New to group - is there any point in posting?
Dave
treatment, but I see little current discussion of disease here, and
far more religious fanatacism than I care to wade through. If I were
to post a health related question would I be likely to get any
relevant responses, or should I just save my energy and post
elsewhere??
Po...@nospam.invalid
>I see little current discussion of disease here, and
>far more religious fanatacism than I care to wade through.
Skip the posts of no interest and focus on what you want. Sorta like
reading a magazine skipping the ads and reading the articles... except
here, with a filter, the skipping part is easier.
>If I were
>to post a health related question would I be likely to get any
>relevant responses
Depends on the question I suppose.
I've been reading here a few months and learned quite a bit. There are
numerous peeps here with info and experience to share. There's only
one way to find out though....
Port
William Wagner
"Dave" <dgm...@erols.com> wrote:
Give it a shot! Cost is time but you get a large viewing audience.
Kill files seem to be the rigor these days. By this I mean consider a
NEWSREADER so that you can have more control of your experience.
Learning curve is steep but falls away real quick!
http://www.google.com/search?q=newsreader
I use donation ware called MT-Newswatcher on a Mac.
Bill
--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.
Jim Chinnis
If you can write a sensible question, you'll get some good responses.
To use this and many other Usenet newsgroups, you need to use the filters
that your newsreader provides. Simply setting your software to reject
messages that have been cross-posted to 3 or more groups will eliminate most
of the off-topic craziness.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Dave
> "Dave" <dgmo...@erols.com> wrote in part:
Thanks, gents - I have been participating in several specialized
newsgroups for years, but I have never encountered as much spam
posting as I see here. I'm glad to see that there are actually some
serious posters here.
Anyway, here's my question. For several years I have been on a variety
of BP meds. My doc has changed dosages and medications a number of
times, but I seem to have a worsening problem - to wit, I feel drugged
to the point of having difficulty working almost all the time, and it
is getting worse as time goes on. My BP is well controlled, but I feel
awful - queasy, dizzy, unable to concentrate, as if I have had too
much to drink. My current list is Cozaar 100 mg 1x daily, Cartia XT
(Cardizem) 120 mg 1x daily, Toprol XL 25 mg 1x daily, and HCTZ 12.5 mg
1x daily. I am convinced that this stew of medication is both keeping
me well and making me sick. The Cartia was recently substituted for
Avapro, and I seem to be feeling worse since that substitution.
However, since drug side effects are additive and I'm on such a
combination of stuff I don't want to jump to conclusions about any
particular medication. My doc is perfectly willing to work with me and
switch things around, but I was wondering if anybody else has been
through this, and if there are suggestions for other things we could
try, specifically with respect to meds. I'm otherwise already doing
the obvious - weight loss, lots of daily exercise, very careful diet,
low sodium, etc., etc.
Thanks
Dave
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> neighbor Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > neighbor "Dave" <dgmo...@erols.com> wrote in part:
> >
> > >I just joined this group to seek info and advice on hypertension
> > >treatment, but I see little current discussion of disease here, and
> > >far more religious fanatacism than I care to wade through. If I were
> > >to post a health related question would I be likely to get any
> > >relevant responses, or should I just save my energy and post
> > >elsewhere??
> >
> > If you can write a sensible question, you'll get some good responses.
> >
> > To use this and many other Usenet newsgroups, you need to use the filters
> > that your newsreader provides. Simply setting your software to reject
> > messages that have been cross-posted to 3 or more groups will eliminate most
> > of the off-topic craziness.
> > --
> > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>
> Thanks, gents - I have been participating in several specialized
> newsgroups for years, but I have never encountered as much spam
> posting as I see here. I'm glad to see that there are actually some
> serious posters here.
Many are in serious trouble however.
> Anyway, here's my question. For several years I have been on a variety
> of BP meds. My doc has changed dosages and medications a number of
> times, but I seem to have a worsening problem - to wit, I feel drugged
> to the point of having difficulty working almost all the time, and it
> is getting worse as time goes on. My BP is well controlled, but I feel
> awful - queasy, dizzy, unable to concentrate, as if I have had too
> much to drink. My current list is Cozaar 100 mg 1x daily, Cartia XT
> (Cardizem) 120 mg 1x daily, Toprol XL 25 mg 1x daily, and HCTZ 12.5 mg
> 1x daily. I am convinced that this stew of medication is both keeping
> me well and making me sick. The Cartia was recently substituted for
> Avapro, and I seem to be feeling worse since that substitution.
> However, since drug side effects are additive and I'm on such a
> combination of stuff I don't want to jump to conclusions about any
> particular medication. My doc is perfectly willing to work with me and
> switch things around, but I was wondering if anybody else has been
> through this, and if there are suggestions for other things we could
> try, specifically with respect to meds. I'm otherwise already doing
> the obvious - weight loss, lots of daily exercise, very careful diet,
> low sodium, etc., etc.
It is likely that you still have clinically significant amounts of
visceral adipose tissue (VAT) however.
Almost all folks with hypertension here in the U.S. have too much VAT.
If either your BMI is greater than 20 **or** waistline (measured at
the belly button) is 35 inches or greater, it is likely that you have
significant amounts of VAT that when lost by eating less down to the
right amount will allow your doctor to either gradually reduce or stop
most if not all your anti-hypertensive medications.
> Thanks
You are welcome, Dave.
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
Dave
Thanks for your reply. As I said,
> >I'm otherwise already doing
> > the obvious - weight loss, lots of daily exercise, very careful diet,
> > low sodium, etc., etc.
In the event that this regimen should result in controlled BP, it
could easily be a year or more before it does. What I'm hoping is that
- in the meanwhile - there is some med regimen that will control my BP
without making me so sick I can barely function. I literally cannot
spend a year feeling as awful as I currently do - I'd sooner jump in
front of a train.
William Wagner
"Dave" <dgm...@erols.com> wrote:
Look at
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease-risk/HB00047
http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.edu/hccpquiz.pl?func=start&quiz=heart
So your BP is up ten points does it matter? If it does tough it out
but maybe you can titrate down drugs to a functioning not feeling
awful place and still good for long term longevity. Do this with your
Doc.
Barely function sounds rough.
Consider with your doc if less meds vs risk may warrant a reduction.
I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS FUN!
IF YA WANNA LIVE-I WOULD ADVISE YOU NOT TO TAKE CHUNGS BULL SHIT ADVICE.
HE IS A CERTIFIED LOONY TOON.
HE LOVES THE COCK OF CHRIST.
HE HAS JEEZUZ JIZM RUNNING DOWN HIS MOUTH.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Again, you are welcome :-)
> As I said,
>
> > >I'm otherwise already doing
> > > the obvious - weight loss, lots of daily exercise, very careful diet,
> > > low sodium, etc., etc.
Some folks while losing weight are not losing VAT.
> In the event that this regimen should result in controlled BP, it
> could easily be a year or more before it does. What I'm hoping is that
> - in the meanwhile - there is some med regimen that will control my BP
> without making me so sick I can barely function. I literally cannot
> spend a year feeling as awful as I currently do - I'd sooner jump in
> front of a train.
The class of antihypertensive medication that most commonly causes
people to have difficulty concentrating and rather "jump in front of a
train" than continue would be beta blockers. In your case, it would
be the Toprol XL. Perhaps your doctor may consider switching you from
the ARB to a more potent ACE inhibitor so that you might possibly not
need the beta blocker to control your blood pressure.
It may be wise to print this out to give to your doctor so that s/he
won't be offended by the suggestion because this is coming from a
board-certified cardiologist.
Dave
> x-no-archive: yes
> diet, they mean low fat, high carb, which most often leads to more
> hypertension.
>
> Have you ever considered eating low carb? It will flush excess fluid
> from your system, which by itself often will lower bp. It will also
> reduce hyperinsulinemia, the cause/effect of the metabolic syndrome and
> high carb diet. In addition, by substituting lots of colorful, leafy
> veggies for starches, you get a lot more magnesium, by eating more
> dairy, you get a lot more calcium, and by eating more animal/fish
> proteins, you get a lot more potassium, all of which reduce hypertension.
>
> I used to have labile hypertension, occasionally spikes to 190/120. I
> run about 110/68 routinely now, with no meds. I find potassium
> supplementation especially helpful in dropping my bp.
>
> Susan
Susan,
I am type II diabetic, well controlled on Byetta and watch my carbs
like a hawk. I am high-fiber, low-carb all the way and have been for
years. I am on the DASH diet - as Tim Conway once said, "I'm eating so
much fiber that I'm passing wicker furniture"
Dave
Dave
>
> I'm type 2 DM, too, and I keep my bg below 110 at one hour post meals
> pretty much all the time now, with no meds.
>
> I don't eat starches, I load my plate with veggies, salad, meat and fish.
>
> Susan
DASH can be low carb - it includes lots of veggies, moderate fruit,
and high fiber. I don't have any problem keeping my total carbs below
~30 g per day, and the high fiber makes for favorable glycemic index.
Eave
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> neighbor Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
Here are my earlier comments:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/2f7b74462957d0b2?
>
> > Dave, I don't know your history, but often when folks mention a healthy
> > diet, they mean low fat, high carb, which most often leads to more
> > hypertension.
Healthy diets lead to healthier appetites.
Folks who remain brainwashed to falsely believe that hunger is bad
will be compelled to irrationally overeat and this is what leads to
the visceral adiposity that will drive up blood pressure.
> > Have you ever considered eating low carb? It will flush excess fluid
> > from your system, which by itself often will lower bp. It will also
> > reduce hyperinsulinemia, the cause/effect of the metabolic syndrome and
> > high carb diet. In addition, by substituting lots of colorful, leafy
> > veggies for starches, you get a lot more magnesium, by eating more
> > dairy, you get a lot more calcium, and by eating more animal/fish
> > proteins, you get a lot more potassium, all of which reduce hypertension.
> >
> > I used to have labile hypertension, occasionally spikes to 190/120. I
> > run about 110/68 routinely now, with no meds. I find potassium
> > supplementation especially helpful in dropping my bp.
> >
> > Susan
Low carbing is unwise because hyperketonemia is harmful.
The skull & crossbones on bottles containing acetone (one of the
ketones that builds up with low-carbing) are there to indicate
toxicity.
The loss of appetite from low carbing is from ketones like acetone.
This may be why you now have Addison's now (presumably from secondary
adrenal insufficiency from poor arterial supply for the pituitary) and
labile hypertension in the past.
Hyperketonemia increases lipid peroxidation throughout the body. I
would not be surprised if this is the mechanism behind possibly your
loss of blood supply to your pituitary gland.
> Susan,
> I am type II diabetic, well controlled on Byetta and watch my carbs
> like a hawk. I am high-fiber, low-carb all the way and have been for
> years. I am on the DASH diet - as Tim Conway once said, "I'm eating so
> much fiber that I'm passing wicker furniture"
You may be following Susan's footsteps toward having similar problems
with secondary adrenal insufficiency as the blood supply to your
pituitary gland is compromised by the increased lipid peroxidation
(vascular inflammation) arising from hyperketonemia which happens with
low-carbing.