"Moscow is not Sodom!"
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
In Russia the authorities and neo-fascists are on the same side...
/P
vkar...@yahoo.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> In Russia the authorities and neo-fascists are on the same side...
>
> http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-05-27T140249Z_01_L27582164_RTRUKOC_0_US-RUSSIA-GAYS.xml
>
Well, it just goes to prove that the Russians haven't changed one bit
since their Communist tmes: they are still imperialists, trying to
impose their deranged marxist ideology (i.e., Chrsitianity and Islam)
on the anti-Christian West.
What could be wrong with a nice gay parade the way it's often done here
in USA or EU? I remember how there was a gay parade in the center of a
big Western city in the middle of an afternoon, and how thousands of
little children, walking home from school, flocked to that parade and
learned a lot of important information that made their parents very
happy. For example, what erect male organs look like. What unerect male
organs look like. What fake three-foot-long penises look like. What
anal holes look like. Waht almost-naked human bodies look like. What is
involved in sado-masochism. What the term "waterworks" means. What
simulated oral sex looks like. What simulated anal sex looks like. How
cool transsexuals look. How sex is not an expresion of love but a "cool
activity". How fun and cool it is to have sex. How fun and cool it is
to have same-gender sex. Etc. You know, the regular stuff that we all
want our little children want to learn as early as possible.
BTW, does anybody know if similar parades are held in the West by other
groups with other sexual preferences and habits, like lovers of oral
heterosexual sex, lovers of "missionary position", lovers of
"doggie-style", lovers of anal heterosexual sex, sado-masochists,
masturbators, lovers of threesomes, orgy lovers, wife-swappers, foot
fetishists, etc.
My little children, on their way from school, really need to be exposed
to as many sexual practices as possible as early as
possible...Especialy kinky ones.
It will also perform an invaluable service to the children of Muslim
and conservative Christian parents. These children are abused by their
parents into not knowing about the wonders of kinky sex. Such parades
will surely teach a lot to such hcildren and will undermine their
parents' religious beliefs. Oral sex lovers' parade will be especially
effective here.
We must break the grip that parents have over bringing up their own
children. This is not the job of parents, it's the job of the
politically correct BIg Brother government. All chidren must be
inodctrinate into the same politically correct ideology. That's what
the Western freedoms are all about. The freedom of Big Brother to
brainwash the children over the wishes of their parents. Come to think
of it, this is exactly what Bolsheviks did in the 1920s when they too
mocked Chrisitian values. You guys are right: Russian Communism isn't
dead. It simply emigrated from Russia to EU and USA.
Henry Alminas
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148757387.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Peteris Cedrins (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> In Russia the authorities and neo-fascists are on the same side...
>
> http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-05-27T140249Z_01_L27582164_RTRUKOC_0_US-RUSSIA-GAYS.xml
>
Well, it just goes to prove that the Russians haven't changed one bit
since their Communist tmes: they are still imperialists, trying to
impose their deranged marxist ideology (i.e., Chrsitianity and Islam)
on the anti-Christian West.
<much garbage snipped>
*******************
Karlamov - you are dribbling again - or, is it still?
Best - - Henry
martin
Drooling I suspect, no wonder he prefers California.
Regards,
Martin
«Pas de deux»
because it can be quoted out of context. Someone could write something
somewhere saying "so and so said [xxx]" and in that situation {out of
context} it looks terrible. The worst thing about it is that, in a
sense, it's true, because the person being quoted did really say [xxx]
but the malicious quoter won't provide the context so people draw the
wrong conclusion.
Be careful.
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148757387.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
captain.
even in the pictures we can see a proud fascist giving the hitler salute.
"Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148746301....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
captain.
<snipped>
stop talking about penises karla.
the russian protesters were fully clothed and were not doing anything other
than marching.
vkar...@yahoo.com
Then it wasn't a truely Western gay parade. NATO should send coaches
how to stage the real parades.
vkar...@yahoo.com
«Pas de deux» wrote:
> You know, VK, that sort of sarcasm you are using below is dangerous
> because it can be quoted out of context. Someone could write something
> somewhere saying "so and so said [xxx]" and in that situation {out of
> context} it looks terrible. The worst thing about it is that, in a
> sense, it's true, because the person being quoted did really say [xxx]
> but the malicious quoter won't provide the context so people draw the
> wrong conclusion.
>
> Be careful.
>
Wise point.
I should point out to morons that this was satire.
Thanks.
vkar...@yahoo.com
parades, because they hurt children and the parents' right to bring
their chidren up their way.
vkar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> > In Russia the authorities and neo-fascists are on the same side...
> >
> > http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-05-27T140249Z_01_L27582164_RTRUKOC_0_US-RUSSIA-GAYS.xml
> >
>
> Well, it just goes to prove that the Russians haven't changed one bit
> since their Communist tmes: they are still imperialists, trying to
> impose their deranged marxist ideology (i.e., Chrsitianity and Islam)
> on the anti-Christian West.
>
> What could be wrong with a nice gay parade the way it's often done here
> in USA or EU? I remember how there was a gay parade in the center of a
> big Western city in the middle of an afternoon, and how thousands of
> little children, walking home from school, flocked to that parade and
> learned a lot of important information that made their parents very
> happy. For example, what erect male organs look like. What unerect male
> organs look like. What fake three-foot-long penises look like. What
> anal holes look like. Waht almost-naked human bodies look like. What is
> involved in sado-masochism. What the term "waterworks" means. What
> simulated oral sex looks like. What simulated anal sex looks like. How
> cool transsexuals look. How sex is not an expresion of love but a "cool
> activity". How fun and cool it is to have sex. How fun and cool it is
> to have same-gender sex. Etc.
>
> BTW, does anybody know if similar parades are held in the West by other
> groups with other sexual preferences and habits, like lovers of oral
> heterosexual sex, lovers of "missionary position", lovers of
> "doggie-style", lovers of anal heterosexual sex, sado-masochists,
> masturbators, lovers of threesomes, orgy lovers, wife-swappers, foot
> fetishists, etc.
>
lora...@cs.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
It was horrible to see the picture of the russkie militia beating those
deviants.
Was pootey seriously injured in the fracas?
Maris
Peter Tatchell was there, as he always is, to discomfit totalitarian
regimes.
Maris
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
Of course it wasn't a "truly Western" gay parade -- Russia is not a
"truly Western" country. I do not expect Russia to become one (surely
it has the right to be "Eurasian" and addicted to newfangled forms of
"Oriental despotism" if it so desires?), but the events illustrate some
disturbing things about Russia (relevant to s.c.b. because Latvia saw
its first gay parade last year and is about to embark upon a second
summer of like brouhaha), and Karlamov's (Freudian?) satire is... er,
curious.
As Captain pointed out, these were fully clothed protestors
demonstrating for what they perceive as their rights -- it was an
illegal demonstration because permission for an orderly protest was not
granted.
A comparison to the commercial and occasionally rather pornographic gay
pride parades in the West is completely off the wall, Karlamov.
The logic used by those opposed to gay pride in Latvia is not very
different from the logic in Russia -- Latvia did permit the protest,
however. Though considerable ugliness surrounded the affair, it did not
escalate to this level of violence.
Violence was expected, and an effective police force must learn to deal
with it. Moscow is a much larger and much more violent city than Rīga,
and you would think that the security services would give some thought
to how this (just as you might have expected some Israeli-style
training for those charged with rescuing hostages in Beslan or at
Nord-Ost...).
There are very basic issues here, regardless of your position on gay
rights -- freedom of assembly, speech, expression, religion. Much of
what is said to justify banning this demonstration can be used to ban
_any_ demonstration. If dark-skinned "Russians" wish to demonstrate for
their rights, is the threat of violence from skinheads sufficient to
prevent them from doing so, in the interests of public order? If women
want to demonstrate, shall we ban a march because the Grand Mufti says
they should be beaten and the Patriarch growls?
But let's turn to those thousands of innocent little children Karlamov
invokes -- their march in his head is at least as disconnected from
reality as his "ironic" description of the gay protest. It's simply
bizarre to suggest that Bolshevism has migrated to the West because the
West enshrines fundamental rights -- this is a deliberate confusion of
tolerance with strange species of political correctness. Karlamov will
bend over backwards to claim that Stalin had nothing whatsoever to do
with the Russian mentality, painting some weird picture in which the
alien Bolsheviks had little effect on the Russian soul in seventy years
of more or less totalitarian rule. Suddenly there is democracy, the
church-bells ring again, and everybody staggers on along their
pilgrims' paths as though they had been frozen in a sci-fi flick.
Russian children are among the _least_ innocent children I have ever
encountered, Karlamov. Contemporary Russian society and popular culture
are highly sexualized -- not a few prime time TV shows make Turkish
_arabesk_ look Victorian and are actually redolent of the perversions
you satirize. Russian puritanism may stretch back to Tsarist times, but
after the early Bolshevik freedoms and experimentation (including the
legalization of homosexuality) were revoked, the Soviet Union
proscribed nearly all sexual discourse -- even psychology was twisted
beyond recognition and employed in Orwellian ways.
Frank Brenner, "Intrepid thought: psychoanalysis in the Soviet Union":
"Trotsky once aptly described the Stalinist attitude to matters like
abortion as combining 'the philosophy of a priest ... with the powers
of a gendarme.' But underlying the moral hypocrisy was, again, the
standpoint of 'adapting human needs to inhuman social conditions,' and
with regard to sexuality, one such condition was especially
noteworthy-the woeful inadequacy of housing. As a recent history of
Russian sexuality points out: 'Millions of people were forced to live
for years-and many throughout their entire lives-in hostels or
communal apartments, where several families shared one flat. Adult
children frequently lived in a single room with their parents. How can
one talk of sexual intimacy when everything is in view and within
earshot?' And the possibility for doing anything unconventional-e.g.,
pre-marital, extra-marital or homosexual sex-was even more hopeless.
A remark by a Moscow resident captured the grimness of having to live
this way: 'We are born in the hallway, we make love in the hallway, and
we die in the hallway.' These were the conditions that made the revival
of the 'old crap' of sexual puritanism an ideological necessity to the
Stalinist 'gendarmes.'"
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/freu-j11.shtml
Abortion later became industrial, Karlamov, and there was so much
"traditional morality" in the early 1990s that I recall a survey
showing that a majority of Russian schoolgirls thought sex in exchange
for hard currency was morally acceptable.
The idea that one is protecting Russkie kids from kink (and you
conflate homosexuality with kink) by banning a demonstration for gay
rights makes no sense at all, sorry -- you write as though you believe
that Russia is somehow unspoilt by Western decadence, and nothing could
be further from the truth. To oversimplify a bit -- Russia (and Latvia,
too, by the way) very quickly imported the juiciest forbidden fruits
from the West, many of which require preparation to make them edible.
Feminism, for instance, which accompanied the sexual revolution in the
West, was prectically non-existent except in its distorted form (women
could work _and_ slave away at home, dancing between whoredom and
motherhood into babushkadom).
Look at the discourse -- the Chief Rabbi suggested that perversions do
not have a right to exist, for example. Sorry -- perversions exist and
will always exist. They existed in the USSR, and Soviet puritanism was
akin to other repressive forms of puritanism (e.g., the Victorian
penchant for covering the legs of pianos whilst pandering young girls'
virginity).
A return to a non-existent age of innocence in the era of the Internet?
I'd love to hear how this might be accomplished, Karlamov. Many of the
gendarmes remain the same -- my wife's instructor in atheism, who
attempted to have her removed from school because she sneered when he
refused to answer when exactly Communism would arrive, became the head
of the Department of Religious Affairs and spoke burningly about
Catholic values in Latgola.
State atheism is very different from the separation of church and
state. It is the authoritarian approach that does not change in Russia.
Note the comments on how sacrilegious it was for the gays to approach
the unknown soldier -- it seems that those soldiers died so that the
thugs "can live as Russians." Technically, of course, they died for
Stalin and the Soviet Union, but even in Daugavpils the red stars on
their tombs have been replaced by Orthodox crosses (one hopes that none
of those buried there were were fervent Marxist-Leninists...).
"[What] almost-naked human bodies look like" -- my, my, Karlamov. I
guess the Hermitage should be shuttered so that the thousands of
children can be protected from having their religion undermined. Maybe
the Grand Mufti will agree.
Vsego khoroshego,
/P
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
Peter Tatchell:
"The Russian constitution guarantees the right to freedom of expression
and the right to peaceful protest. There is no legal basis for the ban.
"Mayor Luzhkov wants to over-ride the constitution. Who does he think
he is? Joseph Stalin? Someone should remind Luzhkov that the anti-gay
Soviet Union is dead. Russia is a democracy and in a democracy people
have a right to protest peacefully."
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2006/05/moscow_bans_gay_pride_parade.html
/P
Vladimir Makarenko
Shall I take "Reuters" word for "neo-fascists"? Somehow nothing in the
text about it except a claim.
Anyway, it's was a pure political provocation on the side of this gay
group. The Tomb of Unknown Soldjer is never used by any political or
whatever interest group - it's off limits by silent consensus. Why one
would need to claim its sexual orientation rights there is beyond me. If
not intentionally to cause a turmoil and a scandal.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
> sadly , in this case, they were.
>
> even in the pictures we can see a proud fascist giving the hitler salute.
You really have a problem with pictures captain. There is no such
picture there.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
> You know, VK, that sort of sarcasm you are using below is dangerous
> because it can be quoted out of context. Someone could write something
> somewhere saying "so and so said [xxx]" and in that situation {out of
> context} it looks terrible. The worst thing about it is that, in a
> sense, it's true, because the person being quoted did really say [xxx]
> but the malicious quoter won't provide the context so people draw the
> wrong conclusion.
>
> Be careful.
Now you are talking like a concerned guardian angel. What happened? Or I
understood it out of context?
VM.
Henry Alminas
udnTuW4ouTN-TZn...@comcast.com...
Waal, Vlad is right in one respect.
The land of the russkies has long historical experience
with "silent consensus". The great advantage to silent
"consensus" is that it is indeed silent - and, it is (and has
been) *that* in the land of the russkies for a damn good
reason. The silent live longer!
Best - - Henry
«Pas de deux»
" even in Daugavpils the red stars on the tombs [of Red Army soldiers
who died for Stalin and the Soviet Union]
have been replaced by Orthodox crosses (one hopes that none of those
buried there were were fervent Marxist-Leninists...).
On the contrary. I think it's cool that some fervent Marxist-Leninists
may have ended up with crosses instead of stars on their graves. It's
only a drop in the sea of redress for the tens of thousands of Balts who
sleep in crappy cemeteries {or unmarked or star-marked graves} in
Siberia. Some of my relatives included. But Holman and a few others
will tell me it was all for a good cause ...
Henry Alminas
> «Pas de deux» wrote:
>
>> You know, VK, that sort of sarcasm you are using below is dangerous
>> because it can be quoted out of context. Someone could write something
>> somewhere saying "so and so said [xxx]" and in that situation {out of
>> context} it looks terrible. The worst thing about it is that, in a
>> sense, it's true, because the person being quoted did really say [xxx]
>> but the malicious quoter won't provide the context so people draw the
>> wrong conclusion.
>>
>> Be careful.
>
> Now you are talking like a concerned guardian angel. What happened? Or I
> understood it out of context?
>
> VM.
It should be obvious to one and all that if
Karlamov is not a child then he certainly is
childlike.
Most people, with the possibly exception of
russkies, assume a protective role towards such
individuals.
Best - - Henry
Vladimir Makarenko
Don't be so cheap Henry, to claim rights for sexual tolerance on other
people grave is a deliberate gross.
VM.
«Pas de deux»
> «Pas de deux» wrote:
>
>> You know, VK, that sort of sarcasm you are using below is dangerous
>> because it can be quoted out of context. Someone could write
>> something somewhere saying "so and so said [xxx]" and in that
>> situation {out of context} it looks terrible. The worst thing about
>> it is that, in a sense, it's true, because the person being quoted
>> did really say [xxx] but the malicious quoter won't provide the
>> context so people draw the wrong conclusion.
>>
>> Be careful.
>
> Now you are talking like a concerned guardian angel. What happened? Or
> I understood it out of context?
>
> VM.
I don't idly sit by and watch as someone volunteers himself for
crucifixion.
Arguing points of political principle is one thing. It does mean one
has to encourage hara-kiri.
Eugene Holman
<kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I most certainly will not.
\EH
Asterix
>"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
>news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Here is a Video:
>> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
>> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
>>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
>>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
>death penalty to include puffs.
>LOL
>Daz
A hell of a good idea.
I should have thought of it before you did.
>>> Glad to see that even in Russia, sensible people there do not want to
>>> create another Sodom & Gomorrah as is now in Canada, Usa and Britain!!
>>> On Sat, 27 May 2006 19:45:32 +0100, Michael McCann <m1cky@(((0))).net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13526011,00.html
>>>>
>>>>The first Gay Rights march held in Moscow has been broken up by
>>>>Russian police, militant Orthodox Christians and neo-fascists.
>>>>A group of about 40 marchers, led by 28-year-old Nikolia Alexeyev,
>>>>planned to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The tomb is
>>>>symbolic of the World War Two struggle against fascism.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
The chosen venue was deliberately provocative and perhaps in bad taste.
But the controversy -- and the venom in the controversy, including
threats of violence -- had nothing do with the location, for the most
part. Luzhkov, for instance, is quoted as saying that gay parades "may
be acceptable for some kind of progressive, in some sense, countries in
the West, but it is absolutely unacceptable for Moscow, for Russia."
Romania, also a heavily Orthodox country, saw its first gay pride march
last year -- the events were permitted (though reluctantly), and some
of the neo-fascists who opposed it were fined.
http://romania.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/851.shtml
/P
lora...@cs.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
Sort of an 'in your face' kind of thing, eh?
> But the controversy -- and the venom in the controversy, including
> threats of violence -- had nothing do with the location
Actually, the picture (and text) seems to indicate that the level of
violence rose beyond the 'threat stage'. If necessary, your shouldn't
shy away from stating that the russian police were 'beating the crap'
out of their gei dissidents.
One can only hope that pootey and his poodle dog were not seriously
injured.
> for the most
> part. Luzhkov, for instance, is quoted as saying that gay parades "may
> be acceptable for some kind of progressive, in some sense, countries in
> the West, but it is absolutely unacceptable for Moscow, for Russia."
Did they ever have 'gei' mongolians in prominent positions in russian
history?
> Romania, also a heavily Orthodox country, saw its first gay pride march
> last year -- the events were permitted (though reluctantly), and some
> of the neo-fascists who opposed it were fined.
That seems anti-democratic. But then eu membership is being sought,
after all.
Most of the smurfs hidden away in their back rooms in Brussels would
hardly approve.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
> In article <%Sheg.31$Su3....@news20.bellglobal.com>, "«Pas de deux»"
> <kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> > " even in Daugavpils the red stars on the tombs [of Red Army soldiers
> > who died for Stalin and the Soviet Union]
> > have been replaced by Orthodox crosses (one hopes that none of those
> > buried there were were fervent Marxist-Leninists...).
> >
> > On the contrary. I think it's cool that some fervent Marxist-Leninists
> > may have ended up with crosses instead of stars on their graves. It's
> > only a drop in the sea of redress for the tens of thousands of Balts who
> > sleep in crappy cemeteries {or unmarked or star-marked graves} in
> > Siberia. Some of my relatives included. But Holman and a few others
> > will tell me it was all for a good cause ...
>
> I most certainly will not.
>
> \EH
First you should consider who they were, what their cause was, and
where their graves are. The graves I am talking about are in a public
park called Dubrovin's Garden -- it is the oldest park in the city
(other than the small Nevsky [now Pumpurs] Square), created by Pavel
Dubrovin on three hectares in 1882 (while Dubrovin did much to develop
the city from 1876 until his death in 1890 and is considered the
greatest mayor, organizing the first fire brigade, bank, modern market,
_gymnasium_ for females, etc., he is surely controversial to many, too:
a high-ranking Tsarist civil servant, he received a medal for his
contributions to the suppression of the January Uprising 1863-64).
The park is something everybody who lived here from the 1930s
(including my mother and uncle) remembered as the most thrilling place
of their childhood, as it contained the cinema and a café of local
renown, and with a small arena it was also a place of amusement besides
being a more formal place of beauty, with a fountain, Hungarian lilacs
and an American walnut. The placement of a rather hideous tomb --
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/672eb/6c29c/4/?o=1&i=1 (last on the
page)
-- in such a place is disliked by many. I have heard that the family of
one of the soldiers interred in Dubrovin's Garden objected and wished
the remains to be returned or buried elsewhere. Soviet ideas on how to
memorialize the War are rather inflexible, of course, and the place
became a sort of public shrine. On Victory Day, a diminishing crowd
usually heads from Slavas skvērs in 18 November (Chaussée, Red Army)
Street to this monument, where there is an eternal flame that was
turned off in the early 1990s (when gas became expensive). An outsized
Lenin (dressed for Siberia but rejected by a Siberian city as too ugly)
used to stare down at Unity Squate nearby, the last Lenin in Latvia to
fall (felled without warning in the dead of night, to discourage
protest), and the more brainwashed babushki would separate from the
column and hurl red tulips at his vacant pedestal. Then various
clergymen would address the crowd, the remaining Russian air force band
members would eke out dirges (the flame again lit for these occasions),
and the priests would flee as lesser mortals gave nostalgic but vaguely
seditious speeches concerning the élite and the price of bananas.
Politics being what they are, nobody would dare move the tomb for fear
of causing offense (and accusations about Letts digging up
anti-fascists, etc.). Civilized people respect graves, and I expect the
Legionnaires' and Germans' (and Turks'!) graves here to stand
unmolested (they are desecrated, frequently). We've discussed this
before in threads about the War, Gintai -- I'm afraid I do not see how
you might get any redress by wishing ill upon the dead. These were
soldiers who fell capturing ("liberating") Daugavpils from the Germans,
during whose occupation a large portion of the population was murdered
(about a quarter of the inhabitants being Jewish, and numerous Roma
slaughtered on Golden Hill).
The Soviet occupation resumed, of course -- but these were _soldiers_,
Gintai, not Chekists. Young men from Bog knows where in Russia,
fighting the "Great Patriotic War" -- see Ribakov for a good portrayal
of the change in psyche the war brought about. Do you really think such
people knew _anything_ about the Baltics, other than what the
Moustachioed One told them? As to political philosophies -- personally,
I am always disturbed by retroactive, vitriolic blanket condemnations
(for example, by those who say that the Latvian Bolsheviks who were
murdered by Stalin "got what they deserved"). Criminals were and are
criminals, and should have been and should be punished -- for their
acts. But many of the Communists were indeed idealists, not rarely
themselves disillusioned, if misguided -- can we, more than half a
century later and in a different world, really judge people who were
often trapped between at least two evils?
Geriausio,
/P
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
lora...@cs.com wrote:
> Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> > The chosen venue was deliberately provocative and perhaps in bad taste.
>
> Sort of an 'in your face' kind of thing, eh?
>
> > But the controversy -- and the venom in the controversy, including
> > threats of violence -- had nothing do with the location
>
> Actually, the picture (and text) seems to indicate that the level of
> violence rose beyond the 'threat stage'. If necessary, your shouldn't
> shy away from stating that the russian police were 'beating the crap'
> out of their gei dissidents.
You spotted that -- I had meant to continue by saying "prior to the
event." In other words, what I mean to stress is that the event could
have, and should have, been given a permit for another location. But
even after the event, the sacrilegious aspect of the venue isn't the
focus -- the point of those opposed (the majority) is that gays
shouldn't be allowed to march _anywhere_.
> One can only hope that pootey and his poodle dog were not seriously
> injured.
>
> > for the most
> > part. Luzhkov, for instance, is quoted as saying that gay parades "may
> > be acceptable for some kind of progressive, in some sense, countries in
> > the West, but it is absolutely unacceptable for Moscow, for Russia."
>
> Did they ever have 'gei' mongolians in prominent positions in russian
> history?
>
> > Romania, also a heavily Orthodox country, saw its first gay pride march
> > last year -- the events were permitted (though reluctantly), and some
> > of the neo-fascists who opposed it were fined.
>
> That seems anti-democratic. But then eu membership is being sought,
> after all.
> Most of the smurfs hidden away in their back rooms in Brussels would
> hardly approve.
If you followed the link -- the neo-fascists, who had no permit, threw
rocks and a torch.
Situations like these _do_ require care. It is obvious that allowing
activists and thugs to gather in the same spot is a recipe for trouble,
no?
I'm not arguing that there aren't legitimate security concerns.
Frankly, these events in countries that are, or where many pretend to
be, "socially conservative" (in a strange post-Soviet way) are pretty
obviously counter-productive. In Latvia, they got a homophobic marriage
amendment for their troubles. From what I've been reading, most in the
Russian gay community didn't think Russia was ready for this. It
wasn't.
Still, that doesn't change the fact that people should have the right
to protest. You could say that Russia isn't ready to pull out of
Ichkeria, either...
/P
vkar...@yahoo.com
> > captain. wrote:
> > > <vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1148757387.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > <snipped>
> > >
> > > stop talking about penises karla.
> > >
> > > the russian protesters were fully clothed and were not doing anything other
> > > than marching.
> > >
> >
> > how to stage the real parades.
>
> Of course it wasn't a "truly Western" gay parade -- Russia is not a
> "truly Western" country. I do not expect Russia to become one (surely
> it has the right to be "Eurasian" and addicted to newfangled forms of
> "Oriental despotism" if it so desires?), but the events illustrate some
> disturbing things about Russia (relevant to s.c.b. because Latvia saw
> its first gay parade last year and is about to embark upon a second
> summer of like brouhaha), and Karlamov's (Freudian?) satire is... er,
> curious.
>
> As Captain pointed out, these were fully clothed protestors
> demonstrating for what they perceive as their rights -- it was an
> illegal demonstration because permission for an orderly protest was not
> granted.
>
> A comparison to the commercial and occasionally rather pornographic gay
> pride parades in the West is completely off the wall, Karlamov.
>
First of all, the fact that the small "illegal" demonstration featured
well-dressed and well-behaved people doesn't mean that the originally
planned big parade would have been equally innocent.
Certainly, if there is job or real estate discrimination against gays -
this should be demonstrated against. And certainly any acts of violence
against gays should be condemned and demonstrated against.
But that should be done in a civilized manner. Pornographic displays
just don't lend credence to the cause of anti-discrimination. yet, this
pornography has become trademark of the main Western gay parades, even
the ones whose alleged purpose id to protest discrimination.
In general, we shouldn't forget that homosexuality is nothing more than
a form of a sexual expression. Some men can't conceive having sex
without a "bondage and submission" involved, some men can't conceive
having sex without a foot fetishism involved, some men can't conceive
having sex with a woman. I am not criticizing their behaviour. I am
willing to believe that it is either genetic or at least deeply
psychologically rooted. Let two (or more) consenting adults do whatever
they please in the privacy of their bedroom (or a bathhouse).
I don't know how the fact that certain men are foot fetishists, gay or
into S&M becomes public knowledge, and they become victims of job
discrimination, but when that happens - I agree that foot fetishists,
gays and S&M people should protest.
But here in US and in many EU countries gay parades have long since
stopped being about protest. They are now about pornography,
promiscuity and even pedophilia. The notorious North American Man/Boy
Love Association (NAMBLA) is extremely active in these parades. Their
main and only point is to advertise the crime of statutory rape.
I personally don't want to have my children come near these rapists and
don't want rape advertised by a parade.
If heterosexual men formed their own North American Man/Little Girl
Love Association and marched in parades, I would be even more opposed
to them. However, curiously enough, I have never heard of such a hetero
organization, while among the gay community it has a very large
support.
Just as I have heard of very few hetero baths, where AIDS was freely
spread, while the numerous gay baths are responsible for creating the
whole AIDS epidemic.
A lot of people just don't believe in responsible behaviour.
Moreover, I don't want my children to be exposed to any kind of
pornography or near-pornography. Nor do I want them to be taught that
gay sex or S&M or foot fetishism is fun and totally natural. If they
grow up to be any of the above - I won't disown them nor will I change
my love for them. But I want to make sure that they come to this
activity out of inner needs and not because of societal influence.
Moreover, I do understand deeply religious people, whose religious
feelings towards homosexuality are much more extreme than mine. I don't
want the society to adopt these extreme views but I respect the right
of these religious people to protect their children from exposure to
homosexuality.
Correct me if I am wrong, but in early days the gay parades in USA and
EU were also very decent. But with time, they "degradated" into
pornography.
So, if it were up to me, I would permit and encourage orderly and
decently behaved demonstrations by various sexual minorities to
protest discrimination or physical violence, but I would forbid all
demonstrations of various sexual activities and preferences dome for
the fun of it.
Anal and oral sex belong in the bedroom not in the public square or
street.
Even the most famous Russian gay celebrtites, like Boris Moiseev, have
come out against gay parades. Not because they are ashamed of being gay
but because they don't believe that sexual preferences and activities
belong in public.
>
> Russian children are among the _least_ innocent children I have ever
> encountered, Karlamov. Contemporary Russian society and popular culture
> are highly sexualized -- not a few prime time TV shows make Turkish
> _arabesk_ look Victorian and are actually redolent of the perversions
> you satirize.
>
That's a lie. I bet I receive the very same Russian channels that you
do in Latvia. So, tell me which shows on which major Russian networks
are pornographic.
Russian TV morals and standards are no different from those in the rest
of Europe. In fact, they were conciously copied in the 1990s from
Western Europe, as was pretty much everything else.
>
> Russian puritanism may stretch back to Tsarist times, but
> after the early Bolshevik freedoms and experimentation (including the
> legalization of homosexuality) were revoked, the Soviet Union
> proscribed nearly all sexual discourse -- even psychology was twisted
> beyond recognition and employed in Orwellian ways.
>
That's true. But not much relevant to our discussion as to what
children in Russia, USA and EU should and shouldn't be exposed to
today.
Moreover, why do you use "but" in that sentence? What you said was
esssentially this:
"Russian puritanism was the order of the day in Tsarist times, but it
was also the order of the day in the Soviet Union."
I think you meant "and" not "but" here. (no pun intended)
«Pas de deux»
news:1148855048.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Civilized people respect graves
Moi aussi.
> I do not see how you might get any redress by wishing ill upon the
> dead.
I don't wish any ill on the dead. But I'm not going to get distraught
because somebody took a star off a grave and put a cross on it instead.
Nobody asked my relatives deported to Siberia what kind of grave marker
they wanted. And while we are on the subject of death and dying, one of
the favourite tricks of the Russian authories who ran the gulags was to
not allow the visit of a priest to a dying Catholic (Balt, Pole,
Belarusian, Ukrainain, German) who had requested it.
These were _soldiers_, not Chekists.
Yeah, and I feel sorry for them. It's Stalin and the bolševiks that
caused them to be conscripted and to die far from home without their
relatives around to make funeral arrangements.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
So things should be banned because of what they _might_ be? That's
brilliant, Karlamov. I guess we can add constitutional law to the many
areas of your expertise that you've informed us of. How pathetically
Soviet -- we could ban Muslim demonstrations because they might
advocate fanatical Islamism, women's demonstrations because they might
urge a feminism that threatens the family, Krishnas because they
undermine the established religion...
> Certainly, if there is job or real estate discrimination against gays -
> this should be demonstrated against. And certainly any acts of violence
> against gays should be condemned and demonstrated against.
I invite you to Google the plethora of information available about what
gays in Russia face.
> But that should be done in a civilized manner.
Google for information on other such events in the former USSR and its
vassal states. I think you'll find that the gays tend to be quite
civilized, the counter-demonstrators not. In Latvia, a woman struck a
minister who had participated in the event with an icon.
> Pornographic displays
> just don't lend credence to the cause of anti-discrimination. yet, this
> pornography has become trademark of the main Western gay parades, even
> the ones whose alleged purpose id to protest discrimination.
Why do you keep talking about the West? Should these things be nipped
in the bud in order to protect Mother Russia from decadent Western
influences?
I'm curious, Karlamov -- have you never bothered to read about the gay
movement in the United States, seeing how you are a Californian? Don't
you think that society is better off now than it was prior to this
movement (even allowing for your dislikes)?
Oh, okay -- and who is going to decide who's out for the fun of it?
Luzhkov? The Grand Mufti? You? And how oppressed does a group have to
be before its demonstration is sufficiently un-fun?
> Anal and oral sex belong in the bedroom not in the public square or
> street.
These demonstrators threatened to engage in anal sex in the street,
yes?
> Even the most famous Russian gay celebrtites, like Boris Moiseev, have
> come out against gay parades. Not because they are ashamed of being gay
> but because they don't believe that sexual preferences and activities
> belong in public.
Should we ban holding hands, too? Between heterosexuals also -- and
maybe between parents and children; wouldn't want to encourage incest
in the streets.
I think you are grossly unfair in your inability to separate affection
from sexual acts and especially sexual acts you consider deviant. You
seem to assume that gay pride automatically implies flaunting acts --
it doesn't. Your suggestion that homosexuality is merely about what
happens in the bedroom is simply wrong -- heterosexuality isn't only
about particular practices, either. Look around you, Karlamov -- not
just at popular culture (saturated with heterosexuality) but also at
deeper expressions of love. Read something meaningful, like _Young
Robert Duncan: Portrait of the Poet as Homosexual in Society_ by Ekbert
Faas -- you'll find that some of the earliest liberated gays saw their
plight as similar to that of blacks and Jews, for good reason. To
restrict your view of homosexuality (or your preferred concealment) to
the bedroom is like confining a discussion of race to melanin.
> > Russian children are among the _least_ innocent children I have ever
> > encountered, Karlamov. Contemporary Russian society and popular culture
> > are highly sexualized -- not a few prime time TV shows make Turkish
> > _arabesk_ look Victorian and are actually redolent of the perversions
> > you satirize.
> >
>
> That's a lie. I bet I receive the very same Russian channels that you
> do in Latvia. So, tell me which shows on which major Russian networks
> are pornographic.
_Okno_, for example. The last time I watched it, it was about a painter
who mixes semen with his paint for the murals in Moscow clubs,
featuring details about how he obtains the semen with the aid of his
lover, his wife simmering beside him. It is obviously derivative of
Jerry Springer but often more explicit, a contrived talk show intended
to shock.
But I'm not referring to the pornographic per se -- I am talking about
the type and style of eroticism that pervades a culture. The _sho_ I
saw the other night featured numerous singers of indeterminate gender
singing somewhat raunchy songs, and in its crude (to my mind unerotic)
sexuality it reminded me of the _arabesk_ many young people adore in
Turkey.
I'm not complaining, Karlamov -- cultures develop as they do. Russian
pop tends to take some Western elements and mix them with an element
that is peculiarly Russian. It ain't subtle, and you must know that!
> Russian TV morals and standards are no different from those in the rest
> of Europe. In fact, they were conciously copied in the 1990s from
> Western Europe, as was pretty much everything else.
This makes you sad? Would you have preferred to keep Soviet "morals and
standards"? Just a question, not an accusation.
"Morals and standards" differ within Western Europe, too, Karlamov --
try Italian TV!
Russia (and the former satellites and Soviet "republics") have their
own taste -- note the popularity of Latin American telenovelas, for
example.
Russian crime series, obviously influenced by Western crime series, are
about Russian crime, of course -- that makes them very different, and
the better ones are also different in style.
An example of the borderline pornographic is t.A.T.u., of course -- the
concept was developed by studying schoolgirl porn, in fact. Image and
concept are everything in this case; the form is imported in its
entirety -- their image is _everything_ (the girls are not lesbians but
play lesbians to appeal to men, etc.) They are extremely popular in
Russia (having won the People's Choice Award), though, so they do
strike a chord.
> > Russian puritanism may stretch back to Tsarist times, but
> > after the early Bolshevik freedoms and experimentation (including the
> > legalization of homosexuality) were revoked, the Soviet Union
> > proscribed nearly all sexual discourse -- even psychology was twisted
> > beyond recognition and employed in Orwellian ways.
> >
>
> That's true. But not much relevant to our discussion as to what
> children in Russia, USA and EU should and shouldn't be exposed to
> today.
>
> Moreover, why do you use "but" in that sentence? What you said was
> esssentially this:
>
> "Russian puritanism was the order of the day in Tsarist times, but it
> was also the order of the day in the Soviet Union."
>
> I think you meant "and" not "but" here. (no pun intended)
I used "and" to question the nature and continuity of this puritanism.
At least superficially, a lot of puritanism is based in religion --
that was obviously untrue in the USSR, which was officially atheist
(though many people continued to be religious, of course).
It would be interesting if you could abandon your incessant and
strident defense of everything Russo-Serbo-Soviet to contribute
substantive views -- you conveniently snipped the part of my post where
I try address puritanism as it exists in Russia, the former USSR, and
the former vassal states. Your tendency to dilute specifics to try to
cover the globe (in your weird little personal cold war) dilutes all
substance. You have tried to bring big, bad AmeriKKKa into almost every
thread in this forum; I am sorry to disappoint you, but America does
not dominate our thoughts. In fact, that is a fundamental difference
between the EU and NATO and the Russo-Soviet Empire, akin to the
differences Gintas pointed out -- we are participants in these
structures, not oppressed subjects.
If you insist upon globalizing the subject, consider some of the
differences between European countries and the US, at least -- we are
not terrified of Janet Jackson's titty, and most films are shown in an
unexpurgated form on broadcast TV (not to mention cable). Like the USSR
(but very differently), the US has always had a fluctuating but
powerful current of puritanism -- for example, the gorgeous statues in
Union Staion in Washington were covered up by prudes. Whether such
concealment (which is accompanied by the world's largest porn industry
and wildly popular subcultures that can be utterly pornographic, like
those of rap) "protects children" or infantilizes them at least into
their 20s (students _asking_ for "dorm mothers") is an open question.
Part of my point is that emphasizing an innocence in Russia that needs
to be protected is ridiculous -- sorry, but I stand by my contention
that post-Soviet societies are among the least innocent societies in
the world. Totalitarian puritanism was a mask for dysfunction -- I
really don't want to provoke one of your weird sovdefenses by pointing
out that one of Russia's major exports is women. What Russia _is_ often
innocent of is respect, especially self-respect. Some of this applies
to the Baltics, too -- in large part because of the Russo-Soviet
occupation. Many people think in a red-brown way -- not just the
"nationalist" (neo-fascist) thugs, but the apparatchiks. I mentioned
the former atheism teacher, but that is but one of many personal
experiences -- add, for instance, the Party functionaries who would now
like to drive schoolchildren to church on national holidays, just as
they used to drive them to May Day celebrations.
You call Western Europe anti-religious -- I call it secular. Its
secularism is different from American secularism because most people in
Europe are no longer religious (Canada resembles Europe). The USSR was
anti-religious, rather than secular -- we are mostly talking about the
hangover of authoritarianism, not a "traditional society." The
authoritarianism is what affected respect and self-respect the most.
The resultant insecurities are nectar for the thugs -- it is no
accident that most of the neo-fascists ("nationalists," extremists)
share the same hatreds of the same "others." Hatred for gays even tends
to bring the Russian and Latvian extreme right together in Latvia.
Intolerance for gays is very obviously often accompanied by racism (the
widespread existence of which you appear to be in denial of),
ethnocentric chauvinism, and other diseases common to that part of the
political spectrum where red meets brown. Most people do not approve
the extremists, but it is very clearly dangerous when mainstream
political and religious leaders encourage them. Blind yourself to it if
you must, Karlamov.
Regards,
/P
lora...@cs.com
Thank you for your efforts to allow geiism to grow and flourish in
russia, peetey.
With more efforts such as yours, russia's neighbors will be accorded
peace ever sooner.
Dmitry
captain. wrote:
> <vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1148757387.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> <snipped>
>
> stop talking about penises karla.
It is anti-democratic to stop somebody to express their area of
affection. Besides, it gets more entertaining as it goes along.
>
> the russian protesters were fully clothed and were not doing anything other
> than marching.
The rest are Vkarlamov's imagination and fantasies. I trust he has
listed them all.
Asterix
vkar...@yahoo.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> vkar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Russian TV morals and standards are no different from those in the rest
> > of Europe. In fact, they were conciously copied in the 1990s from
> > Western Europe, as was pretty much everything else.
>
> This makes you sad?
>
Where did you get that? Having reading comprehension problems? Or maybe
you project your own resentment towards Western Europe? I assure you I
like French and Italian cultures a lot.
Sorry for having no time to respond to the rest of your latest
dissertation in full.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
vkar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> > vkar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > Russian TV morals and standards are no different from those in the rest
> > > of Europe. In fact, they were conciously copied in the 1990s from
> > > Western Europe, as was pretty much everything else.
> >
> > This makes you sad?
> >
>
> Where did you get that? Having reading comprehension problems? Or maybe
> you project your own resentment towards Western Europe? I assure you I
> like French and Italian cultures a lot.
I noted that this was a question, not an accusation.
> Sorry for having no time to respond to the rest of your latest
> dissertation in full.
Zut alors! Actually, you had promised some time ago to respond to my
earlier lengthy response to your lengthy response to our discussion in
another thread --
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.baltics/msg/558ca03465d36237?hl=en&
You are, of course, under no obligation to respond -- you are better
off running around taking silly little pot shots (always drag in the
AmeriKKKans and the Nazis!) and accusing others of demagoguery. That is
where your talents lie -- only even these talents are suspect, to put
it mildly; as Zatoichi observed, you lack talent even as a troll,
Karlamov.
Regards,
/P
MTRP™
> as Zatoichi observed, you lack talent even as a troll,
> Karlamov.
Nice logic puzzle, Petya.
State of affair: Troll Z claims that K lacks talent even as a troll.
Problem: Is K a troll?
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
Z is not a troll. That his view is considerably more balanced than K's
is evident from the fact that he is also quite critical of Croatia. K
has dragged every topic he has touched into the inarable inane, and
everybody here can see that (with the possible exception of you and a
couple of your droogs).
Vsego khoroshego,
/P
Asterix
Revolutionary Ideas
> On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:38:31 GMT, "Daz" <Khal...@lube.obe.edu> wrote:
> >"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
> >news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> Here is a Video:
> >> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>
> >> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
> >> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
> >>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
> >>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>
> >Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
> >death penalty to include puffs.
> >LOL
> >Daz
>
> A hell of a good idea.
> I should have thought of it before you did.
Hetero swine, hetero pervert, hetero fornicator, hetero terrorist you better
kill yourself by thrusting your filthy head into the cunts of your
fornicating whores and by eating their shit and drinking their piss. All
hetero bandits like you should be nuked.
Let Heterosexuals Die from Calamities
African and islamic countries are homophobic. So when AIDS, earthquakes,
wars and other calamities strike them, don't help them. Let them die. Let
heteros die because by helping them, you will help your enemies and your
oppressors to oppress you more. You will save your oppressors and give them
the chance to attack and oppress you more and again. Therefore don't help
them. Let heteros die.
More than 90% of AIDS cases in the world are heterosexual ones. Let heteros
die of AIDS. Let AIDS remove those hetero viruses and hetero pests. AIDS,
earthquakes and other calamities are the anti-viruses to eliminate and
reduce the heterosexual viruses and heterosexual pests. Let those hetero
fornicators get destroyed. They would otherwise spread their filth in the
world.
Let women chain heterosexual men, lead them like animals, whip them and
strike them with their needle heel shoes. Let women urinate and defecate on
heterosexual men. They will like it because it is in the nature of
heterosexual men to live under women's cunts. For women's cunts they will be
on their knees and crawl like an animal.
Countries and States that oppress gays are terrorist states. They should be
attacked like Afghanistan and Irak. They have no right to exist in a modern
civilized world. The Vatican, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, Namibia,
Nigeria, Malaysia, Poland, etc are terrorist states. They deserve the
treatment reserved for terrorist states.
Hetero pervert, you are rotting the world. All hetero bandits, hetero
terrorists and hetero fornicators should be nuked. The world will be better
without those hetero shit and hetero pests.
Revolutionary Ideas
> On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:38:31 GMT, "Daz" <Khal...@lube.obe.edu> wrote:
> >"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
> >news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> Here is a Video:
> >> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>
> >> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
> >> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
> >>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
> >>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>
> >Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
> >death penalty to include puffs.
> >LOL
> >Daz
>
> A hell of a good idea.
> I should have thought of it before you did.
Hetero swine, hetero pervert, hetero fornicator, hetero terrorist you better
kill yourself by thrusting your filthy head into the cunts of your
fornicating whores and by eating their shit and drinking their piss. All
hetero bandits like you should be nuked.
The New Revelation to Mankind: The Crime of Heterosexuality: Reasons to
hate heterosexuality. We hate heterosexuality because: heterosexuality is
vicious; heterosexuality is criminal; heterosexuality is dirty;
heterosexuality is disgusting; heterosexuality is nauseating;
heterosexuality is repulsive; heterosexuality is bestial; heterosexuality
is sick; heterosexuality is sinful.
We hate heterosexuality because the original sin was committed by two
heterosexuals, Adam and Eve.
Because heterosexuals are rotting society and the world.
We hate heterosexuals because: heterosexuals are thieves; heterosexuals are
liars. Because heterosexuals use children to justify all their vices and
lust. Because heterosexuals commit most crimes. Because heterosexuality is
criminal.
We hate heterosexuality because: heterosexuality is dirty, disgusting,
vicious, sick , sinful and criminal.
Heterosexuals must pay for what they have done to others for millenia.
Heterosexuality must be declared illegal. Any heterosexual practising
heterosexuality should be condemned to death.
Let's see if heterosexuals become better people or worse.
Revolutionary Ideas
> On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:38:31 GMT, "Daz" <Khal...@lube.obe.edu> wrote:
> >"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
> >news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> Here is a Video:
> >> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>
> >> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
> >> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
> >>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
> >>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>
> >Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
> >death penalty to include puffs.
> >LOL
> >Daz
>
> A hell of a good idea.
> I should have thought of it before you did.
Hetero fornicator, hetero terrorist, you have been unmasked. FBI, CIA, NSA,
Interpol, Scotland Yard have detected and blacklisted you because you are a
terrorist.
Your internet service provider is "Shaw Residential Internet". You are
posting from Canada or thru the canadian ISP.
Revolutionary Ideas
> On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:38:31 GMT, "Daz" <Khal...@lube.obe.edu> wrote:
> >"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
> >news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> Here is a Video:
> >> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>
> >> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
> >> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
> >>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
> >>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>
> >Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
> >death penalty to include puffs.
> >LOL
> >Daz
>
> A hell of a good idea.
> I should have thought of it before you did.
Hetero swine, hetero pervert, hetero fornicator, hetero terrorist you better
kill yourself by thrusting your filthy head into the cunts of your
fornicating whores and by eating their shit and drinking their piss. All
hetero bandits like you should be nuked.
Heterosexuals Burn in Hell
God hates heterosexuals
God destroys the heterosexual brothels
Heterosexuals want only to fornicate. They are motivated by vice, lust and
perversion. Their houses are like brothels. Their houses are filthy. God is
angry with them. That's why God had destroyed those heterosexual brothels.
Two of his means to punish heterosexuals are by earthquakes and floods.
In the last century all earthquakes and floods occurred in countries and
regions where heterosexuality was predominant. This shows that God punishes
heterosexuals for their vice, lust, perversion and wickedness.
In future, God will destroy many more heterosexual brothels by earthquakes
and other methods. Another method God uses to punish heterosexuals is by
cancer. Most people afflicted by cancer are heterosexual.
Disgust of heterosexuality
Without copulation everything falls down
A judge has granted divorce to a woman because her husband is impotent.
This means that without copulation everything falls down. All feelings of
heterosexuals depend only on sex. Without copulation everything turns to
ashes. Therefore heterosexual relationships are like prostitution. In fact
heterosexuals are disgusting. They think only of fornicating. They use
children to hide their vices and perversions.
In holy books it is said that wars and earthquakes are punishments from
God. God punishes mankind by wars and earthquakes. Why? Because
heterosexuals have turned this world into a great brothel with millions of
smaller brothels in it. God makes wars to destroy all those heterosexual
brothels. Examples: Kosovo, Turkey, Chechnya, Vietnam, Africa, etc.
Heterosexuals are sex addicts and sexoholic (like alcoholic). With viagra
they will go via grave - to hell.
God punishes heterosexuals
Somebody says that you should not speak in God's name. Heterosexuals like
to speak in God's name. They say that God dislikes homosexuality. God will
condemn them for saying wrong things in his name. Jesus Christ never talked
about homosexuality. He told people to love one another, like gays are
doing. Jesus Christ himself was never interested in women sexually. He wept
for Lazarus and he said about St. John that he was the disciple he loved.
Jesus loves his father whereas male heterosexuals dislike their fathers.
Male heterosexuals are often slaves of women. Jesus Christ was probably gay
according to his behavior and feelings. He condemned heterosexuals many
times. He said that misfortunes would fall not only on them but also on
their children.
Some people like to cite St. Paul. But St. Paul was not a good man. He
was a bad man. He was a violent man. He was a homophobe and full of hate. He
was probably an ugly man as most homophobes are. After he had a vision of
Christ he began to change. It was after undergoing many sufferings and dying
for Christ that he became a "saint". The word of St. Paul cannot be taken as
God's word because on earth he was not good enough to enter Heaven. He had
to die for God to expiate his sins first. He too was a sinner as all
heterosexuals are. Heterosexuals are the descendants of Adam and Eve who
were sinners and of Cain, the murderer and sinner. That was why Adam and Eve
were expelled from paradise. Their sinful and criminal genes have been
transmitted to heterosexuals of today. Therefore in heterosexuals there are
sinful and criminal genes.
In Sodom and Gomorrah there were many more heterosexuals. God had
destroyed the two towns because of the perversions and wickedness of
heterosexuals. They committed crimes, rapes, sadisms, thefts, vices,
idolatry, etc. God had said that he would not destroy those town if there
were some good persons. But there were not and most of those bad people
were heterosexuals. Again in the period of Noah God punished heterosexuals
by the flood.
God punishes heterosexuals by wars also. In the times of Jesus almost all
of the inhabitants of Jerusalem were heterosexuals. Nevertheless Jesus
prophesized its destruction. In the bible St. Luke and others write about
what Jesus said:
"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that it
will soon be destroyed. .....For those will be "The days of Punishment". How
terrible it will be in those days for pregnant women and for mothers with
little babies! Terrible distress will come upon this land and God's
punishment will fall on this people. Some will be killed by the sword, and
others will be taken as prisoners to all countries; and the heathen will
trample over Jerusalem until their time is up."
History recorded that it happened in 70 A.D and 75,000 Jews were killed by
the Romans in 5 days. Jerusalem was destroyed.
In the days of the prophet Jeremia, i.e, 600 B.C, Jerusalem was inhabited
by heterosexuals. God, through Jeremia, had warned them of their wickedness.
They had not changed and Jerusalem was destroyed and burnt by the
Babylonians in 583 B.C. The Jews were taken as prisoners to Babylon. They
had to walk a very long distance (1500 kms), many in chains. It was after 40
years that they were liberated.
God does not like heterosexuality. Saint John in his Revelation (14)
writes "The 144,000 people stood before the throne; they were singing a new
song, which only they could learn. They are the only ones who have been
redeemed. They are the men who have kept themselves pure by not having
sexual relations with women." Saint John is the spokesman of God. He
considers heterosexuality as dirty, impure and sinful. He considers
heterosexuality as something that corrupts and soils men and women
physically, morally and spiritually. Saint John is a greater saint than Saul
(whom christians call st. Paul). Saint John is the only apostle who did not
die in a violent way. About Saint John, Jesus Christ replied to Peter "If I
wish to keep him alive till I return to judge the world, it's not your
business." This shows how Jesus Christ loves Saint John.
Moreover, the Virgin Mary appeared many times and warned mankind (mostly
heterosexuals) that God would punish them by wars and earthquakes if they
remain wicked and vicious, if they run after material wealth without caring
for others.
God considers heterosexuals as sinners. He told them that it was very
difficult to enter Heaven. God does not like heterosexuality. That was why
Saint Mary remained a Virgin.
Revolutionary Ideas
> On Sun, 28 May 2006 15:38:31 GMT, "Daz" <Khal...@lube.obe.edu> wrote:
> >"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
> >news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >> Here is a Video:
> >> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>
> >> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
> >> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
> >>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
> >>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>
> >Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
> >death penalty to include puffs.
> >LOL
> >Daz
>
> A hell of a good idea.
> I should have thought of it before you did.
Hetero swine, hetero pervert, hetero fornicator, hetero terrorist you better
kill yourself by thrusting your filthy head into the cunts of your
fornicating whores and by eating their shit and drinking their piss. All
hetero bandits like you should be nuked.
Heterosexual Terrorism and Heterosexual Dictatorship
Heterosexual people are terrorists. They have always attacked and agressed
people. They have always molested, bullied and criticised others. When the
others criticise them, they threaten them. They want to silence them. They
do not accept criticism. They claim the right and the freedom to attack and
criticise others but they refuse others this same right to criticise them.
Heterosexual people terrorize others by violence and repression. They
terrorize people also by passing discriminatory laws against others. This
heterosexual terrorism and dictatorship have been legalised and
institutionalized. There is something common in heterosexual people,
terrorists and religious extremists and fanatics. Their psychologies are
more or less the same.
Heterosexual people are like dictators and religious fanatics. They do not
accept that people question and criticise them. They are tyrannical. They
want to make people believe that heterosexuality cannot be questionned,
analyzed, criticised and challenged. This shows that heterosexuals are
totalitarian.
Heterosexual people have oppressed others for centuries and if we suggest
making them feel for only a week (or even a day) what they have done to
others, they rant and threaten with violence. This confirms the terrorist
nature and mentality of heterosexual people. They are the source of all
evils in this world. The only solution is to remove them from the world.
All hetero bandits, hetero pigs, hetero fornicators, hetero perverts, hetero
fanatics
and hetero murderers should be condemned to death. The world will be a
better place without those hetero shit.
Heterosexual people are terrorists. They like to resort to violence. They
don't care about children. They just use children as an arm and a shield to
justify and defend their lustful and lascivious heterosexual desires.
All dictators and terrorists are heterosexual.
The talibans who were dictatorial and who tortured women were also
heterosexual. All those black dictators of african origin are heterosexual.
Heterosexuals have always been on the offensive. They have always attacked
others without good arguments. Their attacks are based on lies, violence,
vulgarity and injustice. Gays and other groups of people have always
been on the defensive. This is why heterosexuals have become arrogant and
tyrannical. Gays and other groups of people should strike back more often.
They should counter attack They should be more on the offensive also. In
fact it is heterosexuals who have not respected others. They have oppressed
others. The others have the right to strike back. Heterosexuals have always
acted like terrorists. This is Heterosexual Terrorism. They should be
condemned.
Five articles are reproduced below to show how heterosexuals are murderous,
abnormal, perverted, sinful and dirty.
Heterosexuals are beasts and filthy
Heterosexuals like to criticise others when they have themselves many more
faults, defects, vices and perversions.
Heterosexuals are monsters. In 1999, in a few days heterosexuals committed
many monstrous crimes. In Egypt a man stabbed the lover of his wife 300
times and then cut his head. In Israel a man set fire to the house of his
wife, killing his wife and his children. In atlanta, USA a man killed his
wife and children and then killed 9 other people.
Heterosexuals are beasts. Heterosexuality is bestiality.
Some time ago, in belgium, a pastor and his daughter with whom he had
an incestuous relationship killed 10 people. 5 were members of their
family. The two heterosexuals got rid of their victims by dissolving their
bodies in acid. The heterosexual man was a pastor and a theology teacher.
In Gloucester, Great Britain, frederick and rosemary West who were
husband and wife, killed and buried 18 persons. Some were their children.
In the eighties, a heterosexual man in california raped, tortured and
killed more than 15 women. the man took sadistic pleasures in seeing the
women suffered. One of his methods was to cut them with an electric saw.
The man took pleasure in seeing the women shouting in terrible pain.
Several years ago in South America (Colombia) a heterosexual man raped
and killed more than 100 girls.
In France the parents of a 5 year old boy martyrized the little boy
for years. They beated him and imprisoned him in a little cage. They took
pleasure in seeing the little boy suffered.
A few years ago in France a Head of school killed the prostitute he was
frequenting because the prostitute no longer wanted him.
There are many other cases of heterosexual atrocities.
Every week (sometimes every day) in the media of the world you can read and
hear about heinous crimes committed by heterosexuals.
Heterosexuals like to brag and threaten people about many things. Then for
offences and crimes they must be punished more severely because they
have no extenuating circumstances.
There are only three possibilities for them. Either they are shut in
psychiatric hospitals or they are shut in prisons or they are executed.
It is not because many parents are heterosexual that they are perfect. Many
parents and heterosexuals want only to satisfy their vicious desires.
Children are just the result of their vices. It is not that because
something is necessary that it is perfect. Excrement is necessary and it is
not perfect. Heterosexuals are like excrement. They are not perfect, they
are disgusting and wicked.
Heterosexuality is no longer necessary to have children. Artificial
Insemination is replacing it.
Some heterosexuals say that they have to fornicate to ensure the survival
of humankind. Their argument does not convince at all. First we do not need
so many children on this earth. On the contrary it will be better if they
stop copulating and fornicating. There will be less vices and less problems
caused by heterosexuals and overpopulation. If those heterosexuals stop
copulating and do not have children we will not regret at all. We will
rejoice because there will be less problems and more resources available
for people existing on earth. It is better to have quality than quantity,
that is, it is better to have fewer people who are better and having a
better quality of life than having too many people who are bad and who
degrade the quality of life.
Secondly to have children, heterosexuals do not need to have so many
copulations. They have thousands times more copulations than necessary. It
is as if an employee is asking thousands times more money for the real
value of a job or a seller is making people pay thousands times more than
the
real value of an article.
If those heterosexuals stop copulating the world will be a better place.
The world do not need those type of people. There are people more than
necessary on this earth. There are also enough smart people on this earth.
Many
problems (crimes, vices, theft, exploitation, etc) caused by heterosexuals
will disappear. So we say, let them stop copulating and having children.
Heterosexuals are the greatest killers and the greatest perverts
Heterosexuals are the greatest killers. Since the beginning of the world
heterosexuals have killed as many as the increase in population at a
particular period and sometimes much more. For example in 1970 there were 4
billions people. Now there are 6 billions people. In 30 years the population
has increased by 2 billions. In the same period heterosexuals have killed
approximately the same number of people.
From 1970 to 1999 an average of 50 millions abortions were perpetrated each
year by heterosexuals (Data from United Nations and World Health
Organization). This means that in 30 yrs, 50x30=1500 millions abortions
have been committed. Heterosexuals are guilty of 1.5 billions abortions in
that
period of time. Heterosexuals are guilty of this holocaust and genocide of
children. Heterosexuals are worst than the Nazis.
Heterosexuals committed about 150 crimes per year per million people. From
1970 to 1999 the average world population was 5 billions, that is 5000
millions people. Therefore each year heterosexuals committed
5000x150=750000 crimes. For 30 years they committed 30x750000=22,500,000
crimes.
During that period heterosexuals killed also about 100 millions people in
wars (soldiers and civil population).
During that period heterosexuals also killed about 100 millions people by
various diseases such as syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, AIDS, tuberculosis,
leprosy, etc. In the world 85% of AIDS are caused and transmitted by
heterosexuals. AIDS is a heterosexual disease. AIDS means heterosexuality.
During that period heterosexuals have killed and maimed about 100 millions
children through wars, molestation, child batterings, ill treatment,
lack of care and abandonment. Heterosexuals had also killed and are still
killing
millions of children in the bellies of their mothers by their furious and
savage copulations.
During that period heterosexuals have killed about 1,825 millions people,
that is, 1.825 billions (by abortions+crimes+wars+diseases+child batterings
and lack of care,etc).
Heterosexuals are therefore the greatest killers, the greatest murderers,
the greatest perverts and the greatest monsters.
Heterosexuals are the most dangerous people.
Shame on heterosexuals.
Heterosexuals say they give life to babies but they must remember that for
every person alive, they have killed another person. They give life but at
what cost. The cost is violence, crimes, vices, perversions, wars,
agressions and sins. The price of their life giving is very high. They must
also remember that most heterosexuals want only to satisfy their sexual and
vicious desires. Children are just the consequences. Heterosexuals have
nothing to be proud about having children. On the contrary they should be
ashamed of themselves for all the negative and catastrophic effects of
their selfish and vicious copulations and fornications.
Heterosexuals commit crimes against children and against humanity
Heterosexuals are perverted people. They are also child abusers and
molesters. They have perpetrated almost all of the crimes against children
and against humanity. Throughout history they have committed millions of
crimes against children. Today too they commit thousands of crimes against
children. Thousands more go unnoticed since they are not reported to the
police or the press. They have used children only for their own interests.
The children have not asked to be born. Therefore the parents have more
responsibility and duty towards the children than the children towards
their parents. The parents say they do things for the children. The children
too
do things for their parents. They give meaning to their lives, they
strengthen the relationships of the parents and they give the parents a
justification to indulge in sex. Often too the children look after the
parents when they get old. The parents have obtained more than they have
given. They have been paid back more than enough.
In spite of this, heterosexuals have beaten and ill-treated children for
centuries.
They are also responsible of child labour. Many heterosexuals
want only to satisfy their sexual desires without caring about the
consequences. They have caused 300 millions children to be born in
miserable and dangerous conditions. They have put these children to slavery.
The
figures in million on child labour by United Nations are thus:
Brazil : 25 millions
Colombia : 3 M
Mexico : 10 M Pakistan : 3 M
United States : 1 M Philippines : 3.5 M
Italy : 0.5 M India : 50 M
Thailand : 3 M
and many millions in other countries also.
Battered children most of the times happen in families and are caused by
heterosexuals. The parents are not punished sufficiently. Here is a heart
breaking case among thousands others:
Police detective breaks down in child abuse case
A couple tied their son to a door for two years because he was not born a
girl, a court heard. Police found the four year old boy and his two year old
brother with
extensive injuries in a house in suburban Sydney, police woman Lola Scott
told the court.
The parents, Donald Cappeti, 39, and his wife Robyn, 38, face eight
charges of grievous bodily harm. The prosecution said they were the worst
child abusers Australia had seen.
Scott wept as she told a preliminary hearing how David Capetti, who
sufferered from gangrene in one foot, was tied to a door for two years as
punishment for not being born a girl. He weighed only 25 lbs and had severe
rope burns on his body, she said.
David and his brother Darren had not been bathed for two months and were
fed only occasionally. The younger child had extensive burns, Scott added.
The parents will appear in court again in September 12. Magistrate John
Hiatt refused bail, saying the offences were "too horrific".
Heterosexuals are liars and lascivious
Heterosexuals hide themselves behind children. Heterosexuals always use
children as pretext. In the past they had 10 to 20 children. If they had
really wanted all those children, they should continue to have 20 children.
But nowadays contraceptives exist and they have only 1 to 3 children. This
is proof that they place the satisfaction of their desires before
everything. Heterosexuals are uncontrollable. If contraceptives do not
exist, they would still have 20 children, with all the disastrous
consequences for the family, society, the country and nature.
Moreover, all those sexual relationships are not necessary. To have 3
children only about 10 copulations are sufficient. But heterosexual couples
have on average 4000 copulations in their lives. This means that the 3990
relationships are not necessary. They use children to justify them. They
hide themselves behind children.
Artificial Insemination must be popularized. All the companies
manufacturing contraceptives will be converted into Artificial Insemination
clinics. Then the sexual act will be a thing of the past, just as the
washing machine is replacing more and more washing by hand.
Heterosexuals are uncontrollable (compulsive desire - a mental illness).
They are also egoist, irresponsible, vicious and lascivious. They commit
millions of abortions which are premeditated crimes. They are thus
criminals.
The ugliness of heterosexuality
The perversities of heterosexual people
When the woman becomes a wheelbarrow
The man stands between the legs of the woman and holds her legs with his
hands. The woman has her head down with her hands on the floor. The woman
ressembles a wheelbarrow that the man is going to push. As the woman moves
in front with her hands, the man follows her and strikes her with his penis
in her hole. Both get excited viciously and perversely. The man pushes the
woman-wheelbarrow. Now and then they stop and the man strikes the woman more
furiously and viciously with his penis in her hole. When the woman moves
with her hands on the floor, the man follows her. When the man pushes the
woman, she moves by making steps with her hands. After being perversely
satisfied, they stop. From time to time they perform this vicious sexuality.
This is only one example of the perversities of heterosexuals.
Heterosexuals are the greatest fuckers and the most vicious and dirty. They
fuck women in front, at the back, at the top (mouth), in the middle (between
breasts). They are cunt lickers, ass lickers, shit eater and urine drinker.
Their houses are like brothels and toilets. Their houses are stinky of shit
and urine. They have turned the world into brothels.
They are also the greatest child abusers and the greatest rapists. They are
also the greatest murderers. They commit almost all abortions which are
premeditated crimes. They fill the world with their shit and their filth.
Almost all prostitutes and brothels are heterosexual ones.
Their riches and their comfort are based greatly on theft, exploitation and
domination.
Heterosexuality is bestiality
Heterosexuals are violent, vicious, criminal, depraved
Heterosexuals are perverted
Heterosexuals are thieves
Heterosexuals are fornicators
Heterosexuals are rapists
Heterosexuals are vampires. They like to bite their partners like vampires.
Heterosexuals are sinners. They commit all sorts of sins.
Heterosexuals are cunt lickers
Heterosexuals are ass lickers
Heterosexual men are hungry of women. They want to devour women.
Heterosexual men want to stab women between their legs with their penises.
Heterosexuals are corrupting and rotting the world.
Heterosexuality is despicable and repulsive.
Heterosexuality is beastly and sick.
Heterosexuals are bestial
Heterosexuality is bestiality
Heterosexuals are disgusting and nauseating.
Their lifestyles are disgusting, nauseating and repulsive.
Heterosexual men are so vicious on women's breasts and in their vaginas that
they cause breast and uterine cancers in women.
Heterosexuals are abominable
Heterosexuals will be condemned to hell
Artificial Insemination Clinics should be encouraged to be set up.
Artificial Insemination will replace heterosexuality.
vkar...@yahoo.com
That's a very weak attempt at provocation. It takes more insults from
people like you than that to get my juices going. If you continue to
insult me, I'll treat you the way I treat Mama Hui. That is, I'll try
to ignor eyou.
If I am a troll and have no talent - then why is it important to see my
reply to you?
Why do you keep on continuously insulting me and then expect me to pay
attention to all your posts?
Moreover, given your own total disregard for many of my posts to you,
your trying to tie my not responding to one of your enormously lengthy
posts (as if replying to all posts is obligatory and as if you yourself
reply to all posts addressed to you) to my being a troll and a
talentless one at that - that's just lack of integrity on oyur part.
FYI, that post of yours is on my list of dissertations to read.
However, there are 3 or 4 other old and lengthy posts from BM and
others that are ahead of yours on that list. And certainly my
conversations with BM are more intelectually gratifying and challenging
to me than those with you. BM is a smart man. And he doesn't resort to
cheap insults, nor he refuses to answer simple questions. Nor does he
base his arguments on Latvian texts and then tells the readers to "hire
transaltors" to understand these texts, like you do.
Lengthy discussions are highly tolling. It's easier to engage in
shorter ones. Plus the history of marxism in Georgia isn't of much
interest to me. I am kind of not interested in dicussing Menshevik vs.
Bolshevik intra-factional marxist battles from 90 years ago. I read the
first couple of paragraphs of your dissertation and lost interest in
it.
I am much more intrerested in more modern politics. Iraq, Panama,
Yugoslavia, Iran. Modern Georgia if you wish. Modern Trans-Dniester and
Ukraine. Modern Kurdistan. Almost anything that's modern.
But when I tried to engage you in detailed discussions on modern issues
like modern separatism/independence, you blew me off. Why should I
treat your posts with more respect than you treat mine?
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
vkar...@yahoo.com wrote:
[deletions]
> I am much more intrerested in more modern politics. Iraq, Panama,
> Yugoslavia, Iran. Modern Georgia if you wish. Modern Trans-Dniester and
> Ukraine. Modern Kurdistan. Almost anything that's modern.
>
> But when I tried to engage you in detailed discussions on modern issues
> like modern separatism/independence, you blew me off. Why should I
> treat your posts with more respect than you treat mine?
Excuse me, but it is _you_ who turn every detailed discussion into a
murky version of the muddled cold war in your head -- detailed posts on
Transnistria beget America- and Russocentric posts on Kosovo and Panama
(!) and squibs on who supposedly loved the Nazis sixty years ago (in
_modern_ Yugoslavia?) are never far away. The discussion (if one could
call it that) of "modern" separatism _followed_ the discussion you
fled, Karlamov -- I tried to discuss separatism and recognition, but
your idea of "detail" is waving a checklist and ignoring most of what
is written.
As to "respect" -- it has long been obvious that you have no respect
for this forum, your feelings towards me personally not being
important. Count the number of times you've made your little remarks
about how nobody is capable of arguing on your level (!), your cracks
about IQ, etc. You ran around peppering other threads with your lack of
respect even whilst pretending to have a civilized discussion.
"I am much more intrerested [sic] in more modern politics."
Oh? Don't you read your own spew?
"Historically genocidal countries of Germany, USA, Turkey and their
NATO
buddies..."
"Look at the Georgian political tradition. It is a never-ending
procession of leaders suffering from disabling mental illnesses..."
The whole thread my "dissertation" is in (my "dissertation" being a
response to your error-ridden one) began with a stilted, provocative
question about 1945 and sequed to Hiroshima -- and your grand entrance
into this group was a post based on Russian reviews of a caption in a
book of history you haven't read.
As to citations of Latvian texts -- I quoted from them and cited
information contained in them. Most people here trust my citations,
even if they disagree with me. You, Karlamov-as-Anzaurres, had read
neither the book you were discussing nor any of the important texts (in
_any_ language) anent the topic you were spewing about.
Finally, you revealed the full, blazing extent of your brilliance and
familiarity with the region, on 5 May 2005. I quote:
"It will become YOUR problem when you try to join NATO or EU and refuse
to translate your drivel into official EU languages..."
In other words, you didn't even know that the Baltic States _were_ and
_are_ members of both the EU and NATO!
Or that Latvian, Lithuanian, and Estonian _are_ official languages of
the EU.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.russian/msg/5b85d61a1f7de3e6
In a typically pathetic gesture, you threatened to run to your
Congressman, as you are again doing: "I for one will call my
Congressman. And so will hundreds of thousands
of other American Jews."
Forget it, Karlamov -- you are performing what Hui would call a
"Russkie hoppy dance," and that is all you are capable of. History gets
brought in when _you_ want to malign a nation (any nation not in love
with the Kremlin, basically).
I have zero respect for your intelligence, your (lack of) knowledge, or
your style of "debate," so further discussion would be fruitless. I
will continue to comment on your distortions as part of my
participation in the forum, but trying to have a rational debate with
you is obviously a no-go.
Sincerely,
/P
vkar...@yahoo.com
«Pas de deux»
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149132260.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> ???? ? ???? - ?????? ?????.
>
Ka tu nori pasakyti?
Dmitry
He said that his life will become easier if Peteris stops taking him
seriously and end any further attempts to have any rational debates
with him.
vkar...@yahoo.com
«Pas de deux» wrote:
> <vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1149132260.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Ka tu nori pasakyti?
>
I thought you said you knew Russian better than I do...
This is a traditional Russian-Ukrainian saying that can be translated
as:
"Farmer off the wagon - mare unburdened..."
"When the farmer decides to jumps off the wagon, the horse's burden
only becomes easier to pull".
I thnink the English saying is "Good riddance".
vkar...@yahoo.com
>
> the russian protesters were fully clothed and were not doing anything other
> than marching.
>
But there were virtually no Russian "protestors" at all at that protest
rally. There was exactly one Russian protestor: some guy named Nikolay
Alekseev, who admits that he "doesn't represent anybody except
himself".
While writing this, I am watching a videotape of RenTV's Weekly News
Show from earlier today, which, as you know is the voice of the
pro-Western liberal democratic intelligentsia on Russian TV. After an
interview with Alekseev, who claimed to be just one man representing
only himself, they said the following:
"Among gays, journalists saw only foreigners, who had flown to Moscow
to watch a Russian gay parade and who, unexpectedly to themselves,
became its active and only participants..."
"Here is a video of foreign gays, waiting for the arrival of the
Russian gays at the Dolgoruki Monument. But the latter never
materialised..."
"There was another rumor that two Russian gays would burn themselves to
death as a protest against Luzhkov's refusal to let them march. This
also didn't materialise."
RenTV showed an interview with these two, who said that they had
changed their minds and that their "new propaganda message is: peace,
friendship and chewing gum!" (direct quote).
So, the whole circus featured extremist right-wing extremist left-wing
European provocateur activists vs. Russian nationalists, trying to
provoke the normal Russian majority, both heteros and gays.
Here is one more interview with the provocateur Alekseev: "This action
is not supported by the gays of Russia. It is organized in the name of
the international initiative group that supports me."
Here is the interview with Ed Mishin, the Editor-in-Chief of Russia's
main gay magazine "KVIR", who also claims that this parade was a
provocation and was not supported by the Russian gay community: "The
goal of this "parade" was not to hold a peaceful procession, but to
make every effort to provoke the authorities into banning this very
procession, thus creating the desired scandal".
When the pro-Western RenTV is so critical of a Western-organised
action, you know it must stink to high heaven. Much ado about
nothing...
captain.
"Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message :
<snipped>
damn, great post. you really earn your title of "mister" with this one
mister cedrins.
captain.
"Peteris Cedrins (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148855048.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
<another good post snipped>
very impressive. i am elevating you from mister cedrins to sir cedrins.
you are the first in SCB to be bestowed with this honor
*bows*
captain.
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149387044.2...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
reminds me of how in the soviet union known homosexuals were routinely
rounded up and harassed when the the police had no other suspects for a
crime. perhaps russia is not ready for gay pride parades yet but i have a
feeling that there might be more turnout next year nevertheless.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
Thanks, Captain.
Re: Karlamov's last comments -- once again, you are avoiding the major
issues (e.g., that the protest was banned -- surely a sanctioned march
would have attracted more Russians). The fact that most of the gay
community was opposed to the venet, because Russia is not ready for
such an event and it could (did, will) provoke a backlash was already
mentioned.
The fact that gays from democratic countries notable for their
tolerance participate in protests in intolerant countries is neither
surprising nor deserving of condemnation, in my opinion.
Yesterday's march in Bucharest was broken up by violence --
http://www.mediafax.ro/english/articole-free/Gay-Pride-Parade-In-Bucharest-498602-9.html
Calling Noua Dreaptă a "Christian organization" (as in the article
linked to above) is highly misleading -- it is a neo-fascist Orthodox
extremist group, part of the European National Front.
Here is a good article on the background of the Romanian event (last
edited prior to yesterday's violence); as you can see, Russia looks bad
even compared to Romania --
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Third_GayFest_begins_in_Bucharest
Regards,
/P
captain.
"Vladimir Makarenko" <maka...@popmail.med.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:v-udnTqW4ou8NuTZ...@comcast.com...
> captain. wrote:
>
>> sadly , in this case, they were.
>>
>> even in the pictures we can see a proud fascist giving the hitler salute.
>
> You really have a problem with pictures captain. There is no such picture
> there.
>
> VM.
>
the picture is easy to find. so i don't really know what you are getting at
here.
look for the young skinhead, arms proudly in the air, palms out facing
forward, with the covered face.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
A highly amusing link on Orthodoxy in Romania --
http://romerican.blogspot.com/2006/04/pate-fericit.html#links
/P
lora...@cs.com
Peteris Cedrinš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
> century later and in a different world, really judge people who were
> often trapped between at least two evils?
Yes, sure thing, bubba...
It's done all the time in the case of naughty germans.
And so must be done in the case of naughty chekists who were the
genocider Stalin's willing servants.
Get a brain, already.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
When you quote from a post (particularly if you half a sentence out of
context, as above), you should not erase the link to the original post.
The full paragraph from which you extracted the phrase runs as follows:
The Soviet occupation resumed, of course -- but these were _soldiers_,
Gintai, not Chekists. Young men from Bog knows where in Russia,
fighting the "Great Patriotic War" -- see Ribakov for a good portrayal
of the change in psyche the war brought about. Do you really think such
people knew _anything_ about the Baltics, other than what the
Moustachioed One told them? As to political philosophies -- personally,
I am always disturbed by retroactive, vitriolic blanket condemnations
(for example, by those who say that the Latvian Bolsheviks who were
murdered by Stalin "got what they deserved"). Criminals were and are
criminals, and should have been and should be punished -- for their
acts. But many of the Communists were indeed idealists, not rarely
themselves disillusioned, if misguided -- can we, more than half a
century later and in a different world, really judge people who were
often trapped between at least two evils?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.baltics/msg/dc010326da638d4d
My paragraph explicity states that the persons being discussed were
_not_ Chekists. It also says that criminals should be punished for
their acts.
As to blanket judgments being applied to the nasty Germans -- I am not
rarely quite disturbed by those, too; I do not accept Goldhagen's view,
for example.
Your hypocrisy is showing, Hui -- when it comes to discussing Latvian
participation in the Holocaust, almost everybody is innocent.
Ideological conviction -- particularly in the case of ideologies that
spill so much blood -- is a complex thing. The vast majority of the
Latvian Bolsheviks were not Chekists, and very many were themselves the
victims of genocide in the late 1930s (i.e., they were murdered prior
to the only genocidal events you care about).
Much blood was shed rather earlier -- Fabriciuss' exhortation to build
barricades out of bourgeois corpses in Valka, for example, came during
the Red Terror in 1919, when as many as 5000 people were murdered in
less than five months (primarily by Latvian Bolsheviks).
There was also a White Terror, and the period (like 1905 before it) was
steeped in violence. I'm interested in understanding the era and the
major figures in it (and please note that not a few Latvian
nationalists were also rather bloodthirsty, particularly in the 1905
Revolution). Superficial condemnation impedes any insight we might
have.
Vysu lobu,
/P
captain.
"Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149422875.9...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
i'd be interested to hear the black monks opinion on it.
Vladimir Makarenko
You know very well what I am getting at. Since then two raised spread
hands which always was sign of "Stop" became "a hitler salute"? Do you
know waht was Nazi salute?
Anyway, try this before interpreting whatever next photo you'll see:
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rorschach.php
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
Jesus, where in the world you got THAT? Care to share?
VM.
vkar...@yahoo.com
You don't understand Russian culture. Sexual activity and preferences
are considered a private area. None of anybody's business. Mind your
own business.
And that's what the vast majority of Rusisan gays seem to feel too.
They want to have the freedom to follow their sexual attractions and
desires in private without exposing it to the public. The only thing
they want from the government is to provide enough protection for the
gay clubs, which do attract a few sex-deprived right-wings bigots,
looking for trouble.
The whole idea of parading one's sexual preference on the streets is as
revolting to Russian gays as it is to heteros. For example, why should
one parade one's love for oral sex? If you love oral sex (and who
doesn't) - ask your partner to give it to you in the privacy of your
own bedroom.
Will there be more turmoil next year? Of course. Next year, even more
Western provocateurs will fly into Moscow to create a conflict. And
the Russian newspapers and media will be once again filled with
hilarious articles making fun of this "much ado about nothing" between
Western left-wing kooks and Russian right-wing kooks. And the Western
newspapers and media will be once again filled with pathos-filled and
pathetic articles, probably denmouncing "Russian genocide" against
Russian gays.
But why can't they just parade in their own countries? They can do it
totally in the nude, for all I care. What right do they have to create
turmoil in a foreign to them country and culture? Why can't Russia have
its own culture?
vkar...@yahoo.com
Tell me, Captain, how is it that you seem to be such a great expert on
the life and suffering of average people during the Soviet time, yet
you until recently didn't even know the most trivial facts about
Russia's most important and revered man - Alexander Pushkin? I mean,
even the 4 year old babies know that he was of partial African origin,
as all his pictures so eloquently attest.
Vladimir Makarenko
P?teris Cedri?š (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
>
> captain. wrote:
> > "Peteris Cedrins (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1148855048.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > <another good post snipped>
> >
> > very impressive. i am elevating you from mister cedrins to sir cedrins.
> >
> > you are the first in SCB to be bestowed with this honor
> > *bows*
>
> Thanks, Captain.
Don't be so cheap, Peteris, what he can do with your "thank you"? - the
guy ranked you up twice and you cannot do as little in return as throw
him a chevron and promote him to at least majors?
VM.
captain.
"Vladimir Makarenko" <nospamm...@popmail.med.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:QdCdnTqvVL8KXh7Z...@comcast.com...
where i personally learned it was from a documentary on a russian cerial
killer from the 80s written by a russian who claimed it. i based my opinion
on this. so perhaps a bit more information is needed but i can't even
remember the name of the movie or the killer who was profiled, except that
he was russia's most prolific known cerial killer.
captain.
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149487584.6...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> You don't understand Russian culture.
i understand it better than most westerners.
Sexual activity and preferences
> are considered a private area. None of anybody's business. Mind your
> own business.
>
if that is truly the case then why didn't the fascists and orthodox priests
leave the homos alone?
obviously they felt that is was indeed their business.
> And that's what the vast majority of Rusisan gays seem to feel too.
> They want to have the freedom to follow their sexual attractions and
> desires in private without exposing it to the public. The only thing
> they want from the government is to provide enough protection for the
> gay clubs, which do attract a few sex-deprived right-wings bigots,
> looking for trouble.
>
heh heh, you seem to know alot about what gays want. eh?
> The whole idea of parading one's sexual preference on the streets is as
> revolting to Russian gays as it is to heteros. For example, why should
> one parade one's love for oral sex? If you love oral sex (and who
> doesn't) - ask your partner to give it to you in the privacy of your
> own bedroom.
>
why not in public, on a bus, late at night when there are no other
passengers riding?
> Will there be more turmoil next year? Of course. Next year, even more
> Western provocateurs will fly into Moscow to create a conflict.
damn those westerners, trying to teach russian gays to stand up for
themselves. what's next?
And
> the Russian newspapers and media will be once again filled with
> hilarious articles making fun of this "much ado about nothing" between
> Western left-wing kooks and Russian right-wing kooks. And the Western
> newspapers and media will be once again filled with pathos-filled and
> pathetic articles, probably denmouncing "Russian genocide" against
> Russian gays.
their job is to write what sells. far be it from me to try and change their
minds.
>
> But why can't they just parade in their own countries? They can do it
> totally in the nude, for all I care. What right do they have to create
> turmoil in a foreign to them country and culture? Why can't Russia have
> its own culture?
>
sigh.
captain.
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149487892.7...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Tell me, Captain, how is it that you seem to be such a great expert on
> the life and suffering of average people during the Soviet time, yet
> you until recently didn't even know the most trivial facts about
> Russia's most important and revered man - Alexander Pushkin? I mean,
> even the 4 year old babies know that he was of partial African origin,
> as all his pictures so eloquently attest.
>
well, you unwittingly stumbled onto the truth. my level of learning russian
language is at the level of a young child. part of learning to speak russian
involves learning to recite poetry and of course pushkin is included. then
you start to learn about the man himself.
regardless, your point is mute because i was taught of pushkin's heritage by
my teacher ( just like you were when you were a young pioneer).
furthermore, i have never claimed to be an "expert" on "the life and
suffering of average people in soviet time". this is your creation. a truly
karlovian creation at that!
captain.
>
>
> P?teris Cedri?s (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
>>
>> captain. wrote:
>> > "Peteris Cedrins (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> > message
>> > news:1148855048.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > <another good post snipped>
>> >
>> > very impressive. i am elevating you from mister cedrins to sir cedrins.
>> >
>> > you are the first in SCB to be bestowed with this honor
>> > *bows*
>>
>> Thanks, Captain.
>
> Don't be so cheap, Peteris, what he can do with your "thank you"? - the
> guy ranked you up twice and you cannot do as little in return as throw
> him a chevron and promote him to at least majors?
>
> VM.
>
lol, i'm a king maker makarenko , not a king. besides, i could never rise
higher than a captain. such is my destiny.
Asterix
>"Unicorn" <uni...@virgin.com> wrote in message
>news:AHieg.1636$xH1...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Here is a Video:
>> Scenes from the streets of Moscow
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm
>> "Asterix" <Ast...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
>> news:vjcj729p026a7sjcd...@4ax.com...
>>> Aren't faggots supposed to be burned?
>>> Did someone forget the Molotov Cocktails for the celebrations?
>Can you imagine Asterix as president of the USA? He'd probably extend the
>death penalty to include puffs.
>LOL
>Daz
A hell of a good idea.
I should have thought of it before you did.
>>> Glad to see that even in Russia, sensible people there do not want to
>>> create another Sodom & Gomorrah as is now in Canada, Usa and Britain!!
>>> On Sat, 27 May 2006 19:45:32 +0100, Michael McCann <m1cky@(((0))).net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13526011,00.html
>>>>
>>>>The first Gay Rights march held in Moscow has been broken up by
>>>>Russian police, militant Orthodox Christians and neo-fascists.
>>>>A group of about 40 marchers, led by 28-year-old Nikolia Alexeyev,
>>>>planned to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The tomb is
>>>>symbolic of the World War Two struggle against fascism.
On Sun, 28 May 2006 19:31:28 +0300, hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:
>In article <%Sheg.31$Su3....@news20.bellglobal.com>, "«Pas de deux»"
><kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> "Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> " even in Daugavpils the red stars on the tombs [of Red Army soldiers
>> who died for Stalin and the Soviet Union]
>> have been replaced by Orthodox crosses (one hopes that none of those
>> buried there were were fervent Marxist-Leninists...).
>>
>> On the contrary. I think it's cool that some fervent Marxist-Leninists
>> may have ended up with crosses instead of stars on their graves. It's
>> only a drop in the sea of redress for the tens of thousands of Balts who
>> sleep in crappy cemeteries {or unmarked or star-marked graves} in
>> Siberia. Some of my relatives included. But Holman and a few others
>> will tell me it was all for a good cause ...
>
>I most certainly will not.
>
>\EH
vkar...@yahoo.com
captain. wrote:
> <vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1149487584.6...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > You don't understand Russian culture.
>
> i understand it better than most westerners.
>
>
> Sexual activity and preferences
> > are considered a private area. None of anybody's business. Mind your
> > own business.
>
> if that is truly the case then why didn't the fascists and orthodox priests
> leave the homos alone?
> obviously they felt that is was indeed their business.
>
Because these are outcasts, dreks of the society. Their preoccupation
with other people's private lives is very unhealthy and
unrepresentative of averge Russians, who just want to leave gays alone,
if you don't count innocent gender-bender jokes here and there.
>
> > And that's what the vast majority of Rusisan gays seem to feel too.
> > They want to have the freedom to follow their sexual attractions and
> > desires in private without exposing it to the public. The only thing
> > they want from the government is to provide enough protection for the
> > gay clubs, which do attract a few sex-deprived right-wings bigots,
> > looking for trouble.
> >
>
> heh heh, you seem to know alot about what gays want. eh?
>
I had a very good friend in New York who was gay. He told me a lot
about their concernes and lives. Thne he moved to Russia, on my advice.
So, whenever i visit Russia, we get together and share our thoughts on
life. Once we were drinking in a regular bar, and he wanted to prove
to me how easy it is for heteros to improve their love life if they
used his charm. And I told him that the only thing his charm will reel
in is a pro. So, we struck a $100 bet. So, he went up to a girl
sitting alone, struck up a conversation and then got to intdroduce her
to me. She was a nice girl. However, our paying for her drinks wasn't
enough. She wanted $100 per hour of our conversation. I refused the
offer, even though I had a brand new $1000 bill that I had just won on
a bet. So, he had to admit that it is no easier for heteros to meet a
nice partner. BTW, she was the least attractive looking girl in the
bar. But he was sure she was a beauty, a real head-turner for men.
In nay case, he is highly private about his sexuality with anybody
other than closest friends.
We used to play tennis in Central Park on Sundays, and he often came to
the games in a depressed moon, because he had just returned from his
parents' home and they kept on asking: "So, when are you going to
finish your crazy peroiod? When will you marry a nice girl and give us
grandchidren? What have we done wrong to you that you punish us like
this? Are you doing it on purpose?...." etc.
That's when I promised myself that when I have children, I will not let
their sexuality influence my relations with them one bit.
>
> > The whole idea of parading one's sexual preference on the streets is as
> > revolting to Russian gays as it is to heteros. For example, why should
> > one parade one's love for oral sex? If you love oral sex (and who
> > doesn't) - ask your partner to give it to you in the privacy of your
> > own bedroom.
> >
>
> why not in public, on a bus, late at night when there are no other
> passengers riding?
>
Once my wife and I tried it in our car in San Francisco at 2am on
weekend. Found a nice park. Soon we were surrpounded by big angry
soldiers with blinding flashlights. The park's name was Park Presidio.
Make your own jokes.
>
> > Will there be more turmoil next year? Of course. Next year, even more
> > Western provocateurs will fly into Moscow to create a conflict.
>
> damn those westerners, trying to teach russian gays to stand up for
> themselves. what's next?
>
Did you hear the latest: Yuschenko has banned all foreigners
(especially Russians) from coming to the Crimea to demonstrate against
the illegal NATO exercises.
Get the irony?
>
> And
> > the Russian newspapers and media will be once again filled with
> > hilarious articles making fun of this "much ado about nothing" between
> > Western left-wing kooks and Russian right-wing kooks. And the Western
> > newspapers and media will be once again filled with pathos-filled and
> > pathetic articles, probably denmouncing "Russian genocide" against
> > Russian gays.
>
> their job is to write what sells. far be it from me to try and change their
> minds.
>
Yes, and what sells in Russia is making fun of both foreign left-wing
"political correcttness" extremists and Russian right-wing and
religious fundamentalists. We/they find it quite hilarious.
captain.
<vkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149708696.9...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Asterix
JimMcCarthy
Proposition 13
BenKramer2
GeorgeOrwell
Greg Carver
JudgeLynch
ScarletPumpernickel
>>>>http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13526011,00.html
>> "P�teris Cedri�� (Peteris Cedrins)" <ced...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Kenneth McVay OBC
ScarletPumpernickel <ru...@operamail.com> wrote:
Oh, look! There's William Grosvenor's favourite
newsreader again!
Updated Grosvenor Legal Documents & Extortion conviction:
http://William-Grosvenor.info
Grosvenor fled Canada after complying with a court
order to pay a $50,000 libel award and costs in excess
of $30,000 resulting from his penchant for defamation,
libel, assault and extortion.
What sort of "man" would leave his wife behind to face
the music after he runs away?
William Grosvenor, of course, the True Face of "White nationalism."
--
"The antisemite has chosen hate because hate is a faith;
at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons."
(Sarte. Antisemite and Jew, p. 19)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org