World's first football club traced to Scotland
Paul C
Scots Invented Football - The Proof
Dec 16 2007 By Gordon Waddell
Expert Evidence Shows Oldest Football Club Was Scottish
IT is a debate which has raged for more than a century - who gave
football to the world? Well, it is about to become official.
After years of research, it has emerged that Scotland is ready to
firmly plant its flag as THE pioneer of the global game.
And we can beat England's claim to the oldest club in the world by 33
years.
Until now, Sheffield FC have held that title and this year celebrated
their 150th anniversary.
But an amazing stack of evidence has been unearthed from the National
Archive which reveals a club in Edinburgh existed as far back as 1824.
Run by lawyer and philanthropist John Hope, the Edinburgh Foot Ball
Club was set up in the wealthy New Town area.
And as some of the astonishing paperwork shows, it was run like
clockwork for at least 17 years, with members' lists, subscriptions
and expenses all documented in amazing detail.
Edinburgh historian John Hutchison has dedicated years of research to
the subject, striving to prove its authenticity and book its place in
the annals of the game.
He is now working alongside Scottish Football Museum curator Richard
McBrearty, planning a book and a major exhibition.
McBrearty said: "Unless someone can come forward with written
evidence, not hearsay, that there are older football clubs out there,
then John Hope essentially becomes the father of the modern game.
Because English football history has been perceived to have been so
important for so long, a lot of research has gone into it. But they
have nothing close to this.
"We're effectively reclaiming our history which has been taken from
us.
We have evidence saying we provided the world's oldest football club.
"Obviously England still has a hugely important claim in the
development of the rules of football, the Football Association and the
FA Cup.
"We're simply looking at our importance and the football club will be
very important.
"Our argument is that before you can have football associations,
before you can have leagues, cups, you have to have clubs.
"In terms of organised football, the very beginning of that structure
is the football club. And Scotland can now claim to have the first in
the world."
Hutchison's studies in Edinburgh are expected to lead to a book in
2008, with McBrearty promising an exhibit at Hampden's superb museum
to coincide with it.
He was happy to reveal what they have found so far.
He said: "The Foot Ball Club of Edinburgh was formed in 1824 and
survived at least until 1841. They were very well organised.
"John Hope was an Edinburgh University student at the time who went on
to become a leading lawyer and philanthropist.
"He kept careful note of everything he did. There's a members list,
including all the addresses, a subscriptions list and an expenses
sheet detailing what the money was used for.
"It went towards paying for the bladders, the leather casing for the
balls, the hire of the pitch.
"They had to buy 'hail sticks' - that's the traditional Scots
terminology - for hailing the ba' when they scored a goal. It's a
fantastic connection between the ancient origins of the game and the
modern game.
"There's a list of members, too. It's like you and your mates trying
to organise five-a-sides every week only this was two centuries ago."
From the ancient Chinese game of Cuju, played in 200 BC, through the
Calcio Storico of Florence in the 16th century, many countries have
claimed the format on which modern football is based. But it was well
into the 19th century before today's game evolved.
Although The Cambridge Rules of 1848 are widely regarded as a template
for modern-day football, McBrearty insists a set of rules Hope
established for a league in Edinburgh in the 1850s are just as
significant.
He said: "There's not a surviving rule book for the Edinburgh club but
in 1854 he fought very hard to try to get the working classes,
especially youths, away from the demon drink. He used positive things,
like exercise, so he got a public park, got the youths to come and
play football and encouraged them to form clubs.
"He publicised this, it's not an old boys club the way some of the
English set-ups were.
"The Cambridge Rules were for Cambridge University Football Club, so
they may have all come from Eton, Harrow etc - it was a closed shop.
"Hope was taking the working classes, maybe 16 to 18 year olds,
getting them together and trying to get them away from the pubs.
To help them with that he printed a set of rules.
"One interesting footnote is that as well as being temperance clubs,
because of the fight against alcohol, one of the things Hope always
did was hold an anti-Popery class with the groups.
"Maybe it casts a slight shadow over him but you have to put it in its
historical context.
"You can't look at it from a 21st century perspective.
"This is 1824 and attitudes were different. By all accounts even then
Hope was old-fashioned in his outlook.
"None of it detracts from the Club itself though.
"The Club is a massively important find and it will be a major
addition to the heritage of Scottish football.
"The Museum is now looking at where we are in trying to promote the
history of the game, not just in Scotland but on a wider stage."
'We're effectively reclaiming our history which has been taken from us
..we have evidence that says we provided the world's oldest football
club' Richard McBrearty
Diabolik
barca4...@hotmail.com
game, and are just trying to steal Scottish glory? Well well, why am I
not surprised?!?!
Sheridan Elliot
and nothing in that sloppily-researched farrago suggests otherwise.
For a start, Sheffield FC is the oldest EXTANT football club in the world,
not the oldest outright.
barca4...@hotmail.com
That's what I thought, but it appears that Paul C is presenting
evidence to the contrary. That said, the game itself has had several
connections to even Ancient China, and I believe also in midieval
Italy. I don't know for sure, maybe Higgs can help us out with his use
of wikipedia to find out for sure.
LeGar
> http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2007/12/16/scots-inven...
Honour to them. They invented not only golf but football too. The
English invented the rules and the Italians added cheating. Wonderful.
L
Diabolik
> English invented the rules and the Italians added cheating. Wonderful.
Yet an Italian cheat is the coach of England.
Funny world we live in;)
Paul C
wrote:
>Who did they play against?
>
Club members arranged matches amongst themselves.
Paul C
<sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
>What a load of specious balderdash. Modern football is an English invention
>and nothing in that sloppily-researched farrago suggests otherwise.
Nothing specious or wrong with the research - only sloppy Daily Record
reporting and interpretation.
The fact is that Edinburgh Football Club is the earliest documented
football club.
Paul C
<sherida...@gmail.com> wrote:
>What a load of specious balderdash. Modern football is an English invention
>and nothing in that sloppily-researched farrago suggests otherwise.
Here's the sloppily-researched farrago which you laughably attack:
Full documentation has been found in the National Archives of
Scotland, but hey, Sheridan knows better.
Paul C
wrote:
>So what you are saying is that the English lied about inventing the
>game, and are just trying to steal Scottish glory? Well well, why am I
>not surprised?!?!
In addition to the first-recorded football club hailing from Scotland,
evidence suggests that it was style of football played in Scotland
which formed the basis of the FA rules of 1862.
Of course, Scots (the Scotch Professors, as they were known in
England) then had to go to England to teach the English how to play
the game they claim they had invented.
From Wikipedia:
A book published in the 17th century suggests the modern game of
football may have been invented in Aberdeen. The book Vocabula was
written by city teacher David Wedderburn in 1633, more than 200 years
before the Football Association (FA) was formed in England.
The "amazing discovery" is written in Latin and describes playing a
match and passing the ball.
A 1711 edition was stored at the National Library of Scotland (NLS)
and is now on display in Germany.
Mr Wedderburn wrote: "Let's pick sides. Those who are on the outside,
come over here. Kick off, so that we can begin the match...Pass it
here."
Richard McBrearty, curator of the Scottish Football Museum, said: "The
book is the first evidence we have come across of a passing game with
goalkeepers and players passing the ball to score goals."
It is generally believed that the modern game has its origins in
disorganised and spontaneous "mob football", he said.
And that English public schools, such as Eton and Harrow, "civilised"
the game by drawing up rules that encouraged players to kick the ball
and forbid them from carrying it.
However, McBrearty said Wedderburn's book suggested that while England
was pursuing a "dribbling game" in the mid 1800s, Scotland was already
playing a much more structured game with team formations and passing.
"The other interesting thing is that the FA was not formed until
1863," he continued.
"In the first FA rule book there is no mention of goalkeepers and the
game is based more on a rugby-type structure, where players could not
pass the ball forward.
"Scotland has a fantastic claim to have developed the modern game." he
said.
"It is frankly an amazing discovery and one which is hard to dispute."
Mr McBrearty said further research by the Scottish Football Museum had
shown that many of the first Football Association clubs comprised of
Scottish players.
These players, with their superior technique, were known as the
"Scottish professors", he said.
The book is on display at the Museum fur Volkerkunde in Hamburg as
part of a World Cup football exhibition.
Professor Wulf Koepke of the Museum fur Volkerkunde said: "The
influence of this book is quite tremendous - it rewrites part of
football history."
Paul C
wrote:
>Paul C <pa...@thersgb.net> wrote:
>
>>http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2007/12/16/scots-invented-football-the-proof-78057-20255683/
>>Scots Invented Football - The Proof
>>
>>Hutchison's studies in Edinburgh are expected to lead to a book in
>>2008, with McBrearty promising an exhibit at Hampden's superb museum
>>to coincide with it.
>>
>So he has a book due out and an exhibit to publicise and needs some
>controversy to sell it.
Where's the controversy? Edinburgh Football Club is the first recorded
football club. Fact.
ruud
useless trivia: the first snow-skiing club in the world was in Australia.
Australians were the first to treat it purely as a recreation and actually
organise a club. Everyone else just thought it was a good way to get
around. Most people would be surprised it actually snows in aus let alone
have the oldest skiing club.
Jellore
> Paul C wrote in rec.sport.soccer:
>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Who did they play against?
>
> > Club members arranged matches amongst themselves.
>
> useless trivia: the first snow-skiing club in the world was in Australia.
> Australians were the first to treat it purely as a recreation and actually
> organise a club. Everyone else just thought it was a good way to get
> around. Most people would be surprised it actually snows in aus let alone
> have the oldest skiing club.
Oh it does snow in Australia Ruud, although not as much as it used to.
More to do with lack of precipitation than higher temps though. Much
of the snow these days in the aptly named Snowy Mts is artificial to
keep the resorts open.
I must admit I enjoyed your post very much.
barca4...@hotmail.com
Sour grapes. Le Gar must be a frenchie :)) and Malouda and Henry are
clearly Italian...they are chronic cheaters/divers!!
barca4...@hotmail.com
Paul C wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:59:09 -0800 (PST), barca4...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >So what you are saying is that the English lied about inventing the
> >game, and are just trying to steal Scottish glory? Well well, why am I
> >not surprised?!?!
>
>
> In addition to the first-recorded football club hailing from Scotland,
> evidence suggests that it was style of football played in Scotland
> which formed the basis of the FA rules of 1862.
I also understand that in the very first recorded International match
between Scotland and England, the English players were bewildered by a
foreign tactic that the Scots were using. The English who were
accustomed to try and run with the ball as far as they could go, then
have someone else take over when they tired out or lost the ball were
clearly confused when they saw the Scotts playing far apart from each
other and passing the ball back and forth. They just didn't get it.
"What the hell are those Scotties doing kicking the ball away like
that? Oh look, it reached another Scottie..."
Yep...and they still haven't figured out how to do it well.
> Of course, Scots (the Scotch Professors, as they were known in
> England) then had to go to England to teach the English how to play
> the game they claim they had invented.
It was obvious from the very first international.
Jellore
And this fool is on record saying he does not hate England. Secretly
he loves the English team.
LeGar
>> And this fool is on record saying he does not hate England. Secretly
> he loves the English team
Wrong. Secretly he´s a boring cunt. L
barca4...@hotmail.com
Those are historical fact Jallore, there's nothing hateful or spiteful
about them. It's well documented that the English hadn't a clue about
the passing game when they first encountered Scotland and were pretty
confused when the Scots were passing the ball around. It threw them
off. You can find heaps of evidence to support this.
I am also on record calling you a muppet, tosser, moron, etc, but it
doesn't mean I hate you either.
There is one last observation that cannot be denied either, and that
is this is the 7th thread you've followed me in to troll me and call
me a hater. You've contributed nothing to the general content of this
thread but another lame attempt to defame my online character, in vain
of course.
You are obsessed with me.
I thus own you.
Enjoy :)
barca4...@hotmail.com
Clearly I annoy you. Therefore I can't be that boring. Your
contribution to this thread was also a lame troll attempt. I may
actually own you too.
Lord of War
Football began in what is now known as Mexico. England...... PISS
OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scall...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:59:09 -0800 (PST), barca4eve...@hotmail.com
Tell it to FIFA because according to them the modern game was created
in England and the world's oldest club is Sheffield FC.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=621801.html#sheffield+fc+years+history
Jellore
Paul C is simply trying to be provocative, whereas Lord exists in a
fantasy world all of his own.
Lord of War
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fair enough. FIFA the cheaters say it's so. So be it. Whi cares,
england sucks shits anyways. No euro and no world cup even with the
true inventors of modern football itlay.
kenh...@hotmail.com
Unlike you, I don't need to rely on Wikipedia to get my information.
Football was played in England at least 500 years ago, though not
exactly as it's played now.
The modern game and it's rules date back to The FA and it's foundation
in the mid 19th cent.
If you want to talk about a bunch of villagers kicking around a pigs
bladder or somesuch, you'll probably never get a comprehensive answer
on where and when it originated, if you want to talk about the
foundation of the rules etc that govern the modern game, it's clearly
the origin of the FA
So, I own you yet again.
You poor sucker, this really is becoming a habit
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 12:42�pm, barca4eve...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Sheridan Elliot wrote:
> > > What a load of specious balderdash. Modern football is an English invention
> > > and nothing in that sloppily-researched farrago suggests otherwise.
> >
> > > For a start, Sheffield FC is the oldest EXTANT football club in the world,
> > > not the oldest outright.
> >
> > That's what I thought, but it appears that Paul C is presenting
> > evidence to the contrary. That said, the game itself has had several
> > connections to even Ancient China, and I believe also in midieval
> > Italy. I don't know for sure, maybe Higgs can help us out with his use
> > of wikipedia to find out for sure.
>
>
> Unlike you, I don't need to rely on Wikipedia to get my information.
Yet you did, you hypocrit. You were wrong about the ban in Serie A,
and you were wrong about Catennacio being used in the 90's. You are
ill informed, and it shows, even as evidence that you were unaware of
the UEFA coefficient spanning five years. You were so ignorant that
you assumed I just arbitrarily picked those five years and you then
wanted to pick five years in the 70's when the Dutch league was
supposedly (according to you) the best in Europe. You've been exposed
as a know nothing troll time and time again. You are a glutton for
punishment.
> Football was played in England at least 500 years ago, though not exactly as it's played now
And it can even be traced to Ancient China and medieval Italy, though
not exactly as it's played now. What's your point? If Paul C says he
has documentation of a Scottish club being the oldest club ever, then
take it up with him you sad muppet.
kenh...@hotmail.com
> kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 12:42�pm, barca4eve...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Sheridan Elliot wrote:
> > > > What a load of specious balderdash. Modern football is an English invention
> > > > and nothing in that sloppily-researched farrago suggests otherwise.
>
> > > > For a start, Sheffield FC is the oldest EXTANT football club in the world,
> > > > not the oldest outright.
>
> > > That's what I thought, but it appears that Paul C is presenting
> > > evidence to the contrary. That said, the game itself has had several
> > > connections to even Ancient China, and I believe also in midieval
> > > Italy. I don't know for sure, maybe Higgs can help us out with his use
> > > of wikipedia to find out for sure.
>
> > Unlike you, I don't need to rely on Wikipedia to get my information.
>
> Yet you did, you hypocrit. You were wrong about the ban in Serie A,
> and you were wrong about Catennacio being used in the 90's. You are
> ill informed, and it shows, even as evidence that you were unaware of
> the UEFA coefficient spanning five years. You were so ignorant that
> you assumed I just arbitrarily picked those five years and you then
> wanted to pick five years in the 70's when the Dutch league was
> supposedly (according to you) the best in Europe. You've been exposed
> as a know nothing troll time and time again. You are a glutton for
> punishment.
>
Barca, I've handed you your arse on every occasion.
I own you.
Sucker
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
Yes you did, you are superior in every way :)
barca4...@hotmail.com
Now back to the point Higgsy isn't this English centered narcissism
tiring you out?
You've pretty much admitted you are an Italy and Spain hater simply
because you are jealous of the superior brand of football played
there, even if you incorrectly assigned catennacio to the Italian
version.
Paul C has a point though, maybe England didn't create the game? At
least you can still boast about having the richest league in the
world, yes?
kenh...@hotmail.com
kenh...@hotmail.com
> tiring you out?
I'm enjoying making a tit of you.
Now, how about you elaborate on this quote of yours:
"In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League. Their
presence was blamed for the contued underperfomance of the national
side, culminating at the humiliating defeat by North Korea at that
year's World Cup[8]. The ban was eased when one foreigner per Serie A
team was allowed from 1980[9]." - third paragraph under the section
entitled 'Italian Oriundi'
As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
late 60s/early 70s?
You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
Sucker
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 27, 4:47�pm, barca4eve...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Now back to the point Higgsy isn't this English centered narcissism
> > tiring you out?
>
> I'm enjoying making a tit of you.
And how have you done that?
> Now, how about you elaborate on this quote of yours:
> "In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League. Their
> presence was blamed for the contued underperfomance of the national
> side, culminating at the humiliating defeat by North Korea at that
> year's World Cup[8]. The ban was eased when one foreigner per Serie A
> team was allowed from 1980[9]." - third paragraph under the section
> entitled 'Italian Oriundi'
That was a quote from wiki, supported by quotes from other web sites.
Even MH chimed in and educated you on the foreigner ban. What is your
point? You clearly have a need to hold onto stupidity, but I have no
idea why.
> You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
I've never done so. I own you.
> Sucker
> Higgs
It must have been a hard realization to come to for you, that England
really isn't that good at football.
Oh, I noticed that you pressed send before entering any text the first
time. That's a sign of nerves. Your blood pressure wouldn't be very
high at the moment now would it Higgs?
:))
barca4...@hotmail.com
kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Unlike you, I don't need to rely on Wikipedia to get my information.
Higgs (December 18, 2007):
"I suggest you look up catenaccio in
It states that Italy in the late 90s & early 2000s used it." - in
reference to looking up stuff in Wikipedia
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/64e47b59d482d92a/e04ab4cd3067f963
> So, I own you yet again.
Yep you sure did Higgs, you sure did :))
While you're at it you've still run from explaining what Catennacio
really is, since you proclaim to be an expert in it. Care to indulge
us with your wiki-based knowledge?
kenh...@hotmail.com
> kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 4:47�pm, barca4eve...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Now back to the point Higgsy isn't this English centered narcissism
> > > tiring you out?
>
> > I'm enjoying making a tit of you.
>
> And how have you done that?
>
> > Now, how about you elaborate on this quote of yours:
> > "In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League. Their
> > presence was blamed for the contued underperfomance of the national
> > side, culminating at the humiliating defeat by North Korea at that
> > year's World Cup[8]. The ban was eased when one foreigner per Serie A
> > team was allowed from 1980[9]." - third paragraph under the section
> > entitled 'Italian Oriundi'
>
> That was a quote from wiki, supported by quotes from other web sites.
> Even MH chimed in and educated you on the foreigner ban. What is your
> point? You clearly have a need to hold onto stupidity, but I have no
> idea why.
>
Indeed it wasv a quote from Wki, and one that you hung your hat on.
I pointed out that it was incorrect, all foreigners were NOT banned
from Serie A, and MH backed me up on that
You got owned
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
Dude, you're wasting your time. Everyone knows there was a foreigner
ban from 1966-1980. That is not debatable. I hung my hat on nothing
because all I did was give your references. The fact was that you
didn't even know it until I brought it up, and in your haste you
called me a liar. Later MH confirmed that there was a ban, and it was
not a partial ban. Those were his words.
We both told you why there were 5 foreigners playing in Italy
post-1966, though you are too thick to get it through your skull.
Anyhow, your EPL is foreign based, and that angers you.
> You got owned
Yeah... and I'm worth a lot, better sell me quick :))
kenh...@hotmail.com
You got owned
Higgs
Benny
> From : kenh...@hotmail.com
> As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
> presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
> late 60s/early 70s?
>
> You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
>
> Sucker
>
> Higgs
Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones that
were already there weren't kicked out.
http://soccer-europe.com
Rss feed : http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
kenh...@hotmail.com
> > Subject : World's first football club traced to Scotland
>
> > As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
> > presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
> > late 60s/early 70s?
> >
> > You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
> >
> > Sucker
> >
> > Higgs
>
> Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones that
> were already there weren't kicked out.
>
And a cigar to the man in the stripey shirt in the corner.
That's right, the ban was on SIGNING any new foreign players.
To claim "In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League"
is incorrect.
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
Benny wrote:
> > Subject : World's first football club traced to Scotland
> > From : kenh...@hotmail.com
>
> > As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
> > presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
> > late 60s/early 70s?
> >
> > You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
> >
> > Sucker
> >
> > Higgs
Famous last words from Higgs:
"No doubt someone else will put you out of your misery soon enough..."
and well....
Benny says:
> Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones that
> were already there weren't kicked out.
LOLOL....Higgs, point...set...match....I own you Higgsie :))))
He (Higgs) has already been told, but he can't read. He's a moron. We
all already know this.
Barca: (Dec 18, 2007)
"...the ban allowed for foreigners
who were already on the teams to stay but no new ones to come..."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/e838faafa1d28f96?dmode=source
and...
MH (Dec 23, 2007):
"It was not a partial ban. They were not allowed to sign foreign
players. "
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/3b7af97ec73b93a5?dmode=source
Higgs doesn't know much, and it has been a pleasure exposing him...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriundo
http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/matt20040222.html
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/articles/chinagliagg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Serie_A_players
Why stop here Higgs?
Hey by why stop there. You're the idiot that thought I was just
Higgs said:
"Putting forward a bunch of historical results as to when LL was
considered stronger and ignoring the current ranking seems a pretty
silly way of doing it."
when I presented UEFA's coefficient rankings that objectively prove
that Spain is still the "official" best league in Europe:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html
You even were dumb enough to come up with this gem after:
Higgs:
"How about putting forward rankings from the early 70s when Ajax &
Feyenoord were EC1 champs and then claiming the Dutch League is
currently the strongest? "
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/e04ab4cd3067f963?...
Clearly revealing that you hadn't a single idea that I was actually
posting the current rank, as per UEFA.
How about the time when you denied that the EPL has the highest
concentration of foreigners? And how many times has it been where
you've claimed to be an expert on catennacio but refuse to explain
what it is? Four, five? Who's counting anyhow? ;)
Barca:
"Oh dear, you clearly don't understand what catennacio is, do you?"
Higgs:
"Actually, I know only too well."
Now that you've been told by 7 seperate sources I'd like for you to
deny that there was a ban on foreigners from 1966-1980 Higgs, then
call me a liar and someone who doesn't know anything :))) PLEASE :)))
:)))
Jellore
> Who did they play against?
Fair question I suppose. If the Edinburgh club survived at least for
17 years, who in fact did they play against and what rules if any did
they abide by ?
kenh...@hotmail.com
> Benny wrote:
> > > Subject : World's first football club traced to Scotland
>
> > > As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
> > > presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
> > > late 60s/early 70s?
>
> > > You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
>
> > > Sucker
>
> > > Higgs
>
> Famous last words from Higgs:
> "No doubt someone else will put you out of your misery soon enough..."
>
> and well....
>
> Benny says:
>
> > Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones that
> > were already there weren't kicked out.
>
> LOLOL....Higgs, point...set...match....I own you Higgsie :))))
>
Like I said from the outset, you obviously knew nothing about the ban,
and since then you've lied and tried to misrepresent me as you've dug
a bigger hole for yourself
The key word is SIGNING, as Benny pointed out.
Your claim that all foreigners were banned from 66 onwards is patently
false.
You got taught a lesson (and the funny thing is, you don't even
realise it).
Continual lies are basically what everyone expects from you, and you
don't disappoint
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 28, 10:15�am, barca4eve...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Benny wrote:
> > > > Subject : World's first football club traced to Scotland
> > > �> From : kenhig...@hotmail.com
> >
> > > �> As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
> > > �> presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in the
> > > �> late 60s/early 70s?
> >
> > > �> You wouldn't have been posting lies to rss again, would you?
> >
> > > �> Sucker
> >
> > > �> Higgs
> >
> > Famous last words from Higgs:
> > "No doubt someone else will put you out of your misery soon enough..."
> >
> > and well....
> >
> > Benny says:
> >
> > > Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones that
> > > were already there weren't kicked out.
> > LOLOL....Higgs, point...set...match....I own you Higgsie :))))
LOL, you snipped the rest of it Higgs, how come? Not embarrassed
enough yet? :))))
Here you go:
and...
Why stop here Higgs?
:)))
Higgs says:
> Like I said from the outset, you obviously knew nothing about the ban,
Nah that was you. You went from calling me a liar, to pretending you
knew that it existed. You sad muppet.
You searched for what? 1 week to collect all the details? It was all
there for you Higgs. Wipe the egg off your face, there's nothing you
can do to hide from this uberly embarrassing moment.
Barca (Dec 17, 07):
"You do know there was a foreigner ban in Italy from 1966 till 1980,
right?"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?dmode=source
Alkami (Dec 17, 07):
"Actually I did not know that since I didnt get into the game until
about 1982. The point however still stands, that in the 80s Italy was
the prime importer of foreign players while having a very successful
national side."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?dmode=source
Higgs (dumbass) goes from (Dec 18, 07):
"The reason you didn't know that is because it simply isn't true.Don't
believe a word that lying little turd says."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?dmode=source
Higgs (Dec 23, 2007):
"Just how serious was this foreigner ban?"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/1736693b0aadbca8?dmode=source
MH (Dec 23, 2007):
"It was pretty serious- there was an extended period when clubs were
not
allowed to sign any foreign players."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/176f67065de1e9dd?dmode=source
Higgs (Dec 26, 2007):
"I guess this is the part that most surprises me. The partial ban..."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/43d675ce6504b642?dmode=source
MH (Dec 26, 2007):
"It was not a partial ban. They were not allowed to sign foreign
players."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/43d675ce6504b642?dmode=source
Higgs responds:
"But that's a moveable criteria. "
lol, moveable? Why is that, only because it proves you wrong? Where
would you like to move it to muppet boy? :))))
Hey Higgs is your lie that Giggs played for the English U21 team
moveable too?
Higgs (Dec 24, 2007):
" Giggs played U21 for England "
MH (Dec 26, 2007):
"WRONG! he played for England schoolboys, which he was entitled to do
since he went to school in England. He was never eligible to play for
England U21 or any other England team. Look it up." - OWNED AGAIN
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/ee496d8e03e0f110?dmode=source
This is fun. It's just not fair for you is it Higgs. It's like going
fishing with dynamite...not fair at all.
BTW Higgs, I really do own you :)))
kenh...@hotmail.com
>
Anyone who can be bothered to follow the link will find that what
LyingBarca actually said was:
"Perhaps the ban allowed for foreigners
who were already on the teams to stay but no new ones to come, I am
not entirely sure, I do know that this was implemented in 1966."
So I caught you red handed again, doctoring quotes this time
Too easy.
And if anyone does follow the link, they'll find your statement:
"In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League."
Which, as several people have pointed out to you recently, is clearly
wrong.
You got owned
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> "...the ban allowed for foreigners
> who were already on the teams to stay but no new ones to come, I am
> not entirely sure, I do know that this was implemented in 1966."
Seems I had it right about 7 days earlier than you, who had to ask MH,
Benny, and futbolmetrix what the ban was all about.
You then lied as you have been caught out before, and tried to pretend
you knew what it was about all along.
> So I caught you red handed again, doctoring quotes this time
>
> Too easy.
>
> And if anyone does follow the link, they'll find your statement:
which link? You obviously didn't post it because it doesn't exist...
yet another lie by higgs. Owning you is easy...
> "In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League."
Here are the real links and real quotes muppet boy :))
Barca: (Dec 18, 2007)
"...the ban allowed for foreigners
who were already on the teams to stay but no new ones to come..."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/e838faafa1d28f96?...
and...
MH (Dec 23, 2007):
"It was not a partial ban. They were not allowed to sign foreign
players. "
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/3b7af97ec73b93a5?...
barca4...@hotmail.com
Higgs, not knowing what UEFA's coefficient system is said:
"Putting forward a bunch of historical results as to when LL was
considered stronger and ignoring the current ranking seems a pretty
silly way of doing it."
when I presented UEFA's coefficient rankings that objectively prove
that Spain is still the "official" best league in Europe:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html
You even were dumb enough to come up with this gem after:
Higgs:
"How about putting forward rankings from the early 70s when Ajax &
Feyenoord were EC1 champs and then claiming the Dutch League is
currently the strongest? "
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/e04ab4cd3067f963?...
Clearly revealing that you hadn't a single idea that I was actually
posting the current rank, as per UEFA.
:)))
barca4...@hotmail.com
> So I caught you red handed again, doctoring quotes this time
> And if anyone does follow the link, they'll find your statement:
> "In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League."
Speaking of Doctoring quotes Higgs, it seems to be another one of your
specialties :))))
This was a statement from Wikipedia, after you accusing me of lying
about the 1966-1980 ban, something that Benny, MH, and Futbolmetrix
all confirmed was true, you lying twat :))
"In 1966, all foreigners were banned from the Italian League. Their
presence was blamed for the contued underperfomance of the national
side, culminating at the humiliating defeat by North Korea at that
year's World Cup[8]. The ban was eased when one foreigner per Serie A
team was allowed from 1980[9]." - third paragraph under the section
entitled 'Italian Oriundi'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriundo
LOL, now doctoring a wiki quote and trying to make it seem like I said
it Higgs? No shame, you have no shame :)) You are a sad sad muppet.
here is what I actually said:
Barca (Dec 17, 07):
"You do know there was a foreigner ban in Italy from 1966 till 1980,
right?"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?...
That's right Higgs, a *ban* not a *partial ban* like you thought, but
a ban....
Alkami (Dec 17, 07):
"Actually I did not know that since I didnt get into the game until
about 1982. The point however still stands, that in the 80s Italy was
the prime importer of foreign players while having a very successful
national side."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?...
Higgs (dumbass) goes from (Dec 18, 07):
"The reason you didn't know that is because it simply isn't true.Don't
believe a word that lying little turd says."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/9951c2a4d16a9ac0?...
^^^^ Higgs demonstrating he didn't have an understanding of the ban,
believing it never happened**
:)))
Higgs (Dec 23, 2007):
"Just how serious was this foreigner ban?"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/1736693b0aadbca8?...
5 days later now Higgs is inquiring in another thread, believing that
his inquiry would not be noticed, ROTFLMAO :)))
MH (Dec 23, 2007):
"It was pretty serious- there was an extended period when clubs were
not allowed to sign any foreign players."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/176f67065de1e9dd?...
Higgs (Dec 26, 2007):
"I guess this is the part that most surprises me. The partial ban..."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/43d675ce6504b642?...
Again demonstrating a lack of knowledge
MH (Dec 26, 2007):
"It was not a partial ban. They were not allowed to sign foreign
players."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/43d675ce6504b642?...
Higgs responds:
"But that's a moveable criteria. "
lol, moveable? Why is that, only because it proves you wrong? Where
would you like to move it to muppet boy? :))))
So Higgs now accepts defeat and asks:
" As I've been asking since early in the month, how do you explain the
presence of those Germans, Brazilians and Uruguayans in Serie A in
the
late 60s/early 70s?"
Even though both I and MH have explained to him that players already
in the Serie A were not kicked out, the 5 or so of them that
remained...but he needs to hear it a third time from Benny:
Benny (December 27, 2007)
"Italian clubs were banned from SIGNING foreigners. Obviously the ones
that
were already there weren't kicked out."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/msg/de0d5788154340c1?dmode=source
LOL, but get this...now having been told by Benny, MH, Myself and
Futbolmetrix, knowing there is no where to run as he has painted
himself into a corner, Higgs presents this gem:
"And a cigar to the man in the stripey shirt in the corner. "
hahahahahah...the snippets and links above show that Higgs was on a
mad frenzy trying to find out about the ban he initially accusing me
of lying about. When he found out it actually did occur, as I warned
him he would, he shifted to pretending he knew about it. Bawaaaaaaaaaa
Too funny.
Too Easy...
You're getting slaughtered Higgs, like you've been used to before. I
noticed it hasn't been the first time given your history in the
cricket and rugby newsgroups. You have a history of lying and then
being revealed as a know nothing twat. Too easy Higgs. Too easy :)))
But don't stop now...I'm having too much fun at your
expense... :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
kenh...@hotmail.com
> kenhig...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > "...the ban allowed for foreigners
> > who were already on the teams to stay but no new ones to come, I am
> > not entirely sure, I do know that this was implemented in 1966."
>
> Seems I had it right about 7 days earlier than you, who had to ask MH,
> Benny, and futbolmetrix what the ban was all about.
>
>
You lied, you got caught, you got owned
Higgs
barca4...@hotmail.com
> You lied,
about the ban right? ;)
>you got caught,
Yep, all of MH, Benny and Futbolmetrix completely agreed with you. It
never happened :)
>you got owned
I just slaughtered you, and there's not a damn thing you can do about
it...as you will soon see.
:)))