Re: Ground Wire Length?
Burr
"garthpdm" <gart...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a11e724-f16b-4553...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
>
> Garth
Hi Garth,
As long as you use a nice grd wire like 14, 16, 18 or even 20 it will be
OK.
Be sure that the rod is getting a good grd like a wet spot in your yard
and like 6,8 or 10 ft' long, deeper the better.
Burr
dxAce
garthpdm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
Just keep it as short as you can. Here, my ground wires from the matching
transformers are 9' long, into 8' ground rods.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
dave
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
>
There is no requirement to to ground the BalUn (UnUn) directly. The
antenna lead (coaxial cable outer conductor) must be grounded at the
point where it enters the building. That is where the main ground
should be.
msg
In cases of high ambient noise, such as at my QTH, the following approach
taken from "Broadband Receiving Antenna Matching, Mark Connelly, WA1ION
– 15 July, 2003" has worked for me; at this time I do NOT ground the feedline
coax at any point, instead it is buried in plastic conduit at a depth of
3 feet for a distance of thirty feet (from the shack to the antenna mast),
and the balun's ground wire is only six feet in length (the balun is
in a waterproof box at the feed end of the longwire, which is configured
'Marconi'-style with a short sloped section to the mast insulator.
I use a quadrifilar winding as described here:
> 30.5 m (100 ft.) end-fed horizontal longwire, about 1.5 m off ground
> Preferred broadband match = 9:1 transformer
> This is the “plain vanilla” antenna used by many DXers. It will work connected straight to a
> receiver’s input, but quite a bit more signal can be squeezed out of it if it is matched correctly. In
> a narrowband sense, you’d use L-C tuning. For efficient broadband coupling, a 9:1 transformer
> does best. In this case we’re talking about an FT114-J with a 7 turn trifilar winding, rather than
> the mediocre Mini-Circuits T9-1. Lead 1A goes to the antenna, 1B and 2A are joined, 50-ohm
> output is at joined 2B and 3A leads, and common ground goes to 3B. If “station” and “field”
> grounds are to be separated for noise reduction, you’ll need a quadrifilar winding with the fourth
> winding feeding the coaxial line. There would be no connection at the 2B/3A junction and lead
> 3B would go to the field-site ground rod system. Opposite side windings (e.g. FT114-J: 21 turns
> / 7 turns or FT140-43: 33 turns / 11 turns) could also work, but sensitivity above 5 MHz may
> suffer. A binocular core approach would be a 9-turn antenna winding and a 3-turn winding to
> feed the coaxial cable.
Michael
dave
> dave wrote:
>
>> garthpdm wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
>>> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
>>>
>>> Garth
>>
>>
>> There is no requirement to to ground the BalUn (UnUn) directly. The
>> antenna lead (coaxial cable outer conductor) must be grounded at the
>> point where it enters the building. That is where the main ground
>> should be.
>
> In cases of high ambient noise, such as at my QTH, the following approach
> taken from "Broadband Receiving Antenna Matching, Mark Connelly, WA1ION
> – 15 July, 2003" has worked for me; at this time I do NOT ground the
> feedline
> coax at any point,
That violates the NEC.
msg
The radio shack is a separate structure, unconnected with a residence.
I also have spark-gab protection on the feedline, but it is not directly
grounded due to noise issues. Later this year I plan on trying other
grounding schemes to mitigate noise further.
Michael
Telamon
<0a11e724-f16b-4553...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
garthpdm <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
RF grounds need to be as short as possible. Arrange the wire antenna so
it ends on top of a ground rod for the best RF ground. This is easily
done with a sloper, inverted L, or Beverage antenna. Other then that
optimal situation no more than a few feet long.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
dave <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
You violate common sense every day.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Burr
Burr
You can also carry away EMF by wrapping gnd around your wire NOT on the bare
wire, just close as a bleed.
Burr
Telamon
"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
This is wrong. You do not want the AC power supply return to be your RF
ground. There is a lot noise on the power ground. You want a ground
under the antenna ideally and one that is not used for any other purpose.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
msg
Indeed, that is the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.
Michael
Telamon
msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:
Sorry about that. Looks like someone cut your comments out of the thread.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
dave
Who said anything about AC power? I'm assuming we're using batteries;
so what? Code specifies that the lead be grounded where it enters the
building. If you're getting noise from your grounds they aren't very
good grounds.
cuh...@webtv.net
girlfriend's butt.
cuhulin
RHF
> "dave" <noth...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:13tq92h...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > garthpdm wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> >> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
>
> >> Garth
>
> > There is no requirement to to ground the BalUn (UnUn) directly. The
> > antenna lead (coaxial cable outer conductor) must be grounded at the point
> > where it enters the building. That is where the main ground should be.
- You can also carry away EMF by wrapping gnd around
- your wire NOT on the bare wire, just close as a bleed.
-
- Burr
OK So you have a Noisy AC Mains Ground; and that's all
the Ground you got.
Situation : You are stuck with only using the AC Mains Ground
in your Seventh Story Apartment / Condo : It is 84+ Feet down
to the Earth {Ground} and You Cna't Get There. - Bummer ! ;-{
1 - Use the Cold Water Pipe or AC Mains Ground as your
Radio/Shack's Grounding-Point.
-ps- Try them Both and also try the Outside Looking "Metal"
Window Frames of your Apartment / Condo many times they
are a better Grounding Point then either the Cold Water Pipe
or AC Mains Ground {There is a Reason and a Rational for
that : Anyone know both ?}
=BUT= I Got Noise coming into my Radio / Receiver from
my Grounding Point.- Bummer Again ! ;-{
First try One or more Snap-On Ferrite Beads in your
Ground Wire run from the Grounding-Point to your Radios
and Equipment.
http://linearparts.com/images/FCL-2-420x315.jpg
http://www.intermark-usa.com/products/EMC/Ferrite/images/TFCK_shohin2.jpg
2 - Alternattive to Snap-On Ferrite Beads is a Donut Magnet.
http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/ProductImages/sk1979.jpg
Route the Ground Wire through the Donut Hole several
times and space the Winding out around the outer-edge
of the Donut Magnet; usually 5~6 Wraps will do.
http://www.amalgamate2000.com/radio-hobbies/radio/image8.gif
http://www.regionalmfg.com/components/toroid-inductor-5.jpg
3 - OK -but- I ain't got no Snap-On Ferrite Beads; then a
12" piece of ReBar {Solid Iron Object} with the Ground Wire
wrapped around the ReBar every 1/2"~1" {10~20 Turns}
may help to kill the Noise heard on your Radios coming f
rom the GroundingPoint. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar
http://www.sanantoniohams.org/images/AlphalphaRepeaterGroup/1st_Rapp.jpg
yes i b well grounded ~ RHF
-ps- my ground wire is connected to the top
section of the water well casing pipe ~34 feet
.
RHF
- Hi,
-
- I am wondering what limitations are on the length
- of the ground wire lead from the transformer/balun
- to the ground rod?
- Thanks,
- Garth
-
Garth,
Start Here and Read - Grounding in RF Environments
-by- William D. Chesney [N8SA]
http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding.html
* Surge (or Safety) Grounding.{Lightning}
* RF Grounding {Noise}
* Summary
* Tip use Coax Cable as a Ground Wire
CopyRight 2000 - 2007 N4UJW HamUniverse.Com
Next GoTo and Read - Good Ground = Great Signals
-hosted-by- Hard-Core DX .Com
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/ground/index.html
* Ground Zero for your Receiver
* Grounding is Key to Good Reception
* Effective Ground System Step-by-Step
* Great Ground with Kitty Litter
* Better Ground with Conductive Cement
Read - There are Grounds and then there are Grounds. . .
Being Well Grounded !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/619d6205cc5958d9
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/195ac24f5ce252ac
Read - Grounds & Grounding
Five Topics for your Consideration
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bb59ed4e60ef8b64
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e5810dbd34351ef9
Read - Ground Wire Question - What's On Your List When Designing and
Installing Your Radio Shack's Ground System ? [Was : ground wire
question]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/6ba109bd6cd0ead1
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/9d6bb8bfa64e9b91
hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
Burr
"RHF"
yes i b well grounded ~ RHF
-ps- my ground wire is connected to the top
section of the water well casing pipe ~34 feet
.
Great ground Roy BUT, you have "PLASTIC" pipe!!!
Smile.
I wonder how many people have tried that!
Nice advice Roy I didn't think about someone in an apartment.
Burr
RHF
Burr - No we still get our daily dose of Iron
from our old Iron Pipes. ~ RHF
.
Telamon
<32e8eb9e-3ad4-41d7...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 4:39 pm, "Burr" <pitzra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > "dave" <noth...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:13tq92h...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > > garthpdm wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> >
> > >> I am wondering what limitations are on the length of the ground wire
> > >> lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
> >
> > >> Garth
> >
> > > There is no requirement to to ground the BalUn (UnUn) directly. The
> > > antenna lead (coaxial cable outer conductor) must be grounded at the point
> > > where it enters the building. That is where the main ground should be.
> -
> - You can also carry away EMF by wrapping gnd around
> - your wire NOT on the bare wire, just close as a bleed.
> -
> - Burr
>
> OK So you have a Noisy AC Mains Ground; and that's all
> the Ground you got.
< SNIP >
You will never learn.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
RHF's problem is he try's to think but nothing happens.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
<d42a10bb-00b1-4d9d...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 2:16 am, garthpdm <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - Hi,
> -
> - I am wondering what limitations are on the length
> - of the ground wire lead from the transformer/balun
> - to the ground rod?
> - Thanks,
> - Garth
> -
>
> Garth,
>
> Start Here and Read - Grounding in RF Environments
< SNIP >
Yes retard we all know how to do a google search.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
m II
> In article <13ts94i...@corp.supernews.com>,
> RHF's problem is he try's to think but nothing happens.
The use of English on this newsgroup makes me want to crie.
mike, the intransitive verbster
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <d42a10bb-00b1-4d9d-921f-a2aa50480...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > On Mar 16, 2:16 am, garthpdm <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > - Hi,
> > -
> > - I am wondering what limitations are on the length
> > - of the ground wire lead from the transformer/balun
> > - to the ground rod?
> > - Thanks,
> > - Garth
> > -
>
> > Garth,
>
-
- < SNIP >
-
- Yes retard we all know how to do a google search.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
Telamon,
Here is a Google Search for : "Ground Wire Length"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ground+Wire+Length
You will NOT find any Link/URL to :
http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding.html
For : Grounding in RF Environments
-by- William D. Chesney [N8SA]
http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding.html
* Surge (or Safety) Grounding.{Lightning}
* RF Grounding {Noise}
* Summary
* Tip use Coax Cable as a Ground Wire
CopyRight 2000 - 2007 N4UJW HamUniverse.Com
In the Top 100 referred Links / URLs
[ Checked and Verified ] 3/17/2008 @ 03:15 UTC
Telamon - This is another case of your so called 'expertise'
[TECH-NO-SUPER-EGO] causing you to "OMIF"
{Open-Mouth-Insert-Foot}.
now kindly go bact to 'alt.idiot' et al
and practice your "shtik" ~ RHF
.
Telamon
<ed493dd9-ca18-43fa...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 6:24 pm, Telamon
> <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <d42a10bb-00b1-4d9d-921f-a2aa50480...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > On Mar 16, 2:16 am, garthpdm <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > - Hi,
> > > -
> > > - I am wondering what limitations are on the length
> > > - of the ground wire lead from the transformer/balun
> > > - to the ground rod?
> > > - Thanks,
> > > - Garth
> > > -
> >
> > > Garth,
> >
> - - Start Here and Read - Grounding in RF Environments
> -
> - < SNIP >
> -
> - Yes retard we all know how to do a google search.
> -
>
> Telamon,
>
> Here is a Google Search for : "Ground Wire Length"
< SNIP >
Yes retard, we all know how to do this.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <ed493dd9-ca18-43fa-9828-dfdbb67fe...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > On Mar 17, 6:24 pm, Telamon
> > <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <d42a10bb-00b1-4d9d-921f-a2aa50480...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > > On Mar 16, 2:16 am, garthpdm <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > - Hi,
> > > > -
> > > > - I am wondering what limitations are on the length
> > > > - of the ground wire lead from the transformer/balun
> > > > - to the ground rod?
> > > > - Thanks,
> > > > - Garth
> > > > -
>
> > > > Garth,
>
> > - - Start Here and Read - Grounding in RF Environments
> > -
> > - < SNIP >
> > -
> > - Yes retard we all know how to do a google search.
> > -
>
> > Telamon,
>
> > Here is a Google Search for : "Ground Wire Length"
- < SNIP >
* * * Un-Snip * * *
- - Telamon
- - This is another case of your so called 'expertise'
- - [TECH-NO-SUPER-EGO] causing you to "OMIF"
- - {Open-Mouth-Insert-Foot}.
- Yes retard, we all know how to do this.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
Hello Readers : Sorry I did not put a "PONG" at the start
of the Subject-Line so that you all could know that this
Thread had Morphed into another Telamon-v-RHF Game
of Newsgroup Ping-Pong {Trill-&-Troll}.
YES : IT'S-A-PONG !
Telamon -wrt- Open-Mouth-Insert-Foot (OMIF)
Actually - No I don't -but- Let me watch you a few times
more; and I am sure that I could mimic you to the music.
teli - now kindly go bact to 'alt.idiot' etc etc
and practice your "shtik" ~ RHF
-wrt- "Followup-To: alt.idiots, alt.local.village.idiot,
alt.stupid.idiots"
.
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Followup-To: alt.idiots, alt.local.village.idiot, alt.stupid.idiots
From: Telamon <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:09:40 -0700
Local: Tues, Mar 18 2008 12:09 am
Subject: Re: Ground Wire Length?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/91c761a51e31d72e
.
dxAce
m II wrote:
> Telamon wrote:
>
> > In article <13ts94i...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > RHF's problem is he try's to think but nothing happens.
>
> The use of English on this newsgroup makes me want to crie.
Typical Canuck crybaby.
Mark Zenier
garthpdm <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>lead from the transformer/balun to the ground rod? Thanks,
It may do undesirable things, like add directivity.
I was messing around and found that putting my 9:1 transformer at various
lengths along the antenna away from the ground rod, I was able to cancel
out the neighbor's light dimmers, but only on one band at a time. That
meant that it was also nulling any radio stations in that direction,
too.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
m II
SUPCOMUCOMM (Supreme Commander,
United Counties of Michigan Militia)
Michigan
USA
during his fifth annual Farewell Forever tour, said:
> Typical Canuck crybaby.
Trust you to completely miss the humour and irony in that posting. Did
you join the US military in order to avoid high school?
mike
================================
From: - Sat Feb 16 00:52:22 2008
I really don't want to say this, my many shortwave friends, but
I find that I am giving up far to much of my increasingly valuable
time here on RRS trying to educate the faux, the debutantes, and
those who tote..
Therefore, I've simply decided to give up RRS.
Goodbye, I sincerely hope that you all find your niche in the
world of SW.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
========================================
dxAce
I'm a crybaby II wrote:
> dxAcehole, pathological liar, racist and common drunk,
> SUPCOMUCOMM (Supreme Commander,
> United Counties of Michigan Militia)
> Michigan
> USA
>
> during his fifth annual Farewell Forever tour, said:
>
> > Typical Canuck crybaby.
>
> Trust you to completely miss the humour and irony in that posting.
Well, you always miss it in my postings, dumbass Canuck!
> Did
> you join the US military in order to avoid high school?
No, I'd already graduated, you dumbass Canuck.
Burr
"dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
news:47DFFECC...@milestones.com...
>
> No, I'd already graduated, you dumbass Canuck.
>
>
Last year!!!!
Sorry Steve, you asked for that one!!!~
Burr
Burr
"Mark Zenier" <mze...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:froicv$kph$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com...
Yes, very right!
Burr
Telamon
<f28bfe95-8210-4972...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Mar 18, 12:09 am, Telamon
> <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <ed493dd9-ca18-43fa-9828-dfdbb67fe...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> >
< SNIP >
How is the news group retard doing today?
Look like you have been busy spamming the news group again.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California