Sanjay Gupta's fraudulent CNN 'fact check' of Moore's SiCKO documentary exposed.
Sparrow
Ron Peterson
> Read about it athttp://Muvy.org
Dr. Gupta has a follow-up in http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/blogs/paging.dr.gupta/
--
Ron
Phyllis Nilsson
"Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:1184333096....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Sally Eckard
flicks.
GMCarter
bigvince
> I guess you work for the insurance industry, eh?
Guppas statement about angioplasty was unbelievable. Why several
recent trails have demostated that late angioplasty [the great
majority of the of these procedures done ]are no better and may be
worst than medication. Read the OATS trail and the COURAGE study.
Neiter found much benefit for late stents an oats trended toward more
deaths in the stent arm. And heres GUppa bragging asout the fact that
you can get these [almost useless procedures quicker here] if you have
the right kind of insurance Thanks Vince
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
whether you believe any one medical procedure mentioned by Dr. Gupta
as a specific example has any utility.
> Thanks Vince
Thanks be to GOD.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
snip.
>It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
>significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
wild assertion?
George M. Carter
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> snip.
> >It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
> >significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
>
> An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
> wild assertion?
The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
countries except the U.S.):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
Truth is simple :-)
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressReport
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> snip.
>> >It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
>> >significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
>>
>> An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
>> wild assertion?
>
>The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
>are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
>countries except the U.S.):
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
Dear, that's not science. That's flailing. You think there are no wait
times in the US? That assertion itself is delusional.
The link above provides 552 citations that neither support nor refute
your point in and of themselves. I doubt you have read them but
perhaps you would pick an example or two that at least lamely tries to
support whatever point you're making.
In the meantime, there are other data that show distinctly that US
health outcomes are far inferior to other countries--more on a par
with say the Czech Republic except that there, the per capita spending
is about 3% (?) of the GDP while in the US it is 16%, nearly 50
million of us lack insurance and the insurance companies screw people
with insurance on a routine basis.
You MIGHT get a wee bit faster service in the US for some types of
interventions--but then you'll wind up paying for it twice or thrice.
I prefer:
SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE
PRICE CONTROLS on Drugs, Devices and Diagnostics
and
PATENT REFORM
as means to better health for all US citizens.
But then I think human life and well being matters more than profit.
Don't you? Or does your version of Jesus teach you otherwise?
George M. Carter
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
snip
>The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
>are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
>countries except the U.S.):
Oh my god. It's worse than I thought. You think that because a
national health system isn't perfect -- and that they actually do
studies to identify problem areas so they can work on fixing it -- is
somehow a sign that the US system--where they don't GIVE a shit about
improving the system at ALL and let millions suffer and die needlessly
because money rules and the poor get fucked so they don't BOTHER with
wait time studies...???
Wait. You can't possibly be that fucking brain dead stupid, can you?
Is that what you're lamely trying to say?
Hell, you should even read some of the abstracts.
George M. Carter
****
Gaudet MC, Ehrmann Feldman D, Rossignol M, Zukor D, Tanzer M, Gravel
C, Newman N, Dumais R, Shrier I. The wait for total hip replacement
in patients with osteoarthritis. Can J Surg. 2007 Apr;50(2):101-9.
Division of Santé communautaire, Université de Montréal, Montréal,
Qué., Canada.
OBJECTIVES: We documented the following components of waiting time
for total hip replacement (THR): first surgical consultation, date of
decision to operate and date of surgery. We then explored whether
these intervals differed by age, sex, occupation or quality-of-life
score. METHODS: We used a cross-sectional design and collected the
primary data from patients 2 to 4 weeks before they underwent THR.
Trained interviewers administered the Medical Outcomes Study Short
Form-36 and the Western Ontario and McMaster Universities
Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC), which included data on event dates,
conservative treatment, demographic information and quality of life.
We illustrated waiting times, quality of life and past use of
conservative treatment (i.e., cane, exercise, physiotherapy) with
descriptive statistics (mean [standard deviation] or median
[intraquartile range]) for continuous variables and with percentages
for categorical variables. We plotted KaplanMeier graphs for each
waiting time component and employed log-rank analysis to determine
whether any of these delays differed by age, sex, occupation or
disability. We also performed a Cox regression to adjust for all
covariates simultaneously. RESULTS: The median wait from surgical
consultation to decision to operate was 0 months. There was no
difference between age, sex or occupation. The median wait from
decision to operate to the date of surgery was 6 months and did not
differ by age, sex or occupation. However, subjects with more severe
symptoms (WOMAC) underwent surgery earlier than did those with less
severe disease. CONCLUSION: Although neither of the waiting time
components were associated with age, sex or occupation, patients with
more severe symptoms appear to be prioritized for surgery.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >>
> >> snip.
> >> >It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
> >> >significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
> >>
> >> An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
> >> wild assertion?
> >
> >The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
> >are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
> >countries except the U.S.):
> >
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
>
> Dear, that's not science.
It is data.
> That's flailing.
It is simply the use of a search engine.
> You think there are no wait times in the US?
What folks here in the U.S. complain about is not the wait times for
medical procedures but rather the cost and overuse of such
procedures.
> That assertion itself is delusional.
Truth is not delusion.
> The link above provides 552 citations that neither support nor refute
> your point in and of themselves. I doubt you have read them but
> perhaps you would pick an example or two that at least lamely tries to
> support whatever point you're making.
It would be my choice to refrain from cherry picking.
> In the meantime, there are other data that show distinctly that US
> health outcomes are far inferior to other countries--more on a par
> with say the Czech Republic except that there, the per capita spending
> is about 3% (?) of the GDP while in the US it is 16%, nearly 50
> million of us lack insurance and the insurance companies screw people
> with insurance on a routine basis.
Different issue.
> You MIGHT get a wee bit faster service in the US for some types of
> interventions--but then you'll wind up paying for it twice or thrice.
Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for compelling you
to unwittingly concede to the light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
Christ.
Laus Deo !
> I prefer:
> SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE
> PRICE CONTROLS on Drugs, Devices and Diagnostics
> and
> PATENT REFORM
>
> as means to better health for all US citizens.
>
> But then I think human life and well being matters more than profit.
>
> Don't you? Or does your version of Jesus teach you otherwise?
>
> George M. Carter
Here is what LORD Jesus Christ has taught me:
"If MY people would turn from their wicked ways and humbly pray...
... I will heal them and their land." -- GOD
Amen.
Here is how HE is doing it:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed.
bigvince
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 02:49:55 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> >The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
> >are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
> >countries except the U.S.):
>
> Oh my god. It's worse than I thought. You think that because a
> national health system isn't perfect -- and that they actually do
> studies to identify problem areas so they can work on fixing it -- is
> somehow a sign that the US system--where they don't GIVE a shit about
> improving the system at ALL and let millions suffer and die needlessly
> because money rules and the poor get fucked so they don't BOTHER with
> wait time studies...???
>
> Wait. You can't possibly be that fucking brain dead stupid, can you?
>
> Is that what you're lamely trying to say?
>
> Hell, you should even read some of the abstracts.
>
> George M. Carter
>
> ****
have insurance? An how many people have unneeded procedures because
they have good insurance. ? Maybe not only the poor get screwed but
also those that have insurance Thanks Vince
Ron Peterson
> What are the wait times here for any procedure? For those that do not
> have insurance? An how many people have unneeded procedures because
> they have good insurance. ? Maybe not only the poor get screwed but
> also those that have insurance Thanks Vince
Yes, there are going to be waiting times for any procedure anywhere.
It costs money to reduce the waiting time in terms of extra staff and
equipment. Procedures that take a long time to complete are more
likely to have a long waiting time while taking somebody's temperature
or BP should have only a short waiting time.
--
Ron
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
>> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >>
>> >> snip.
>> >> >It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
>> >> >significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
>> >>
>> >> An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
>> >> wild assertion?
>> >
>> >The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
>> >are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
>> >countries except the U.S.):
>> >
>> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
>>
>> Dear, that's not science.
>
>It is data.
Which you haven't read.
>> That's flailing.
>
>It is simply the use of a search engine.
Simple-minded use more like.
>> You think there are no wait times in the US?
>
>What folks here in the U.S. complain about is not the wait times for
>medical procedures but rather the cost and overuse of such
>procedures.
Ah...and wait times as well...but we do not collect data in the US on
how long procedures must be waited upon.
See this data, sweetie:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042072.htm
And Vince is right--people CAN'T get good care even WITH insurance,
let alone those of us lacking health care.
>> That assertion itself is delusional.
>
>Truth is not delusion.
Darling, you wouldn't know truth if it bit you on the ass.
>> The link above provides 552 citations that neither support nor refute
>> your point in and of themselves. I doubt you have read them but
>> perhaps you would pick an example or two that at least lamely tries to
>> support whatever point you're making.
>
>It would be my choice to refrain from cherry picking.
That's not cherry-picking...that's reading and understanding what the
data you allude to actually say.
>> In the meantime, there are other data that show distinctly that US
>> health outcomes are far inferior to other countries--more on a par
>> with say the Czech Republic except that there, the per capita spending
>> is about 3% (?) of the GDP while in the US it is 16%, nearly 50
>> million of us lack insurance and the insurance companies screw people
>> with insurance on a routine basis.
>
>Different issue.
Really? A different issue, you say?
What a load of shit.
>> You MIGHT get a wee bit faster service in the US for some types of
>> interventions--but then you'll wind up paying for it twice or thrice.
>
>Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for compelling you
>to unwittingly concede to the light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
>Christ.
Excuse me, but invoking a religious myth to support your delusions
doesn't support your case. Faith is about not questioning and you're
entitled to believe whatever nonsense you wish in that regard.
But you don't have the right to claim to speak about data when you
know absolutely NOTHING about the topic at hand.
You have demonstrated that amply, dearest.
George M. Carter
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> >neighbor George Carter (GMCarter) wrote:
> >> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> snip.
> >> >> >It remains true that the wait times for **all** medical procedures are
> >> >> >significantly shorter here in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,
> >> >>
> >> >> An interesting if unverified claim. Upon what data do you base this
> >> >> wild assertion?
> >> >
> >> >The fact that all the studies being conducted to reduce "wait times"
> >> >are being held where wait times are indeed longer (ie in all other
> >> >countries except the U.S.):
> >> >
> >> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
> >>
> >> Dear, that's not science.
> >
> >It is data.
>
> Which you haven't read.
Actually, I have.
> >> That's flailing.
> >
> >It is simply the use of a search engine.
>
> Simple-minded use more like.
It remains wise to keep it simple for untruthful folks like you.
> >> You think there are no wait times in the US?
> >
> >What folks here in the U.S. complain about is not the wait times for
> >medical procedures but rather the cost and overuse of such
> >procedures.
>
> Ah...and wait times as well...but we do not collect data in the US on
> how long procedures must be waited upon.
In the U.S., folks have the freedom to pay more for more expeditious
service.
> See this data, sweetie:
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042072.htm
>From your source:
"She went in for her routine screening at the end of May, then had
another because the first wasn't clear. That second X-ray showed an
abnormality, and the doctor wanted to perform a needle biopsy, an
outpatient procedure. His first available date: mid-August. "I
completely freaked out," Susan says. "I couldn't imagine spending the
summer with this hanging over my head." After many calls to five
different facilities, she found a clinic that agreed to read her
existing mammograms on June 25 and promised to schedule a follow-up
MRI and biopsy if needed within 10 days."
> And Vince is right--people CAN'T get good care even WITH insurance,
> let alone those of us lacking health care.
Lacking health insurance is not the same as lacking health care.
> >> That assertion itself is delusional.
> >
> >Truth is not delusion.
>
> Darling, you wouldn't know truth if it bit you on the ass.
Truth does not bite. You would have known this had you known the
truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ.
> >> The link above provides 552 citations that neither support nor refute
> >> your point in and of themselves. I doubt you have read them but
> >> perhaps you would pick an example or two that at least lamely tries to
> >> support whatever point you're making.
> >
> >It would be my choice to refrain from cherry picking.
>
> That's not cherry-picking...that's reading and understanding what the
> data you allude to actually say.
Picking out an example or two from 552 citations would be cherry-
picking.
> >> In the meantime, there are other data that show distinctly that US
> >> health outcomes are far inferior to other countries--more on a par
> >> with say the Czech Republic except that there, the per capita spending
> >> is about 3% (?) of the GDP while in the US it is 16%, nearly 50
> >> million of us lack insurance and the insurance companies screw people
> >> with insurance on a routine basis.
> >
> >Different issue.
>
> Really?
Yes.
> A different issue, you say?
It is what the Holy Spirit has guided me to write.
> What a load of shit.
QED:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Proof
> >> You MIGHT get a wee bit faster service in the US for some types of
> >> interventions--but then you'll wind up paying for it twice or thrice.
> >
> >Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for compelling you
> >to unwittingly concede to the light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
> >Christ.
>
> Excuse me, but invoking a religious myth to support your delusions
> doesn't support your case. Faith is about not questioning and you're
> entitled to believe whatever nonsense you wish in that regard.
Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
> But you don't have the right to claim to speak about data when you
> know absolutely NOTHING about the topic at hand.
Matthew 7:1-2 comes to mind here.
> You have demonstrated that amply, dearest.
Your sarcasm simply shows that you are lost:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/dream.asp
The brethren of LORD Jesus Christ are neither perfect nor more
special...
... we are simply forgiven by GOD:
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/
May you wisely choose to be forgiven by GOD too by publicly declaring
with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
snip
>> >> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
>> >>
>> >> Dear, that's not science.
>> >
>> >It is data.
>>
>> Which you haven't read.
>
>Actually, I have.
So you claim. Your postings here give me absolutely no reason to
believe you.
>> >> That's flailing.
>> >
>> >It is simply the use of a search engine.
>>
>> Simple-minded use more like.
>
>It remains wise to keep it simple for untruthful folks like you.
LOL....now you call me a liar, eh? I think you're the liar, dearie.
>> >> You think there are no wait times in the US?
snip
>> See this data, sweetie:
>> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042072.htm
>
>>From your source:
Gosh. I'd say THAT was cherry-picking - and pretty inept and lame
cherry picking at that.
Are alll fundamentalists as incapable of clear thought as you? I
earnestly hope you don't actually see any patients.
George M. Carter
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> snip
> >> >> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=wait%20times
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear, that's not science.
> >> >
> >> >It is data.
> >>
> >> Which you haven't read.
> >
> >Actually, I have.
>
> So you claim. Your postings here give me absolutely no reason to
> believe you.
GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either argue or
convince.
> >> >> That's flailing.
> >> >
> >> >It is simply the use of a search engine.
> >>
> >> Simple-minded use more like.
> >
> >It remains wise to keep it simple for untruthful folks like you.
>
> LOL....
"Written laughter is silent despair." -- Holy Spirit
Amen.
> now you call me a liar, eh?
It remains my choice to refrain from name-calling.
If you were to write that your intent is to deceive, you would fit the
definition.
> I think you're the liar, dearie.
Without the LORD, what you think is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
> >> >> You think there are no wait times in the US?
> snip
> >> See this data, sweetie:
> >> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042072.htm
> >
> >>From your source:
>
> <George snipping something from his own cited source>
>
> Gosh. I'd say THAT was cherry-picking - and pretty inept and lame
> cherry picking at that.
Actually, what you just did was cherry snipping :-)
> Are alll fundamentalists as incapable of clear thought as you?
Name-calling simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to
convict you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
> I earnestly hope you don't actually see any patients.
In my ever closer walk with LORD Jesus Christ, HE has kept me
completely well so there has been no difficulties with seeing
patients :-)
Laus Deo !
WaCoder
STOP POSTING.
YOU ARE SPAMMING.
WE DON'T LIKE IT.
--member of the sci.med.transcription group
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
snip
>GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either argue or
>convince.
As I say, believe whatever delusion you wish...but there's a
difference between science and data and your peculiar brand of
"faith."
GMCarter
way, sees only what he wants to see, data be damned.
Just in case people didn't read the BusinessWeek article, here's
another quote:
"In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are
already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal
health-care systems."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042072.htm
Of course, he runs away when actual data are presented, preferring to
hide behind god's skirts and claiming his delusional whack job truth.
Fundamentalist. Feh. What a load of tiresome crap.
George M. Carter
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f487a5b4dfdea46f?
>
> >GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either argue or
> >convince.
>
> As I say, believe whatever delusion you wish...
Truth is not delusion.
> but there's a difference between science and data
Science is the sifting of data in search of the truth.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -- LORD Jesus Christ
Amen.
> and your peculiar brand of "faith."
It remains my choice to not be religious:
http://abchung.livejournal.com/1176.html?thread=10136#t10136
GMCarter
<heart...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>convicted neighbor GMCarter wrote:
>> Andrew in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f487a5b4dfdea46f?
>>
>> >GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either argue or
>> >convince.
>>
>> As I say, believe whatever delusion you wish...
>
>Truth is not delusion.
>
>> but there's a difference between science and data
>
>Science is the sifting of data in search of the truth.
That's a piss poor definition of science. A better one below.
But clear to see you have failed to actually address any of the data
in any meaningful way. And resort to conflating religion/faith in ways
that wind up distorting and mocking both.
Faith is fine when adherent to a core of wisdom and compassion.
Mulish adherence to nonsense and claiming god told you is merely
delusion.
George M. Carter
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >convicted neighbor GMCarter wrote:
> >> Andrew in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f487a5b4dfdea46f?
> >>
> >> >GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either argue or
> >> >convince.
> >>
> >> As I say, believe whatever delusion you wish...
> >
> >Truth is not delusion.
> >
> >> but there's a difference between science and data
> >
> >Science is the sifting of data in search of the truth.
>
> That's a piss poor definition of science.
Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
Suggested additional reading on this topic:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/c648aa513121e720?
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
flyingrat
hear...@emorycardiology.com says...
> Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
>
> Suggested additional reading on this topic:
>
>
> This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
> you:
>
>
> Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
>
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/verbigeration
Verbigeration
ver·big·er·a·tion
n.
Obsessive repetition of meaningless words and phrases, especially as a symptom of mental illness.
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?verbigeration
Constant repetition of meaningless words or phrases; seen in
schizophrenia.