delta400: "best" developer?
Gianni Rondinini
i shot some rolls of delta400 120 in south west national parks during
my last trip there with my wife. i couldn't shot slower film for a
number of reasons, i'm sorry.
i'd love to be able to make some very large prints, up to 20x24"
--well, for me it's *very* large: i've never gone any larger than
8x10"-- and i'm trying to understand what's the best developer i can
use for my films.
i suppose i'll have no contrast problems because landscapes were quite
contrasty and i used some coloured filters to have even higher
contrast.
i usually develop my deltas in rodinal 1+50 --as from digitaltruth--,
but have in stock also some d76, tmax and xtol. i wouldn't want to use
anything else because i'm not very good in preparing my own chemicals
at home and i'm not able to find easily other developers here in
italy.
the idea is to get the thinnest grain possible to be able to enlarge
that much without getting baseball-sized grain for such subjects :)
--i like thick grain for jazz concerts, but this is different--.
any suggestion is appreciated.
regards,
--
Gianni Rondinini (30, tanti, RA)
VBR - Vero Birro Romagnolo
Hai capito, scelf?
Some Dude
I believe if you attempt to blow up delta 400 to 20x24" you are going
to see considerable grain no matter how you develop the film.
UC
Jordan W.
Xtol or D76 would certainly give you good results, though 20x24"
from 120 format is a stretch. The key thing is to test (with a
non-critical roll of film) your development time before committing
your valuable vacation photos to a developer you haven't used before.
LR Kalajainen
your development time correct.
Xtol will give very fine grain and good sharpness, and should give you
adequate results for 20X24 prints. I've done 16X20 blowups of Delta 400
from a 120 neg, and gotten very fine-grained results. Rodinal will not
give you fine-grained results, and even D-76 1:1 will be grainer than
Xtol or one of the other Phenidone/Ascorbic acid developers.
Gianni Rondinini
thanks to everybody for your suggestions.
Dennis O'Connor
the Massive Development Chart.... 1+2 or 1+3 is probably going to be your
choice...
denny
Gregory Blank
Delta 400 takes the PMK stain really well for a modern emulsion film,
but unfortunately is NLA in sheet films.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
Thor Lancelot Simon
Gregory Blank <greg@greg_____photo.com> wrote:
>In article <2soPe.6498$WO2....@fe06.lga>,
> "Dennis O'Connor" <k8...@mailblocks.com> wrote:
>
>> My vote is the XTOL... Shoot a test roll, clip and try the dilutions from
>> the Massive Development Chart.... 1+2 or 1+3 is probably going to be your
>> choice...
>>
>> denny
>
>Delta 400 takes the PMK stain really well for a modern emulsion film,
>but unfortunately is NLA in sheet films.
For some version of "unfortunately". If I want 200 speed sheet film, I
know where to buy it, and the "400" printed on the box was always kinda
offensive to me.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky
Gregory Blank
t...@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) wrote:
> >Delta 400 takes the PMK stain really well for a modern emulsion film,
> >but unfortunately is NLA in sheet films.
>
> For some version of "unfortunately". If I want 200 speed sheet film, I
> know where to buy it, and the "400" printed on the box was always kinda
> offensive to me.
I got 320 out of it.
UC
Mike King
Grain is very much inherent in film, a 400 tablet grain film is pretty fine
grain so use a standard developer, so called fine grain developers will
deliver less grain but usually sacrifice acutance or film speed or BOTH to
get there and if the film is already exposed at EI 400 you can't adjust
exposure to compensate for the lower EI delivered by the fine grain soup.
--
darkroommike
----------
"Gianni Rondinini" <bugb...@icem.it> wrote in message
news:pf7pg1tjahotitsp4...@4ax.com...
Nicholas O. Lindan
> delta400 120 ... very large prints, up to 20x24"
> ... rodinal ... d76, tmax [or] xtol [?]
> to get the [finest] grain possible
Xtol. Make sure it still works by developing a scrap
piece of film -- Xtol is known to go suddenly bad without
any warning or color change.
For the _finest_ grain use Microdol-X.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
LR Kalajainen
fine-grain home-brew formula consisting of 1 tsp. sodium metaborate, 1/2
tsp. ascorbic acid (Vit. C crystals) and 4 ml of a 1% Phenidone solution
for 6:45 at 70F. I get both fine grain and high acutance. I rate my
D-400 at IS0 200, but that's not due to my choice of developer. I also
rated it at 200 for HC-110B which I used for years before switching to
my current fine-grain soup. I still get the same sharp, well-exposed
negs, but much finer grain than HC-110. Most Phenidone developers do
not need sulfite if they have ascorbate or ascorbic acid as the
superadditive to the Phenidone. It's sulfite that softens grain edges
so that the film does not appear as sharp. If the film is exposed at
400, no great harm done: that may be the correct rating for the
particular lens/camera/light meter combo, or it may be salvaged by
increasing normal development time by about 20%. At least the negs
should be printable.
Gianni Rondinini
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>"It ain't necessarily so. . ." I use Delta 400 and develop in a
>fine-grain home-brew formula consisting of 1 tsp. sodium metaborate, 1/2
>tsp. ascorbic acid (Vit. C crystals) and 4 ml of a 1% Phenidone solution
>for 6:45 at 70F. I get both fine grain and high acutance. I rate my
can i please ask you how much is a "tsp"?
in grams, if possible.
i have tons of "prime" chemicals at home --i got them from the
professional that sold me his darkroom-- and may think about trying
your "brew".
UC
I doubt seriously whether any other product will give you better
overall results.
Rod Smith
Gianni Rondinini <bugb...@icem.it> writes:
>
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:35:47 -0400, LR Kalajainen
> <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>
>>"It ain't necessarily so. . ." I use Delta 400 and develop in a
>>fine-grain home-brew formula consisting of 1 tsp. sodium metaborate, 1/2
>>tsp. ascorbic acid (Vit. C crystals) and 4 ml of a 1% Phenidone solution
>>for 6:45 at 70F. I get both fine grain and high acutance. I rate my
>
> can i please ask you how much is a "tsp"?
> in grams, if possible.
tsp = teaspoon. That's a measure of volume, equal to 4.93 ml (or 4.93 cc).
The mass in grams varies with the substance, and perhaps with how finely
packed or well ground it is. Anchell's _The Darkroom Cookbook_ lists
sodium metaborate as being 4.6g per teaspoon, but he's got no figure for
ascorbic acid. I believe this is for US teaspoons; I'm not positive, but I
think that British teaspoons are a bit different.
FWIW, Kalajainen's developer is pretty similar to some of Patrick Gainer's
developers. Some of his earliest phenidone/vitamin C ("PC") developers are
described at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html. PC-TEA and
PC-Glycol are also very simple but I don't know of a Web page devoted to
them. (They were described in the March/April 2004 issue of Photo
Techniques Magazine.)
PC-Glycol
---------
Stock A
-------
ascorbic acid 10g
phenidone 0.25g
propylene glycol to make 100ml
Stock B
-------
sodium carbonate, anhydrous 15g
water to make 1l
Propylene glycol is the main ingredient in "eco-friendly" car anti-freeze,
and you can use that if you like, but you might want to boil off some
water first, which will stink up your work area. You've got to heat it to
about 80C to dissolve the ascorbic acid and phenidone. You can experiment
with other stock B solutions if you like, and using sodium metaborate
would produce something very much like Kalajainen's developer. The two
stock solutions are mixed with water (about 1:1:50) at time of use. The
claim is that dissolving the phenidone in propylene glycol and keeping the
sodium carbonate in a separate solution results in very long storage life.
PC-TEA
------
ascorbic acid 9g
phenidone 0.25g
TEA to make 100ml
TEA is triethanolamine. In concentrated form, it serves as a preservative
(much like propylene glycol), but when mixed with water, it functions as
an activator (like sodium carbonate or sodium metaborate). TEA is quite
viscous, and in fact it freezes at about 20C. You must heat it to about
80C to dissolve the ascorbic acid and phenidone.
Personally, I've used PC-Glycol but not (yet) PC-TEA. PC-Glycol works well
for me, but sometimes the base+fog levels are a tad high. I've seen
suggestions that adding about 0.2g of potassium bromide may help on that
score, but I've not yet experimented with this.
--
Rod Smith, rods...@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
LR Kalajainen
a teaspoon. 'Tbs" stands for tablespoon, which equals 3 teaspoons.
This is just a convenient volumetric equivalent for grams. Since photo
developers are very forgiving creatures, very precise measurements are
not necessary. "Close enough for government work" is a common
expression used here for an approximation that works well.
So, keeping that motto in mind, 1 tsp. sodium metaborate = 5 grams.
1/2 tsp. ascorbic acid = 4 grams.
I make the 1% Phenidone solution by dissolving 1 gram Phenidone in 100
ml. 90% isopropyl alcohol. The stock solution will keep about a year at
normal room temperature. There are some who insist that propylene
glycol is preferable to alcohol, but I haven't had a problem with the
alcohol solution at all. 100ml is plenty to keep me going for about
4-6 months of shooting, and then it's a very simple matter to mix up
another batch.
John
wrote:
>For the _finest_ grain use Microdol-X.
And the highest resolution, use 1:1.
JD
John
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>Most Phenidone developers do
>not need sulfite if they have ascorbate or ascorbic acid as the
>superadditive to the Phenidone.
I'm sure that in fact they do. Not for the sake of the Phenidone which
will oxidize eventually but rather for the ascorbate which oxidizes
very quickly as seen in the numerous failures of Xtol and other
ascorbate developers.
> It's sulfite that softens grain edges
>so that the film does not appear as sharp.
But of course the image is in fact sharper than those made with
low-sulfite developers as the grain defining the image edge is finer.
Also grain migration is less of an issue and most will agree that
higher sulfite developers such as D23 will deliver better highlight
detail than low-sulfite, high accutance developpers such as FX1.
JD
Photography - www.puresilver.org - www.darkroompro.com
Motorcycles - www.xs750.net Music - www.picknparlor.net
LR Kalajainen
pretty conclusively established that sulfite is unnecessary and makes no
discernible difference in such formulas. It may be true that ascorbate
oxidizes quickly, but I use ascorbic acid (plain old Vitamin C crystals
from the health food store) and I've never had a problem with
oxidation. Of course, I mix the developer fresh for each use and use it
as a one-shot. I can't speak to how well it stores, because I don't
work that way. With only three ingredients, mixing it fresh each time
takes no more effort or time than measuring and diluting concentrated
stock solutions.
As for highlight detail, I get a very long tonal scale with very
delicate highlight detail and richly detailed shadows from my soup.
Stefano Bramato
> any suggestion is appreciated.
>
> regards,
HC110
or PAtton's E76
Altrimenti:
Xtol 1:1 -super
Ciao,
Stefano Bramato
--
ed io imparo...
Rod Smith
LR Kalajainen <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> writes:
>
> Pat Gainer's experimentation with Phenidone/Vitamin C formulas have
> pretty conclusively established that sulfite is unnecessary and makes no
> discernible difference in such formulas.
I read John's comments as concerning the necessity of sulfite for
long-term storage of solutions, not the image quality of the negatives
developed with them.
> It may be true that ascorbate
> oxidizes quickly, but I use ascorbic acid (plain old Vitamin C crystals
> from the health food store) and I've never had a problem with
> oxidation. Of course, I mix the developer fresh for each use and use it
> as a one-shot. I can't speak to how well it stores, because I don't
> work that way.
Gainer has also experimented with non-aqueous solutions, using ethylene
glycol, propylene glycol, and triethanolamine (TEA) instead of water.
These seem to work pretty well for long-term storage, even without sodium
sulfite. I made some PC-Glycol four months ago and it's still good. I
posted the formula in an earlier message in this thread. If anybody's
interested but missed it, here's the Google Groups copy of it:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.darkroom/msg/d8cb974905671b19
LR Kalajainen
tried the glycol and it works as well as you suggest.
However, since I rarely develop more than 2-4 rolls at a time, mixing a
liter of developer from scratch takes less than two minutes if I use a
1%stock solution of Phenidone dissolved in 90% alcohol instead of the
powdered Phenidone. Some say that the alcohol stock doesn't hold its
potency long, but I've kept it for more than six months without noticing
any difference in my negs. And the alcohol is cheap and much easier to
procure than glycol. I mix it in 1000 ml batches which is enough to
process about 25 rolls as a one-shot.
So measuring and mixing two liquid solutions (PC glycol and the
dissolved alkaline) is really no quicker for me than measuring a tsp. of
metaborate or carbonate, a half teaspoon of ascorbic acid, and a 4ml
medicine dropper of Phenidone stock. Just personal preference, not
better or worse.
John
Smith) wrote:
> but sometimes the base+fog levels are a tad high. I've seen
>suggestions that adding about 0.2g of potassium bromide may help on that
>score, but I've not yet experimented with this.
I've been under the impression that bromide doesn't work well with
Phenidone derivatives. Has this been incorrect ?
Also, there is no way anyone can convince me that using a teaspoon is
as consistently accurate as using ANY scale. Spend $11 and buy one of
this digital jewelry scales on Ebay which is accurate to 0.1g.
John
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>So measuring and mixing two liquid solutions (PC glycol and the
>dissolved alkaline) is really no quicker for me than measuring a tsp. of
>metaborate or carbonate, a half teaspoon of ascorbic acid, and a 4ml
>medicine dropper of Phenidone stock. Just personal preference, not
>better or worse.
I agree on the measuring but I think I'll stick with D-23. It might be
nice to have liquid concentrates of the more complex formulas
available but D-23 works for me.
John
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>ohn wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:35:47 -0400, LR Kalajainen
>><lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>>
>Pat Gainer's experimentation with Phenidone/Vitamin C formulas have
>pretty conclusively established that sulfite is unnecessary and makes no
>discernible difference in such formulas. It may be true that ascorbate
>oxidizes quickly, but I use ascorbic acid (plain old Vitamin C crystals
>from the health food store) and I've never had a problem with
>oxidation. Of course, I mix the developer fresh for each use and use it
>as a one-shot. I can't speak to how well it stores, because I don't
>work that way. With only three ingredients, mixing it fresh each time
>takes no more effort or time than measuring and diluting concentrated
>stock solutions.
I would still recommend mixing in at least a minimal amount of sulfite
to absorb the oxygen in the water and to help stabilize the forumla
during processing. I read somewhere (Meese ?) that any effects of
sulfite were undetectable until about 35g/L
>As for highlight detail, I get a very long tonal scale with very
>delicate highlight detail and richly detailed shadows from my soup.
And granularity and sharpness ? I'd be intersted in seeing a section
of the film scanned at high magnification.
LR Kalajainen
ml batches--not 1000. The latter would be enough to develop 250 rolls
of film and probably wouldn't last long enough for me to shoot that much.
LR Kalajainen
to notice any difference in sharpness between, say, D-23 and my PCM
homebrew. But at greater enlargements, there is a definite gain in
accutance. The grain is smaller with more well-defined edges. This is
due to the lack of sulfite in the quantity that D-23 requires. In
developers with much smaller concentrations of sulfite, the difference
would most likely be much less.
You may be right about sulfite absorbing oxygen in the water; I'm not
enough of a bathroom chemist to know. But what advantage is that in a
developer that one is mixing fresh each time and using as a one-shot.?
Oxidation is not a factor .
Rod Smith
John <j...@xs750.net> writes:
>
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:41:32 -0000, rods...@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod
> Smith) wrote:
>
>> but sometimes the base+fog levels are a tad high. I've seen
>>suggestions that adding about 0.2g of potassium bromide may help on that
>>score, but I've not yet experimented with this.
>
> I've been under the impression that bromide doesn't work well with
> Phenidone derivatives. Has this been incorrect ?
I'd not heard that before, and as I wrote in my original post, I have no
personal experience with adding potassium bromide to PC-Glycol, so I can't
comment on this from my own experience. I was just passing on a tip I'd
heard.
> Also, there is no way anyone can convince me that using a teaspoon is
> as consistently accurate as using ANY scale. Spend $11 and buy one of
> this digital jewelry scales on Ebay which is accurate to 0.1g.
A good case can be made for teaspoon (or other volumetric) measurements,
at least for some ingredients. Some chemicals absorb water from the air
and so change in mass over time. The volume of at least many of these
chemicals doesn't change as much as the mass when this happens. When
measuring these chemicals, therefore, a volumetric measure may be superior
to a measure of mass, particularly when they've been stored for a long
time and/or in containers that are permeable to air and the water it
contains.
Personally, though, I'm not a big advocate of volumetric measures for
photo chemistry, simply because most (but not all) formulas are presented
with measures of solid ingredients in terms of mass. That means you'd need
to refer to conversion tables, which might not even have all the entries
you'd need to do whatever formula you want to make. The conversion will
also require some rounding.
Rod Smith
John <j...@xs750.net> writes:
>
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:46:07 -0400, LR Kalajainen
> <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>
>>Pat Gainer's experimentation with Phenidone/Vitamin C formulas have
>>pretty conclusively established that sulfite is unnecessary and makes no
>>discernible difference in such formulas.
>
> to absorb the oxygen in the water and to help stabilize the forumla
> during processing. I read somewhere (Meese ?) that any effects of
> sulfite were undetectable until about 35g/L
Gainer's recent formulas use glycols or other non-aqueous solvents rather
than water, so using sulfite as a way of absorbing oxygen in water is
unimportant -- at least, from the long-term storage perspective.
Kalajainen says he mixes his immediately before use, so again, long-term
storage isn't an issue.
>>As for highlight detail, I get a very long tonal scale with very
>>delicate highlight detail and richly detailed shadows from my soup.
>
> And granularity and sharpness ? I'd be intersted in seeing a section
> of the film scanned at high magnification.
You might want to order copies of the May/June 2002 and March/April 2004
issues of _Photo Techniques_ magazine. (You can do so at
http://www.phototechmag.com. Unfortunately, the articles aren't available
online, AFAIK.) These issues include articles by Pat Gainer relating some
of his experiments with vitamin C developers. The May/June 2002 issue, in
particular, includes a close-up comparison of identical exposures
developed in Rodinal, D-23, and something that's similar to Kalajainen's
developer that Gainer calls "PCK." The D-23 and PCK close-ups are
virtually indistinguishable in terms of acutance and grain size, at least
to my eye. The difference between both of these and Rodinal is quite
clear. The March/April 2004 issue includes full descriptions of PC-Glycol
(not under that name; the name seems to have been coined on the Internet),
PC-TEA, and a few others, including a description of a longevity "torture
test" in which a 4mm-deep pool of PC-Glycol "A" solution was left exposed
to open air for 16 days and retained full activity.
John
Smith) wrote:
>In article <imb8i110bcq4lbc33...@4ax.com>,
> John <j...@xs750.net> writes:
>>
>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:46:07 -0400, LR Kalajainen
>> <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Pat Gainer's experimentation with Phenidone/Vitamin C formulas have
>>>pretty conclusively established that sulfite is unnecessary and makes no
>>>discernible difference in such formulas.
>>
>> I would still recommend mixing in at least a minimal amount of sulfite
>> to absorb the oxygen in the water and to help stabilize the forumla
>> during processing. I read somewhere (Meese ?) that any effects of
>> sulfite were undetectable until about 35g/L
>
>Gainer's recent formulas use glycols or other non-aqueous solvents rather
>than water, so using sulfite as a way of absorbing oxygen in water is
>unimportant -- at least, from the long-term storage perspective.
>Kalajainen says he mixes his immediately before use, so again, long-term
>storage isn't an issue.
Generally I agree however my experiences with Xtol leave me very
suspisious of the stability of ascorbates. Unfortunately I'm old
enough to remember when we were told that OJ had to be consumed within
3 days from date of delivery or it woudn't have any Vit C left as it
all oxidized.
>>>As for highlight detail, I get a very long tonal scale with very
>>>delicate highlight detail and richly detailed shadows from my soup.
>>
>> And granularity and sharpness ? I'd be intersted in seeing a section
>> of the film scanned at high magnification.
>
>You might want to order copies of the May/June 2002 and March/April 2004
>issues of _Photo Techniques_ magazine. (You can do so at
>http://www.phototechmag.com. Unfortunately, the articles aren't available
>online, AFAIK.) These issues include articles by Pat Gainer relating some
>of his experiments with vitamin C developers. The May/June 2002 issue, in
>particular, includes a close-up comparison of identical exposures
>developed in Rodinal, D-23, and something that's similar to Kalajainen's
>developer that Gainer calls "PCK." The D-23 and PCK close-ups are
>virtually indistinguishable in terms of acutance and grain size, at least
>to my eye. The difference between both of these and Rodinal is quite
>clear. The March/April 2004 issue includes full descriptions of PC-Glycol
>(not under that name; the name seems to have been coined on the Internet),
>PC-TEA, and a few others, including a description of a longevity "torture
>test" in which a 4mm-deep pool of PC-Glycol "A" solution was left exposed
>to open air for 16 days and retained full activity.
Thanks for the detailed info. I have those issues somewhere. I'll have
to dig them out. Unfortunately it will take some time as we have
guests coming in for the necxt month.
JD
Gianni Rondinini
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>Glad to. "tsp." is an abbreviation of the American kitchen measurement,
>a teaspoon. 'Tbs" stands for tablespoon, which equals 3 teaspoons.
[...]
thanks to everybody for the explanations :)
LR Kalajainen
chemicals for photochemistry. All I can say is that ever since I got a
copy of Henry Horenstein's conversion chart about 20 years ago for the
most common darkroom chemicals, I've gone the teaspoon route. I can say
with absolute assurance that I've never had a bad result due to the use
of the volumetric measuring system. Pat Gainer is fond of saying that
the useful criteria for most common darkroom chemical processes is
"close enough for government work." I agree wholeheartedly, and have
both the negs and the prints to prove it. And it's just much quicker
and easier than the metric/weight system. The slight differences
between volumetric and balance scale just don't figure in any process
I've ever used. So I chose the easier way.
Peter Chant
> Glad to. "tsp." is an abbreviation of the American kitchen measurement,
> a teaspoon. 'Tbs" stands for tablespoon, which equals 3 teaspoons.
Since its in common use in the UK then I would not assume it is solely
American. However, this does cause the question to be asked, US or
Imperial teaspoons.
Me? I prefer nano-bushels.
Pete
LR Kalajainen
teaspoons rather than the Imperial. Of course there are many who would
argue that anything in the US has an imperial flavor about it. :-)
Larry
Nicholas O. Lindan
> we Parisians ... argue that anything in the US has
> an imperial flavor about it. :-)
Ah, how the memory of Napoleon and the French colonial empire(s)
fade.
_Every_ nation has a history of screwing and being
screwed, and in France a history of screwing itself.
Just to appreciate the size of the thing, the French colonial
empires consists and consisted of:
North America: Canada (most of eastern and central Canada)
North America: US (entire basin of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, Great
Lakes)
Saint-Pierre and Miquelon [present colony]
Laos
Vietnam
Cambodia
Morocco
Algeria
Tunisia
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Central African Republic
Chad
Republic of the Congo
Gabon
Guinea
Ivory Coast
Mali
Mauritania
Niger
Senegal
Togo
French Guyana [present colony]
Djibouti
Yemen (Cheik-Saďd peninsula)
Lebanon
Syria
Turkey - Hatay province
Iraq - northern oil fields
Numerous islands all over the world
Just in the Caribbean:
Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Haiti
Martinique [present colony]
Montserrat
Saint Martin, north [present colony]
Saint-Barthélemy [present colony]
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Saint Eustatius
Saint Kitts
Saint Croix
Tobago
And many more ...
America has a lot of catching up to do.
Peter Chant
> _Every_ nation has a history of screwing and being
> screwed, and in France a history of screwing itself.
>
> Just to appreciate the size of the thing, the French colonial
> empires consists and consisted of:
Indeed, and for the Brits remeber 'the sun never sets on the British
Empire'. It would have been easier to invade Finland, then it would still
be true for part of the year for a lot less effort.
It is worth noting the French list. I wonder how different it would have
been if we had not been fighting with the French when we both had our
Empires at their heights?
Superpowers come, superpowers go...
LR Kalajainen
for a decade, I don't think I could have come up with all that, though I
was aware that the Departement des Territoires d'Outre-Mer (dealing with
those bits of the world that are still considered France--not French
colonies, but actually France, e.g. Tahiti, etc.), was still an
important government department.
And in reply to Peter's reminder of the sun never setting on the British
empire, I have a Canadian friend who used to say that the reason his
family (Tories in Boston during the Revolution) moved to Canada was so
they would have a better view of the sun setting on the British empire.
Ah, well, after having sampled the cuisine of both former empires, as
well as our own dear successor to them, I'd still have to vote for
France. As a dear friend of ours in Paris used to opine, "So many
restaurants, so little time, and so small a stomach." We did our best
to sample as many as we could and in ten years barely scratched the
surface of the foie gras.
But I did shoot and develop a lot of Delta 400 in my Gainer rip-off formula.
Larry
Nicholas O. Lindan
> ... the cuisine of both former empires, I'd
> still have to vote for France.
I would say the best restaurants in the world are
French, except when they are in France. In France
the restaurants are all busy copying the British.
Overheard on the London - Edinburgh train:
"Ah it'll be fine to be back and get some
goot food in me. Cold tripe in vinegar, that's
what I want; United Cattle Product's restaurants,
they make the best"
Gregory Blank
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote:
> "LR Kalajainen" <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote
>
> > ... the cuisine of both former empires, I'd
> > still have to vote for France.
>
> I would say the best restaurants in the world are
> French, except when they are in France. In France
> the restaurants are all busy copying the British.
>
> Overheard on the London - Edinburgh train:
> "Ah it'll be fine to be back and get some
> goot food in me. Cold tripe in vinegar, that's
> what I want; United Cattle Product's restaurants,
> they make the best"
Your full of tripe :-)
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
LR Kalajainen
spicy tripe sausages that most Americans shy away from in principle, but
which the French know are delicious.
Gregory Blank wrote:
>In article <dZjWe.12801$FW1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "Nicholas O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>"LR Kalajainen" <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote
>>
>>
>>
Gregory Blank
LR Kalajainen <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
> You may be right. I have eaten my fair share of andouillettes, those
> spicy tripe sausages that most Americans shy away from in principle, but
> which the French know are delicious.
Personally I like sausage and bacon, but drastically limit the amount
I consume because I wish to remain healthy. I might eat one or the other
two times a year.
John
<lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote:
>You may be right. I have eaten my fair share of andouillettes, those
>spicy tripe sausages that most Americans shy away from in principle, but
>which the French know are delicious.
I once made a pot of chili seasoned with pounds of andouille. It had
to be the best damn chili I have ever made. Added a pint of Tennessee
sourgham, a cup of cayenne, onions, bell pappers, 3 different types of
beans and split a pint of Jack with the kettle just to make it legit
Tennessee chili. Believe me, nNobody on the top floor of my company
complained one bit.
John
wrote:
>"LR Kalajainen" <lrkala...@suscom-maine.net> wrote
>
>> ... the cuisine of both former empires, I'd
>> still have to vote for France.
>
>I would say the best restaurants in the world are
>French, except when they are in France.
Italy. You can't even gain weight on the portions they serve in French
restaraunts here in the states.
JD - Who at one time worked ina 5 Diamond French restaraunt
LR Kalajainen
same as andouillette. The latter is fat (2-inches in diameter), about 6
inches long, and chock full of tripe with a lot of seasoning. The taste
is quite different.
danw...@yahoo.com
the D-76 formula. (Metol, Hydroquinone, sodium sulfite). I find it
gives me high accutance and a very fine grain and I use the standard
D-76 development times. I have had good results at 16 by 20
enlargements. Some are reluctant to use the higher PH sodium carbonate
for fear it will cause bubbles in an acid stop bath but I haven't
experienced any problems. If you want the complete formula e-mail me
at danwilly(NOSPAM)@yahoo.com
Dan Wilson
UC
D-76 is a borax-based devloper, which offers a more buffered
alkalinity. Carbonate would have to used in very small quantities, and
it would not be stable.
LR Kalajainen
2 g. Ascorbic Acid (1/2 tsp)
5 g. Sodium Metaborate (1 tsp; borax will work but will give longer times)
2.5 ml 1% Phenidone stock (dissolved in 90% alcohol)
water to one liter
At 70 F., my time is 6:30. High acutance, extremely fine grain, long
tonal scale.