviews-clash-on-house-...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/04/air-force-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-over-safety-fears/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/stealth-pilots-mutiny/
http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/some-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-raptor-fighter-jet-1.176228
If you're going to talk politics with people, shouldn't you have at
least a passing knowledge of what's going on in the world?
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:36:48 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
>
> >http://nsnetwork.org/pentagon-conservative-worldviews-clash-on-house-...
>
> >And Google "F-22," fucktard. Navy pilots refuse to fly it, and the
> >Pentagon has been asking that the program be killed for years, but
> >Republicans have blocked every attempt to do so.
>
> Nobody has refused to fly it and no, the pentagon has not been asking
> to kill it.. Milt should try reading something other than the leftist
> bloggers...
>
I just told you to Google it.
> >And Google "F-22," fucktard. Navy pilots refuse to fly it, and the
> >Pentagon has been asking that the program be killed for years, but
> >Republicans have blocked every attempt to do so.
>
> Nobody has refused to fly it and no, the pentagon has not been asking
> to kill it.. Milt should try reading something other than the leftist
> bloggers...
>
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/04/air-force-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-over-safety-fears/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/stealth-pilots-mutiny/
http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/some-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-raptor-fighter-jet-1.176228
If you're going to talk politics with people, shouldn't you have at
least a passing knowledge of what's going on in the world?
Steve
May 21, 2012, 11:35:32 AM5/21/12
to
On Mon, 21 May 2012 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Turning down the opportunity to fly it" is rather different from
refusing to fly it and since the number of them is not specified, it's
really not an issue. Suffice it to say that there are plenty of
pilots that have no problem flying it.
wrote:
refusing to fly it and since the number of them is not specified, it's
really not an issue. Suffice it to say that there are plenty of
pilots that have no problem flying it.
Milt
May 21, 2012, 1:02:38 PM5/21/12
to
On May 21, 11:35 am, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
> >http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/04/air-force-pilots-refuse-to-fly-...
>
> >http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/stealth-pilots-mutiny/
>
> >http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/some-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-...
says so.
Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
it.
Why do you insist on being stupid?
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
>
> >http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/stealth-pilots-mutiny/
>
> >http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/some-pilots-refuse-to-fly-f-22-...
>
> >If you're going to talk politics with people, shouldn't you have at
> >least a passing knowledge of what's going on in the world?
>
> "Turning down the opportunity to fly it" is rather different from
> refusing to fly it and since the number of them is not specified, it's
> really not an issue. Suffice it to say that there are plenty of
> pilots that have no problem flying it.
You fucking idiot. They are REFUSING to fly it. Every single article
> >If you're going to talk politics with people, shouldn't you have at
> >least a passing knowledge of what's going on in the world?
>
> "Turning down the opportunity to fly it" is rather different from
> refusing to fly it and since the number of them is not specified, it's
> really not an issue. Suffice it to say that there are plenty of
> pilots that have no problem flying it.
says so.
Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
it.
Why do you insist on being stupid?
Steve
May 21, 2012, 5:04:46 PM5/21/12
to
On Mon, 21 May 2012 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
Those leftist blogs don't count, Shook. The only article that counts
says some unspecified number of pilots are "turning down the
opportunity to fly it."
>Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
>anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
>it
<LOL> Anonymous??? Why Milly, didn't you say you knew who I was? Oh
wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
See, when you turn on your GPS, that delay is the satellite
communicating with the GPS device to tell you where you are. It's not
possible to do that by simply receiving a signal; it has to send one,
too.
--Milt Shook
wrote:
says some unspecified number of pilots are "turning down the
opportunity to fly it."
>Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
>anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
>it
wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
.
>Why do you insist on being stupid?
That's from Milt Shook who says:
>Why do you insist on being stupid?
See, when you turn on your GPS, that delay is the satellite
communicating with the GPS device to tell you where you are. It's not
possible to do that by simply receiving a signal; it has to send one,
too.
--Milt Shook
Milt
May 21, 2012, 6:15:09 PM5/21/12
to
On May 21, 5:04 pm, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
First of all, Stars and Stripes is not a leftist blog.
Here's a Google search, you simple-minded fool:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=refuse+to+fly+F-22&oq=refuse+to+fly+F-22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.12...0.0.2.7721.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0.7JvIfxmEYzk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=98967cfacd585950&ion=1&biw=1366&bih=643
As you can see, there are hundreds of news stories about this,
including many from right-wing sources.
Second of all, WTF do you think "turning down the opportunity to fly
it" means in USAF terms? It means they're refusing to fly it, you
fucking nitwit. They're told to fly it and they're refusing the
order.
fucking loon. Do you have a basic understanding of anything?
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
Here's a Google search, you simple-minded fool:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=refuse+to+fly+F-22&oq=refuse+to+fly+F-22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.12...0.0.2.7721.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0.7JvIfxmEYzk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=98967cfacd585950&ion=1&biw=1366&bih=643
As you can see, there are hundreds of news stories about this,
including many from right-wing sources.
Second of all, WTF do you think "turning down the opportunity to fly
it" means in USAF terms? It means they're refusing to fly it, you
fucking nitwit. They're told to fly it and they're refusing the
order.
>
> >Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
> >anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
> >it
>
> <LOL> Anonymous??? Why Milly, didn't you say you knew who I was? Oh
> wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
Maybe I do, maybe I don't. That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
> >Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
> >anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
> >it
>
> <LOL> Anonymous??? Why Milly, didn't you say you knew who I was? Oh
> wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
fucking loon. Do you have a basic understanding of anything?
Steve
May 21, 2012, 7:35:12 PM5/21/12
to
On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:15:09 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
<LOL> You don't, Dummy. Face it, Shook, you were born clueless and
you've been going downhill ever since..
> That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>fucking loon. Do you have a basic understanding of anything?
sketchy, but one of them runs on oxygen -- the one they're touting
most highly and the one that powers Google and FedEx simply uses
oxygen.
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/dd0839b4d74ea78b?hl=en
wrote:
you've been going downhill ever since..
> That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>fucking loon. Do you have a basic understanding of anything?
That's from Milt Shook who says:
Depends on which [Bloom fuel cell] Box you use. I agree the 60 minutes report is
sketchy, but one of them runs on oxygen -- the one they're touting
most highly and the one that powers Google and FedEx simply uses
oxygen.
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/dd0839b4d74ea78b?hl=en
Milt
May 22, 2012, 12:10:29 PM5/22/12
to
On May 21, 7:35 pm, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:15:09 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
> >https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#h...
find out who you are, it's funny.
I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>
> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>
> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
you graduate middle school?
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:15:09 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
>
> >As you can see, there are hundreds of news stories about this,
> >including many from right-wing sources.
>
> >Second of all, WTF do you think "turning down the opportunity to fly
> >it" means in USAF terms? It means they're refusing to fly it, you
> >fucking nitwit. They're told to fly it and they're refusing the
> >order.
>
> >> >Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
> >> >anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
> >> >it
>
> >> <LOL> Anonymous??? Why Milly, didn't you say you knew who I was? Oh
> >> wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
>
> >Maybe I do, maybe I don't.
>
> <LOL> You don't, Dummy. Face it, Shook, you were born clueless and
> you've been going downhill ever since..
You hope I don't. You are so desperately afraid that someone might
> >As you can see, there are hundreds of news stories about this,
> >including many from right-wing sources.
>
> >Second of all, WTF do you think "turning down the opportunity to fly
> >it" means in USAF terms? It means they're refusing to fly it, you
> >fucking nitwit. They're told to fly it and they're refusing the
> >order.
>
> >> >Why do you insist on being openly stupid? Oh, right; that's why you're
> >> >anonymous; you can be as dumb as you want and never have to answer for
> >> >it
>
> >> <LOL> Anonymous??? Why Milly, didn't you say you knew who I was? Oh
> >> wait, that was another of Shook's many lies..
>
> >Maybe I do, maybe I don't.
>
> <LOL> You don't, Dummy. Face it, Shook, you were born clueless and
> you've been going downhill ever since..
find out who you are, it's funny.
I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>
> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>
> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
you graduate middle school?
Steve
May 22, 2012, 2:22:30 PM5/22/12
to
On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
I know that you don't and I'm not the least bit concerned that you or
anybody else will...
>I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
>what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
<chuckle> I already know you don't have a clue, Shook. I also know
that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
about.
"Keep an eye on your bookstore next Christmas, and my name
will pop out at you."
--Milt Shook 1997/12/06
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=348A1B90.51A97B99%40hearthlink.net
"You mean the one that I'm rewriting for publication right now? Or the
one that two publishing houses are interested in?"
--Milt Shook 1998/06/14
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35831dc6.12233272%40news.earthlink.net
"Sory I have to leave, but I have a novel to finish. Look in your
bookstore
this Christmas; hopefully, no later than march, if Xmas doesn't work
out."
--Milt Shook 1998/08/25
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35e34aca.5878878%40news.earthlink.net
>> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>>
>> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
>> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>
>I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
>as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
Shook swings in both directions... I think he's prefer women but he's
never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
he swings the other way every now and then.
>I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
>you graduate middle school?
It's not an insult, Shook, it's just a case of me letting you know
what I know...
wrote:
anybody else will...
>I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
>what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
about.
"Keep an eye on your bookstore next Christmas, and my name
will pop out at you."
--Milt Shook 1997/12/06
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=348A1B90.51A97B99%40hearthlink.net
"You mean the one that I'm rewriting for publication right now? Or the
one that two publishing houses are interested in?"
--Milt Shook 1998/06/14
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35831dc6.12233272%40news.earthlink.net
"Sory I have to leave, but I have a novel to finish. Look in your
bookstore
this Christmas; hopefully, no later than march, if Xmas doesn't work
out."
--Milt Shook 1998/08/25
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35e34aca.5878878%40news.earthlink.net
>> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>>
>> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
>> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>
>I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
>as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
he swings the other way every now and then.
>I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
>you graduate middle school?
what I know...
Milt
May 22, 2012, 3:08:13 PM5/22/12
to
On May 22, 2:22 pm, Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
So, you admit you're deathly afraid to let anyone know who you are.
Finally, some honesty. Although you probably said it inadvertently.
<snip>
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt.sh...@gmail.com>
Finally, some honesty. Although you probably said it inadvertently.
>
> >I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
> >what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>
> <chuckle> I already know you don't have a clue, Shook. I also know
> that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
> amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
> about.
Really? Show me a "brag" that's less than 10 years old.
> >I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
> >what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>
> <chuckle> I already know you don't have a clue, Shook. I also know
> that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
> amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
> about.
<snip>
>
> >> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>
> >> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
> >> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>
> >I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
> >as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
>
> Shook swings in both directions... I think he's prefer women but he's
> never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
> he swings the other way every now and then.
>
> >I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
> >you graduate middle school?
>
> It's not an insult, Shook, it's just a case of me letting you know
> what I know...
You don't know anything. But we knew that from your Usenet activity.
> >> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>
> >> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
> >> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>
> >I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
> >as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
>
> Shook swings in both directions... I think he's prefer women but he's
> never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
> he swings the other way every now and then.
>
> >I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
> >you graduate middle school?
>
> It's not an insult, Shook, it's just a case of me letting you know
> what I know...
Steve
May 22, 2012, 7:28:45 PM5/22/12
to
On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:08:13 -0700 (PDT), Milt <milt....@gmail.com>
wrote:
<LOL> Poor dumb Milt... I have web sites on the Internet.. some
pictures of me there... Go find 'em...
>> >I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
>> >what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>>
>> <chuckle> I already know you don't have a clue, Shook. I also know
>> that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
>> amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
>> about.
>
>Really? Show me a "brag" that's less than 10 years old.
><snip>
Perhaps you've learned..
>> >> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>>
>> >> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
>> >> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>>
>> >I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
>> >as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
>>
>> Shook swings in both directions... I think he's prefer women but he's
>> never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
>> he swings the other way every now and then.
>>
>> >I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
>> >you graduate middle school?
>>
>> It's not an insult, Shook, it's just a case of me letting you know
>> what I know...
>
>You don't know anything. But we knew that from your Usenet activity.
You still don't have a clue..
"companies are literally hoarding "cash." And by
definition, if they have the cash, it's not in
circulation. Money is zero-sum, which means, every
dollar a company holds onto is a dollar that isn't
in circulation. "
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/a3be1dd3b08297bb?hl=en
wrote:
pictures of me there... Go find 'em...
>> >I would never out anyone, even if they asked me to, because that's not
>> >what I do. So, you'll never find out one way or another.
>>
>> <chuckle> I already know you don't have a clue, Shook. I also know
>> that you live in a total fog, imagining that your silly blogs and
>> amateur level, vanity press published books are something to brag
>> about.
>
>Really? Show me a "brag" that's less than 10 years old.
><snip>
>> >> > That doesn't mean you're not anonymous, you
>>
>> >> Shook is pissed off because I mentioned his homosexual activities..
>> >> Shook doesn't want that to get out...
>>
>> >I'm not gay. If I was, I'd freely admit it. I have no problem with it,
>> >as long as I don't have to watch them have sex.
>>
>> Shook swings in both directions... I think he's prefer women but he's
>> never been able to find a women that'd let him arms length to... so
>> he swings the other way every now and then.
>>
>> >I find it telling that you think calling me that is an insult. When do
>> >you graduate middle school?
>>
>> It's not an insult, Shook, it's just a case of me letting you know
>> what I know...
>
>You don't know anything. But we knew that from your Usenet activity.
"companies are literally hoarding "cash." And by
definition, if they have the cash, it's not in
circulation. Money is zero-sum, which means, every
dollar a company holds onto is a dollar that isn't
in circulation. "
--Milt Shook
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/a3be1dd3b08297bb?hl=en
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