Scientific Smackdown: Skeptics Voted The Clear Winners Against Global Warming Believers in Heated NYC Debate
ka6uup
A little old but.....
Scientific Smackdown: Skeptics Voted The Clear Winners Against Global
Warming Believers in Heated NYC Debate
March 16, 2007
Posted By Marc Morano � 8:45 AM ET � Marc_...@EPW.Senate.gov
Just days before former Vice President Al Gore�s scheduled visit to
testify about global warming before the U.S. Senate Committee on
Environment & Public Works, a high profile climate debate between
prominent scientists Wednesday evening ended with global warming
skeptics being voted the clear winner by a tough New York City before an
audience of hundreds of people.
Before the start of the nearly two hour debate the audience polled 57.3%
to 29.9% in favor of believing that Global Warming was a �crisis�, but
following the debate the numbers completely flipped to 46.2% to 42.2% in
favor of the skeptical point of view. The audience also found humor at
the expense of former Vice President Gore�s reportedly excessive home
energy use.
After the stunning victory, one of the scientists on the side promoting
the belief in a climate "crisis" appeared to concede defeat by noting
his debate team was �pretty dull" and at "a sharp disadvantage" against
the skeptics. ScientificAmerican.com�s blog agreed, saying the believers
in a man-made climate catastrophe �seemed underarmed for the debate and,
not surprising, it swung against them."
The New York City audience laughed as Gore became the butt of humor
during the debate.
"What we see in this is an enormous danger for politicians in terms of
their hypocrisy. I�m not going to say anything about Al Gore and his
house. But it is a very serious point," quipped University of London
emeritus professor Philip Stott to laughter from the audience.
The audience also applauded a call by novelist Michael Crichton to stop
the hypocrisy of environmentalists and Hollywood liberals by enacting a
ban on private jet travel.
"Let�s have the NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council), the Sierra
Club and Greenpeace make it a rule that all of their members, cannot fly
on private jets. They must get their houses off the [power] grid. They
must live in the way that they�re telling everyone else to live. And if
they won�t do that, why should we? And why should we take them
seriously?" Crichton said to applause audience. (For more debate quotes
see bottom of article)
The debate was sponsored by the Oxford-style debating group Intelligence
Squared and featured such prominent man-made global warming skeptics as
MIT scientist Richard Lindzen, the University of London emeritus
professor of biogeography Philip Stott and Physician turned
Novelist/filmmaker Michael Crichton on one side.
The scientists arguing for a climate �crisis� were NASA scientist Gavin
Schmidt, meteorologist Richard C.J. Somerville of the Scripps
Institution of Oceanography and Brenda Ekwurzel of the Union of
Concerned Scientists. The event, which was moderated by New York Public
Radio�s Brian Lehrer, debated the proposition: "Global warming is not a
crisis.�
Skeptics Dramatically Convinced Audience
The skeptics achieved the vote victory despite facing an audience that
had voted 57% in favor of the belief that mankind has created a climate
"crisis" moments before the debate began.
But by the end of the debate, the audience dramatically reversed
themselves and became convinced by the arguments presented by the
skeptical scientists. At the conclusion, the audience voted for the
views of the skeptics by a margin of 46.2% to 42.2%. Skeptical audience
members grew from a pre-debate low of 29.9% to a post debate high of
46.2% -- a jump of nearly 17 percentage points. [Link to official
audience voting results]
[Link to full debate pdf transcript]
Scientist Concedes Debate To Skeptics
NASA�s Gavin Schmidt, one of the scientists debating for the notion of a
man-made global warming "crisis" conceded after the debate that his side
was �pretty dull� and was at "a sharp disadvantage." Schmidt made the
comments in a March 15 blog posting at RealClimate.org.
"�I'm afraid the actual audience (who by temperament I'd say were split
roughly half/half on the question) were apparently more convinced by the
entertaining narratives from [Novelist Michael] Crichton and [UK�s
Philip] Stott (not so sure about Lindzen) than they were by our drier
fare. Entertainment-wise it's hard to blame them. Crichton is extremely
polished and Stott has a touch of the revivalist preacher about him.
Comparatively, we were pretty dull," Schmidt wrote.
�Advantage: Climate Contrarians�
The ScientificAmerican.com�s blog also declared the global warming
skeptics the clear winner of the debate in a March 15 post titled:
"Debate Skills? Advantage: Climate Contrarians."
"The proponents [of a climate crisis] seemed underarmed for the debate
and, not surprisingly, it swung against them, particularly when Schmidt
made the fatal debating error of dismissing the ability of the audience
to judge the scientific nuances," ScientificAmerican.com�s David Biello
wrote.
The advocates of climate alarmism "were faced with the folksy anecdotes
of Crichton and the oratorical fire of Stott," Biello wrote at
ScientificAmerican.com.
Biello concluded, "�the audience responded to Crichton's satirical call
for a ban on private jets more than Ekwurzel's vague we need to throw
�everything we can at the climate crisis.� By the final vote, 46 percent
of the audience had been convinced that global warming was indeed not a
crisis, while just 42 percent persisted in their opinion that it was."
Biello also criticized climate "crisis" advocate Richard Somerville as
"perplexed" and "hardly inspiring."
Skeptic�s �Very Popular�
Debate participant Schmidt lamented that the evening turned into one of
futility for believers in a man-made global warming catastrophe.
"Crichton went with the crowd-pleasing condemnation of private
jet-flying liberals - very popular, even among the private jet-flying
Eastsiders present and the apparent hypocrisy of people who think that
global warming is a problem using any energy at all."
Schmidt continued, "Stott is a bit of a force of nature and essentially
accused anyone who thinks global warming is a problem of explicitly
rooting for misery and poverty in the third world. He also brought up
the whole cosmic ray issue as the next big thing in climate science."
Schmidt appeared so demoralized that he mused that debates equally split
between believers of a climate �crisis� and scientific skeptics are
probably not �worthwhile� to ever agree to again.
Selected Quotes from the climate debate from transcript: [Link to full
debate pdf transcript]
Skeptical quotes from Novelist Michael Crichton:
"I would like to suggest a few symbolic actions that right�might really
mean something. One of them, which is very simple, 99% of the American
population doesn�t care, is ban private jets. Nobody needs to fly in
them, ban them now. And, and in addition, [APPLAUSE] "Let�s have the
NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council), the Sierra Club and Greenpeace
make it a rule that all of their members, cannot fly on private jets.
They must get their houses off the [electrical] grid. They must live in
the way that they�re telling everyone else to live. And if they won�t do
that, why should we? And why should we take them seriously? [APPLAUSE]"
"I suddenly think about my friends, you know, getting on their private
jets. And I think, well, you know, maybe they have the right idea. Maybe
all that we have to do is mouth a few platitudes, show a good,
expression of concern on our faces, buy a Prius, drive it around for a
while and give it to the maid, attend a few fundraisers and you�re done.
Because, actually, all anybody really wants to do is talk about it."
"I mean, haven�t we actually raised temperatures so much that we, as
stewards of the planet, have to act? These are the questions that
friends of mine ask as they are getting on board their private jets to
fly to their second and third homes. [LAUGHTER]"
"Everyday 30,000 people on this planet die of the diseases of poverty.
There are, a third of the planet doesn�t have electricity. We have a
billion people with no clean water. We have half a billion people going
to bed hungry every night. Do we care about this? It seems that we
don�t. It seems that we would rather look a hundred years into the
future than pay attention to what�s going on now. I think that's
unacceptable. I think that�s really a disgrace."
Skeptical quotes of University of London�s emeritus professor of
biogeography Philip Stott:
"What we see in this is an enormous danger for politicians in terms of
their hypocrisy. I�m not going to say anything about Al Gore and his
house. [LAUGHTER] But it is a very serious point."
"In the early 20th century, 95% of scientists believe in eugenics.
[LAUGHTER] Science does not progress by consensus, it progresses by
falsification and by what we call paradigm shifts."
"The first Earth Day in America claimed the following, that because of
global cooling, the population of America would have collapsed to 22
million by the year 2000. And of the average calorie intake of the
average American would be wait for this, 2,400 calories, would good it
were. [LAUGHTER] It�s nonsense and very dangerous. And what we have
fundamentally forgotten is simple primary school science. Climate always
changes."
"Angela Merkel the German chancellor, my own good prime minister (Tony
Blair) for whom I voted -- let me emphasize, arguing in public two weeks
ago as to who in Annie get the gun style could produce the best
temperature. �I could do two degrees C said Angela.� �No, I could only
do three said Tony.� [LAUGHTER] Stand back a minute, those are
politicians, telling you that they can control climate to a degree Celsius.�
�And can I remind everybody that IPCC that we keep talking about, very
honestly admits that we know very little about 80% of the factors behind
climate change. Well let�s use an engineer; I don�t think I�d want to
cross Brooklyn Bridge if it were built by an engineer who only
understood 80% of the forces on that bridge. [LAUGHTER]�
Skeptical quotes of MIT�s Professor of Atmospheric Science Richard Lindzen:
"Now, much of the current alarm, I would suggest, is based on ignorance
of what is normal for weather and climate."
"The impact on temperature per unit carbon dioxide actually goes down,
not up, with increasing CO2. The role of anthropogenic greenhouse gases
is not directly related to the emissions rate or even CO2 levels, which
is what the legislation is hitting on, but rather to the impact of these
gases on the greenhouse effect."
"The real signature of greenhouse warming is not surface temperature but
temperature in the middle of the troposphere, about five kilometers. And
that is going up even slower than the temperature at the surface."
# # #
Related Links:
Global Warming on Mars & Cosmic Ray Research Are Shattering Media Driven
"Consensus�
Global Warming: The Momentum has Shifted to Climate Skeptics
Prominent French Scientist Reverses Belief in Global Warming - Now a Skeptic
Weather Channel TV Host Goes 'Political'- Stars in Global Warming Film
Accusing U.S. Government of �Criminal Neglect�
Weather Channel Climate Expert Calls for Decertifying Global Warming
Skeptics
AMS Certified Weatherman Strikes Back At Weather Channel Call For
Decertification
The Weather Channel Climate Expert Refuses to Retract Call for
Decertification for Global Warming Skeptics
Senator Inhofe Announces Public Release Of "Skeptic�s Guide To Debunking
Global Warming"
bpnjensen
> A little old but.....
>
> Scientific Smackdown: Skeptics Voted The Clear Winners Against Global
> Warming Believers in Heated NYC Debate
> March 16, 2007
>
>
> Just days before former Vice President Al Gore’s scheduled visit to
> testify about global warming before the U.S. Senate Committee on
> Environment & Public Works, a high profile climate debate between
> prominent scientists Wednesday evening ended with global warming
> skeptics being voted the clear winner by a tough New York City before an
> audience of hundreds of people.
>
> Before the start of the nearly two hour debate the audience polled 57.3%
> following the debate the numbers completely flipped to 46.2% to 42.2% in
> favor of the skeptical point of view. The audience also found humor at
> energy use.
>
> After the stunning victory, one of the scientists on the side promoting
> the belief in a climate "crisis" appeared to concede defeat by noting
> the skeptics. ScientificAmerican.com’s blog agreed, saying the believers
> in a man-made climate catastrophe “seemed underarmed for the debate and,
> not surprising, it swung against them."
>
> The New York City audience laughed as Gore became the butt of humor
> during the debate.
>
> "What we see in this is an enormous danger for politicians in terms of
> house. But it is a very serious point," quipped University of London
> emeritus professor Philip Stott to laughter from the audience.
>
> The audience also applauded a call by novelist Michael Crichton to stop
> the hypocrisy of environmentalists and Hollywood liberals by enacting a
> ban on private jet travel.
>
> Club and Greenpeace make it a rule that all of their members, cannot fly
> on private jets. They must get their houses off the [power] grid. They
> they won’t do that, why should we? And why should we take them
> seriously?" Crichton said to applause audience. (For more debate quotes
> see bottom of article)
>
> The debate was sponsored by the Oxford-style debating group Intelligence
> Squared and featured such prominent man-made global warming skeptics as
> MIT scientist Richard Lindzen, the University of London emeritus
> professor of biogeography Philip Stott and Physician turned
> Novelist/filmmaker Michael Crichton on one side.
>
> Schmidt, meteorologist Richard C.J. Somerville of the Scripps
> Institution of Oceanography and Brenda Ekwurzel of the Union of
> Concerned Scientists. The event, which was moderated by New York Public
> crisis.”
>
> Skeptics Dramatically Convinced Audience
>
> The skeptics achieved the vote victory despite facing an audience that
> had voted 57% in favor of the belief that mankind has created a climate
> "crisis" moments before the debate began.
>
> But by the end of the debate, the audience dramatically reversed
> themselves and became convinced by the arguments presented by the
> skeptical scientists. At the conclusion, the audience voted for the
> views of the skeptics by a margin of 46.2% to 42.2%. Skeptical audience
> members grew from a pre-debate low of 29.9% to a post debate high of
> 46.2% -- a jump of nearly 17 percentage points. [Link to official
> audience voting results]
>
> [Link to full debate pdf transcript]
>
> Scientist Concedes Debate To Skeptics
>
> man-made global warming "crisis" conceded after the debate that his side
> comments in a March 15 blog posting at RealClimate.org.
>
> roughly half/half on the question) were apparently more convinced by the
> Philip] Stott (not so sure about Lindzen) than they were by our drier
> fare. Entertainment-wise it's hard to blame them. Crichton is extremely
> polished and Stott has a touch of the revivalist preacher about him.
> Comparatively, we were pretty dull," Schmidt wrote.
>
>
> The ScientificAmerican.com’s blog also declared the global warming
> skeptics the clear winner of the debate in a March 15 post titled:
> "Debate Skills? Advantage: Climate Contrarians."
>
> "The proponents [of a climate crisis] seemed underarmed for the debate
> and, not surprisingly, it swung against them, particularly when Schmidt
> made the fatal debating error of dismissing the ability of the audience
> wrote.
>
> The advocates of climate alarmism "were faced with the folksy anecdotes
> of Crichton and the oratorical fire of Stott," Biello wrote at
> ScientificAmerican.com.
>
> for a ban on private jets more than Ekwurzel's vague we need to throw
> of the audience had been convinced that global warming was indeed not a
> crisis, while just 42 percent persisted in their opinion that it was."
>
> Biello also criticized climate "crisis" advocate Richard Somerville as
> "perplexed" and "hardly inspiring."
>
>
> Debate participant Schmidt lamented that the evening turned into one of
> futility for believers in a man-made global warming catastrophe.
>
> "Crichton went with the crowd-pleasing condemnation of private
> jet-flying liberals - very popular, even among the private jet-flying
> Eastsiders present and the apparent hypocrisy of people who think that
> global warming is a problem using any energy at all."
>
> Schmidt continued, "Stott is a bit of a force of nature and essentially
> accused anyone who thinks global warming is a problem of explicitly
> rooting for misery and poverty in the third world. He also brought up
> the whole cosmic ray issue as the next big thing in climate science."
>
> Schmidt appeared so demoralized that he mused that debates equally split
> probably not “worthwhile” to ever agree to again.
>
> Selected Quotes from the climate debate from transcript: [Link to full
> debate pdf transcript]
>
> Skeptical quotes from Novelist Michael Crichton:
>
> mean something. One of them, which is very simple, 99% of the American
> them, ban them now. And, and in addition, [APPLAUSE] "Let’s have the
> NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council), the Sierra Club and Greenpeace
> make it a rule that all of their members, cannot fly on private jets.
> They must get their houses off the [electrical] grid. They must live in
> that, why should we? And why should we take them seriously? [APPLAUSE]"
>
> "I suddenly think about my friends, you know, getting on their private
> jets. And I think, well, you know, maybe they have the right idea. Maybe
> all that we have to do is mouth a few platitudes, show a good,
> expression of concern on our faces, buy a Prius, drive it around for a
> Because, actually, all anybody really wants to do is talk about it."
>
> stewards of the planet, have to act? These are the questions that
> friends of mine ask as they are getting on board their private jets to
> fly to their second and third homes. [LAUGHTER]"
>
> "Everyday 30,000 people on this planet die of the diseases of poverty.
> billion people with no clean water. We have half a billion people going
> to bed hungry every night. Do we care about this? It seems that we
> future than pay attention to what’s going on now. I think that's
> unacceptable. I think that’s really a disgrace."
>
> Skeptical quotes of University of London’s emeritus professor of
> biogeography Philip Stott:
>
> "What we see in this is an enormous danger for politicians in terms of
> house. [LAUGHTER] But it is a very serious point."
>
> "In the early 20th century, 95% of scientists believe in eugenics.
> [LAUGHTER] Science does not progress by consensus, it progresses by
> falsification and by what we call paradigm shifts."
>
> "The first Earth Day in America claimed the following, that because of
> global cooling, the population of America would have collapsed to 22
> million by the year 2000. And of the average calorie intake of the
> average American would be wait for this, 2,400 calories, would good it
> fundamentally forgotten is simple primary school science. Climate always
> changes."
>
> "Angela Merkel the German chancellor, my own good prime minister (Tony
> Blair) for whom I voted -- let me emphasize, arguing in public two weeks
> ago as to who in Annie get the gun style could produce the best
> do three said Tony.’ [LAUGHTER] Stand back a minute, those are
> politicians, telling you that they can control climate to a degree Celsius.”
>
> “And can I remind everybody that IPCC that we keep talking about, very
> honestly admits that we know very little about 80% of the factors behind
> cross Brooklyn Bridge if it were built by an engineer who only
>
> Skeptical quotes of MIT’s Professor of Atmospheric Science Richard Lindzen:
>
> "Now, much of the current alarm, I would suggest, is based on ignorance
> of what is normal for weather and climate."
>
> "The impact on temperature per unit carbon dioxide actually goes down,
> not up, with increasing CO2. The role of anthropogenic greenhouse gases
> is not directly related to the emissions rate or even CO2 levels, which
> is what the legislation is hitting on, but rather to the impact of these
> gases on the greenhouse effect."
>
> "The real signature of greenhouse warming is not surface temperature but
> temperature in the middle of the troposphere, about five kilometers. And
> that is going up even slower than the temperature at the surface."
>
> # # #
>
> Related Links:
>
> Global Warming on Mars & Cosmic Ray Research Are Shattering Media Driven
>
> Global Warming: The Momentum has Shifted to Climate Skeptics
>
> Prominent French Scientist Reverses Belief in Global Warming - Now a Skeptic
>
> Weather Channel TV Host Goes 'Political'- Stars in Global Warming Film
>
> Weather Channel Climate Expert Calls for Decertifying Global Warming
> Skeptics
>
> AMS Certified Weatherman Strikes Back At Weather Channel Call For
> Decertification
>
> The Weather Channel Climate Expert Refuses to Retract Call for
> Decertification for Global Warming Skeptics
>
> Global Warming"
This is all beside the point and irrelevant. Science is not about
convincing paid skeptics or the audience of accountants and plumbers
and bus drivers and pet store owners. It is not about being popular
or witty. It is about finding the answers to physical questions by
using data, measurement, tests and repetition. That is has always
been the case, and and will always be the case.
In other words, the fact that this "debate" exhibited better
showmanship by the P. T. Barnums and Florence Ziegfelds of the
pseudoscience world means nothing.
Bruce Jensen
dxAce
bpnjensen wrote:
The only 'showmanship' is that exhibited by Al Gore and the other clown 'tards.
Do some research Bruce, look at the historical record, and you'll find that
climate has been changing since day one, and the reality is that ultimately, when
the sun reaches it's last days, the earth will burn, and will be merely a rock
somewhere in the grand scheme of things.
If, as many of you seem wont to do, and that is, tax folks, then I suggest you get
your wallet out and send in a bit extra come April.
I suggest that you tell Boy Barry the same thing, as on his last return he took
advantage of the 'Bush' tax measures.
Did he get out his wallet, or whatever the folks from the 'hood' carry these days
and send in a bit extra? No, he did not.
Your Boy Barry is a liar.
J R
Winter time.Bit, Earth's Northern Hemisphere is tilted more toward the
Sun and receiving more Sun light than in the Winter time.
I still (jokeingly) say it is all that 'Ether' that is doing it.
cuhulin, Ether R ME
RHF
One Must Begin To Ask...
How Many Shares BpnJ Owns in Al Gores
Carbon Credits Corps ? ? ?
Al Gore The Great Profit of Global Warming !
payola big or small is still payola ~ RHF
.
Another Absurd Climate Gate Moment !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/95fe5b213fcf20c4
.
Climate-Gate : The 21st Century's Biggest Scientific SCAM !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/03f8f34788943898
.
.
bpnjensen
> The only 'showmanship' is that exhibited by Al Gore and the other clown 'tards.
>
> Do some research Bruce, look at the historical record, and you'll find that
> climate has been changing since day one, and the reality is that ultimately, when
> the sun reaches it's last days, the earth will burn, and will be merely a rock
> somewhere in the grand scheme of things.
>
> If, as many of you seem wont to do, and that is, tax folks, then I suggest you get
> your wallet out and send in a bit extra come April.
>
> I suggest that you tell Boy Barry the same thing, as on his last return he took
> advantage of the 'Bush' tax measures.
>
> Did he get out his wallet, or whatever the folks from the 'hood' carry these days
> and send in a bit extra? No, he did not.
>
> Your Boy Barry is a liar.
Sorry, Chief - I am an atmospheric scientist, and I know how it
works. When you get a degree from an actual program, we can talk.
Until then, take your glossed-over pseudoscience and stuff it.
Your tax comments are absurd and unrelated.
Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.
bpnjensen
> .
> Climate-Gate : The 21st Century's Biggest Scientific SCAM !http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/03f8f34788943898
> .
> .
You're an uneducated idiot.
D. Peter Maus
> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> inbreeding.
You're better than that, Bruce.
dave
>
> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> inbreeding.
It's not really lying if you believe what you say is true. Republicans
live in a bubble of disinformation and voluntary ignorance. Not the same
as lying.
MNMikew
"bpnjensen" <bpnj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:00fd85eb-a55f-4296...@g5g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 4:03 pm, dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:
> The only 'showmanship' is that exhibited by Al Gore and the other clown
> 'tards.
>
> Do some research Bruce, look at the historical record, and you'll find
> that
> climate has been changing since day one, and the reality is that
> ultimately, when
> the sun reaches it's last days, the earth will burn, and will be merely a
> rock
> somewhere in the grand scheme of things.
>
> If, as many of you seem wont to do, and that is, tax folks, then I suggest
> you get
> your wallet out and send in a bit extra come April.
>
> I suggest that you tell Boy Barry the same thing, as on his last return he
> took
> advantage of the 'Bush' tax measures.
>
> Did he get out his wallet, or whatever the folks from the 'hood' carry
> these days
> and send in a bit extra? No, he did not.
>
> Your Boy Barry is a liar.
Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.
-----------------------------
So much for your "I'm a scientist" meme.
MNMikew
"D. Peter Maus" <dpete...@att.net> wrote in message
news:j1ua70$uee$1...@dont-email.me...
D. Peter Maus
Actually, he's generally more reasoned than this outburst. He
and I may disagree, but I rarely see this kind of bitterness.
MNMikew
dave
> Most AGW alarmists are pretty bitter.
>
>
dave
dxAce
"D. Peter Maus" wrote:
My reply to Bruce is:
I guess we'll just have to disagree.
I respect Bruce for his monitoring observations, and his help to me over the
years, and I guess we'll have to leave our political views out of the mix.
dxAce
dxAce wrote:
On another note, I try console myself with the great music of my friend Steve
Goodman.
Do a google, one of my favourites is "Eight Ball Blues".
RHF
- On Aug 10, 3:13 am, RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
.
Scientific Smackdown: Skeptics Voted The Clear Winners
Against Global Warming Believers in Heated NYC Debate
-posted-by- ka6uup
-and-reply-by- Bruce Jensen
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bedf496a5fb56e41?
.
- - One Must Begin To Ask...
- -
- - How Many Shares BpnJ Owns in Al Gores
- - Carbon Credits Corps ? ? ?
- -
- - Al Gore The Great Profit of Global Warming !
- -
- - payola big or small is still payola ~ RHF
- - .
- - Another Absurd Climate Gate Moment !
- - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/95fe5b213fcf20c4
- - .
- - Climate-Gate : The 21st Century's Biggest Scientific SCAM !
- - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/03f8f34788943898
- - .
- - .
- You're an uneducated idiot.
BpnJ,
You are getting good at the Al Gore 'Rage-&-Rant' Thingee :o)
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/politics/stories/al-gore-rant-why-the-climate-debate-is-heating-up
You have elevated yourself from simple rank-and-file of
'Global Warming' to the rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
Oops ! Climate-Gate Did Happen Yet Another
Inconvenient Truth !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/dcf3800097470e85
.
LET'S ALL CHANT THE CLIMATE-GATE© MANTRA :
IT'S SETTLED SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE [.]
-wrt- Another Absurd Climate Gate© Moment !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a84493147109bb61
.
.
dave
J R
the Night!, Beautiful.
Highland Village shopping mall in North Jackson used to have an old
double decker bus sitting out front for advertizing purpose.It might
still be there, I haven't been out that way in about ten years.
http://www.highlandvillagems.com
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
It is called 'advertizing' for the 2012 Summer Olympics . What a bunch
of sick puppies !
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
So that is why... I sort of suspected it for years ! INBREEDING .
bpnjensen
"Voluntary" ignorance is the key. If it's voluntary, it's a lie.
bpnjensen
> "D. Peter Maus" <dpeterm...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:j1ugqo$k25$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
> > On 8/10/11 12:32 , MNMikew wrote:
> >>news:j1ua70$uee$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>> On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:
>
> >>>> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> >>>> inbreeding.
>
> >>> You're better than that, Bruce.
>
> >> Not really.
>
> > Actually, he's generally more reasoned than this outburst. He and I may
> > disagree, but I rarely see this kind of bitterness.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Again, MnMike is a person who doesn't know what the hell he's talking
about, making believe he does.
bpnjensen
Sorry - I was just responding to Steve's silliness ;-)
bpnjensen
> < 1KViewDownload
So I'm just curious - what do we object to here? The "Republicans are
liars" thing, which is arguably true, or the "inbreeding" thing, which
is obviously a crude joke? I don't understand why the knee-jerk
conservatives can make one disgraceful comment about liberals after
another, including veiled threats to kill them, and when a liberal
does it he gets picked on by everyone? The hypocrisy is so thick you
can cut with a jackhammer.
Bruce
bpnjensen
> On 8/10/11 12:32 , MNMikew wrote:
>
> >news:j1ua70$uee$1...@dont-email.me...
> >> On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:
>
> >>> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> >>> inbreeding.
>
> >> You're better than that, Bruce.
>
> > Not really.
>
> Actually, he's generally more reasoned than this outburst. He
> and I may disagree, but I rarely see this kind of bitterness.
If there is bitterness, it is because the problem of human-forced
climate change has been KNOWN for decades by scientists across the
political spectrum, before Al Gore, even before you or I were born,
and there wasn't any frigging serious controversy about the ethics or
basic science of it until the oil companies caught wind of it and
started pumping $billions into propaganda campaigns against honest,
intelligent scientists - and showing their absolute lust for greed and
total contempt for humanity, the natural world and all of its
inhabitants. When we were becoming equipped to actually handle the
problem, the demagogues decided their profits were more important than
the planet, and came out with all the BS. On this matter, yes, I am
bitter.
Bruce Jensen
bpnjensen
> On Aug 10, 8:46 am, bpnjensen <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> - On Aug 10, 3:13 am, RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> .
> Scientific Smackdown: Skeptics Voted The Clear Winners
> -posted-by- ka6uup
> -and-reply-by- Bruce Jensenhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bedf496a5fb56e41?
> .
> - - One Must Begin To Ask...
> - -
> - - How Many Shares BpnJ Owns in Al Gores
> - - Carbon Credits Corps ? ? ?
> - -
> - - Al Gore The Great Profit of Global Warming !
> - -
> - - payola big or small is still payola ~ RHF
> - - .
> - - Another Absurd Climate Gate Moment !
> - - .
> - - Climate-Gate : The 21st Century's Biggest Scientific SCAM !
> - - .
> - - .
>
> - You're an uneducated idiot.
>
> BpnJ,
>
>
> You have elevated yourself from simple rank-and-file of
> 'Global Warming' to the rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
>
> Oops ! Climate-Gate Did Happen Yet Another
> .
> LET'S ALL CHANT THE CLIMATE-GATE© MANTRA :
> IT'S SETTLED SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE [.]
> -wrt- Another Absurd Climate Gate© Moment !http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a84493147109bb61
> .
> .
Your Al Gore reference is smoke and mirrors, and completely
irrelevant. The settled science part are your words, not mine, and
completely innaccurate. Please educate yourself wity something other
than Faux News.
bpnjensen
> "bpnjensen" <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, like you'd know. So it's OK for a conservative to insult the
hell out of a liberal, but what's good for the goose is not for the
gander? Hypocrite.
m II
Your statistics are off. Only 97 percent of politicians are liars. The
problem is they've been doing it so long they don't even realize they're
doing it. Some lies span generations.
28 percent are closet pedophiles and 65 percent have re-occurring
homosexual fantasies. That last number is far less than the perversion
numbers in Holland, MI., where, admittedly, the numbers are skewed
because of ONE ex Navy reprobate doing WAY more than his share.
Let's not get started on the infidelities and various forms of drug
addiction being practiced by the so called servants of the people.
Politicians are scum. Those in power at the time are bigger scum. It's a
matter of opportunity.
mike
--
I barf at the barfable because I am superior.
Debra Dee Freeman
D. Peter Maus
Mike Myers says that silliness is a State of Grace.
One of the reasons so many people are so angry and tense is that
they've lost their silly.
D. Peter Maus
Actually, 'The science is settled' is a quote of Algore. He said
it at the Oscars, he's said it on Charlie Rose.
He's said it numerous places.
MNMikew
------------------
Thanks for proving my point.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
As I said before, *Al Gore is irrelevant to the actual issue*. He is
only a messenger. To blithely discredit 150 years of long and
thoughtful research by physicists, meterologists, climatologists,
oceanographers, mathematicians and astronomers, peer review after peer
review of every single hypothesis vetted to the nth degree, and a
science which freely admits that it still must answer some of the more
intractable questions to provide a complete picture - as every true
science does, every time - because you don't like the messenger - is
just ugly, unscientific politics. To do it because of greedy,
narcissistic motives is reprehensible and immoral.
Science has given us EVERY good thing we have beyond basic food, water
and land. We love our PCs and radios and TVs and transportation and
modern medicine and thank science for it, and rightfully so. However,
science is not always the bearer of benign or conveniently profitable
news. Sometimes it brings us bad news, sometimes news that even
challenges the existing power structure. Galileo and Darwin
challenged the church (and some willful people, to this day, still
disagree with both of these guys) - but their basic science is sound,
as is all true science, and has eventually won the day. Like the
science of Galileo and Darwin, the science of human-induced climate
change challenges the existing power structrure - nowadays,
concentrated wealth like the Koch Brothers and big oil/coal - and
consequently their propaganda machines are working in overtime to
preserve their power. As a result, Al Gore is bad and = climate
change science, and no-nothing reporters at Faux and Drudge are the
experts after spending zero years in actual research.
History repeats itself, and we have fallen into the same old trap of
ignorance and rebellion against inconvenience at the behest of the
powerful. The difference, this time, is that the fate of many forms
of life on the planet, as well as the security and well-being of
billions of people, hang in the balance.
Ignore Al Gore if you don't like him. He's just a politician. But
the science was, and is, conducted as it should be, and like all true
science that takes time and effort, is gradually yielding the correct
answer. We ridicule and ignore it at our own peril.
Bruce Jensen
MNMikew
MNMikew
Bruce Jensen
--------------------
And thus we get at the crux of the Church of Global Warming. Class warfare.
And don't forget your PCs, radios, TVs, transportation and modern medicine
would not exist without evil oil.
bpnjensen
> "bpnjensen" <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Irrelevant.
bpnjensen
> "D. Peter Maus" <dpeterm...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:j213gh$62j$2...@dont-email.me...
>
> - Show quoted text -
..and your credentials are...? I thought so.
bpnjensen
That, and their meager retirements, their small fortunes, their tiny
security, their college tuitions, their livelihoods. Yeah, just try
smiling again! That'll fix everything!
MNMikew
-------------------
You're right. I'm not a disciple of Al Gore. You on the other hand...
bpnjensen
> "bpnjensen" <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You made my point perfectly. Nothing between the ears. You also
cannot read or understand the written word.
Get literate. Get educated. Then, and only then, will we have a
common basis for discussion. Until then, cya.
bpnjensen
bpnjensen
> "bpnjensen" <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bitter maybe, but no less correct. You literally don't what the hell
you're talking about, wallow in joyful self-imposed ignorance, and
have not a single credential to your name. All you know is what the
oil propaganda machine tells you. Educate yourself, or STFU.
RHF
> On Aug 11, 10:26 am, "D. Peter Maus" <dpeterm...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/11/11 10:27 , bpnjensen wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 10, 9:04 am, "D. Peter Maus"<dpeterm...@att.net> wrote:
> > >> On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:
>
> > >>> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> > >>> inbreeding.
>
> > >> You're better than that, Bruce.
>
> > > Sorry - I was just responding to Steve's silliness ;-)
>
> > Mike Myers says that silliness is a State of Grace.
>
> > One of the reasons so many people are so angry and tense is that
> > they've lost their silly.
>
- their small fortunes, their tiny
- security, their college tuitions,
- their livelihoods. Yeah, just try
- smiling again! That'll fix everything!
All Under the Obama* Regime !
* Obama=Bush & Bush=Obama
.
RHF
> On Aug 10, 9:16 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> > > Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> > > inbreeding.
>
> > It's not really lying if you believe what you say is true. Republicans
> > live in a bubble of disinformation and voluntary ignorance. Not the same
> > as lying.
- "Voluntary" ignorance is the key.
- If it's voluntary, it's a lie.
BpnJ -tyvm- for "Volunteering"
this 'key' information ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
MNMikew
------------------------------
LOL!! Spoken like the liberal shill you are.
MNMikew
-----------------------------------------------------------
Lemmie guess, you thought we were headed to another ice age in the 70's too.
D. Peter Maus
::::remaining content stipulated::::
Algore IS irrelevant. My point being that the words were not
Roy's. They were, in fact, Algore's. We may take solace in the fact,
that one blind squirrel has found his nuts, today.
More to the point...The science is not settled. As evidenced by
the number of qualified physicists, meteorologists and
climatologists that have taken opposition. And while the science to
which you refer is, in fact, peer reviewed, in the scientific
community dissent against a concensus is an essential part of the
scientific process. Where there is no debate, there can be,
ultimately, no truth. Only politics. What's interesting, and what
many on The Other Side are so enraged about, is that the most vocal
about this matter refuse to debate it at all.
Gore, for instance, will not be on any program with any other
guest who may speak. He will have the questions put to him vetted
before he agrees to appear. He will not answer questions that do not
presuppose his position is correct and absolute. (I speak with some
first hand experience with this, as a producer of radio interview
programs while I was at CBS.) In fact, recently, in Chicago, he was
scheduled for a media tour, all the TV chat shows, all the radio
stations. The day he was in town, the scandal broke about the
e-mails from the University of East Anglia. All his appearances were
summarily cancelled, and he left town under cover, so as not to have
to face questions.
Gore is only, as you say, a politician. And not a very good one
at that. But he is hardly alone in this. Else, why have there been
no open debates on this issue. There is only assertion and denial of
opposition. But there are no questions answered, no evidence
challenged.
That's not science, Bruce. That's politics.
History has presented other examples, look at Lister, reviled for
his position that contagion may be spread doctor to patient through
contaminated hands. Virtually, the entire medical community,
scientists...chemists, physicians, surgeons, researchers...all
condemned Lister for his single voice against the concensus. And
yet, he was right. Proven so in the fullness of time.
After the First World War and through the Second, science
advocated eugenics as a true and viable scientific solution to man's
ills. Dissent was fiercely suppressed in some circles. Often with
execution a result. Now widely discredited on scientific grounds,
only a few holdouts still assert eugenics as a means to a societal
end. William Shockley was among them. In the fullness of time, and
debate, did the truth emerge through the politics.
And, as you correctly point out, that a true science must admit
it's incomplete understanding, as is the case in the Climate Change
debate, and answer the more intractable questions in order to
complete its understanding. In which case, dissent is also part of
the scientific process.
Taken in these lights, shooting the messenger, either messenger,
is reprehensible and immoral. Which puts the abject dismissal of
dissent in the same category as those who deny the concensus
themselves.
Put that another way, there must be debate for the truth to
ultimately emerge. To dismiss, condemn, or silence either side is to
deny the emergence of the truth through scientific processes.
The Man Made Climate Change advocates, including Gore (yes, a
politician,) have joined many sitting politicians in state and
federal legislative bodies in calling for the silencing through
revocation of grant, through revocation of certification, through
termination of employment of anyone not supporting the Man Made
Climate Change agenda. Read Barbara Boxer's statements on the
subject. These individuals, as many of this body of advocacy, have
been guilty of the kind of ugly, unscientific politics you yourself
have here decried.
The truth will be known in the fullness of time. Silencing either
side, shooting either messenger will only support the emergent
politics. It will not support the emergent truth.
p
D. Peter Maus
Hardship is an experience. Silly is a state. They exist
independently of each other.
RHF
BpnJ must Drink a lot of that Al Gore fomented
Kool-Aid; naturally warmed by the sun :o)
~ RHF
.
MNMikew
RHF
- That's not science, Bruce. That's politics.
-imho-
That's Not Science, Bruce. That's Religion*
* The Cult of Global Warming who's Mantra is :
It's Settle Science : The Can Be No Debate !
Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-date-before-you-
.
RHF
> On Aug 10, 10:04 am, m II <C...@in.the.hat> wrote:
>
> > > Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
> > > inbreeding.
>
> > express yourself.
>
> > mike
>
> > signature.asc
> > < 1KViewDownload
>
Stay 'Curious' My Friend :o)
- what do we object to here?
Because I Can :o)
- The "Republicans are liars" thing,
- which is arguably true,
A Half-Truth is Not The Whole Truth
and Therefore Not The Truth At All [.]
.
- or the "inbreeding" thing,
- which is obviously a crude joke?
I would say that they {Republicans} suffer
from Conservative "inthinking" much as the
Democrats suffer from Liberal "inthinking".
-fair-and-balanced-
.
- I don't understand why the knee-jerk
- conservatives can make one disgraceful
- comment about liberals after another,
Cause It's All True
-well-may-be...-
.
- including veiled threats to kill them,
-but- Liberals look so nice in 'veils'
-imagine- Obama wearing a 'Hijab'
.
- and when a liberal does it he gets
- picked on by everyone?
Impossible ! -cause- Liberals Tell Us Time
and Time Again : That "They" Are The Majority !
-so- non-liberals must be in the minority
and thus can not be 'everyone' -iasf-
IT'S SETTLE SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE !
.
- The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut
- with a jackhammer.
- Bruce
Alas BpnJ, your logic is no johnnymaul.
.
.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't care about Al Gore. Al Gore is STILL irrelevant.
Nobody proposes to silence either messenger. Let he who has the
evidence present it. I have not see any new evidence to the contrary
in awhile - just the same old hackneyed arguments that keep getting
dredged up, plus flash-in-the-pan exclamation points like that one
about satellite data from a couple weeks ago. They are either already
accounted for or are being worked on. If the basic theory needs
adjustment, however big that may be, it gets done - no real scientist
wants to see it done wrong - that makes no sense. Meanwhile, the real
scientific community has been near consensus on this matter since
before Al Gore Jr. was even a known name. The fullness of time, as I
have explained before, is already largely passed and the big questions
have been essentially answered. I knew this already 35 years ago,
when only scietists were still questioning the details, rather than
every screwball who had a political opinion.
Stop making excuses for the bozos and the coropration for whom this is
an inconvenience. More important things than money are at stake.
Bruce Jensen
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Speak for yourself. There is no reason I can see to believe that this
is true for the general population. When life crushes you, it crushes
you.
Bruce Jensen
bpnjensen
> "D. Peter Maus" <dpeterm...@att.net> wrote in messagenews:j21ekq$lvj$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Except he draws examples that aren't relevant and ignores (again) the
history of inquiry on the topic. As have you.
bpnjensen
And you're just stupid.
bpnjensen
I said nothing about liberals here - you are putting words in my
mouth. Science is not liberal or conservative - it is only
objective. Liberals and conservatives used to know that (except when
the church told them not to - it's only when the prevailing power
structure is challenged that science is politicized, and even then,
the real scientists eschew the crap).
My logic is nearly perfect, and only falters when I do not have facts
- in which case I admit I do not have the facts. Logic is not built
on presuppositions or bad analogies, or even on opinions. Yours is
likely nonexistent, since facts appear to mean nothing to you.
Bruce Jensen
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are an idiot. Again. Your blathering that "science is religion"
does not make it so, and only undescores your complete
misunderstanding of what science and the scientific process is.
Religion is the belief in something without the tiniest shred of
evidence. It often equals poltiics, especially these days.
Science is quite the opposite - science is skepticism until
overwhelming evidence is in. Learn the difference. Or not - continue
to be an ignorant idiot, I don't care.
D. Peter Maus
Bruce,
"...More important things than money are at stake."
That is precisely the issue in contention.
>
D. Peter Maus
Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing
opposition is precisely what she proposed. And being an active
officer in the US Government, that raises some very serious 1st
Amendment issues. And yet, she has proposed some pretty significant
legislative motion to specifically silence those who don't sign on
to the agenda.
This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.
D. Peter Maus
And yet, there are those so crushed who still smile.
State of mind is choice. State of grace is a gift that may or may
not be actualized. But it is at the choice.
You know, when I was laying in the street, in '86, bleeding to
such an extent that the end of my leg was foaming, and the blood
running into the storm sewer, I had about 3 minutes to live. I still
didn't lose my sense of humor, dark as it was. And it helped me stay
calm until the ambulance arrived.
Humor is an essential part of life. No more important than during
tough times. It's essential to survival.
And those whom Life has crushed, are no less able to adopt the
Silly state of grace, than anyone else in the population.
And, often, they do.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
And some don't. You cannot paint with a broad brush.
D. Peter Maus
Nor did I. That's why I said 'and often,' and, 'and there are
those who,' Recognizing some do, some don't.
The important point being that it can be done, and is.
bpnjensen
OK, I give up. All I find are some comments about national security
and how the military needs to be prepared. Please provide a link.
Make sure there are contextual quotes please - not some Fox News
digestion.
Anyway, it is still irrelevant - and by the way, like I said, until
the oil companies got involved, none of those so-called "qualified
experts" came out of the woodwork and said it was a hoax. Many
scientists, both ostensibly liberal and conservative, were beginning
to reach consensus. It was the alarms at the oil companies that put
their shills on the payroll to say anything they could...and virtually
everything they have said has now been number crunched to death. We
don't need to hear the same tired crap over and over again endlessly
for a whole new audience of minions to get riled about. Honest
skeptics are still welcome in the scientific debate, and honest
opposing evidence is still taken very seriously.
After all this is done, I refuse to talk about anything else except
the honest science...because none of the rest of this gibberish
matters, and is a waste of time.
Bruce Jensen
D. Peter Maus
> On Aug 11, 3:05 pm, "D. Peter Maus"<dpeterm...@att.net> wrote:
>> On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:
>>
>>> Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.
>>
>> Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing
>> opposition is precisely what she proposed. And being an active
>> officer in the US Government, that raises some very serious 1st
>> Amendment issues. And yet, she has proposed some pretty significant
>> legislative motion to specifically silence those who don't sign on
>> to the agenda.
>>
>> This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.
>
> OK, I give up. All I find are some comments about national security
> and how the military needs to be prepared. Please provide a link.
> Make sure there are contextual quotes please - not some Fox News
> digestion.
>
> Anyway, it is still irrelevant - and by the way, like I said, until
> the oil companies got involved, none of those so-called "qualified
> experts" came out of the woodwork and said it was a hoax.
Well, that's a bit of a red herring. The oil companies have been
under fire since the days of John D. There's never been a time that
they've not been under fire. Simply gainsaying the oil companies are
to blame is scientifically disingenous.
In fact, the opposition experts came out before the oil companies
got involved in the debate.
I'm no fan of the oil companies. In fact, if you read the story
of the Ethyl Corporation, you'll see how bad a corporate citizen can
be. And Ethyl was co formed by DuPont (interesting irony there)
Standard Oil, and GM, because John D. wasn't willing to surrender
10% of the nations' gas tank to a non-petroleum product like
ethanol. (Ethanol was known as far back as the Model T to be an
effective antiknock additive>) It's incomprehensible that such a
company could exist from the 30's to the present. But they do.
But not everyone who speaks out on the issue of climate change is
an oil company shill.
Several have been volcanic geoligists. Some have been
meteorologists. Others have been academics and researchers who've
faced censure, and withdrawal of funding for their positions in an
attempt to intimidate opposition. Those funded by Big Oil would face
no such fears.
And that, though you are correct, there is more at stake than
money, that's what it comes down to.
Underscoring, again, that this issue is more about the politics
than science.
m II
It's been suggested that the fight over man made global climate change
isn't really about whether or not CO2 causes it. The fight, at least by
one side, is actually about continuing the present, increasing pollution
unabated.
Anywhere there is CO2, there are carcinogenic byproducts. The
industrialists seem to be trying to equate a cleaner environment with
raving lunatic communism. Controlling emissions cuts into the bottom
line. Win the CO2 fight and you win the pollution right.
CO2 is a very convenient way to make people forget about the toxic crap
that accompanies it. The toxic stuff kills people a lot faster. It's
best not to mention it.
Me? I believe all environmental degradation and pollution is due to
corrupt politicians.
mike
dave
> On Aug 10, 9:16 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>>> Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
>>> inbreeding.
>>
>> live in a bubble of disinformation and voluntary ignorance. Not the same
>> as lying.
>
OK
dave
A lie doesn't "balance" a fact. There are not 2 sides to everything.
Joe from Kokomo
> The truth will be known in the fullness of time. Silencing either side,
> shooting either messenger will only support the emergent politics. It
> will not support the emergent truth.
Isn't "the truth" already known?
FACT (truth): Carbon dioxide IS a greenhouse gas.
FACT (truth): We ARE putting greater and greater amounts of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere, especially with India and China coming on
line with millions more cars and an insatiable demand for more and more
electricity.
Could someone out there in Net Land please explain why all this extra
carbon dioxide (remember, a greenhouse gas) won't have an effect on the
climate?
J R
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
> NUTS!
> cuhulin
It is amazing , to say the least ! And he was so quiet and robot-like
while being as a Vice President ... What a liar he turned out to be...
dave
Soot. We need to make sure they use sooty coal so that we can block the
sunbeams with particulates. Clean air is the enemy.
dave
Another moron from inside the Bubble. Al Gore is a fine, articulate
gentleman. For this reason the mainstream press is relentless in their
attempts to besmirch him. The Fascistas at Koch Industries and
ExxonMobil just can't stand to see a fellow oil man who isn't a massive
pig like they are.
RHF
BpnJ - NO VALID EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED
BY THE GLOBAL WARMING CULTISTS* -except-
DOCTORED [FRAUDULENT] "CLIMATE-GATE"© DATA
* The Cult of Global Warming who's Mantra is :
It's Settle Science : The Can Be No Debate !
* * Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-data-before-you-
.
Al Gore's Rage-&-Rant : Global Warming Done
Gone To His Head !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/614e8b55ca351f59
BpnJ - You have elevated yourself from common
rank-and-file of the 'Global Warming Cult' to
the Priestly rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/politics/stories/al-gore-rant-why-the-climate-debate-is-heating-up
.
RHF
> On 08/11/2011 03:05 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
>
> > On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:
> >> Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.
>
> > Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing opposition
> > is precisely what she proposed. And being an active officer in the US
> > Government, that raises some very serious 1st Amendment issues. And yet,
> > she has proposed some pretty significant legislative motion to
> > specifically silence those who don't sign on to the agenda.
>
- - debate and process.
- A lie doesn't "balance" a fact.
Dave - THE ONLY "LIE" THAT HAS BENN PRESENTED
WAS BY THE GLOBAL WARMING CULTISTS* -wrt-
DOCTORED [FRAUDULENT] "CLIMATE-GATE"© DATA
* The Cult of Global Warming who's Mantra is :
It's Settle Science : The Can Be No Debate !
* * Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-data-before-you-
.
Al Gore's Rage-&-Rant : Global Warming Done
Gone To His Head !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/614e8b55ca351f59
Dave - You have elevated yourself from common
rank-and-file of the 'Global Warming Cult' to
the Priestly rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/politics/stories/al-gore-rant-why-the-climate-debate-is-heating-up
.
Oops ! Climate-Gate Really Did Happen :
Yet Another Inconvenient Truth !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/dcf3800097470e85
.
LET'S ALL CHANT THE CLIMATE-GATE© MANTRA :
IT'S SETTLED SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE [.]
-wrt- Another Absurd Climate Gate© Moment !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a84493147109bb61
.
- There are not 2 sides to everything.
Dave That Is Simply 1DT ! : One Dimensional Thinking
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/One-dimensional_thinking
.
.
RHF
BpnJ - NO HONEST SCIENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED
BY THE GLOBAL WARMING CULTISTS* -except-
DOCTORED [FRAUDULENT] "CLIMATE-GATE"© DATA
* The Cult of Global Warming who's Mantra is :
It's Settle Science : The Can Be No Debate !
* * Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-data-before-you-
.
Al Gore's Rage-&-Rant : Global Warming Done
Gone To His Head !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/614e8b55ca351f59
BpnJ - You have elevated yourself from common
rank-and-file of the 'Global Warming Cult' to
the Priestly rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/politics/stories/al-gore-rant-why-the-climate-debate-is-heating-up
.
Oops ! Climate-Gate Did Happen Yet Another
Inconvenient Truth !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/dcf3800097470e85
.
LET'S ALL CHANT THE CLIMATE-GATE© MANTRA :
IT'S SETTLED SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE [.]
RHF
FACT {REALITY} China [PRC] Produces More CO2 and
all Greenhouse Gases then the USA a/o EU in 2010
-and- India is 10~15 Years behind China in doing
the same.
-china-gets-a-free-ride-&-the-usa-pays-
-india-gets-a-free-ride-&-the-usa-pays-
-3rd-world-gets-a-free-ride-&-the-usa-pays-
FACT {REALITY} China [PRC] and India are Exempt
from the Global Warming CO2 and Greenhouse Gases
Carbon Credit Wealth Transfer Scheme.
-basically-the-usa-pays-most-of-the-taxes/costs-
FACT {REALITY} The Carbon Credit Scheme based
on Global Warming and Using CO2 and Greenhouse
Gases -is- Simply a Wealth Transfer Scheme :
Taxing the USA And Sending The Money All Other
Nations. -that's-a-tax-rip-off-
As I have wrote before make the trasnsform the
World-Wide Carbon Credit Wealth Transfer Scheme
-into- A Reinvesting/Rebuilding the USA Scheme :
American Energy Taxes Recycled in the USA and
Building a Better America for All Americans
-then- I Could Be For That :o) ~ RHF
.
Say "NO" To A Global Carbon Credit Exchange
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/470ed6750b77c06d
-and- Say "YES" to an American 1st CO2 Enrichment Tax
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/622802f8e38826dd
.
JUST SAY "NO" TO THE GLOBAL WARMING 'CO2'
CARBON CREDIT WEALTH TRANSFER SCHEME !
.
.
J R
http://www.rense.com
Last Winter set some Records as far as Cold Weather and Snow was
concerned.Nineteen Degrees below Zero in backwater hick Corinth,Missy
Sippy in 1966.When was the last time you saw the Temperature drop to
Nineteen Degrees below Zero in your State?
cuhulin
RHF
- - Kool-Aid; naturally warmed by the sun :o)
- - ~ RHF
- And you're just stupid.
BpnJ and Your Reply Proves My Point ~ RHF
THE ONLY "STUPID" THAT HAS BENN PRESENTED
WAS BY THE GLOBAL WARMING CULTISTS* -wrt-
DOCTORED [FRAUDULENT] "CLIMATE-GATE"© DATA
Thus We May Conclude That : Global Warming Cultist
Still Maintain Their Faith Despite Climate-Gate© !
While In-Fact even the Obama-Regime has moved
on to re-branding 'Global Warming' to "Climate
Change" and distancing themselves from Al Gore.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy
* The Cult of Global Warming who's Mantra is :
It's Settle Science : The Can Be No Debate !
* * Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-data-before-you-
.
Al Gore's Rage-&-Rant : Global Warming Done
Gone To His Head !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/614e8b55ca351f59
Dave - You have elevated yourself from common
rank-and-file of the 'Global Warming Cult' to
the Priestly rank of 'Full of Hot Air' ! ::-}}
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/politics/stories/al-gore-rant-why-the-climate-debate-is-heating-up
.
Oops ! Climate-Gate Really Did Happen :
RHF
Yet another example of Democrats suffering
from Liberal "inthinking" !
.
MNMikew
"D. Peter Maus" <dpete...@att.net> wrote in message
news:j21jng$m3q$2...@dont-email.me...
Obama.
RHF
- Your blathering that "science is religion"
- does not make it so, and only undescores
- your complete misunderstanding of what science
- and the scientific process is.
-
- Religion is the belief in something without
- the tiniest shred of evidence. It often
- equals poltiics, especially these days.
-
- Science is quite the opposite - science
- is skepticism until overwhelming evidence
- is in. Learn the difference.
- Or not - continue to be an ignorant idiot,
- I don't care.
Alas to some/many Science *IS* "Their" Religion :
Especially Those Who Profess Atheism and Speak
a/o Write with Great Disdain for Persons of Faith
{Believers in a God/Deity}
'Science Believers' = Faith in Science
-both-sort-of-sound-like-
'God Believers' = Faith in God
-again- BpnJ -is- Science ? Your Religion !
It's Settled Science : There Can Be No Debate !
Praise Be Darwin The Lord of All Evolution
-thou-shalt-have-no-other-theories-before-you-
Praise Be Al Gore Lord of Carbon Credits !
-thou-shalt-not-have-any-other-data-before-you-
?GOD! For I Have Faith and I Believe - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
Oops ! Climate-Gate Really Did Happen :
Yet Another Inconvenient Truth !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/dcf3800097470e85
.
LET'S ALL CHANT THE CLIMATE-GATE© MANTRA :
IT'S SETTLED SCIENCE : THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE [.]
-wrt- Another Absurd Climate Gate© Moment !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a84493147109bb61
.
.
Bpnj -wrt- You are an idiot
Bpnj -wrt- Your blathering
Bpnj -wrt- your complete misunderstanding
Bpnj -wrt- continue to be an ignorant idiot
.
- - - = = = RHF's Canned Reply 'Rant' = = = - - -
[>: To Liberal-Fascist {Democrat} Name Calling :<]
ROTFL - You Know When You Are Winning An Argument :
When An Ever So Super-Smart "Enlightened" Liberal
Democrat Socialist Starts Fascist Name Calling*.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/318979fbe8546cfa
* They Lose Their Ability To Think And Get Emotional
+ Plus They Often Snip/Delete What You Wrote :
To Disguise Their Complete Inability To Carry The
Argument Forward. -that-is-how-i-see-it- ~ RHF©
.
-ps- BpnJ you are fast becoming the RRS Post-Boy
for Liberal Venom Spewing
-think-about-that...-is-that-who-you-want-to-be-?-
.
.
MNMikew
"dave" <da...@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:4e4519b2$0$12496$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
LOL!! Perhaps you might want to look up the size of Gores carbon footprint.
J R
photo of that MOFO when he was a little kid in a hotel in D.C.He looked
exactly like a spoiled rotten brat.Even Tennessee didn't vote for that
MOFO!
cuhulin
dave
> On Aug 11, 6:34 pm, Joe from Kokomo <j...@indy.net> wrote:
>
> FACT {REALITY} China [PRC] Produces More CO2 and
> all Greenhouse Gases then the USA a/o EU in 2010
> -and- India is 10~15 Years behind China in doing
> the same.
China is building our stuff. This gray dust is from someone burning coal
upwind from me.
dave
>
.
>>
>> Another moron from inside the Bubble. Al Gore is a fine, articulate
>> gentleman. For this reason the mainstream press is relentless in their
>> attempts to besmirch him. The Fascistas at Koch Industries and ExxonMobil
>> just can't stand to see a fellow oil man who isn't a massive pig like they
>> are.
>
> LOL!! Perhaps you might want to look up the size of Gores carbon footprint.
>
He offsets his carbon output with credits, traded on the open market, in
pure capitalist fashion. Carbon taxes are an established procedure for
influencing energy use and planning. I don't condone ethanol subsidies
unless you're talking about whiskey.
arthr...@webtv.net
Al Gore: is not fine,not articulate and certainly NOT a gentleman .
Oh, may I ask since when is Exxon-Mobil is in the pig farming
industry??
arthr...@webtv.net
> FAT Al Gore's BullS..t Rant - Videohttp://www.rense.com
>
> Last Winter set some Records as far as Cold Weather and Snow was
> concerned.Nineteen Degrees below Zero in backwater hick Corinth,Missy
> Sippy in 1966.When was the last time you saw the Temperature drop to
> Nineteen Degrees below Zero in your State?
> cuhulin
I got it! Al Gore was a Polar Bear in his past life. This time he has
a human incarnation !
J R
cuhulin
RHF
Tax That Should Not Exist and a Credit For
Something That Does Not Exist is a SCAM !
American Taxes For America ! ~ RHF
-just-say-'no'-to-global-wealth-transfer-
.
dave
> That 'grey stuff' is Fukishima Radioactive stuff.
> cuhulin
I'm pretty sure it's dirty coal
dave
Al Gore is one of the few normal people in politics. Why don't you give
him a break? Why do you pile on him like Limbeckitty?
dave
J R
Clean Coal, or so they say.
And there is at least one other Coal Plant/Coal Mine in Missy Sippy too.
Actually, Coal is Radioactive.
http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?q=Radioactive+Coal
cuhulin
dave
If it makes charcoal colored dust bunnies 8,000 miles away, there's
nothing "clean" about it. Breathe through your nose.
Brenda Ann
fine sand from the Gobi desert and winds aloft carry it all across China,
Korea, Japan and parts of Siberia and even sometimes to the west coast of
the US. Nasty stuff, that.. even the military won't let the troops work when
it's at its worst.
dave
That's what's upwind from me, usually. They disabled all the particle
detectors after the Fukushima meltdowns.
RHF
> J R wrote:
> >http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?q=New+Kemper+County+Mississippi+C...
>
> > Clean Coal, or so they say.
>
> > And there is at least one other Coal Plant/Coal Mine in Missy Sippy too.
> > Actually, Coal is Radioactive.
> >http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?q=Radioactive+Coal
> > cuhulin
- If it makes charcoal colored dust bunnies
- 8,000 miles away, there's nothing "clean"
- about it.
- Breathe through your nose.
.
-wrt- New 'Clean Coal' is much better than
Old Dirty Nasty Coal : Now the BTUs produced
by New 'Clean Coal' Electric Power Plants is
now lower than the corresponding number of
Cars/Trucks measured from the 1970s to 2000s
-iirc- ~ RHF
.
.