Howlerfest Pictures
chris thompson
(free registration required, no email validation needed).
The pics are in a group room at
http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
Enjoy!
Chris
I hope I got all this correct )
All-Seeing-I
wrote:
Wow. Those pics looked great. Crisp and bursting with realistic color.
Good job.
Such cute dogs too.
and I was happy to see veggies on the table :D
Now, If I could just get you guys to understand evolution is not man's
origins.
Friar Broccoli
> On Nov 26, 8:36 am, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have posted some pictures of the New York Howlerfest on Snapfish
> > (free registration required, no email validation needed).
>
> > The pics are in a group room at
>
> >http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
>
> > Enjoy!
>
> > Chris
> > I hope I got all this correct )
>
> Wow. Those pics looked great. Crisp and bursting with realistic color.
> Good job.
>
> Such cute dogs too.
>
> and I was happy to see veggies on the table :D
.
> Now, If I could just get you guys to understand evolution is not man's
> origins.
NO PROBLEM. You just need to find an alternative explanation that
explains the observations better than evolution does.
Note: conveniently forgetting most of the evidence won't work.
You can start by explaining this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/tests/Mistery_skel.jpg
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
It looks like a plastic halloween decoration hanging across 2x4's
Friar Broccoli
.
> It looks like a plastic halloween decoration hanging across 2x4's
Since I have made repeated efforts to show it to you, I thought
you already knew what it was.
Here is the page where I found the image:
http://shutterbug.ucsc.edu/sealion/view_album.php?set_albumName=album44
or here:
http://tinyurl.com/nsojs5
And here are some good photos of the animal with its skin on:
http://www.ejphoto.com/steller_sea_lion_page.htm
I assume that even you can understand that a hip, a knee-cap,
and a tail bone on a seal skeleton fits very well within an
evolution account.
How can you make sense of it if God has designed an unchanging
species?
Remember, you need a BETTER account that explains (doesn't dismiss)
all the facts.
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
God did not make an "unchanging" species. Evolution happens for the
survival of the species on a dynamic planet.
It makes more sense to believe that a creator made each "kind" of life
which in turn filled the earth after it's own kind through variations,
then it does to think everything spontaneously rose to life all by
itself from a single molecule that in turn produced all of the
variation that we see.
Going back to your skeleton;
The skeleton is a perfect example of a 'common design' shared by many
mammals. It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
designs strength and ability..
Friar Broccoli
.
Then why not a design that had more in common with other sea mammals
(dolphins and whales) which swim MUCH more efficiently than seals?
> It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
> and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
> designs strength and ability..
But this does NOT explain the facts. It is an attempt to explain the
facts away, with a hypothesis for which there is absolutely NO
evidence.
You cannot even tell me why whales and dolphins were not cursed the
same way.
On top of that we have fossil evidence that supports the genetic and
morphologic evidence that seals and bears share a common ancestor:
http://nature.ca/puijila/index_e.cfm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090422-seal-evolution-missing-link.html
http://oceanlink.island.net/biodiversity/seals/sealevol.html
On top of that, scripture can be read to be completely consistent
with evolution, so you're just making up stuff from your imagination
which is completely unsupported by even the flimsiest of evidence.
How can you convince us without ANY evidence? None?
when we have an explanation that fits all the relevant observations?
Ye Old One
<ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>The skeleton is a perfect example
Far from perfect - especially in humans.
> of a 'common design' shared by many
>mammals.
There is no sign of design.
>It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
>and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
>designs strength and ability..
Hohohohoho!
--
Bob.
When D-G made Madman out of clay he forgot to magic the brain. I think
that explains everything.
All-Seeing-I
the seals needed to be agile on land and water , right?
>
> > It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
> > and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
> > designs strength and ability..
>
> But this does NOT explain the facts. It is an attempt to explain the
> facts away, with a hypothesis for which there is absolutely NO
> evidence.
> You cannot even tell me why whales and dolphins were not cursed the
> same way.
>
> On top of that we have fossil evidence that supports the genetic and
> morphologic evidence that seals and bears share a common ancestor:
>
>
> On top of that, scripture can be read to be completely consistent
> with evolution, so you're just making up stuff from your imagination
> which is completely unsupported by even the flimsiest of evidence.
>
> How can you convince us without ANY evidence? None?
> when we have an explanation that fits all the relevant observations?- Hide quoted text -
Friar Broccoli
>>> survival of the species on a dynamic planet.
>
>>> It makes more sense to believe that a creator made each "kind" of life
>>> which in turn filled the earth after it's own kind through variations,
>>> then it does to think everything spontaneously rose to life all by
>>> itself from a single molecule that in turn produced all of the
>>> variation that we see.
.
>>> Going back to your skeleton;
>>> The skeleton is a perfect example of a 'common design' shared by many
>>> mammals.
>
>> Then why not a design that had more in common with other sea mammals
>> (dolphins and whales) which swim MUCH more efficiently than seals?
>
> the seals needed to be agile on land and water , right?
It really is heartening to see you making an effort to come up
with an explanation that might have some chance of making
sense. It suggests that we are getting through to you enough
so you may be beginning to understand how hopelessly absurd
your position is.
In any case this explanation won't do you any good. Whales and
dolphins can travel in water about 3 times as fast as seals (if
memory serves). The main reason is the strength and stiffness
of their spines which allows their muscles to act much more
efficiently than is possible against that pile of loose bone in
the tail section of a seal.
I can think of many ways of achieving a stiff spine while
retaining the very minimal amount of mobility that seals have
(nothing more than necessary to bear their young on land), but
since you will insist on common design, lobe finned fish supply
what is probably the best model. They have the needed stiff
spine and bony fins (or legs). Actually, I suspect seals
could do just fine with a stiff spine and their existing large
front flippers, but that's a different idea.
That said, I feel silly explaining all this to you since the
tail bone, hip joint, and knee cap are so obviously unnecessary
byproducts of their former history as animals that walked on
land, which is backed up by all the usual information from the
fossil record and the DNA analysis.
Why do you hang on to such absurd beliefs that aren't even
supportable from a plain reading of scripture?
Even more insane: How can you expect to convince those of us
here who know how ridiculous your position is? You are making
your God a laughing stock. The Great Broccoli fears loosing
His position.
bpuharic
t.
>
>It makes more sense to believe that a creator made each "kind" of life
>which in turn filled the earth after it's own kind through variations,
>then it does to think everything spontaneously rose to life all by
>itself from a single molecule that in turn produced all of the
>variation that we see.
abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution. sorry. you dont
understand evolution well enough to criticize it.
and creationism? you guys have been giving us the 'god did it' mumbo
jumbo for 2000 years. hasn't worked once. it's rancid snake oil
>
>Going back to your skeleton;
>The skeleton is a perfect example of a 'common design' shared by many
>mammals. It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
>and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
>designs strength and ability..
meaningless. another reason why creatoinism is dead.
>
chris thompson
> wrote:
>
> > I have posted some pictures of the New York Howlerfest on Snapfish
> > (free registration required, no email validation needed).
>
> > The pics are in a group room at
>
> >http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
>
> > Enjoy!
>
> > Chris
> > I hope I got all this correct )
>
> Wow. Those pics looked great. Crisp and bursting with realistic color.
> Good job.
I have a nice little Canon camera. And I didn't upload the crappy
shots )
>
> Such cute dogs too.
I hate to say it, but the cockapoo is my favorite. Pel is simply the
nicest dog I have ever known in my life. The littler guy, Panda, can
be aggressive- he's a little thug sometimes. But Pel is never, ever
mean-tempered. When you pick him up from a sleep he makes these silly
noises that seem like growls but aren't. He's just the best dog ever,
and I never, ever thought another dog would beat out the German
Shepard dog I grew up with but there you have it. I love taking Pel to
the beach at night and letting him run- he chases the foam from the
surf up and down the beach, and it's hilarious- the mighty hunter LOL.
But...from that picture you cannot see his body type. He's skinny with
a huge chest and long legs. Damn but that dog can run. And no, don't
answer with any creationist stuff, and I won't claim any evo stuff.
It's just total pleasure watching that dog run wherever he wants for
as far as he wants.
>
> and I was happy to see veggies on the table :D
Those? They were plastic. We chucked 'em after we took pictures
LOL
But um, did you see the shrimp? We had salad leftovers, but no shrimp
survived the experience hehe.
>
> Now, If I could just get you guys to understand evolution is not man's
> origins.
Right.
But no one who loves dogs like you do can ever be all bad :)
Even Will in New Haven has to admit that.
Chris
Caranx latus
wrote:
Nice pictures. Any chance of putting some names to the faces?
John Wilkins
<3750da35-de66-4f05...@x16g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Matt and Cathy Silberstein (Matt with beard, Cathy with dogs either
side of her)
Chris Thompson, unserer Host.
Paul and Gail Gans (temporally challenged couple)
John Pieret (long grayish hair)
Mitch Coffey (short hair, shown sitting next to some Antipodean shoo-in)
Bill and Maude <?> Morse
Some Antipodean shoo-in.
All-Seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
Since you proceeded with the personal attacks I can only assume you
understabd that the seal is best suited for land and water the way it
is.
This post, however, should get an award for the BEST rationalization
ever. Congratulations evo-freak.
.
All-Seeing-I
wrote:
WoW! Pel sounds so cool!
One of my dogs (when he was much younger) liked to play with the waves
too.
Now he likes to watch TV with pictures of waves (laffs!)
>
> > and I was happy to see veggies on the table :D
>
> Those? They were plastic. We chucked 'em after we took pictures
>
> LOL
ROFLMAO!!
> But um, did you see the shrimp? We had salad leftovers, but no shrimp
> survived the experience hehe.
[giggles and laffs!]... I must admit my love for the little critters
too.
>
> > Now, If I could just get you guys to understand evolution is not man's
> > origins.
>
> Right.
>
> But no one who loves dogs like you do can ever be all bad :)
> Even Will in New Haven has to admit that.
Will is pretty cool. I admire anyone that is passionate about their
beliefs.
Friar Broccoli
.
>> Even more insane: How can you expect to convince those of us
>> here who know how ridiculous your position is? You are making
>> your God a laughing stock. The Great Broccoli fears loosing
>> His position.
.
> Since you proceeded with the personal attacks I can only assume you
> understabd that the seal is best suited for land and water the way it
> is.
A statement of the form: "You are a fool"
is a personal attack. (I believe it can also refer to an
attack on characteristics or action of a person that are
irrelevant to the issue under discussion.)
A statement of the form: "Your argument or action is foolish"
is an attack on your position, not you.
If you can find a group of words by me above that can be
interpretted as a personal attack, I will make a clear and
unequivocal apology. I certainly had no such intention.
> This post, however, should get an award for the BEST rationalization
> ever. Congratulations evo-freak.
We have an entire family of marine mammals that superficially
operate only with flippers, but the rear section contains a
COMPLETE set of bones used by land animals for walking, right
down to the KNEE CAP. How is it a "rationalization" to say
this supports all the other evidence for the evolution of this
group from a land animal?
chris thompson
Captions have been added.
Chris
Greg G.
wrote:
Thanks. That is just how I pictured everyone except the guy in the
gray striped shirt looked inverted.
chris thompson
wrote:
> On Nov 26, 11:21 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 9:36 am, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > I have posted some pictures of the New York Howlerfest on Snapfish
> > > (free registration required, no email validation needed).
>
> > > The pics are in a group room at
>
> > >http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
>
> > > Enjoy!
>
> > > Chris
> > > I hope I got all this correct )
>
> > Nice pictures. Any chance of putting some names to the faces?
>
> Captions have been added.
>
> Chris
I have discovered that the captions are not visible in the Group Room.
If you like you can see them by going to the album Howlerfest on my
account.
Chris
chris thompson
And new and improved (i.e., corrected) captions will some silly Howler
humor have been added.
Chris
Paul J Gans
And there were no pictures of the BOOK!
--
--- Paul J. Gans
chris thompson
> John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
> >In article
> ><3750da35-de66-4f05-bbbb-51013f7c8...@x16g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
BAH. The FIRST picture in the slideshow show the book! Right there on
the table!
Chris
Mitchell Coffey
wrote:
Yep, MY copy - you can tell by the multitude of postit-tabs as with I
litter my scholarly volumes, so people will think I'm seriously
studying them. But - see here, Chris! - no one is going notice the
book, as the eye is naturally drawn to the stunningly handsome men
sitting nearby.
Mitchell
Mitchell Coffey
It's sad how your photos made all of us look fifteen years older than
we really are.
Mitchell
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well. The "Stunning" part is right. The "handsome" part is rather
debatable.
heh just kidding. You look like a fun group (for a bunch of
evolutionists)
chris thompson
And here I thought my photos made you look 5 years younger.
Sorry.
Chris
chris thompson
Actually, I really wish you had been able to attend. It would have
been a blast. And my dogs would have loved you as much as you loved
them.
In case it does not come through, even though I use bad words at you
time from time, it really is not personal. I think we would get along
well in person. In fact, I bet you would be a fine neighbor.
Chris
John Wilkins
<e3c29b5e-81f3-494f...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Mitchell Coffey <m.co...@starpower.net> wrote:
Twenty, sir.
chris thompson
wrote:
> I have posted some pictures of the New York Howlerfest on Snapfish
> (free registration required, no email validation needed).
>
> The pics are in a group room at
>
> http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Chris
> I hope I got all this correct )
As an addendum, let me add that Mitchell Coffey came down the day
before the Howlerfest. He was incredibly patient while we stopped at
various stores to stock up.
When we got home, I spent a thoroughly enjoyable evening with
Mitchell. We drank most of the beer we had earmarked for the 'fest,
and he waxed eloquently on all the people who would, were going to, or
might show up the next day. (Actually we spoke mainly of Republicans,
few of whom showed up the next day. But I did have to get more beer.)
I learned a lot from Mitchell, and I hope to have another get-together
with him.
Mitch- come up, with your family, for a boat tour of the NYC waters.
Chris
Paul J Gans
You mean that *wasn't* your father I was talking to?
After all, mine was certainly there... ;-)
Paul J Gans
>Sorry.
Those were the pictures of my father. They did make him look
five years younger.
All-seeing-I
I'm sure you guys would have placed me outside to eat with the dogs.
(I'm kidding!)
Thanks for the compliments.
.
>
> In case it does not come through, even though I use bad words at you
> time from time, it really is not personal. I think we would get along
> well in person. In fact, I bet you would be a fine neighbor.
Thanks and Same here Chris.
We all know how the internet is. We can say things here in a manor
that we would never say to a person's face.
None of it is personal.
Well. maybe Boikat would.. who knows for sure with him/her [grin]
(I'm kidding Boikat. No need to go off on one of your rants)
All-seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
Clearly that is a creature designed for land or water.
The most important question should be "Why do two seperate people make
different interpretations of evidence"?
Eric Root
> On Nov 26, 8:36 am, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have posted some pictures of the New York Howlerfest on Snapfish
> > (free registration required, no email validation needed).
>
> > The pics are in a group room at
>
> >http://rockawayhowlers.snapfish.com/snapfish
>
> > Enjoy!
>
> > Chris
> > I hope I got all this correct )
>
> Wow. Those pics looked great. Crisp and bursting with realistic color.
> Good job.
>
> Such cute dogs too.
>
> and I was happy to see veggies on the table :D
>
> origins.
Well, you're not going to convince us using any argument that is
already rebutted on the talk.origins web site, and dismissing the site
itself doesn't just fail, it totally re-fails.
Eric Root
Friar Broccoli
> On Nov 27, 6:44 am, Friar Broccoli <elia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 5:14 am, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
[snipping to reduce length]
>>> This post, however, should get an award for the BEST rationalization
>>> ever. Congratulations evo-freak.
.
>> We have an entire family of marine mammals that superficially
>> operate only with flippers, but the rear section contains a
>> COMPLETE set of bones used by land animals for walking, right
>> down to the KNEE CAP. How is it a "rationalization" to say
>> this supports all the other evidence for the evolution of this
>> group from a land animal?
.
> Clearly that is a creature designed for land or water.
I believe it is more precise to say that seals (Pinnipeds which
include walruses and so forth) are adapted to feed in water and
take advantage of the security of land (or ice platforms) for
security including for breeding (In the presence of Killer
whales, for example, seals flee for land.)
> The most important question should be "Why do two seperate people make
> different interpretations of evidence"?
This question has different answers in different contexts.
Here, I think that one of the interveners is entirely concerned
with developing a set of beliefs that are consistent with
verifiable/observable reality, while the other wishes to fit
the observations into a set of beliefs formed independently of
verifiable observations.
Ye Old One
There is no indication of design.
>
>The most important question should be "Why do two seperate people make
>different interpretations of evidence"?
Because you are an idiot.
--
Bob.
If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
Mitchell Coffey
You would have hated being there; several of us were Jews - you know,
the folks you claim killed Christ, the traditional basis of Christian
antisemitism. That's presumably the reason you attacked scientist for
wanting to resist Hitler.
Mitchell Coffey
hersheyh
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
You need to convince Ray Martinez of that. He thinks only atheists
(or idiots) believe that species can change.
> Evolution happens for the
> survival of the species on a dynamic planet.
>
> It makes more sense to believe that a creator made each "kind" of life
> which in turn filled the earth after it's own kind through variations,
What is your operational definition of "kind"? Kindergarten taxonomy?
> then it does to think everything spontaneously rose to life all by
> itself from a single molecule that in turn produced all of the
> variation that we see.
So you think there are some barriers to new "kind" (whatever that is)
formation? What would this barrier be?
>
> Going back to your skeleton;
> The skeleton is a perfect example of a 'common design' shared by many
> mammals.
In all the different "kinds" of mammal, or in only some "kinds" of
mammal? And there are even shared aspects of skeletons wrt to
reptiles and mammals, even though some have undergone considerable
morphological change. The bones of the middle ear, for example.
> It is sensible and it works despite the fact that the earth
> and everything in it is under a curse that has distorted the original
> designs strength and ability.
Distorted in what way? Chimpanzees are much stronger than humans (ask
the lady who was attacked by one). Humans are relatively weak as a
wild animals (predator or prey). And what sort of 'ability' is
distorted from the original design? Design for non-vegetarianism,
like canines and short digestive tracts in carnivores? Design that
seems adapted to escaping from carnivores? Curious minds want to know
the latest from that marvelous field of creation science.
Friar Broccoli
I suspect you wanted to reply to this:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/1aea67c286ade888
This subthread is focused on seal (pinniped) morphology.
Friar Broccoli
> On Nov 26, 11:47 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
Correction:
> On top of that we have fossil evidence that supports the genetic and
> morphologic evidence that seals and bears share a common ancestor:
The above is true but I have just learned that seals (Pinnipeds)
are more closely related to the groups that include skunks,
raccoons and weasels (including otters).