I used the rest of my 500 feet roll of 14g stranded
dave
the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.
The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet re: noise from the neighbors. It also
fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery chargers.
I don't know how long it is, but I really lucked out. It resonates at
3599 KHz, and is below 4:1 everywhere. There is another resonance at
around 15 MHz.
So it appears to be an 80 meter full wave horizontal loop. It involved
the roof, so I had to go slow. It took about 2 hours to erect.
dave
Joe from Kokomo
> and made the biggest loop I could build. It goes from the far corners of
> the back yard to the left front corner of the house to a support on the
> right side of the house, a kind of truncated rectangle I guess, 15 feet
> or so above my desert oasis. I terminated it with an MFJ-913 4:1 BalUn.
>
> The antenna works great for SWL (can't steer it unfortunately for ham
> radio) and MWDX. It is very quiet re: noise from the neighbors. It also
> fades less. I can get every powerhouse in the West (except POS KFI) at
> night, perfectly. No dimmers buzzing. No plasma TVs. No RV Battery
> chargers.
Thanks for the description of your new antenna...but you have piqued my
curiosity.
I'm glad it works for you, but pardon me, I'm always suspicious of
antenna claims that say it is great for radio signals but does not pick
up noise.
Hey, we are talking about a piece of #14 wire. RF is RF, noise or the
wanted station. I would be curious to see how that plain piece of wire
is smart enough to differentiate between wanted RF (stations) and
unwanted RF (noise).
My theory is as follows...
You said "I can get every *powerhouse* in the West..."
Is it possible that the antenna is not so great? The noise is weaker
than the wanted (strong) signal. In other words, because the antenna is
only fair to poor, the weaker noise is not heard, but your "powerhouse"
stations are strong enough to be heard.
To give an extreme example, a ham friend less than a mile away and I had
a QSO using dummy loads! Needless to say, there was NO noise, but the
signal was enough of a "powerhouse" that we could carry on communications.
Any thoughts????
P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just curious.
dave
I imagine common mode rejection works in the near field (within 50 or 60
feet or so). This would mean all of my house, and most of my either side
neighbors' houses.
I'm listening to XX 1090 Sports, from Rosarito Beach, BC, 100 miles
away, and they are the loudest cleanest signal on the AM band.
Burr
Glad you are DXing and enjoying your time.
Keep posting Pal.
--
Burr
Adventure before Dementia
I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE
"dave" <da...@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:4d69071c$0$5642$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
RHF
- P.S. Not starting a flame war against your antenna. I'm just
curious.
{{-;; Let The Antenna Flame War Begin ! ::-}}
-just-kidding-
Joe from Kokomo,
First it's a Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna and is
considered to be a 'Balanced' Antenna.
The each of local nearby RF/EMF Noise Sources
are Single Points of Noise to the Loop from within
and without.
* A Single Point of Noise that is within the Circle/Area
of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points of the Loop;
and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.
* A Single Point of Noise that is near the outside** the
Circle/Area of the Loop is received {pick-up} on all points
of the Loop; and so is usually reduced/canceled-out.
** Near the Outside within a Distance of one Radius to
one Diameter of the Circumference of the Loop.
Distant RF Signals that are much more Farther Away
from the Loop Antenna {1000 Diameters} are received
as a Single Uniform {In-Phase} Signal; and therefore
NOT usually reduced/canceled-out.
NOTE : Some claim that Local RF/EMF Noise is more
Vertical Polarized than Horizontal -and- Therefore a
Horizontal Loop picks-up less of the Local RF/EMF
Noise as a result of simply being Horizontal - nitt?
PLUS : Most Distance Sky-Wave Signals especially
after a few RF Signal Bounces Off the Atmosphere
are More Horizontal Polarized than they are Vertical
-and- Therefore a Horizontal Loop picks-up More of
these Distance Far-A-Way RF Signals as a result of
simply being Horizontal - nitt?
The Second Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Put More Wire In-the-Air over a Long/Random {Single}
Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire} Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE WIRE IN-THE-AIR
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with a
70 Foot Long Random Wire Antenna across it's
Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot Long Dipole Antenna across
it's Diagonal : A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners
would be 200 Foot around with 3-Times the Wire
In-the-Air to Receive RF Signals.
{~3X High Signal Levels}
The Third Thing that a Loop Antenna does for the
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] is Maximizes the
Utilization of the Available Space they are Using to
Expand the Signal-Capture-Area over a Long/Random
{Single} Wire Antenna or even a Dipole {Two Wire}
Antenna.
~Translation~ MORE SIGNAL CAPTURE AREA
-example- For a 50 Foot by 50 Foot Square with
All Antennas at 25 Feet : A 70 Foot Long Random
Wire Antenna across it's Diagonal -or- a 70 Foot
Long Dipole Antenna across it's Diagonal with :
A Square Loop Antenna at the Corners would be
2500 Foot around with 7~9 Times the Signal Capture
Area to Receive More RF Signals.
Conclusion :
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Lower {Local}
Noise Antenna than the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-a-balance-antenna-versus-unbalanced-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Higher {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-wire-in-the-air-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' More {Distant}
Signal Antenna that the Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-got-more-signal-capture-area-
* The Horizontal Loop Antenna is a 'relatively' Designed
for Sky-Wave RF Signals and does a better job that the
Random/Long Wire Antenna
-it's-does-what-it-is-designed-to-do-
The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
=Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build
that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF
.
.
dave
>
> The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
> Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
> 1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
> 2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
> 3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
> =Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build
> .
> .
>
You have to use ladder line or a BalUn at the feedpoint. It is important
that the antenna be operated fairly "balanced".
dave
>
It also has an advantage of working well without having to be 40 feet in
the air. It doesn't seem to mind being around trees, etc.
Burr
he's proud of it
--
Burr
Big, Lean, Mean and Clean.
I Push Iron and Turn Cranks
I'll be lifting until they pry the
bar from my cold dead hands
Adventure before Dementia
I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE
"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:d6928040-d8fb-4ced...@o14g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
arthr...@webtv.net
> Damn Roy, Don't pick him a part. Let him enjoy his antenna! He built it and
> he's proud of it
> --
> Burr
> Big, Lean, Mean and Clean.
> I Push Iron and Turn Cranks
> I'll be lifting until they pry the
> bar from my cold dead hands
> Adventure before Dementia
>
> I'm a member of The Tea Party, I VOTE
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
A loop antenna is more directional (in general) than a longwire .
That's a very big asset in DF applications .
RHF
> On 02/27/2011 03:28 PM, RHF wrote:
>
>
>
> > The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
> > Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
> > 1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
> > 2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
> > 3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
> > =Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build
> > .
> > .
>
- It is important that the antenna be operated fairly "balanced".
Dave,
That is very true and a Fact I did not state.
~ RHF
.
WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
-may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e484c0a9c8d6a76b
.
RHF
- That's a very big asset in DF applications .
Arthrny,
Yes : Vertical Loop Antennas can be very Directional
-but- Usually they are less than a 1/10th of a Wave
Length long and often make with Multi-Turns.
What we are talking about here is a Large One Wave
Length {or 1/2 WL} Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna
{One 'Single' Turn} that is 'relatively' close to the ground
{Less than a 1/4WL} and uses a Balanced Feed-in-Line.
Generally the more uniform and symmetrical {circular}
the Loop is the more Omni-Directional the Loop Antenna
becomes.
RHF
- - On 02/27/2011 03:28 PM, RHF wrote:
WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
-may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e484c0a9c8d6a76b
.
.
- It also has an advantage of working well without
- having to be 40 feet in the air.
Dave,
I guess two things are happening here -wrt- the Loop
Antenna -versus- Single Straight Random/Long Wire
Antenna :
* The Loop is a 'Balanced' Antenna unto itself; and is
thus less Ground Dependent.
* The Loop Antenna is simply physically larger with :
* * More Wire In-the-Air
* * Covers More Space/Area
.
- It doesn't seem to mind being around trees, etc.
A Full-Wave Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna that is
near/next-to a Tree is still a Very Large 'Balanced'
Antenna.
A 1/4WL & 1/2WL Horizontal [Flat] Straight Wire
Antenna near/next-to a Tree is still a relatively short
Un-Balanced Antenna that potentially is more
un-balanced due to the closeness of the Tree.
~ RHF
.
.
dave
>
>> The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
>> Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
>> 1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
>> 2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
>> 3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
>> =Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build
>>
>> that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF
>> .
>> .- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> A loop antenna is more directional (in general) than a longwire .
> That's a very big asset in DF applications .
A small loop has less than 10% of the wavelength.
A large loop has at least 50% of the wavelength.
Small loops are easily built and when vertically oriented exhibit a very
useful figure 8 pattern. Downside, they need to be turned (and tuned). I
can't put one inside my lath and plaster house. I don't have an antenna
rotator.
My large horizontal loop requires no aiming nor tuning. It is for SWL
and amateur receiving only. Set it and forget it. QRM was the main
problem. It is 95% solved. I never (never) hear light switches (which
cause huge explosions on my ham radio) or the oscillators in my analog
TV; and like that there.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Horiz. sweep circuits in the CRT based units are extremely rich in
harmonics . You must have built an extremely successful product . Any
details/schematic available ?
RHF
> On 02/27/2011 09:30 PM, arthrny...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> The Two Things That The Random/Long Wire Antenna
> >> Has Over The Horizontal Loop Antenna :
> >> 1 - Half the Materials {Fewer Things}
> >> 2 - Half the Work {Less To Do}
> >> 3 - Easier to Locate/Site and Erect {Easy to Do}
> >> =Conclusion= Easier/Simpler To Build
>
> >> that's my 'relative' opinion - iane ~ RHF
> >> .
> >> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > A loop antenna is more directional (in general) than a longwire .
> > That's a very big asset in DF applications .
>
> A small loop has less than 10% of the wavelength.
>
> A large loop has at least 50% of the wavelength.
>
> Small loops are easily built and when vertically oriented exhibit a very
> useful figure 8 pattern. Downside, they need to be turned (and tuned). I
> can't put one inside my lath and plaster house. I don't have an antenna
> rotator.
Dave : Do like I did as a Kid {with Dad's Help :-}
Put a One Metre Loop on a Wooden Pole stuck in a
Metal Pole and use and old fan-belt out the Window
to Turn it as needed. -no-rotor-required- ~ RHF
Hula-Hoop {Door-Bell Wire} to TV Twin Lead
to Tuning Capacitor to Radio Terminals
.
dave
Length feet = 1005/frequency of interest
Make area inside the loop as large as possible. Get it up in the air
(although under the eaves will work if you don't have a lot of metal
flashing.) It seems to be deaf to most QRM generated in the "near
field", so I have it 3' above my roof, generally in the same shape as
the house, parallel to the ground. I cut the loop and put an MFJ-913 4:1
current BalUn, 'cause that's what I had lying around. For receive you
can get away with a reversed CATV BalUn.
It wants to be balanced. Use ladder line, twinlead, or a BalUn with coax.
This article is only about half bullshit:
RHF
Don't know seems about right to me
http://n1su.com/loop.png
Notice that he does not feed the Loop :
At a Corner or in the
Middle of the Side :
Sort of Off-Set... like a Windom
Getting the Wire Up 40 Feet in the Air at all 4
Corners would be a challenge for most SWLs.
~ RHF
.
bpnjensen
> Getting the Wire Up 40 Feet in the Air at all 4
> Corners would be a challenge for most SWLs.
>
> ~ RHF
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Be pretty hard on a typical suburban lot, that's for sure.
RHF
SkyWires · SkyWire Loop Antennas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkyWires/
.
RHF
Especially with a Square 160M Loop Antenna
that is 136 Feet per side. ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
Doable on most City/Suburban Lots is a 10 MHz [WWV]
Sky-Wire Loop Antenna that is 25 Feet per Side at 12.5
to 25 Feet High -or- a 31m SW Band @ 9400 kHz is 27
Feet per Side at 13.5 to 27 Feet High.
.
The "Skywire" Loop Antenna
http://srgproperties.inetusanow.net/files_custom/9467_2192.pdf
.
dave
There's your "bullshit" part right there. You only need it high if you
want to use it as a top loaded vertical on lower bands. This is "ham
radio" stuff. For SWL just get it as up and in the clear as you can.
dave
> .
> The "Skywire" Loop Antenna
> http://srgproperties.inetusanow.net/files_custom/9467_2192.pdf
> .
That article is way obsolete. Ladder line or a BalUn is mandatory.
Antenna must be balanced.
RHF
> On 03/01/2011 02:20 PM, RHF wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 1, 5:58 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> >> This article is only about half bullshit:
>
> >>http://n1su.com/loop.html
>
> > Don't know seems about right to me
> >http://n1su.com/loop.png
> > Notice that he does not feed the Loop :
> > At a Corner or in the
> > Middle of the Side :
> > Sort of Off-Set... like a Windom
- - Getting the Wire Up 40 Feet in the Air at all 4
- - Corners would be a challenge for most SWLs.
- There's your "bullshit" part right there.
Dave more than just "N1SU" cite using a 160 Meter
Band Full Wave Loop Antenna of 574 Feet Rigged
at a Height of 40 Feet.
1005 / 1.750 = 574 Feet
1/4th Wave Length = 144 Feet High
1/8th Wave Length = 72 Feet High
-and- 1/10th Wave Length = 57 Feet
-so- 40 Feet High would be <1/10th WL for NVIS Operation
.
- You only need it high if you want to use it as a
- top loaded vertical on lower bands.
Dave "NAH" -cause- It is Cut for the 160 Meter Band
{Lowest Band} and Functions there as a Full Wave
Loop Antenna of 574 Feet Rigged at 40 Feet.
-now- If it was cut for the 31 Meter SW Band @
9400 kHz and was 27 Feet per Side at 13.5 to
27 Feet High -then- You might use it as a "top
loaded vertical on lower bands".
- This is "ham radio" stuff.
Dave -nah- Just Radio and Antenna "STUFF"
- For SWL just get it as up and in the clear as you can.
Dave -yes- Most Shortwave Radio Listeners [SWLs]
will take more practical and simpler approaches then
Amateur {Ham} Radio Operator who have to put RF
Power into their Antennas and have to have Antennas
that will Radiate RF Energy very well.
Two SWL "Sky-Wire" Loop Antennas
My Simple and Practical recommendations for a
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] would be :
* Small Lot a 31 Meter SW Band Full Wave Loop
Antenna {9400 kHz} with 27 Feet per Side and Rigged
at least 13.5 up to 27 Feet High. {108 Feet of Wire}
* Bigger Lot a 49 Meter SW Band Full Wave Loop
Antenna {5900 kHz} with 43 Feet per Side and Rigged
at least 21.3 up to 43 Feet High. {172 Feet of Wire}
Steve
bpnjensen
> I'm glad your antenna is fair and balanced.
...or bare and phalanxed...your choice ;-)
RHF
Fair Winds and Following Seas M8E ~ RHF
.
.
WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
-may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e484c0a9c8d6a76b
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/de4e20ee52eca882
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1164d8f56b095462
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b3748ccde50ae9ee
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/17ce370755a7b55c
.
Two SWL "Sky-Wire" Loop Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/36de8fe4fd4eac26
.
.
dave
> On Mar 2, 9:56 am, Steve<sdanie...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> - I'm glad your antenna is fair and balanced.
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas M8E ~ RHF
> .
> .
> WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
> -may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
It works better than the 70' random wire, which used the same space. I
can listen to Mike Brown on KOA now. The HFBC is still annoying for the
most part. I like the eschatologist on 9980.
WWV/WWVH still my favorites, and have been for almost 50 years.
Brenda Ann
"dave" wrote in message
news:4d6ef5a1$0$5653$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
WWV/WWVH still my favorites, and have been for almost 50 years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And even those have changed format several times over the decades. Remember
when they used to ID in Morse? I can hear WWVH on occasion on 5, 10 and 15
MHz, fighting with a Chinese frequency standard station (used to think it
was JJY) WWVH is pretty easy to identify in the mess, though, since the
Chinese station only has the tick-tick-tick, whereas there is other
modulation, including the ID and weather that is easy to copy over the
ticks.
RHF
> On 03/02/2011 04:36 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > On Mar 2, 9:56 am, Steve<sdanie...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> > - I'm glad your antenna is fair and balanced.
>
> > Fair Winds and Following Seas M8E ~ RHF
> > .
> > .
> > WHY ? The Horizontal Loop Antenna
> > -may-be- The Better Over-All SWL Antenna !
- It works better than the 70' random wire,
- which used the same space.
Dave : Egg-Zak-Lee !
In the same Square Space :
The Longest Random/ Long Wire Antenna is
a Diagonal = 1.414
Where as a Wire [Perimeter] 'Loop' Antenna
is an all around Square {Loop} = 4.000
Which is 2.829 Times the Wire in the Air :
All Other Things Being =Equal=
~translation~
More Signal {More Wire In-the-Air}
Same/Less Noise {Balanced Antenna}
-result- Over-All Better S/N Ratio
iane ~ RHF
.
.
dave
> - It works better than the 70' random wire,
> - which used the same space.
>
> Dave : Egg-Zak-Lee !
>
> In the same Square Space :
>
> The Longest Random/ Long Wire Antenna is
> a Diagonal = 1.414
>
> Where as a Wire [Perimeter] 'Loop' Antenna
> is an all around Square {Loop} = 4.000
>
> Which is 2.829 Times the Wire in the Air :
> All Other Things Being =Equal=
>
The space being 10' above the ground from the back wall of my yard to
the front of my house (I don't build antennas in the front of the
house). I am using the same fiberglass pole at one corner, and the same
treated 2 by 2 pole at the opposite corner that defined the random wire.
I have added another pair of corners.