Grounding Rod
Alan J Giddings
Can anyone offer me a little advice on the grouding of my SW
receivers? I have a couple old Soviet SW radios, a Sony SW77, Sangean
ATS909 and a new Degen 1102. I want to make a ground that will work
well with any of these receivers. What material is best? Copper,
Iron, Steel etc? A rod or plate? What is the best type of cable to
use as a lead-in to the receiver? Is there an ideal length?
Depending on where the radio will be the lenght could be anything from
5ft to 30ft. Any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Alan
Gregg
--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca
starman
First, you need to understand the difference between a ground for
protecting against power surges or lightning and a ground intended for
lowering the noise level at the receiver. The first kind is easy to do.
You just run a fairly heavy wire (#12) from the receiver chassis to the
nearest earth ground, which can be a cold water pipe (if it's all metal
plumbing) or a ground rod outside the house. Also use a surge protector
for the receiver's power supply. Ground the protector to the same earth
ground for the receiver.
The second kind of ground is called an RF ground. This helps to reduce
noise on the antenna system from sources in your house like televisions,
computers and other applicances. This is harder to do well. I suggest
you look at the following website for more information on building a low
noise antenna system. Good luck.
http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/antennas/low-noise_antenna.html
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Ron Hardin
grid produces all sorts of voltages between different grounds,
and any difference flows through your radio if you ground it without
some theoretical care. Not to mention what happens in a thunderstorm.
Your cold water pipes (if metal) are common to the house ground and
so least threatening but it's still tempting fate. All the radio needs
is a counterpoise to its whip; the wall wart supplies that already,
capacitively.
If you have a multimeter, measure the AC (not DC) voltage between
two ground stakes driven in say twenty feet apart. Usually it's
about a half a volt. The earth is alive out there.
If you have an outdoor antenna and a coax feed, grounding begins to
make sense in noise reduction, to prevent noise from the house from
making it into the antenna as much as possible.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
RHF
Here is a Compilation of a few "Ground" Messages posted to the
Shortwave Listerner (SWL) Antennas and AM & FM Antennas eGroup
on YAHOO:
* The UN-Ground when your Receiver is NOT Ground Zero !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/471
* Ground Zero for your Receiver
= For the Earth of It, There Is a Ground !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/470
* Ground Confusion
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/445
* The "Grounding-Point" = Ground Rods and Ground Wires ETC.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/425
* GROUNDING = A Process of Alternatives
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/212
* An OutSide Ground for Better Safety and more . . .
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/206
* Indoor and Ouside Antenna Grounding
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/77
iane ~ RHF
.
All are WELCOME at the "Antenna Ashram"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/502
.
.
= = = alan...@yahoo.co.uk (Alan J Giddings)
= = = wrote in message news:<b20ddf9e.04011...@posting.google.com>...
Hello,
Thanks,
Alan
.
CW
"Ron Hardin" <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:400538...@mindspring.com...
> You're most likely to blow out the radio by grounding it.
Horseshit.
>All the radio needs
> is a counterpoise to its whip; the wall wart supplies that already,
> capacitively.
There is some truth to this.
>
> If you have a multimeter, measure the AC (not DC) voltage between
> two ground stakes driven in say twenty feet apart. Usually it's
> about a half a volt. The earth is alive out there.
That's why the NEC requires all grounds to be bonded togeter.
Mark Keith
> Alan J Giddings wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > Can anyone offer me a little advice on the grouding of my SW
> > receivers? I have a couple old Soviet SW radios, a Sony SW77, Sangean
> > ATS909 and a new Degen 1102. I want to make a ground that will work
> > well with any of these receivers. What material is best? Copper,
> > Iron, Steel etc? A rod or plate? What is the best type of cable to
> > use as a lead-in to the receiver? Is there an ideal length?
> > Depending on where the radio will be the lenght could be anything from
> > 5ft to 30ft. Any advice is much appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
>
Myself, I hardly think it's worth the trouble with most portables. If
you see an improvement, it will probably be in the LW/MW spectrum. On
the higher HF bands, there is little help in adding a ground unless
you have some kind of wierd antenna issue, or little antenna at all. I
bet you will notice little difference in most cases, unless your
antenna is small and lame. A ground is not required for quiet radio
reception. In fact, ground is a noise source. I use no outside
grounding at all to my shack. I have outside grounds, but they are a
lightning return. Most of my antennas are complete, and require no rf
ground to properly function. The only one I have that does, is a 160m
inverted L. It requires an rf ground at the base of the antenna to
provide the "lower half". All my others are dipoles, yagi's, etc, that
are complete antennas in themselves and require no extra rf ground.
This is the preferred route to go if possible.
>
> The second kind of ground is called an RF ground. This helps to reduce
> noise on the antenna system from sources in your house like televisions,
> computers and other applicances. This is harder to do well. I suggest
> you look at the following website for more information on building a low
> noise antenna system. Good luck.
Maybe semi-misleading...It's the improved decoupling of the feedline
from the antenna that reduces the noise level. "noise ingress" Not
the grounding itself, although the grounding helps in the decoupling
of the line. Ground is a noise source. An RF ground should be under an
antenna to provide it's "lower half" if it requires it. IE: 1/4 wave
vertical, etc.. So if you use a balanced antenna that requires no
"lower half", IE: 1/2 wave dipole, 1 wave loop, etc, you need no rf
ground at all. MK
>
> http://www.anarc.org/naswa/badx/antennas/low-noise_antenna.html
>
starman
>
> It's the improved decoupling of the feedline
> from the antenna that reduces the noise level. "noise ingress" Not
> the grounding itself, although the grounding helps in the decoupling
> of the line.
I think we're talking semantics here, but how else could you decouple
the feedline of an inverted-L antenna other than using an effective
(short) earth ground connection?
CW
RHF
Grounds & Grounding = Five Topics for your Consideration
FIRST - Check Your A/C Power Outlets with an A/C Outlet Analyzer
like the RadioShack # 22-141. This simple devise WARNS you of
Faulty Wiring in 3-Prong 110-125 VAC Outlets in your Household.
Detects and Indicates:
* Normal Wiring
* Bad Ground
* Open Neutral
* Reversed Hot/Neutral
* Reversed Hot/Ground
* Open Hot
Plus the newest version:
Tests for Correct Operation of Ground Fault Circuit Isolators.
NOTE: Remove this Analyzer from the packaging very carefully
SAVE: The Backing Card with the Printed Test Instructions
(These Instructions are Valuable)
IMHO: EVERY HOME OWNER SHOULD HAVE ONE OF THESE !
WHY: An external outside Earth Ground Rod with Ground Wire System
for your Radio Reception Equipment and and Antennas is Actually a
HAZARD if your Household Wiring is Bad.
TBL: SO CHECK YOUR HOUSEHOLD A/C ELECTRICAL OUTLETS FIRST [.]
NOTE: Often a Bad A/C Electrical Outlet is the Source of RFI.
SECOND - Making USE Of A GROUND When NO Other Ground Is Available.
WHY: Often this is necessary because there is not other ground
available; the Radio is being run on Batteries; a Wall Wart is
being used and the output is isolated/insulated from the A/C Ground.
This simply provides a basic External Ground Directly to the
Radio at a place designated on the Radio like a Ground Terminal
or SO-239 Jack.
WHAT: Buy a standard Heavy Duty (Appliance Type) Black Rubber
"Three Prong Plug" for use as the Ground Interface with your
Household Wiring and to create the 'external' Grounding Point.
CAUTION: Only connect the ROUND Ground (Green) Prong to a
16-18 AWG Stranded Green Colored Insulated Wire of 5-10 Feet
Length with a Slotted Terminal or Alligator Chip at the other end.
(Simply Do Not Use the two blade prongs.) Why use a Green Colored
Wire because "Green" represents Household Electrical Wiring Ground.
CONNECTION: Connect the Slotted Terminal or Alligator Clip to
the Ground Connection of the Radio like the Ground Terminal or
SO-239 Jack.
THIRD - Ground your Antenna(s) at the Antenna to Feed-in-Line
Junction (outside and the building) For Noise (RFI) Reduction
use Coax Cable as a Feed-in-Line from the Antenna to the Radio
and Equipment. This outside Ground Point becomes the "Primary"
Ground for your Antenna System.
FOURTH - For Your Personal Safety and to Protect your Radio Equipment:
* Disconnect the Antenna when the Radio is not in use and during
Electrical (T&L) Storms.
* Buy a SO-239 Connector and wire the center pin to the outer
threaded fastener. (Shorted) Connect this to your Shack's
Equipement Ground BUS if you bave one.
* When the Coax Cable is Disconnected from the Radio: Connect
the Coax Cable to the SO-239 Shorting Plug.
* When Disconnected, Keep the Coax Cable at least 18" away from
the Radio. Your Shack's Equipement Ground BUS should be at least
12"-18" away from all your equipment.
* Additionally during Electrical (T&L) Storms Un-Plug (Disconnect)
the Radios and Equipment from the A/C Wall Outlet(s).
FIFTH - HOW TO: Install the Ground ROD into the Ground:
(Eazy installation of Ground RODs)
* Dig a One to Two Foot Deep Hole 6"-9" Wide.
* Fill the Hole with Water and wait till it soaks into hole.
(If really dry, fill with more water and wait. Repeat this
process if necessary and waiting over a day and/or night is OK.)
* Now begin the Implantation of the ROD into the Ground.
* * First try simply Pushing the ROD into Ground for a few feet.
* * Use home made ROD Driver (A Two Feet piece of 1" Iron Pipe
with a Nipple on one end.) Slide it over the Top of the ROD
and use it to Tap the ROD into the Ground for a few more feet.
* * Finally use a Sledge Hammer or Heavy Object to Pound the
ROD into the Ground still using the Rod Driver over the ROD until
the Top of the ROD is level with the surounding Ground.
(Remove the ROD Driver and clean-up the surface of the ROD.)
* Attach the Ground Wires using a Heavy Duty Ground Wire Clamp
designed specifically to make this type of connection.
* Fill the Hole with a "50 / 50 Mixture" of original Soil (50%)
and the other (50%) made up of these parts of 1/2 "Bentonite"
(clay kitty litter); 1/3 Epson Salt; and 1/6 Copper Sulfate
works well 'in-the-ground' around ground rod. Water this down
and 'tamp-it-down' lightly over the next few days.
SIXTH - Your specific questions are answered in the body of your message.
iane ~ RHF
.
.
= = = alan...@yahoo.co.uk (Alan J Giddings)
= = = wrote in message news:<b20ddf9e.04011...@posting.google.com>...\
RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR RMR
Hello,
Can anyone offer me a little advice on the grounding of my SW
receivers? I have a couple old Soviet SW radios, a Sony SW77,
Sangean ATS-909 and a new Degen 1102. I want to make a ground
that will work well with any of these receivers.
Q - What material is best? Copper, Iron, Steel etc? A rod or plate?
=R= The most commonly used "Earthen Grounding Devise" is a
Eight Foot (8 Ft.) Copper Clad Steel Ground Rod.
Read "HOW TO: Install the Ground ROD into the Ground:" above.
Q - What is the best type of cable to use as a lead-in to the receiver?
=R= The most common type of connector from the Ground Rod to the
Radios and Equipment is Heavy Duty #8-#10 AWG Copper Wire this can
be Solid Bare Copper Wire or Seven Stranded Insulated Copper Wire.
Q - Is there an ideal length?
=R= The Shortest and most direct route as possible.
Depending on where the radio will be the lenght could be anything
from 5 Ft to 30 Ft.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Alan
.
I Am Glad You Asked ~ RHF
.
Rob Mills
"RHF" <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e5e13af8.04011...@posting.google.com.
..
>>> FIRST - Check Your A/C Power Outlets with an A/C Outlet Analyzer like
the RadioShack # 22-141. This simple devise WARNS you of Faulty Wiring in
3-Prong 110-125 VAC Outlets in your Household. <<<
Out of curiosity I just checked RS and they do still stock these ($5.95) but
about a year ago I purchased 4 of them on a close out for .99 ea.. Yes, they
are handy . I already had one but could never find it when I needed it,
don't have that problem now that I have 5.
Ya never know at the big red R, several months ago I purchased a 7.5 watt
amplified mobile speaker for just a few bucks on a close out (should have
bought more). They now have same speaker (same model number, same store)
back on the shelf for $27.95. RM~
w_tom
claim to detect earth ground. That obvious is one understands
what that $6 Radio Shack tester does. There is no simple
device to verify integrity of earth ground. And that Radio
Shack tester will only report a failed safety ground - not to
be confused with earth ground. That Radio Shack tester will
not report a good safety ground. It can only report a failed
safety ground. It, or a 3.5 digit multimeter, will detect
some safety ground problems.
This discussion is about earthing. Any wire that is 1/4
wavelength or longer is an antenna - not an earthing wire.
For 60 Hz AC electric, a long wire to earth may be an earth
ground. But this discussion is about radio frequencies and
noise. That distance to earth ground must be shorter. It is
just another reason why the incoming wire first makes a less
than 10 foot connection, either via surge protector or
hardwired, to the building's single point earth ground. As
was noted in earlier posts, using multiple (separate) grounds
can create problems both for humans and transistors. Problems
that the three light tester will never detect.
That three light tester is only a preliminary check. But
there really is no substitution for visual inspection.
Rob Mills wrote:
>
> "RHF" <rhf-...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:e5e13af8.04011...@posting.google.com.
> ..
>>>> FIRST - Check Your A/C Power Outlets with an A/C Outlet
>>>> Analyzer like the RadioShack # 22-141. This simple devise
>>>> WARNS you of Faulty Wiring in 3-Prong 110-125 VAC Outlets
>>>> in your Household.
>
> Out of curiosity I just checked RS and they do still stock these
> ($5.95) but about a year ago I purchased 4 of them on a close out
> for .99 ea.. Yes, they are handy . I already had one but could
> never find it when I needed it, don't have that problem now that
> I have 5.
> ...
CW
"w_tom" <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4009BF3B...@hotmail.com...
(bunches of useless horseshit)
starman
CW
"starman" <sta...@tech.net> wrote in message
news:4009F3F3...@tech.net...
Mark Keith
> Mark Keith wrote:
> >
> > It's the improved decoupling of the feedline
> > from the antenna that reduces the noise level. "noise ingress" Not
> > the grounding itself, although the grounding helps in the decoupling
> > of the line.
>
> I think we're talking semantics here, but how else could you decouple
> the feedline of an inverted-L antenna other than using an effective
> (short) earth ground connection?
As one mentioned, radials. Or you could use a choke,beads, etc. Lets
say you had a 1/4 wave ground plane that was elevated with a set of
radials. The radials will decouple the feedline pretty well. There is
no need to ground the radials, or the supporting mast, except as a
lightning concern. A choke will decouple the line fairly well. Noise
ingress has nothing to do with being grounded or not. It's an issue of
decoupling the feedline from the antenna. Using a ground connection
under an "L" will decouple it fairly well, but it's just one method
that can be used, and the "ground" is not a required element. It's not
just semantics, because an "rf ground" is not a requirement of good
decoupling. But saying that, I usually do ground the low end of inv
L's. MK
RHF
= = = wrote in message news:<EsSdnaMqOq9...@comcast.com>...
CW,
Shauuu ... You'l wake him up again.
Time to Check and Adjust my 'Inverted "CK" Antenna'
( AHaaa... Now I Am Safe :o)
Near Field Mode: "Tune-In-the-Truth"
(What Ever It May Be)
- - - A-n-D - - -
Far Field Mode: "Tune-Out-the-Absurd"
(I Don't Know What You Call It... But I Know It - When I Hear It !)
So Say I ~ RHF
The Inventor of the 'Inverted "CK" Antenna'
.
.
starman
I agree that the feedline of an elevated ground plane can be effectively
decoupled using radials but it's not clear to me how you would use
radials with the typical inverted-L. Where would you locate the radials
in that case?
RHF
At the Base Feed Point of the Inverted "L" Antenna two Radials
opposite each other set at 90 Degrees to the Horizontal Arm as
viewed from the Top. The Radials should be as long as the
Vertical Leg of the Inverted "L" Antenna.
* Inverted "L' Antenna Reading List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/374
* Inverted "L" Antenna for Transmitting by Dr. Ace
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/309
Typically: Quarter (1/4) Wave Length Long and 1/8th WL High
* Inverted "L" Antenna as an 'available space' SWL Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/54
Typically: For a SWL Receive ONLY Antenna of any Random Length
With the Horizontal Arm 'twice' (2X) as long as the Vertical Leg.
iane ~ RHF
.
.
= = = starman <sta...@tech.net>
= = = wrote in message news:<400B01C9...@tech.net>...
Mark Keith
>
> I agree that the feedline of an elevated ground plane can be effectively
> decoupled using radials but it's not clear to me how you would use
> radials with the typical inverted-L. Where would you locate the radials
> in that case?
>
>
On the ground. And in that case, I almost always do ground the radials
to earth at the feedpoint. Radials on the ground are detuned, and are
not required to be cut to any certain length. So they are not really
resonant at any given freq like elevated radials, or if they are, it's
likely not where you would expect. They normally need to be resonant
to decouple the feedline, so it's best to also ground them if they are
on the ground and detuned. If you had an elevated GP with 1/4 wave
radials for a certain freq, they will not work at say twice that freq.
"1/2 waves" They would show a high impedance, and the radial system
would not function properly, and the decoupling would be poor. But 3/4
wave radials can work ok, as they show a low Z. The best ground
planes, verticals , etc use twin decoupling sections. IE: a 1/4 wave
ground plane with a set of 1/4 wave radials, would have a second set
of 1/4 wave radials, 1/4 wave below the main set. Or if a sleeve
vertical, two sets of cones, tubes, etc. You can also use chokes,
ferrite beads as extra decoupling with any coax system. I'm not
against grounding in some cases. I just wanted to clarify that it's
really the improved decoupling, rather than the addition of ground per
say, that reduces the noise ingress. Grounding is just one method used
to improve decoupling of the line in some cases. Usually with radials
on the ground, or when using no radials at all. If the antenna is
already balanced and properly decoupled, adding an "rf ground" will
not do a thing as far as noise ingress. Might even make things worse
being ground is usually a noise source. MK
starman
Why would someone build such a radial system for an inverted-L when the
'Doty-L' achieves the same or better results with a simple earth ground?
CW
receiving application, you are not likely to notice but try transmitting
with an inverted L. The ground system is much more important and the radial
system is far superior.
"starman" <sta...@tech.net> wrote in message
news:400E23DE...@tech.net...