Brazilian NT squad for WCQs + Confederations Cup 2009
Jesus Petry
GKs:
Julio Cesar - Internazionale (ITA)
Gomes - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
Victor - Grêmio
DFs:
Maicon - Internazionale (ITA)
Daniel Alves - FC Barcelona (ESP)
Alex - Chelsea (ENG)
Juan - AS Roma (ITA)
Lúcio - Bayern München (GER)
Luisão - Benfica (POR)
Kléber - Internacional
André Santos - Corinthians
MFs:
Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
Josué - VfL Wolfsburg (GER)
Ramires - Cruzeiro
Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
Felipe Melo - Fiorentina (ITA)
Júlio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
FWs:
Kaká - AC Milan (ITA)
Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
Luís Fabiano - Sevilla FC (ESP)
Nilmar - Internacional
Robinho - Manchester City (ENG)
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Clément
Solid choices overall. Especially Ronaldinho's absence! Is he injured
or was he just not called?
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Jesus Petry
> Solid choices overall. Especially Ronaldinho's absence! Is he injured
> or was he just not called?
I think Dunga got tired of waiting for him to recover form.
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
未知
<jesus...@pop.com.br> wrote:
>******************************************
> GKs:
>Julio Cesar - Internazionale (ITA)
>Gomes - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
>Victor - Gr�mio
>
> DFs:
>Maicon - Internazionale (ITA)
>Daniel Alves - FC Barcelona (ESP)
>Alex - Chelsea (ENG)
>Juan - AS Roma (ITA)
>L�cio - Bayern M�nchen (GER)
>Luis�o - Benfica (POR)
>Kl�ber - Internacional
>Andr� Santos - Corinthians
>
> MFs:
>Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
>Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
>Josu� - VfL Wolfsburg (GER)
>Ramires - Cruzeiro
>Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
>Felipe Melo - Fiorentina (ITA)
>J�lio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
>
> FWs:
>Kak� - AC Milan (ITA)
>Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
>Lu�s Fabiano - Sevilla FC (ESP)
>Nilmar - Internacional
>Robinho - Manchester City (ENG)
>
> Tchau!
> Jesus Petry
Wow, no Ronaldinho. Even in his current form, I thought he'd still
make the squad.
Would anyone care to come up with the best lineup with the formation?
milivella
Thanks for the info!
Little analysis from a Fantasy Scout point of view:
> Victor - Grêmio
Eligible.
> André Santos - Corinthians
Eligible.
> Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
Picked by me! :)
> Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
Picked by Jesus.
PLayers 23-31 years old not called up by Dunga:
Rafinha (Andrea)
Thiago Neves (Daniele) :)
Ceara (Jesus)
Hernanes (Jesus)
Leandro Lima (Jesus)
Renan (Jesus) why not called up?
Bastos (Mark)
Geromel (Michael H.)
--
Cheers
milivella
Sid
> Jesus Petry:
>
> Thanks for the info!
>
> Little analysis from a Fantasy Scout point of view:
>
>> Victor - Gr�mio
>
> Eligible.
>
>> Andr� Santos - Corinthians
>
> Eligible.
Can I start the game and pick these two?
Sid
--
01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
Abubakr
>
> - Show quoted text -
No Rubinho (Genoa) or Fernando (Porto)? Dunga doesn't like to think
beyond the square much.
milivella
> On 2009-05-21 17:57:36 -0400, milivella <milive...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > Jesus Petry:
>
> > Thanks for the info!
>
> > Little analysis from a Fantasy Scout point of view:
>
> >> Victor - Grêmio
>
> > Eligible.
>
> >> André Santos - Corinthians
>
> > Eligible.
>
> Can I start the game and pick these two?
Of course. You are very welcome! :)
You are in, and Victor and A. Santos are yours. Drop an e-mail at
milivella @ gmail . com and I'll give the address of the other scouts.
You can find all you need to know (and something more) here:
http://fantasyscout.altervista.org/
--
Cheers
milivella
Abubakr
> On Thu, 21 May 2009 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT), Jesus Petry
>
>
>
>
>
> <jesuspe...@pop.com.br> wrote:
> >******************************************
> > GKs:
> >Julio Cesar - Internazionale (ITA)
> >Gomes - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
>
> > DFs:
> >Maicon - Internazionale (ITA)
> >Daniel Alves - FC Barcelona (ESP)
> >Alex - Chelsea (ENG)
> >Juan - AS Roma (ITA)
> >Luisão - Benfica (POR)
> >Kléber - Internacional
>
> > MFs:
> >Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
> >Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
> >Ramires - Cruzeiro
> >Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
> >Felipe Melo - Fiorentina (ITA)
>
> > FWs:
> >Kaká - AC Milan (ITA)
> >Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
> >Nilmar - Internacional
> >Robinho - Manchester City (ENG)
>
> > Tchau!
> > Jesus Petry
>
> Wow, no Ronaldinho. Even in his current form, I thought he'd still
> make the squad.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
----------Cesar
Alvez(Maicon) Lucio Alex Maicon (Kleber)
Elano (Alves) GS Melo
----------------Kaka
---------LF--------Pato
Why Diego keeps getting overlooked is beyond me.
MH
milivella wrote:
> Jesus Petry:
>
> Thanks for the info!
>
> Little analysis from a Fantasy Scout point of view:
>
>
>>Victor - Gr�mio
>
>
> Eligible.
>
>
>>Andr� Santos - Corinthians
>
>
> Eligible.
>
>
>>Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
>
>
> Picked by me! :)
>
>
>>Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
>
>
> Picked by Jesus.
>
> PLayers 23-31 years old not called up by Dunga:
> Rafinha (Andrea)
> Thiago Neves (Daniele) :)
> Ceara (Jesus)
> Hernanes (Jesus)
> Leandro Lima (Jesus)
> Renan (Jesus) why not called up?
Just back from injury. At least I assume that's why, he was still on the
bench for Valencia on the weekend.
MH
Abubakr wrote:
> On May 22, 5:23 am, Cl�ment <lcmello.lis...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>>On May 21, 3:41 pm, Jesus Petry wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>******************************************
>>> GKs:
>>>Julio Cesar - Internazionale (ITA)
>>>Gomes - Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
>>>Victor - Gr�mio
>>
>>> DFs:
>>>Maicon - Internazionale (ITA)
>>>Daniel Alves - FC Barcelona (ESP)
>>>Alex - Chelsea (ENG)
>>>Juan - AS Roma (ITA)
>>>L�cio - Bayern M�nchen (GER)
>>>Luis�o - Benfica (POR)
>>>Kl�ber - Internacional
>>>Andr� Santos - Corinthians
>>
>>> MFs:
>>>Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
>>>Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
>>>Josu� - VfL Wolfsburg (GER)
>>>Ramires - Cruzeiro
>>>Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
>>>Felipe Melo - Fiorentina (ITA)
>>>J�lio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
>>
>>> FWs:
>>>Kak� - AC Milan (ITA)
>>>Alexandre Pato - AC Milan (ITA)
>>>Lu�s Fabiano - Sevilla FC (ESP)
>>>Nilmar - Internacional
>>>Robinho - Manchester City (ENG)
>>
>>Solid choices overall. Especially Ronaldinho's absence! Is he injured
>>or was he just not called?
>>
>>Abra�o,
>>
>>Luiz Mello- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> No Rubinho (Genoa) or Fernando (Porto)? Dunga doesn't like to think
> beyond the square much.
Also no Grafite, no Renato Augusto.... these guys and others have done
enough in the the Bundesliga to merit a look - perhaps in the
Confederations cup ? - ahead of bench warmers like Anderson, has-beens
like Gilberto Silva, and never-really-wases like Julio Baptista.
milivella
> milivella wrote:
>
> > Renan (Jesus) why not called up?
>
> Just back from injury. At least I assume that's why, he was still on the
> bench for Valencia on the weekend.
Thanks! :)
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> Also no Grafite, no Renato Augusto.... these guys and others have done
> enough in the the Bundesliga to merit a look - perhaps in the
> Confederations cup ? - ahead of bench warmers like Anderson, has-beens
> like Gilberto Silva, and never-really-wases like Julio Baptista.
I agree with you. Bar the part about Anderson, of course! ;) Anyway,
in NTs there are often rigid hierarchies (sometimes I ask myself what
a given player should do to *not* being called up...). So let's settle
for Adriano, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho being out of the squad. :)
[Where the heck is Marcelo?!]
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> On 2009-05-21 17:57:36 -0400, milivella <milive...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > Jesus Petry:
>
> > Thanks for the info!
>
> > Little analysis from a Fantasy Scout point of view:
>
> >> Victor - Grêmio
>
> > Eligible.
>
> >> André Santos - Corinthians
>
> > Eligible.
>
> Can I start the game and pick these two?
As a little celebration for Sid joining the game, here is a story that
not everyone knows:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/16/books/16kero.html?_r=1
Jack Kerouac "obsessively played a fantasy baseball game of his own
invention" (!)
Here are some photos of Kerouac's fantasy notebooks:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/05/15/books/20090515_KERO_SLIDESHOW_index.html
--
Cheers
milivella
wany...@gmail.com
> MFs:
> Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
> Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
> Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
> Júlio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
Hmmm......
Enzo
> MFs:
> Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
> Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
> Josué - VfL Wolfsburg (GER)
> Ramires - Cruzeiro
> Elano - Manchester City (ENG)
> Felipe Melo - Fiorentina (ITA)
> Júlio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
>
That must be the weakest bunch of midfielders
I have ever seen on a selecao.
Clément
> Also no Grafite, no Renato Augusto.... these guys and others have done
> enough in the the Bundesliga to merit a look
Who knows what's on Dunga's mind, but I can tell you Grafite is not
widely seen as NT material around here. I've always thought he was a
very solid Brasileirão-level forward (i.e., one that should be a
starter in pretty much every team in the league), but still I was
pleasantly surprised at how well he is doing in Germany.
Plus, Grafite is 30 and was called up just once, by Parreira, IIRC. I
don't believe he actually played for the Seleção. It's doubtful he'll
get into the mix at this point, but it could happen.
Renato Augusto, OTOH, is young. Expect to see him get opportunities if
he is consistent/develops.
> - perhaps in the Confederations cup ?
Only if there are injuries? This should be the roster for the WCQ and
the Confederations Cup.
> - ahead of bench warmers like Anderson, has-beens
> like Gilberto Silva, and never-really-wases like Julio Baptista.
I understand people's criticism of Julio Baptista, but he's been
fairly effective for the Seleção. Like him or not, he didn't do
anything to hurt his chances to keep a spot. This is important. NT
coaches don't get a lot of time to experiment and build chemistry.
It's wise of them to change the roster as little as possible. Plus,
there is trust involved.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Clément
This might be true, but I'm not sure it could be a lot different.
I'm sure we all can point out individual players we would pick over
the ones on this list, but then there's the dilemma I mentioned in my
reply to MH.
I'd love to see Diego in there, for example, but did he really deliver
when he had the chance?
Given the circumstances, it's wise of Dunga not to change the squad a
lot. An untested player might fit right from the bat or flop entirely.
At least he knows what he can get from the players he worked with.
That said, I'd really like to see Ramires get playing time. He can
play midfield in both a more defensive or ofensive role, got speed,
and chips in the occasional goal.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Clément
Make it Benfica, who acquired him yesterday (although he should stay
with Cruzeiro until they end their Libertadores campaign).
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Abubakr
But was he really THAT bad when he was picked? And does this now mean
that he should NEVER be picked again by Dunga?
He is snubbing one of the very best players in the Bundesliga.
Enzo
I certainly dont know much about all this, but IMO the following
3 players are useless - well, not entirely useless, but not
Brasil standard.
Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
Jesus Petry
Not useless at all.
> Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
Past it.
> Júlio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
Not useless at all in a yellow shirt.
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Clément
> On 22 May, 21:50, Clément wrote:
>
> > I'd love to see Diego in there, for example, but did he really deliver
> > when he had the chance?
>
> > Given the circumstances, it's wise of Dunga not to change the squad a
> > lot. An untested player might fit right from the bat or flop entirely.
> > At least he knows what he can get from the players he worked with.
>
> But was he really THAT bad when he was picked? And does this now mean
> that he should NEVER be picked again by Dunga?
>
> He is snubbing one of the very best players in the Bundesliga.
You could argue whether he was really bad or whether it was more about
the [understandable] high expectations for him. The fact remains that
he didn't elevate himself to the occasion when given the chance.
And this is not about Dunga snubbing him. He's been on and off the
list since 2003.
Diego would probably be on my list if I were the coach, based strictly
on personal preference. But I don't think it's totally fair to
criticize the Seleção's coaches for not including him.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
milivella
> IMO the following
> 3 players are useless - well, not entirely useless, but not
> Brasil standard.
>
> Anderson - Manchester United (ENG)
> Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos (GRE)
> Júlio Baptista - AS Roma (ITA)
[and now I have to defend Anderson... hard task. But let's try.]
First of all, I assume that you are *not* putting Anderson on par with
the likes of Gilberto Silva and Julio Baptista.
Then, let's look at the numbers:
21 years old (born April 13, 1988)
In two seasons in the best team in the world, he has played 74 matches
(53 as a starter).
21 appearances (15 as a starter) in Champions League.
8 caps for Brazil.
8 yellow cards and 0 red cards in his entire career (not bad for a
defensive midfielder).
Silverware:
1 Club World Cup
1 Champions League [could be 2 in a couple of days]
1 Copa America
2 Premier League
2 Community Shield
1 League Cup
2 SuperLiga
1 Portuguese SuperCup
1 Taça de Portugal
Source:
http://www.footballdatabase.eu/football.joueurs.luis-de-abreu.anderson.17097.en.html
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> Jesus Petry:
>
> > Victor - Grêmio
>
> Eligible.
>
> > André Santos - Corinthians
>
> Eligible.
Ramires too should be eligible (sorry, I missed him).
--
Cheers
milivella
Abubakr
> First of all, I assume that you are *not* putting Anderson on par with
> the likes of Gilberto Silva and Julio Baptista.
>
> Then, let's look at the numbers:
>
> 21 years old (born April 13, 1988)
>
> In two seasons in the best team in the world
Would you be calling his team the best in the world in the two seasons
Anderson has been there had Terry not slipped and if Barcelona wins on
the weekend?
milivella
:)
If I had to defend my statement, I would refer to them winning the
EPL, that is the strongest league in the world, and you know the
league system is the fairest... Or them topping the Elo ranking the
last time I computed it:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/51b6ed10ed572317
But really, let's jus say that United are _one of the best club teams_
in the world (and so Brazil among the national teams!).
--
Cheers
milivella
Abubakr
> Abubakr:
>
> > On 26 May, 08:35, milivella <milive...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > First of all, I assume that you are *not* putting Anderson on par with
> > > the likes of Gilberto Silva and Julio Baptista.
>
> > > Then, let's look at the numbers:
>
> > > 21 years old (born April 13, 1988)
>
> > > In two seasons in the best team in the world
>
> > Would you be calling his team the best in the world in the two seasons
> > Anderson has been there had Terry not slipped and if Barcelona wins on
> > the weekend?
>
> :)
>
> If I had to defend my statement, I would refer to them winning the
> EPL, that is the strongest league in the world, and you know the
> league system is the fairest... Or them topping the Elo ranking the
>
> But really, let's jus say that United are _one of the best club teams_
> in the world (and so Brazil among the national teams!).
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
Okay, just for argument's sake, what makes EPL the strongest league,
performance in the CL, preponderance of the highest ranked teams in
your rating system, a gluttony of the best players in the world (we
should do a thread on this one)? Quoi?
milivella
> Okay, just for argument's sake, what makes EPL the strongest league,
> performance in the CL, preponderance of the highest ranked teams in
> your rating system, a gluttony of the best players in the world (we
> should do a thread on this one)? Quoi?
[Why have I tried to defend Anderson?!]
Well, all your hypothetical answers sound good to me. ;) But I would
reply with a question: under what criterion EPL is *not* the strongest
league in the world? It seems to me that every league ranking has EPL
in top spot, e.g. UEFA and IFFHS:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2009.html
http://www.iffhs.de/?b6e28fa3002f71504e52d17f7370eff3702bb1c2bb11
(Of course one could argue that these rankings are usually skewed
because they consider only the strength of the top teams. But - while
we wait Daniele's definitive study about inequality in different
leagues! - we can put these arguments aside, because we are talking
about how difficult it is to *win* a league, so we are basically
talking about top teams.)
--
Cheers
milivella
Enzo
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
Anyone have his goals/assists stats?
He seems to run a lot, but with little end product.
I may be wrong.
Benny
> From : s_deb...@yahoo.com
> Anyone have his goals/assists stats?
> He seems to run a lot, but with little end product.
> I may be wrong.
No you're correct. He's a DM now so in attacking terms there is zero end
product. 0 goals and 0 assists this season and only 17 games played.
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milivella
> > Subject : Brazilian NT squad for WCQs + Confederations Cup 2009
> > From : s_debgu...@yahoo.com
>
> > Anyone have his goals/assists stats?
> > He seems to run a lot, but with little end product.
> > I may be wrong.
>
> No you're correct. He's a DM now so in attacking terms there is zero end
> product. 0 goals and 0 assists this season and only 17 games played.
You all want too much from the poor Anderson... :)
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> Okay, I haven't followed this thread particularly closely, but I think Mr.
> Anderson has grown into the team gradually this season. I think he'll run
> around at OT for many years to come.
Finally I read the truth! Now, Anders, if you could add something on
Manchester United being the best team in the world... :)
--
Cheers
milivella
MH
Anderson (EPL) 11 starts, 6 subs
vs.
Fletcher 25 starts 1 sub
Carrick 24 and 4
Scholes 14 and 7
Giggs 15 and 13
He is 5th in the pecking order in midfield for Man united, or so it
would seem, -- if someone suggested Fletcher were good enough for
Brazil, what sort of reaction do you think he would get ?
Anderson (CL) 6 starts, 2 subs - in this case more starts than Scholes
and Giggs.
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
milivella
> He is 5th in the pecking order in midfield for Man united, or so it
> would seem, -- if someone suggested Fletcher were good enough for
> Brazil, what sort of reaction do you think he would get ?
...not better than the ones that you get if you suggest that Anderson
is good enough, I have to admit.
> Anderson (CL) 6 starts, 2 subs - in this case more starts than Scholes
> and Giggs.
Because Champions League is more important! ;)
(Really, I won't defend Anderson anymore - I'm becoming boring even to
myself -.)
--
Cheers
milivella
meistermag
I see that most of the players appearing in the Brazilian national
squad plays with clubs in Europe. Only 4 players are listed with
domestic clubs. Interesting, don't you think?
milivella
> I see that most of the players appearing in the Brazilian national
> squad plays with clubs in Europe. Only 4 players are listed with
> domestic clubs. Interesting, don't you think?
Yep. Also, it would be interesting to check stats of players playing
home vs. abroad in the squads of different nations in the years. A
starting point could be Wikipedia list of squads for major
tournaments, e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FIFA_World_Cup_squads
One year ago, I proposed a little quiz about this theme:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/dde5797dc64499d/
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> home vs. abroad in the squads of different nations in the years. A
> starting point could be Wikipedia list of squads for major
> tournaments, e.g.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FIFA_World_Cup_squads
E.g. Players playing abroad in Brazilian WC squads:
1930 0
1934 2 ||
1938 0
1950 0
1954 0
1958 0
1962 0
1966 0
1970 0
1974 0
1978 0
1982 2 ||
1986 2 ||
1990 10 ||||||||||
1994 12 ||||||||||||
1998 13 |||||||||||||
2002 11 |||||||||||
2006 20 ||||||||||||||||||||
Do you see a trend? ;)
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> Quoting milivella in rec.sport.soccer:
>
> >E.g. Players playing abroad in Brazilian WC squads:
> >1930 0
> >1934 2 ||
> >1938 0
> >1950 0
> >1954 0
> >1958 0
> >1962 0
> >1966 0
> >1970 0
> >1974 0
> >1978 0
>
> I guess the question must be asked. I'll volunteer.
> What the heck happened in 1934?
:) Two Brazilian players played in Uruguay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#.C2.A0Brazil
(quantum fluctuations, they call them)
--
Cheers
milivella