Should I be taking Atenolol as first treatment for HBP (42 year old WM) ???
Cardioguy
past few years I've been told that my blood pressure is on the high
side and I should have it looked at. I'm a non-smoker (have never
smoked), 6ft/210 lbs, sporadic drinker (probably average 1 or 2 drinks
per week). Past cholesteral tests have been unremarkable.
Because I basically have no health problems, and because I live in
Ontario where there is a general shortage of family doctors, I haven't
until a few months ago been able to get myself into a family practice
that was accepting new patients. My first encounter with the doctor
was for a general physical exam, which I had recently, and which
included a standard blood pressure reading that was performed first by
a nurse/assistant and then again later on by the doctor. As I sort of
expected, the readings were high, I believe 145+ over 95+ (or possibly
150+ over 100+). I don't think this was "white coat" syndrome as I
wasn't particulary nervous.
At home, I have a "Life Source" battery-powered automatic pressure
cuff I keep beside my bed and sometimes before I get up in the morning
I will take a pressure measurement and the morning of the medical exam
it read 120/71, pulse 65 - which is typical for a morning reading.
As I am typing this (after a day at work) I've measured by BP several
times, and indeed I get readings of around 160 / 95, pulse 70. I work
in the health/science industry and I know that unless I've just run
the 100 meter dash that my resting BP shouldn't be that high. My
father is in his early 70's and is not on, and has never been on HBP
medication, but my mother is and has been for the better part of 30
years.
So my doctor prescribed a course of Atenolol for me (50 mg, 30
pills). Remember, my doctor doesn't know a whole lot about me at this
point so I don't necessarily consider that she knows any more about
what is best for me than what I could read on the net. She's also
probably also younger than I am.
This would be the first medication in my life (besides the occasional
anti-biotic or pain killer) that I've ever been prescribed for an
apparent long-term condition.
Anyways, when I get home, I read about Atenolol, and one thing in
particular concerns me. It apparently is no longer (as of June 2006)
considered a first-line (or second, or third?) drug for HBP
treatment. What concerns me the most is that it is deemed to be an
unacceptible risk for promoting or triggering diabetes. My mother was
diagnosed with a mild form of adult diabetes 2 years ago (at age 65,
which is treated with a pill - not injectible insulin at this point)
so naturally I'm thinking that I might be pre-disposed to it as well,
and this Atenolol does not seem like a good idea, given that other
(better) drugs exist.
So, should I even crack open the Atenolol pill bottle? Am I justified
in asking my doctor to prescribe me a different drug?
(please post any response, as my e-mail is bogus for spam-avoidance
purposes)
Jim Chinnis
>So, should I even crack open the Atenolol pill bottle? Am I justified
>in asking my doctor to prescribe me a different drug?
You are justified in seeking a different drug. You should also consider diet
and lifestyle changes to get BP down.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
b...@nospam.com
IMO, beta blockers like Atenolol are poor first-line treatments for high bp.
They don't reduce bp particularly well and have bad side effects- inderal
put me into an instantaneous depression.
I'd see if I could tolerate an ACE inhibitor without coughing - diuretics
are good choices as well, as long as you supplement with magnesium and
potassium.
Robert
TechGroup
Atenolol for mild hypertension daily for years. No side effects that I'm
aware of. It has had the added effect of reducing my pulse rate
significantly. That was never a problem before, but less wear and tear
can't hurt.
"Cardioguy" <Car...@card.org> wrote in message
news:4601BFC8...@card.org...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> I'm a 58-year old male (5'11", 170 lbs, athletic) and have been on 100mg
> Atenolol for mild hypertension daily for years. No side effects that I'm
> aware of. It has had the added effect of reducing my pulse rate
> significantly. That was never a problem before, but less wear and tear
> can't hurt.
Medicine is an art. Always has been.
May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way.
Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Especially dear Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://bobs-amanuensis.livejournal.com/4211.html
http://pics.livejournal.com/bobs_amanuensis/pic/0000z24f/g1
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
bigvince
wrote:
> TechGroup wrote:
>
> > I'm a 58-year old male (5'11", 170 lbs, athletic) and have been on 100mg
> > Atenolol for mild hypertension daily for years. No side effects that I'm
> > aware of. It has had the added effect of reducing my pulse rate
> > significantly. That was never a problem before, but less wear and tear
> > can't hurt.
>
> Medicine is an art. Always has been.
>
> May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way.
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
>
> May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
> neighbors:http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
>
> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
> (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
Do your research. Atenolol has been removed in England as a first
treatment in primary hypertention. It can cause diabetes google
"Atenolol a wise choice" a study which shows atenolol to be not a
very good choice The study published in the lancet vol. 364 issue
9460 is entitled 'Atenolol in hypertention: is it a Wise choice? In it
the author concludes that it is not a very good choice. Go to
"cardiosource " just google it up find the section entittled
conversation with experts look for those about beta blockers. Do your
own looking. Doctors are creatures of habit after you reseach this
topic bring what information you find and discuss it with him. An
excellant resource for your health is Mercola.com just google it.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > TechGroup wrote:
> >
> > > I'm a 58-year old male (5'11", 170 lbs, athletic) and have been on 100mg
> > > Atenolol for mild hypertension daily for years. No side effects that I'm
> > > aware of. It has had the added effect of reducing my pulse rate
> > > significantly. That was never a problem before, but less wear and tear
> > > can't hurt.
> >
> > Medicine is an art. Always has been.
>
> treatment in primary hypertention. It can cause diabetes google
> "Atenolol a wise choice" a study which shows atenolol to be not a
> very good choice The study published in the lancet vol. 364 issue
> 9460 is entitled 'Atenolol in hypertention: is it a Wise choice? In it
> the author concludes that it is not a very good choice. Go to
> "cardiosource " just google it up find the section entittled
> conversation with experts look for those about beta blockers. Do your
> own looking. Doctors are creatures of habit after you reseach this
> topic bring what information you find and discuss it with him. An
> excellant resource for your health is Mercola.com just google it.
There is wisdom in not fixing something that is not broke.
Pastor Kutchie
<ach...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > TechGroup wrote:
>
> > > > I'm a 58-year old male (5'11", 170 lbs, athletic) and have been on 100mg
> > > > Atenolol for mild hypertension daily for years. No side effects that I'm
> > > > aware of. It has had the added effect of reducing my pulse rate
> > > > significantly. That was never a problem before, but less wear and tear
> > > > can't hurt.
>
> > > Medicine is an art. Always has been.
>
> > Do your research. Atenolol has been removed in England as a first
> > treatment in primary hypertention. It can cause diabetes google
> > "Atenolol a wise choice" a study which shows atenolol to be not a
> > very good choice The study published in the lancet vol. 364 issue
> > 9460 is entitled 'Atenolol in hypertention: is it a Wise choice? In it
> > the author concludes that it is not a very good choice. Go to
> > "cardiosource " just google it up find the section entittled
> > conversation with experts look for those about beta blockers. Do your
> > own looking. Doctors are creatures of habit after you reseach this
> > topic bring what information you find and discuss it with him. An
> > excellant resource for your health is Mercola.com just google it.
>
> There is wisdom in not fixing something that is not broke.
>
Now, Vince, do you understand why Chung was sacked from the only
cardiology post he ever held after just 88 days, being told he is
impossible to work with.
TechGroup
The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
is.
You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
else is unable to see.
"Pastor Kutchie" <use...@heathens.org.uk> wrote in message
<snip>
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
choosing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/55b9f72abe5705dc?
May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way.
Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Especially dear Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://bobs-amanuensis.livejournal.com/4211.html
http://pics.livejournal.com/bobs_amanuensis/pic/0000z24f/g1
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
neighbor TechGroup wrote:
>
> Why all the attitude???
>
> The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> is.
>
> You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> else is unable to see.
>
>
bigvince
> Why all the attitude???
>
> The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> is.
>
> You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> else is unable to see.
> "Pastor Kutchie" <use...@heathens.org.uk> wrote in message
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > Now, Vince, do you understand why Chung was sacked from the only
> > cardiology post he ever held after just 88 days, being told he is
>
> - Show quoted text -
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> neighbor "TechGroup" <gmwemail-...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Why all the attitude???
> >
> > The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> > considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> > prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> > literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> > is.
> >
> > You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> > else is unable to see.
>
> The article that I cited was a meta anylysis of all the studies done on atenolol .
A meta analysis is a rehash of data from previously published clinical
research trials.
For this reason, there is confounding selection bias in the data used
by a meta-analysis.
Since there is much clinical data that is unpublished resulting in
their exclusion from the meta-analysis, on can only eye the
conclusions coming from your article warily.
May GOD bless you.
bigvince
wrote:
> neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > neighbor "TechGroup" <gmwemail-...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Why all the attitude???
>
> > > The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> > > considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> > > prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> > > literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> > > is.
>
> > > You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> > > else is unable to see.
>
> > The article that I cited was a meta anylysis of all the studies done on atenolol .
>
> A meta analysis is a rehash of data from previously published clinical
> research trials.
>
> For this reason, there is confounding selection bias in the data used
> by a meta-analysis.
>
> Since there is much clinical data that is unpublished resulting in
> their exclusion from the meta-analysis, on can only eye the
> conclusions coming from your article warily.
>
> May GOD bless you.
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
>
> May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
> neighbors:http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
> Especially dear Bob(this one) Pastorio:http://bobs-amanuensis.livejournal.com/4211.htmlhttp://pics.livejournal.com/bobs_amanuensis/pic/0000z24f/g1
Sincerly may God bless you also. AS a cardiologist I am sure that
you are aware of cardiosource your owe professional publication. The
Meta anlysis I refer to is presented there . Its chief author a
Dr.Lindholm explains that all studies including atenolol are included
in this meta- anylysis . Dr.llindholm is the fomer head of the
European society for hypertention. Also discusing this issue is Dr.
Misserli a associate professor of medicine and a well know
hypertension speacialist he is more vocal about this drug. Both men
are considered experts in this field . They are given that respect by
the members of cardiosource. View thier discussion on cardiosource .
God bless you.
TechGroup
a drug's effects, good or bad, would be the same regardless of whether it
were prescribed for initial use - everything else being the same, of course.
"bigvince" <Vince.M...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174668241.9...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > > neighbor "TechGroup" <gmwemail-...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Why all the attitude???
> >
> > > > The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> > > > considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> > > > prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> > > > literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> > > > is.
> >
> > > > You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> > > > else is unable to see.
> >
> > > The article that I cited was a meta anylysis of all the studies done on atenolol .
> >
> > A meta analysis is a rehash of data from previously published clinical
> > research trials.
> >
> > For this reason, there is confounding selection bias in the data used
> > by a meta-analysis.
> >
> > Since there is much clinical data that is unpublished resulting in
> > conclusions coming from your article warily.
> >
> > May GOD bless you.
>
HE has bless me more than the world could possibly ever know.
> AS a cardiologist I am sure that
> you are aware of cardiosource your owe professional publication. The
> Meta anlysis I refer to is presented there . Its chief author a
> Dr.Lindholm explains that all studies including atenolol are included
> in this meta- anylysis.
Not the unpublished ones.
> Dr.llindholm is the fomer head of the
> European society for hypertention. Also discusing this issue is Dr.
> Misserli a associate professor of medicine and a well know
> hypertension speacialist he is more vocal about this drug. Both men
> are considered experts in this field . They are given that respect by
> the members of cardiosource. View thier discussion on cardiosource.
Beta blockers as a class remain useful for the treatment of
hypertension especially in folks with known occlusive coronary disease
and/or history of CHF. They have been proven to extend life in these
latter cases. Like other medications with proven cardiovascular
benefits, they tend to improve appetite, making people hungrier, as
they improve cardiovascular health.
People who have been brainwashed to believe that "hunger is bad" will
tend to overeat, gaining visceral adipose tissue (VAT) leading to the
development of metabolic syndrome (MetS) thereby negating the benefits
of beta blockade as they develop type-2 diabetes and resume
progression of their cardiovascular disease.
Suggested reading:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp
> God bless you.
Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for your kind
thoughts.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water so that we
can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a whole lot
more, dear friend Vince whom I love unconditionally.
Cary Kittrell
Unless you know the conclusions of these "unpublished studies" --
all of them -- then the fact (?) that such exist can logically have
no bearing on your opinion on the validity of this meta-study.
-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > > > > neighbor "TechGroup" <gmwemail-...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > Why all the attitude???
> > > >
> > > > > > The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> > > > > > considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> > > > > > prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> > > > > > literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> > > > > > is.
> > > >
> > > > > > You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> > > > > > else is unable to see.
> > > >
> > > > > The article that I cited was a meta anylysis of all the studies done on atenolol .
> > > >
> > > > A meta analysis is a rehash of data from previously published clinical
> > > > research trials.
> > > >
> > > > For this reason, there is confounding selection bias in the data used
> > > > by a meta-analysis.
> > > >
> > > > Since there is much clinical data that is unpublished resulting in
> > > > their exclusion from the meta-analysis, one can only eye the
> > > > conclusions coming from your article warily.
> > > >
> > > > May GOD bless you.
> > >
> > > Sincerly may God bless you also.
> >
> >
> > > AS a cardiologist I am sure that
> > > you are aware of cardiosource your owe professional publication. The
> > > Meta anlysis I refer to is presented there . Its chief author a
> > > Dr.Lindholm explains that all studies including atenolol are included
> > > in this meta- anylysis.
> >
> > Not the unpublished ones.
>
> Unless you know the conclusions of these "unpublished studies" --
> all of them -- then the fact (?) that such exist can logically have
> no bearing on your opinion on the validity of this meta-study.
Not for the discerning nor for those with a grounding in statistics
especially in the setting of clinical research.
This remains a valid argument for awaiting the randomized prospective
comparison trials with the specific aim of answering the question of
how atenolol compares with other anti-hypertensive medications for
lowering the rate of CV events in hypertensives before concluding one
way or another about atenolol's relative usefulness in the control of
hypertension.
May GOD bless you.
bigvince
wrote:
>
> May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
> neighbors:http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
> Especially dear Bob(this one) Pastorio:http://bobs-amanuensis.livejournal.com/4211.htmlhttp://pics.livejournal.com/bobs_amanuensis/pic/0000z24f/g1
May God bless you. Beta blockers as a class are useful in the
treatment of people with established heart diesease. Atenolol in
simple hypertention is not the same as beta blockers in coronary
diesease. The metabolic syndrome is often times called syndrome x or
insulin resistance syndrome. Atenolol increases insulin resistance and
by doing so increases the bodies stores of Vat so the atenolol makes
it more likely that one treated with atenolol gets diabetes. THe
British Hypertention society and Nice commitee in England took the
unprecedented step of rewriting thier section on hypertension control.
AS you know most hypertension is caused by vasoconstiction or by
excess volume. Drugs that inhibit the ras system are beta blockers,
ace inhibitors and arbs. Drugs that primarily work on the volume side
are diuretics and calcium channel blockers. The new guidelines in
Britan reflect that: for high renin caused hypertension the
recommendation is an ace or arb for volume hypertension diuretic or
ccb if a 2nd drug is needed it will be one of these. A 3rd drug will
also be from the above .Only if a 4th drug is needed will beta
blocker used why. AS the Drs. who wrote the guidelines said. They
don't work as well for simple hypertension and the most commonly used
one which is atenelol provokes an unacceptable risk of diabetes , You
can view these guidelines @nice.org.uk 2006 guidelines or just
google: nice blood pressure guidelines. Remember you are called to be
a leader May God bless you so that you can be a blessing
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
lov...@thetruth.com says...
> Not for the discerning nor for those with a grounding in statistics
> especially in the setting of clinical research.
>
And this is what Chung's 'discernment' is worth. Expect the shrieks and
hisses in reply.
From: ROCKETMAN51...@aol.com
Date: 10/04/2001 11:18 AM
To: and...@heartmdphd.com
Dr. Chung:
Any comments I make at this time are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the views of CFHC.
After going through this difficult time with you, I understand that you
are probably not interested in anything I have to say. Also, I believe
what I do say will probably be twisted or interpreted by you to suit
your purposes. For that reason I will be as direct and declarative as
possible.
Your website comments about cardiology in Ocala, FL are detractions and
border on slander. These are legal terms, and one of the important
features of them is that the comments are published. Your website
fulfills that requirement. Now just reflect on the fact that you are the
only one to make such insinuations or allegations. Any reasonable person
seeing these things may justifiably conclude that it is you that is out
of step, not the other 15 or 20 cardiologists in Ocala. As I have in the
past, I am trying to get you to see the reality of the situation from
outside your head. You have chosen to ignore the
good advice I tried to give while you were here. I hope you will soon
realize you are doing yourself more harm than good by publishing your
dispute. It would be better to let it go, before your reputation suffers
more.
Speaking of reputations, I have spent 35 years building mine. I can call
on physicians from around the world and this community to attest to it.
I can also call upon the many physicians I trained to do cardiac
catheterization (over 25 years) to offer a positive opinion about my
work. You can't. Being just out of training, you have no reputation
except the one you have just established here in Ocala. You are
continuing to establish your reputation by publishing your website. How
do you think what you have said would look to another physician-perhaps
an employer- when he reads it? Do you think he or anyone would conclude
that you are a reputable physician, easy to work with and a team player?
Personally, if I find that you speak disparagingly of me, or my work to
any patient or physician, be assured I will not take the matter lightly.
Whatever you think of me personally, or whatever you think of my
professional activity, you do not have the right to condemn either me or
the work to another and thereby compromise my reputation. You may
disagree with me, or state we have a difference of opinion, but you may
not state that I am practicing less that optimum cardiology. Once again,
if I find that you have done so (and I hope it has not happened yet) I
will certainly take the matter to the State Board of Medicine for a
hearing. If the Florida State Board finds cause, and renders a censure,
that must be transmitted to all other State Boards on your next and all
future applications for licensure. And once again, just common sense
should tell you that hitting back in your situation is counterproductive
and could be disastrous for you. But as I told you face to face, you may
have great book smarts, but your actions have shown that you have no
common sense that permits you to operate successfully in a professional
community. And, once again, I will tell you what I did before, you do
not operate in a vacuum. Your practice, wherever it may be, must be
according to the community standard, regardless of what you perceive
that to be. And an attitude that you vocalized by saying that you were
unable to change the community standard in Ocala speaks loudly and
clearly about your perception of reality and your inability to work with
your colleagues.
Dr. Chung, I urgently advise you to let the past go. Look to your future
which could be bright. If you persist in these efforts of hitting back
and trying to justify your actions to a world that looks upon such
attempts as childish or immature and unprofessional, you will continue
to do yourself a disservice. You lost your job because you talked
yourself out of it.
Frank Hildner MD
f...@orgren.org
Taken from
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/d559bc684dd89f
72?hl=en&
Cary Kittrell
"The definitive experiments have not been run/reported" (if true)
is certainly a valid reason to withhold judgement. Who could
disagree?
That is not what I understood you to be saying. But if you were -- and
if you are correct about the lack of such data -- then I agree.
-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > > > > neighbor "TechGroup" <gmwemail-...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Why all the attitude???
> >
> > > > > > The article that was cited is an interesting opinion, but it should be
> > > > > > considered in light of the fact that Atenolol is still very widely
> > > > > > prescribed by physicians who presumably also have access to recent medical
> > > > > > literature and who are in a better position to understand it than a layman
> > > > > > is.
> >
> > > > > > You present the article as if it were a basic truth that almost everyone
> > > > > > else is unable to see.
> >
> > > > > The article that I cited was a meta anylysis of all the studies done on atenolol .
> >
> > > > A meta analysis is a rehash of data from previously published clinical
> > > > research trials.
> >
> > > > For this reason, there is confounding selection bias in the data used
> > > > by a meta-analysis.
> >
> > > > Since there is much clinical data that is unpublished resulting in
> > > > their exclusion from the meta-analysis, one can only eye the
> > > > conclusions coming from your article warily.
> >
> > > > May GOD bless you.
> >
> > > Sincerly may God bless you also.
> >
HE has more than the world could possibly ever know.
> Beta blockers as a class are useful in the
> treatment of people with established heart diesease. Atenolol in
> simple hypertention is not the same as beta blockers in coronary
> diesease.
There is no such thing as simple hypertension.
No two hypertensives are exactly alike.
> The metabolic syndrome is often times called syndrome x or
> insulin resistance syndrome.
Syndrome X is not commonly used anymore.
> Atenolol increases insulin resistance
Incorrect.
> and by doing so increases the bodies stores of Vat
You are putting the cart before the horse here.
> so the atenolol makes
> it more likely that one treated with atenolol gets diabetes.
Not for those who know in the hearts that "hunger is good" and are
eating the optimal amount by weighing their meals:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp
> THe
> British Hypertention society and Nice commitee in England took the
> unprecedented step of rewriting thier section on hypertension control.
> AS you know most hypertension is caused by vasoconstiction or by
> excess volume.
Actually, hypertension is caused by inflammation of the resistance
arterioles thereby disrupting their blood pressure regulatory
functions especially their ability to respond to nitric oxide from
endothelial cells. The source of inflammation is the inflammatory
cytokines from visceral adipose tissue (VAT).
> Drugs that inhibit the ras system are beta blockers,
> ace inhibitors and arbs.
Beta blockers do no antagonize the RAS system.
> Drugs that primarily work on the volume side
> are diuretics and calcium channel blockers.
CCBs do not address the intravascular volume.
> The new guidelines in
> Britan reflect that: for high renin caused hypertension the
> recommendation is an ace or arb for volume hypertension diuretic or
> ccb if a 2nd drug is needed it will be one of these. A 3rd drug will
> also be from the above .Only if a 4th drug is needed will beta
> blocker used why. AS the Drs. who wrote the guidelines said. They
> don't work as well for simple hypertension and the most commonly used
> one which is atenelol provokes an unacceptable risk of diabetes , You
> can view these guidelines @nice.org.uk 2006 guidelines or just
> google: nice blood pressure guidelines. Remember you are called to be
> a leader
Actually, GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform.
> May God bless you so that you can be a blessing
Again, HE has blessed me more than the world could possibly ever know.
And, so I am hungrier than I have ever been in my life previously as
it remains my choice to continue walking ever more closely with LORD
Jesus Christ.
May HE bless you in HIS mighty way.
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
lov...@thetruth.com says...
>
> Actually, GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform.
So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
practice. Then make up your mind if this so-called Christian is a source
of reliable medical advice.
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Alcohol is an effective tranquilizer.
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
>
> So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
> practice.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/FR
> Then make up your mind if this so-called Christian is a source
> of reliable medical advice.
>
> >
> From: ROCKETMAN51...@aol.com
> Date: 10/04/2001 11:18 AM
> To: and...@heartmdphd.com
>
> Dr. Chung:
> Any comments I make at this time are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the views of CFHC.
In a word:
Hedging.
> After going through this difficult time with you, I understand that you
> are probably not interested in anything I have to say.
Translation:
Attempts to coerce you into falsifying your patients' medical records
have failed.
Your being truthful has made this a "difficult time" for me.
> Also, I believe
> what I do say will probably be twisted or interpreted by you to suit
> your purposes.
Translation:
I know you are going to stick with the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
Christ.
> For that reason I will be as direct and declarative as possible.
Translation:
You have shown me to be untruthful many times so that I have to be
careful about what I write.
> Your website comments about cardiology in Ocala, FL are detractions and
> border on slander.
Translation:
Your web site comments are not slander because they have been true.
> These are legal terms, and one of the important
> features of them is that the comments are published. Your website
> fulfills that requirement.
Translation:
No lawyer would take the case for libel because your comments have
been true.
> Now just reflect on the fact that you are the
> only one to make such insinuations or allegations. Any reasonable person
> seeing these things may justifiably conclude that it is you that is out
> of step, not the other 15 or 20 cardiologists in Ocala.
Translation:
In my opinion, majority should rule even against the truth.
> As I have in the
> past, I am trying to get you to see the reality of the situation from
> outside your head. You have chosen to ignore the
> good advice I tried to give while you were here.
Translation:
The truth is in my opinion for losers.
> I hope you will soon
> realize you are doing yourself more harm than good by publishing your
> dispute. It would be better to let it go, before your reputation suffers
> more.
Translation:
There is more power by being untruthful.
> Speaking of reputations, I have spent 35 years building mine. I can call
> on physicians from around the world and this community to attest to it.
> I can also call upon the many physicians I trained to do cardiac
> catheterization (over 25 years) to offer a positive opinion about my
> work. You can't.
Translation:
By being untruthful, I have accumulated more power than you.
> Being just out of training, you have no reputation
> except the one you have just established here in Ocala.
Translation:
The truth can't help you overcome my power.
>You are
> continuing to establish your reputation by publishing your website. How
> do you think what you have said would look to another physician-perhaps
> an employer- when he reads it? Do you think he or anyone would conclude
> that you are a reputable physician, easy to work with and a team player?
Translation:
No one with power from being untruthful is going to want to hire you.
> Personally, if I find that you speak disparagingly of me, or my work to
> any patient or physician, be assured I will not take the matter lightly.
Translation:
I am frightened by the truth.
> Whatever you think of me personally, or whatever you think of my
> professional activity, you do not have the right to condemn either me or
> the work to another and thereby compromise my reputation.
Translation:
I do not believe that GOD can condemn me. There is no such thing as
sin.
> You may
> disagree with me, or state we have a difference of opinion, but you may
> not state that I am practicing less that optimum cardiology. Once again,
> if I find that you have done so (and I hope it has not happened yet) I
> will certainly take the matter to the State Board of Medicine for a
> hearing. If the Florida State Board finds cause, and renders a censure,
> that must be transmitted to all other State Boards on your next and all
> future applications for licensure.
Translation:
You frighten me.
> And once again, just common sense
> should tell you that hitting back in your situation is counterproductive
> and could be disastrous for you.
Translation:
The truth frightens me.
> But as I told you face to face, you may
> have great book smarts, but your actions have shown that you have no
> common sense that permits you to operate successfully in a professional
> community.
Translation:
The world will reject you because you are clearly not of this world.
> And, once again, I will tell you what I did before, you do
> not operate in a vacuum. Your practice, wherever it may be, must be
> according to the community standard, regardless of what you perceive
> that to be.
Translation:
In my opinion, there is no place for the truth in this world.
> And an attitude that you vocalized by saying that you were
> unable to change the community standard in Ocala speaks loudly and
> clearly about your perception of reality and your inability to work with
> your colleagues.
Translation:
You are crazy for believing in the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ.
>
> Dr. Chung, I urgently advise you to let the past go. Look to your future
> which could be bright. If you persist in these efforts of hitting back
> and trying to justify your actions to a world that looks upon such
> attempts as childish or immature and unprofessional, you will continue
> to do yourself a disservice.
Translation:
In my opinion, there is no place in this world for a child of GOD.
> You lost your job because you talked yourself out of it.
Translation:
We are frightened by your truthfulness.
> Frank Hildner MD
> f...@orgren.org
You are forgiven.
May GOD also forgive you, dear neighbor Frank whom I love
unconditionally, because you knew not what you were doing.
Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling
FR to re-post this electronic communication from neighbor Frank.
Laus Deo ! ! !
Marana tha ! ! !
Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
Olrik
> On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:22:33 -0700, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >> > Actually, GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform.
>
> >> So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
> >> practice.
>
> >http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/FR
>
> >> Then make up your mind if this so-called Christian is a source
> >> of reliable medical advice.
>
> >> From: ROCKETMAN51...@aol.com
> >> Date: 10/04/2001 11:18 AM
> >> To: and...@heartmdphd.com
>
> >> Dr. Chung:
> >> Any comments I make at this time are mine alone and do not necessarily
> >> reflect the views of CFHC.
>
> > In a word:
>
He forfeited that privilege when he went, you know, insane.
Olrik
> --
> #1 Offishul Ruiner of Usenet, March 2007
> #1 Usenet Asshole, March 2007
> #1 Bartlo Pset, March 13-24 2007
> #10 Most hated Usenetizen of all time
> Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
> COOSN-266-06-25794
Synthetic Networked Android Responsible for Killing and Yardwork
was laughing at the antics of Meat Plow, when they suddenly burst out in
tears:
> On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:22:33 -0700, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Actually, GOD's purpose for me here remains to inform.
>>>
>>> So let's inform people why Chung was FIRED after just over 80 days in
>>> practice.
>>
>> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/FR
>>
>>> Then make up your mind if this so-called Christian is a source of
>>> reliable medical advice.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ROCKETMAN51...@aol.com
>>> Date: 10/04/2001 11:18 AM
>>> To: and...@heartmdphd.com
>>>
>>> Dr. Chung:
>>> Any comments I make at this time are mine alone and do not necessarily
>>> reflect the views of CFHC.
>>
>> In a word:
>
He has to go to sleep first. He can only get in there as a doctor while
in REM.
--
________________________________________________________________________
PorscheMonkey4Life COOSN-029-06-71069
Butcher Knife Natalia
Usenet Ruiner #5; Top Asshole #3; Official Chung Demon
Official Chung Demon; Most Hated Usenetizen of All Time #13
No holy posting of any kind, to email.
VOTE! Usenet Kook Awards, March 2007
Message-ID: <Xns9905E2BDB827w...@204.153.245.131>
Xander: "I still don't get why we had to come here to get info about a
killer snot monster."
Giles: "Because it's a killer snot monster from outer space. (pause) I
did not say that." -- "Listening to Fear" (87/509), Buffy the Vampire
Slayer
"Actually, I quit. Nobody takes my frock." -- Captain Jack, "The Doctor
Dances" (27.10), Doctor Who
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle
Trainer of PorchMonkey4Life
http://www.screedbomb.info/porchie/
The MonkeyLJ: http://porchmonkey.livejournal.com/ -- nuked!
8. OK, so who's this "Dev McKinHole", then?
I dunno, some guy named Devon McKinnon of Dawson Creek, allegedly, and
according to the Monkey, a pedophile. However, I wouldn't take that too
seriously. The Monkey keeps changing his mind about who I am, so there's
no reason to think he won't change it about Mr. McKinnon, too.
AUK FAQ: http://www.caballista.org/auk/faq.html
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, February 2007
Message-ID: <Xns98EE28E1C58ABw...@204.153.245.131>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, January 2007 MID:
<Xns98D232E44C01pi...@204.153.244.170>
"I am mentally stable, fool...I am going to be a bishop's wife." -- Sure
you are, Olympiada. MID: <45e21b75$0$16373$8826...@free.teranews.com>
"yes you are definitely retarded. See a neurologist immediate. And if
you don't have monet, blow a neurologist immediately." -- Farky the
Monkey-man to peachy ashie passion. No, no trace of irony in his post.
MID: <4h6xh.802$hH2.233@trnddc02>
"I was told there would be cookies."
Cross-Poasters For Goddess!
Remember: Straight people can't help it!
A petition to make the Five-Fingered Hand of Eris
the official symbol for the planet Eris:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ffhoeris/
"If you don't have pedicures AT LEAST every two weeks, don't talk to me.
If you don't floss every night and morning and brush at least twice a
day, don't talk to me. If you don't spend money on you hair and get
great cuts and color, don't talk to me. If you are heavy, don't talk to
me. If you don't shower every morning and take a nice bubble bath every
night, don't talk to me. If you don't have a loved one in your arms,
don't talk to me. If you don't keep an immaculate house, don't talk to
me. If you don't work, don't talk to me." -- Clearly, Martha Vandella
never wants to talk to me, which is for the best, really.
MID: <1161934857....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"You're fighting a Furry Giant
"He delivers a long speech about how you shouldn't judge him just because
he's an animal deep down inside and you're all intolerant and dressing up
like an animal in easy-access furry pants doesn't make you a pervert...
you fall asleep halfway through." -- The Kingdom of Loathing
To Whom It May Concern: Michael J. Cranston attorney kook is a stalker.
Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister
wrote:<snip selected quotes and slanted, slanderous interpretation
thereof>
What Hildner was saying is that you have a personality disorder,
obvious to all who read your postings in Usenet, that precludes you
from working with, or for anybody.
You live in your own little bubble, where you choose to be either
Humpty Dumpty, or the Queen of Hearts, or, more lately, Fred Phelps,
the Grand Wizard of Fundamentalist Fuckwittery. You lie with
consummate ease, reassuring yourself that it is your holy mission to
do so, tossing aside any criticism by demonising your critics. You
find this easy to do because, in your world, other people are already
not human beings. I know this not only from your rantings here in
Usenet, but from emails forwarded to me by several of the women you
have stalked.
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
> especially in the setting of clinical research.
>
And this is what Chung's 'discernment' is worth. Expect the shrieks and
hisses in reply.
From: ROCKETMAN51...@aol.com
Date: 10/04/2001 11:18 AM
To: and...@heartmdphd.com
Dr. Chung:
Any comments I make at this time are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the views of CFHC.
After going through this difficult time with you, I understand that you
are probably not interested in anything I have to say. Also, I believe
what I do say will probably be twisted or interpreted by you to suit
your purposes. For that reason I will be as direct and declarative as
possible.
Your website comments about cardiology in Ocala, FL are detractions and
border on slander. These are legal terms, and one of the important
features of them is that the comments are published. Your website
fulfills that requirement. Now just reflect on the fact that you are the
only one to make such insinuations or allegations. Any reasonable person
seeing these things may justifiably conclude that it is you that is out
of step, not the other 15 or 20 cardiologists in Ocala. As I have in the
past, I am trying to get you to see the reality of the situation from
outside your head. You have chosen to ignore the
good advice I tried to give while you were here. I hope you will soon
realize you are doing yourself more harm than good by publishing your
dispute. It would be better to let it go, before your reputation suffers
more.
Speaking of reputations, I have spent 35 years building mine. I can call
on physicians from around the world and this community to attest to it.
I can also call upon the many physicians I trained to do cardiac
catheterization (over 25 years) to offer a positive opinion about my
work. You can't. Being just out of training, you have no reputation
except the one you have just established here in Ocala. You are
continuing to establish your reputation by publishing your website. How
do you think what you have said would look to another physician-perhaps
an employer- when he reads it? Do you think he or anyone would conclude
that you are a reputable physician, easy to work with and a team player?
Personally, if I find that you speak disparagingly of me, or my work to
any patient or physician, be assured I will not take the matter lightly.
Whatever you think of me personally, or whatever you think of my
professional activity, you do not have the right to condemn either me or
the work to another and thereby compromise my reputation. You may
disagree with me, or state we have a difference of opinion, but you may
not state that I am practicing less that optimum cardiology. Once again,
if I find that you have done so (and I hope it has not happened yet) I
will certainly take the matter to the State Board of Medicine for a
hearing. If the Florida State Board finds cause, and renders a censure,
that must be transmitted to all other State Boards on your next and all
future applications for licensure. And once again, just common sense
should tell you that hitting back in your situation is counterproductive
and could be disastrous for you. But as I told you face to face, you may
have great book smarts, but your actions have shown that you have no
common sense that permits you to operate successfully in a professional
community. And, once again, I will tell you what I did before, you do
not operate in a vacuum. Your practice, wherever it may be, must be
according to the community standard, regardless of what you perceive
that to be. And an attitude that you vocalized by saying that you were
unable to change the community standard in Ocala speaks loudly and
clearly about your perception of reality and your inability to work with
your colleagues.
Dr. Chung, I urgently advise you to let the past go. Look to your future
which could be bright. If you persist in these efforts of hitting back
and trying to justify your actions to a world that looks upon such
attempts as childish or immature and unprofessional, you will continue
to do yourself a disservice. You lost your job because you talked
yourself out of it.
Frank Hildner MD
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
> especially in the setting of clinical research.
>
And this is what Chung's 'discernment' is worth. Expect the shrieks and
Condemned and Stricken Flying Rat
> especially in the setting of clinical research.
>
And this is what Chung's 'discernment' is worth. Expect the shrieks and
RELIGION KILLS
andy-eat a bullet.steel jacket is advisable.