The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons.
Tom Potter
the small gang that profits from General Relativity
is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
the costs to society of General Relativity.
No doubt, General Relativity is the model of choice,
if one wants to design a time travel machine,
or warp through space machine,
or create worm holes,
or speculate on things beyond man's
capacity to ever experience in time and space,
BUT
if one wants to design things like computers, bridges, mechanisms,
engines,
communications systems and *** GPS Systems ***,
General Relativity is an enormous waste of time, money and resources.
Although any competent systems engineer KNOWS that
General Relativity is not, and was not, essential to the GPS system,
the same small gang that profits
in reputation and income from General Relativity
constantly make such a claim.
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/HTML/wrong.html
"GTR isn't working in the GPS": this simply isn't so; see these
papers.
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0507121
Introducing Relativity in Global Navigation Satellite Systems
Authors: J.-F. Pascual-Sanchez
(Submitted on 28 Jul 2005 (v1), last revised 13 Dec 2006 (this
version, v3))
Abstract: Today, the Global Navigation Satellite Systems, used as
global positioning systems, are the GPS and the GLONASS. They are
based on a Newtonian model and hence they are only operative when
several relativistic effects are taken into account. The most
important relativistic effects (to order 1/c^2) are: the Einstein
gravitational blue shift effect of the satellite clock frequency
(Equivalence Principle of General Relativity) and the Doppler red
shift of second order,
due to the motion of the satellite (Special Relativity).
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/index.html
The Global Positioning System (GPS) uses accurate, stable atomic
clocks in satellites and on the ground to provide world-wide position
and time determination. These clocks have gravitational and motional
frequency shifts which are so large that, without carefully accounting
for numerous relativistic effects, the system would not work.
Note that the GTR charlatans constantly try to con the masses into
thinking
that the effects of distance (Hubble Effect),
velocity (Doppler Effect),
and acceleration (Galileo Effect)
on the frequency of oscillating systems,
are General Relativity effects.
So far, I haven't seen any effort on their part
to claim the GTR must be used to compensate for
temperature, humidity, jerk, snap, crackle and pop effects.
As can be see from reading Chris Hillman's web site,
he aggressively attacks General Relative critics PERSONALLY,
rather than simply demonstrate a few cost effective uses of GTR.
One would think that if the GTR promoters possessed
such powerful, esoteric knowledge, that they would use their
knowledge to make a few billion dollars in the free market,
and they would not have be on the taxpayer's dole.
Note that in trying to discredit GTR critics,
Chris Hillman used the word "crank" more than thirty times,
and used the Web site of an unemployed computer programmer,
who took some data processing classes at a third rate California
college,
as his main reference.
Regarding Chris Hillman's statement:
========================
"The Politics of Anti-Science
In my view, antiscientific activity by organized political pressure
groups has nothing to do with science or reason.
Rather, such activity is motivated by power and fear.
Fear:
On the one hand, some people fear (sometimes correctly, often not)
that science is somehow directly "contradicting"
the validity of their religious or philosophical convictions, and this
has led some religious groups
to condemn such cornerstones of modern science as the theory of
evolution
and the standard Hot Big Bang model of cosmology,
preferring to stick to the literal truth of the creation story told in
the Bible,
or in more subtle ways to dispute the role of science as an arbiter of
"natural truth".
Power:
Science is universally respected, even by those who fear it, and with
good reason:
almost every citizen of the "developed world" recognizes
that nowadays common citizens live better than kings of old
because of the benefits of technology which grew out of basic
scientific research.
Scientists (and mathematicians) have almost become secular demigods,
and it should be no surprise that those religious and political
groups
which are hostile to science but which do not dare to condemn
scientific activity altogether,
have tried to co-opt scientific theories by claiming that these
theories
somehow "prove" the validity of their religious or political beliefs.
=============
As can be seen by the logical fallacies used by Chris Hillman
in his efforts to discredit GTR critics,
the GTR gang is motivated by "power and fear"
(And the taxpayer's money),
and although "Science is universally respected",
charlatans who pretend to possess powerful, esoteric knowledge
and cannot demonstrate this in the free market,
ARE NOT.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
OsherD
> General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
> that wastes time, money and minds on such
> pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
> rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
>
> A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
> Tom Potter
I agree with Tom Potter. Apparently they've even got Sam Wormley
punting for them if I read his reply to my last Quantum Gravity
post correctly (unless one of the trolls is using his name now).
Wormley has kept away from criticizing ANYBODY until now for
years, and he suddenly calls me a troll in citing Eric Gisse and posts
a site that tells not to respond to trolls! But Gisse hasn't
replied to me either until now (at least, not under the name Gisse)!
If I read Wormley correctly, a "good little boy" like himself
just emails other people's articles to sci.physics to "inform" them
without criticizing anybody's theory. I've actually emailed
sci.physics on about 3 occasions saying that I appreciated his
articles, which posts never got any reply from him! He not only
avoids "controversy", but avoids replying to positive emails by
"controversial" figures. That would put him at about the mental
level of a 7 year old, I guess (actually, reading his post today
replying to me does seem to indicate some writing disturbance
in his sentence structure).
See my next post on my Quantum Gravity thread.
Osher
Eric Gisse
[...]
With 8 websites, one would think you wouldn't post so much in a
newsgroup that even you admit does not like you.
Sam Wormley
> As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
> the small gang that profits from General Relativity
> is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
> the costs to society of General Relativity.
>
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Alie...@gmail.com
> As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
> the small gang that profits from General Relativity
You're stealing material from Pentcho Valev now?
Would you care to explain exactly what profit is being made now, and
by whom, that could not be made if Relativity were publicly falsified?
Would you care to explain exactly what profit could be made, and by
whom, if Relativity were publicly falsified that isn't being made now?
Mark L. Fergerson
OsherD
> Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
> understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
>From Osher Doctorow: Potter is presumably in a different time zone or
away on some chore, but I'll be glad to reply to your post which makes
trolls look innocent (that's a new one - the "Innocent Troll,"
presented by Jane Fonda and George Soros whose youth was spent in the
Nazi SS). If you understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment? Do you want people to give you attention? No? Gee, the
first case of a "really humanitarian physicist" in history! If
you're doing it for humanity, how is it that you classify as a troll
somebody who merely presents a theory of his own (like me) that
doesn't agree with the "Mainstream" theory? Is your definition of
humanity the "Mainstream" or "majority," and if so, where do you plan
to hide when the Minorities overrun you?
Osher
OsherD
> With 8 websites, one would think you wouldn't post so much in a
> newsgroup that even you admit does not like you.
>From Osher Doctorow:
Listen, Gisse, "newsgroups" don't dislike people. Your Plurality-
Orientation is showing. Pluralists think that the Majority overrides
Individuals and in fact that the Majority is like a chemical compound,
"greater than the sum of its parts". BS! Humanity, nations, ethnic
groups, religious groups, irreligious groups, interest groups, and so
on, are nothing but a certain number of Individuals who are partly
communicating and partly just expressing themselves, but there's
nothing "super-Individual" about that. Take away each Individual,
and nothing is left.
The Academic world is no exception. You think that Academic Freedom
as enunciated by the Association of University Professors overrides
Individuals because a group proposed it and approved it?
Try this exercise. Whenever you look at a forest, try to see at
least one tree in it and focus on that tree, and then on a different
tree, and so on, each for a few seconds. Then repeat except that
this time you can look at the forest "as a whole", sort of
"globally". Which is the "real" picture? The real picture is the
Individuals, not just "Me First, Number One," but each Individual,
every Individual. There isn't anything else "in between them". The
global picture is an illusion because the human brain can't focus on
hundreds or thousands or millions of Individuals simultaneously, but
it can try to focus on at least one at a time when viewing a Plurality
(one other than oneself).
Now you might begin to understand life and perception and reality, and
I doubt whether you'll want to keep calling people who disagree with
the majority "trolls". Trolls are people who, like you, criticize
other email posters without provocation for liking or disliking
theories or alleged facts that the Majority has an opposite opinion
on. Now take that back to Fairbanks, Alaska, and stuff it into your
igloo. Your ice is melting fast, and the wolf inside is getting
loose.
Osher
Eric Gisse
what the fuck are you talking about
Tom Potter
Here is some of your billions of tax dollars
being wasted to rationalize a non-viable model of reality.
If the people who hype General Relativity
are privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge,
I wonder why they don't prove this by investing their own money
in free market projects using their powerful knowledge???
I wonder how much General Relativity would be hyped,
and how much of the tax payers money would be spent,
and how much educational time would be spent on General Relativity
if it was formulated by Uncle Remus or Mohammed Ali?
==============
"A new concept for an experiment to test the predictions of Einstein's
relativity more precisely than ever before is being developed by
scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL).
The experiment, called Laser Astrometric Test Of Relativity (LATOR),
would look at how the sun's gravity deflects beams of laser light
emitted by the two mini-satellites."
==========
The Gravity Probe B mission will test two important aspects of
Einstein's theory of General Relativity.
Measuring very precisely the magnitudes of frame dragging and geodetic
effects is the double objective of the Relativity Mission. It will be
carried out by GP-B, scheduled for launch in 2002, 87 years after
Einstein completed work on his General Theory of Relativity.
What was GP-A?
It was a completely different test of gravity and relativity that NASA
flew in 1976. Part of Einstein's special and general theories of
relativity holds that changes in gravity and speed will alter the
speed at which time flows. This involves the famous Paradox of the
Twins.
==============
LIGO, with detectors in Livingston, LA, and Hanford, WA, is currently
the most sensitive gravitational-wave detector in the world. Some of
our members work on LIGO data analysis and are members of the LIGO
Scientific Collaboration. We are very actively involve in LISA, a
joint NASA/ESA project to fly a gravitational-wave detector in space.
Time-delay interferometry (TDI), a key technology for making LISA
work, was developed by two of our group members, who also work on
applications of TDI to other space measurements.
Tests of General Relativity that we are involved with include Lunar
Laser Ranging, studies of the Pioneer anomaly, and the proposed LATOR
mission. Our research also includes analysis of gamma-ray data to
better understand the properties and environments of black holes and
neutron stars.
===========
LIGO and GEO are complex experiments that need a lot of money and time
to run, as demonstrated by the need for Einstein@Home. However, if
gravitational waves are detected, they will show the universe in a
completely new light.
Most of the things we know about the universe we learned from studying
it with light. Light is the only source of information we have, for
instance, from distant objects in space such as galaxies.
Gravitational waves would be an additional source of information from
distant objects. They would give us information on objects that don't
emit light, like black holes, and on how massive objects are moving
and colliding.
============
Williams, James G.
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Pasadena, CA
Improving Lunar Laser Ranging Tests of Gravitational Theory
Turyshev, Slava G.
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Pasadena, CA
Laser Astrometric Test of Relativity (LATOR) Mission Studies
Reasenberg, Robert D.
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory
Cambridge, MA
A Galilean Laboratory Test of the Equivalence Principle Leading to a
Space Station Experiment
Gundlach, Jens H.
University of Washington
Seattle, WA
Preparation for Space: Torsion Balances and Equivalence Principle
Tests for NASA
============
Also, the Rossi Explorer has observed some of the more exotic
predictions of General Relativity. First in 1998 and again with better
accuracy in 2001, scientists observed the frame-dragging phenomenon.
Einstein's equations predicted that a spinning object with strong
gravity would take spacetime along for a spin with it. Scientists
observed matter orbiting around a black hole like children running on
a merry-go-round, its orbit hastened by the shifting of space.
Future X-ray observatories -- some in development, others proposed for
launch at the close of the next decade -- will move us closer to a
black hole, step by step. Thus, they will allow us to test General
Relativity.
==========
The Constellation-X mission, proposed for a 2008 launch, will observe
black holes accretion disks with such resolution that scientists can
track the fate of plasma circling the black hole, noting changes in
its "broad iron line" spectral emission. Currently, scientists can
only calculate an average of all the X-ray flares around a black hole;
the broad iron line is a composite of many flares. Constellation-X
will be able to collect enough data from a single flare to test the
math of General Relativity,
===========
MAXIM is an ambitious mission to image a black hole event horizon by
2020. With an image of the event horizon and accretion disk as a point
of reference, scientists would be able to determine exactly from where
X rays of varying energies arise. Knowing precise distances from the
black hole to X rays of specific energies would allow for accurate
tests of Einstein's math.
=========
Astronomers using NASA's Rossi X-ray Timing Explorer (RXTE) spacecraft
reported on November 6 that they have observed a black hole that is
literally dragging space and time around itself as it rotates. This
bizarre effect, called "frame dragging," is the first evidence to
support a prediction made in 1918 using Einstein's Theory of Theory of
Relativity.
==========
LLR tracking of corner cube retroreflectors on the moon has verified
the Equivalence Principle of General Relativity. SLR measurements to
two laser satellites in special orbits (i.e., LAGEOS 1 and 3) has been
proposed as an effective means for measuring the Lense-Thirring "drag"
of the reference frame.
===========
The most ambitious effort to measure the predicted gravitational waves
is the Laser Interferometric Gravitational Observatory (LIGO), coming
on-line in 2000. [See the LIGO web site] It may locate as many as 300
neutron star mergers per year, but "a single observation would be
phenomenal," Swesty said. "LIGO, long prior to coalescense, will
detect masses of the individual objects. That, combined with what we
learn from the coalescense signal in the models, could really help us
to pin down the structure of neutron stars."
With the additional potential of using gravitational wave strength to
mark the universe's expansion rate, "this is an auspicious era for
astronomical research," Saylor said. "It is like when Galileo looked
through the universe with his telescope. We will be looking at the
universe through the lens of gravitational waves."
Other co-investigators include Steven Ashby, Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory; Ian Foster, Argonne National Laboratory; Michael
Norman, NCSA/UIUC; and Clifford Will, Washington University.
==============
I wonder why Steven Ashby, Clifford Will, and a few others
work so hard to con folks into believing that General Relativity
was essential to the GPS system,
and why they try to discredit the folks who expose this lie,
by calling them "cranks",
and asserting that these folks are "anti-science",
rather than "anti-charlatan"???
Tom Potter
Here is some of your billions of tax dollars
==============
==========
What was GP-A?
==============
===========
============
============
==========
===========
=========
==========
===========
==============
--
Tom Potter
18564$_c5.5824@attbi_s22...
Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
WASTED on a lousy model.
For example, after Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I just noticed in the news today that the DNA model
was recently used to create a new form of rice,
that will keep hundreds of thousands of kids
from going blind.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
One would think that if the GTR Charlatans
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of dollars from the taxpayers.
A mind (Or an eye) is a terrible thing to waste.
Y.Porat
--------------
the notion that space is curved
is one of Einstein s biggest flops
though special relativity is right and works
space is nothing and cant have any properties exept
hosting matter
time ios nothing but
motion or translation comparison so some chosen
motion refference object
the fact is that curved movement is inly
associated with mass near by existance
points that it is not sapce that makes the job
it ismass and wahtisin that mass
i suggested the circlon
a basic aprticle that moves naturally in closed circles
and it is pnly those particles that do it
not all particles
big aprticles move as newton said
in straght lines!!
i wonswer if there is any experiantal evidence
that a big aprticle moves anturally
in curved lines (if not actioned by any force
time travel abckin tiome is of course
anotherphysics stupidity!!
provided you understand my definition of time
(you cant draw back the motionof all the universe
!!
it is a mad and physics nonsense
of literatire writers of science fiction idea !!!
and Potter is right
there are a lot of people who make money
on SR unjustified !!
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------
Eric Gisse
> "Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:M8nPh.
>
> 18564$_c5.5824@attbi_s22...
>
> > Tom Potter wrote:
> >> As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
> >> the small gang that profits from General Relativity
> >> is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
> >> the costs to society of General Relativity.
>
> > Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
> > understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
>
> Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
> WASTED on a lousy model.
In what way is it lousy, Tom?
[snip boring diatribe]
Yes Tom, we know. As a salesman, you don't like or even understand
basic science unless it generates a product. As a result, you think
all research is a waste of time. You don't have to keep reminding us
of your ignorance every fucking time you post.
Sam Wormley
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:M8nPh.
>> Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
>> understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
>
> Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
> WASTED on a lousy model.
>
In what way is GTR a lousy model? How is it pinching your balls?
hanson
news:1175327754.0...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
"Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
>
Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
>
I agree with Tom Potter. Apparently they've even got Sam Wormley
>
Potter is presumably in a different time zone or away
George Soros whose youth was spent in the Nazi SS
>
.... ahaha... AHAHAHA...Osher, you too seem to be in different
time zone, for several reasons. What does Soros have to do with
GR?... Most of the 400'000 web-sites say that Soros is Jewish,
born as George Schwartz . So, since when were there Jews
in the Nazi SS?... ahahahaha... But, OTOH, Soros maybe an
in-law to Alan Schwartz, your bosom buddy Uncle Al... ahaha...
Uncle Al ought to hit on his bro-in-kin George for some $MM to
finance his, Al's fabulous inventions, like his organic cockroach
poison, his Kg-sized Diamonds, the Eotvoes thing, and now the
chiro-caloric Benzil experiment... ahahahaha....
>
[Osher to Sam]
If you [Sam] understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment? Do you want people to give you attention? No?
Gee, the first case of a "really humanitarian physicist" in history!
If you're doing it for humanity, how is it that you classify as a troll
somebody who merely presents a theory of his own (like me) that
doesn't agree with the "Mainstream" theory? Is your definition of
humanity the "Mainstream" or "majority," and if so, where do you
plan to hide when the Minorities overrun you?
> Osher
>
.... ahahahaha... Osher your complaints against Sam may have
some foundation for you are the only one amongst the posters
with a teacher background who doesn't proselytize status quo PC
shit. Kudos to you for that. However, your "Minorities overrun"
notion, that is a real long shot when it comes to GR. You might as
well hope that Jews become Moslems and visa versa... GR is a
religion, a belief system, that strayed away from the empirical and
real world physics, as shown in
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
wherein it says
GR is even worse of a con then is SR, because it is nothing but circular
dance and playing around with Newton's revered G. As long as Einstein
uses Newton's G in his equations he carries with him , unavoidably, all the
baggage, the short comings and defects attributed to Newton's G that
REL is trying to get (unsuccessfully) rid of.
.... ....
So, GR = BFD... and it doesn't change that fact no matter how much
they twist and convolute the situation with frame dragging, matrices or
barks & repeats of "GPS works", like loudmouthed fanatic-Al does.
Nor does it matter how many Einstein Dinglerry-come-latelies do write
lengthy Ashby type treatises decades later in the hope to garnish some
irrational fame with/from REL. All of them will remain by definition under
the towering influence and governing hand of Newton and his G from
which they so far have tried to escape in absolute, not relative, vain...
So the only truly positive fact is that they TRY to ESCAPE. That's good.
....
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
# =3= of =8= official reasons in the above links show that even the
mastser himself has doubts. Einstein said close to the end of his life
in 1954 to Besso:
"I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based
on the field concept, i. e., on continuous structures. In that
case nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation
theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics." -- A.E.
>
ahahaha... ahahaha... ahahahanson
Androcles
As promised, Sagnac is now released in its updated version:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/Sagnac.htm
"Tom Roberts" <tjrobe...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:IvuPh.4272$u03....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
> ca314159 wrote:
>> Does a classical analysis of the Michelson-Morley Experiment
>> suffice to explain its outcome?
>
> No.
What a fuckin' ignorant liar Roberts is!
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message news:PdGPh.1647$_43.1604@trnddc02...
> Kosher "OsherD" <mdoc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1175327754.0...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
> "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
> that wastes time, money and minds on such
> pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
> rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
> A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
> Tom Potter
Roberts's mind is a terrible thing that *should* be wasted. Well,
it is anyway, Lucent Technologies dumped the moron.
BioFreak
> If the people who hype General Relativity
> are privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge,
GR is only hyped by non-physicist sorry-asses who never
forgave themselves and the world that they chose a
non-physics major once they had the chance. This pit as
well as every vile spot in USA is full of them.
Physicists take one course of it (or two) and then get
busy doing physics. They only hear of GR again from the
sorry-ass "engineer" losers who thought they had the
world and were left looking at themselves as nothing
but card-carrying slaves with a smile.
--
"mofradAtesh khubeh ammA mordeshur tarkibesho
bebareh."
Sam Wormley
Or sales persons, as the case may be.
The_Man
> As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
> the small gang that profits from General Relativity
> is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
> the costs to society of General Relativity.
What are the "costs"? How much money is spent each year for research
in GR?
>
> No doubt, General Relativity is the model of choice,
> if one wants to design a time travel machine,
> or warp through space machine,
> or create worm holes,
> or speculate on things beyond man's
> capacity to ever experience in time and space,
So you have finally abandoned all hope of proving that SR or GR are
incorrect. Now your "strongest" argument is that they are not
"practical."
>
> BUT
>
> if one wants to design things like computers, bridges, mechanisms,
> engines,
> communications systems and *** GPS Systems ***,
> General Relativity is an enormous waste of time, money and resources.
And apparently, knowledge of mathematics, chemistry, and other
physics, from what you little you know.
>
> Although any competent systems engineer KNOWS that
> General Relativity is not, and was not, essential to the GPS system,
> the same small gang that profits
> in reputation and income from General Relativity
> constantly make such a claim.
How many GPS systems have YOU designed?
>
<snipped nonsense>
> and although "Science is universally respected",
> charlatans who pretend to possess powerful, esoteric knowledge
> and cannot demonstrate this in the free market,
> ARE NOT.
>
> After Newton's model,
> there were immediate and rapid advances
> in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
>
> After Maxwell's model
> there were immediate and rapid advances
> in chemistry, electricity, etc.
Maxwell's equations - 1861. When was the first practical use of
Maxwells' equations in technology? Radio? Marconi didn;t get a patent
until 1896. The first radio program was not broadcast until 1906. Wide-
spread use of radio was not until 1922. You call that "rapid"???
>
> After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
> there were immediate and rapid advances
> in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
> the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
>
> Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
> and it continues to generate more hype and heat
> than light and advances.
>
> General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
> that wastes time, money and minds on such
> pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
> rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
How would you know? Angry becuase GR has developed a better method of
cold selling?
>
> A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
>
It is a shame what happened to YOURS.
Tom Potter
>>> understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
>>
>> WASTED on a lousy model.
>
> In what way is GTR a lousy model? How is it pinching your balls?
As a guy who thinks that the time and money spent on projects
should be determine by the free market,
I hate to see the taxpayer's money wasted
on trying to rationalize a 100 year old model
that generates more hype and heat
than light and advances.
A model should be judged by it's utility.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
One would think that if the GTR Charlatans
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of dollars.
As can be seen by the personal attack tactics
of the gang that hype General Relativity,
it really "pinch<s thier> balls"
when anyone points out that GTR is a waste of resources.
Note that Newton's model, and Maxwell's model,
and the DNA model have continuously provided enormous benefits to
mankind,
whereas General Relativity continues to waste time, money and minds,
and be a drain on the resources of society.
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Note that Newton's model, and Maxwell's model,
> and the DNA model have continuously provided enormous benefits to
> mankind,
> whereas General Relativity continues to waste time, money and minds,
> and be a drain on the resources of society.
GR works loon. GPS, Hulse Taylor, Pound and Rebka.
Stick to frothing.
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
Tom Potter
It is interesting to see that "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
is ignorant of the fact that numerous models are "correct"
in limited areas, but are of no value to society.
And as can be seen, "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
is also ignorant of the fact that most of the areas where General
Relativity
is supposed to be "correct"
are beyond man's capacity
to EVER experience in time and space.
If something is too far away in time and space to
ever be experienced it is of no value to rational, intelligent
creatures.
Can you imagine a person or a government getting all bent out of
shape,
and wasting time, money, resources and energy
on things predicted by some model to
be happening billions of light years away?
And as can be seen, "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
is also ignorant of the fact that Einstein copied the
maths and methods of the emerging stress analysis field
and tried to extend these principles and methods
to the entire universe.
And as can be seen, "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
is also ignorant of the fact that whereas Newton's model,
Maxwell's Model and the DNA model
give man the tools to shape his future,
whereas General Relativity does not allow man,
who is inside the model, to affect the model.
In other words, useful models of reality
must assume that man is a sentient being
who can shape his world.
General Relativity puts man inside of the
object (The universe) being modeled,
and treats him as a hunk of mass.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Eric Gisse
[...]
As usual, crackpotter shits on science he does not and can not
understand.
Sam Wormley
> As a guy who thinks that the time and money spent on projects
> should be determine by the free market,
>
> I hate to see the taxpayer's money wasted
> on trying to rationalize a 100 year old model
> that generates more hype and heat
> than light and advances.
>
Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
Why, Potter, do you give a shit? You don't understand GTR... Why do
you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
Sam Wormley
>
> It is interesting to see that "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
> is ignorant of the fact that numerous models are "correct"
> in limited areas, but are of no value to society.
>
> And as can be seen, "me_so_horneee" (The_Man)
> is also ignorant of the fact that most of the areas where General
> Relativity
> is supposed to be "correct"
> are beyond man's capacity
> to EVER experience in time and space.
>
Says, the former salesperson, Potter, who doesn't understand GTR
and can't articulate its use to predict effects on satellite clocks.
Y.Porat
>
> - Show quoted text -
--------------
GR has nothing to do with chemistry
you are parroting and mumbling !!
Y.Porat
---------------------
Tom Potter
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1175498346.3...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
"Y.Porat" makes a good point when he points out that GR
is not useful for chemistry,
and for that matter electronics, mechanics,
or for any cost-effective, practical purpose,
that can provide benefits to mankind
within the time and space allocated to man.
No doubt, GR is the model of choice
if you want to speculate on time travel, worm holes,
gravity waves, warping where no man has gone before,
rubber rulers and clocks, and
speculate on times and spaces
man has never experienced,
nor will ever experience.
I just noticed in the news that the DNA model
was used to develop a new strain of rice
that will prevent 500,000 kids from going blind
every year!
Can you imagine the benefits to mankind
if the billions of dollars wasted trying to rationalize GR
was spent on DNA research?????
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Tom Potter
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1175483588.4...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
It appears that Eric Gisse
has a serious reading comprehension problem.
As can be seen from my web site
which features a unique Physical Property Chart
that graphically shows the relationships between the physical
properties
much as the Periodic Chart shows the relationships between the
elements,
and from my many posts on science in the news groups,
and from my many years of teaching young people, like Eric,
about science at the college, high school, military school, night
school levels
and science professionals at the seminar level,
I love science!
Apparently what Eric is unable to comprehend is:
that I "understand" and "shit on"
efforts to worship people, things, models and theories,
that have a negative, rather than a positive affect on society,
and on charlatans and phonies
who hype things for personal, national, racial and religious reasons.
A theory or model should be able to prove itsself
in a free and open market.
For example:
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
One would think that if the GTR Charlatans
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of the taxpayers dollars.
It is sad
that so many young people, like Eric Gisse,
have been brainwashed into worshipping General Relativity,
and are wasting their time, their Daddy's money, and their minds
purchasing information that they will never be able to
capitalize on, in the free market.
Of course, some of the General Relativity altar boys
will become General Relativity Charlatan-Priests,
and will be able to obtain a living
at the expense of the taxpayers.
Good for them.
Bad for the rest of mankind.
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:LF%Ph.
25697$oV.25105@attbi_s21...
I was disappointed to see that "Sam Wormley" used his
"boiler plate response" of attacking the messenger,
rather than addressing the message
in a rational, intelligent, MORAL way,
and his crazy notion that folks
who have not wasted a lot of time, money, energy and resources
studying astrology, voodoo, feng shai, cold fusion, etc.
should not care about, nor "condemn something <they>don't understand".
I, for one, think that things of value
can stand alone in a free and open market,
and I will be looking for the day
that the General Relativity Charlatans
(Who make all kinds of claims about GTR,
and personally attack critics of GTR.)
get off the taxpayers dole
and make a few billion bucks in the free market.
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:CL%Ph.
25236$_c5.5084@attbi_s22...
As I have pointed out in the news groups,
many things affect the observed frequency of an oscillator,
distance (Hubble Effect),
acceleration ( Galileo Effect),
velocity (Doppler Effect),
jerk (Wormley Effect),
temperature (temperture effect),
pressure (Piezo-effect),
etc.
Of course, these effects were taken into consideration
by the people who designed the GPS system,
and they are taken into account by the
technicians, engineers, and users of the system.
For example as the acceleration "g",
is a function of the distance a body is from the Earth,
the designers took the Galileo Effect into account
when designing the GPS system.
It is interesting to see that General Relativity
lumps all of these effects (And more)
into one extremely difficult to solve equation,
and then in order to use the results has to
break out, and account for all of the effects
such as the Hubble Effect, the Doppler Effect, the Galileo Effect,
etc.
When you have a set of orthogonal properties,
it is more simple, more clear, and more practical,
more time expedient, and less costly,
to attack each orthogonal property separately,
than it is to mix them all together,
and then resort them out again later.
Using GTR to solve these problems
is like making sausage, and then
separating out the components to
find the weight of the end product.
In other words,
while it would take a layman a few minutes to determine
the observed frequency of a body
using the combined Hubble, Doppler, and Galileo effects,
it would take a GTR Guru days to determine it using GTR.
And of course, some GTR Gurus on the taxpayer dole
lump up to 13 real and imagined effects into the GTR model,
and make some real serious sausage, that accounts for
frequency variations far beyond man's capacity
to measure, or even compute.
Don Stockbauer
> "Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:CL%Ph.
Hmmmmmmm.......Doesn't it seem like to be deserving of the name
General Relativity should include ALL relationships between all
entities in the Universe (at least out to the causal horizon)?????
Tom Potter
>
> Hmmmmmmm.......Doesn't it seem like to be deserving of the name
> General Relativity should include ALL relationships between all
>
> - Show quoted text -
The problem is that General Relativity includes everything,
EXCEPT the main player, man!
Einstein basically took the maths and methods
of stress analysis, and applied them to the universe,
rather than to some uninhabited, inanimate object.
This took one or a few easily understood
and easy to compute problems,
and lumped them into one huge,
difficult, if not impossible, to solve sausage,
in which the ingredients had to be re-sorted out,
and weighed (Measured/quantized),
and as it eliminated sentient man,
it put the world back into the old auguring mode it was in
before the Lunar Society took Newton's Equations
and used them to forge the Industrial revolution,
and teach man that he was not a plaything of the Gods,
by a sentient being, that had models that allowed them
to understand and control their world.
Until the Lunar Society approach to Newton's Equations,
the whole world used auguring to model the future.
General Relativity removes man from the equation,
and puts him in a stressed container that he has no
control over. It is a return to the old auguring days,
and not only complicates the world view,
but it takes away man's orientation to control his world.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Don Stockbauer
So this is why second order cybernetics needs to be emphasized, where
the observer (The "I") (introspection, self-awareness) is paramount.
Sam Wormley
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:LF%Ph.
> 25697$oV.25105@attbi_s21...
>> Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
>> Why, Potter, do you give a shit? You don't understand GTR... Why do
>> you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
>
> I was disappointed to see that "Sam Wormley" used his
> "boiler plate response" of attacking the messenger,
> rather than addressing the message
> in a rational, intelligent, MORAL way,
>
I'm asking you a question, Potter: Why, Potter, do you give a
shit? Especially since you have no understanding of GTR! Why do
Sam Wormley
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:CL%Ph.
>> Says, the former salesperson, Potter, who doesn't understand GTR
>> and can't articulate its use to predict effects on satellite clocks.
>
> As I have pointed out in the news groups,
> many things affect the observed frequency of an oscillator,
> distance (Hubble Effect),
> acceleration ( Galileo Effect),
> velocity (Doppler Effect),
> jerk (Wormley Effect),
> temperature (temperture effect),
> pressure (Piezo-effect),
> etc.
>
Says, Potter, who doesn't understand GTR and can't articulate its
Eric Gisse
[snip junk]
Every time it is more of that boilerplate response tacked on with shit
about how you don't understand relativity.
Tom Potter
31st Annual Precise Time and Time Interval (PTTI) Meeting,
the "gravitational red shift" numbers for
"both general relativity and the quasi-Newtonian approach"
yield the same results, as far as frequency shift is concerned.
"According to general relativity, frequency gravitational shifts are
the
consequence of time retardation in the vicinity of massive bodies.
Time
retardation must cause the same relative shifts of frequencies for
oscillators of all types.
According to the quasi-Newtonian approach, frequency gravitational
shifts
are caused by changes in parameters of oscillators: near a massive
body the
effective mass of classical oscillators is increased, and the energy
levels
of quantum oscillators are lowered. Thus, gravitational shifts in the
cases
of classical and quantum oscillators have different natures, and the
shift
predicted in the classical case are half the shift in the quantum
case,
which in a linear approximation coincides with the prediction of
general
relativity.
Note that both general relativity and the quasi-Newtonian approach
agree
with the experiments performed so far: gravitational effects are tiny,
and
they have only been observed with the help of precise quantum
oscillators.
But recently an ultra-stable quartz; i.e., classical, oscillator
became
available. It would be of interest to compare a quartz oscillator with
a
quantum frequency standard onboard a plane, searching for a variation
of
their frequency difference which is correlated with a change in
altitude.
According to general relativity, the difference in their
gravitational
shifts should be equal to zero. According to the quasi-Newtonian
approach, a
20-km change in altitude should cause an effect on the order of 1.1 x
10-l*.
It could be detected by an ultra-stable quartz oscillator and by a
transportable H-maser for averaging times of about IO s with the
sampling
time, i.e., the period of altitude change is several minutes long.
An absence of difference in gravitational relative shifts of
frequencies of
quartz and hydrogen standards could be treated as an additional
argument in
favor of time retardation in the vicinity of massive bodies."
The "classical" "gravitational red shift" equation is:
f = f0 * ( 1 + 1/2 * g * distance / C^2)
where "g" is about 9.8 meters per seconds^2
"distance" is about 10,000 kilometers or 10,000,000 meters,
and "C" is about 300,000,000 meters per second,
in the case of the GPS system in Earth orbit.
* Note that I have used the popular approximate values ("about").
Computing we get: 1.00000000054444444,
and subtracting one (1.0..) to get the difference,
we get the 5.4*10^-10 which is basically the number used
( Allowing for the distance from the surface of the Earth,
rather than the center, and for the variation in permittivity of the
ionosphere.) in the GPS system to offset the "chip rate" (Frequency)
of the "P code" offset.
It is interesting to see that the GTR Zombies and Charlatans
make all kinds of phony claims about how GTR is essential to the GPS
system,
and they don't seem to comprehend why it is desirable
(But not essential.) to have the "P-code" frequency offset.
I, for one,
would like to see one of the GTR Zombies make an actual post about
this,
rather than post laundry lists of useless URL's.
make phony claims about GTR,
and try make the messenger the issue
in order to avoid exposing their ignorance.
As I pointed out in my post,
many things affect the observed frequency of an oscillator,
distance (Hubble Effect),
acceleration ( Galileo Effect),
velocity (Doppler Effect),
jerk (Wormley-Gisse Effect),
temperature (temperture effect),
pressure (Piezo-effect), etc.
Hopefully Sam Wormley will impress us with his
knowledge of General Relativity,
by computing the these frequency offsets to satellite oscillators
due to each of these effects, and a few of the other
claimed GTR effects, and show how they are compensated for
in the satellites and in stationary and moving GPS receivers
doug
same time. Even then, the answer is "so what?"
Tom Potter wrote:
> As can be seen from the following excerpt from a paper given at the
> 31st Annual Precise Time and Time Interval (PTTI) Meeting,
> the "gravitational red shift" numbers for
> "both general relativity and the quasi-Newtonian approach"
> yield the same results, as far as frequency shift is concerned.
>
No. It says the classical shift is half the GTR shift.
This is the abstract of a 1999 meeting. The author does not seem
to believe in relativity and is proposing an experiment to
disprove it. Nothing has shown up since this abstract on the
internet by this author. There is no proof here, only speculation.
Why bother to present this when it just weakens any arguement you
might want to present?
Eric Gisse
[...]
Perhaps Tom Potter would get a clue and open a textbook on relativity.
I would post links that give experimental support, but apparently you
can't be bothered to read those.
The whole reason people care about relativity is because it predicts
correctly. Sure certain approximations make the application of the
whole theory an exercise in irritation, but that is no reason to dump
GR into the sea like you seem to desire.
I really wish you would stop posting, Tom. You have no appreciation
for the sciences whatsoever. You do not enjoy science nor do you have
any respect for basic research. You see no utility in understanding
the universe for the sake of understanding - almost every
technological device you own is the product of a theory that was
"useless" at the time. The irony of this is lost on you.
tj Frazir
That would be money laundering and money waisted so the-ings that works
dont get funded.
Nasa likes secret shit because classified junk pays even if its junk.
Anything with the GOV can controle ...
Jeff…Relf
The government is like the weather, everyone talks about it
but no one ever does anything about it.
Jeff…Relf
nor understand -- truly understand -- time without General Relativity.
Just as evolution ( and not the Bible ) explains why we do what we do,
General Relativity explains why space-ship earth does what it does.
At your age, you can hardly change yourself...
Yet you think you can change our minds,
plus the collective mind known as " the government " ?
Speaking of origins.... Here's my " creation myth "...
The cosmos is truly causal ( i.e. falsely random ),
so all changes ( including so-called choices ) are nominal.
Time is truly spatial ( i.e. falsely directional ).
Energy is never created nor destroyed, but it does dissipate.
Eventually, it dissipates to the point that we humans can't use it.
Although the energy still exists, it's " Spent ", in our opinion.
Like a virus, cars can't live without us, their hosts.
Likewise, we're completely dependent on our hosts.
( e.g. Our rooms, society, the earth, the solar system, etc. )
Our thoughts are finite, discrete and cyclic, so we " enjoy "
pseudorandomness, PseudoEntropy ( a.k.a. the false arrow of time ),
delusions, paranoia, etc. It's just the nature of the machine/beast.
Humans have the same " purpose " as cars and viruses: consumption.
All I do, all anyone does... all anything ever does... is consume.
By definition, the cosmos is a closed system
and the energy in it is continuously, spontaneously, irreversibly,
being spent. That's entropy, the second law of thermodynamics.
Many have speculated ( hoped, really )
that the known Universe is an open system,
" plugged into the wall ", so to speak.
But all empirical evidence suggests that this is not the case.
For example, 13.7 Giga_Years ago the CMB blackbody
was 3 thousand Kelvin... today it's 3 Kelvin.
Because the energy of the cosmos is forever being " spent "...
" life " emerges.
Eric Gisse
[snip mewlings]
Why do you continue to post to a newsgroup that does not want you?
Jeff…Relf
Eric Gisse
> Who wants you here, Gisse ?
More people than you
^_^
Tom Potter
> On Apr 2, 8:20 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
> Perhaps Tom Potter would get a clue and open a textbook on relativity.
> I would post links that give experimental support, but apparently you
> can't be bothered to read those.
>
> The whole reason people care about relativity is because it predicts
> correctly.
What does General Relativity do that can't be done
faster, cheaper, and with less resources than
other models?
No doubt, GTR is the model of choice
if one wants to create a worm hole,
time travel, warp through space, speculate about
gravity wave, gravitons, rubber clocks and rulers,
and the birth and death of the universe,
BUT
if someone is interested in spaces and times
accessible to man, and one is interested in
improving the lot of his fellow man,
General Relativity a waste of time, money, resources and minds.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
--
Tom Potter
"Jeff...Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> Hi Tom_Potter, We cannot explore the origins of the Universe
> nor understand -- truly understand -- time without General Relativity.
As I have pointed out,
rational, intelligent creatures
don't waste their time, energy, and resources
speculating about things far beyond their capacity
to ever experience in space and time.
And as I point out,
General Relativity has little or no
cost-effective utility in the world we live in.
For example:
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I must point out that "truly understand"
implies crosscorrelations of exactly one (1) from t(0) to
t(infinity),
and that it is impossible for a thing
with a life span one year,
with a precise data base spanning 100 years
to "truly understand" a time span of 1, 000,000,000,000 years,
and even if it did,
what difference would it make
to the REAL world the thing lived in?
I suggest that when there are far more productive things
that the time, money, and resources could be spent on
than trying to rational General Relativity.
As I mentioned, the DNA model has brought great blessing to mankind
in the form of foods, medicines, building a better historical data
base
(Which maps reality far, far better than the speculations of GTR.),
etc.
and I saw in the news today, that the DNA model has been used
to change blood types so that the blood supply
can be used more efficiently.
The most powerful weapon that the GTR hypers have,
is the constantly repeated lie
that GTR was and is essential to the GPS system.
Tom Potter
"Don Stockbauer" <donsto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:
1175523133.3...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
A good model of one's reality would:
=========================
1. Make "THE" sentient observer "paramount".
2. Allow THE observer to quickly and efficiently
construct a simple, dynamic, working model of his environment
from the input and data available to him.
(The working model would allow the observer to
"work with" the non-sentient things in his environment.)
3. Provide a means of determining if other sentient observers exist.
(I have been trying for over ten years to determine if
other sentient observers exist in the world and in sci.physics.) ;-))
4. Allow for correlations and exchange of data between multiple
sentient observers.
(If in fact multiple sentient observers exist.)
Note that persistent contentless feedback from a suspected sentient
observer,
rather than an exchange of data, tends to indicate that you are
dealing with a
non-sentient object that is only able to reflect back signals that you
send out.
In other words, non-sentient things, however complex,
do have structure, and can be defined by the reflections you get back.
5. Provide a means of determining and modeling
the dynamic transfer functions of other sentient observers.
6. Provide a means of modeling an expansive, positive, enriching
strategy to interact with the sentient and non-sentient elements
in one's environment.
Hopefully there are sentient observers out there,
who comprehend and
can and will react to the foregoing in a SENTIENT way.
(I've got the non-sentient model down pretty tight,
but I am still working on my sentient observer model.)
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Eric Gisse
> "Eric Gisse" <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1175548668.080778.268...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Apr 2, 8:20 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
>
> > Perhaps Tom Potter would get a clue and open a textbook on relativity.
> > I would post links that give experimental support, but apparently you
> > can't be bothered to read those.
>
> > The whole reason people care about relativity is because it predicts
> > correctly.
>
> What does General Relativity do that can't be done
> faster, cheaper, and with less resources than
> other models?
Um, everything?
GR is the only model that predicts all aspects of gravitation
properly. That is all that is required, and GR suffices. Your
inability to understand an admittedly complicated theory is not the
fault of the theory. Theories such as quantum mechanics are no less
complicated - but you don't bitch about them, even though you have no
chance of understanding them either.
The full implementation of QM requires lots of computer and man hours
- but do you bitch?
>
> No doubt, GTR is the model of choice
> if one wants to create a worm hole,
> time travel, warp through space, speculate about
> gravity wave, gravitons, rubber clocks and rulers,
> and the birth and death of the universe,
>
> BUT
>
> if someone is interested in spaces and times
> accessible to man, and one is interested in
> improving the lot of his fellow man,
> General Relativity a waste of time, money, resources and minds.
Yea, because understanding the universe never brought any fruits to
mankind. Oh no!
>
> A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Then why do you continue to do so?
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
Jeff…Relf
Lambda-CDM employs G.R., telling us that
the energy of the known Universe is being " spent ".
In General Relativity it's obvious that
time is truly a spatial dimension ( static, parochial, immutable ).
It's only _ Pseudo _ randomness that makes it seem otherwise.
The spatial nature of time can easily be seen
in the definition of the SI meter, to wit:
Given the definitions of the SI meter and second,
the speed of light is 1.
( i.e. A period's distance over it's duration )
Indeed, in Planck units, it's a unitless 1... flat out !
Using SI's " standard periods " the speed of light is:
" 299792458^-1 = 30.66 periods / 9.19 gigaperiods ".
Now I ask... Where is God in all that ?
If Jesus were alive today he'd be nailed to the cross again
by the same gang of law-obsessed, inhumane stooges.
In conversations were the word " God " is mentioned,
I've found that it often means:
The higher powers that effect your fate.
( e.g. entropy, the market, landlords, cops, judges etc. )
Also, religious people tend to be more optimistic than sober-minded,
using euphemisms like " Heavenly Father " instead of " My Fate ".
Tom Potter
As can be seen,
Gisse thinks [sic] that mankind can profit from
thinking it "understands"
spaces and times that will never be accessible to mankind.
That smacks of parapsychology, remote viewing, ESP, etc. to me.
Hopefully Gisse will use his most powerful imagination
and predict what benefits will come from "understanding"
black holes, the birth of the universe, the death of the universe,
worm holes and time travel,
and predict what time frame this will occur in.
And if he is a rational, intelligent person,
(Only fools and idiots invest resources on lossy projects.)
provide a ball park indication of the
discounted rate of return on investments achieving these goals.
Now it may be that the payoff of General Relativity,
other than getting on the taxpayer dole,
is mental masturbation,
but I suggest that the taxpayers should not have to pay
for people masturbating.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Tom Potter
As can be seen,
Gisse thinks [sic] that mankind can profit from
thinking it "understands"
spaces and times that will never be accessible to mankind.
That smacks of parapsychology, remote viewing, ESP, etc. to me.
Hopefully Gisse will use his most powerful imagination
and predict what benefits will come from "understanding"
black holes, the birth of the universe, the death of the universe,
worm holes and time travel,
and predict what time frame this will occur in.
And if he is a rational, intelligent person,
(Only fools and idiots invest resources on lossy projects.)
provide a ball park indication of the
discounted rate of return on investments achieving these goals.
Now it may be that the payoff of General Relativity,
other than getting on the taxpayer dole,
is mental masturbation,
but I suggest that the taxpayers should not have to pay
for people masturbating.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Bill Snyder
>Who wants you here, Gisse ?
Here's at least one more than wants to see your asinine bullshit.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Don Stockbauer
> "Don Stockbauer" <donstockba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1175523133.334113.292...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The neat thing about cybernetics is that it helps one combine systems
into a metasystem (although this is usually a self-organization thing,
not under our control). Even works for such systems as relativity and
quantum mechanics, combining them into a unified worldview. And other
such systems, like the nations of the Earth. But it's all too good to
be true.
Sam Wormley
> "Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>> GR is the only model that predicts all aspects of gravitation
>> properly. That is all that is required, and GR suffices. Your
>> inability to understand an admittedly complicated theory is not the
>> fault of the theory. Theories such as quantum mechanics are no less
>> complicated - but you don't bitch about them, even though you have no
>> chance of understanding them either.
>>
> As can be seen,
> Gisse thinks [sic] that mankind can profit from
> thinking it "understands"
> spaces and times that will never be accessible to mankind.
>
Potter misses the critical point--"GR is the only model that predicts
all aspects of gravitation properly. That is all that is required, and
GR suffices".
Not surprising as Potter *fails* to understand GR.
Sam Wormley
Potter misses the critical point--"GR is the only model that predicts
all aspects of gravitation properly. That is all that is required, and
Eric Gisse
Don Stockbauer
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> Hi Tom_Potter, We cannot explore the origins of the Universe
> nor understand -- truly understand -- time without General Relativity.
Sadly, you do not understand GR.
> Just as evolution ( and not the Bible ) explains why we do what we do,
> General Relativity explains why space-ship earth does what it does.
>
> At your age, you can hardly change yourself...
> Yet you think you can change our minds,
> plus the collective mind known as " the government " ?
>
> Speaking of origins.... Here's my " creation myth "...
If you replace "creation myth" with "gibbering nonsense" I fully concur.
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
More people than want you.
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_...@Cotse.NET...
Kookfite.
Jeff…Relf
You have access to a sea of information. do you not ?
Yet you read what I write and comment on it. why ?
Uncle Al
Even one person other than Gisse wanting Gisse fills that criterion.
Gisse stays, Relf goes.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Because what you write is so mindblowingly stupid perhaps?
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
> Hi Tom_Potter, How we model time, God and aging, effects our health.
> Lambda-CDM employs G.R., telling us that
> the energy of the known Universe is being " spent ".
Jane, still insisting your nonsense is science?
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What does General Relativity do that can't be done
> faster, cheaper, and with less resources than
> other models?
>
> No doubt, GTR is the model of choice
> if one wants to create a worm hole,
> time travel, warp through space, speculate about
> gravity wave, gravitons, rubber clocks and rulers,
> and the birth and death of the universe,
Whay do you insist on proving your stupidity on a daily basis? Or has
being a salesman all your life rotted your little brain?
Phineas T Puddleduck
> if someone is interested in spaces and times
> accessible to man, and one is interested in
> improving the lot of his fellow man,
> General Relativity a waste of time, money, resources and minds.
Poor potter. Such a small little mind.
Bill Snyder
I have access to miles and miles of streets and highways, but I still
say, "Damn! What inconsiderate bastard let his dog do that?" when I
see a turd on the sidewalk.
Androcles
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:4612D209...@hate.spam.net...
[snip river of shit]
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/Smart.htm
beta cannot be derived, you dumb ignorant cunt.
Eric Gisse
You pollute this newsgroup with stupidity and we want you to stop.
Ignoring you hasn't worked - so smacking you on the nose with a rolled
up newspaper is the next step.
Jeff…Relf
Eric Gisse
> How deluded are you Gisse ? you can't moderate Sci.Physics.
Of course not...
But I *can* tell you to shut the fuck up every time you post something
stupid.
Since you have nothing worth contributing and aren't really interested
in physics, I'm gambling that you will eventually get sick of being
told to shut the fuck up and actually shut the fuck up. Your
newsreader is incapable of filtering posts and your obsession with
reading replies to you means you will see me tell you to shut the fuck
up every time I do so.
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
> How deluded are you Gisse ? you can't moderate Sci.Physics.
How deluded are you Jane? You can't discuss modern physics.
Jeff…Relf
" Damn ! What inconsiderate bastard let his dog do that ? "
Hell if I know. feed the pigeons and you just get more of 'em.
Speaking of that...
I let a homeless dude stay in my room the other day.
He was bleeding, had a black eye, eating everything is sight,
begging for my attention, using the bathroom, etc.
He was way into cars and paid his child support for years;
but then, one day, he just lost it and his driver's license.
( People who owe past-due child support lose their licenses )
Unable to pay his debts ( i.e. automatic liens that never expire,
accruing at 12 percent per year )... He'll never drive again.
Back when he worked ( and paying his child support ),
he was getting $ 5.25 an hour to operate a fork lift !
I didn't want him here, he knew that, I tell him all the time;
but he also knew that I'm a pushover who can't say no.
What did I get for my troubles ? as I expected,
another " 10 day notice to comply or vacate ".
Fuck ! I pay 430 U.S. dollars per month
for the use of these shit-stained, shared bathrooms.
One visitor every week or two gets me in hot water.
Normally ( i.e. 99.9 percent of the time )
I'm so quite you couldn't tell I was here.
The whole house is that way, not a sound... just the crows.
Hell, I piss into a cup, add bleach and dump it into a sealed container
just so I don't disturb my jumpy neighbors.
And what of these neighbors ? that they rat me out like this.
I don't dare talk to them, I don't know who they are.
Either they have monumental allergies or... or... I don't know what.
With no money to pay the 450 dollar move-in fee ( the " deposit " ),
plus first months rent ( 450 ) and
the 30 dollar background check per application...
And with no money to pay May's rent
( unless I get yet another cash advance )...
It looks like I'll be joining the " urban campers ".
Shit, I should steal some cars, just to see if
the county would give me free room and board ( in jail ).
I'll go to court before I get evicted ( if I get evicted ),
because I enjoy telling my story.
Now I ask... Where is God in all this ?
Eric Gisse
> Hi Bill_Snyder, Gazing in the mirror you told yourself,
> " Damn ! What inconsiderate bastard let his dog do that ? "
>
> Hell if I know. feed the pigeons and you just get more of 'em.
>
> Speaking of that...
[snip stupidly off-topic, uninteresting personal story]
This is why you shouldn't post to sci.physics - all you do is post
stupid shit from your personal life that nobody is interested in. Just
get a blog, dude.
Jeff…Relf
" You can't discuss modern physics. "
Yea, not only that, but oranges are round and the sky is blue.
Jeff…Relf
Eric Gisse
> You're starving for attention, Gisse, it's obvious.
Then stop replying.
Eric Gisse
> Hi Puddleduck, Gaazing into the mirror, you told yourself,
> " You can't discuss modern physics. "
No, fuckwad. He was talking about _you_.
Jeff…Relf
I'll answer two words back. how about it ?
Eric Gisse
> Here's the deal, Gisse, For every word of physics you mention to me,
> I'll answer two words back. how about it ?
How about you simply don't talk?
Don Stockbauer
> Here's the deal, Gisse, For every word of physics you mention to me,
> I'll answer two words back. how about it ?
Hmmm.....good example of nothing being accomplished, only personal
invective.
Oh, well, who said usenet should be used for anything productive
anyway? Might as well structure time with it to get some sort of use
out of it.
Bill Snyder
>Hi Bill_Snyder, Gazing in the mirror you told yourself,
>" Damn ! What inconsiderate bastard let his dog do that ? "
>
>Hell if I know. feed the pigeons and you just get more of 'em.
>
>Speaking of that...
[snip sob story]
Excellent. The sooner you're out carrying your worldly goods in a
shopping bag, the sooner you'll be off Usenet.
Jeff…Relf
Did Galileo know about " ( 1 - v^2 / c^2 )^-.5 " and c's invariance ?
As I just old Kenseto...
The easiest way to understand General Relativity is
to think in terms of time and energy.
When sync'ing G.P.S. birds with our network of terrestial clocks,
the photons fall into the gravity well, blue-shifting
( i.e. they get more energetic, with shorter wavelengths ) and
the centrifugal force ( in the opposite direction ) red-shifts them
( i.e. they get less energetic, with longer wavelengths ).
Net, the photons blue-shift.
The blue-shifted photons alter the S.I. meter and second.
General Relativity models energies and shifting standards,
accounting for distances, densities, pressure, centrifugal force, etc.
Eric Gisse
> Hi Tom_Potter,
> Did Galileo know about " ( 1 - v^2 / c^2 )^-.5 " and c's invariance ?
>
> As I just old Kenseto...
> The easiest way to understand General Relativity is
> to think in terms of time and energy.
[snip junk]
Hurry up - post more before you get evicted.
Jeff…Relf
.02, X_Ba, Apr 3, 2007, 9.58 P, BRi7j2
By the way, Tom_Potter,
Not only did Galileo _ Not _ know about " ( 1 - v^2 / c^2 )^-.5 "
and c's invariance... he didn't even own a clock !
G.R., S.R. and calculus must be used to determine the blue/red shifts.
Alone, Newtonian physics is off by a factor of 2.
Don Stockbauer
> Jeff...Relf, A Individual.NET
Too bad physics is such a tiny piece (a local system) of all human
knowledge (the general system).
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
How droll. Still misquoting Einstein?
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
> Here's the deal, Gisse, For every word of physics you mention to me,
> I'll answer two words back. how about it ?
How about for every word of physics he posts, you STFU?
Phineas T Puddleduck
JeffŠRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Shut up Jane. Better go practise panhandling.
T Wake
"Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
> In article <1175584657.7...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> "Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> if someone is interested in spaces and times
>> accessible to man, and one is interested in
>> improving the lot of his fellow man,
>> General Relativity a waste of time, money, resources and minds.
>
> Poor potter. Such a small little mind.
>
The mind is small, but the insanity is very, very big.
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> Hi Bill_Snyder, You're on the Internet. are you not ?
> You have access to a sea of information. do you not ?
> Yet you read what I write and comment on it. why ?
>
Seriously, Jeff, why do you post to USENET?
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> " Damn ! What inconsiderate bastard let his dog do that ? "
>
Hi Jeff&&&Relf,
Your reading comprehension problems are getting worse. Please go back,
re-read Bill Snyder's post and see if you can understand it this time.
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
>
You are projecting again, it is obvious.
T Wake
> In article <Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET>,
> JeffSRelf <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
>
>> How deluded are you Gisse ? you can't moderate Sci.Physics.
>
> How deluded are you Jane? You can't discuss modern physics.
He struggles with Classical physics, let alone anything more advanced...
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> " You can't discuss modern physics. "
>
> Yea, not only that, but oranges are round and the sky is blue.
>
Nicely done Jane. Your use of IKWYABWAI has all the proficiencies of a six
year old. I am so impressed.
(not to mention the pathetic attempt at sarcasm)
T Wake
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:4612D209...@hate.spam.net...
>T Wake wrote:
>>
>> "Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
>> news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
>>
>> More people than want you.
>
> Even one person other than Gisse wanting Gisse fills that criterion.
> Gisse stays, Relf goes.
Seems about right to me. Now if only JerkRalf would take the hint.
Jeff…Relf
Someone in my house told my landlord that a " friend " of mine
left a bloody needle in the bathroom resulting in yet another
" You'll be guilty of '' unlawful detainer '' in 10 days
if you don't Comply or Vacate " notice.
Which of my fucked-up " friends " did that ? I don't know.
So, if I hope to retain a roof over my head,
I can't allow _ Any _ friends over.
Just _ knowing _ homeless people gets me in hot water.
They come to the door and say, " Let me in, I'm Jeff's friend. ",
or, " My stuff is in Jeff's room, I need to get it. ".
So, lucky you, my social life is now restricted to online banter.
jt...@tele2.se
Fuck of Jornsten fagot.