Re: sioc:Space ontology concept linking
John Breslin
Great to hear from you!
Is an InfoService always going to store data or could it be something
non-computer related? For me, sioc:Space could be on the public Web or just
in some intranet storage - doesn't have to be on the Internet - but I'm not
sure what you mean by offline and offline... Maybe you could qualify?
Thanks!
John
On 25/06/2010 15:20, "Bob Ferris" <za...@elbklang.net> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm currently developing the Info Service Ontology [1,2,3,4], which
> enables an association of arbitrary resources to its underlying
> information service (see [5] for a definition of the term 'information
> service').
> Furthermore, such an information service could then be described,
> categorized and rated (re. its information service quality) through the
> is:InfoService concept[2] and its relations to more detailed description
> concepts (see [3] for a proof-of-concept example).
> As it becomes more and more important for data/knowledge consumer to
> (maybe automatically) select the right/a good information service, which
> delivers this information, an information service quality rating could
> probably deliver information, which will hopefully help the
> data/knowledge consumer to find a good choice.
> These information service quality ratings could be done by several
> information service quality rating agencies for different information
> services (also based on maybe different Info Service Quality Ontology
> specifications, e.g. [7] as an interesting information quality
> classification).
>
> Now to the important part, why I'm contacting your list ;)
>
> How do you think about the relation of sioc:Space ("A Space is a place
> where data resides, e.g. on a website, desktop, fileshare, etc. ") to
> is:InfoService ("An Information Service is this part of an Information
> System that serves data/knowledge/information to customers and collects
> it from its contributors, to manage and store it by optionally using
> administrators.").
> I figured out sioc:Space as the most equal concept to is:InfoService.
> However, I still think that the definition of sioc:Space maybe
> concentrates on the 'online' domain, where on the other side, the
> definition of is:InfoService should capture both domains - the 'online'
> and 'offline' domain.
>
> As already mentioned on the Info Service Ontology mailing list[6], there
> are (more or less, so far as I know) three ways for defining the
> association/relation between the concepts sioc:Space and is:InfoService:
>
> 1. :my_instance_of_something a sioc:Space , is:InfoService . # the
> association is then only on the A-Box level
>
> 2. sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService . # this is maybe the
> most strongest relation
>
> 3. sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService . # this expresses a bit
> stronger that sioc:Space is a part of is:InfoService
>
> How do you think about building this relation?
>
> In general, it might be enough to define a 'best practice' re.
> suggesting association case '1.' for typing instances with a
> is:InfoService association. However, I think building a stronger
> relation might be better for reasoning options (following the principle:
> tell the (dumb) machine as many as you know) and also a bit easier in
> defining individuals.
>
> So, please let me know, how you would create this ontology concept relation.
> Thank you for all your (forthcoming) efforts.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Bob
>
> [1]
> http://infoserviceonto.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/infoserviceonto/infoservice/
> trunk/rdf/infoservice.n3
> [2]
> http://infoserviceonto.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/infoserviceonto/infoservice/
> trunk/gfx/infoservice.gif
> [3]
> http://infoserviceonto.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/infoserviceonto/infoservice/
> trunk/gfx/is_-_musicbrainz_example.gif
> [4] https://infoserviceonto.wordpress.com/
> [5]
> https://infoserviceonto.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/what-is-an-information-servic
> e/
> [6]
> http://groups.google.com/group/info-service-ontology-specification-group/t/982
> 0211f7fe52978
> [7] http://w3.cyu.edu.tw/ccwei/PAPER/ERP/data%20quality%28JMIS%29.pdf
Bob Ferris
Thanks a lot for your very fast response.
Am 26.06.2010 03:16, schrieb John Breslin:
> Hi Bob -
>
> Great to hear from you!
>
> Is an InfoService always going to store data or could it be something
> non-computer related?
I think it depends on how one defines 'store data'. I may want to
illustrate a non-technical view of an/a ontologist/linguist (I'm really
nor both of these ones, however, I think they have a deep impact on
ontology modelling).
Let's find some examples:
- A library is a knowledge base (information service), which stores
books etc.
- A human could also be a knowledge base (information service), which
stores his/her own knowledge
- A book is a (smaller) knowledge base (information service), which
stores its knowledge in each page (maybe one could see a book as a kind
of restricted intranet storage in contrast to the huge internet storage)
More or less every metaphor, which describes something in the computer
world, is derived from an already existing thing in the world (I don't
want to say real world, because what we see in the Internet is also
real, else we may couldn't see it ;) ).
As you can see, all these examples I mentioned above are non-computer
related. However, most of them already exist somehow in the computer
world. Furthermore, you can see that I use two term for describing what
a thing is/could be. That means, generally I see an information service
only as a facet of this thing, which could also have more different
facets.
Another point is, that I would currently primarily concentrate on
modelling instances, which have/deliver a huge amount of
knowledge/information (of a specific domain or domain independent).
Everything that is very small and/or subjective, e.g. personal things
like personal blogs, websites etc. are for this development step out of
scope. However, if one feel free to model these thing, the definition of
information service should be strong enough to also include these things.
> For me, sioc:Space could be on the public Web or just
> in some intranet storage - doesn't have to be on the Internet - but I'm not
> sure what you mean by offline and offline... Maybe you could qualify?
With 'offline', I mean non-computer (related) things, and with 'online',
I mean computer/Internet related things. Maybe one have to find
therefore better terms. I would currently vote for the terms 'computer'
and 'non-computer' (as you already used it). That would hopefully also
clarify a bit the scope of the information service definition. However,
if someone has a better one, feel free to propose it ;)
Finally, I'm still thinking that sioc:Space and is:InfoService are
somehow equal to each other, or sioc:Space is a subset of is:InfoService.
Cheers,
Bob
Alexandre Passant
On 26 Jun 2010, at 08:41, Bob Ferris wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks a lot for your very fast response.
>
> Am 26.06.2010 03:16, schrieb John Breslin:
>> Hi Bob -
>>
>> Great to hear from you!
>>
>> Is an InfoService always going to store data or could it be something
>> non-computer related?
>
> I think it depends on how one defines 'store data'. I may want to illustrate a non-technical view of an/a ontologist/linguist (I'm really nor both of these ones, however, I think they have a deep impact on ontology modelling).
> Let's find some examples:
>
> - A library is a knowledge base (information service), which stores books etc.
> - A human could also be a knowledge base (information service), which stores his/her own knowledge
> - A book is a (smaller) knowledge base (information service), which stores its knowledge in each page (maybe one could see a book as a kind of restricted intranet storage in contrast to the huge internet storage)
In that case, I think that sioc:Space won't be appropriate.
As John said, SIOC refers to online content, and that case refers to other "non-computer" content. (Besides the use of DL or eBooks that might be sioc:Space(s) instances)
>
> More or less every metaphor, which describes something in the computer world, is derived from an already existing thing in the world (I don't want to say real world, because what we see in the Internet is also real, else we may couldn't see it ;) ).
> As you can see, all these examples I mentioned above are non-computer related. However, most of them already exist somehow in the computer world. Furthermore, you can see that I use two term for describing what a thing is/could be. That means, generally I see an information service only as a facet of this thing, which could also have more different facets.
> Another point is, that I would currently primarily concentrate on modelling instances, which have/deliver a huge amount of knowledge/information (of a specific domain or domain independent). Everything that is very small and/or subjective, e.g. personal things like personal blogs, websites etc. are for this development step out of scope. However, if one feel free to model these thing, the definition of information service should be strong enough to also include these things.
>
>> For me, sioc:Space could be on the public Web or just
>> in some intranet storage - doesn't have to be on the Internet - but I'm not
>> sure what you mean by offline and offline... Maybe you could qualify?
>
> With 'offline', I mean non-computer (related) things, and with 'online', I mean computer/Internet related things. Maybe one have to find therefore better terms. I would currently vote for the terms 'computer' and 'non-computer' (as you already used it). That would hopefully also clarify a bit the scope of the information service definition. However, if someone has a better one, feel free to propose it ;)
>
> Finally, I'm still thinking that sioc:Space and is:InfoService are somehow equal to each other, or sioc:Space is a subset of is:InfoService.
I would agree for the subClass proposal, but not for the equality as exposed before.
Best,
Alex.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Bob
>
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>
--
Dr. Alexandre Passant
Digital Enterprise Research Institute
National University of Ireland, Galway
:me owl:sameAs <http://apassant.net/alex> .
Bob Ferris
Hi Alex,
Hi SIOC specification group,
I feel fine with this decision. Now it's upon you ;)
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Bob
kidehen
The relation:
sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
networks :-)
Kingsley
On Jun 25, 9:16 pm, John Breslin <john.bres...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
> Hi Bob -
>
> Great to hear from you!
>
> Is an InfoService always going to store data or could it be something
> non-computer related? For me, sioc:Space could be on the public Web or just
> in some intranet storage - doesn't have to be on the Internet - but I'm not
> sure what you mean by offline and offline... Maybe you could qualify?
>
> Thanks!
>
> John
>
> > trunk/rdf/infoservice.n3
> > [2]
> >http://infoserviceonto.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/infoserviceonto/inf...
> > trunk/gfx/infoservice.gif
> > [3]
> >http://infoserviceonto.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/infoserviceonto/inf...
> >https://infoserviceonto.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/what-is-an-informati...
> > e/
> > [6]
> >http://groups.google.com/group/info-service-ontology-specification-gr...
> > 0211f7fe52978
> > [7]http://w3.cyu.edu.tw/ccwei/PAPER/ERP/data%20quality%28JMIS%29.pdf
Nathan
> John,
>
> The relation:
> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>
> or even
>
> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>
> Work fine.
>
> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
> networks :-)
sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be
anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you can't
dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the real world.
ps: I may be wrong on my understanding of Bob's InfoService
Alexandre Passant
On 16 Jul 2010, at 00:42, Nathan wrote:
> kidehen wrote:
>> John,
>> The relation:
>> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>> or even
>> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>> Work fine.
>> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
>> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
>> networks :-)
>
> sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you can't dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the real world.
>
Agreed, equivalentClass is imo wrong but the subclass would be ok, cf Bob's definition and my previous comment at [1]
Alex.
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/sioc-dev/msg/348596af5c61fc6b?dmode=source
Bob Ferris
thanks a lot Kingsley, for re-opening the discussion here.
Am 16.07.2010 09:41, schrieb Alexandre Passant:
>
> On 16 Jul 2010, at 00:42, Nathan wrote:
>
>> kidehen wrote:
>>> John,
>>> The relation:
>>> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>>> or even
>>> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>>> Work fine.
>>> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
>>> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
>>> networks :-)
>>
>> sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you can't dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the real world.
>>
>
> Agreed, equivalentClass is imo wrong but the subclass would be ok, cf Bob's definition and my previous comment at [1]
>
+1 sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
I my mind, an Information Service has a maybe bigger scope. However, if
one would like to use it with some non-computer related things, one also
have to create an URI or literal for that thing at least for
identification, or?
Please refer also my blog post[1] about the Information Service definition.
Please let me also know, if you are happy with that definition.
Cheers,
Bob
[1]
http://infoserviceonto.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/what-is-an-information-service/
Kingsley Idehen
> kidehen wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> The relation:
>> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>>
>> or even
>>
>> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>>
>> Work fine.
>>
>> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
>> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
>> networks :-)
>
> sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be
> anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you
> can't dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the
> real world.
>
> ps: I may be wrong on my understanding of Bob's InfoService
Hoping you are wrong :-)
A Data Space is a Named Partition for accessing, referencing, and
general management of data, associated with an Agent.
Data Spaces aren't Web specific, they are just network specific with a
Distributed Data Object bent (e.g. Linked Data).
SIOC provides an HTTP network implementation framework.
Ultimate proof comes down to local axioms (TBox mappings in a specific
space e.g. LOD) applied to existing instance data associated with both
ontologies. Thus, if I get the time, I'll look closer and do the
following: cross link, place my mappings in a distinct Named Graph
within the LOD Cloud cache instance, then take a TBox tour through the
LOD data space :-)
Kingsley
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
Alexandre Passant
On 16 Jul 2010, at 13:24, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> Nathan wrote:
>> kidehen wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> The relation:
>>> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>>>
>>> or even
>>>
>>> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>>>
>>> Work fine.
>>>
>>> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
>>> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
>>> networks :-)
>>
>> sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you can't dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the real world.
>>
>> ps: I may be wrong on my understanding of Bob's InfoService
>
> Hoping you are wrong :-)
>
> A Data Space is a Named Partition for accessing, referencing, and general management of data, associated with an Agent.
>
> Data Spaces aren't Web specific, they are just network specific with a Distributed Data Object bent (e.g. Linked Data).
Right, they might be.
However, in the case of SIOC, we focus on online / Web-based Data Spaces.
Hence the subclass definition
Alex.
Kingsley Idehen
> On 16 Jul 2010, at 00:42, Nathan wrote:
>
>
>> kidehen wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> The relation:
>>> sioc:Space rdfs:subClassOf is:InfoService
>>> or even
>>> sioc:Space owl:equivalentClass is:InfoService
>>> Work fine.
>>> In either case its about a relationship between two Classes that offer
>>> a mechanism for referencing partitioned data spaces on HTTP
>>> networks :-)
>>>
>> sorry! not really, if I recall correctly an is:InfoService can be anything, on the web or not, a library for instance, a service you can't dereference and use as a dataspace unless you're a human in the real world.
>>
>>
>
> Agreed, equivalentClass is imo wrong but the subclass would be ok, cf Bob's definition and my previous comment at [1]
>
So rdfs:subClassOf it is.
I did say: OR :-)
Kingsley